Machining for Elizabeth / Metal shaper mod Brown & Sharp Update !
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2023
- This week I machine the brake rotors from Johnny Cash, Elizabeth's Crew cab C30 . I also give a update on the Brown and Sharp 6 18 surface grinder and do some changes to my Cincinnati metal shaper.
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/ stevesummers - Наука та технологія
It's always amazing how certain things bring fond memories flooding back.
When I was a tech I cut allot of rotors and drums on the old brake lathes not the fancy ones they have now... But all we used were carbide cutters since no one was going to waste the time to sharpen hss. And for cutting rotors and drums there are big rubber bands with lead chunks in them to dampen out the chatter which I have always wondered why I never see machinists using them because for us they work. If you cut one without it the entire shop knew it and the neighbors down the street... Also brake lathes cut both sides at the same time which is nice as it speeds up the cut and puts equal pressure on both sides of the rotor.
Today most rotors are so cheap that you just replace them but any time you can save a factory rotor you are usually better off as they are generally better quality than the aftermarket. Not always but generally. One of these days I may come across a brake lathe for the shop. Rarely needed but handy.
I rember those rubber and lead bands. Never occured to me why machinists don't use them nowadays.
I remember back in the day when we used to turn rotors and drums. Rusty rotors and drums would kill a cutting insert super fast 🌴👍👍😎🌴
Just a small modification to the shaper is the original feed line put a tap and small hose just long enough to reach into the top of your hand pump to top it up through the lid so you don’t have to worry about topping it up just open the valve while you are running the shaper when you need to 😊
That is a slick idea 😁
42:00 Hi Steve & Elizabeth! My wife & I live in Canada's southern Okanagan Valley in British Columbia, whose climate is rated as semi-arid. We get ~13" rain {or snow equivalent} per year. Without irrigation, our orchard/vineyard agricultural lands would be almost-desert. In summer I'll have a tepid shower to cool off & by the time my hair is towelled dry the rest of my body is dry. Year-round we wash dishes by hand in the kitchen sink, rinse them & set them in the drying rack. A few minutes later we can return them, fully dry, to the cupboard. No dishtowels needed! Many, many thanks for your informative videos!
Sounds dry 😁. Here it's the opposite most the time. Everything stays damp . It's hard to cool off when it's humid.
Lol, that’s it put her to work, she’s so cute!
good video steve and elizabeth
OMG! I was thinking how the sound of the brake rotor turning brought back memories of the years I worked in tire and brake shop when you mentioned the memories it brought to you. The mind works in strange ways sometimes.
We had a big thing rubber strap we would wrap around the drum (or disc) to stop the chatter during turning.
Good morning from a beautifully sunny Dorset 😘
Good morning from a hot and sunny Lincolnshire 🙂
Hi Steve, that was an excellent video with plenty of topics. Here’s the reason your shop feels cooler with just the dehumidifier. When the air gets saturated with moisture ie high humidity, then moisture can’t evaporate into that already moist air, this includes the sweat on your skin, but when you walk into a low humidity environment like your workshop your sweat immediately begins to evaporate and that evaporation drops your skin’s temperature. It also dries your skin and clothes making you a lot more comfortable.
That’s the same reason someone living in the tropics at 100F with 90-100% humidity can’t get their washing dry yet someone living in a cold 40F but 20% humidity can. Also you may not need a dedicated dehumidifier as most portable air conditioners have a dehumidifier setting.
I hope this helps. Cheers, Stuart 🇦🇺
Air conditioners are by nature a dehumidifier
Glad that you got the mag working. Thanks for sharing.
Another hello from Dorset, where the sky is very blue today. 🌅😎
We’re in Child Okeford.
There's not a whole lot of difference between "cooling" air conditioning and dehumidification. As a matter of fact, when Willis Carrier invented the modern 'air conditioner', it wasn't for cooling, but to dehumidify the air inside a print shop where the humidity was ruining the paper. The cooling was a bonus.
Hi Steve, when I ground in mag chucks, I always turned the chuck power on, use flood coolant, 46 grit wheel and, and step over half the wheel width on each pass, taking only a couple tenths off at a time. Nice find!
Nice fix on the shaper , I think the hand pump oiler is a period appropriate addition to that machine and looks excellent. That should satisfy your concern about inadequate oiling.
Glad you got the magnetic chuck working. I really enjoy surface grinding on my Jones and Shipman 540 grinder. I may tear into the hydraulic system and replace which I would guess are the originals from 1969. Great video as per the usual, Steve. Cheers from Florida’s Space coast.
I worked in an Auto Parts store when I was in high school, was taught to run the brake drum lathe, brake rotor lathe and the flywheel surfacer so this definitely brought back some memories
Great video. The reality is the spec they put on a brake rotor is so they can sell brake rotors. If you machine 0.030" off each side that is nearly a 1/16 and your brake pad starts off at around 5/16 thick or more so really there is no problem. But we all know they want to sell brake rotors. Just my opinion of course. Please keep up the great videos they make for an awesome watch.
Great video as always Steve. Always informative, educational and entertaining. God bless you and your family 🙏
Noticed when grinding the magnetic chuck surface that the cut was lighter just before leaving the end and heavier at the start of the return cut. It suggests to me that there is a bit of springiness between the rotor and table. Considering the jerkiness of the table I would inspect the ways before doing anything else.
Sure odd to see rotors still being machined now but as these are part of the casting that holds the wheel bearings they are at least worth trying to clean them up. I am surprised at the lack of vibration. I am sure your dad has the belts with the lead weights on them to quiet them. That tool is the reason why. The neutral or negative rake keeps the tool loaded just right. What a nice newsy post you have for us today. You have made some real wins lately and for the first time in ages your pickup isn't in the shop either. Thanks a bunch and take care eh, ONWARD !
for setting up the wheelbearings i usually put the wheel back on , gives you a little bigger lever so you can feel the endplay / wiggle better
about the electro magnet , to unmagnatize it use ac current it shakes up the metal monecules that are now still alighned , to power it use dc , usually a magnet like that has a pushbutton to bypass the rectifier
Happy Saturday Mornin Steve, Elizabeth, Cora, and Grits! Another great session in keep it simple. HHS tool bit, slow speed, lite cut, does the job. Another simple fact, DC makes magnets work. Manual oiler. KISS, Thanks for the reminder! God Bless
On the grinder, check the diameter of the wheels that trip the lever to reverse the travel. The lever looks to be swinging less in one direction which could mean the valves are not switching fully open and closed. Thank you for all of the awesome content! Please give Cora an extra skritch for me.
Thanks for the education. I like learning something new at least every day. I’m also trying to learn how to use my dividing head . I got straight A’s in school but as you can imagine it’s been some time and I think I‘ve forgotten something, probably my mind. I’m going to see if you have something in your past videos on this. Thanks again .
On DC circuit’ s good connections are essential, was told to me is you have to think net flow of electrons were AC is bouncing back and forth
The smell of my dads work clothes covered in oil Wen he can home. Smells like cutting oil . Brings back the same type of memorys
Great channel Steve, keep up the good work.
I have had a dehumidifier in my shop for quite a few years and it has made a huge difference. Central Illinois gets mighty humid when the sun starts pulling the moisture out of the corn and soybeans in the summer.
Electomagnets can operate AC AND DC. You may look that up. Nonetheless, you did a fantastic job getting the chuck magnet to operate. Bravo!
Thank you for sharing. Very much enjoyed.👍
Nice video. Would still like to see DoAll horizontal bandsaw completed. Thanks for the videos you do.
As a kid back around '78 we had a '71 Plymouth wagon. Passenger side front disk got ground into because of sticky caliper. Took a disk grinder and gave that a "new" surface. I'm sure it was WELL past the minimum thickness. Worked until the car rusted out.
I haven't seen a Hendy lathe in a long time. Their good machines!
Steve, Thanks for sharing your journey on this channel. As a fellow Kentucky machinist down here in Alvaton, I was glad to see your choice of dehumidifier. So, I ordered one just like it, except in green of course.
High humidity decreases the body's ability to control its temperature through evaporative cooling (sweating).
Lower the humidity and you will be cooler even if the air temperature isn't any cooler.
An air conditioner is just a dehumidifier with the extra capacity needed to bring the air temperature lower as well as lower the humidity.
Good Show
FYI. You are opening yourself up to litigation and prosecution if you should get into an accident. The minimum spec is a law. Lawyers search forums and UA-cam. Also, there is a bearing adjustment spec that bearing adjustment is ideal. Check with your bearing mfr. Also, the ringing is common. Wrapping the perimeter of the rotor with a bungee cord can stop the chatter. There is a weighted belt made by brake lathe companies to stop that.
When you get new hubs, knock out the bearing races and put timpkin bearing and races in they come with Chinese ones.
steve - shop looks great - nice and clean and spacious and dry - hope you can brainstorm up some good content over the summer - run some ads and do some side work - ads work
Awesome Video.
Good early afternoon from the UK Cambridgeshire fens!
I think Steve said that he would replace the rotor when it came time to work on the brakes. I wondered if they had something like a torque spec when installing front wheel hubs, I’ve always done it similar to what Steve did in this video.
I always look forward to your videos Steve. Keep up the good work. I thought sure that you would first stone the mag chuck, and then blue it before grinding. Or take it to your surface plate and measure it first. Glad to see it working again. And there is always that old bandsaw project in the weeds.
I forgot to mention that in my comment.
Can't wait to see the Brown & Sharp surface grinder all fixed up and making parts!
Awesome as Always..Really cool content.Thankyou
Surface that truck!! Always well pleased cheers Steve.
Don't neglect the bottom of the mag chuck and it's mounting surface on your new surface grinder. That should be the first thing before grinding in the top.
Workaholic 53 you are so right. He has made a good start though - you have to have a mostly flat top so that when you end up having the top turned upside down on the bed, that you just ground, it's flat, so you can grind the bottom of the chuck properly. Then you clean everything up, reassemble with a bit of anti-seize on all the mating surfaces and dust the top again. The way I used to do it was one drop of anti seize on the mating parts, take the chuck off, wipe the anti seize off of one or another of the surfaces put it back together and see my pattern. Going on from there it's easy. Adding a rheostat inline will allow Steve to have a variable electro magnetic field in the chuck. It is a bit more complicated than I'm letting on and you can also a have a de-gaussing circuit but hey it's his stuff to play with as he sees fit.
Hockey fan! Me too all the way from Australia. That Babrovsky guy is doing alright this season....
Hi Steve, For cast iron you don't need any top rake, in fact a negative rake is recommended. I would have also skimmed the O/D to make sure the balance was ok.
Since switching to keyless chucks the area next to my thumb and finger is all calloused never been the same even after a 40 year career as a mechanic it was never like that got to be from keyless chucks I cant be the only one like this
Like the tap extension tip, great thing to do with all those extra cheap tap holders I've accumulated.
Also, that magnetic chuck wire should not be dragging on the edge of the table.
Maybe some armor, or a spring to support it?
Regarding dehumidifiers, here in Europe pretty much everyone has a split system air conditioner (MrCool was recently featured on various youtubers' channels) and this type of system has a dehumidifier mode which I always use instead of regular cooling mode. It's much more pleasant for me personally.
JFYI, if you ever wanted to make a move on something like that.
You could make a cyllinder with a female taper, and hold the work in it. But tapers need a drawbar to take axial load so this setup would get pretty involved.
But you'd might get away with glueing in the taper in with CA, and then heat it to get it out again.
I've not tried this myself, but I have used CA for other temporary fixtures and work holding tasks, and that has worked well for me as long as I don't do heavy interrupted cuts or other operations that shocks the work piece.
Have you ever thought of building a little articulating jib crane to mount on the wall above the lathe next to the cabinet? Could be real handy when you have these heavier things to mount.
As a old machine I would not worry about the rotor the specific are based on caliper travel and heat per tone. So as long as your not pulling a heavy travel it should be fine. Just my 2 cents
Please remember to remove the chuck from the machine and clean or grind the bed where the chuck mounts. 😉
Nice American made machine / with Chinese oiler
Good stuff
I worked with mag chucks back in the sixties but these were 'Eclipse' permanent magnet chucks, one trick we used to do if we had a piece that didn't want to be ground flat was to put the job on the chuck, turn it on, then turn it back off and let the residual magnetism hold the job down. You have to tickle it off pretty gently but it works. I would be a bit wary of skimming down a brake disc, I always replace them if they're a bit iffy and I'm a cheapskate! Best Wishes from sunny Midsomer Norton.
Yes that chuck table is super rough. It should not be that bad, especially if the previous owner was taking proper care of it! I'm an apprentice and even my hand grinder at work isn't that bad.
I'd say you need to go watch Solid Rock machine shops vids on mounting and grinding a chuck. That chuck might be mounted to tight and warped. Solid rock has the right procedure.
You can wrap rubber strips made from an inner tube to dampen the sound of turning brake rotors. The ones I have seen was 3/4 to 1 inch wide. Thanks for sharing.
You can swap to 3/4 ton hub and rotor and get a dual wheel extension from a 2000's truck.
One thing to consider on the surface grinder is to take the chuck off and grind the table in first. Then the bottom of the chuck and finely the top of the chuck. All that after you get it off the palet and level it out.
You should pull the mag chuck off, grind the underside of the mag chuck, then
reattach mag chuck and grind it in. I think that's what you did on the DoAll surface grinder.
Not a thought in that fluffy head. I love dogs.
I have been running a dehumidifier in my shop for ten years. I run it year round even in conjunction with the air conditioner
My 24" standard cincy must be older than yours. Mine only has oil caps and cups everywhere to shoot oil in. Also doesn't have the universal table. I love any shaper content though!
Wrap a few big rubber bands around the rotor or take some old brake pads and make you a spring loaded ant rattle tool to ride on the rotor to stop the chatter .sounds way better and a better finish.
great video Steve. in my opinion not too long your content will support the longer video but I know that makes a lot more work editing. Anyway good job Thank you for sharing have a great week Hope hope to see you next week. KIMBER
I live on a desert. Of course low humidity feels cooler.
Thank god for inserts 😂
Comment for the algorithm!
man... I know you from somewhere.?. im in lexington..hell, anytime you need a brake lathe,..come by the shop..B&W.. goldrush rd. .. id like to see your machines sometime.?.
Hey Steve I would say that the old rotor’s out of spec are better than the new crap they sell!
I guess you could use a pwm generator with potentiometer to control the strength of the magnetic field in that chuck.
Any parts you need for her truck, Rockauto is you best bet. One of the projects I have in the fire is a custom built Econoline Pickup. I've built my own chassis and I'm using an F350 Dually real axle, and a F53 Motorhome front axle. The front axle has been shorten to get the track width right and I'm still using factory brake rotors. One was too far beyond the limit, so I ordered new ones from Rockauto and these rotors are big but the where reasonably priced. Got new caliper too.
Interesting design on the hubs/rotors you have that they are a 1 piece design. I had a 1986 Chevy 1 ton ramp truck for a while. My front rotor/hubs were a 2 piece design and you could separate the the hub from the rotor.
Hey yeah you're right but I believe since this is a dually it has to be this way even if it's not the rear or drive axle for ease of manufacturing
Shop dawgs are very important
I wonder about the sharp swarf getting in the paw pads. In cutting stainless steel the swarf can be nasty. Just like little kids, there are places and times that they shouldn't be around. When I was 8 or 10 I was in my Dad's shop. Nobody told me not to look at the welder. I've paid for that my entire life.
Wow Steve you are magic! At 12:18 the hub changed direction to clockwise while the rotor continued to turn anti clockwise. Might that be caused by a trans Atlantic drift as your images traverse from the US to Wales in the UK? 🤔
If you want to get fancy and go all machinist on it proper wheel bearing setting spec is .001 to .003” end play
GM all
I have the same hendey lathe
Could it be the ways that are worn in the middle instead of the chuck being worn on the top surface?
I also watch Steve Wattkins channel and he is also working on his friends shaper that has an oiling issue basically same idea just manual feeding the oil
you might have to head on up to Detroit with your buddy's mobile home.
It cracks me up as to how many can never pronounce the Knipex correctly. Think of it as K nip X.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't the grinding wheel to never touch the magnetic chuck at all? Makes one wonder if it wasn't abused. Great video as always, cheers :)
Looking up the brake rotor online shows them at least available and not overly expensive.
Does the magnetic chuck switch go two ways? The way to demagnetize a dc electromagnet is to run reverse current for a second or two. Some systems have it built in and in others it's done manually.
I was just wondering why is Steve posting in the middle of the night but it's after 6 am and I have been up all night. Great video Steve.
With UA-cam, you can upload any time and then set a time for the video to become public. He may or may not have done this.
A good magnetic chuck controller will mostly eliminate that residual magnetism.
Could you set up a mig welder and turn the lathe on slow and weld it solid and then turn it down to over spec a little?
Seems like you could use a Tubal Crane. Sky Hook would be nice, but, you know, cost.
I was looking at that brand of dehumidifier, looks like they have several sizes,can you tell me what size yours is,my shop is similar size to yours..
What style tool holders are you using on lathe ? I have some from very old CNC that look like that. Can not find any more like that.
Wonder if Abom would spray weld that rotor thickness back to specs or no? . . .
Is that the original frame of the c30 ?? It looks so clean that it looks new
I'm surprised you didn't run a dial indicator on the new machined surface of the rotor after you turned it around to cut the back side.