Important thing to remember about drow society, relating to her attitude to him, is that they are heavily matriarchal. A female drow is always above a male drow and if you are a male anything other than a drow, you are even lower. She doesn't just treat him like this because he's a vampire spawn, but because he is a man and a non-drow man.
@@madamefluffy4788 okay chill at the time I didnt know that it was basically the enslavement and exploitation of men. Ik thats fucked. If it was just matriarchal without that it would have been real cool. Its basically just reverse patriarchy not really matriarchy.
You also get an alternative "confession" scene with him thanking you, if you didnt trigger the other one first. It definitely has different vibes, but I like how it plays into the relationship a bunch.
I just saw the other confession on UA-cam, where he talks about his hesitancy with intimacy. I was floored because that did not come up in my play through, and I absolutely love it. I said I was going to wait for my second play through but nah I’m on my astarion run now
I got this confession but I prefer the other one. He sounds so soft in that one. In this scene he almost sounded annoyed that he feels so much for us and it was funny. It's not bad, just different. I prefer the softer one where he talks to you how he had a plan and it didn't go well bc he fell for us. It's so bajsnqoshqkana
i got this confession first and as glad as i am, something about it really irked me the wrong way. Now i cant stop thinking that he's still just lying to me constantly
Astarions whole arc is about consent and this npc definitly defines the relationship whether you romance him or not. To me it establishes whether your co equal partners or just a replacement for Cazador.
I personally think Astarion is the definition of pretty privilege. He had zero respect for consent when it comes to the main character. He tries to bite them without consent and then tries to peer pressure after. If you turn down advances, he laughs and says things like “You know you want me.” If you exchanged his character for a less conventionally attractive man, people would be complaining. It doesn’t technically bother me because he is an evil character. He gives approval when you torture people, rip out their fingernails, slaughter innocents, manipulate, etc. I think people forget that and think he is supposed to be moral on some level. They just ignore these things because he is a sexy, white-haired vampire
@@eeriefeaster1703 it’s also funny how he does all of this and gains approval from that and loves power but the moment you ask him to bite somebody who he technically doesn’t want to he gets mad even though there’s a powerful potion involved I get why but brother you were gonna bite me so suck it up
@@eeriefeaster1703 Here's the point though: It's not just about pretty privilege, and it's not about him being moral in some way either. Astarion isn't a good or moral person, and if he was, he would be a lot less interesting. However, Astarion, when you meet him, has spent 200 years treating others as victims, targets and nothing more, because he had to. He tries to manipulate you into a relationship, because he is terrified that if he doesn't make them love him, he will be discarded like a broken toy the moment he outlives his usefullness. He tries to bite the player character, because he has had his first taste of freedom and finally wants to know what it's like to taste the blood of a person, after being forced to sustain himself on animals and carcasses and even having been starved for a full year after refusing to take one of his victims. The only way Astarion knows to interact with others, when you first meet him, is to manipulate and deceive, even if he has to offer up his own body to do so. He doesn't want to sleep with your character at this point, but feels like he has to, if he wants to make sure they don't drop him. He has no respect for the consent of others, but on the flipside, he doesn't believe his consent matters, either. That's where this scene comes in: For the first time in 200 years, his "no" is respected, encouraged and supported. For the first time since he became a spawn, someone who was in the position to make him do something that would have benefitted them against his will, that person simply accepted that he didn't want to do it and stood by him. Astarion is a bad person, and even if you convince him to stay a spawn and help him heal to the extend that you can, Astarion remains a bad person. But his relationship to consent is born from 200 years of slavery and a lot more complex than just "If he looked worse, people wouldn't let him get away with that."
@@beardiemomThis, and also he's been reduced down to his own looks and sex appeal, being used as bait for Cazador. He's still got a lot of unpacking of his trauma to work through but this is one of the first steps in his seeing he's more than a toy for someone's fantasies, and he matters beyond being the "hot vampire". If he wasn't so beautiful then a large side of his character and story would be lost, with his looks being used to objectify him and hide how deeply hurt he is. Just because he's sexy and plays up the seductive voice, it doesn't mean he really wants sex or enjoys being with someone anymore. Yes he's conventionally attractive, but he's been shown for centuries that's all he's useful for, so actually getting to know him takes seeing past that and accepting him as a person and allowing him to express his own opinions
If you play as a Drow, there is an option telling you that the House of Oblodra was experimenting (or somehing like that) with Mind Flayers and if that could be the reason for her blood smelling rank. It's really awesome, having the race choice influencing the gama like this, giving inside knowledge and such.
@@stars-and-clouds according to the wiki, they did. I think Lolth doesn‘t really care about her followers, more about the chaos and cruelty they can create, even amongst themselves. Thats why drow soceity is really cut-throat.
@@RpGirlRizo I also read that drow player characters get somewhat more mean or evil dialogue options in general (although possibly only if you pick a Lolth-worshipping drow and not those surface-dwelling drow who rejected Lolth worship? idk)
I love how well this scene conveys consent (and how Astarion hasn't had it for most of his life). While he expresses annoyance when you rib him about not wanting to bite her, if you respect his wishes after he explains why he doesn't want to, his approval increases, because you're respecting his agency. I'm someone who didn't get your confession scene, but got the hug scene after this event, and I'm grateful for the creepy vampire fetishizing gal for helping Astarion and my PC to get closer.
If I remember correctly, when you play a drow there's an option that seems to imply that her blood is tainted because her family delt with dark entities (also because she, in general, is a corrupted person)
@@catandrobbyfloreseven more specifically, House Obladra had heavy ties to Illithids and experimenting with them to gain psionic powers. They had vampiric Illithids as pets, and it was rumoured/implied there was some form of crossbreeding between drow and illithids going on in their house, among other things. They made a power play during the Time of Troubles, when having psionic powers gave them a huge advantage when magic/divine powers weren't working correctly. They became the most powerful house in Menzoberranzan, but Lloth made a deal with a Balor named Errtu to wipe out the houses that weren't faithful to her, including Obladra. Which is why she talks about being exiled and in hiding, and finding a new purpose/freedom with The Absolute.
Honestly I chose the "No means no" option straight from the beginning cause my character didn't care why he didnt want to, just that he didn't want to. And that was fine with them. I think the reason something is wrong with her blood is that she probably did a lot if blood magic/alchemy to herself, altering it unnaturally.
I'd like to see a possibility added for Tav to ask Astarion after the fact, in private, why he didn't want to drink her blood. Just to be able to go straight for the "no means no" without missing out on information.
@@trishapellis I was able to ask him in private after the fact. He told me she didn't smell right. Plus he does pull you to the side when you ask him in the cutscene with Araj.
I am really surprised at the amount of people who are okay with forcing him to do this and don't realize it's a big deal. Maybe we just pay more attention to voice and body language since we like Astarion, but can't they hear how upset he is? How much that no is a hard no? I get that you don't necessarily understand the parallells to sexual consent unless you've romanced him or know more about his background, but still. I'm fine knowing people intentionally do evil things in their game but a lot of players don't seem to realize they did anything but mildly inconvenience him.
People who don't have any workable concept of or experience in consent and/or poor underdeveloped empathy skills (both consent and empathy are skills that must be learned to be utilized in moral compass navigation), typical struggle with understanding "what's wrong with it" or being able to pick up on how serious making someone do what they don't want to do really is. It's not a slam on their character, just more of an explanation of why certain people simply don't see the problem.
Last time I checked this is a game and not necessarily real life. Maybe, it doesn't have to be one absolute choice that EVERYONE must follow due to empathy or because it's the right thing to do. This game is about choice period. Regardless, of whether it's right or wrong with friends or allies. Besides that there are multiple playthroughs in this game. I'm sure for many this will be a one and done playthrough. Take care and stay safe everyone.
I assume it depends on if you play the game from a roleplaying perspective (where you're basically asking a team member to drink poison to get an item for the group!) or as a "gamer" who wants to maximize group combat power. That +2 STR potion _is_ a powerful reward for what seems like a non-issue from a game mechanics POV... and honestly, in my 30 years of pen & paper tabletop RPGs I've seen a lot of players go, "Eh, if doing it won't kill my character or give me a permanent debuff, what's the harm, I can just chug an antidote afterwards?" The main issue here is, you as Tav are asking _someone else_ to drink the equivalent of sewer water to gain a powerful potion; and then afterwards said person might not even reap the reward of drinking the Strength potion because from a gaming perspective it's more useful to hand the potion to the melee- and STR-oriented fighter types. I mean, the nice thing would be to at least let Astarion drink the potion to boost his measly 08 STR to 10....
funnily enough often the type of people that force him to do it are also the ones that compare him trying to bite you in your sleep to sexual assault. im incredulous really edit: bahahahaha the comment below im fucking dying this is brilliant coincidence
My first playthrough Astarion was the main character, so I had him do this and he had a inner dialog about how vile it was and it tried to wretch it back up afterwards. The potion is a +2 to strength. I figure he made his own choice in this, since he was the main character, so did not feel so bad.
Still felt a little bad for having him do that... but he would want to get more power on his own if throwing up his snack was the only price.@@yagnenttv
When I got this I was with my drow character and as a drow you know that the Oblodra House is known for their poison and all that so I could told Astarion right away what was wrong and he appreciatie that.
Oh wow! So her blood was poisoned? Maybe she had a tolerance.. That's super awesome! I do have a drow that I play, but have been so hung up on my tiefling for awhile now xD I forgot how many cool dialogue options they get!
@@Mmogurl I saw another video where they said that she basically experiments with blood and stuff. So she probably injected herself with funky stuff as part of her “experiments” and that’s why Astarion can tell there’s something wrong with it
@@tehanu3030 idk if it would work. The knowledge is still the same. The others will just regocnize you as a drow, but you will not get the knowledge of that race.
Make sure you complete Shadowhearts Nightsong Quest AFTER you run into this NPC. Doing it before can remove this NPC completely, she won't even show up in act three.
Araj and her family got exiled from drow society for not just trading in blood, but using the blood to do weird alterations to their own blood. Araj talks and behaves just like Astarion, so in a way, this scene is Astarion experiencing being a victim of Astarion, it's a subtle moment of growth that feeds into him recognizing how his past behavior made him unhappy.
There's soo many situations with characters in the game where they're essentially presented with a mirror/foil to who they were (or may end up as) at the beginning of the game, where you presumed them to be nothing but their general DnD archetypes (the know-it-all wizard, the seductive vampire etc.) to the point that you might roll your eyes at them at first. Then, the writers have fun and pull the rug on you in detailing how these backgrounds can be quite allegorical/metaphorical for less-than-great life experiences that some may go through, just contextualized through DnD's setting. Astarion being confronted with a genuinely creepy and overly-soliciting person who only views him as an object, pet or resource is about as on-the-nose as it gets with showing him a reflection (hah) of what he was turned into with Cazador.
I'm super happy to see all of the Baldurs Gate hype help smaller creators get good videos and good traction, I also refused to force him to bite her in both my playthroughs so far but it really is amazing how many options they put in the game!
I honestly loved this so much. When you support him and he's genuinely shocked but thankful it really puts into perspective how 200yr of abuse really made him just have to go along with whatever Cazador ordered. When he thanks you again later for not forcing him and how he's never had that, I teared up. I love his romance so much
The thing about drow is that they are big on taking people and enslaving them so her attitude is true to the fact that she belongs to a noble house. I’ve seen this new revelation scene though, and it’s pretty amazing.
This! Additionally, men in drow society are typically slaves as it is fully matriarchal with the priestesses of Lolth being on top. So that also explains why she acts like you own Astarion. From her perspective you do.
I had to show a lot of restraint to not outright kill her for how she spoke to Astarion. I won't let anyone treat him this way. I'll still murder her later, but I'm not ready to fight everyone in the Towers yet. She's relatively isolated, but the scrying eyes are an issue. I wondered why he declined, so I'm glad you showed it. I told her there was nothing here to discuss. A no is a no; no explanation is needed, especially considering her condescending behavior. She trades in blood and loves experimentation. Maybe she mixed her blood with something.
Yeah, if you ask what is wrong, Astarion even says he can smell there's "something wrong with her blood", that it's rank and vile... so beyond the whole issue of Astarion objecting to her treating him like Tav's slave, a slave who should fulfill her vampire kink, ýou would basically be asking him to imbibe an unknown tainted substance that might poison him, that's like asking him to drink sewer water.
I don't recommend killing her because she shows up again in Act 3 to give you some good protective Astarion content so you can just kill her after that 😂
@@leaxl08 I saw it in a video and loved it. It's wonderful to see him so confident and relaxed. The dynamic is entirely different from the first time he encountered her. I love seeing him so happy (and protective).
I tried NOT romancing him this playthrough, but couldn't force him into doing something this vile. Seems to lock me into romancing him because I didn't want to break his cold dead heart. Too bad, now Halsin will have to wait. AGAIN.
@@Kitserina astarion is fine with halsin! just reassure him of how important he is to you and he'll be golden (I think there's also one line where he watches you kiss halsin and says he's 'enjoying the view' or something to that extent)
Actually, her attitude toward Astarion is very typical of how Drow females view males of any race. But yeah, it is kinda funny. I had wanted to romance him, but my bleeding heart only earns his disapproval.
yep, for those who dont know, the Drow are a matriarchal society. Even Drow males are little more than the slave cast, so Araj turning to a female protagonist to tell Astarion to go through with it is not out of character.
That’s why, as a Drow, I responded with “he’s mine” and then immediately backed his play not to drink her blood. I got to keep up appearances and then told her to step on a Lego. It was great.
Spoiler free, but a warning. Trust me, do not ever make him drink from her. you don’t want to see it. The outcome is just as bad as your last video that you warned us about the choice saying you should be intimate because you enjoy it. Same gut, wrenching outcome. His feelings of being used. I never want to see it again.
I agree. It was just as hard to watch as the romance option to pressure him into having sex against his will. You can tell how uncomfortable he is and how much emotional damage it's doing.
@@rinwesley3092there’s actually kind of a reason for that. While not okay, he’s just never been able to do what he wants so he wants to try to drink a person’s blood with his newfound freedom. I still haven’t quite figured out whether drinking blood is intimate for him or not since it’s a source of food for him, but he’s always been forced to drink blood from rats and animals so while he’s away from Cazador, he wants to live and take advantage of life. I think he’s really good with consent when it comes to emotional stuff and sexual stuff though. I’ve seen a lot of gameplay where he won’t be with you if you’re courting someone else and I often hear him say “if that is what you want”. He doesn’t ever seem to want to really force his own feelings on you unless you seem interested back.
Between the blood merchant and the monster hunter, I'm glad there's a few character specific moments to backup or even betray your companions. It all makes the game so much more interesting. Glad you can tell Araj to back off too, since she clearly hasn't heard the word no in quite some time.
Thanks for the shoutout) This conversation also gives you two free approмals, so, guys, don't miss it. I really love how appreciative he is if you support and protect him, and how his altered confession later is more focused on his trauma and consequences of it.
No problem! I like to give credit when I can for something I wouldn't have otherwise known. But, yeah I'm not sure which scene I like more. I think I like the one I originally got slightly more because of the incredible part.. but I still have to dissect the new one and figure it out even for myself xD
@@Mmogurl I think I prefer the one we get after the Araj encounter 'cause my girl's romance with him was a slow burn, it was quite difficult to get his approval (granted, she is a very pragmatic drow warlock and is not into helping every single person we some across). So him saying he feels safe around her and expressing his vulnerability feels more dear mo me, I think) But the original version is adorable as well, I just think this one suits my current Tav more. And I think it's the coolest thing about this romance, it can change depending on what kind of Tav you're playing P.S. Give a try to Dark Urge in the future. They have a plenty of unique dialogues with Astarion.
After several previous unsuccessful attempts to find what i hadn't done to trigger his romance in act 2 your video singlehandedly saved me deleting six hours of saves to replay through all of act 2 entirely in case I missed something super early on. Me and my sanity thank you!
if you take the mage in to the conversation or maybe a drow then you know her house has been experimenting on how to breed illithies, and that their are squid blood mixed with her blood, and she is here because she wants more sample of squid blood and not true soul blood.
Ahhw, thanks for the tip! I am about to go the full romance route for him only, i have to try this. Really sweet how he is just so happy to have his boundaries accepted and respected ^-^
Ugh the more I play this game the more I love it, and the more respect I have for the dev's, writers and VA's. I've played a LOT of RPG's and CRPG's in my gaming life, and I've seriously never see anything like this game for scope, meaningful choices and consequences of your actions. I never thought I'd see it, but BG3 has solidly fixed itself as my favourite game ever, and the one I'll be replaying over and over when I want a comfort game. For many, many years it was DA:O, which was finally replaced by DOS:2. Now it's this game, and I can't imagine it losing that standing for a very long time. Also, GO you sweet fangy boy!! You tell her! No means no lady!!
The way Araj speaks implies that she’s been able to speak down to spawn before. makes me think she’s had dealings with vampires and their spawn, and those spawn not having a choice in giving their blood for their dealings. (The vampire masters probably still wouldn’t allow their spawns to drink from her, so it tracks why she still has yet to be bitten) she’s probably used to using spawn
I was romancing Shadowheart, so I forced Astarion to do this. The potion *SPOILER* gives a permanent +2 to strength. this effect does go over 20, so it made my paladin 22 strength.
+2 to strength (can let you go above 20), so its pretty nice, kinda sucks you got to make him do that to get it. When you make him drink it he doesn't like it at all, but you do get some nice dialogue explaining why he didn't like doing it that sheds some light on his mental state after all his life trauma (he felt used, something hes really not a fan of). I apologized and he responded pretty well to me. Not sure of consequences in act 3 yet (also not romancing him so can't comment on changes regarding that)
If you romanced him and ask him to drink the blood there's no option for you to convince him, he will end the romance. He won't leave the party but he will break it off with you.
@@CowboyKingthere actually is a specific set of dialogue options to get him to stay in a relationship with you even after forcing him to drink the blood.
I did the he said no option because even though I am not romancing him my tav values his choices. I’m also shooting for the best ending for all my buddies. Partly by wreaking all of their preconceived notions about their beliefs.
I actually found his reaction to you saying he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't like to be a bit sad rather than funny, because he seems a bit surprised and thanks you... for not forcing him to do something against his will. To me, that was another hint at what he would confirm when you talk to him at camp about this exchange, because that's not the reaction you'd expect, especially if there's no precedent from your PC of cruelty and disinterest towards the wishes of others. Also, I entered Moonrise after I met Raphael at Last Light Inn, but before the Mausoleum, because I got to the Mausoleum through a quest given to me in Moonrise, which is probably why that scene happened for you as late as it did. It might be set to trigger as late as possible so that the player gets ample opportunity to talk to Araj and get the alternative version.
If you are playing through as a Drow, you get the option to mention that her family was known for being obsessed with blood rituals and experimenting. You both agree that you wouldn't put it past her to do "something" with a tadpole and her blood. Astarion says it must be it and that he's had enough tadpole in his head, he doesn't want to have it in his stomach either.
In Drow society in the Underdark, they are matriarchal to the "Nth degree" so to speak-- that likely is why she's dismissive of Astarian's wishes and sees him as the player's property. There are groups whom practice more equal ways of living, but I'm guessing the writers wanted to show that.
The potion is +2 permanent strength rather than +1 which is why I ended up doing it with big headcanons that I'm very sorry and made up to him with sincere apology and swear not to do it again and firmly reaffirm his personhood. I also had the romance scene before meeting Oblodr or doing the Raphael's quest.
I wouldn’t say the NPC is ‘so far at the end of the zone’. It all depends on how you go through the zone. Personally I went to Moonrise before I even GOT the quest from Raphael later in the zone. I ended up telling Astarion ‘Maybe what you need isn’t a lover, but a friend.” And got a lot of approval from him for that-since I wasn’t planning on seriously romancing him that playthrough. Regardless, he’s very happy to have your friendship and that you support him as a person. I loved his arc more than any other in the game.
If you're a drow you'll get information that you wouldn't have had before, her family experiments with sciencey things and stuff. Her family home catches fire and she's the only one left. The experiments possibly being the reason her blood is so rank.
She shows up again somewhere on Baldurs Gate and you can talk to her again. She's got another experiment for you and you should bring Astarion along when you talk to her.
Respect of his agency and consent is always good, especially considering the life he had. I saw in a vid that if you do it, it lowers his approval, he acts fake happy to do it, he bites her and she is thrilled but Astarion is having the worst time. He actually throws up her blood. And yeah, you do get the potion, but at what cost?
Hi! I got this convo in my first game and kinda know what her deal is that'd make Astarion so squicked. Playing as a Drow, you can recognize her family name and comment that that family is infamous for experimenting with Mind Flayer stuff. Astarion hears this and is like "That explains the stench... Yeah, nope, I got enough worms in my head, don't need more of that shit in my stomach."
Also, Astarion says you’re his first, lol I’m surprised people who romance him would encourage him to do this, since the fact that you let him take your blood when HE asked for it, is pretty intimate
While I'm not in a relationship with Astarion he is my friend and I protect my friends. I hope the choice of letting him decline plays into effect while I'm in Act 3 about to do his quest.
Aw I missed this NPC like you did because I managed to get his romance scene after doing Raphael's quest too. After romancing him Araj got some more things to say when you choose "He is his own person" in the dialogue options, something i noticed was missing when I reloaded the old save before Astarion's confession
Well, as Araj an alchemist, and has a really high interest about blood-related experiments (after all, when it asks for YOUR blood, she already has a more-or-less working formula, it just needed to make it acceptable to your blood, if possible, without killing you). I am pretty sure, that she already made more than one, related to HER OWN blood. That much chemicals surely caused some mutation in her blood, which can be easily spotted by a creature, who's primary food is blood.
Well yeah, she is a Drow and men are seen as subservient in every way, especially in Menzoberranzan. So it’s really neat story telling you were able to tell (I’m a drow main and I did a little homework 😅)
I’ve also noticed that there are different versions of how he says the most common act two scene - one if very serious, while one feels more playful, and the one in my play through felt like a combo of both.
I'm playing a drow and there's a bit of extra dialogue about Araj's Oblodra family background. I won't say any more to avoid spoiling it. I'll say it's just two lines, but I was pleasantly surprised
I go my first romance with him happened in the middle of act 1 of my evil dark urge playthrew. I saw the drow at the beginning of Act 2, sense if you raid the Grove, it sends you to Moonrise at the beginning of act 2 but I did not pay attention if the interaction changed much. You do run into her again in Act 3.
I am so glad you are back making videos! I appreciated your early access vids but i recall some weren't getting lots of attention but I pray you will get more eyes!!! :D I love you go through the whole dialogue then break down each section you tried
I play as a drow and I recall my character mentioning something that her specific family has had ties with mindflayer experiments or something like that
The potion is a +2 to strength so very useful for some characters. Apparently he breaks up with you if you talk him into or force him to drink her blood though even the middle option cos it's still manipulating him.
y'know you can pretty easily save scum and find out all the options... that said, the focus of her experimentation is trying to make blood blow up when it exits the body. You can see this pretty in-depth in act 3. Soooo yeah.
I played dark urge as a drow, my drow said her house ficled with ilithds and their blood stinks and taste foul. Made him do it to see what happens. He pukes.
The potion is a +2 to Strength, which is pretty good. Especially if you're playing with a character that uses Strength a lot. Saves you from using an ability score improvement for it. Astarion disapproves of it though.
I’m upset cus she died before I got to do it and now his trying to break up with me in act 3 and I’ve now seen this event HAD to happen and I’m so upset cus I don’t wanna go ALLthe way back
potion if you do it, gives +2 strength to whomever drinks it permanently. also if you play a drow you get some insight into her family and how they experiment with mindflayers and she got mindflayer blood in herself, she experiemented on herself. so once again she just crazy.
I always play evil characters first, but my character is always with Astarion. When I got to this character, she actually really offended me with how she was treating my boy - so I save scummed and robbed her inventory with Astarion as just desserts.
Thankfully there is actually a way to get the potion (permanent +2 strength) and still keep your relationship with Astarion! When you long rest after the scene he'll want to talk to you and you can give him a hug after choosing specific options which he'll appreciate and seem to like you even more after ☺️ I experimented a bit myself because my last save besides the one just before the chat was 6 hours behind and Id worked so hard to romance him lol
I know you asked for no spoilers so Im putting this next part below. But I've seen what happens if Asterion drinks from the drow lady, and what he gets from it. It's not as much a story spoiler, but Im putting it below the read more line anyway. - - - - - - - . . . . - The UA-camr ESO plays an evil playthrough and made Asterion drink. Asterion will bite her, and throw up and got a potion of everlasting vigor. There, now you know, without having to put him through that.
I immediately said no to her to increase Astarion's approval level and I finally got him to call my character "friend" 😭 I'm just so happy our relationship is improving!
Oh this is my personal favorite drow to absolutely hate. She is impatient, condescending and arrogant. Oh how I love to refuse her. The actor, however, did a wonderful job - I love the way she says her lines. I also love that this is such an important scene in the romance path with Astarion - where you either respect his autonomy and his right to say no or you manipulate him into doing what you want for personal gain. It's such a small reflection in the delivered voiceline, but so heartbreaking to hear his surprise if you actually repspect his 'no'.
In terms of lore, she talks down on Astarion and acts like he's not his own person because he is a vampire spawn. They literally are not their own people, that's a big part of his arc and his motivations and why the notion of consent is so important to him. Yes, it's skeevy, but she has absolutely no idea that he's not a normal spawn and he isn't bound to you by magic because Astarion doesn't work how spawn are supposed to
I never had this interaction but ive lets astarion stand up for himself when he needed it. Twice hes hidden behind my character when hes felt scared (my character is taller).
If you talk to her without Astarion but mention that you know a vampire, you can bring him with you and talk to her again and also get this scene lol. Not sure if you have to do the potion thing or not but I would do it just to be safe (plus free unique enhancing potion)!
Actually while Araj can dramatically change your relationship with Astarion, even if you don't have him in your party there you can still gain high approval and unique dialogue so long as you have him in your party at the temple of shah as its also part of his quest line
i cant wait thought i'm thinking my first run through is going to be with Gale first i'm up in the air with it. i'm hoping to start playing it thought this weekend
I didn't even know she existed until the second playthrough. 😅 The first time I was at the towers, I only talked to a bugbear with a fancy mustache, one of the Zent people and Z'rell. 😅
Let's see. When i made it to the tower, there were bodies on the ground then when i finished killing the guys inside i realized that Jaheira was also dead.
She treats Astarion as if he has no free will of his own because most vampire spawn don't. They have to gave a master (not necessarily a true vampire) and their will is totally subservient to their master's. She assumes Tav is his master because SOMEONE has to be. She has no way of knowning that the tadpole has basically eliminated every negative aspect of his condition. Spawn without a master will invariably degrade into a mindless animal. This is why Astarion's "good" ending is actually the worst possible fate for him and his "siblings".
Idk if you looked into it yet, but I have seen some romance dialogue with Astarion when you play as the Dark Urge, which honestly makes Astarion an even better person? You should really look into it if you're interested, because that will definetally be my next playthrough.
I wish I knew she is this important before I spent approximately 70 hours trying my best to romance him and then starting Act 3 in tears.....Didnt touch my first savefile since and started another one, heart broken and with a approval mod in game now, I am not doing any more mistakes this time :D
Weird that no "Astarion approves" notification pops up at this point 3:32 or 3:43 to tell the player they didn't just forego a powerful potion for nothing? Because that legendary potion grants a whopping +2 STR! So from a combat optimisation point it's painful to miss out of that potion. Astarion himself with his 08 STR could really use it, in fact. But... ew, forcing him to drink the equivalent of sewer water and seeing him retch and throw up her blood _twice_ with everyone watching (just when he thinks he's done and starts speaking again he suddenly has to throw up more, the poor guy) is just demeaning to him.
I always thought the reason her blood was so foul was because of some alchemy thing she did. Later in the game, she tries to give you a potion that permanently alters your blood, so maybe she's experimented on herself at some point with a similar concoction?
I feel that the difference between the two is that the first one is coming from a place of guilt/fear 'cause he fucked around and found out (his honest feelings 😂) and so he is taking a risk he is not sure will pay off positively, but the yearning is stronger than the fear. The second is coming from a place of realizing he can trust Tav, that his yearning is not as much as a risk but a chance, so he's more comfortable being vulnerable.
![Astarion's Revelation Romance Scene - Part 3 in Act 2 [ Release Version BG3 ] #baldursgate3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I1izTfFLQ4k/mqdefault.jpg)
![Astarion's Revelation Romance Scene - Part 3 in Act 2 [ Release Version BG3 ] #baldursgate3](/img/tr.png)
![Astarion's Alternate Act 2 Romance Scene After Defending From Araj [ Release BG3 ] #baldursgate3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1D4htxoBB8/mqdefault.jpg)
Important thing to remember about drow society, relating to her attitude to him, is that they are heavily matriarchal. A female drow is always above a male drow and if you are a male anything other than a drow, you are even lower. She doesn't just treat him like this because he's a vampire spawn, but because he is a man and a non-drow man.
Damn I love drow even more now. And proud to always choose to be one.
@@uraverageperson9585 That's...concerning.
@@madamefluffy4788 okay chill at the time I didnt know that it was basically the enslavement and exploitation of men. Ik thats fucked. If it was just matriarchal without that it would have been real cool. Its basically just reverse patriarchy not really matriarchy.
@@uraverageperson9585 Matriarchy IS reverse patriarchy. It's in the name...
1000%. I'm not sure how it plays out with a male Tav, but with a female Tav, Oblodra always assumes that he belongs to you in some way.
Don't stick your fangs in crazy, that's what daggers are for!
LOL! I like that version of the saying xD
Spoken like a true rogue.
😂
🤣
i'm going home. This comment has won the internet for today.
You also get an alternative "confession" scene with him thanking you, if you didnt trigger the other one first. It definitely has different vibes, but I like how it plays into the relationship a bunch.
This was my version of his confession, and it floored me.
I just saw the other confession on UA-cam, where he talks about his hesitancy with intimacy. I was floored because that did not come up in my play through, and I absolutely love it. I said I was going to wait for my second play through but nah I’m on my astarion run now
I got this confession but I prefer the other one. He sounds so soft in that one. In this scene he almost sounded annoyed that he feels so much for us and it was funny. It's not bad, just different. I prefer the softer one where he talks to you how he had a plan and it didn't go well bc he fell for us. It's so bajsnqoshqkana
i got this confession first and as glad as i am, something about it really irked me the wrong way. Now i cant stop thinking that he's still just lying to me constantly
Exactly. I always have that one and don't need that Drow bitch 😅
Astarions whole arc is about consent and this npc definitly defines the relationship whether you romance him or not. To me it establishes whether your co equal partners or just a replacement for Cazador.
I personally think Astarion is the definition of pretty privilege. He had zero respect for consent when it comes to the main character. He tries to bite them without consent and then tries to peer pressure after. If you turn down advances, he laughs and says things like “You know you want me.” If you exchanged his character for a less conventionally attractive man, people would be complaining.
It doesn’t technically bother me because he is an evil character. He gives approval when you torture people, rip out their fingernails, slaughter innocents, manipulate, etc. I think people forget that and think he is supposed to be moral on some level. They just ignore these things because he is a sexy, white-haired vampire
louderrrrrr @@eeriefeaster1703
@@eeriefeaster1703 it’s also funny how he does all of this and gains approval from that and loves power but the moment you ask him to bite somebody who he technically doesn’t want to he gets mad even though there’s a powerful potion involved
I get why but brother you were gonna bite me so suck it up
@@eeriefeaster1703 Here's the point though: It's not just about pretty privilege, and it's not about him being moral in some way either. Astarion isn't a good or moral person, and if he was, he would be a lot less interesting.
However, Astarion, when you meet him, has spent 200 years treating others as victims, targets and nothing more, because he had to. He tries to manipulate you into a relationship, because he is terrified that if he doesn't make them love him, he will be discarded like a broken toy the moment he outlives his usefullness.
He tries to bite the player character, because he has had his first taste of freedom and finally wants to know what it's like to taste the blood of a person, after being forced to sustain himself on animals and carcasses and even having been starved for a full year after refusing to take one of his victims.
The only way Astarion knows to interact with others, when you first meet him, is to manipulate and deceive, even if he has to offer up his own body to do so. He doesn't want to sleep with your character at this point, but feels like he has to, if he wants to make sure they don't drop him.
He has no respect for the consent of others, but on the flipside, he doesn't believe his consent matters, either. That's where this scene comes in: For the first time in 200 years, his "no" is respected, encouraged and supported. For the first time since he became a spawn, someone who was in the position to make him do something that would have benefitted them against his will, that person simply accepted that he didn't want to do it and stood by him.
Astarion is a bad person, and even if you convince him to stay a spawn and help him heal to the extend that you can, Astarion remains a bad person. But his relationship to consent is born from 200 years of slavery and a lot more complex than just "If he looked worse, people wouldn't let him get away with that."
@@beardiemomThis, and also he's been reduced down to his own looks and sex appeal, being used as bait for Cazador. He's still got a lot of unpacking of his trauma to work through but this is one of the first steps in his seeing he's more than a toy for someone's fantasies, and he matters beyond being the "hot vampire". If he wasn't so beautiful then a large side of his character and story would be lost, with his looks being used to objectify him and hide how deeply hurt he is. Just because he's sexy and plays up the seductive voice, it doesn't mean he really wants sex or enjoys being with someone anymore. Yes he's conventionally attractive, but he's been shown for centuries that's all he's useful for, so actually getting to know him takes seeing past that and accepting him as a person and allowing him to express his own opinions
If you play as a Drow, there is an option telling you that the House of Oblodra was experimenting (or somehing like that) with Mind Flayers and if that could be the reason for her blood smelling rank. It's really awesome, having the race choice influencing the gama like this, giving inside knowledge and such.
Thank you! I was just wondering if there was something different if you were a drow. Now I can't wait :D
Ohhh this is really cool to know! So does this house also worship lolth? Is lolth okay with them doing this?
@@stars-and-clouds according to the wiki, they did. I think Lolth doesn‘t really care about her followers, more about the chaos and cruelty they can create, even amongst themselves. Thats why drow soceity is really cut-throat.
@@RpGirlRizo I also read that drow player characters get somewhat more mean or evil dialogue options in general (although possibly only if you pick a Lolth-worshipping drow and not those surface-dwelling drow who rejected Lolth worship? idk)
I played Seldarin Drow and Astarion wasn't in my party when i met her. And my communication with her was a bit different. She wasn't reading as mean.
I love how well this scene conveys consent (and how Astarion hasn't had it for most of his life). While he expresses annoyance when you rib him about not wanting to bite her, if you respect his wishes after he explains why he doesn't want to, his approval increases, because you're respecting his agency. I'm someone who didn't get your confession scene, but got the hug scene after this event, and I'm grateful for the creepy vampire fetishizing gal for helping Astarion and my PC to get closer.
If I remember correctly, when you play a drow there's an option that seems to imply that her blood is tainted because her family delt with dark entities (also because she, in general, is a corrupted person)
Yeah i think they worked with mind flayers and stuff
Yeah her family has mindflayer connections he says something like "I've got enough mindflayer in my head I don't need it in my stomach too."
Drow are known for messing with demons. Dregoloth arnt made by themselves.
@@catandrobbyfloreseven more specifically, House Obladra had heavy ties to Illithids and experimenting with them to gain psionic powers.
They had vampiric Illithids as pets, and it was rumoured/implied there was some form of crossbreeding between drow and illithids going on in their house, among other things.
They made a power play during the Time of Troubles, when having psionic powers gave them a huge advantage when magic/divine powers weren't working correctly. They became the most powerful house in Menzoberranzan, but Lloth made a deal with a Balor named Errtu to wipe out the houses that weren't faithful to her, including Obladra.
Which is why she talks about being exiled and in hiding, and finding a new purpose/freedom with The Absolute.
That drow family had intercourse with mindflayers, and most likely that’s what’s tainted about her blood
Honestly I chose the "No means no" option straight from the beginning cause my character didn't care why he didnt want to, just that he didn't want to. And that was fine with them.
I think the reason something is wrong with her blood is that she probably did a lot if blood magic/alchemy to herself, altering it unnaturally.
Someone commented that drow race gives you insight to her family messing around with mindflayer blood which probably is it combined with your theory
I'd like to see a possibility added for Tav to ask Astarion after the fact, in private, why he didn't want to drink her blood. Just to be able to go straight for the "no means no" without missing out on information.
@@trishapellis I was able to ask him in private after the fact. He told me she didn't smell right. Plus he does pull you to the side when you ask him in the cutscene with Araj.
what happens when you say "no means no"? Is it the same with him surprised and thanking you?
She has corruption in her blood.
I am really surprised at the amount of people who are okay with forcing him to do this and don't realize it's a big deal. Maybe we just pay more attention to voice and body language since we like Astarion, but can't they hear how upset he is? How much that no is a hard no? I get that you don't necessarily understand the parallells to sexual consent unless you've romanced him or know more about his background, but still. I'm fine knowing people intentionally do evil things in their game but a lot of players don't seem to realize they did anything but mildly inconvenience him.
People who don't have any workable concept of or experience in consent and/or poor underdeveloped empathy skills (both consent and empathy are skills that must be learned to be utilized in moral compass navigation), typical struggle with understanding "what's wrong with it" or being able to pick up on how serious making someone do what they don't want to do really is.
It's not a slam on their character, just more of an explanation of why certain people simply don't see the problem.
Last time I checked this is a game and not necessarily real life. Maybe, it doesn't have to be one absolute choice that EVERYONE must follow due to empathy or because it's the right thing to do.
This game is about choice period. Regardless, of whether it's right or wrong with friends or allies.
Besides that there are multiple playthroughs in this game. I'm sure for many this will be a one and done playthrough. Take care and stay safe everyone.
@@tetuone11 Oh, I wasn't saying no one should ever choose to do it, but the lack of understanding what it is they're choosing is surprising.
I assume it depends on if you play the game from a roleplaying perspective (where you're basically asking a team member to drink poison to get an item for the group!) or as a "gamer" who wants to maximize group combat power. That +2 STR potion _is_ a powerful reward for what seems like a non-issue from a game mechanics POV... and honestly, in my 30 years of pen & paper tabletop RPGs I've seen a lot of players go, "Eh, if doing it won't kill my character or give me a permanent debuff, what's the harm, I can just chug an antidote afterwards?" The main issue here is, you as Tav are asking _someone else_ to drink the equivalent of sewer water to gain a powerful potion; and then afterwards said person might not even reap the reward of drinking the Strength potion because from a gaming perspective it's more useful to hand the potion to the melee- and STR-oriented fighter types.
I mean, the nice thing would be to at least let Astarion drink the potion to boost his measly 08 STR to 10....
funnily enough often the type of people that force him to do it are also the ones that compare him trying to bite you in your sleep to sexual assault. im incredulous really
edit: bahahahaha the comment below im fucking dying this is brilliant coincidence
My first playthrough Astarion was the main character, so I had him do this and he had a inner dialog about how vile it was and it tried to wretch it back up afterwards. The potion is a +2 to strength. I figure he made his own choice in this, since he was the main character, so did not feel so bad.
You are Astarion in this instance, so yes, your decisions are his
Is the strenght permanent?
Yes it is, I had Astarion drink the potion himself, love the extra stats for dice rolls@@phil8821
Still felt a little bad for having him do that... but he would want to get more power on his own if throwing up his snack was the only price.@@yagnenttv
@@phil8821 Yes. It stays even through respec. If already at 20 strength it's the only way to get 22.
The voice-actor of Astarion is truly remarkable
When I got this I was with my drow character and as a drow you know that the Oblodra House is known for their poison and all that so I could told Astarion right away what was wrong and he appreciatie that.
Oh thats cool I didn’t know it was a dialogue options
Oh wow! So her blood was poisoned? Maybe she had a tolerance.. That's super awesome! I do have a drow that I play, but have been so hung up on my tiefling for awhile now xD I forgot how many cool dialogue options they get!
@@Mmogurl I saw another video where they said that she basically experiments with blood and stuff. So she probably injected herself with funky stuff as part of her “experiments” and that’s why Astarion can tell there’s something wrong with it
You can try to use disguise self, to see how a drow character experiences it @@Mmogurl
@@tehanu3030 idk if it would work. The knowledge is still the same. The others will just regocnize you as a drow, but you will not get the knowledge of that race.
Make sure you complete Shadowhearts Nightsong Quest AFTER you run into this NPC. Doing it before can remove this NPC completely, she won't even show up in act three.
Okay so I did this scene and it finally triggered my Astarion romance and it was phenomenal lol
Yay!! I'm glad! :D
Araj and her family got exiled from drow society for not just trading in blood, but using the blood to do weird alterations to their own blood.
Araj talks and behaves just like Astarion, so in a way, this scene is Astarion experiencing being a victim of Astarion, it's a subtle moment of growth that feeds into him recognizing how his past behavior made him unhappy.
There's soo many situations with characters in the game where they're essentially presented with a mirror/foil to who they were (or may end up as) at the beginning of the game, where you presumed them to be nothing but their general DnD archetypes (the know-it-all wizard, the seductive vampire etc.) to the point that you might roll your eyes at them at first. Then, the writers have fun and pull the rug on you in detailing how these backgrounds can be quite allegorical/metaphorical for less-than-great life experiences that some may go through, just contextualized through DnD's setting.
Astarion being confronted with a genuinely creepy and overly-soliciting person who only views him as an object, pet or resource is about as on-the-nose as it gets with showing him a reflection (hah) of what he was turned into with Cazador.
I'm super happy to see all of the Baldurs Gate hype help smaller creators get good videos and good traction, I also refused to force him to bite her in both my playthroughs so far but it really is amazing how many options they put in the game!
I honestly loved this so much. When you support him and he's genuinely shocked but thankful it really puts into perspective how 200yr of abuse really made him just have to go along with whatever Cazador ordered. When he thanks you again later for not forcing him and how he's never had that, I teared up. I love his romance so much
The thing about drow is that they are big on taking people and enslaving them so her attitude is true to the fact that she belongs to a noble house.
I’ve seen this new revelation scene though, and it’s pretty amazing.
This! Additionally, men in drow society are typically slaves as it is fully matriarchal with the priestesses of Lolth being on top. So that also explains why she acts like you own Astarion. From her perspective you do.
I had to show a lot of restraint to not outright kill her for how she spoke to Astarion. I won't let anyone treat him this way. I'll still murder her later, but I'm not ready to fight everyone in the Towers yet. She's relatively isolated, but the scrying eyes are an issue. I wondered why he declined, so I'm glad you showed it. I told her there was nothing here to discuss. A no is a no; no explanation is needed, especially considering her condescending behavior. She trades in blood and loves experimentation. Maybe she mixed her blood with something.
Yeah, if you ask what is wrong, Astarion even says he can smell there's "something wrong with her blood", that it's rank and vile... so beyond the whole issue of Astarion objecting to her treating him like Tav's slave, a slave who should fulfill her vampire kink, ýou would basically be asking him to imbibe an unknown tainted substance that might poison him, that's like asking him to drink sewer water.
I don't recommend killing her because she shows up again in Act 3 to give you some good protective Astarion content so you can just kill her after that 😂
@@leaxl08 I saw it in a video and loved it. It's wonderful to see him so confident and relaxed. The dynamic is entirely different from the first time he encountered her. I love seeing him so happy (and protective).
Is my game glitched? I was forced right into a battle when I went to moonrise
I tried NOT romancing him this playthrough, but couldn't force him into doing something this vile. Seems to lock me into romancing him because I didn't want to break his cold dead heart. Too bad, now Halsin will have to wait. AGAIN.
I play a Drow and have some origin output about why her blood is gross.
Good news: you can romance both him and Halsin at the same time
@@vhf3yd781nt I know Halsin is poly, but I'm not sure Astarion will be down to share
@@Kitserina I've heard that he's ok with it
@@Kitserina astarion is fine with halsin! just reassure him of how important he is to you and he'll be golden (I think there's also one line where he watches you kiss halsin and says he's 'enjoying the view' or something to that extent)
Actually, her attitude toward Astarion is very typical of how Drow females view males of any race. But yeah, it is kinda funny.
I had wanted to romance him, but my bleeding heart only earns his disapproval.
yep, for those who dont know, the Drow are a matriarchal society. Even Drow males are little more than the slave cast, so Araj turning to a female protagonist to tell Astarion to go through with it is not out of character.
That’s why, as a Drow, I responded with “he’s mine” and then immediately backed his play not to drink her blood. I got to keep up appearances and then told her to step on a Lego. It was great.
Spoiler free, but a warning.
Trust me, do not ever make him drink from her. you don’t want to see it. The outcome is just as bad as your last video that you warned us about the choice saying you should be intimate because you enjoy it. Same gut, wrenching outcome. His feelings of being used. I never want to see it again.
I agree. It was just as hard to watch as the romance option to pressure him into having sex against his will. You can tell how uncomfortable he is and how much emotional damage it's doing.
If you proposition for sex in the second dialoge, it opens up the conversation and he still confesses to liking you. It's very odd
And yet Astarion tries to drink your blood without your permission.
@@rinwesley3092there’s actually kind of a reason for that. While not okay, he’s just never been able to do what he wants so he wants to try to drink a person’s blood with his newfound freedom. I still haven’t quite figured out whether drinking blood is intimate for him or not since it’s a source of food for him, but he’s always been forced to drink blood from rats and animals so while he’s away from Cazador, he wants to live and take advantage of life. I think he’s really good with consent when it comes to emotional stuff and sexual stuff though. I’ve seen a lot of gameplay where he won’t be with you if you’re courting someone else and I often hear him say “if that is what you want”. He doesn’t ever seem to want to really force his own feelings on you unless you seem interested back.
And I’ll make him do it again
Between the blood merchant and the monster hunter, I'm glad there's a few character specific moments to backup or even betray your companions. It all makes the game so much more interesting. Glad you can tell Araj to back off too, since she clearly hasn't heard the word no in quite some time.
Thanks for the shoutout) This conversation also gives you two free approмals, so, guys, don't miss it.
I really love how appreciative he is if you support and protect him, and how his altered confession later is more focused on his trauma and consequences of it.
No problem! I like to give credit when I can for something I wouldn't have otherwise known. But, yeah I'm not sure which scene I like more. I think I like the one I originally got slightly more because of the incredible part.. but I still have to dissect the new one and figure it out even for myself xD
@@Mmogurl I think I prefer the one we get after the Araj encounter 'cause my girl's romance with him was a slow burn, it was quite difficult to get his approval (granted, she is a very pragmatic drow warlock and is not into helping every single person we some across). So him saying he feels safe around her and expressing his vulnerability feels more dear mo me, I think)
But the original version is adorable as well, I just think this one suits my current Tav more. And I think it's the coolest thing about this romance, it can change depending on what kind of Tav you're playing
P.S. Give a try to Dark Urge in the future. They have a plenty of unique dialogues with Astarion.
I love that they went to the effort to add in a whole different romance scene based on this one interaction. That’s so cool!
I like how we collectively decided to give Astarion Minthara's armor
Apparently if you play as a drow, your character know what is wrong with her. Its because her family makes experiences with blood.
I saw someone upload this encounter with the title "Astarion meets twilight fan". Cracked me up lol
After several previous unsuccessful attempts to find what i hadn't done to trigger his romance in act 2 your video singlehandedly saved me deleting six hours of saves to replay through all of act 2 entirely in case I missed something super early on. Me and my sanity thank you!
It's two points into strength permanently which means that your strength modifier will go up by one no matter what.
if you take the mage in to the conversation or maybe a drow then you know her house has been experimenting on how to breed illithies, and that their are squid blood mixed with her blood, and she is here because she wants more sample of squid blood and not true soul blood.
Ahhw, thanks for the tip! I am about to go the full romance route for him only, i have to try this. Really sweet how he is just so happy to have his boundaries accepted and respected ^-^
i picked the "he is all mine" opion when i first got the scene 😂
Ugh the more I play this game the more I love it, and the more respect I have for the dev's, writers and VA's. I've played a LOT of RPG's and CRPG's in my gaming life, and I've seriously never see anything like this game for scope, meaningful choices and consequences of your actions. I never thought I'd see it, but BG3 has solidly fixed itself as my favourite game ever, and the one I'll be replaying over and over when I want a comfort game. For many, many years it was DA:O, which was finally replaced by DOS:2. Now it's this game, and I can't imagine it losing that standing for a very long time.
Also, GO you sweet fangy boy!! You tell her! No means no lady!!
The way Araj speaks implies that she’s been able to speak down to spawn before. makes me think she’s had dealings with vampires and their spawn, and those spawn not having a choice in giving their blood for their dealings. (The vampire masters probably still wouldn’t allow their spawns to drink from her, so it tracks why she still has yet to be bitten) she’s probably used to using spawn
I was romancing Shadowheart, so I forced Astarion to do this. The potion *SPOILER* gives a permanent +2 to strength. this effect does go over 20, so it made my paladin 22 strength.
+2 to strength (can let you go above 20), so its pretty nice, kinda sucks you got to make him do that to get it. When you make him drink it he doesn't like it at all, but you do get some nice dialogue explaining why he didn't like doing it that sheds some light on his mental state after all his life trauma (he felt used, something hes really not a fan of). I apologized and he responded pretty well to me. Not sure of consequences in act 3 yet (also not romancing him so can't comment on changes regarding that)
yeah he stayed, could be approval related@@kloy.m341
If you romanced him and ask him to drink the blood there's no option for you to convince him, he will end the romance. He won't leave the party but he will break it off with you.
@@CowboyKingthere actually is a specific set of dialogue options to get him to stay in a relationship with you even after forcing him to drink the blood.
ah good to know, don't do it in a romance run@@CowboyKing
@@jaustin97601 Only draw is that, from what I remember, it's highly manipulative, so it's only to be done if you want to be that kind of character.
I did the he said no option because even though I am not romancing him my tav values his choices. I’m also shooting for the best ending for all my buddies. Partly by wreaking all of their preconceived notions about their beliefs.
I actually found his reaction to you saying he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't like to be a bit sad rather than funny, because he seems a bit surprised and thanks you... for not forcing him to do something against his will. To me, that was another hint at what he would confirm when you talk to him at camp about this exchange, because that's not the reaction you'd expect, especially if there's no precedent from your PC of cruelty and disinterest towards the wishes of others.
Also, I entered Moonrise after I met Raphael at Last Light Inn, but before the Mausoleum, because I got to the Mausoleum through a quest given to me in Moonrise, which is probably why that scene happened for you as late as it did. It might be set to trigger as late as possible so that the player gets ample opportunity to talk to Araj and get the alternative version.
If you are playing through as a Drow, you get the option to mention that her family was known for being obsessed with blood rituals and experimenting. You both agree that you wouldn't put it past her to do "something" with a tadpole and her blood. Astarion says it must be it and that he's had enough tadpole in his head, he doesn't want to have it in his stomach either.
In Drow society in the Underdark, they are matriarchal to the "Nth degree" so to speak-- that likely is why she's dismissive of Astarian's wishes and sees him as the player's property. There are groups whom practice more equal ways of living, but I'm guessing the writers wanted to show that.
The potion is +2 permanent strength rather than +1 which is why I ended up doing it with big headcanons that I'm very sorry and made up to him with sincere apology and swear not to do it again and firmly reaffirm his personhood. I also had the romance scene before meeting Oblodr or doing the Raphael's quest.
I wouldn’t say the NPC is ‘so far at the end of the zone’. It all depends on how you go through the zone. Personally I went to Moonrise before I even GOT the quest from Raphael later in the zone. I ended up telling Astarion ‘Maybe what you need isn’t a lover, but a friend.” And got a lot of approval from him for that-since I wasn’t planning on seriously romancing him that playthrough. Regardless, he’s very happy to have your friendship and that you support him as a person. I loved his arc more than any other in the game.
If you're a drow you'll get information that you wouldn't have had before, her family experiments with sciencey things and stuff. Her family home catches fire and she's the only one left. The experiments possibly being the reason her blood is so rank.
She shows up again somewhere on Baldurs Gate and you can talk to her again. She's got another experiment for you and you should bring Astarion along when you talk to her.
Okay so I did the good playthrough and raided moonrise immediately, so I had no time to talk to this npc. Could this convo happen later on?
Respect of his agency and consent is always good, especially considering the life he had.
I saw in a vid that if you do it, it lowers his approval, he acts fake happy to do it, he bites her and she is thrilled but Astarion is having the worst time. He actually throws up her blood. And yeah, you do get the potion, but at what cost?
Hi! I got this convo in my first game and kinda know what her deal is that'd make Astarion so squicked.
Playing as a Drow, you can recognize her family name and comment that that family is infamous for experimenting with Mind Flayer stuff. Astarion hears this and is like "That explains the stench... Yeah, nope, I got enough worms in my head, don't need more of that shit in my stomach."
Also, Astarion says you’re his first, lol I’m surprised people who romance him would encourage him to do this, since the fact that you let him take your blood when HE asked for it, is pretty intimate
While I'm not in a relationship with Astarion he is my friend and I protect my friends. I hope the choice of letting him decline plays into effect while I'm in Act 3 about to do his quest.
I'd think I'd have to become an oath breaker right when she thought astarion was being controlled by tav.
Oooo! I really want to know the two different romance scenes!
I’m going to look out for your video showing both different scenes!! I’m excited!!!
Holy crap, two videos in one day! Thank you for all your hard work! ❤
Aw I missed this NPC like you did because I managed to get his romance scene after doing Raphael's quest too. After romancing him Araj got some more things to say when you choose "He is his own person" in the dialogue options, something i noticed was missing when I reloaded the old save before Astarion's confession
Well, as Araj an alchemist, and has a really high interest about blood-related experiments (after all, when it asks for YOUR blood, she already has a more-or-less working formula, it just needed to make it acceptable to your blood, if possible, without killing you). I am pretty sure, that she already made more than one, related to HER OWN blood. That much chemicals surely caused some mutation in her blood, which can be easily spotted by a creature, who's primary food is blood.
Well yeah, she is a Drow and men are seen as subservient in every way, especially in Menzoberranzan. So it’s really neat story telling you were able to tell (I’m a drow main and I did a little homework 😅)
I’ve also noticed that there are different versions of how he says the most common act two scene - one if very serious, while one feels more playful, and the one in my play through felt like a combo of both.
I'm playing a drow and there's a bit of extra dialogue about Araj's Oblodra family background. I won't say any more to avoid spoiling it. I'll say it's just two lines, but I was pleasantly surprised
This video actually helped me get his romance scene, thank you 😭
I go my first romance with him happened in the middle of act 1 of my evil dark urge playthrew. I saw the drow at the beginning of Act 2, sense if you raid the Grove, it sends you to Moonrise at the beginning of act 2 but I did not pay attention if the interaction changed much. You do run into her again in Act 3.
I am so glad you are back making videos! I appreciated your early access vids but i recall some weren't getting lots of attention but I pray you will get more eyes!!! :D I love you go through the whole dialogue then break down each section you tried
On my play through I went for option 2 - "It's up to you, but we could really use that potion." I got the same scene as the beginning or your vid.
I play as a drow and I recall my character mentioning something that her specific family has had ties with mindflayer experiments or something like that
The potion gives you a permanent +2 to your strength. It's a pretty good potion for melle builds.
Have you taken Astarion to the drow twins in wyrms crossing before stepping into Baldurs gate? You should try that.
She is in act 2!
The potion is a +2 to strength so very useful for some characters. Apparently he breaks up with you if you talk him into or force him to drink her blood though even the middle option cos it's still manipulating him.
Even if you don't romance him he still speaks to you to about the encounter!
y'know you can pretty easily save scum and find out all the options... that said, the focus of her experimentation is trying to make blood blow up when it exits the body. You can see this pretty in-depth in act 3. Soooo yeah.
I played dark urge as a drow, my drow said her house ficled with ilithds and their blood stinks and taste foul. Made him do it to see what happens. He pukes.
The potion is a +2 to Strength, which is pretty good. Especially if you're playing with a character that uses Strength a lot. Saves you from using an ability score improvement for it. Astarion disapproves of it though.
I’m upset cus she died before I got to do it and now his trying to break up with me in act 3 and I’ve now seen this event HAD to happen and I’m so upset cus I don’t wanna go ALLthe way back
potion if you do it, gives +2 strength to whomever drinks it permanently. also if you play a drow you get some insight into her family and how they experiment with mindflayers and she got mindflayer blood in herself, she experiemented on herself. so once again she just crazy.
Wow that’s just awesome!! It’s soo interesting to see this, thanks.
Drow have a special response. Her drow house have done experiment on their own blood for a long time including with mindflayers ect
If you give her your blood for a potion. There's another really cool scene between asterion and Tav in act 3 with Araj Oblodra too!
I always play evil characters first, but my character is always with Astarion. When I got to this character, she actually really offended me with how she was treating my boy - so I save scummed and robbed her inventory with Astarion as just desserts.
Thankfully there is actually a way to get the potion (permanent +2 strength) and still keep your relationship with Astarion!
When you long rest after the scene he'll want to talk to you and you can give him a hug after choosing specific options which he'll appreciate and seem to like you even more after ☺️ I experimented a bit myself because my last save besides the one just before the chat was 6 hours behind and Id worked so hard to romance him lol
Sorry Astartion, i want that potion, get to nibbling.
I know you asked for no spoilers so Im putting this next part below. But I've seen what happens if Asterion drinks from the drow lady, and what he gets from it. It's not as much a story spoiler, but Im putting it below the read more line anyway.
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The UA-camr ESO plays an evil playthrough and made Asterion drink. Asterion will bite her, and throw up and got a potion of everlasting vigor. There, now you know, without having to put him through that.
I immediately said no to her to increase Astarion's approval level and I finally got him to call my character "friend" 😭 I'm just so happy our relationship is improving!
THANK YOU SO MUCH I couldn't of wooed him with out you ❤❤
Oh this is my personal favorite drow to absolutely hate. She is impatient, condescending and arrogant. Oh how I love to refuse her. The actor, however, did a wonderful job - I love the way she says her lines. I also love that this is such an important scene in the romance path with Astarion - where you either respect his autonomy and his right to say no or you manipulate him into doing what you want for personal gain. It's such a small reflection in the delivered voiceline, but so heartbreaking to hear his surprise if you actually repspect his 'no'.
In terms of lore, she talks down on Astarion and acts like he's not his own person because he is a vampire spawn. They literally are not their own people, that's a big part of his arc and his motivations and why the notion of consent is so important to him. Yes, it's skeevy, but she has absolutely no idea that he's not a normal spawn and he isn't bound to you by magic because Astarion doesn't work how spawn are supposed to
I never had this interaction but ive lets astarion stand up for himself when he needed it. Twice hes hidden behind my character when hes felt scared (my character is taller).
If you talk to her without Astarion but mention that you know a vampire, you can bring him with you and talk to her again and also get this scene lol. Not sure if you have to do the potion thing or not but I would do it just to be safe (plus free unique enhancing potion)!
Actually while Araj can dramatically change your relationship with Astarion, even if you don't have him in your party there you can still gain high approval and unique dialogue so long as you have him in your party at the temple of shah as its also part of his quest line
i cant wait thought i'm thinking my first run through is going to be with Gale first i'm up in the air with it. i'm hoping to start playing it thought this weekend
I didn't even know she existed until the second playthrough. 😅
The first time I was at the towers, I only talked to a bugbear with a fancy mustache, one of the Zent people and Z'rell. 😅
I havent finshed his personal quest yet, havent spoken to araj yet, approval at 100 and the scene from video 4 is playing for me
Let's see. When i made it to the tower, there were bodies on the ground then when i finished killing the guys inside i realized that Jaheira was also dead.
I mean, heck, if you want to see protective Astarion….. just keep an eye out in the city ❤😉
She treats Astarion as if he has no free will of his own because most vampire spawn don't. They have to gave a master (not necessarily a true vampire) and their will is totally subservient to their master's. She assumes Tav is his master because SOMEONE has to be. She has no way of knowning that the tadpole has basically eliminated every negative aspect of his condition.
Spawn without a master will invariably degrade into a mindless animal. This is why Astarion's "good" ending is actually the worst possible fate for him and his "siblings".
Can confirm, my romance scene after his personal quest. Considering his past I don't think he would like it if you forced him to drink her blood.
Idk if you looked into it yet, but I have seen some romance dialogue with Astarion when you play as the Dark Urge, which honestly makes Astarion an even better person? You should really look into it if you're interested, because that will definetally be my next playthrough.
I wish I knew she is this important before I spent approximately 70 hours trying my best to romance him and then starting Act 3 in tears.....Didnt touch my first savefile since and started another one, heart broken and with a approval mod in game now, I am not doing any more mistakes this time :D
Weird that no "Astarion approves" notification pops up at this point 3:32 or 3:43 to tell the player they didn't just forego a powerful potion for nothing? Because that legendary potion grants a whopping +2 STR! So from a combat optimisation point it's painful to miss out of that potion. Astarion himself with his 08 STR could really use it, in fact. But... ew, forcing him to drink the equivalent of sewer water and seeing him retch and throw up her blood _twice_ with everyone watching (just when he thinks he's done and starts speaking again he suddenly has to throw up more, the poor guy) is just demeaning to him.
I always thought the reason her blood was so foul was because of some alchemy thing she did. Later in the game, she tries to give you a potion that permanently alters your blood, so maybe she's experimented on herself at some point with a similar concoction?
I feel that the difference between the two is that the first one is coming from a place of guilt/fear 'cause he fucked around and found out (his honest feelings 😂) and so he is taking a risk he is not sure will pay off positively, but the yearning is stronger than the fear. The second is coming from a place of realizing he can trust Tav, that his yearning is not as much as a risk but a chance, so he's more comfortable being vulnerable.
If you force him to do it, he will end your romance because of it. Soo sad, but understandable. I had to roll back my game.
If you play the evil playthrough, this is nearly at the start of the zone. :D
12 hours later i realized i missed this scene so now i have to reload back into act 2 😭