The reason why it's less intimate and it doesn't have the same options as the romance one is because you can have this scene without romancing him. It can be a friendly conversation and you can even hug him and hold hands as a friend.
Seriously, these people all need candy, a hug (platonic or otherwise), and years of therapy. I'd kill to be able to give gifts/trinkets to my companions, even if it doesn't affect their approval I just want to give them all little things and see how they react.
@Mmogurl I got this scene first, because I am a ravening completist (something I'm actually really regretting for BG3, as it has hugely restricted my desire to replay because I would have to make so many fundamentally different choices that I, personally, would not be comfortable making in order to see anything different. Whereas if there were bits I simply hadn't seen and explored, I could play a similar persona and still have a different game) and had found and interacted with Araj. And even despite choosing the "So why sleep with me?" option here so getting the admission and then confession of complications, having now seen the non-Araj scene several times via various clips that one is so, so, so much better and more emotional. This one was cute, and touching, but doesn't give you as deep insight into Astarion (which you still get through later scenes and interactions, if you're following his "good" romance in fairness) and doesn't expose his vulnerability as openly. Definitely wishing I'd gotten this one on my "canon" playthrough. But hey, maybe I'll reload that whole playthrough very early on and just do another run with that same Tav, only.....different 😉
I found Astarion's line "A moment of disgust to force myself through. And then I could have carried on, just like before." pretty gut-wrenching. Not only does it imply between the lines that he _thought_ he could force himself through and then repress the disgust as he had done before but then he found it didn't work. You can _hear_ the unsaid "but..." hanging in the air at the end of his sentence. And him talking so matter-of-factly about it means he acknowledges that he became numb to it. I wouldn't call it "blasé" so much as "resigned to his fate". He couldn't afford to have too many feelings about it or he'd go absolutely insane.
I think both scenes are good for different reasons. This demonstrates and solidifies that your respect him as a person, care for him and his freedom, and won't just use him for your needs. The other scene demonstrates and solidifies Astarian's guilt, vulnerability, and flustering that he was going to use you for his needs but he can't in good conscience because he likes you. In an ideal world, we'd be able to get the best of both, but perhaps the scene would run for too long, haha.
I like this distinction - both are great, but I think they'll hit differently for people with different experiences. Seeing Astarion really dig it when you respect his agency was amazing for me - I've never seen that before in this type of game, and I love it.
The scene on her previous video is if you are romancing him. This scene is part of his normal personal quest and you can get it and be friends with him, its more like a higher affection scene if you have high approval but you arent flagged for romance
I got this scene, and it won me over to the depth of Astarion's romance - that they really are showing the psychological impacts of abuse). I had a feeling something was up based on his reaction to my respecting his agency in the scene with Araj (it's a sign that he hasn't had agency or choice in his past and accepted that). Whenever he seems surprised (asking the color of his eyes, respecting his "no"), it's a sign that we're touching on something big for him. I want to get the first scene you got, but I still appreciated this one.
Mate could you share how to get this interaction? I am in act 2 and got to moon rower with druids and they have started assault but I haven’t met this character Arja yet :(
@@radayar Hi! Sorry, but you'll need to meet her before you start the assault. You can enter the tower and walk around freely - everyone will be neutral to you then. Araj is just off the kitchen area. Good luck!
My immediate reaction to the drow scene was to protect him. If someone I care about doesn't want to do something they don't have to do it. The fact he thanked me and thought getting a choice wasn't an option was heartbreaking.
Actually you can still get a confession from him about using you in the beginning. At 2:07, where you picked "That would've been wrong", if you choose "So why sleep with me? Did you think you'd get something from it?" he says that he did it for protection - to have you protect him from the prejudice of others - but then admits the same thing, that he unexpectedly fell for you.
Thank you for this comment, cleared it up for me. I got this scene, and was debating reloading 5 h, but now I am sure I dont have to. So thanks! I’ll just make sure to have this scene in my next pt 😆🤩
I could see how Astarion's demeanor changes depending on the drow interaction. I, too, prefer the first confession because he's so vulnerable and brave laying out his whole heart to Tav, especially considering his admitting how he lied to you. He's putting himself in a vulnerable position to be possibly kicked out, etc. Maybe after sticking up for him, it emboldens him, and he trusts even more than before, so he's not shaking in his boots as much.
Also, now that I'm thinking about it. I think I saw that the Araj aftermath scene plays for a platonic/friendship route too so maybe it doesn't feel as vulnerable because they had to shoehorn the romance in there in case the other scene didn't play? Idk the romance flags are very interesting for release at least.
yeah exaclty! See, I think her point makes a lot of sense because in this case he had a jumping-off point. There was already a topic/excuse to start the conversation, so it's easier. It's what I'd always wait for when wanting to talk about deep/meaningful/important stuff with others just so it'd make it easier/more comfortable to begin. Whereas in the other one, it's ALL him with the equivalent of pulling it outta his ass outta nowhere, and he's just gotta be vulnerable and real and so very confused and feeling too much and just DO IT. So I 100% get the vibe she was describing.
If you choose the option of asking him if that's why he slept with you it triggers a dialogue similar to that one, I prefer this one since if you chose that one option it still shows that he became honest about using you but falling for you int he process and then he gets to feel what consent is
I slightly prefer the other one, but I really wish we could get both scenes because they're both so good. I really enjoy how seriously the writing takes Astarion's trauma and his feelings. It's like "yes, this is a game, have fun, but it is a roleplaying game and if you treat this very vulnerable character like he's an object you will be called out for it." I'm thinking of how if you made him drink from her he says 'there's nothing in the world as desirable as a vampire, is there?' And how if you pressured him into sex he says 'this is a game to you.' It's not fourth-wall breaking exactly, but it's in that territory and I love it.
"I really enjoy how seriously the writing takes Astarion's trauma and his feelings." Agreed. There are interviews online, on YT and PCGamer magazine, with Neil Newbon the voice actor and with the Larian writer who worked on Astarion's story and dialogue, and they both said they wanted to treat this with the utmost respect. I think it's clever that the writers used the D&D setting to their advantage by making Astarion a High Elf (who live up to 750 years), because it means they could concentrate on the horrors of being a _vampire spawn_ and helpless thrall to a vampire, instead of repeating the standard tropes of vampire stories: becoming a vampire to be immortal, then finding out it sucks, the ennui of living forever while the world around you changes etc. Astarion would have had many centuries of natural lifespan in front of him had he not being turned into a vampire. He accepted Cazador's offer to turn him because he wanted revenge on his murderers, and because the alternative was bleeding to death in an alley. The game leaves it unclear how old he was as an elf when he was turned, but there's a line from him I've seen that implies he was around 100 years old (young adulthood for an elf)[*], because he says "I know I don't look a day over 100 years old, but..." that occurs if the player is romancing Astarion while playing as the Dark Urge and Astarion finds out the Dark Urge is a Bhaalspawn. Astarion says he remember when the Bhaalspawn were last active in Baldur's Gate 100 years ago (referencing the events of Baldur's Gate 2 game) and that he was already a fledgeling vampire spawn back then. [*] Though frankly I think Astarion looks the equivalent of 30-something, with the creases next to his mouth etc. But trauma does that to people. And I assume his hair became grey-white due to stress (does your hair still grow when you're an undead vampire spawn?) and that he _used_ to have dark hair... because I've seen old footage from early Early Access versions from 2020 where Astarion hair still was peppered with black hair strands.
I agree that the first confession felt more emotional, but I like this one, him realizing you won't make him do something he does not want to do is a turning point in the relationship. Also, I got the second confession and it didn't affect the romance going foward
I was hurt the first time hearing him say seducing you was easy but after hearing it a couple times, I don’t think he means you’re easy. I think it’s more so him relying on his skills he built up from years of charming people to their doom. He thought it would turn out similarly.
Or that it was easy for him rather than easy to do because he was actually attracted to Tav, and maybe didn't have to force himself. If you ask if he was attracted to you in the other scene, He'll say "of course, you're a vision." That said my char didn't take any persuasion to have spicy fun time with him. If you sleep with him a 2nd time in act 1 and he says "what if i said these three little words: everyone's favourite. I love you" and his approval is high enough his whole expression changes. Your reply will trigger a response that hints at the truth. My approval was in the 90s by the teifling party (we had some giggles and walking in on the bugbear and the ogre will always be funny, as will his reaction to the sunlance and a building falling on him).
I got this scene first cause I accidentally stumbled on Araj looking for vendors, and I didn't know how important the scene was at the time. I actually chose 'Maybe you need a friend and not a lover' because as an asexual, that just ...I dunno, made sense to me. Which meant I didn't go through the 'I care about you' to even see there was a stay together but not have 'honks' option. When I went back later to try other options, having an option to be in a relationship without sex caused me to burst out crying, because you just don't see that as an option...like anywhere. It's amazing how Astarion's storyline can mean so much to so many different people.
Had you chosen to make him bite the drow, this scene serves as his way of telling you that he's "woken up" and realized he's allowed to say no. He proceeds to then break up with you becuase you willingly forced him into doing something he clearly wasn't comfortable with. That being said, I definitely agree that this scene seems out of place in a romance line. I highly prefer the default scene you get prior to meeting the drow. He's so much more emotionally vulnerable, almost feeling ashamed that he has feelings for you but knows deep down you're worth it. He's just terrified to have any autonomy whatsoever, even when it comes to what he desires. As much as it scares him, he's finally admitted to himself that he at least wants to try and take your partnership to the next level. I really, really love in the default scene that you can tell him that you don't have to sleep together anymore until he's ready. It just seems way more intimate than this one.
Yeah I might have to experiment with that drow a bit more in my next game.. or maybe go back and try some alternatives once I'm done. I definitely like the original scene more though.. it's just so much better on all fronts.
Yes, I've seen people on Reddit wondering why this whole interaction is such a big scene and why Astarion complains afterwards even if you choose "It's up to you, but that potion sounds very useful". They thought they gave him a choice and he gave in and decided to bite her so why is he complaining still? I tried to explain to them that there's a difference between respecting his disgust and giving him the choice to say "no", versus emotionally blackmailing him to "take one for the team" by basically telling him "Hey, dude, I hear you, _but..._ y'know that potion is super-useful", putting pressure on him to agree while pretending it's his choice. By doing the latter you're telling him you value a legendary potion more than his well-being and his agency and that're okay with using him to get the potion.
That moment when your character hugs him... it's seems to be a look of serenity, almost a moment of angelic peace. The moment when he is starting to heal if he chooses to go down that road.
At 6:28, it really makes my heart feel for Astarion. I had an ex that I cared for deeply, she had a lot of issues and I thought if I was with her and I treated her with love and care that I could help her. Turns out I was just being used for sex and she didn’t care much for me. It really hurt, when I was reflecting back on it, I was a means to an end for her. When I heard him say that, it really resonated with me.
Yeah, honestly, it’s sad but a lot of the time, love will never be enough for most people with issues. It would be wonderful and easy if that were the case. But people’s issues can be so deeply ingrained, love couldn’t ever be enough. Sometimes even professional help wouldn’t be enough, but it’s certainly a better and more healthy option. I’m sorry she hurt you, but it’s what’s best for you. It’s not your job to fix her. She’s responsible for her own issues. If she can’t help herself with your support, there’s nothing you could’ve done.
@@SusanaCanales1 I appreciate your kind words. ❤️ This was fortunately many years ago, and I don’t even think of it much anymore. But when he said this line, it reminded me of her.
@@emotionalnpc that’s good. I hope you’re faring well! Yes, they did a really great job with him if he can remind us of people in our own lives or were in our own lives.
I prefer this scene, because it echoes something I've done and had to deal with - being grateful for basic decency after years of abuse. You shouldn't feel that way because it should be expected, but you do, and it's embarrassing and makes your partner incredibly sad for you.
So I don't know if it's a bug, but if you have this "thank you scene" instead of the original one, Astarion's greetings for you change as well. After the long rest, he will start greeting you with "gods you're beautiful" and another one I can't exactly recall atm. But they are just so dro-dead gorgeous the way Neil says them.. And the problem is - this does NOT happen if you had the original confession scene instead! LIke I got spoiled a little to try and find Araj and so I compared both instances - only this mashed-up thank you/confession scene yields the new greetings. Now I have no idea whether you can still get the new greetings at a later date or something, or if this was a unique thing available after this specific dialogue.. trying to research it doesn't bring up any insights, sadly. If you went with the first confesison scene like me, would you please let me know if these greetings changed for you later on or not? (assuming you're further in the game than I, which seems highly likely as I'm still halfway through MRT atm!). Cheers,
If you meet the drow before going to the Mausoleum and doing Raphael's task this cancels out the confession, because it pushes the romance forward, and would potentially duplicate the encounter. I suppose you could get both if you went straight back to moonrise after defeating the orthon, but before running the gauntlet but by the time I left moonrise the first time I'd rescued minthara, wulbren and the teiflings and had avoided going back to the metaphorical hornets nest I had kicked until I'd freed Aylin. Also the drow was gone when I went back to finish off Ketheric. I think you get one scene or the other.
Astarion reminds me of a weird mix of Zevran and Fenris from Dragon Age, and Lestat from Interview with a Vampire. Fenris due to having a similar background of being used and abused. They also share hating and being afraid of their tormentors, and both are willing to do just about anything to ensure that they’ll stay free. Zevran due to specific personality traits as both are charming, witty, a tad selfish, and hide behind a front that they wear like a mask. It’s not until you show them patience, understanding, and care whether platonic or romantic that they finally let their guard down and realize that they are more than what The Crows and Cazador made them. And finally Lestat due to both being vampires and also having some personality traits in common, which kind of overlaps with what I said about Zevran.
This is so true. Astarion's story really hit me so hard and made me cry so much because it truly is representative of not only what abuse is like - but chronic torturous physical, sexual and psychological abuse is like. I suffered such abuse most of my life and all throughout growing up - and his way of thinking even things he SAYS I have SAID before. Or what he prioritizes and feels, his world views. God it is all so accurate.
If you pick option 5, you get a flavor if the normal romance scene. He confesses his intent was to use your character but he’s fallen for them in the process. I personally really like this version with a Dark Urge who’s suppressing their nature romance because of the mutual trust it builds.
I kinda like choosing the option of 'So why did you sleep with me?' - His answer comes off as egotistical and acid, but you can tell in the tone of his voice and exaggerated physicality he's bracing himself for rejection. 'Tav couldn't possibly like me if I admit I was using them, I'm going to get a blow in and protect myself'. Then if you go for the hug, it just works beautifully with the sudden shock and relaxation you see in him. It's an emotional rollercoaster for him.
In the first one, he's basically saying that he's willing to put his guard down for you because of his emotional attachments, while in the second one, the trust has already been earned and he feels completely secure around you. Both are powerful in their own ways
Actually try the "as a reward i hoped you would throw yourself at me" - this is in my opinion the most heartbreaking line he ever delivers. Just so you have seen it once. This man just breaks my heart at every turn.
@lidia6372 "I- I'm not sure if I should. I don't think I want you to think of me in terms of sex. I don't know if I want anyone to." If Tav asks then "How do you want me to see you?" he says: "As a person? Would that be so much to ask?". After that it continues on to the option to hug him etc. Neil did a tremendous job in this scene. Sadly I cant find it on youtube there are not many that record all the possible dialogue scenes and this one seems at first lead to a bad outcome. For me it feels more like a Tav that cant read the room and is so used to his constant innuendos and teasing that they think this is the way to go with him.
I think at least from my perspective that Tav might be trying to be as flirty and as Astarion is and it falls flat. Astarion has set the tone of much of the flirting and to me Tav is returning the favor. Unfortunately it falls flat.
@@serenenightful Yeah, totally with you on this one. It follows his earlier tone on flirting. My first Tav was not big on understanding situations like that instantly so she goes with what she thinks is their way of being nice to each other. B/c for her nice Asta means flirty Asta. Yeah, that was a hard conversation, for both of them.
Being in Act 3 now, I've begun to analyze what were the foundations that potentially were used to build the characters of our companions. I have this conclusion that all their stories focus on the concept of lacking freedom and being submissive to something (one way or another). And from all those stories, Astarion's character arc is most dramatic because it's most literal. If you think about that, in our real life he could be portrayed as a victim of human trafficking and any form of abuse (including s***al). That hits hard especially if you consider that this trope is usually "reserved" for female characters...
I actually prefer the second scene, i find it funny he confessed to using Tav in the beginning and how easy it was. I mean, that dude is too smooth for his own good, cant imagine anyone was surprised he had other intentions with how forward he was 😂 But the revelation that he developed feelings makes me smile because she got under his skin and into his head and that fits better with how ive designed and played Tav. This game is beautifully detailed and i love how diverse the scenes are with their choices and end results
The writing and performance is just so GOOD and CONSISTENT, I am feasting. idk if you knew this, but part of why Astarion's storyline (romance or no) h i t s is because, as Neil talked about in a PC Gamer interview, he's actually an abuse survivor himself. If you havent read it yet i can link it, but it was shocking simply because you just don't hear about men's abuse. Actually, men's abuse is often just played for laughs, but this really comes through in how Astarion reacts to various third parties trying to get something from him (mostly through coercion). It's the skill and sensitivity of this creative team that really SOLIDIFIES "a pixel man's" personhood and separates Astarion out from Another Lil Meow Meow status. Sure, i pike joking around with my roomie and putting Astarion in cute outfits or accidentally blow him up on traps, but underpinning that is a genuine adoration for this character and i think the fact that this is resonating with so many people isn't a mistake.
All the characters suffer in their own ways but helping Astarion through his trauma honestly is the best companion/romance. Especially when you don’t make him the Ascendant. I agree as well that the scene without meeting Araj is more vulnerable. Neil Newbon’s voice acting is making me feel things! I bought this game because of a good looking pixel man with a seductive voice, I did not expect this emotional investment 🥺
Everyone went for the hug, I let him see my mind because I think this is what can truly reassure someone. We can never truly know people real feeling or thought, but with the tadpole, they can and if I was Astarion how spend his life being control and manipulate, I would rather that than a hug, to be sure it wasn’t a hug with hidden meaning. (If my memories is right, he approves this choice)
I heard something when i was younger that "we see ourselves in the media we consume." I'm sure that has a lot of interpretations, but for me it always struck me as 'the things that I resonate with and enjoy in media/fandom are pieces of me and I should probably analyze why." I felt like that with Astarion when he talked about this additional scene.
Your videos are a great listen. I do hope you examine every companion. The personal stories of each has a core of a desire for freedom that is just so touching.
I actually prefer this scene because, too me, it makes more sense for Astarion to not be straightforward with his emotions. Here he sounds more vague and confused, which is how I think someone would react to having romantic feelings for the first time in over 200 years.
Hello, darling! I'd just like to say - finding your channel and its unabashed love for Astarion has been a shining light in my life of late. I've. . .had to hide and smother my reactions and commentary on Astarion in my own friend groups given how a lot of people in them seem to think he's boring or just downright dislike him. Finding you was a moment in which I realized I wasn't alone - in my admiration for Astarion and Neil. Speaking of - while I don't have a lot of pocket change, I would pay good money to see you interview Neil about Astarion and Baldur's Gate 3! I know you both are busy people, and Selune only knows that Neil has been doing a slew of interviews for the Baldur's Gate 3 press junket. But - your take on this game is something special, and I feel that if you ever interviewed Neil on his part in it, that would be something no less special. Thank you for all you do! ♥
Thank you so much! I do know how that feels because there was a time when I used to crush so hard on Alistair from DAO and had literally nobody to talk to about it! I don't know what made me decide to make that first Astarion video so many years ago.. but I'm glad I did because it's been nice to be able to gush with other fans :) And believe me, I would LOVE to interview him, but I have had no luck in contacting him. I've tried his agents and get no response. I'm not sure what the best way to contact him is and I'm thinking those other places getting interviews probably have more subs and better connections than me. I did try again recently through a different service he uses, so maybe I'll get some luck there.. By all means, send him a tweet or something and let him know you'd like to see this happen.. it might help! :)
You're very welcome! And I get that completely - that was me crushing on Cullen in DAI, and having no one to talk to but my poor brother, lol! (Before all that nastiness with his VA, of course.) And I will do my best! I don't have much of a platform on Twitter myself, but I will absolutely shoot Neil a tweet or comment on one of his Twitch streams if I can!
I like the other scene more too because in the confession Scene he said that the nights were already part of his problem to fell in love. He implys that the protection idea was before the first night.
He's been Broken for so long. His PTSD is so sad. He made me love him, and feel for him. His sincerity coming thru, is so refreshing. Because in Reality people find it too hard to express and even share deeper ugly feelings, that make us seem weak, and we are our own worst Critt's, we don't need more, from people who can't understand what it is to be PTSD suffers at all. Astarion's Traumatic past Was not just mind manipulation, it was every torture that a unfeeling beast can inflict insesantly on a victimized creation of theirs, as Starry was. He has a need to constantly have his defenses up, because he doesn't ever want to return to the Abuse, he was forced to endure, being treated no better then a obedient puppet, for the CZarr Vampire Famil' he was subjected, and used by Caz and other's. In fact I think Raphael might have known the Angelic Starry, as the S**slave he was also forced to be. As Starry himself tells TAV that he never wants to return to the Kennels, or Boudoir's in Cazador's palace again. As you play BG³ you can hear Astarion *DON'T TOUCH ME.* And other lines like careful I bite. Which we dismiss as Vampy talk. More like It's what YOU WANT?¿ Isn't it¿? Breaks me... Because he's clearly not into your, TAV nor Can he understand what TAV wants, not because he doesn't want to, but because he only feels he has to repeat motions to please her, in order to get what he needs from her, because he's so broken. I think seeing him standing, there shirtless enjoying the warm caress, of the new greeting dawn, and comforting dappled suns soft kisses, as a blessed feeling for him, not to have to be on the ground with our poor, lonely questioning TAV. Till we hear where his strange Scars came from. Starry is more then defensive when it comes to the torrment those strange markings have caused him, no mere tatt. And no innocent Artfully created poem. The markings is why Starry tells TAV that he made many revisions, in the corse of one night... Starry is the means to an end. For his Mentor, and Tormentor. The father figure, of the Zarr fam. A Dick Tator, who demands Starry to be consumed by a Demonic Ritual, or take Casadors place, and Ascend instead of Cas. Only to become Cas . 2 A unfeeling power hungery Monster, that wants what he wants, and he wants TAV to get down on her knees and worship the new Vampire god, and for her to become his Vampy Spawn. 😮💥❤️🩹💥🗡️🗡️ Ok, so TAV basically killed Starry, and made an even worse Tyranical vane Monster in place of Casador Czarr... (Of course it will make me a Monster¿) Undo it, un do it!!🦑🦠🕷️🕷️🕸️ Just as bad as a Mind flayer, only beautiful. But his honeyed dripped words tinge with possessive promises. And as much as we want to submit, this Starry knows it, and now isnt against taking anything he desires, at the cost of TAV becoming his forever obedient puppet... Perfect, no such thing. And he started out in fear of being Manipulated controled and Abused again. By a Monster, if you decide to help Ascend him, in hopes of freeing him completely, you will be making a big mistake, for him and your TAV. Because broken down, completely shattered Starry, is hard to see, but better. Because he still has good in him, not Conquest, but salvation, and he may be numb, after doing away with the creature that demeaned and made him suffer other indignanties. Now he can start a new. And he's only Thankful, and tho he has to return to the shadows, and give up the Sun forever. He still realizes that TAV did free him, and saved him from himself. It's not only growth for the character, it's a Revelation that he can be better, and so much more, then the bastard, who made him, now he turns to TAV ready to no matter what, he wants to live again. And he wouldn't be able to without the one who believes in him... I love that, so much more gratifying then Ascended Ass Tarion. He's still wonderful yet broken, but he is also humble, and endearing, still a Vampy Spawn, but still our Amazing Starry. Our lovely light. Protective, and sweet Starry. Thank the gods✨🧝🏻♀️✨❤️🩹🗡️ Thank U @MmOGurl ❤️🩹🗡️🗡️ 🩸 Some people don't care about people who suffer hardships todaze. But we are all in need of something. Larian has given us all something wonderful we can understand better then others what is to feel, *Don't touch me. You mean me harm. I don't trust, as well as I used to. Starry let's us all see the pain and anguish we all disguise. Abandonment, issues are very Real as well as other perspectives, that make us all turn to hiding, surpressing, who we are. Astarion's (lil Star.✨) Glee at being gifted his freedom, from the Eville he faced, as well as being able to walk in the morning sun, as well as look up at the stars in camp, enter peoples homes, what Rogue wouldn't want to? But it turns out he's so much more then we surmised. And like most of us, he is only thankful, to have TAV not only accept him, but trust and love him, for who he is and can be. 💖🛡️💖An anti Loyal hero, for all of Faerunn, and TAV❤️🩹🧝🏻♀️❤️🩹Starry is too incredible. And Real people should only be as accepting and thoughtful, and kind. *Oh, You mean pet bunny's, and the like?* 🐇🐇🐇 He just jests with us, because he like's TAV. He won't admit it to her yet. After he threatens TAV Because we haven't killed the Orthon, yet. It's funny how TAV makes him eat humble pie with a whipped topping. *Hmm¿! Oh¿ I'm sorry, please forgive me¿*Can we please go now¿..* By far best, funny tragic Character in the game. And if any of us could hug Starry, we would, no question. With the uncertain future, for us all in the balance, A Child abuse, unwanted foster kid, Car crash surviver, domestic abuse Survivor, PTSD suffer, and Survivor, among other abuses, Divorced, Abandonment survivor. My best support and best friend had been taken and mde unemployed by the very Government who had trained, and approved her to care for me. BG³ is a escape, as a self taught writer, artist, preformer. Dancer, singer more, I feel for the world, we all have to share, and very much have to be thankful for all that we get, no matter what. And help one another, because someone needs help no matter what. Blessings sent. And thank U for these Video Back stories about my fav Game Character of all time Probably. Starry is so layered and broken, he feels unloved, and he has no trust or knows how to love back. Like many of us we feel used up, and given up on thru life. But we all have to keep living. Because we know we can be so much better, then what they made us, think we should be. And Todaze Starry just makes me cry, n smile, and feel.❤️🩹🧝🏻♀️❤️🩹 Starry Approves.❤️🩹 And he's finally, happy. 🧝🏻♀️❤️🩹
I very much prefer the confession before meeting Araj, as this one feels so much less impactful, especially if Tav and Astarion are supposed to be romantically involved. But this option is much more fitting if you're not romancing Astarion, as it feels far more platonic. Like a good conversation between friends. Or at the very least like your feelings for one another (if indeed in a relationship) aren't very deep.
Yeah, but it's weird too because he still can talk about seducing you and how it was easy if you pick that one option.. so it's kind of a weird.. romanced/platonic thing going on. Original is definitely my favorite.. it was so potent emotionally ;)
@Mmogurl it might have been shoe horned in for players who talk to her first before getting the other scene/confession. I would have liked this as a separate thing, and still get the confession for romanced players.
WOW! Now I have a mission for my second playthrough. Acutally I missed Araj on my first one - but that's okay, because I wanted to play the game a second time anyway :) Astarion is such a well written character. This game really gives you the feeling that every character had a life before this, but Astarion is really special. Toxic relationships of any kind are wrong and no one deserves that.
I'm going through multiple times and playing with class combinations. I play DnD so it let's me experiment and really get to know the class features. Favourite so far has been a 6/6 sorcerer/paladin split.
you need a dark urge playthrough with astarion romance on it. the dynamic is really good the original scene is still wild to me because ive done 3 playthroughs and NEVER have seen it. ive always gotten the 2nd one, this drow one.
If you "convince" him to sleep with you anyway during this scene, (Evil Tav!) the conversation afterwards is rather devastating. He realizes that you treat him just like everyone else and don't even consider his feelings or desires. He breaks it off, but it seems really clear that he had hope in "whatever this could have been." It was painful to watch, I hated it and yet deeply appreciated it for the nuance and depth of his character. I replayed this scene over and over trying to decide which route I wanted to take officially, because each of the more caring options seems to give you a different peek into his vulnerability, or extends that moment of connection. I continue to be so impressed and delighted by the characters, their dialogue, delivery, and the complexity of your relationships both platonic and romantic. They did such an amazing job.
I had a scene like that when I wasn't romancing him at all (first playthrough I went for Gale). I didn't force him to bite the drow and he thanked me for that. It used many of the same lines, even.
I so wish that if you were romancing him they would combine both versions of this scene together, otherwise... I do like the version before meeting Araj more. Like the after Araj scene is nice but it does feel weird he doesn't mention his manipulation upfront and when you do probe for it, it's less emotional and raw
The cult dialogue changes slightly depending on how evil or good your character is. It has the same outcome, but things are approached differently. When I got the cult he was exceptional towards me so it was more of him relating to me. It may be dark urge specific but idk.
I defended him from Araj on a platonic playthrough and the scene was a lot more underwhelming compared to a romance. He does thank you for standing up to him, but he's much less vulnerable about it and mostly seems angry/cynical talking about how he just seduced targets for Cazador, 'most of them didn't even grant him temporary bliss,' he doesn't have to be like that now, etc. I get why he's less intimate with a friend than he is with his lover who he's trying to confess his true self/good intentions too, but also given how much Astarion's story is tied up in sexual abuse, it kind of sucks that being platonic with him to start gives you less than romancing him. But maybe I just haven't unlocked the rest of the platonic scene yet?
It almost seems like the two confession scenes (of seducing you and then realizing he fell for you) should be switched. I almost feel like someone allowing you to make your own choice when it's something you were never allowed to do would warrant the scene where he's a bit more earnest and breaking a bit more, but that's just me.
7:43 Thank you. You really just, dictate thoughts so well, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos/content for this very reason. You hit such a big nail on the head. It's really satisfying to hear someone just, get the idea I can't articulate well so clearly said.
It's interesting how scenes can affect people differently. The scene that takes place after meeting the drow was more impactful for me. Maybe because throughout early access what I wanted most was to earn his trust. I would say the first scene (that takes place before the drow encounter) is a lot more romantic. It's more about his developing romantic feelings for you than the second scene, which is more about his developing trust in you based on the way you've treated him. I think the fact that you've helped him to realize how the trauma he endured affected him and that he deserves better, and that he felt comfortable and safe enough to share that with you so openly was more rewarding for me. His admission in both scenes that he was trying to manipulate you through seduction because he needed protection wasn't hurtful to me because it's always been how I interpreted his character and his motivations. For 200 years he was forced to use sex and his body to remain "safe" from Cazador and his torture. He's still operating in the same way because it's the only thing he knows. As a player I hoped to be able to let him feel safe enough for a real bond to develop, so the second scene meant more to me even though it was less romantic in the traditional sense. Like you I got the scene before the drow encounter first. And because I had always believed he was trying to manipulate your feelings romantically I didn't fully trust the confession. I thought it might be another tactic even though I hoped it wasn't. If I had gotten the less romantic scene first I would have been less suspicious. It's also interesting that a lot of people interpret the first scene as more vulnerable because it was the opposite for me.
Same here - only without the early access experience. The drow aftermath scene felt so much more sincere for me because 1: it played into my ongoing story so well(with a chaotic-good rogue TAV who had a fling with him but was already romancing Gale too) and 2: because you can actually see him being in conflict with the person he was made to be and person he can now become. The other romance confession feels so way too soft for me, like a perfect performance from him and I would have been also even more sus about him if I see that first. In my playthrough, his approval was neutral all the way during the previous scenes since I played a good character and only the deceptions and some small stuff gained his approval, and for me it was pretty obvious he was playing Tav from the start - but I infiltrated Moonrise right at the start of Act 2, so a lot of the other personal scenes with him came after this. When I broke up with Gale to choose him he also had a little extra scene too(that also hit really hard for me personally) and that kicked my approval right up to the high alley. Also, it was hilarious cause Gale's tent was right next so the drama levels were high. Overall, it was very nice to see you can romance him and build this special relationship with him even with a good aligned(not counting all the deception cause what else should a rogue do) character, kinda showing him how to be naughty and good at the same time lol
Yeah I always have him at very good/exceptional approval by the end of act 1 playing a completely good character. You just have to be kind to him and funny/fun in general. But I played EA a lot so I know most of the approval checks for the companions and I'm sure that helps. @@abigailh8214
There's no scene after the drow if you've already gotten the alternate romance start. So you just miss out on all this dialogue. I'm glad I got to see both by replaying.@@lammylamtama
This is the scene I got, and I quite liked it tbh. Have not yet gotten the other scene since this is my first time romancing him, but I was so happy because I felt like I was making great progress with him after this conversation ☺️☺️ I absolutely adore how "soft" he becomes after this when speaking to you, thus far he's my absolute favourite romance in the game, with Halsin being a close second.p
How he says "a moment of disgust and then I would have forced myself through", because in my opinion, that's similar to what happened in our sex scene. I don't think he was super disgusted, but that feeling, even slightly was probably still there. Especially the next morning, when our character has the choice of asking him if there's something wrong and telling him that he didn't look that much into it the night before. The idea of him feeling like a means to an end, is very relatable for many, because we all once had a friend who used us, someone who stopped talking to us when they understood we as a person "didn't fit" their standards, or when you're really happy of doing something for someone and that person only sees you like a pushover and takes advantage of your kindness. Some of these happened to me and it hurts a lot, especially if you're young and you grow up with these kinds of situations, continuously happening to you.
i didnt get this scene but i still really like it. I got his romance scene as it is before encountering Araj and depending on your options in that one, he doesnt volunteer as much information about his relationship with Cazador. Like i reloaded the initial romance scene a few times to get different options and unless im misremembering, in one series of choices he doesnt rly mention how Cazador used him whereas in the scene in the video he straight up tells you everything unprompted. Still, im amazed with the complexity of the dialogue branches in this game. In other similar games you sorta circle back and can select all the available options from a conversion but in bg3 you can miss out on so much if you dont pick certain choices. Another example: during the encounter with Araj i didnt chose the "I thought youd jump at the opportunity" option so i completely missed the bit about her blood being weird. And now im reading the comments in this video and people are sharing what other dialogue other choice will trigger and wow!!!! There is just so much of this game in every conceivable way!
This is legit why I wouldn't want to play a gnome, halfling or dwarf in BG3 (despite having played them in my 30 years of tabletop D&D) because it makes the romance scenes with the companions look... weird. Same goes for a Dragonborn character smooching a companion; thankfully the game devs did figure out a way to prevent the snout from clipping into the companion's face so there has to be a different distance for Dragonborn character head models from the companion head model during kissing scenes than for humanoid head models. but a Dragonborn body model is so bulky it still clips during the hugging scene. Otherwise as a biologist I would be all over playing as a Dragonborn because they look gorgeous. (I went with Tiefling instead, love those horns.) Sadly I never found an Eberron group back when Dragonborn were first introduced in d20 D&D 3E for the Eberron setting (which also is where Warforged originated from before they were inserted into other D&D worlds by WotC), because our campaigns are set in ol' Greyhawk or in self-designed worlds.
I'm just going to state that I've had far better and healthier relationships with fictional characters than most real life people. Just like picking up a favourite book is like going on an adventure with old friends, dating a pixel man can be healthy too. It can help you explore emotions and your own experiences without the risk of real time (or real in general) consequences or backlash from other people. So, to all you fictosexuals out there, cheers. Keep on keepin on. ❤
In other youtube videos, I found out that you still can get the lines about Tav been incredible and deserving something real. The condition is not to talk with Drow and (maybe) have approval higher than 90.
It's wild that Astarion's romance has helped me figure out what real love is supposed to feel like. It's ridiculous because he's a video-game character! I've always just gaslit myself into dating people who were practical choices because they were kind and dependable. I relate to his character so much. How he struggled with abuse and agency, the facade he puts up with vulnerability underneath. Then his zesty spirit, vanity, and devotion made for the perfect cocktail. He's stolen my heart. I want to find someone in life to love wholeheartedly who will make my heart burst with passion and adoration.
See I’ve just had this scene (finally can play on PS5) and I saw your first video so was expecting that but when I got this one and had Astarion tell me it was easy to seduce me and have no remorse in his voice and just brush it off like it was nothing (unlike the first video) it broke my heart. It’s so hard for me to trust him now and I keep thinking he’s still using me. I don’t understand how you can do the same thing yet get two drastically different dialogs. Seen a comment saying apparently this scenes happens in platonic relationships that’s why so I’d like to think they’d fix it so you get the first one with a romance no matter when you meet Araj as it makes a big difference in how Astarion comes across
@meillyn9059 that’s exactly how I feel like I’m just now playing this game I didn’t reach this scene yet but him casually talking about how easy it was to manipulate and deceive you and brushed it aside like he was talking about the weather rubbed me the wrong way I guess do to it hitting a cord with me. I had friends use and manipulate and then get upset with me when I opened my eyes to what they were doing and cut ties it’s hard to feel like “oh he’s so romantic sweet and touching” after he just admitted to saying how easy it was to fool me into doing what he wanted for his own benefit. Like how am I suppose to believe you now moving forward? Now every time you open your mouth to whisper “sweet nothings” to me I’m going see it as another tactic of manipulation on your part it was just hurtful to hear like Mmogurl was saying and I just don’t feel confident in pursuing him. I already went to and build a bit of a bond with Gale because I vibed more with him and he’s a bit of a book nerd like me 😅lol but I’m not sure about being with Astarion 😔 .
@@iofororox1801 tbh after doing two playthroughs now romancing Astarion I don’t like him as a romance until after the end of his quest and if you don’t ascend him. Then he becomes completely different and very lovely but up until that point it is always manipulation. I hate the fact we the players and our character can’t call him out on it either. There’s one dialog option where you can actually do this and it’s along the lines of “your manipulative, controlling, abusive, everything you claimed to hate in Cazador” but you only get this line if you’re breaking up with an ascended Astarion. I wish we could have the option to healthily and kindly point this out to him in the hopes we’d see a change in his attitude when he realises what he’s becoming. Astarion is one of those characters where they’ve sadly experienced abuse but gone down the route of becoming another abuser not becoming better.
@@meillyn9059 thanks for the info meillyn it’s so funny because when I was looking at people’s comments in other forums like Reddit about astarion’s romance play through and oooh boy 😖 it was a bit toxic and too overwhelming and I just decided not to get involved lol but your info and insight was really helpful, I think on my first play through I’ll romance Gale and then astarion on my 2nd run I’m a bit worried I might have locked myself out of Gale’s romance due to messing up the first weave scene 🤦🏾♀️.
This is the scene you get if the approval doesn't rise fast enough or if he isn't romanced at all (with some variations). Maybe that's why he seemes less emotional?
But he was romanced and at exceptional.. the only difference was that I hopped down to moonrise before sleeping and met with Araj.. but otherwise the original scene shows if I go to bed on the same night xD
@@MmogurlI think they mean that players can get this scene even if their relationship with Astarion is platonic and not that high. It has a more ambiguous feel to it because your relationship with him can either be romantic OR platonic at this point, whereas you only get the original confession scene you posted if you're romantically involved with him.
Yeah, that's how I got to progress his romance, because I was struggling with approval earlier. I'm still okay with it - for me, it feels like an organic growth where he realized I respect him as a person, and (in my head canon) he felt safe to have feelings for my character.
I got this scene in my playthrough and I went through all of the choices, the bad choices are just heartbreaking. You can choose the "...throw yourself at me." option and still get the "good" end, it's worth it too because of his response.
This scene is so intense. I saved right before so I could try the bad answers. And I chose the throw yourself at me response without reading it lol. I reloaded quickly after that. It’s the ultimate douchey line, I felt so bad, but there is the worse one.
Man, now I'm worried. I got the first confession scene before Araj and then later went to moonrise. I went with the "you don't have to do anything you don't want to but it would be helpful" and his approval didn't dip much and I can still trigger the "lets talk about us" dialogue and he's positive. I'm worried that somewhere down the line this choice will have consequences I can't see.
I had him drink her blood by choice since the potion is too worth it. It made sense for my Tav to let him pick, he decided to do it anyways (although reluctantantly). He said forcing himself to do something made him realize that he didnt want Tav to just see him as another body. It was such an intense and vulnerable scene
Would it be possible to get both? Do the go to sleep, get the first scene you had - then go see the Drow and get this scene after? Makes me wonder now and might try that this playthrough.
It would depend on what you get up to before leaving the first time. After breaking out the teiflings and minthara, I left and avoided the place like the plague before going back to a hornet's nest I had kicked.
I selected friend not a lover as i just felt that was what the character needed based on passed experiences but will do another play through and romance to the end with him maybe as dark urge
In my current game, he and my character isn't romanticly involved - he's still flirty sometimes, but she "spoils his fun", as he puts it. I'm hoping for that fun Raphael scene (that I won't spoil for you, because I think you should see it for yourself, in another playthrough). Can't wait to see how my character reacts to it. LOOOOOL!
I'm just starting a Astarion romance playthrough and my RP my Tav will be extremely jealous and protective of the idea that he her Astarion would be forced to bite some other gurl.
You talking about beating yourself up, 'A means to an end'... it doesn't have to be anything to do with love in that aspect. It could be in a job too, being taken advantaged of for a job you do well or the fact that you can't really leave that job because its hard to find another for you for one reason or another...
I got the second one and it fit with my Tav's relationship with him more? Idk how to describe it but I liked that they finally figured out oh wow I really like this person at the same time. My Tav and him slept with each other for different reasons and then both caught feelings as the story moved on 😂. It was cuter that way especially when you ask him what does Us mean and he sounds like a giddy teenager liking the sound of that. I'm going to rerun it with this Tav again and see what else i can find
When I see people make him bite her in their playthroughs, I want to cry. He hates it so much, and in my opinion, it is never worth the strength boost.
Holy crap my save file is glitched 😭 I had a romance scene with wyll, didn’t know it would trigger his relationship with him so both Gale and Astarion had something to say to me but only one of them triggered. For curiosity’s sake, I chose Gale then did Astarion’s dialogue but it disappeared. I went into camp to break up with Wyll but then he now thinks I chose Astarion over him??? 😭😭😭 what is happening
If you skip a confession scene or miss it.. they will think you automatically broke up with them for someone else. I had this happen with Gale once when I was experimenting around with these scenes.
this is the scene i got and i by far like the other one better, unfortunately i had no idea about the change and had progressed too far to justify loading an old save;;;; im still early ish in act 3 so i could still go back and catch up to where i am in a few hours...
Hi everyone! Does anyone know if I choose option 2 ("maybe you need a friend and not a lover"), whether there's still a chance to romance Astarion? I like that response, but from the scene and his response, I can't tell if it might close off the possibility of a romance.
Can someone tell me if it's a bug or intendet - I had the other confession scene, and even though we met Araj, he never even mentioned her. I understand I wouldn't get the scene in the video, but I hoped that I would get an alternative dicussion about the situation, since it seems so important to him. 🤔
hey, thanks for breaking it down! I got this romance scene & I've got a question. Do I keep the romance going when I chose the "Maybe what you really need is a friend, not a lover" option?
My friend made me have that scene and I didn’t get his confession at all, and he made me say the wrong thing and now he’s at medium because he doesn’t like Astorian which is annoying
Omg lmao I don’t want him to bounce and leave me, that would be so heartbreaking. Is the reason people get that cause his level isn’t maxed out or high enough?
I have no idea because it hasn't happened to me! I am not at super high approval with him in my druid game, so I will get a chance to see how approval affects it soon.
As far as i know it doesn't matter if your approval is exceptional or not, if you encounter Araj than this scene will be triggered. It also did not affected the romance going foward, it will be the same as if you had gotten he first confession. At least that is what happened to me
Guys I have a question ! I have high approval from him since act 1 (and slept with him... twice in theory) but i have no romance scene at all in act 2. Not even this one. What did I miss on my run ? I need answer, its my second one and i only play it to romance Astarion XD
I defended him from the drow. I did some stuff and then I long rested and never got this dialog. Nothing I do will trigger the scene and idk what to do anymore
It's likely you can. I've seen other people say they could get it later on.. but in my case I was at exceptional pretty early on in Act1 because I've been romancing Astarion for a very long time in early access. Makes it much easier to know what to do for approval.
I got this scene too and I was somewhat disappointed because from watching others videos I knew this scene could be more romantic :( We still hugged, and it was sweet, but I wonder if I did something wrong. How do you trigger the other scene instead of this one? Was my approval not high enough?
For the second time I didn't get the scene without Araj! I waited, but no. How do you get the scene without meeting her? Approval was really high at this point anyway
![Astarion Really Hates All of My Choices at the Circus - Act 3 Romance [ Release Version BG3 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/burpEX83c0w/mqdefault.jpg)
![Astarion Really Hates All of My Choices at the Circus - Act 3 Romance [ Release Version BG3 ]](/img/tr.png)
![Why You Need To Find This NPC If You're Romancing Astarion in Act 2 [ Launch BG3 ] #baldursgate3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YVTagFnK4vs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Astarion's Revelation Romance Scene - Part 3 in Act 2 [ Release Version BG3 ] #baldursgate3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I1izTfFLQ4k/mqdefault.jpg)
The reason why it's less intimate and it doesn't have the same options as the romance one is because you can have this scene without romancing him. It can be a friendly conversation and you can even hug him and hold hands as a friend.
I would pay for DLC that had scenes where I could give all the companions a hug at some point. The Astarion hug scene was so wonderful.
I would too!
That's so cute, I love it
Seriously, these people all need candy, a hug (platonic or otherwise), and years of therapy. I'd kill to be able to give gifts/trinkets to my companions, even if it doesn't affect their approval I just want to give them all little things and see how they react.
@@dittoroxursox1o1 I did see a youtube clip of someone giving an idol of shar to shadowheart. you could try that.
Folks saying this wasn’t as emotional, and here I was tearing up at the whole conversation lol
I was spoiled by the other scene, but there were definitely parts in this one that were high emotion.. like the means to an end part I pointed out.
@Mmogurl I got this scene first, because I am a ravening completist (something I'm actually really regretting for BG3, as it has hugely restricted my desire to replay because I would have to make so many fundamentally different choices that I, personally, would not be comfortable making in order to see anything different. Whereas if there were bits I simply hadn't seen and explored, I could play a similar persona and still have a different game) and had found and interacted with Araj. And even despite choosing the "So why sleep with me?" option here so getting the admission and then confession of complications, having now seen the non-Araj scene several times via various clips that one is so, so, so much better and more emotional. This one was cute, and touching, but doesn't give you as deep insight into Astarion (which you still get through later scenes and interactions, if you're following his "good" romance in fairness) and doesn't expose his vulnerability as openly.
Definitely wishing I'd gotten this one on my "canon" playthrough. But hey, maybe I'll reload that whole playthrough very early on and just do another run with that same Tav, only.....different 😉
I found Astarion's line "A moment of disgust to force myself through. And then I could have carried on, just like before." pretty gut-wrenching. Not only does it imply between the lines that he _thought_ he could force himself through and then repress the disgust as he had done before but then he found it didn't work. You can _hear_ the unsaid "but..." hanging in the air at the end of his sentence. And him talking so matter-of-factly about it means he acknowledges that he became numb to it. I wouldn't call it "blasé" so much as "resigned to his fate". He couldn't afford to have too many feelings about it or he'd go absolutely insane.
I think both scenes are good for different reasons. This demonstrates and solidifies that your respect him as a person, care for him and his freedom, and won't just use him for your needs. The other scene demonstrates and solidifies Astarian's guilt, vulnerability, and flustering that he was going to use you for his needs but he can't in good conscience because he likes you. In an ideal world, we'd be able to get the best of both, but perhaps the scene would run for too long, haha.
I like this distinction - both are great, but I think they'll hit differently for people with different experiences. Seeing Astarion really dig it when you respect his agency was amazing for me - I've never seen that before in this type of game, and I love it.
The scene on her previous video is if you are romancing him. This scene is part of his normal personal quest and you can get it and be friends with him, its more like a higher affection scene if you have high approval but you arent flagged for romance
I got this scene, and it won me over to the depth of Astarion's romance - that they really are showing the psychological impacts of abuse). I had a feeling something was up based on his reaction to my respecting his agency in the scene with Araj (it's a sign that he hasn't had agency or choice in his past and accepted that). Whenever he seems surprised (asking the color of his eyes, respecting his "no"), it's a sign that we're touching on something big for him. I want to get the first scene you got, but I still appreciated this one.
Insightful comment. On reflection you did not fall into the trap of complimenting his looks, thank you for sharing!
Mate could you share how to get this interaction? I am in act 2 and got to moon rower with druids and they have started assault but I haven’t met this character Arja yet :(
@@radayar Hi! Sorry, but you'll need to meet her before you start the assault. You can enter the tower and walk around freely - everyone will be neutral to you then. Araj is just off the kitchen area. Good luck!
@@domenceuspriest thanks for reply guess this will be my second play through path as I am so far into tower already 🥲
@@radayar You got this! I'm gearing up for a second playthrough to catch all the things I missed.
My immediate reaction to the drow scene was to protect him. If someone I care about doesn't want to do something they don't have to do it. The fact he thanked me and thought getting a choice wasn't an option was heartbreaking.
Actually you can still get a confession from him about using you in the beginning. At 2:07, where you picked "That would've been wrong", if you choose "So why sleep with me? Did you think you'd get something from it?" he says that he did it for protection - to have you protect him from the prejudice of others - but then admits the same thing, that he unexpectedly fell for you.
Thank you for this comment, cleared it up for me. I got this scene, and was debating reloading 5 h, but now I am sure I dont have to. So thanks! I’ll just make sure to have this scene in my next pt 😆🤩
Thank you so much!
I could see how Astarion's demeanor changes depending on the drow interaction. I, too, prefer the first confession because he's so vulnerable and brave laying out his whole heart to Tav, especially considering his admitting how he lied to you. He's putting himself in a vulnerable position to be possibly kicked out, etc. Maybe after sticking up for him, it emboldens him, and he trusts even more than before, so he's not shaking in his boots as much.
The first confession is so much more open and honest. I 100% agree about the vulnerability, as he's putting himself out there in such a big way.
Also, now that I'm thinking about it. I think I saw that the Araj aftermath scene plays for a platonic/friendship route too so maybe it doesn't feel as vulnerable because they had to shoehorn the romance in there in case the other scene didn't play? Idk the romance flags are very interesting for release at least.
yeah exaclty! See, I think her point makes a lot of sense because in this case he had a jumping-off point. There was already a topic/excuse to start the conversation, so it's easier. It's what I'd always wait for when wanting to talk about deep/meaningful/important stuff with others just so it'd make it easier/more comfortable to begin.
Whereas in the other one, it's ALL him with the equivalent of pulling it outta his ass outta nowhere, and he's just gotta be vulnerable and real and so very confused and feeling too much and just DO IT.
So I 100% get the vibe she was describing.
I can totally see this being the why as well.@@dejat.4407
If you choose the option of asking him if that's why he slept with you it triggers a dialogue similar to that one, I prefer this one since if you chose that one option it still shows that he became honest about using you but falling for you int he process and then he gets to feel what consent is
I slightly prefer the other one, but I really wish we could get both scenes because they're both so good. I really enjoy how seriously the writing takes Astarion's trauma and his feelings. It's like "yes, this is a game, have fun, but it is a roleplaying game and if you treat this very vulnerable character like he's an object you will be called out for it." I'm thinking of how if you made him drink from her he says 'there's nothing in the world as desirable as a vampire, is there?' And how if you pressured him into sex he says 'this is a game to you.' It's not fourth-wall breaking exactly, but it's in that territory and I love it.
"I really enjoy how seriously the writing takes Astarion's trauma and his feelings."
Agreed. There are interviews online, on YT and PCGamer magazine, with Neil Newbon the voice actor and with the Larian writer who worked on Astarion's story and dialogue, and they both said they wanted to treat this with the utmost respect. I think it's clever that the writers used the D&D setting to their advantage by making Astarion a High Elf (who live up to 750 years), because it means they could concentrate on the horrors of being a _vampire spawn_ and helpless thrall to a vampire, instead of repeating the standard tropes of vampire stories: becoming a vampire to be immortal, then finding out it sucks, the ennui of living forever while the world around you changes etc.
Astarion would have had many centuries of natural lifespan in front of him had he not being turned into a vampire. He accepted Cazador's offer to turn him because he wanted revenge on his murderers, and because the alternative was bleeding to death in an alley. The game leaves it unclear how old he was as an elf when he was turned, but there's a line from him I've seen that implies he was around 100 years old (young adulthood for an elf)[*], because he says "I know I don't look a day over 100 years old, but..." that occurs if the player is romancing Astarion while playing as the Dark Urge and Astarion finds out the Dark Urge is a Bhaalspawn. Astarion says he remember when the Bhaalspawn were last active in Baldur's Gate 100 years ago (referencing the events of Baldur's Gate 2 game) and that he was already a fledgeling vampire spawn back then.
[*] Though frankly I think Astarion looks the equivalent of 30-something, with the creases next to his mouth etc. But trauma does that to people. And I assume his hair became grey-white due to stress (does your hair still grow when you're an undead vampire spawn?) and that he _used_ to have dark hair... because I've seen old footage from early Early Access versions from 2020 where Astarion hair still was peppered with black hair strands.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog he was actually only 39 when he was turned, according to his tombstone :(
@@TF2CrunchyFrogActually if you romance him, and don't ascend, the Act 3 romance scene gives you his exact age. He was 39 when turned by Cazador.
I agree that the first confession felt more emotional, but I like this one, him realizing you won't make him do something he does not want to do is a turning point in the relationship. Also, I got the second confession and it didn't affect the romance going foward
I was hurt the first time hearing him say seducing you was easy but after hearing it a couple times, I don’t think he means you’re easy. I think it’s more so him relying on his skills he built up from years of charming people to their doom. He thought it would turn out similarly.
Or that it was easy for him rather than easy to do because he was actually attracted to Tav, and maybe didn't have to force himself. If you ask if he was attracted to you in the other scene, He'll say "of course, you're a vision." That said my char didn't take any persuasion to have spicy fun time with him.
If you sleep with him a 2nd time in act 1 and he says "what if i said these three little words: everyone's favourite. I love you" and his approval is high enough his whole expression changes. Your reply will trigger a response that hints at the truth. My approval was in the 90s by the teifling party (we had some giggles and walking in on the bugbear and the ogre will always be funny, as will his reaction to the sunlance and a building falling on him).
What's the shame in jumping at the chance to sleep with a man you're attracted to? Like ofc its easy, why wouldn't it be?
@@paperdreamer2043 I was thinking that too - that he thought it was easy to do, because he thought you were attractive to begin with.
I got this scene first cause I accidentally stumbled on Araj looking for vendors, and I didn't know how important the scene was at the time. I actually chose 'Maybe you need a friend and not a lover' because as an asexual, that just ...I dunno, made sense to me. Which meant I didn't go through the 'I care about you' to even see there was a stay together but not have 'honks' option. When I went back later to try other options, having an option to be in a relationship without sex caused me to burst out crying, because you just don't see that as an option...like anywhere. It's amazing how Astarion's storyline can mean so much to so many different people.
Had you chosen to make him bite the drow, this scene serves as his way of telling you that he's "woken up" and realized he's allowed to say no. He proceeds to then break up with you becuase you willingly forced him into doing something he clearly wasn't comfortable with.
That being said, I definitely agree that this scene seems out of place in a romance line. I highly prefer the default scene you get prior to meeting the drow. He's so much more emotionally vulnerable, almost feeling ashamed that he has feelings for you but knows deep down you're worth it. He's just terrified to have any autonomy whatsoever, even when it comes to what he desires. As much as it scares him, he's finally admitted to himself that he at least wants to try and take your partnership to the next level. I really, really love in the default scene that you can tell him that you don't have to sleep together anymore until he's ready. It just seems way more intimate than this one.
Yeah I might have to experiment with that drow a bit more in my next game.. or maybe go back and try some alternatives once I'm done. I definitely like the original scene more though.. it's just so much better on all fronts.
Yes, I've seen people on Reddit wondering why this whole interaction is such a big scene and why Astarion complains afterwards even if you choose "It's up to you, but that potion sounds very useful". They thought they gave him a choice and he gave in and decided to bite her so why is he complaining still?
I tried to explain to them that there's a difference between respecting his disgust and giving him the choice to say "no", versus emotionally blackmailing him to "take one for the team" by basically telling him "Hey, dude, I hear you, _but..._ y'know that potion is super-useful", putting pressure on him to agree while pretending it's his choice.
By doing the latter you're telling him you value a legendary potion more than his well-being and his agency and that're okay with using him to get the potion.
You can tell him you don't have to sleep together in this one as well. I just hate having to choose between that and the hug :(
That moment when your character hugs him... it's seems to be a look of serenity, almost a moment of angelic peace. The moment when he is starting to heal if he chooses to go down that road.
At 6:28, it really makes my heart feel for Astarion. I had an ex that I cared for deeply, she had a lot of issues and I thought if I was with her and I treated her with love and care that I could help her. Turns out I was just being used for sex and she didn’t care much for me. It really hurt, when I was reflecting back on it, I was a means to an end for her. When I heard him say that, it really resonated with me.
Yeah, honestly, it’s sad but a lot of the time, love will never be enough for most people with issues. It would be wonderful and easy if that were the case. But people’s issues can be so deeply ingrained, love couldn’t ever be enough. Sometimes even professional help wouldn’t be enough, but it’s certainly a better and more healthy option. I’m sorry she hurt you, but it’s what’s best for you. It’s not your job to fix her. She’s responsible for her own issues. If she can’t help herself with your support, there’s nothing you could’ve done.
@@SusanaCanales1 I appreciate your kind words. ❤️ This was fortunately many years ago, and I don’t even think of it much anymore. But when he said this line, it reminded me of her.
@@emotionalnpc that’s good. I hope you’re faring well! Yes, they did a really great job with him if he can remind us of people in our own lives or were in our own lives.
I prefer this scene, because it echoes something I've done and had to deal with - being grateful for basic decency after years of abuse. You shouldn't feel that way because it should be expected, but you do, and it's embarrassing and makes your partner incredibly sad for you.
So I don't know if it's a bug, but if you have this "thank you scene" instead of the original one, Astarion's greetings for you change as well. After the long rest, he will start greeting you with "gods you're beautiful" and another one I can't exactly recall atm. But they are just so dro-dead gorgeous the way Neil says them.. And the problem is - this does NOT happen if you had the original confession scene instead! LIke I got spoiled a little to try and find Araj and so I compared both instances - only this mashed-up thank you/confession scene yields the new greetings.
Now I have no idea whether you can still get the new greetings at a later date or something, or if this was a unique thing available after this specific dialogue.. trying to research it doesn't bring up any insights, sadly. If you went with the first confesison scene like me, would you please let me know if these greetings changed for you later on or not? (assuming you're further in the game than I, which seems highly likely as I'm still halfway through MRT atm!).
Cheers,
If you meet the drow before going to the Mausoleum and doing Raphael's task this cancels out the confession, because it pushes the romance forward, and would potentially duplicate the encounter. I suppose you could get both if you went straight back to moonrise after defeating the orthon, but before running the gauntlet but by the time I left moonrise the first time I'd rescued minthara, wulbren and the teiflings and had avoided going back to the metaphorical hornets nest I had kicked until I'd freed Aylin. Also the drow was gone when I went back to finish off Ketheric. I think you get one scene or the other.
Astarion reminds me of a weird mix of Zevran and Fenris from Dragon Age, and Lestat from Interview with a Vampire. Fenris due to having a similar background of being used and abused. They also share hating and being afraid of their tormentors, and both are willing to do just about anything to ensure that they’ll stay free. Zevran due to specific personality traits as both are charming, witty, a tad selfish, and hide behind a front that they wear like a mask. It’s not until you show them patience, understanding, and care whether platonic or romantic that they finally let their guard down and realize that they are more than what The Crows and Cazador made them. And finally Lestat due to both being vampires and also having some personality traits in common, which kind of overlaps with what I said about Zevran.
But if it's out of the four of them who are you choosing 🙃
@@neverlandhunter6988 Fenris will always be my favorite out of the 4 mentioned, but Astarion is a close second.
Hahah so true! And I picked both on DA also, starting to think I have a type lmao! xD
I had a variation of this scene. He admits he used me but then fell for me for real.
This is so true. Astarion's story really hit me so hard and made me cry so much because it truly is representative of not only what abuse is like - but chronic torturous physical, sexual and psychological abuse is like. I suffered such abuse most of my life and all throughout growing up - and his way of thinking even things he SAYS I have SAID before. Or what he prioritizes and feels, his world views. God it is all so accurate.
If you pick option 5, you get a flavor if the normal romance scene. He confesses his intent was to use your character but he’s fallen for them in the process. I personally really like this version with a Dark Urge who’s suppressing their nature romance because of the mutual trust it builds.
If you pick "not interested "?
I kinda like choosing the option of 'So why did you sleep with me?' - His answer comes off as egotistical and acid, but you can tell in the tone of his voice and exaggerated physicality he's bracing himself for rejection. 'Tav couldn't possibly like me if I admit I was using them, I'm going to get a blow in and protect myself'. Then if you go for the hug, it just works beautifully with the sudden shock and relaxation you see in him. It's an emotional rollercoaster for him.
In the first one, he's basically saying that he's willing to put his guard down for you because of his emotional attachments, while in the second one, the trust has already been earned and he feels completely secure around you. Both are powerful in their own ways
Actually try the "as a reward i hoped you would throw yourself at me" - this is in my opinion the most heartbreaking line he ever delivers. Just so you have seen it once. This man just breaks my heart at every turn.
@lidia6372 "I- I'm not sure if I should. I don't think I want you to think of me in terms of sex. I don't know if I want anyone to." If Tav asks then "How do you want me to see you?" he says: "As a person? Would that be so much to ask?". After that it continues on to the option to hug him etc. Neil did a tremendous job in this scene. Sadly I cant find it on youtube there are not many that record all the possible dialogue scenes and this one seems at first lead to a bad outcome. For me it feels more like a Tav that cant read the room and is so used to his constant innuendos and teasing that they think this is the way to go with him.
I think at least from my perspective that Tav might be trying to be as flirty and as Astarion is and it falls flat. Astarion has set the tone of much of the flirting and to me Tav is returning the favor. Unfortunately it falls flat.
@@serenenightful Yeah, totally with you on this one. It follows his earlier tone on flirting. My first Tav was not big on understanding situations like that instantly so she goes with what she thinks is their way of being nice to each other. B/c for her nice Asta means flirty Asta. Yeah, that was a hard conversation, for both of them.
Being in Act 3 now, I've begun to analyze what were the foundations that potentially were used to build the characters of our companions. I have this conclusion that all their stories focus on the concept of lacking freedom and being submissive to something (one way or another). And from all those stories, Astarion's character arc is most dramatic because it's most literal. If you think about that, in our real life he could be portrayed as a victim of human trafficking and any form of abuse (including s***al). That hits hard especially if you consider that this trope is usually "reserved" for female characters...
I actually prefer the second scene, i find it funny he confessed to using Tav in the beginning and how easy it was.
I mean, that dude is too smooth for his own good, cant imagine anyone was surprised he had other intentions with how forward he was 😂
But the revelation that he developed feelings makes me smile because she got under his skin and into his head and that fits better with how ive designed and played Tav.
This game is beautifully detailed and i love how diverse the scenes are with their choices and end results
The writing and performance is just so GOOD and CONSISTENT, I am feasting.
idk if you knew this, but part of why Astarion's storyline (romance or no) h i t s is because, as Neil talked about in a PC Gamer interview, he's actually an abuse survivor himself. If you havent read it yet i can link it, but it was shocking simply because you just don't hear about men's abuse. Actually, men's abuse is often just played for laughs, but this really comes through in how Astarion reacts to various third parties trying to get something from him (mostly through coercion).
It's the skill and sensitivity of this creative team that really SOLIDIFIES "a pixel man's" personhood and separates Astarion out from Another Lil Meow Meow status. Sure, i pike joking around with my roomie and putting Astarion in cute outfits or accidentally blow him up on traps, but underpinning that is a genuine adoration for this character and i think the fact that this is resonating with so many people isn't a mistake.
All the characters suffer in their own ways but helping Astarion through his trauma honestly is the best companion/romance. Especially when you don’t make him the Ascendant.
I agree as well that the scene without meeting Araj is more vulnerable. Neil Newbon’s voice acting is making me feel things! I bought this game because of a good looking pixel man with a seductive voice, I did not expect this emotional investment 🥺
Astarion's response to "How often were you disgusted by your targets" is pretty interesting too. And also sad.
Everyone went for the hug, I let him see my mind because I think this is what can truly reassure someone. We can never truly know people real feeling or thought, but with the tadpole, they can and if I was Astarion how spend his life being control and manipulate, I would rather that than a hug, to be sure it wasn’t a hug with hidden meaning. (If my memories is right, he approves this choice)
I heard something when i was younger that "we see ourselves in the media we consume." I'm sure that has a lot of interpretations, but for me it always struck me as 'the things that I resonate with and enjoy in media/fandom are pieces of me and I should probably analyze why." I felt like that with Astarion when he talked about this additional scene.
Your videos are a great listen. I do hope you examine every companion. The personal stories of each has a core of a desire for freedom that is just so touching.
I plan to eventually get to them all! But I had to romance Astarion first, so he took priority xD
I actually prefer this scene because, too me, it makes more sense for Astarion to not be straightforward with his emotions. Here he sounds more vague and confused, which is how I think someone would react to having romantic feelings for the first time in over 200 years.
Hello, darling! I'd just like to say - finding your channel and its unabashed love for Astarion has been a shining light in my life of late. I've. . .had to hide and smother my reactions and commentary on Astarion in my own friend groups given how a lot of people in them seem to think he's boring or just downright dislike him. Finding you was a moment in which I realized I wasn't alone - in my admiration for Astarion and Neil. Speaking of - while I don't have a lot of pocket change, I would pay good money to see you interview Neil about Astarion and Baldur's Gate 3! I know you both are busy people, and Selune only knows that Neil has been doing a slew of interviews for the Baldur's Gate 3 press junket. But - your take on this game is something special, and I feel that if you ever interviewed Neil on his part in it, that would be something no less special. Thank you for all you do! ♥
Thank you so much! I do know how that feels because there was a time when I used to crush so hard on Alistair from DAO and had literally nobody to talk to about it! I don't know what made me decide to make that first Astarion video so many years ago.. but I'm glad I did because it's been nice to be able to gush with other fans :)
And believe me, I would LOVE to interview him, but I have had no luck in contacting him. I've tried his agents and get no response. I'm not sure what the best way to contact him is and I'm thinking those other places getting interviews probably have more subs and better connections than me. I did try again recently through a different service he uses, so maybe I'll get some luck there.. By all means, send him a tweet or something and let him know you'd like to see this happen.. it might help! :)
You're very welcome! And I get that completely - that was me crushing on Cullen in DAI, and having no one to talk to but my poor brother, lol! (Before all that nastiness with his VA, of course.)
And I will do my best! I don't have much of a platform on Twitter myself, but I will absolutely shoot Neil a tweet or comment on one of his Twitch streams if I can!
I like the other scene more too because in the confession Scene he said that the nights were already part of his problem to fell in love. He implys that the protection idea was before the first night.
He's been Broken for so long.
His PTSD is so sad.
He made me love him, and feel for him.
His sincerity coming thru, is so refreshing.
Because in Reality people find it too hard to express and even share deeper ugly feelings, that make us seem weak, and we are our own worst Critt's, we don't need more, from people who can't understand what it is to be PTSD suffers at all.
Astarion's Traumatic past
Was not just mind manipulation, it was every torture that a unfeeling beast can inflict insesantly on a victimized creation of theirs, as Starry was.
He has a need to constantly have his defenses up, because he doesn't ever want to return to the Abuse, he was forced to endure, being treated no better then a obedient puppet, for the CZarr Vampire Famil' he was subjected, and used by Caz and other's.
In fact I think Raphael might have known the Angelic Starry, as the S**slave he was also forced to be. As Starry himself tells TAV that he never wants to return to the Kennels, or Boudoir's in Cazador's palace again.
As you play BG³ you can hear Astarion
*DON'T TOUCH ME.*
And other lines like careful I bite.
Which we dismiss as Vampy talk.
More like
It's what YOU WANT?¿
Isn't it¿?
Breaks me...
Because he's clearly not into your, TAV nor
Can he understand what TAV wants, not because he doesn't want to, but because he only feels he has to repeat motions to please her, in order to get what he needs from her, because he's so broken.
I think seeing him standing, there shirtless enjoying the warm caress, of the new greeting dawn, and comforting dappled suns soft kisses, as a blessed feeling for him, not to have to be on the ground with our poor, lonely questioning TAV.
Till we hear where his strange Scars came from.
Starry is more then defensive when it comes to the torrment those strange markings have caused him, no mere tatt.
And no innocent Artfully created poem.
The markings is why Starry tells TAV that he made many revisions, in the corse of one night...
Starry is the means to an end.
For his Mentor, and Tormentor.
The father figure, of the Zarr fam.
A Dick Tator, who demands Starry to be consumed by a Demonic Ritual, or take Casadors place, and Ascend instead of Cas. Only to become Cas . 2
A unfeeling power hungery
Monster, that wants what he wants, and he wants TAV to get down on her knees and worship the new Vampire god, and for her to become his Vampy Spawn.
😮💥❤️🩹💥🗡️🗡️
Ok, so TAV basically killed Starry, and made an even worse Tyranical vane Monster in place of Casador Czarr...
(Of course it will make me a Monster¿)
Undo it, un do it!!🦑🦠🕷️🕷️🕸️
Just as bad as a Mind flayer, only beautiful. But his honeyed dripped words tinge with possessive promises.
And as much as we want to submit, this Starry knows it, and now isnt against taking anything he desires, at the cost of TAV becoming his forever obedient puppet...
Perfect, no such thing.
And he started out in fear of being Manipulated controled and Abused again.
By a Monster, if you decide to help Ascend him, in hopes of freeing him completely, you will be making a big mistake, for him and your TAV.
Because broken down, completely shattered Starry, is hard to see, but better.
Because he still has good in him, not Conquest, but salvation, and he may be numb, after doing away with the creature that demeaned and made him suffer other indignanties. Now he can start a new. And he's only Thankful, and tho he has to return to the shadows, and give up the Sun forever. He still realizes that TAV did free him, and saved him from himself.
It's not only growth for the character, it's a Revelation that he can be better, and so much more, then the bastard, who made him, now he turns to TAV ready to no matter what, he wants to live again.
And he wouldn't be able to without the one who believes in him...
I love that, so much more gratifying then Ascended Ass Tarion.
He's still wonderful yet broken, but he is also humble, and endearing, still a Vampy Spawn, but still our Amazing Starry.
Our lovely light. Protective, and sweet Starry. Thank the gods✨🧝🏻♀️✨❤️🩹🗡️
Thank U @MmOGurl
❤️🩹🗡️🗡️
🩸
Some people don't care about people who suffer hardships todaze.
But we are all in need of something.
Larian has given us all something wonderful we can understand better then others what is to feel,
*Don't touch me. You mean me harm. I don't trust, as well as I used to.
Starry let's us all see the pain and anguish we all disguise. Abandonment, issues are very Real as well as other perspectives, that make us all turn to hiding, surpressing, who we are.
Astarion's (lil Star.✨) Glee at being gifted his freedom, from the Eville he faced, as well as being able to walk in the morning sun, as well as look up at the stars in camp, enter peoples homes, what Rogue wouldn't want to?
But it turns out he's so much more then we surmised.
And like most of us, he is only thankful, to have TAV not only accept him, but trust and love him, for who he is and can be.
💖🛡️💖An anti Loyal hero, for all of Faerunn, and TAV❤️🩹🧝🏻♀️❤️🩹Starry is too incredible. And Real people should only be as accepting and thoughtful, and kind.
*Oh, You mean pet bunny's, and the like?*
🐇🐇🐇
He just jests with us, because
he like's TAV. He won't admit it to her yet.
After he threatens TAV Because we haven't killed the Orthon, yet.
It's funny how TAV makes him eat humble pie with a whipped topping.
*Hmm¿! Oh¿ I'm sorry, please forgive me¿*Can we please go now¿..*
By far best, funny tragic Character in the game.
And if any of us could hug Starry, we would, no question.
With the uncertain future, for us all in the balance,
A Child abuse, unwanted foster kid,
Car crash surviver, domestic abuse Survivor, PTSD suffer, and Survivor, among other abuses, Divorced,
Abandonment survivor. My best support and best friend had been taken and mde unemployed by the very Government who had trained, and approved her to care for me. BG³ is a escape, as a self taught writer, artist, preformer. Dancer, singer more, I feel for the world, we all have to share, and very much have to be thankful for all that we get, no matter what. And help one another, because someone needs help no matter what.
Blessings sent.
And thank U for these Video Back stories about my fav Game Character of all time
Probably. Starry is so layered and broken, he feels unloved, and he has no trust or knows how to love back. Like many of us we feel used up, and given up on thru life.
But we all have to keep living. Because we know we can be so much better, then what they made us, think we should be.
And Todaze Starry just makes me cry, n smile, and feel.❤️🩹🧝🏻♀️❤️🩹
Starry Approves.❤️🩹
And he's finally, happy. 🧝🏻♀️❤️🩹
I very much prefer the confession before meeting Araj, as this one feels so much less impactful, especially if Tav and Astarion are supposed to be romantically involved.
But this option is much more fitting if you're not romancing Astarion, as it feels far more platonic. Like a good conversation between friends. Or at the very least like your feelings for one another (if indeed in a relationship) aren't very deep.
Yeah, but it's weird too because he still can talk about seducing you and how it was easy if you pick that one option.. so it's kind of a weird.. romanced/platonic thing going on. Original is definitely my favorite.. it was so potent emotionally ;)
@Mmogurl it might have been shoe horned in for players who talk to her first before getting the other scene/confession. I would have liked this as a separate thing, and still get the confession for romanced players.
WOW! Now I have a mission for my second playthrough. Acutally I missed Araj on my first one - but that's okay, because I wanted to play the game a second time anyway :) Astarion is such a well written character. This game really gives you the feeling that every character had a life before this, but Astarion is really special. Toxic relationships of any kind are wrong and no one deserves that.
I'm going through multiple times and playing with class combinations. I play DnD so it let's me experiment and really get to know the class features. Favourite so far has been a 6/6 sorcerer/paladin split.
you need a dark urge playthrough with astarion romance on it. the dynamic is really good
the original scene is still wild to me because ive done 3 playthroughs and NEVER have seen it. ive always gotten the 2nd one, this drow one.
If you "convince" him to sleep with you anyway during this scene, (Evil Tav!) the conversation afterwards is rather devastating. He realizes that you treat him just like everyone else and don't even consider his feelings or desires. He breaks it off, but it seems really clear that he had hope in "whatever this could have been." It was painful to watch, I hated it and yet deeply appreciated it for the nuance and depth of his character.
I replayed this scene over and over trying to decide which route I wanted to take officially, because each of the more caring options seems to give you a different peek into his vulnerability, or extends that moment of connection.
I continue to be so impressed and delighted by the characters, their dialogue, delivery, and the complexity of your relationships both platonic and romantic. They did such an amazing job.
I owe you my life. I was weeping thinking I couldn't get the other version of this scene until I found your video. Thank you for serving.
I had a scene like that when I wasn't romancing him at all (first playthrough I went for Gale). I didn't force him to bite the drow and he thanked me for that. It used many of the same lines, even.
I so wish that if you were romancing him they would combine both versions of this scene together, otherwise... I do like the version before meeting Araj more. Like the after Araj scene is nice but it does feel weird he doesn't mention his manipulation upfront and when you do probe for it, it's less emotional and raw
The cult dialogue changes slightly depending on how evil or good your character is. It has the same outcome, but things are approached differently. When I got the cult he was exceptional towards me so it was more of him relating to me. It may be dark urge specific but idk.
I defended him from Araj on a platonic playthrough and the scene was a lot more underwhelming compared to a romance. He does thank you for standing up to him, but he's much less vulnerable about it and mostly seems angry/cynical talking about how he just seduced targets for Cazador, 'most of them didn't even grant him temporary bliss,' he doesn't have to be like that now, etc. I get why he's less intimate with a friend than he is with his lover who he's trying to confess his true self/good intentions too, but also given how much Astarion's story is tied up in sexual abuse, it kind of sucks that being platonic with him to start gives you less than romancing him. But maybe I just haven't unlocked the rest of the platonic scene yet?
It almost seems like the two confession scenes (of seducing you and then realizing he fell for you) should be switched. I almost feel like someone allowing you to make your own choice when it's something you were never allowed to do would warrant the scene where he's a bit more earnest and breaking a bit more, but that's just me.
I can relate. Thank you for wording it. Thank you!
7:43
Thank you. You really just, dictate thoughts so well, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos/content for this very reason. You hit such a big nail on the head. It's really satisfying to hear someone just, get the idea I can't articulate well so clearly said.
It's interesting how scenes can affect people differently. The scene that takes place after meeting the drow was more impactful for me. Maybe because throughout early access what I wanted most was to earn his trust. I would say the first scene (that takes place before the drow encounter) is a lot more romantic. It's more about his developing romantic feelings for you than the second scene, which is more about his developing trust in you based on the way you've treated him. I think the fact that you've helped him to realize how the trauma he endured affected him and that he deserves better, and that he felt comfortable and safe enough to share that with you so openly was more rewarding for me.
His admission in both scenes that he was trying to manipulate you through seduction because he needed protection wasn't hurtful to me because it's always been how I interpreted his character and his motivations. For 200 years he was forced to use sex and his body to remain "safe" from Cazador and his torture. He's still operating in the same way because it's the only thing he knows. As a player I hoped to be able to let him feel safe enough for a real bond to develop, so the second scene meant more to me even though it was less romantic in the traditional sense.
Like you I got the scene before the drow encounter first. And because I had always believed he was trying to manipulate your feelings romantically I didn't fully trust the confession. I thought it might be another tactic even though I hoped it wasn't. If I had gotten the less romantic scene first I would have been less suspicious. It's also interesting that a lot of people interpret the first scene as more vulnerable because it was the opposite for me.
Same here - only without the early access experience. The drow aftermath scene felt so much more sincere for me because 1: it played into my ongoing story so well(with a chaotic-good rogue TAV who had a fling with him but was already romancing Gale too) and 2: because you can actually see him being in conflict with the person he was made to be and person he can now become. The other romance confession feels so way too soft for me, like a perfect performance from him and I would have been also even more sus about him if I see that first. In my playthrough, his approval was neutral all the way during the previous scenes since I played a good character and only the deceptions and some small stuff gained his approval, and for me it was pretty obvious he was playing Tav from the start - but I infiltrated Moonrise right at the start of Act 2, so a lot of the other personal scenes with him came after this. When I broke up with Gale to choose him he also had a little extra scene too(that also hit really hard for me personally) and that kicked my approval right up to the high alley. Also, it was hilarious cause Gale's tent was right next so the drama levels were high. Overall, it was very nice to see you can romance him and build this special relationship with him even with a good aligned(not counting all the deception cause what else should a rogue do) character, kinda showing him how to be naughty and good at the same time lol
Same here. How does the scene after the drow go if you’ve already gotten the other romance scene? Just the same as the platonic version?
Yeah I always have him at very good/exceptional approval by the end of act 1 playing a completely good character. You just have to be kind to him and funny/fun in general. But I played EA a lot so I know most of the approval checks for the companions and I'm sure that helps. @@abigailh8214
There's no scene after the drow if you've already gotten the alternate romance start. So you just miss out on all this dialogue. I'm glad I got to see both by replaying.@@lammylamtama
This is the scene I got, and I quite liked it tbh. Have not yet gotten the other scene since this is my first time romancing him, but I was so happy because I felt like I was making great progress with him after this conversation ☺️☺️ I absolutely adore how "soft" he becomes after this when speaking to you, thus far he's my absolute favourite romance in the game, with Halsin being a close second.p
I think the reason why the simp train is so hard for him is because he is so relatable. We see so much of our own lives in him.
How he says "a moment of disgust and then I would have forced myself through", because in my opinion, that's similar to what happened in our sex scene.
I don't think he was super disgusted, but that feeling, even slightly was probably still there. Especially the next morning, when our character has the choice of asking him if there's something wrong and telling him that he didn't look that much into it the night before.
The idea of him feeling like a means to an end, is very relatable for many, because we all once had a friend who used us, someone who stopped talking to us when they understood we as a person "didn't fit" their standards, or when you're really happy of doing something for someone and that person only sees you like a pushover and takes advantage of your kindness.
Some of these happened to me and it hurts a lot, especially if you're young and you grow up with these kinds of situations, continuously happening to you.
i didnt get this scene but i still really like it. I got his romance scene as it is before encountering Araj and depending on your options in that one, he doesnt volunteer as much information about his relationship with Cazador. Like i reloaded the initial romance scene a few times to get different options and unless im misremembering, in one series of choices he doesnt rly mention how Cazador used him whereas in the scene in the video he straight up tells you everything unprompted.
Still, im amazed with the complexity of the dialogue branches in this game. In other similar games you sorta circle back and can select all the available options from a conversion but in bg3 you can miss out on so much if you dont pick certain choices. Another example: during the encounter with Araj i didnt chose the "I thought youd jump at the opportunity" option so i completely missed the bit about her blood being weird.
And now im reading the comments in this video and people are sharing what other dialogue other choice will trigger and wow!!!! There is just so much of this game in every conceivable way!
I actually wonder how would that hug scene look like when your character is a gnome or dwarf. Do you hug his legs or wat? Gotta try this out 😎
lmao xD
This is legit why I wouldn't want to play a gnome, halfling or dwarf in BG3 (despite having played them in my 30 years of tabletop D&D) because it makes the romance scenes with the companions look... weird. Same goes for a Dragonborn character smooching a companion; thankfully the game devs did figure out a way to prevent the snout from clipping into the companion's face so there has to be a different distance for Dragonborn character head models from the companion head model during kissing scenes than for humanoid head models. but a Dragonborn body model is so bulky it still clips during the hugging scene.
Otherwise as a biologist I would be all over playing as a Dragonborn because they look gorgeous. (I went with Tiefling instead, love those horns.) Sadly I never found an Eberron group back when Dragonborn were first introduced in d20 D&D 3E for the Eberron setting (which also is where Warforged originated from before they were inserted into other D&D worlds by WotC), because our campaigns are set in ol' Greyhawk or in self-designed worlds.
Mine was the first confession. So much more heartwarming in my particular opinion. His way to come and open up with you about his feelings.❤
I'm just going to state that I've had far better and healthier relationships with fictional characters than most real life people. Just like picking up a favourite book is like going on an adventure with old friends, dating a pixel man can be healthy too. It can help you explore emotions and your own experiences without the risk of real time (or real in general) consequences or backlash from other people. So, to all you fictosexuals out there, cheers. Keep on keepin on. ❤
:) Thanks for that! I just like to keep a 'healthy' level of skepticism in most things. It helps me stay balanced xD
In other youtube videos, I found out that you still can get the lines about Tav been incredible and deserving something real. The condition is not to talk with Drow and (maybe) have approval higher than 90.
It's wild that Astarion's romance has helped me figure out what real love is supposed to feel like. It's ridiculous because he's a video-game character! I've always just gaslit myself into dating people who were practical choices because they were kind and dependable.
I relate to his character so much. How he struggled with abuse and agency, the facade he puts up with vulnerability underneath. Then his zesty spirit, vanity, and devotion made for the perfect cocktail. He's stolen my heart. I want to find someone in life to love wholeheartedly who will make my heart burst with passion and adoration.
See I’ve just had this scene (finally can play on PS5) and I saw your first video so was expecting that but when I got this one and had Astarion tell me it was easy to seduce me and have no remorse in his voice and just brush it off like it was nothing (unlike the first video) it broke my heart. It’s so hard for me to trust him now and I keep thinking he’s still using me. I don’t understand how you can do the same thing yet get two drastically different dialogs. Seen a comment saying apparently this scenes happens in platonic relationships that’s why so I’d like to think they’d fix it so you get the first one with a romance no matter when you meet Araj as it makes a big difference in how Astarion comes across
@meillyn9059 that’s exactly how I feel like I’m just now playing this game I didn’t reach this scene yet but him casually talking about how easy it was to manipulate and deceive you and brushed it aside like he was talking about the weather rubbed me the wrong way I guess do to it hitting a cord with me. I had friends use and manipulate and then get upset with me when I opened my eyes to what they were doing and cut ties it’s hard to feel like “oh he’s so romantic sweet and touching” after he just admitted to saying how easy it was to fool me into doing what he wanted for his own benefit. Like how am I suppose to believe you now moving forward? Now every time you open your mouth to whisper “sweet nothings” to me I’m going see it as another tactic of manipulation on your part it was just hurtful to hear like Mmogurl was saying and I just don’t feel confident in pursuing him. I already went to and build a bit of a bond with Gale because I vibed more with him and he’s a bit of a book nerd like me 😅lol but I’m not sure about being with Astarion 😔 .
@@iofororox1801 tbh after doing two playthroughs now romancing Astarion I don’t like him as a romance until after the end of his quest and if you don’t ascend him. Then he becomes completely different and very lovely but up until that point it is always manipulation. I hate the fact we the players and our character can’t call him out on it either. There’s one dialog option where you can actually do this and it’s along the lines of “your manipulative, controlling, abusive, everything you claimed to hate in Cazador” but you only get this line if you’re breaking up with an ascended Astarion. I wish we could have the option to healthily and kindly point this out to him in the hopes we’d see a change in his attitude when he realises what he’s becoming. Astarion is one of those characters where they’ve sadly experienced abuse but gone down the route of becoming another abuser not becoming better.
@@meillyn9059 thanks for the info meillyn it’s so funny because when I was looking at people’s comments in other forums like Reddit about astarion’s romance play through and oooh boy 😖 it was a bit toxic and too overwhelming and I just decided not to get involved lol but your info and insight was really helpful, I think on my first play through I’ll romance Gale and then astarion on my 2nd run I’m a bit worried I might have locked myself out of Gale’s romance due to messing up the first weave scene 🤦🏾♀️.
This is the scene you get if the approval doesn't rise fast enough or if he isn't romanced at all (with some variations). Maybe that's why he seemes less emotional?
But he was romanced and at exceptional.. the only difference was that I hopped down to moonrise before sleeping and met with Araj.. but otherwise the original scene shows if I go to bed on the same night xD
@@MmogurlI think they mean that players can get this scene even if their relationship with Astarion is platonic and not that high. It has a more ambiguous feel to it because your relationship with him can either be romantic OR platonic at this point, whereas you only get the original confession scene you posted if you're romantically involved with him.
Yeah, that's how I got to progress his romance, because I was struggling with approval earlier. I'm still okay with it - for me, it feels like an organic growth where he realized I respect him as a person, and (in my head canon) he felt safe to have feelings for my character.
The “throwing yourself at me” dialogue breaks me to even see it 😭
i did 2 different play throughs, got both. Did an "evil" ending with him then a "good" ending. Definitely dont regret it
I got this scene in my playthrough and I went through all of the choices, the bad choices are just heartbreaking. You can choose the "...throw yourself at me." option and still get the "good" end, it's worth it too because of his response.
I know it isn't part of the romance sequence, but if you meet Araj again in Baldur's Gate, Astarion has some choice dialogue 😀
I couldn't find Araj in Act 2, but I saw her in Act 3 and still got this sense after defining Astarion.
This scene is so intense. I saved right before so I could try the bad answers. And I chose the throw yourself at me response without reading it lol. I reloaded quickly after that. It’s the ultimate douchey line, I felt so bad, but there is the worse one.
Man, now I'm worried. I got the first confession scene before Araj and then later went to moonrise. I went with the "you don't have to do anything you don't want to but it would be helpful" and his approval didn't dip much and I can still trigger the "lets talk about us" dialogue and he's positive. I'm worried that somewhere down the line this choice will have consequences I can't see.
Keep in mind that you need really high approval anyways. I had the scene with the drow, approval on 74, but nothing.
Wait a minute, the freeze frame at around the 4 minute mark is giving me Jeff Goldblum from the OG Jurassic Park vibes lol
I told him the potion could help but to choose his own opinion and he still blames me for biting her
Now if only they'd let us hug Gale, Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Wyll, Halsin, Minthara, Jaheira and Minsc. I think they all need hugs too.
I had him drink her blood by choice since the potion is too worth it. It made sense for my Tav to let him pick, he decided to do it anyways (although reluctantantly). He said forcing himself to do something made him realize that he didnt want Tav to just see him as another body. It was such an intense and vulnerable scene
I prefer the post-araj version, you just learn so much more about him through it.
Would it be possible to get both? Do the go to sleep, get the first scene you had - then go see the Drow and get this scene after? Makes me wonder now and might try that this playthrough.
It would depend on what you get up to before leaving the first time. After breaking out the teiflings and minthara, I left and avoided the place like the plague before going back to a hornet's nest I had kicked.
I selected friend not a lover as i just felt that was what the character needed based on passed experiences but will do another play through and romance to the end with him maybe as dark urge
In my current game, he and my character isn't romanticly involved - he's still flirty sometimes, but she "spoils his fun", as he puts it. I'm hoping for that fun Raphael scene (that I won't spoil for you, because I think you should see it for yourself, in another playthrough). Can't wait to see how my character reacts to it. LOOOOOL!
I'm just starting a Astarion romance playthrough and my RP my Tav will be extremely jealous and protective of the idea that he her Astarion would be forced to bite some other gurl.
You talking about beating yourself up, 'A means to an end'... it doesn't have to be anything to do with love in that aspect. It could be in a job too, being taken advantaged of for a job you do well or the fact that you can't really leave that job because its hard to find another for you for one reason or another...
I got the second one and it fit with my Tav's relationship with him more? Idk how to describe it but I liked that they finally figured out oh wow I really like this person at the same time. My Tav and him slept with each other for different reasons and then both caught feelings as the story moved on 😂.
It was cuter that way especially when you ask him what does Us mean and he sounds like a giddy teenager liking the sound of that. I'm going to rerun it with this Tav again and see what else i can find
When I see people make him bite her in their playthroughs, I want to cry. He hates it so much, and in my opinion, it is never worth the strength boost.
Holy crap my save file is glitched 😭 I had a romance scene with wyll, didn’t know it would trigger his relationship with him so both Gale and Astarion had something to say to me but only one of them triggered. For curiosity’s sake, I chose Gale then did Astarion’s dialogue but it disappeared. I went into camp to break up with Wyll but then he now thinks I chose Astarion over him??? 😭😭😭 what is happening
If you skip a confession scene or miss it.. they will think you automatically broke up with them for someone else. I had this happen with Gale once when I was experimenting around with these scenes.
this is the scene i got and i by far like the other one better, unfortunately i had no idea about the change and had progressed too far to justify loading an old save;;;; im still early ish in act 3 so i could still go back and catch up to where i am in a few hours...
Hi everyone! Does anyone know if I choose option 2 ("maybe you need a friend and not a lover"), whether there's still a chance to romance Astarion? I like that response, but from the scene and his response, I can't tell if it might close off the possibility of a romance.
Can someone tell me if it's a bug or intendet - I had the other confession scene, and even though we met Araj, he never even mentioned her. I understand I wouldn't get the scene in the video, but I hoped that I would get an alternative dicussion about the situation, since it seems so important to him. 🤔
hey, thanks for breaking it down! I got this romance scene & I've got a question. Do I keep the romance going when I chose the "Maybe what you really need is a friend, not a lover" option?
No. This sets the relationship to friendship and the romance ends.
My friend made me have that scene and I didn’t get his confession at all, and he made me say the wrong thing and now he’s at medium because he doesn’t like Astorian which is annoying
Hello ! thank you for your videos ! i adore them ! in my first playthrought i got the second option, but how do you trigger the first one ?
Do you mean the original scene? If so, just avoid going to moonrise and talking to Araj until the romance scene triggers.
@@Mmogurl yes this one indeed. Alright, thank youuuuuu =)
Do you have a play through showing the approvals answers for him? I can’t seem to get his romance up more ;0;
I want both options in on play-through 😢😢😢
because they uncover him more
Omg lmao I don’t want him to bounce and leave me, that would be so heartbreaking. Is the reason people get that cause his level isn’t maxed out or high enough?
I have no idea because it hasn't happened to me! I am not at super high approval with him in my druid game, so I will get a chance to see how approval affects it soon.
As far as i know it doesn't matter if your approval is exceptional or not, if you encounter Araj than this scene will be triggered. It also did not affected the romance going foward, it will be the same as if you had gotten he first confession. At least that is what happened to me
i havent gone further in the game yet, but when you ask what are we to him, and he says whatever in the world could you be? how do you get past that?
Guys I have a question ! I have high approval from him since act 1 (and slept with him... twice in theory) but i have no romance scene at all in act 2. Not even this one. What did I miss on my run ? I need answer, its my second one and i only play it to romance Astarion XD
im a bit confused, how do you get the more intimate cutscene confession? just have a higher approval rate with him?
Yes high approval by moonrise towers but don’t goto Araj, I had 100 with him but you don’t have to be that high just exceptional I think.
@@AikoSea thank you!
I defended him from the drow. I did some stuff and then I long rested and never got this dialog. Nothing I do will trigger the scene and idk what to do anymore
Im a little bit confused, can you start the romance in act 2? My approval isnt so great from 1 and havenet had any type of romantic scenes yet...
It's likely you can. I've seen other people say they could get it later on.. but in my case I was at exceptional pretty early on in Act1 because I've been romancing Astarion for a very long time in early access. Makes it much easier to know what to do for approval.
I got both scenes... Although I think I had quite a few long rests
I'm so sad I didn't get this scene after meeting the drow. I long rested so many times and never Got it :(
I got this scene too and I was somewhat disappointed because from watching others videos I knew this scene could be more romantic :( We still hugged, and it was sweet, but I wonder if I did something wrong. How do you trigger the other scene instead of this one? Was my approval not high enough?
My approval was maximum, but I still got this scene. I really want to know how to get the first one :(( I like the first scene better..
im so confused on how you get the convo about him saying he was trying to manipulate you but fell for you. HELPPPP
For the second time I didn't get the scene without Araj! I waited, but no. How do you get the scene without meeting her? Approval was really high at this point anyway
Help I can't get to romancing him. Is it because i skipped having "fun" with him at the tiefling party?