Jim Cornette on Gimmick Replacements
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- From Bonus Episode 1 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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Super thankful for the bonus content lately. i just lost my grandfather to start my 2022, and it's Jims wit and humor that can bring me back to ground zero and look in the positives looking forward, much like my grandpa would teach me to do. Thank you Mr. Cornette for your work 🙏
bless ya
Rest in peace jim really dose help alot of people throw tough times even if he doesn't realize it
Sorry for your loss mate.
My condolences, losing a loved one any time is hard. But this early in the year is a kick in the teeth.
I remember Diesel and Razor were gone for a while, but then they came back good as new!
Just had a couple plastic surgeries and then came back looking just fine!
Lol. The new Razor Ramon couldn’t throw a punch if it was attached to a baseball. It was cringy everytime he threw one
@Josh Stephens hey josh, Vince McMahon is right and you and all your wraslin’ fans are wrong! We are sports entertainment!
To be fair fake diesel turned out to be the best out of the 4.
@@starshipfame1 compared to the old razor, who threw the best working punch in wrestling lol
Jim may have originally been thinking of Col. DeBeers with the AWA thing.
Hearing that bit with the 3 Stooges did remind me that there was one Stooges short that did have both Shemp and Curly in it. But Curly was playing a character that was not Curly. He was just playing the part of a sleeping man on a train who sounded familiar.
Corporal Kirchner's 2nd major run in the United States after his 1980's WWF (WWE) run was during 1991 for the UWF.... Herb Abram's UWF. I think 95% of us here have seen the Herb Abram's episode of Darkside of the Ring to know how that turned out. LOL. Kirchner returned to Japan after that in his Leatherface gimmick (which looked extremely similar to Mick Foley's Mankind gimmick... Foley as Cactus Jack even worked with Kirchner as Leatherface in Japan a few times).
How about when Tom Zenk left the Cam-Am Connection in the WWF. When Zenk left, Tito Santana was asked to join Rick Martel and they became Strike Force.
Okay, I think we can count that one as a success, fellas. Good call 👏👏👏
Different team.
Just saw the Siva Afi thing. They really overstated what happened
Cpl. Kirchner was actually a legit former US Army Paratrooper, 82nd Airborne, before getting into wrestling. He was discovered by Hulk Hogan at Hogan's gym who introduced him to Verne Gagne, sending him to Gagne's school. Unfortunately while he had the legit real world credentials and a superior physique he just wasn't the Sarge.
Agreed. It was hard to get over as a Military gimmick with Sgt. Slaughter already established.
i knew that guy from my time in the military -= nice dude
Nice guy, but do not cross him. He gots them heavens gate eyes.
He's an E-3 and Sarge was an E-4.
the time when WCW tried to imitate the Ultimate warriors character. the Renegade guy gimmick sucked so bad. I'm sure Jim Hellwig was mad as hell when they did that shit lol
I think the worst replacement in pro wrestling history was Lance Von Eric. Knowing how over the Von Erics were in WCCW, and knowing what that family had been through, and what the fans had been through with them, it was like a direct slap in the face. I honestly don't know if the fans ever forgave Fritz for that.
thats true. I grew up watching world class , and seeing a guy posing as a von erich was not only bad but distasteful for the memory of David Von erich. Fritz was losing his mind back then no wonder Gary hart and others went to NWA and Mid south wrestling
@@arturoalmazan5262 Not really, Gary was always on the fritz train. He hated Joe blanchard and paul bosch just because they broke away from fritz.
Hate to admit to you, I like lance
Watching WCCW since the Jan 82’ show they have as “Season one Ep 1” lol I’m in March 84’ David died a month ago and I’m waiting for the Lance Days to see how tepid and bullshit it comes off..Mike Von Erich just got there too
Corporal was the most logical rank to assign him. Private is too lowly, Sargent was taken, and anything higher would be too “upity”
It could have been Lieutenant Dan
@@ADrunkBassist zach gowen should've got that gimmick
@@PaulieD1984 haha holy shit fk yeah
@@PaulieD1984last time I remember genuine tears of laughter during a wrestling match, that match against big show with Mr America 🇺🇸 in the kids corner
One legged moonsault 😂🤣
Cornette would have met the Corporal at WM17. For some weird reason I will ALWAYS remember that Kirchner was announced in the 1st group of folks for the gimmick battle royal - and then the next week, he’d vanished from the match lineup.
He got booted from the card even though he was advertised
The Fantastics were the same gimmick as The Fabulous Ones, even came out to "Sharp Dressed Man" and they were successful. The Great Muta was more successful than The Great Kabuki. Muta was originally billed as Kabuki's son if I recall correctly, but it was the same gimmick.
"[Muta....Muta....,] are you a warrior?"
The original fantastics were in 83 Chattanooga.....the fantastic ones they were called. Bobby Fulton and Terry taylor!
Boy you smoke that hard gimmick
Right on Carleton! They sure were. Hated those guys. Loved seeing the Fantastics get clobbered.
@@phildodson6141 I was watching some Southwest Championship Wrestling the other day and I saw Bobby Fulton teaming with Tony Falk. Falk, who later on infamously became 'Boy Tony' in Memphis. Fulton was doing the finger pointing and shaking his butt prior to his days with the Fantastics. But the entire time I couldn't help but laugh because he was teaming with 'Boy Tony'.
Rest in peace Corporal Kirchner
Superfly Sivi Afi had, "Very unusual wrestling maneuvers, " according to Bruno Sammartino on commentary in that match. Helluva buildup...
Being from New York I thought that was Curtis Sliwa
I was at that MSG show. That's an easy way to ruin a push before it even started.
Actually Curly followed Shemp, who was arguably the star in the original incarnation of The Stooges. Check your facts Jim!
Wow someone is a Three Stooges fan and historian. Most people don’t realize Shemp was on the vaudeville circuit and replaced for the shorts.
True. Shemp left to pursue serious acting gigs and came back when Curly couldn't perform anymore.
Doesn’t matter when you’re a “Fake Shemp”
For the record the Curly shorts were the best stooge shorts but I'm a huge Shemp fan. He was underrated
Moe was the man, though lol
Fun fact: Shemp was the original third Stooge when it was a stage act. He didn't want to be on camera, so when Hollywood called, little brother Curley took over
Moe Larry Shemp and Curly rule! It's Curly Joe and regular Joe that suck. Long live Moe Larry Curly and Shemp!
Check out the phone booth scene in “Scrambled Brains” for some Shemp content.
Droz trying to replace Hawk in LOD & The New Midnight Express (Bart Gunn & Bob Holly) come to mind during the Attitude Era.
Droz as a Road Warrior was equally as bad as Heidenreich as a Road Warrior
@@michaelmfwayne IMO Heidenreich was much worse.
Barry Windham replacing Lex Luger in The Four Horsemen worked well.
Bray Wyatt is probably a more successful version of Waylon Mercy.
I immediately thought of Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan (Buddy Rogers and Billy Graham)
Spot on,they stole so much of so many
Kirchsner's masked gimmick run in Japan was of the chainsaw wielding killer Leatherface even teamed up with Cactus Jack for a hardcore match.
Maybe Vince thought of that when he decided to give Terry Funk that awful Chainsaw Charlie gimmick. lol
You mean the terrible Chainsaw Charlie idea that was Terry’s idea? Vince approved it but you can hear Terry in interviews talk about where he came up with the idea.
@@fandangoandcash5267 Yea Terry was trying to get Super Leather in WWF in 97.
Corporal Kirchner was LEATHERFACE in Japan.
Had a great run in the deathmatch scene in the early 90s
He was actually in the military unlike Slaughter...Thank you for your service
The worst was Diesel and Razor. That was on national television. Like pissing in public.
Fake diesel and fake razor was shown around the world.
... pissing in public? what? lol
Heu Jim, here's a oiece for ya: Shemp was actually the original Stooge when they worked Vaudeville with Ted Healey...he left the trouoe to make Palooka Joe films, and Jerome "Curly" Howard, Mo's other Brother, and Vaudevillian in his own right, shaved his head, uttered the immortal phrase "Call me Curly," and proceeded to bust the box office....
I'm glad someone else knows that.
@@Treklosopher It is subjective, but I think Shemp was great. Curly and Shemp were on a higher level than Joe, but to be fair to Joe, Curly and Shemp were already dead. Curly Joe was not good, but, again, Curly and Shemp were dead and Joe was just contractually a Stooge to fulfill their contract.
@@gregorykrug8034 Curly is still my favorite, but Shemp had his moments too. He was the physical guy like curly, but had his own style. Joe Besser was unwatchable though.
@@archiemisc Joe Besser was weak and so was Joe DeRita, but it was either that or nothing.
As far as bad replacements go, a case can be made for the “New” Diesel & Razor Ramon having a spot on that Mount Rushmore! Absolutely embarrassing!!
Maybe Doink The Clown 🤡 ?
I think The Lord Humungous character being picked up in South Eastern wrestling after in Tennessee was a great run!
I won't say the name of the guy who played Lord Humongous in Memphis (everybody around Memphis knows already and so do most smarks anyway) but he HATES it when anybody mentions that to him these days.
@@DolFan316 haha I see. I think Jeff Van Camp did a great job in the mid south area as well, though he wasn’t the original lol
A year later, this is still platinum.
Mean Mark Callous replacing Sid Vicious in the Skyscrapers, THEN Mike Enos replacing Spivey for a one off appearance
Al "Leif Cassidy" Snow replacing Shawn Michaels in the Rockers.
Gary Cherone having to follow up both David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar in Van Halen.
Just about every Dolphins quarterback since Dan Marino retired.
To be fair al "leif cassidy" snow joined the rockers 5 years after the original rockers split its not like they were still a team when shawn was replaced.
Cherone should've stuck with Nuno or vice versa. However, Cherone's lyrics with VH3 were very pro working class, at least on a couple of songs, so good job Gary.
Did you REALLY have to throw in that last one? 😠
The corporal Kirshner guy just died 10 days ago!
The only gimmick replacement I can think of is Doink The Clown
I'm thinking, what about the Sheepherders? Wasn't there a dude that stepped in for a time?
Hulk Hogan left but then Lex Luger came in and everything was just gre... oh.. uh, nevermind.
"I DON' KNOW" going through my head (yes, I know it wasnt in WWF when it happened)
No George Lazenby slander will be allowed. As far as the Stooges...Shemp is Dennis, Curly is Stan
Jim Cornette you gotta do a weekly review of the STARZ TV Show "Heels", your insight is needed!
I really wish they would cover Heels instead of Young Rock.
Switching Al Snow for Shawn Michaels. Woof.
Useless Trivia: Kirshner lost the WWF's first ever PPV match, to Adrian Adonis.
Um no. The Wrestling Classic wasn't on ppv. Common misconception
The WWF Wrestling Classic was the first ppv made available to the entire U.S. Wrestlemania 1 was a closed circuit event that may have been available on ppv only in the New York area.
Adrian Adonis was a fat weak sissified version of the great Continental Championship Wresting heel and multi time champion the Exotic Adrian Street. You remember, the guy who "eats a dozen t-bones for an early morning snack. So imagine what I could do to you" a British legend and, according to a former jobber I currently work with, a legitimate bad ass.
Demolition Smash could be an example of a successful replacement perhaps? Barry Darsow was much more successful than the three matches that Randy Colley had as Smash who everyone recognized as a Moondog.
Agreed! Thoughts on Crush? Not nearly as good as Ax, but seemed to be relatively over by the time Ax was totally phased out...
No. Barry Darsow was a performer replacement, not gimmick. He was still the Smash character. Performer replacements were common in the days of heavy face paint and masks.
Give you an example: Dan Spivey. His entire gimmick was created to invoke the image of Hulk Hogan. Had he had a modicum of talent or work ethic he may have had a chance. Instead, he's remembered as nothing but a cheap carbon copy that did even less in the ring than Hogan himself.
And no, Glenn Jacobs and Richard Bognar as "Fake" Diesel and Razor Ramon, respectively, don't qualify as 'gimmick replacements' because both were given the original gimmicks and presented to the audience as such. Gimmick replacement is to assign the same exact gimmick to a different character after the original character is no longer in use. In these cases the characters weren't replaced, only the performers that portrayed them.
@@charliewebb6348 Crush was Brian Adams. Crush didn't replace a gimmick, he was added as a piece to an existing gimmick as Demolition was the gimmick which from its inception was created to feature multiple characters. Smash replaced Ax, but the Demolition gimmick was unchanged.
@@yesthisisvic Smash didn’t replace AX. They were together, and added Crush as their third member. Eventually all were phased out, and Crush became a strong 💪 guy, powerhouse Hobb type character, and Barry Darsow was brought back as Repo Man. Crush died, and Repo Man was changed again, but I can’t remember to who. It was short, didn’t get over, and that was it. Maybe i’m wrong, it’s been 25+ years.
@@MrMaximus1959 Smash didn’t replace Ax, he replaced Smash. The original Smash was played by one of the Moondogs, but the fans recognized him and kept chanting “Moondog”, so he was replaced by Barry very early in Demolition’s run.
Has to be Undertaker. How many people actually remember Barry Windham being ' The Widowmaker?'
Similar but different, the Undertaker was a undead mortician. The widow maker was based on a gunfighter cowboy gimmick.
@@RobTheUndertaker did you actually SEE Windham dressed up in the gimmick? Western leather duster, pretty much like 'Takers.
@@Briansgate yeah, that's why I said similar but not the same.
Depending on your parameters, Ric Flair. Wasn't a 'replacement' as such but Buddy Rogers had already become a legend with the 'Nature Boy' gimmick, Flair adopted it and became even more successful.
🙄
Good job azapro! I thought the exact same thing.
Grammar please! Is it too much to ask to want want to read competent replies?
@@relaxandgetoverit8393 you are the Lex Luger of the comment section.
No matter how you word it, the fact is that Flair stole the man's fk'n gimmick
Kirschner had a short run in Calgary
I had the corporal k. Ljn figure as a kid and he was the only one I didn't know who the hell he was. I never saw one of his WWF matches back then.
I didn't know he existed until today and I know some jobbers from the 90s 😂
I mean... Charlotte is basicly female Ric Flair. Does that count?
The New Brood, Gangrel and The Hardy Boyz (replacing Edge and Christian) were pretty good and then even better as themselves The Hardy Boyz in their late 90's and early 2000's WWF run
JBL was the newer version of Ted DiBiase. Then they did it again with Alberto Del Rio.
Bonus points for the Rudy Ray Moore mention
Dan Spivey replacing Barry Windham as Mike Rotundo’s partner.
Midnight rockers for rock & roll in AWA?
Eddie Gilbert as king👑working USWA?
Rock n roll weren't in awa
How about Dan Spivey replacing Barry Windham in the US Express
Siva Afi Came in as Superfly Afi, Then Went Back to Siva Afi ...
The Fantastics were successful in making a switch. Tommy Rogers replaced Jackie Fulton and The Fantastics never missed a beat.
Um no...Tommy was first replaced by Jackie and it was shit
.Superstar Billy Graham - Hulk Hogan
.Roger's - Flair
.Monty Brown - Lashley
.Bret Hart - Owen Hart
.Tully, Arn, Ollie and Gene
Monty Brown's entire personality was ripped from The Rock
The worst one had to Danny Spivey. Were we not supposed to realize it wasn't Barry Windham.
Lol i hope this is a troll post lol cause Spivey and Windham were 2 different people lol
@@smokemonster4744
Exactly lol
@@smokemonster4744 all that matters is that neither of 'em were Rotunda
@@smokemonster4744 in late 85 Barry Windham was burned out so he and Mike Rotunda dropped the tag belts to Valentine and Beefcake. Fast forward to early to 1986 and WWF TV starts announcing the return of the US Express. So fans are expecting Windham and Rotunda to get a return series against the Dream Team. But surprisingly coming out to Born in USA with the same attire ..same US Olympic jackets same US flag kerchief , is someone who looks remarkably similar to Barry Windham ...same long blond hair and tall gangly physique. Spivey himself tells you in shoot videos he was brought in as Windhams replacement in US Express tag team with Rotunda .
Didn't Windham play a fake Sting in an angle once? That to me would've ben much worse.
there were actually a few Tarzan actors.
Corny looks good with a beard. I agree Shemp was not Curly, no one could be Curly. However, given the circumstances I think he was good as a stooge. I would say his work is excellent if you overlook that he was replacing a sick Curly.
Kirschner became Super Leather in FMW as well..
Guys! He was Leatherface in USWA and Japan.
Does anyone know if there is any footage of that SUPERFLY thing on youtube or somewhere else to see that? The way Bryan described that was so funny It's got to be even funnier to see that video clip
Cpl Kirschener was in Stamepede for a while.
Would putting Tito with Rick Martel as Strike Force after Tom Zenk left the Can-Am Connection count?
Yes. Yes it would.
"You are gonna rebuild me as what. The six million dollar man ?" -HonkyTonkMan
Thank you Mr Cornette Super fly sifi afi that crap was horrible haha ha .
Sivi went to prison in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland Ohio) for a robbery when I was a kid. It was on the news. I think he did 12 years WUAB 43 Lorain Cleveland
Sad for him wrestling promoters suck
Moondogs??? There was like 5 of them 🤷🏻♂️
He died about a week ago. May he rest in peace.
Kirchner was the last wrestler to pass away of 2021 back in December which also included Jimmy Rave (famous for having toilet paper thrown at him [how did the toilet paper throwing at Rave meme start anyway?] and was 39 when he died on December 12th) and Blackjack Lanza.
I've always wanted to ask Jim Cornette about Kirshner but wasn't sure he was around long enough.
I always HATED Demolition, cause I thought they were a cheap knock off of The Road Warriors. But surprisingly, they did get over in WWF.
Demolition had nothing to do with the road warriors. You are a disgrace to the 1980s.
Different look. Different style. Dungeon masks with spikes. Mr. Fuji . Rick Deringer metal theme entrance music . 🎶
As other guy said.
The ONLY similarity was they were both tag teams with facepaint.
Demolition just looked like two big guys, while people didn't say "Roid Warriors" for nothing.
Demolition wrestled. Road Warriors had 4 moves.
Demolition sold for their opponents. Road Warriors didn't.
If Demolition lost to a Bulldogs or a Hart Foundation they could come back. Road Warriors had to be protected, or the whole gimmick would have collapsed.
And, Demolition were part of the ice cream bar, Rock n Wrestling boom. They looked like 70s KISS. By contrast, the Road Warriors had an obvious S&M, homoerotic vibe that Demolition never had.
@@danielburger1775 I'm behind you 97.88% except for rainbow 🌈 erotica
Moondogs changed a couple of times
Maybe the Minnesota Wrecking. Crew. Lars and Gene to Gene and Ole to Ole and Arn
To some extent the Horsemen. Always a debate on the best group Windham vs Ole
Windham.....IMO
Windham.
Wasn’t Cpl Kierschner a buddy of Sgt Slaughter in his AWA days? I remember he had a marine tag team partner there.
no that was someone else
@@jlover911 Who?
Love Corporal Kirchner as a kid, thought Slaughter looked old and out of shape
Kirchner couldn't lace up Slaughter's boots.
I liked Sarge. Legendary character. The voice, the chin, the stache….
Never looked in excellent shape, though he looked a bit better when he was younger, and he had that bald spot that made him look old. So, I can understand what you are saying.
Jay Lethal had a great run as Black Machismo
New Junk Yard Dog Sylvester Ritter got over.
Fake diesel and Razor. New Midnight express, New blackjacks, crush replacing axe in demolition, New rockers all unsuccessful
I loved him as a kid . still got his LJN figure . dug him as leather face too ! Even though I didn't realize it was him till 2002 !
Damn… I thought I was the only one that had his figure lol
@@parsons79 now you know of 2 other people that has it lol. but i only know one other person in real life that had it. i rarely saw kirchner hanging from the peg wall in va
@@parsons79 Still holding onto mine as well. Actually started repainting a few of them.
My friend and I used the Kirchner figure as a sub for Paul Diamond when he was in Badd Company with Pat Tanaka, with Snuka being our Tanaka, and called them "Badd Company". There was a brief time when Diamond for some reason went with a military look around that period. It was the only notable thing Kirchner ever did in our federation.
@@DolFan316 that tag team doesnt get talked about enough. Pat Tanaka was/is awesome
In defense of Shemp Howard, he was the original third Stooge, but had left when they were a stage act (and was going his own comedy), before they started making the short films.
I agree thatwhen STan replaced Denis; wasd awesome... Only other one I could think of was another "family"... the Andersons... Lars, Gene, Ole, Arn
The worst and best replacements happened in the same group. Luger didn’t fit in the Four Horsmen but Wyndham was meant to be a Horsman.
What about when Bob Holly teamed with Robert Gibson to form the new rock ‘n’ roll Xpress? In the NWL
How about the Sheepherders?
Okay, that's another good one I didn't think of! Well done 😊
The nature boy.....
Dusty Rhodes going to WWE are probably the worst of the worst.
Rudy Ray Moore! HA!
The New Rockers
Never knew sarge got fired over gi joe.
Kirschner was an NWA jobber, I tried to prove it as a kid and my friends thought I was nuts
Fake Diesel and Razor were the worst if you ask me
Nature Boy Ric flair
I met a gentleman a few weeks back at the flea market in Portland TN. He claims to have been the manager to wahoo McDaniels , I think he said his name was colonel wolf. Any truth to this?
RIP, he was a fan favourite for sure.
The New Blackjacks: John Bradshaw Layfield & Bart Gunn.
The New Blackjacks were Bradshaw and Windham NOT Bart Gunn in 1997
Ric Flair taking over Buddy Rogers's gimmick sure worked!
What about tiger mask?
Kirchner worked here in Florida on an Indy card with Adrian Street, Ox Baker, and the Malenko Brothers about 1989 (?)
Corp Kirschner was an actual solider where Slaughter was a poser.
Oh come on Jim. He was Final Solution in WCW