Masha Gessen Responds to Controversy After Comparing Gaza to a Nazi Ghetto | Amanpour and Company
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2024
- Masha Gessen recently was awarded the prestigious Hannah Arendt Prize for Political Thought - in a scaled-back ceremony after a very public spat. The author and staff writer at The New Yorker faced backlash after comparing Gaza to Nazi-era Jewish ghettos in the essay "In the Shadow of the Holocaust." Gessen joined Michel Martin to discuss the difficulty of exercising critical thought.
Originally aired on December 21, 2023
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Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City.
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Masha is spot on. We're all sick and damned tired of the catch-all, "To criticize Israel foreign policy is antisemitic or to be an antisemite." It is not.
You have no covenant with God. Geshem Israel Geshem Israel elehenu Adonai. I was born March 11th in Bethlehem 61 years ago.
. @jacovawernett3077 actually as a jew, Masha Gessen has the same covenant you do. She is a prophet, performing the traditional function of a prophet ... warning Israel of wrong doing
Covenant with God? You are nuts. Etzel was justified? This is the origins of Likud. And Judiasm changed for the better after 70 ad into an religion focused increasingly on justice and away from the logics of sacrifice and in periods of enlightenment away form xenophobia and the outlandish and anti-cosmopolitan “chosen people” parochialist mythology that we find in primitive tribes in world anthrohistory. Jewish survival, and I worry about this, depends on consistent, non-tribalist/non-racist applications of the best Talmudic arguments. And Jews flourish in liberal anti-tribalist societies,
as one cultural
group among
many.
@daniadejonghe4980 she is not a Prophet. She has never heard God's voice from above. I have heard 50 sentences from God above. She tells no Prophecy. You are cheapened. Go read Hebrews 6:19. Anchor of the Soul. What you and Masha are not. She has no covenant with God aka Gott.
@daniadejonghe4980 I asked God His. He answered, Fundamentally E.
I answered, energy of consciousness that suffuses everything. Every proton, neutron, electron, quark, spark of light and black hole. He answered, don't forget the science. God asked me, what side of the blade are you on. I answered, the side of the righteous my words are my sword.
As a non-Jew who saw the bombing of norhtern Gaza weeks ago and could only see the Warsaw Ghetto, I am so proud of Masha Gessen and grateful that someone with her platform is making this analogy. If over 20,000 Gazans have been killed in just 11 weeks, how many will Israel kiill in a year, or two? 100,000? 200,000? How many will die of starvation and disease? 200,000? 300,000? How many of the over 55,000 wounded will die because there is no access to medical care?
Israel is enacting "From the River to the Sea" and Never Again is happening right before our eyes.
Mind Begs the Question:
- When not allowed to call a Govt/Nation Nazi
- Who use Starvation,Death Camps,Gas Chambers/White Phosphorus,Pogroms,Ethnic Cleansing,etc
- Living in Free World or Nazi World?
Masha is Jewish
You think the people in the Warsaw ghetto would have raped and burned and defiled people outside the ghetto had they had a chance? That’s why the comparison is, by definition, anti-Semitic.Masha is so wrong it boggles the imagination.
* their
Someone had to SAY what was stirring in the back of EVERYONE's minds :(
The analogy is apt, and the backlash is chilling. Just because your group has been abused doesn't give you a pass to abuse other groups. The lives of all are equally sacred.
Yes. This is the greatest challenge and lesson of our existence.
It's a great point she's making. Memory politics force the UPenn president to resign.
Hamas made us do it. (Sarcasm)
@@Anouargama
Netenyahoo Definitely caused the Anti-Semits around the world to Stand Up and Show themselves. 😢
@@paddyholly2184 What, did I strike a nerve? Keep accusing everyone and even people like me sympathetic to Jews of anti semitism and one day you might be surprised that Israel will have no friends left. Equating Jews with Israel is disgusting and a form of anti semitism. I have respect and love for Jews, but right wing Israel? Not so much. You actually believe that you can gaslight your way out of ethnic cleansing in Gaza 🤦🏻♂️
Masha Gessen, thanks for your courage and speaking the truth. You are a hero! Those awards, even if rescinded will be a badge of honor. Humanity will be ever grateful for speaking up against the Israeli genocide.
Mind Begs the Question:
- When Criminalized for calling a Govt/Nation Nazi
- Who use Starvation,Death Camps,Gas Chambers/White Phosphorus,Pogroms,Ethnic Cleansing,etc
- Living in Free World or Nazi World?
Gaza has shopping malls, office buildings, and beachfront property on the Mediterranean that people would pay millions of dollars to visit. It is also governed by an organization that is so lethal Egypt closed the border with it and flooded the Hamas tunnels with sewage. A government that built underground concrete bunkers they won’t let civilians use. That stole aid money to feed their Jihadist goals. People in the west act like this conflict began when they first heard about it.
So proud 👏
"A 'hero'? Does she/he/they stand for LGBTQ people persecuted on the streets in Muslim countries, in Gaza strip?
Does she/he/they stand for women of many nationalities raped and kidnapped into the Gaza Strip?
Is she/he/they an advocate for the Jewish American professor at USC who was targeted by pro-Hamas students and is currently barred from campus?
Anyone with a functioning brain and elementary moral sense would find the comparison perverse. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is between Israeli and Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
"If Israel wants to stop being compared to Nazis then they should stop behaving like Nazis"
Norman Finkelstein
Absolutely. The Nazis used roof-knockers, text messages, leaflets, and precision weapons to ensure to save civilian lives. It's exactly the same situation, for sure
Masha said the quiet part out loud (verbalized what a lot of Jews, who are critical of the Netanyahu government -- in Israel and in other countries) are thinking and saying.
Lots of quiet parts these days. It makes the world confusing for the people who are listening.
Yes. This is exactly what my Jewish friends are saying.
Gessen articulated what a lot of idiots have been thinking. Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
When the Arabs and the Israelis share common values there will be peace. Until then no peace. As a child raised in Israel I was never educated to hate?
Masha Gessen is a freaking hero to me. Timeless, sincere reporting going back years and years.
She has no covenant with God. Geshem Israel Geshem Israel elehenu Adonai Hashem. I was born March 11th in Bethlehem 61 years ago.
@jacovawernett3077 if you want to sound unhinged good job.
@daporter8790 if you want to insult me you will have to try harder. I am sane.
"A 'hero'? Does she/he/they stand for LGBTQ people persecuted on the streets in Muslim countries, in Gaza strip?
Does she/he/they stand for women of many nationalities raped and kidnapped into the Gaza Strip?
Is she/he/they an advocate for the Jewish American professor at USC who was targeted by pro-Hamas students and is currently barred from campus?
So true … brave woman
Masha Gessen is so courageous. I am so thankful they walk among us. More power to Masha Gessen. And respect to Michelle Martin for hosting. Great questions. Wow.
People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is between Israeli and Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
"Ilk"? How condescending. And what does that mean? People who are highly intelligent, fact-based in their analysis, compassionate and seeking peace? Do tell.@@sheilamacdougal4874
there was NOBODY in the Warsaw Ghetto launching missiles at the Nazis (unfortunately), nor were the Jews in the ghetto holding civilian hostages!!! Gessen is way, way too left on this and should be ashamed of herself.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 nice copypasta
Full agreement.
Thank you Amanpour & Co for giving Masha’s voice your platform.
Looks like a bot.
Amanpour is a known anti israel promoter and often supports antisemites. Gessen only shows up at jewhatibg interviewers. .
Takes two antisemites to make one show.
Thank you for this excellent interview, I hope it opens more people up to stopping this madness and creating a new, sustainable reality. Stop the war. Stop.
Why don't you ask to the Hamas killers to free the hostages and lay down the weapons,fool?
People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is between Israeli and Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
there was NOBODY in the Warsaw Ghetto launching missiles at the Nazis (unfortunately), nor were the Jews in the ghetto holding civilian hostages!!! Gessen is way, way too left on this and should be ashamed of herself.
Thank you so much for interviewing Masha 👏 They are a voice of wisdom in a difficult time.
This is a voice of stupidity in times needing moral clarity. Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 You would benefit from looking at images of what used to be Gaza city, although it might cause a lot of cognitive dissonance to admit what is happening. Claiming no one is dying of hunger is a form of denial that provides cover for mass murderers.
@@markrobinowitz8473 I follow the news closely in four languages, and would venture I'm rather more familiar with the situation than yourself. I have also been to Gaza and don'tneed to look at pre-war images. If you believe people have already died of starvation, then quote the reliable observer making that claim. Even al-Jazeera, the voice of Hamas, and UNRWA, the Hamas-entwined putative NGO, have not yet made that allegation. But it's obvious why you want to do so without evidence: because you want to accuse Israelis of being "mass murderers", as you say. It says much about you, little about Gaza.
She’s saying what Norman Finkelstein has been telling us for decades
Yes, she just has a much better approach. I hope people will listen and that more Jews will stand up for her
Yes. And he's been saying it tirelessly since this latest crisis began.
Edit: And he's calling it, without equivocation, a genocide. And an ethnic cleansing.
@@Flanke111 not sure one approach is better than the other they’re from different fields, Gessen is coming from a journalist perspective Finkelstein is a political scientist who spent time in Gaza & Israel. They’re very different however the one observation of the fact that Gaza has become a concentration camp is the same viewpoint. Though this is not new amongst Jews connected to the holocaust. Survivors and their descendants have been saying it for decades it’s just that Israel silences them by either paying 💰 to black list them as in the case of Finkelstein in universities or silence them altogether.
@wotiluv, agreed. I praise Gessen for the comment, and the fact that it caused such a stir reflects the sorry state of the Western world because of hysterical, excessive influence from The Tribe. Of course Gaza is very similar to what the Nazis did, and people who criticize her are as bad as the Nazis were. The Tribe criticizes Finkelstein even more than they criticize Gessen.
Oh this Fink ? A man of hatred who launches law suits against his own neighbours calling them apes and threatening to deport them and who pretends in front of you to be freedom defender? 😂😂😂😂😂
This is so powerful. We need more open and critical discussion. Thank you Masha for your voice.
I agree. What would be the best forum?
Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Masha is absolutely right. It's very much appreciated by many of us who are, (or were - I'm retired) journalists and will always stand with other seekers of truth..
Ms Gessen's writings and beliefs are profound. Listen to what she is saying.
ok
Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 If you believe Gessen and her words are perverse unintelligent, no one can help you. The situation in Gaza is perverse, and what Israel’s leader is doing is perverse by the way, children are starving there, but the US and others are trying to help with that. You are taking the equation too literally. Have a think.
@@s.d.3492 Leaving Hamas in power is perverse. Bigots suddenly become pacifists when Jews defend themselves. However, feel free to tell us when you protested that the Americans and British in Kandahar (2001), Mosul (2016), and WW2 were committing "genocide", given the much higher ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in those conflicts.
Hannah Arendt was not always easy to follow, but she demanded that we look at the behavior of men/women with fresh eyes (regarding our willingness to be a part of evil). Other than in the most simplistic way, I don’t see how Masha Gessen’s award is a slap in the face. It seems this important interview with Masha Gessen was an invitation to do the necessary work (similar to the way of Arendt), hard to hear at times but so critical for peacemaking.
Well Hannah Arendt got a lot of backlash for her work e.g. The Banality of Evil - probably the same type that try to conflate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism.
@@knowledgeispower6726 I didn't know she addressed Israel in that book.
But I have wondered why she called the book such, since she forgave her former boyfriend, Martin Heidegger for his nazi affiliation (poor, misled philosopher) - it often was more a case of 'the very warped complexity of evil'.
@@knowledgeispower6726 Who are the people behind this abominable movement to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism? The leaders of The Tribe.
Watched this interview. Masha is spot on! Here's a human being who is brave, intelligent, extremely well informed and so interesting to listen to Go, girl!
there was NOBODY in the Warsaw Ghetto launching missiles at the Nazis (unfortunately), nor were the Jews in the ghetto holding civilian hostages!!! Gessen is way, way too left on this and should be ashamed of herself.
Ms. Masha Gessen and whoever that supports her don't know anything about ghettos and concentration camps in Nazi Germany. What can you expect from someone who thinks that men can give birth?
They aren't a girl
@@markbeames7852 Not in the sense that you would comprehend.
😂🤣😂@@user-pt5eb6cz9l
Thank god we have such intelligent voices such as Masha Gessen. What is occurring, and what initially occurred are arocities. Why was Hamas not immediately condemned for crimes against humanity and brought to justice via that route? Instead of the destruction of Gaza? 2023 and we are still standing witness to the anniliation of a people? I am losing sleep. For the world I will be leaving for my granddaughter.
Bibi has dehumanized the Gazans.
Lol, intelligent? Gessen's arguments are perverse and precisely unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Hamas was condemned daily since October attacks, this is famine and genocide ffs
What a calm, well-researched and thought-through point Masha Gessen makes! I especially love them for saying: (and I paraphrase): Why should we treat people as stupid? There is no reason not to stop anti-semitism all over the world, at the same time as we criticise the State of Israel for their ethnic cleansing of Gaza (Palestine). To further their point they say earlier: People are saying the attack on Israel was anti-semitic, when it was in fact anti-Israel. This point is, IMO crucial; we must be able to criticise Israel and i's policies, without being called anti-semitic!
Great comment - thanks!
About 30% of American jews are officially anti-schematic, at least according to the new definition adopted by Congress.
Well said by Masha
There is also an insinuation of being unpatriotic when criticizing Israeli policies, by virtue of 75 years of unconditional support for Israel by the US.
Agreed. I also _try_ to direct criticism at the given party or leader rather than the country or government, so it's less inflammatory _(in this case Bibi)._
Excellent guest, knowledgeable, independent and clear thinker
Remarkable stupidity by Gessen and admirers. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is between Israeli and Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Gessen's thinking is clear as mud. Anyone with a functioning brain and elementary moral sense would find the comparison perverse. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is between Israeli and Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 The state of Israel practices racist policies. War is mental illness.
thank you for your spot on reply, I actually cant stand her unabashed hate of her own people@@sheilamacdougal4874
Why are we silencing people whom are critical of Israel? 🤨
That's what hypocrites do. Do as I say not as I do.
*who
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It’s a complicated question. I can’t answer it fully but I just wrote a grad research paper on this conflict, and here’s what I do know. Political leaders of the west have guilt from the atrocities of the holocaust. They also have Middle Eastern political, and strategic financial alliance interest with Israel and other countries in the region.
@@jcr-studios Nope! That ain’t it 😉
The honest, fearless truth…what a rare treat for my ears
Gessen is a genius. There is nothing in her article in Remnick’s thoughtful New Yorker that is outside intelligent, evidenced analysis.
We need more Masha Gessens.
Also Einstein not just Arendt was very concerned about Jewish moral
failure in Israel (cf. *Out of my Later Years*). -Jewish American atheist, former academic, long time Gessen reader.
Gessen's analogies and arguments are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874Trying to find only the points that support your thesis? WWII lasted 6 years. The first months didn't include mass extermination camps and they didn't include that much starvation either. Palestinians are already rounded up like in a ghetto and they are already experiencing disease and limited food, water and medicine. Hundreds of thousands are already displaces and their shelters are bombarded. It doesn't have to look identical to be in the same category. At the end of it, their method or ally-ship doesn't matter as much as the outcome itself or the motivation to attack. I'm heartbroken for the Jewish people to witness that being done to others. I know that they care even if the state of Israel doesn't. And I'm heartbroken for all the people (normal peaceful people that simply want to be left alone) to experience the horrors.
@@laliday "The first months" of WW2 "didn't include mass extermination camps and didn’t include that much starvation either." Lol. Let me let you in on a little secret: the first *years* of WW2 didn't include extermination or starvation because the Holocaust began in 1941. You just unwittingly delivered a reductio ad absurdum of Gessen's garbage, and your support of it. You inadvertently admit that the war in Gaza is *not* relevantly similar to the Holocaust, but is somehow similar to the period before the Holocaust, which somehow again makes it analogous to the Holocaust! No, Gaza is not relevantly similar to the Warsaw Ghetto, unless you believe the Warsaw Ghetto received billions of dollars from abroad with Nazi permission, had hundreds of foreign journalists reporting on conditions with full Nazi permission (including a network analogous to al-Jazeera's voice of Hamas), had dozens of NGOs operating with full Nazi permission, including NGO-run schools teaching killing of Germans as a religious duty, imported thousands of tons of cement with Nazi permission, which were diverted to build a massive terrorist network of tunnels, built hundreds of thousands of rockets which the Jews would regularly fire randomly at civilians outside the ghetto, was run by an elected government with no German troops inside the ghetto, a government which for years openly espoused the "liberation" of all German land, and many other absurdities. These aren't minor imprecisions in an otherwise instructive analogy. Rather, they show that the analogy is both preposterous and malicious. As for your faux heartbreak for the Jewish people witnessing this when the only Jewish-majority state is forced to defend itself, which you oppose, please....
World is starving for more Masha Gessens. There's 8 billion precious humans today and every year another 80 million net new precious humans join us. War is incompatible with rhe world today. We face civilization threatening problems which requires peace and cooperation. Thanks as always to the wonderful team at Amanpour and company. Ms Martin is just fantastic interviewer
It's remarkable how people suddenly become pacifists when Jews are defending themselves. Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
It's an international disgrace: The work that Masha Gessen did to merit the Hannah Arendt award is not canceled by one article, especially by an article that dared to address the ongoing ethnic cleansing being conducted by Isaeli forces in Gaza.
Netanyahu is the Israeli Trump.
I agree that people should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 and here it is! copypasta number seven.
Well said, you're absolutely right - Gessen's analogies should disqualify her from receiving the Hannah Arendt award.
@@lisar3944 Interesting, even morons can count.
she is so decent and honest
Yes. They truly seem to have these excellent virtues in abundance.
He.
This man is out of his mind
Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent, although people should be allowed to make stupid analogies. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 Six copypastas! I'm salivating in anticipation of number 7....
I literally got a chill when you said Israel uses the Holocaust because it so horrifically and disrespectfully does use the Holocaust to do the terrible things it has done to innocent Palestinian civilians for years
Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 A rare voice of reason here. My direct questions were removed. Not just Hamas, most of the Arab street celebrates openly atrocities on Jews - and most Westerners. And we cheer them on. 😞
@@willdon.1279 Gessen follows a well-trodden path of posing as a "hero" to the mob, taking rank virtue-signaling to a new depth.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 copypasta number five - simply amazing - you go, Sheila!
"innocent civilians" do not rape, kidnap, murder children, and shoot thousands of rockets. Get your facts straight.
It is known in the field of human psychology, that often the abused become abusers themselves. This also happens on a societal level. On all sides of any conflict. Trauma is powerful.
Palestinians may be Hitler’s final victims
Yes and the end of the day. Israeli and some Jews are reacting like abusers who have been abused. The question why western countries who did create the UN and international low let Israel being an abuser towards Palestinians for so long? They are not traumatized but they needed the partnership with Israel at all costs! Politics will alway a cynical machine
It’s an oft repeated line, yet the theory and study it was based on are seriously flawed. The only portion of it that had somewhat similar outcomes in repeated studies was male sexual abuse, but even then the data was not conclusive. To project a flawed westernized psychological view on a nation/ethnicity is a bit much
So true.
I also believe that treating people as if they are stupid is a mistake.
This guest does a much better job than I, rationalizing it for their self.
My rationalization is, expectation determines reality aka: one often meets their destiny on the path taken to avoid it aka: can't avoid something if you don't find it first,
Accidentally not accidentally on purpose is to seek to avoid things.
My hope is to pass on what I know. Nothing more. I had no intention of commenting until this masterful guest concluded their interview and inspired me.
Thank you for allowing comments.
This is powerful. Can you please post the full unedited interview? Masha's likely comments about the United States (3:56) are especially of interest.
Powerful bullshit, to be more precise. Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Thank you Masha for speaking the TRUTH despite the obvious undeserved backlash. Many thanks.
Lie. Stupid lie.
What? You can't handle the truth? Too bad, we are going to keep telling the truth about what is happening.@@Boymanjusri
Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Thank you! Right on!@@sheilamacdougal4874
Thank you for your courage, Masha, on this and on all of the tough issues you have addressed in your work.
Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
The results are very similar.
Why is it a shame to be antisemitic and not anti-islamic!?
Please note that I respect aĺl religions, and all are not important for me.
Important human beings with their beautiful differences.
Palestinians are as Semitic as Israelis but the Israelis have forgotten that.
because Jews do not blow world trade centers, kill if someone makes a caricature of Moses, do not force their women to cover their faces; the Jews don't teach hatred toward non-Jews, don't rape Muslim women and cut the heads of their children; they also don't take and kill hostages. Ponder for a moment.
Потому что от ислама удобно отгородились в США и Европе. Как только мусульмане смогут превратить какой-нибудь регион западных стран в шариатское гетто (по настоящему), шоры спадут.
This has been written about by both Fanon and Freire, when the abused become the abusers. A well-known, by now, psychological principle.
Interesting the professor does not talk about other Jewish experiences of exile and genocide before the Holocaust. There are many majority Arab countries who long ago exiled all Jews.
For literally thousands of years hateful people have tried to exterminate the Jewish people, and HAMAS - the illiberal and antidemocratic terrorist group - is merely the newest iteration of that intense hatred.
What is Israel supposed to do to defend itself from a terrorist organization who intentionally hides behind women and children?
The intolerance for Israel is becoming intolerable. I for one am grateful that today the Jewish people can defendd themselves against those who wish them dead.
It's common rubbish. Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Sad sack.
To be fair, there are plenty of Jews who would call Gessen an anti-Semite, not just non-Jews who run large organizations and right wing American politicians. Most, practically all, American Jewish organizations fully support Israel and allow little to no room for criticism within its ranks - it's considered nearly traitorous to question what Israel is currently doing in Gaza. As a person who works for such and org - in a low level administrative position - I keep my head down and so do serveral senior staff members who harbor alternative criticism. Gessen has a platform and they've used it well and articulately.
This is not the case among atheistic and non-religious Jews especially in the academy, elite journalism, and tech. About half my friends are ethnically Jews in these communities and none support Israeli policy toward Palistinians. I think and thank Noam Chomsky for over decades changing the minds of Jews, many of whom, like me, suffered early and unrelenting pro-Israeli propaganda as a child.
Those standing with Israel, even as their leaders express open intent to commit genocide and then go on to enact genocide in Palestine are fomenting antisemitism. In contrast Jews, like Masha Gessen who carefully define and expose Israels genocide diffuse and dissipate antisemitism.
As a an amateur researcher and WWII buff, particularly the European theater, I have had this exact same thought. Thank you, Masha. Spot on.
As a human being I am so proud and grateful to Masha Gessen and wish her the best.
Fact: Einstein compared Israeli policy to the Nazi policy 😉
Can you provide your source please?
@@Lobishomem Google: Einstein and Zionism 😉
@@iamthenews5624Einstein loved and supported Israel. Endless sources will confirm it.
Einstein was an avowed Zionist and was in fact invited to be the second President of Israel after Chaim Weizmann died in 1952. His personal archives are housed in the Hebrew University in Israel. In a 1947 letter to Jawaharlal Nehru, he wrote, "The Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the rights and protections which even the smallest people normally has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples... The advent of Hitler underscored with a savage logic all the disastrous implications contained in the abnormal situation in which Jews found themselves. Millions of Jews perished... because there was no spot on the globe where they could find sanctuary...The Jewish survivors demand the right to dwell amid brothers, on the ancient soil of their fathers."
@@davidfranklin5434 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Masha gessen is amazing. I’ve always respected them but I think my respect has skyrocketed recently. They’re a star.
Oopsi, you’ve got it wrong. It’s a him. Maybe them. But def not a she. Get your sex references right, buddy
@@june1319 thanks and fixed.
@@darkright3001 I like how you responded to a transphobic and bad-faith comment by gracefully fixing an unintentional misgendering. And strong agree about Masha Gessen! What they're saying in this segment is so important, and I'm grateful to Amanpour & Co. for platforming them.
Masha Gessen speaks with moral authority and moral clarity. What a brave women! We welcome her thoughts and insights.
Except this comparison is no comparison. Jews didn't turn down a state that granted them 80% of the land as the Arabs did in 1937-38. Jews weren't given the option to stay in their homes. The palistine/arabs could have stayed under belfour but instead attacked (5 arab nations against 1) thus started a war causing the death and displacements of the nekba while ruining the belfour. Jews did nothing to warrant being locked away,starved,beaten,used as live human experiments, gassed and killed by the millions. Palistinians devovotion to killing jews destroying israel with constant attacks and waves of teen suicide bombers is why Israel and Egypt placed blockades. Israel isnt teaching children to hate Palistinians, theres nearly 2 million palistinians living in israel,they serve on governing party and can be anything from simple civians to judges and doctors..In Gaza kids are taught to hate jews from birth,in elementary they're taught how to invade a methods to kill and take hostages, by there teens aspire to blow themselves up killing jews.
ua-cam.com/video/vCWMBvxWKL0/v-deo.htmlsi=o6bXlIQMrlj1VMmO
ua-cam.com/video/SPQj0vzkSTA/v-deo.htmlsi=oyJbJHMl-Y7j80Yz
ua-cam.com/video/1sDZlo_hllI/v-deo.htmlsi=bOrqP2_9D0IReXbF
Sad these kids have been taught to do the exact thing that keeps them stuck.
"A 'brave'?
Does she/he/they stand for LGBTQ people persecuted on the streets in Muslim countries/ in Gaza strip?
Does she/he/they stand for women of many nationalities raped and kidnapped into the Gaza Strip?
Is she/he/they an advocate for the Jewish American professor at USC who was targeted by pro-Hamas students and is currently barred from campus?
Gessen speaks with moral perversity and stupidity. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Masha is like the boy who said the emperor has no clothes. We're all thinking this and everyone is afraid to say it.
What the Israelis have done to Gaza is very similar to what happened in Warsaw, 1944.
Israelis should think about that .
As articulate as ever. Gessen is a treasure. Thanks for giving the truth some space.
Mr. It's a man.
Yep, a treasure for Anti Israeli propaganda, paid for her "work" by Anti Israeli lobby.
A treasure trove of nonsense. Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Masha Gessen is a favorite. Thanks for this interview.
We are all human beings. We need to act as brothers and sisters on this small planet. Amen
Who, with an ounce of humanity in their body, would find comparing Israel and the IDF with the nazis to be unreasonable or controversial?
Just check the comments here. Lots of actual antisemites or affiliated bots, it's too hard to tell now. Perhaps we need to remind them what war is, and why it's a bad idea to start one. Ask Germany about it's 300K to 500K civilian dead due to US bombings, or the Japanese with their at least 500K and perhaps over a million dead from the US bombing campaigns - fire, conventional, and nuclear. War is hell, don't attack a country if you don't want to face the consequences.
"Woke" applies. Sad times.
Anyone with a functioning brain and elementary moral sense would find the comparison perverse. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is between Israeli and Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
These are the voices that we need to hear - Masha Gessen speaking with authority and without fear of being branded a traitor to the cause.
On the Israel/Gaza disaster Amanpour is a rare CNN standout - a journalist prepared to present critical perspectives that other colleagues at the network, e.g. Jake Tapper and Anderson Cooper, fail to offer to audiences.
Agree
I concur with your sentiments, @bondirimski, but in this particular instance, Amanpour is being presented by and on PBS. The American Public Broadcasting System, which could be equivalent with ProPublica is ONLY the government would do their part (along with that portion of the American public that contributes) to make it a great, PUBLIC network. (Without programs having to be "sponsored" by CORPORATIONS.
Masha Gessen is only a sentence or two away from being called a nazi.
Masha Gressen you are amazing and clear in ur understanding
7:46 "We should lose sleep every day because of what is happening in Gaza"
Thanks for providing some validation for my last 6 weeks
Lose sleep, not "loose sleep"!
@@revealview sure, you are right. Thanks
Gessen was right. Gessen didn't have to justify anything because it is observable to all willing to look at it honestly.
Thank you so much for bringing on that talk. As a German I am deeply saddened how the fear of calling out an anti-Semite by speaking out against the aggressions and cruelty by Israel’s government has become common official talk. Did we learn nothing?
As a German, one should not talk, you've done enough talking last century. But if you insist, then talk about the murders of Israelis, raping Jewish girls, kidnapping, shooting thousands of rockets into the cities (to kill civilians), and teaching children in Gaza to kill all Jews. Why aren't you "saddened" by that?
One holocaust does not justify another
Spot on!
Gessen helps to articulate compassionately what many Jews and Gentiles have long been concerned. There is nothing in her argument that endorses the absolute cruelty of Hamas on 10/7/2023 or suicide bombings.
I'm not sure about that. Arguments like hers are used to justify the massacre or
to make it seem "inevitable". She may not have meant to endorse it, but she inadvertently, implicitly did.
@@susanmiller7560Internal victim hood no longer works when you commiting genocide
Thanks NPR. Great stuff. Masha Gessen is terrific. The truth of what's being said is plain. We really do need to wonder why it's so difficult to say it.
PBS
@@markbeames7852Lol, you can't even get right the network, let alone the fraught issue of historical analogies. Gessen's analogies are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Amazing as always Masha
Great interview. Thankyou for hosting this.
I Stan Marsha Gessan💫
She is a true intellectual who carefully examines socio-political issues, in good faith, and empathetic succinct analysis.
It'd be nice to have some names of people "silenced" in Germany. I live there and am not aware this happened.
This is hardcore political thought.
Masha you are one of my heros...thank you!
Ms Gessen is such a powerful voice because her thinking is so rigorous yet easily understood. And relatable. I’m a longtime fan. Thank you, Ms Gessen.
Gessen's thinking is as rigorous as muddy swamp. Her arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
They is a vital speaker for this time. A truth-teller who has the courage to speak out.
I completely agree with her overview.
You completely agree with stupidity. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
Masha is absolutely correct that the memory of Jewish sufferings in the past have been shamelessly exploited by the State of Israel and people who support Israeli govt policies no matter what.
their past victimhood provided them with a "holocaust license- act with impunity. no criticism allowed"
The worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust occurred only two months ago, and started this war. Maybe use your head a little bit. Gessen's arguments and analogies are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
❤ Masha Gessen. The courage and clarity of thinking!
Thank you Masha for staying objective.
Lol, objective? Gessen's arguments are perverse and unintelligent. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 if Palestinian life is the way u see it, may u have that beautiful life, as beautiful as theirs.
@@msaltanat83 Sorry, but your reply is utterly incoherent in relation to anything I said.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 just as yours
@@msaltanat83 My toddler replies like that. Congratulations.
I agree with Masha. Endless victims spend their lives whining about misfortune instead of using horror to create a different life.
Donald Trump is a prime example of that.
That misses the mark. Being a victim once could be understood as a ‘misfortune’, that should not define, and therefore limit subsequent life. However, living in a structure of domination is an injustice that does not end. Being regarded with lower moral worth limits agency until it stops. So someone advocating on their own behalf isn’t whining, they are asking to not be a victim any longer.
brilliant thinker, brilliant interview
Thanks Masha ❤❤❤❤
Being critical of the Israeli government is not anti-semitic. Its a term used to stop discussion and debate
The Israeli soldier that killed my aunt Huda Huwaja in Aida Bethlehem smiled on camera and said he was purifying the land. I will add this video to my Palestine history playlist with my aunts video. Thank you for your hard work.
💯🤲🇵🇸
Just so refreshing for someone to talk about this whole issue honestly. Whatever "side" you're on. Motivation is not justification, and what is happening in the Gaza ghetto bespeaks all the times in history where those in power have exercised it, unmercifully.
Masha is always the best! Congratulations for your honesty and commitment to the truth! 🌟🌟🌟🌟
When they say negative “prejudice” against the Jewish state… they mean “legally” that her POV will cause harm to the Jewish State… which validates Masha’s point… which is that Israel is always the victim 😉
Which is the definition of antisemitism, hatred of Jews. It transforms through history, but the commonality is the same victims.
Exactly
Their perspective is always so insightful.
God bless you 🙏 you are the voice of those hopeless people ❤
Such a smart woman
you must've never met really smart ones.
When are you going to invite Chris Hedges on your show?
Edit: Or Norman Finkelstein?
Or Gabor Maté?
Norman is a freak.
Only Jews can criticize Jews therefore some Jews go to extremes.
A quote from A. Movchan's Article ' Broken Syllogism' (traslated fro Russian):
"A broken syllogism is exactly what Masha Gessen uses in her article. The comparison of Gaza with the Warsaw Ghetto is no more justified than comparing the war between Russia and Ukraine with the fight against fascism. Actually, the only basis for the comparison is that in both cases, more well-armed forces successfully attack the weaker on their territory. But the similarities end there. The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto never attacked the Germans - neither military nor civilians - before the Germans came to their territory; they had no idea of destroying all Germans and taking Germany's territory for themselves; they did not burn German children, did not torture and rape German women, did not celebrate the killings of Germans. Today's Jews of Israel (and not only Jews, by the way) have never sought to destroy the inhabitants of Gaza or occupy their territory - on the contrary, they have consistently tried to separate from them and only the constant terrorist threat from Gaza prevented this from being completed; they still declare the same. Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto died from hunger and cold, unlike the residents of Gaza, whose number has grown faster than in Israel all these years, and the standard of living was higher than in neighboring Arab countries. There were no 13,000 UN employees in the Warsaw Ghetto, bringing in weapons and materials for fortifications. The leaders of the ghetto were not billionaires and did not live in luxury in other countries. The Germans who destroyed the Warsaw Ghetto were not peaceful neighbors to all other countries, reliable partners who actively come to the aid of all who need it - they were aggressive invaders. The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto did not have 50 countries, mainly populated by Jews, with a total area 50 times larger than Germany (while the Arabs of Gaza have such countries)."
Can't be said better!
Thank you for this concise rebuttal.
Masha, what a wonderful voice for justice and such integrity. Thank you! #freepalestine
American evangelicals have adopted and exploited this strategy and ' shared ' it around the world.
“We should loose every sleep because of what happens in Gaza”.
Only a genuine peace loving person would say that.
I've read "The Diary of the Warsaw Ghetto" and other accounts from several other ghettos. I've wondered what they would have been like if there was CNN and social media to share their experiences in real time with a global audience. The liquidation of Gaza Ghetto isn't exactly the same thing but the differences don't exonerate the horrors.
Whatever the differences "exonerate", they amply show the perversity and imbecility of the analogy. Take even your fantasy about CNN in the Warsaw ghetto. You think the Nazis would have allowed it? It's additional proof of the utter stupidity and malice in such a comparison. People should be allowed to make stupid analogies, and that's what Gessen is doing. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 Mark Twain said history doesn't repeat but sometimes it rhymes. Yes, the liquidation of Gaza Ghetto isn't quite at the level of brutality of Warsaw but that's no relief for the two million people being bombed, displaced, starved, deprived of drinking water, etc. The UN Convention Against Genocide doesn't require Auschwitz level murder to be a violation - targeting populations to deprive them of the basics of life constitutes genocide, especially if done deliberately. Since morality doesn't work with everyone, consider how Israel's attacks are strategically counterproductive and further increase the bitterness and desire for revenge (and vice versa, with the attack of Oct. 7). Fun fact: the town my grandfather was born in (and he left as a baby, fortunately) experienced ghettoization and then the Einsatzgruppen, so I don't have any illusions about what the German Nazis did.
@@markrobinowitz8473 Mark Twain also cautioned not to argue with stupid people, but I'll put that aside for now and reply. For some policy to constitute genocide, let's agree that many people have to die from it. No one has died in Gaza from starvation or thirst. That immediately rules out that privation of food and thirst has constituted a policy of genocide. That addresses only one necessary condition of a policy's being genocide; it leaves out other jointly necessary and sufficient conditions, which are also lacking. Israel has allowed into Gaza literally hundreds of truckloads of supplies by now. Much of the supplies have reportedly been stolen by the terrorist groups. Apparently there has also been a significant failure of UN distribution, creating a bottleneck at the Erez crossing in particular. Notice that Gessen has zero to say about any aid delivery problems, shortages, or policies, about which one has to learn from other reports. Her objective is not explanation but virtue-signaling, and "hero"-signaling in a now well-trodden path. She herself hesitated to claim genocide was an IDF policy, introducing instead a hare-brained distinction that some make between genocide and ethnic cleansing (the latter Serbian term being particular offensive as it reflects a racist perspective of a perpetrator). The distinction, whatever it's supposed to be, is irrelevant here. There is no policy of deliberate starvation or dehydration. The civilian casualties have nearly all been caused by bombing from the air. It's a war, and wars are ugly. Urban wars against jihadi terrorists ensconced among civilian populations are particularly ugly. The estimated death toll in Mosul alone in the Iraqi-American-British war against ISIS is estimated at 60,000, with the historic city centre entirely flattened. One can have a long conversation about what the IDF is aiming to do, its method of doing it, and the morality of every aspect of it. Gessen shows no particular interest in such a discussion; her interest is legitimising comparisons between Israel and Nazis, long a staple of anti-Israel hate propaganda, and gleaning the notoriety therefrom.
@@sheilamacdougal4874 Twain was also an anti-imperialist and opposed the US war on the Philippines (which was an unpopular view). People are definitely denying in Gaza of hunger, thirst, preventable disease. There are no shortages of public health and human rights experts that have documented this, but mere facts can't persuade those wedded to ideology. "What-about-ism" is a logical fallacy, deflecting concern to other atrocities (there are an endless supply to choose from). Netanyahu is on record citing a particularly nasty Bible story that called for slaughtering entire populations in the context of what his administration is doing to Gaza, there's no shortage of documentation of statements of intent. It's also been charged that is why Gaza has had a record number of reporters killed (versus comparable wars), to keep the story suppressed as much as possible ... and also spread propaganda that downplays the severity. There are people who downplay the atrocities that Hamas did on October 7, which is grotesque, but downplaying the destruction of the homes of two million people and forcing them all to become refugees and barely having enough food and water to survive is also grotesque. The lesson of the Holocaust is "never again, for anyone" but some people are blind to the second part.
The UN Convention Against Genocide ...
Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
@@sheilamacdougal4874 Primo Levi, who survived a year in Auschwitz, was very upset by Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982. He said every society has its Jews and today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.
brilliant Masha Gessen 💯 I wish she would spread the word in Russian too
Literal Orwellian times we're living in.
I agree with this journalist’s clear and courageous assessments. We do need more courageous journalists, and people from all walks of life to follow her example, and maybe the killing of innocent civilians in Gaza can be stopped.
Masha Gessen is going viral.
Masha Gessen deserved the Hannah Arendt Prize for Political Thought. He makes a lot of sense.
The world is indebted to such a clear thinker and vocal advocate for humanity to prevail
its amazing that these critics cannot see that they are proving her point. very happy to see this conversation on a mainstream news program.
Masha is 100 percent correct in her assessment of the situation. Israel has lost its way as a moral society.
It was never moral to begin with let’s not fool ourselves. The nation was birthed by terrorising and expelling Palestinians from their lands and homes. And then that nation was maintained by violently permanently militarily occupying Palestinians.
It has never been a moral society, it has been based on ethnic cleansing and apartheid from the beginning. The only thing that has changed is that they have finally dropped all pretense of civilization.
And the Western powers have lost their way with it.
And what about Hamas?
@@OmEvul1415what about whataboutism
I love you , Masha!💕 you are an awesome person!!❤Stay strong.
Gessen's arguments and analogies are perverse and unintelligent. The apt comparison is to Allied bombing, which at times was susceptible to criticism for being indiscriminate or disproportionate, though far more so than IDF bombing. Allies never dropped leaflets telling Germans or Japanese to vacate areas, nor did they allow humanitarian aid to be sent to civilians, which they would have regarded as insane. Yet if you can't distinguish between Allied and Nazi policy you shouldn't be publishing nor be published, let alone winning prizes. The comparison to Nazis is plain stupid. No civilians are being rounded up and taken to extermination camps. There are no extermination camps. There is no policy of extermination. Gessen, as is typical of her ilk, has zero suggestion for what the IDF should do. She says that while 1.3 million Jews died in the Holocaust from starvation, there is a difference: Gazans are still alive and we can do something. Let's make that a bit more accurate: the main difference is that zero Palestinians have died of starvation, which tells you something about how smart the anology between Israeli and Nazi policy is.
@@sheilamacdougal4874"There are no extermination camps"
30k civilians killed in 4 months in Gaza by indiscriminate Israeli bombing of residential areas and the deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure
Water, electricity and fuel supplies cut off to over 2 million civilians as Israel's first action following October 7th
References to 'Amalek' by Netanyahu echoed by Israeli soldiers on the ground talking and even singing about the extermination of all Gazans
Arnon Soffer, the strategist who developed Israel's plan for the blockade and siege of Gaza in 2006, referred to a time when "...the pressure at the border will be intense. We will have to kill, and kill and kill. All day, every day."
But sure. "No extermination camps". Sure.
@@ColinBennun Your smug rehearsal of the standard litany that South Africa presented, with a bonus quotation from some shmuck in 2006 that has zero relation to the present conflict, will convince only Israel haters already believing every accusation against Jews and Israel so dear to tthe haters. The blockade in the first week was an effort to get the hostages back as quickly as possible. I agree that bigots and morons would call that "genocide" even though zero people died because of it, and the same people no doubt are certain that Israel has an obligation to supply the terrorists holding its civilians hostage. In the entire war, the overall casualty rate of civilians to armed combatants is 1.5 to 1, unprecedentedly low in urban warfare, which is typically between 5 to 1 and 9 to 1, (sometimes much higher), including in Mosul, Kandahar, and much higher rates in Allied warfare against Germany and Japan. However, I agree again that people with a special hatred for the Jewish state will think the unprecedented low ratio of civilian to combatant (actually terrorist) casualties constitutes "genocide", while Allied and Coalition campaigns against Nazi Germany, imperialist Japan, the Taliban and al-Qaeda, and ISIS, did not.
@@ColinBennun Your rehearsal of South Africa's litany of favourite cherry-picked quotes, plus an irrelevant one from some guy in 2006, will not be taken seriously by any informed and impartial person. In the first week after Oct. 7, Israel cut off electricity, water, and aid in an effort to pressure Hamas to release the hostages. Zero people died as a result. One usually doesn't have to explain that zero deaths does not constitute genocide; among Israel-haters, however, that's apparently controversial at best. For three months no restrictions on water, electricity, or food aid has come from the Israeli side.
The overall casualty ratio of civilians to combatants has been 1.5 to 1, unprecedentedly low in modern urban warfare. The ratio in the coalition's war on ISIS in Mosul, war on the Taliban in Kandahar in 2001, the Allied campaign against Germany and Japan, was several fold higher. Feel free to tell us when you accused those military efforts of perpetrating genocide.
Thank you very much for this Interview with Masha Gessen. I agree completely with what she says. I have studien newer german history and therefore for me too this comparison is obvious.❤
Hanna arendt would be proud to have a such intelligent student. Thank you for your work.
I really LIKE Marsha Gessen and fully support her. She is very brave and she (more importantly) is right.
I drew the same conclusion a month ago. Gaza is like a ghetto. Same thing.
The world should acknowledge this!
When Masha is critical of Putin, the President of their country of origin, they win awards and praises from the public. When Masha is critical of the Israeli State, they’re ridiculed by their own Jewish community and stripped of those accolades. The double standard is stark.
Actually Putin just put Masha on his wanted list for alleged crimes against Russia. Masha is exiled, queer and Jewish, but has more balls than most soldiers, criticizing Israel and Russia enough to shatter the image they’re trying to project.
Hahahaha… why live in a country that sponsor Nazi? Please leave. Marsha.
Can she be right on Putin and wrong on Israel? If the answer is "Yes," where is double standard?
@@talmudovskySadly, there are too many ignorant followers even here…
@@dimka2006 They suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder. They have to have sweet lollipop self-gratification from sensation that they are important in order to forget about low and boring life they carry out. They would gobble any lie or perversion just to maintain their illusory unity with other zombified clones without whom their self-esteem is as good as punched balloon.
Over the years, I've given this idea ample thought: How will the world recognize "Never again" when it's on our doorstep? Again. With somber and sober clarity, Masha Gressen has articulated the chilling reality that "Never again" is happening. Again.
Thank you for promoting complex thought.
My heart goes out to all people who are suffering.
My middle finger goes out to all the people who are causing it!!
Peace love and solidarity!!!
Excellent! I am going to quote you anonymously
Criticizing Israel is not criticizing Jews. Criticizing Israel is not criticizing Israelis.
Criticizing Netanyahu and his far right cabinet is hitting the nail on the head.
The reality is Netanyahu has chosen this "no Palestinian left behind" genocide policy. His refusal to even seriously discuss the two state solution, his reticense in rushing aid, food, medecine, to civilians (both Isreali hostages and Palestinians) is more than a little shocking.
But it's his adamant refusal to to talk aid, ceasefire, negotiation or peace is the bottom line.
Whatever it takes, however long it takes, to wipe Palestinians - and every vestige of their homes, work, families and lives - off the map of the Middle East, is his singular goal.
Because like Trump in the west, Netanyahu in the Middle East seems more focused on using a seemingly never-ending war to extend HIS freedom by avoiding prison, than doing the job of a leader... to protect and defend his citizens, and to do everything in his power to avoid inflicting inhuman murder and suffering on innocent humans.
And we're ALL humans, with an equal right to life and liberty.
Every single one of us.
Excellently put.