Very nice job pulling this video together and doing the research. I stayed at their place in Rutland last year when I hiked the Long Trail...I kept an open mind going into it given some things I had heard previously. Overall everyone was very nice and even though the restaurant was closed they invited all the hikers to join their private family dinners and breakfast. I did have a sense they are very selective and likely "train" the folks that are public facing. I noticed at least one of the guys was a rather young (early to mid 20's) and was an experienced thru hiker - I felt this was almost a way to gain commonality with potential recruits..just a guess. Women were definitely much more reserved and there were a few times you could tell they were cautious what they said when they spoke. One thing that struck me as odd - a friend asked a very pointed question related to free will. It was quite clear once you joined they could essentially send you. to live/work at any of their locations and the individual basically has no say because they are serving a higher purpose. Personally I think the idea of living in a community could be nice for some folks, but when you have little to no say and no free will that's another story. I'd encourage every thru hiker to go there for the experience but do so with an open mind - don't get stuck there as some folks appeared to do when I was there. Anyway that was my experience and some things I noticed.
Thank you for that detailed description of your experience. I agree in that everyone was really nice. Overall I thought they were an enjoyable group of people. It is a slippery slope when there isn’t a lot of individual say in matters as serious as where you live, do for work, eat.. say.
@@taratreks 🤣🤣.. that was my first concern coming into a Bahai home!! (In Lake Oswego, Oregon..) A dentist later told me "one dose last a lifetime.. " 🤣🤣.. ☆£☆... It is very good news, community can be hard to find, though.. May your family be a blessing!! :)
Oh man, I spent a couple nights with them in Warsaw Missouri while hitchhiking. I had bumped into them in Springfield and they told me about their commune, but didn’t mention the religious aspect. So I went and stayed with them for a couple nights and whilst there was incorporated into a recruitment routine that includes helping with chores, particularly the the garden, and all the yerba mate I could stomach. During the conversations they learned I was buying a small farm in Kansas. I was feeling a bit antsy to get out of there (because I really wanted to cigarette) and they asked if they could send info in the mail. I gave them my address and hit the road. A few months later a van load of them just showed up at my house! They really wanted me to join, presumably, because I owned a patch of 40 acres and an old farm house that would, of course, become property of the organization had I joined. As someone who is fond of all the vices, I sent them on their way. I mean, I may be a degenerate, but I’m also a nice guy who appreciated their hospitality, so they left with fresh produce from my gardens and an understanding there was no hope for conversion.
In 2000 I met a young woman who "escaped" from TT. Her parents hounded that poor girl for weeks until she turned 18. The things she told me about her experiences will haunt me for a long time to come. We ended up taking her to a friend's house near Weslaco TX. She stayed there for a year, changed her name legally and we have since lost contact since 2004. The mental, emotional and physical (sa) abuse on kids in this group is disturbing. They are predatory in nature. I cannot advise people more to stay away from YD's, their trail camps, and contact. The lack of medical care to members is had a terrible effect on her greater family. She unlike many new members had both 1 set of gparents and her parents within the group. She haf been told her mother's parents were dead. We found them living in Kentucky, they offered to allow her to come there but she decided it would only cause more drama.
@@jonyoung6405 Any reply with details would be likely removed for content unbecoming to civilized society. SA, DV, forced child labor not to mention mental and emotional abuse using extreme religious ideology as a weapon are just scratching the surface as to what she was subjected to the first 17 years of her life. I will not go into further details, maybe someday she will feel comfortable enough to share her experiences with the public on her own. All I can say is that what she told me in confidence was more than I was ready to deal with in my 20's. I had no idea what to say or how to help her. Even the gesture of a hug was frightening and foreign to her without abuse immediately following it.
This group has dangerous cult written all over it. The first red flag is trying to separate you from your family. Having said that…. I grew up on a farm and started working in the fields at 5 years old. It wasn’t abuse. My family needed me and I helped them, it was just that simple.❤️🤗🐝
Of all the things for somebody to take offense to, working with your family from a young age is the exact opposite of abuse, it is a gift... Provided you aren't risking life and limb too seriously doing it.
@@microcolonel Absolutely. Now, I understand there are abusive situations that happen. Some little children are worked much too hard for their ages. I’m not denying that at all. But you can’t lump all farm work by children as abuse. That is simply not true. Most farm families love their children dearly and are only trying to instill a sense of responsibility in them.
I started watching your videos yesterday by finding them on you tube. I am very particular about you tube content I watch. You have a great voice for video and presence! Keep up the good work and thank you for helping inform me of interesting information that will help me on future Appalachian hikes!
Did the PCT a couple of years ago and Appalachia Trail is next on my list. So thank you for putting out this video. Very informative. I have run into these people before, at a Grateful Dead concert along the east coast(late 1980s I think). They seamed very hip and friendly at the time. I knew they were part of a commune but didn't catch their name and what they were really about. Anyway. You did a great job with this video. I will know what to look out for when I hike the Appalachia. Thanks
My mother and complicit, compliant farther reminds me a lot of this group’s beliefs and behaviors toward children even though they did not belong to a cult. These beliefs about children do a lot of psychological harm to children and provides a lot of cover for the abusive parents. My mother hid behind the cover of not spanking your child is ruining the country and she let people believe she was doing what other people were doing by not going into the details of how she carried out her spankings. My mother (and father) was lucky she raised my brother and I in the seventies and eighties because my cousin treated her children the same way in the oughts and had them taken away. My cousin is not allowed to have contact with her children per court order.
your just passing on the right to forcibly confine children to the court system .. theres tons of kids in canada in the court system (jails ) called group homes .. they are beaten and forced to take medication, even put in mental hospitals ..most of them are just run aways and confused. now face years of court charges
So many adults come away from abuse convinced that they weren't abused because it was "just" spanking. Then they suffer PTSD and depression among other things. Childhood abuse/trauma affects brain development. *trigger warning for spanking with things other than hands.. Then their "normal" spanking stories include extreme pain, belts, belt buckles, paddles, wooden spoons, switches, yard sticks... bruises, being unable to sit, welts, bloody legs...the list goes on and on. There is almost no way that a switch doesn't cause physical damage. EVEN if it doesn't cause visible injury it's extremely painful. That is child abuse. Plain and simple. Normalizing it is extremely harmful.
Ex cult-member here (mormon). For some more detailed, academic info on cults, how they are classified, and the specific warning signs and tips for handling/recover from them, look up Steven Hasson's Bite Model.
Wow...never heard of this group , till now...Never knew about these types of groups on the AT,CDT,PCT etc... Very interesting....a Cult without the URE.. (CULT+URE) Thanks for expanding the Hikers Situational Awareness... Be safe on the Trails.
A couple of things that would be interesting to know about TT. What fraction of children born into the group stay as adults? What is their policy regarding contact between members who leave the group and friends and relatives who remain in the group?
I grew up in Ithaca ny and the twelve tribes is active there, they had a cafe called the mate factor that was pretty good but I never knew anything about them and nobody I asked seem to know much either so I’m fascinated to hear more
I found you somehow after searching "tramily" on the AT TRAIL, as I intend to hike my own hike for weight loss and improvement of BMI, meaning I will not have time or intent to bond and fall back to regular consumption habits. Then I run into your video. Harrummmpf ! We have Hutterites in Montana, and this all seems familiar, plus, my significant other is a biblical scholar. I need the AT for a track for my high I get hiking, but I have zero tolerance for young people who got trophies for attendance or believe in the old hippy customs (I know, I lived in Boulder, CO, during the early 70s). Thanks for the heads up before I hike the AT, probably SOBO in August from Maine. You have marvelous video and research skills, you should take it to the next level unless you are already there !
"larger and accepted" is irrelevant to the definition of a cult. Every religion that has a community component is by definition a culture -- a cult. And large and accepted religions are extremely dangerous with a history of atrocity. So I disagree with your opening. But I still am grateful for any critical look at any such group, large or small, known or unknown.
Great job with the telling of this cult. WOW, this is just horrible. Thank you for sharing and for all your hard work with this video and your channel. You're doing a wonderful job. Keep up with the good work. KEEP ADVENTURING GOD BLESS YOU 🤗 HUGS 🤗
I practically live next to the Appalachian trail and visit harpers ferry often. The 12 tribes have a bad name here locally. To be honest, locals are not always happy to see regular hikers as well. There have been incidents with trail hikers and locals all throughout the Appalachian trail. We try to be as welcoming as possible, but are always skeptical and leary regardless. Unfortunately, some bad apple hikers have put a bad taste in the mouths of locals. While the vast majority are great people, it only takes a few bad apples to make people wary. I personally help hikers as much as I can. I even let some hikers crash at my apartment because they had come in to town and got stuck in a snow storm. Overall, despite being cautious, the locals where I live still give the benefit of the doubt and welcome hikers to our towns
Why do some religious groups believe that Ham, one of Noah's sons, is the forefather of the black race? While many religions believe that Ham was the forefather of a certain group of nonbelievers, or wanders, and yes, even slaves from a scriptural point of view, this is the first time I've every heard it from a racist angle. I am an older grandmother and have been a bible based Christian for a very, very long time. I have been a practising member of several well known, popular religions, and have studied Religion in college. I've also made it a point to attend a huge variety of churches and different religious services. I have never heard this racial aspect, though I am aware that his descedants are not thought of as having been traditionally western, in a modern geographical sense. It would tend to place their origins from the African continent, but that isn't meant racially, because Jesus was from a similar area. Also, I do not recall these people being limited to the Afrian continent, and generally it has included the Middle East, even areas were Oriental people reside. If I am wrong and someone can pinpoint scripture to back it up, I'd love to know. I have shared bible study with as many as possible in order to continue leaning, and I have made mistakes here or there, so I remain an open minded person. However, I will never argue another person's spiritual beliefs, nor engage in personal spiritual debates. I believe in education, bible study, prayer, sharing, and fellowship.... not in arguing. Thank you to any who respond back though! : )
Great comment! Thanks for the positivity and thoughtful intent to hear other point of views. I’m also interested in this!! I have heard the curse of Ham before while learning about the civil war in my schooling. I’m interested in others learnings of it
During my 08 thru-hike, I stayed at their hostel in Rutland for a bit while I nursed my ankle and slackpacked. At the time, I didn't know, BUT .......There were two young girls entwined in the cult, both "promised" to be married to male members of the tribe. One was absolutely fine with it while another was doing her best to get out of the place, get out of the forced marriage and be "transferred" to their tribe in Chattanooga. CRAZY CRAY MANGO Croix pour moi.
There are no forced marriages in the Twelve Tribes, but they will often not allow a person to marry who they want and ask you to give them alternatives. It's each person's choice who they marry, but not every potential spouse is acceptable to them.
glad you survived the meal. One cannot know what they are serving. I mean, if they serve you tea, and it f*cks you up on the way home, what are they serving for 'food'?
All I'm going to say is I live along the Appalachian Trail and if or when I hike it or any other trail, I'd like to be left alone. I don't want to be approached or talk to anyone while I'm minding my business hiking.
I've never heard of this cult and I've backpacked backpacked up and down sections of the Pacific Crest trail and all over the rocky mountains. I wonder if they're in Walter Martin's book "Kingdom of the cults"? They sound very controlling and thanks for making people aware.
I thought these cats are Appalachian, not west of the Mississippi really. I grew up around Wonder Valley/Joshua Tree/Yucca Valley in SoCal, they had some weird ass UFO cults down there that lived in communal groups in Buckminster Fuller type dome structures.
I'm 72 years old. I've been around orthodox christianity since birth. I was compelled by my parents to attend catholic school. In my late teens,early 20's I was attempting to become a Protestant, the picture of my unhealthy condition, my bad behavior surfaced because I wasn't seeking a relationship with Christ, but a community to enter and live at peace with. In 1974, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, and a certain liberation occured in me. I had amazing contact with God, visually, and inwardly. I saw some visions, and was given a look into my future with God. The reality of Christ became ingrained in my heart. But I wasn't out of school at that time. 25 more years would pass where when I did what I felt God was telling me to do? I received spiritul growth, and a degree of maturity. When I entered my 60's I saw what worked, and what failed in the Orthodox community. I learned that it was simple to agree with God on the treatment of others, especically people who were in extreme cults. God has always provided for me. Not a community. I in turn provided for those that had issues with faith. I discovered that "if you are God's?" He provides. One just needs to tune in to what he is offering. These days I play guitar for an African American American Baptist Church. I tithe because I know God is faithful to his word. I support the ministry in any way I can, financially, musically, and as much as is possible, joyfully. I look back on a difficult life, made that way, becuse I wouldn't listen for the next move God was handing me. I discovered that God found me, and not vice versa. Once you belong to God? Nothing else is difficult. One doesn't need to be overly mystical. Although that is necessary to overcome something negative in your spirit. Hatred flees, wisdom comes, and real maturity in how to live is present. Soon I'll leave this body and my time will be over. But God never gave up on me, and I will have had a beautiful end to this existence, All I had to do was listen? Then Do it.. No special withdrawl from society, No doctrinal borders. Just patience, and awareness. If one reads the new testament closely? One can see that possibly a verse or two were what the apostles expounded upon and not the entire spectrum of successes, or failures held within. Christ showed that religion was a business. An earthly security. people do need to read the bible, but not memorize it and use it as a weapon on the unsuspecting. One may not "know" God for a long time. But if he has made you his? You'll hear his voice. Love him with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself.
I stayed at the yellow deli and they were always trying to get use to visit their community and was having their new members talk to us about how much their lives have improved since joining them. Just watch out if you stay with them.
The only difference between a 'religion' and a 'cult' is the number of people. They don't necessarily have beliefs that are more crazy than any other religion.
If you're engaging in discussions with Bible-based denomination which you believe are cults, I'd like to offer an approach to speaking with them, a rubric if you will.... First, ask them if the Bible alone has everything in it to help a person understand the faith, or not. If they answer yes, you respond by saying that according to your own admission, I won't need further assistance in understanding it from you. If they say "No, you need the help of me/our group to interpret and understand it", then ask who founded the group, and why this person is qualified to interpret the Bible more than other people. Then ask them if they believe that the first generations of Christians had the "right understanding" or not. If they say "no", this is very strange. But if they say yes, ask them about the writings and teachings of three people in particular: Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna and Clement of Rome. Those three are known as the "Apostolic Fathers" in that they were taught Christianity by the Apostles directly. Clearly, no other extra-Biblical source has that level of credibility. If you bone up on the Apostolic Fathers, you are well fortified to discuss Christianity with any group trying to pressure your understanding, and indeed you can give THEM something to think about. If you want to take it a step further, ask them if Christ was correct or incorrect when He said "the gates of hell shall not prevail" against the Church He established. They can answer either that Christ lied (?!) or that His Church endured in an unbroken Tradition. Then ask why they didn't seek out that Tradition instead of making up their own interpretation. Then, if you want to take it a step further, ask them if they ever heard of the concept of "Spiritual self-deception", which Tradition and community is meant to guard against. Christianity has a long history of rationality, it isn't the subjective ignorant mumbo-jumbo its often portrayed as. But Christianity also has a long history of cults popping up with have no rational or spiritual basis. We're therefore quite used to responding to these.
When I lived in Colorado I was right down the street from 1 of their businesses. I frequently got smoothies from them. The leader & I have the same name. He was nice & seemed pretty interesting. However I later sat down with him. He had a very shallow understanding of the Bible. Wich surprised me. Once I realized he didn't know much about scripture I steered the conversation twords thought experiments & analogies. Right away he realized that I was a bit more educated. He wouldn't go any further with the conversation. I could tell he was extremely suspicious of me & veiled hostility was brewing. So I said good day. He was always nice to me after that but would avoid conversation. Later a friend of mine named Collin joined them. He left town & went to the California group got anointed ect. When he came back we talked he was pretty open but obviously was trying to steer me away from my curiosity. Later he quit & came back to secular culture. He bad mouthed them big time. I said when I was trying to talk to you. You where evasive & seemed closed off. He said yes I had been warned about you. That you where not to be trusted because others thought I would find out what was going on & expose or confront them. I don't know because I didn't join them. But from knowing people & hearing about the dark side. I would say they have a sever sketchy side
I’ve been watching a lot of thru hiking content lately, but until stumbling across your channel and video I’d never heard of them. Though I found the video very informative, the way the information was presented, as a voice over against a slideshow of pretty landscape pictures and videos that with a few exceptions had little to do with the subject, lessened it’s impact considerably.
Their is a branch in pulaski TN and the nursing school does clinicals on their compound they called the farm.they also have a resturant called the yellow deli there it a really popular restaurant.
So glad I found your channel. Watched #2 first but had to come back and see this. And Yes. So good and great. Liked and Subscribed. A very interesting topic and you handled so very well. A fine objective study. Just great. Spanking? I say nope.
I forgot I had heard of this group until finding your video. I also had no idea they were connected through the hiking community. I will say that the “face value” outward message they seem to promote is pretty straight forward Christian fundamental. While many large denominations diverge from some of their beliefs many large denominations also stray from simple biblical teachings. That said, a LOT of simple teachings are twisted by many groups. This brings me to the part about subservient women. You were looking for thought on this so here it is. Many, many, churches, denominations, and cults cherry pick their teachings on “womens rolls” using 1 Peter where it talks about wives being submissive to their husbands and what not. Anyone teaching that women are not equal to men are flat out wrong. This is not true. In fact women held some of the most important rolls and were highly trusted by even Jesus. What is meant by all this subservient talk is that when people truly love each other they put their own wants and needs secondary to supporting the needs of the ones they love. And in this way they are serving them. And this goes both ways for men and women. And the Bible even states that. So teaching otherwise is seriously misconstruing the message. If you have a genuinely loving relationship. And set your needs aside for your partner to support them. And this is a two way street and they do for you. Neither of you will ever go without. This is the way lol. Anyone using biblical teachings to place women beneath men is, for lack of a less crass expression, seriously fucked up.
It sounds like a lot of groups like this - they internalize some weird European conservative interpretations of the Bible, claiming it was the "original version."
I mean you really just described all current religions... Not just exclusive to 'twelve tribes'. They all seek new members, preach about their faith, are manipulative and can be pushy or do questionable actions behind closed doors. Thanks for your incite and research.
I am a parent. And the last thing I want to do is insulate my children from the real world. Seems like that would be setting them up for confusion and failure as adults. I plan on showing them as many cultures and places as I can afford. I plan on teaching them to be critical thinkers. So they can examine reality and be well rounded successful adults, ready to take on anything that comes their way.
Please Green Giant: if you do want to take your kids around the world and expose them to lots of different ways of thinking get clear about what YOU believe. Your kids will need to know how you came to those conclusions far more than what those conclusions are. Because each generation must come to their own. My generation did not do this well at all. Blessings on your way!
I commend these people for breaking away from clown world. 🤡🌎 Reminds me of my favorite quote: “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a truly sick society”- Jiddu Krishnamurti
Yea they’re a cult basically…..so…. What’s to admire. Maybe do a bit more research on a group before praising and saying how brilliant they are. Christ what’s everyone got against researching these days? Wtf
Where did Krishnamurti say that? 'Freedom from the Known"? I had a professor who studied under Krishnamurti for a decade The brilliance of Krishnamurti is when he became of age and it was time to tell his "followers" his teaching he said "follow no leaders" because this will create a distortion pattern. And the amazing paradox in this is the question, who were his real "followers"? Those who left? Or those "followers" who stayed with him to learn his teachings? In the words of a random Redditor, "it could very well be 'Freedom from the Known', that book has more punchlines than a rap album"
Personally I saw multiple red flags before you even got to the problematic part. Encouraging leaving currents relationships behind (cutting one off from family and friends) changing your name (erasing your identity to create a new one) giving them all your money and possessions (financial control). Cults are dangerous even if they are technically not breaking the law. And of course they are going to act nice and happy when outsiders are around. That's how they operate.
That's why,in my eyes anyway,the lines between religions and cults are blurry at best.I'm wary of either one.I'd rather stand(or fall on my ass) on my own.
@@dfinlen Some religions do,but just more subtly.They make the susceptible feel morally superior to anyone who thinks differently.That would explain missionaries and the plain old fashioned smug and self righteous.Pit religions against each other and it can resemble and arms race.
@@dfinlen Jesus said "anyone who comes to me must hate their father and mother" and "if you want to be perfect, sell your possessions and give to the poor, you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me." This was a call to follow a wandering homeless preacher into a life of asceticism with no jobs or care for how they might survive. The casual masses of Christians, Buddhists, etc., aren't really disciples, aren't following their gurus' teachings. They adopt a popular, watered down culture based on them. If Christians followed what Jesus said, they'd live as their monks do, same for the rest. This is a life of asceticism where you give all your possessions, take a new name, pledge obedience, and all the rest of those culty things our cult-ure sees as an affront to life as it is "meant to be" ... ie, the exact same exploitation with members exactly as blind to it. A spiritual life is vulnerable to abuse as such, but that vulnerability is a result of turning away from materiality, which is the foundation of spirituality, which is the foundation of religion.
Regardless of their beliefs the practice of locating along the hikes where they can prey on young people alone and possibly vulnerable due to the physical challenges of thru hiking is predatory.
Some of you don't realize there are people who come out to these trails with no direction or family they can trust or lack of family at all. Some people that never had anything decent in there life. Then when they get to a place like that they surrender themselves to that because it is better for them than anything they have ever experienced. I bet there are quite a few that lay down at night and are grateful they are where they are in comparison to what they came from. Glad you all have cushy lives with structure but not all do. You call it predatory some call it saving.
Eh I wouldn’t call it one. The Amish don’t ride bikes either. It’s pretty obvious why they don’t want them talking to outsiders children when you see how kids act and are raised these days.
@@Markustempest the kids that they will need to be able to socialize with when they get older? In my experience the more you shelter someone the more they want out... Example: kids that live with extremely strict parents often go nuts when they are finally on thier own.
All cults do two things: 1. Remove peoples assets so they are not independent financially 2. Isolate people from outside media and people in general .... Twelve Tribes qualifies on both counts... AVOID.
I think that's pretty specific, I would include Evangelicals, mainly Dominionists as a cult, specifically a doomsday cult. And also fundamentalist Islam/JW/Mormons
Early Christianity demanded a separation from family as well. You were to follow the teachings of JesusChrist and nothing else. All religions are technically a cult. Every definition of cult tries to make it sound like the big organized religions aren’t cults, but they are. Size and age and popularity of said religion doesn’t mean anything. A cult is a cult is a cult.
I’m shocked. This is the first I’m hearing of this group. What a bizarre story. These cults always seem to start out with good intentions. Then they seem to morph into absolute control, abusive, perverted, etc, etc. These children are in danger in my opinion. I would never support this cult in any way. Thank you for this video, well done.
lmfaoo. they are no different than our current government education (indoctrination) society in North America..we have a prison system based on lies .. medical mis information, forced vaccines..tax laws corruption, molestation and in canada is even worse child rapists are protected and given the best care , food and security .. I could go on ..
My cousin is a part of this tribe. Heartbreaking. He couldn’t be with his sister when she passed away from cancer and although she’s not a part of the tribe, she did handle her cancer the way the tribe would… all natural treatment, (forced by my psycho aunt ) so I’m not sure how he could even shun her in that time. But his commune voted and he wasn’t allowed to see her. Why not come and pray over her? I dunno. It’s just a crazy thing to see your own family in such a cult… and now he’s a leader himself. 😔
Thats horrible! I'm so sorry. I agree other than I would agree I guess with them on the natural treatments. I knew someone with cancer who refused the hospital treatments and they lived. But it should always be a choice and who did they think they were to tell someone they couldn't see a dying relative! That's definitely a cult!!! And they actually call themselves followers of God
Twelve Tribes is also working to engage with the live aboard and long term sailing community. They operate a 100+ foot sailing ship called Peacemaker that moves from place to place along the east coast of the US. There are Yellow Deli restaurants in several towns along the Intercoastal Waterway.
THAT bit of info is very very spooky. I remember the nightmare of Antelope, Oregon. One of the members became an employee of CA. State Disability in Sacramento, years later, still preaching to word.
Fun fact: as a child, my parents nearly dragged me and my little sister into this cult. I'm eternally grateful that two of my aunts had done the research on it. Legitimately saved our lives. I'm sat here with my iced coffee and ready for this deep dive. I want to see what bullets I managed to dodge.
Pre-internet and I would understand how some might "accidentally" get wrapped up with them. Glad it didn't happen for you. I'm just baffled how current-day through hikers are so naive and give them any legitimacy by accepting anything from them. Their decades of child abuse, racism and misogyny are well documented at this point. Just look at all the videos of former members who openly discuss their theology on UA-cam alone. Who doesn't research the groups that are "too good to be true" in the 21st Century?! It's absolutely mind-boggling to me.
Great research and reporting.. the 12 tribes have been around and recruited from the Grateful Dead community for many years .. it makes sense that they would target the hiking community
From what I have seen they use some pretty cool looking vintage buses to lure in people on Dead Lot and start a conversation. But it would seem that they mostly prey upon the lost young wooks that came to the show alone and with few resources. Likely someone just looking for a place to sleep or a ride to the next show. Next thing they know they're cut off from their family and working like a slave on a commune or some sandwich shop. Sadly, that might actually be a better option for some people than living on the street.
@@Brandon-em4qh Damn, extremely valid perspective I hadn't considered before. The victims of these people COULD be homeless. When you consider how tragic the conditions of homelessness are, does being susceptible to and joining a cult really seem that bad? I mean, I might disagree with their methodology, but would it be better if they were sleeping under a bridge high on heroine? Maybe finding a place in a cult is for the best for SOME people.
@@Brandon-em4qh yep .. agree.. i've been on that bus .. and for sure, their trip is a lot better than what some folks find themselves in on the street .. shakedown and others
Yup. As a traveling Dead Head back in the day I ran into these guys a couple of times at the Ithaca show. They seamed very friendly and inviting at the time. Glad I didnt succumb to their cult.
I got picked out by them in '90 Landover Maryland ....after hitchhiking to the shows alone from utah...got raped along the way.. i was a wreck when they picked me out on the lot...
I was Homeschooled in upstate NY and at 9th grade I was given a choice to go to public school...there was one boy who started coming to school who was from a Twelve Tribes movement that had tried to start a branch or moved into the area. How he came to be placed in public school I'm not sure but I don't think it was voluntarily. He was very quiet and meek and a super sweet boy...hard to get to know but really respectful. Even to me at 16 which he would have been maybe 14? He had a lot of signs of a severely abused child. He told me that everyone's children belong to the entire tribe. The kids all lived together in a separate home sorta like an orphanage but then all the community was involved in the running of it; that would seem to contradict the idea kids weren't allowed to interact at all but perhaps different branches operate a little differently 🤔 He said he wasn't allowed to know who his birth parents even were. Some kids did know because they were told secretly but they wouldn't be allowed any kind of special bond or relationship. I'm not sure exactly what abuse was specifically but when the Tribe left the area; they left because local schools were very involved legally in the kids situations and because of that a few kids were removed and put into child protective custody...he stayed and entered foster care and was adopted.
I don't think that was a Twelve Tribes group your friend was in. They never have their kids in public school, they say it contaminates the kids. Krishna communes used to have children's houses, maybe it was that. All adults can do any amount of discipline on your child in the tribes, but they are your kids, and if you aren't "receiving" enough to admonish them properly, you can be punished; meaning, you don't get any days off, you have to work night time meal prep for the deli, or even get sent to another location to work away from you kids. The kids can NOT interact with each other. Yoneg was pretty adamant about that. If kids interact without supervision they can contaminate each other, so every time you see little kids hanging out with each other and they aren't family members, the adults will separate them. They can work together, and interact a little bit, but not much. You see them make shallow conversation while they work together, but they always look at the adults around them to make sure no one is mad, and they keep it about things they do, or are learning about mechanics, or jobs. The kids do have a special bond with their parents, and are required to show respect, but...this is kind of cool...everyone is encouraged to tell on everyone, especially the kids telling on the parents. So sometimes you see the parents breaking a plate, or otherwise screwing up, and they stare around to see if the kids see. Sure enough, little negotiations happen over discipline.
@@CS-uc2oh They have a lot more abuse than that, but yes, the kids minds are so fecked up over their parents. And they never get to interact with other kids in the community even. Of course they find ways to hang out and talk together, but it has to be sneaky, and it's always "wrong", so some that have left still have a child's social skills as adults.
This is a very informative video production! I was a teacher and child care provider in Free Methodist church for 3 years. I worked, sometimes up to seven days per week, depending on what was happening that week. I taught ages 3 years old through 5th grade. I was the lead instructor for groups of up to 70 children at a time. I taught over a thousand different children per month. My expertise, was in working with especially traumatized or disturbed children. Not one single time, in that entire three years, did I ever raise my hand or my voice to a child. Never, in my entire life, has there ever been a justification for striking a child. To do so, would only be blatant admission, that you are not mentally or emotionally mature enough to outsmart a child. Every single dilemma encountered with a child, can be dealt with through love, patience, and teaching by example. I never encountered a child who posed a threat, but I suppose such a circumstance might warrant use of reasonable force to prevent a child from causing harm to their self or others.
I had a close friend who had to physically escape a cult. The sharing of everything is a major red flag. She lost all of her savings, which she didn't get to spend, but cult leaders used at will.
There is a certain subset of hikers on trails like the AT who are looking for something or looking to get away from something, making them possible recruits for a group offering "answers". In my earlier days, I hiked to separate myself from society, reconnect with nature and to think without the normal distractions and I can easily imagine a pastural group being attractive to that me.
I guess it just depends on who you run into from these groups. The folks I ran into were too invasive and couldn’t take hint. Maybe some are less creepy, but no one would feel comfortable arounds the guys I met.
I stayed at a 12 tribes Virginia location in 2007. After a few days, and an aggressive 12 tribes member, flashing a flashlight in the middle of the night, in my eyes, I left. The mask extreme control measures, under a "mantle" of love. The 12 tribes is evil. Not joking.
Anyone that tells you they know what happens to you when you die is a liar. Anyone that claims to have any understanding of god (anything that created the entire universe) is an arrogant, dangerous liar who has to control other people. Our squishy electromagnetic difference engine can't conceptualize hardly anything but you think you've got a lock on the creator of the universe. Yeah, okay bud..
And anybody that thinks they KNOW it is impossible for The LIVING Holy Bible to have been divinely written/inspired by The One True God that created EVERYTHING, is obviously trapped in a mere mortal mind and because he cannot fathom there is much more to this world than what he can see and learn from public schools is simply confined and unable to think outside of his egotistical little box, and such a person is the photo child for the typical human that suffers from Dunning Kreuger Syndrome. For those mere mortals that have been shown MORE by seeking the truth, and accepting the fact that, that LIVING Bible could not have POSSIBLY been written by humans alone, because the prophecies alone make it nothing short of supernatural, and this world could not have POSSIBLY evolved from rock and rain, and most importantly, the commonly accepted narrative these days that MAN CAN BECOME A GOD is a deception that only a proud fool could think possible, as a man couldn't possibly create a world complete with everything life needs to live... Well, the humans that realize we are all part of someone MUCH MUCH bigger are only made wiser by CHOOSING to open the door and letting in The Creator of all things, who then communicates with us in many ways and shares things with us that the proud human couldn't possibly understand, because His ego has him CONVINCED if he can't see it, it cant possibly be real. (He literally does not have eyes they can TRULY see, or ears that can TRULY hear) Those who have a personal relationship with The King of All Kings know just what a fool those that don't, ARE. These are TRULY the dangerous people as they go around trying to convince the people they meet that The One True and Real God that they've NEVER sought after, and never even met is not real! Thus causing his believers to wander aimlessly through life searching for a meaning that has no value because the true meaning has been discarded for a fairy tale. And all the while, the soul loses its true destination...all because they listened to and believed a fool who thought he had the answers, but literally knew NOTHING. Not even the basic reason WHY he was given life. If only you knew...What a life, what a world, what a King, WHAT A FATHER!!!
I agree even though I do love watching NDE videos. I take any belief without solid proof that I can touch and see with my own eyes with a grain of salt. That would be every single religion. Not to say such people with experiences are lying - but I recognize it also as their interpretation of what they experienced.
@@MsThebeMoon And that is actually very wise of you.😉 Because we really can't be sure who they actually met in that afterwordly life they experienced. It definitly could have been deception from OTHER spiritual entities... who knows. But remember this ONE thing. There is only ONE God that created EVERYTHING. Even He created those other gods that people choose to worship. And only that One God claims to have created ALL THINGS. Also, only that One God sent someone to this EARTH to prove the supernatural powers He has. This is because those other gods that claim to be God can't possibly do those miracles. (Healing the lame, the blind, and even being raised from the dead.) By claiming they could would prove to those that worship them they were nothing more than a wannabe, who simply wanted to be worshipped. The One True God has proved Himself over and over. Check this out for some proof these blessings were real... ua-cam.com/video/vQKxoBpV2NE/v-deo.html
@@time2see192 No. I am NOT a deist and there is not enough historical proof of a Jesus. Had to edit. Keeping it simple. Jesus Christ is NOT my savior. I do not believe in ONE God. I do not believe in YOUR GOD. I do NOT believe in your heaven or hell. My beliefs are far beyond anything you could possibly comprehend because you are indoctrinated. You are not free to question. Not within yourself. You are confined by the fear that your religion tells you to be fearful of - eternal hell. Quoting Ron Reagan Jr. I'm "not afraid of burning in hell."
I think spanking a child for squirming during a diaper change or hitting children is evil. Don’t have to do much more research than this. I hope the state will visit monthly to give those who wish to leave an out. Never heard of them and it is important that people do.
A German 12 Tribes group was investigated using hidden cameras. The German authorities found sticks used to beat children. I saw a teeny bit of a beating given to a young child. It was beyond upsetting. Afterwards the group moved to Slavakia where they were able to continue their practices. It is very easy to get away with child abuse, even severe, in the US, sad to say.
The last time I spanked my son, he was about four years old. I didn't find it effective and I could see in his face his defiance and confusion. I rarely to never had ever spanked him before and just never did again. I was far from being a perfect parent, but that is one thing I'm so glad that I took his cue and never raised my hand again to my son. He's 40 now and I have no regrets of not spanking him as a young child.
Good video. In the 1960s(when I was a teen) there were a lot of groups "communes". Many made the founders wealthy. There is a chapter in Peter Jenkins' book A walk Across America where he spends time in one of those communes in the Tennessee area. Good Luck, Rick
A very informative video. I enjoyed a double zero with them when I thru hiked in 2021. They were good hosts, but at the time I thought there might be a lot more going on behind the scenes - things they don't share openly with the public. My biggest concern was how the children were treated. They seemed to be happy enough but getting beaten with a stick 20 times a day is way beyond abusive.
@@davidgreenwood6029 taking a zero means to not home any miles. Doing a double zero means they took two days off and didn't accomplish any miles towards getting further along the trail.
Thank you for the nice video essay. very well put together. love the format. .. I have had a few run ins with them in the past. but not from the hiking community. i have seen them at RV and van life gatherings. they own a very very rare bus/rv thing. like only a handful exist in the world. they will take it to these gatherings to entice people to come in and have some tea. then when i joined the hiking community i find them at trail days offering free food and tea. .... hmm.idk. just screams jim jones to me.
Oh my, they gave me the tea at one of their restaurants in San Diego. I and the person I was with felt “drunk” or “stoned” for hours after we drove home. They said it was Yerba Matte. But the experience was NOT something I ever felt with JUST tea. Huh.
@@ladypaw Reno 911? They had a tea episode lol? Man, I remember thinking the yellow deli was great, and the people seemed friendly enough, but I am glad we got out of the range of the cult and drove home before the tea hit. Whatever it was it made us weird for a few hours at least.
1st Coffee. 2nd, I ate at their restaurant in NC once. Couldn't put my finger on what was giving me the creeps. Now I know. Cool vid, keep up the good works. Stay blessed.
I knew these folks over 40 years ago in Chattanooga. LOTS of accusations and problems way back and it looks like not much has changed. Thanks for this research.
This has a particular poignant resonance with me and my experience with the twelve tribes. They acquired a lot of property and opened up a yellow deli near where I grew up in the past decade and my family told me about it and how wonderful the people and food there was, so a few times before the pandemic when I was there visiting I went there with them. The very first time my girlfriend at the time and I were pretty much being actively recruited by staff there and immediately my “this is a cult” alarms started going off full force. I expressed my concerns to my family and my girlfriend and they thought I was overreacting and that the twelve tribes were doing this wonderful work. I did not really press the issue as I had seen enough from there literature that they gave out and from my personal interactions with them to make up my own mind, but this video helped me realize just why my initial feeling was that something way darker was lurking under the facade of their public business persona. Thank you for sharing this information in an objective and fact based manner.
A cult is a cult. All are dangerous. Stay away, you never know when you might be vulnerable, especially when you are away from your normal support group/family/friends.
Christianity is also a cult. So is judeaism. That definition of cult is not the mainstream definition. The Colt is actually defined as any group of people of like mind who come together to take action on a cause which usually includes the spreading of a core belief structure shared by members of The cult. (Or something like that.)
@@kenkneram4819 Yeah, I don't find the definition of a cult being "small" to be useful. The biggest cult I'm aware of is the Catholic Church. The organizational structure is all top down from what I can tell, same as any cult.
Women do all of the cooking, cleaning and child care. Single women are constantly required to watch other people's children on top of their normal jobs and they are usually the ones who do most of the dishwashing after meals. Single women are also often the ones assigned to do the early morning animal chores and are the ones who have to get up at 5am to cook breakfast. When they go on tour on the Peacemaker bus, the women do all of the cooking for the men on the bus, and they also do all of their laundry. When I was there, the only leisure time I got on Saturday was spent sleeping as I never slept enough during the week. We all worked 15 hrs a day.
Working 15+ hours a day is not unusual in third world countries or remote areas of the USA. That much work might sound excessive to most, but rewarding to others. The key here is not to try to judge unless you have walked in their footsteps. I have not spent one minute in this cult, but have to admin that some of my favorite days on the AT were spent hiking 15-16 hours a day, which to many Thru-hikers can be considered to be "work". I don't advocate what I just heard about child discipline from ANY adult! That's a bit crazy IMO!
@LightWalker I lived in the TT for 3 years. It is definietly a high control group. Members are not given a choice with regard to the amount or type of work they are given, and single women do not have any "leisure time" apart from a handful of hours on Saturday afternoon. I was only getting 4-5 hrs of sleep a night, and it negatively affected my mental and emotional state which is why I ultimately left.
I stayed in the yellow deli on my hike last year. I had a great experience, i also helped them clean after dinner and make breakfast. Both the man and the women worked as far as i could see. I think as someone who grow up as a religious jew i think Americans, mainly white millennial “woke” kids are very disconnected with religion and how other cultures/ people live. For example both in Judaism and Islam women must dress in a certain way etc.. Just because these are big religions and not consisted of “White Americans” they are getting a waiver for negative effects they might have or cause to other people. This is just my 2 cents, The only difference between a religion and a cult is the size of it. as you have mentioned in your video.
@@groundflax If I was a man I would have probably stayed in the TT. The married couples retire to their room after meals. If a single brother is particularly zealous, he might stay to help with the dishes on occasion, but it is not expected and only the women are assigned to cooking duties, which includes dishwashing. I spent about 5-7 hours a day washing dishes when I was there. We also make all of the lunches for the men to take with them on their jobs.
Ehud, cults also do 'mind bending' to get control of the members. They would start that young, like the 6 months mentioned, to insure members stay. That's just a couple of more differences between religions and cults.
At 7:25, I honestly don't see any difference between this belief and that of say, Buddhism, Islam, et al. beliefs which also have many of the same stances regarding lifestyles, up to and including grooming dictates, such as makeup, hair length, and facial hair (~11:00 or so). The same with "new names." Some major religions (see Buddhism again) also require giving up personal wealth and possessions. While some may consider these "extreme" views, I don't think its fair to use that as a discriminator. Also, while I don't necessarily agree with these people, I think its biased to call them "a little off." According to whom? What if we're the ones who are "a little off?" Again, I know you just mean "non standard" WRT the general culture at large, but your terminology matters. As another example, at 12:14 you say "it seems..." That's a perception comment. How do you know it conforms to reality? What examples do you have of them being "ultra controlling" (12:23), to highlight my point? "It CAN turn dangerous"(12:25)? So....has it "turned dangerous"? You say it your job to "put the facts out there responsibly," and I respect that, yet you then follow that with the statement "Do not take my opinion for fact." OK, but which is which? At 4:38 you define them as a "cult," a term with largely negative connotations in the modern age, yet you rely only on select eyewitness accounts in making this determination. Have you balanced these accounts with people who left the group yet who had a positive experience. At 18:22 you tell a story of a comment one of the women in the group made to you friend "Rascal" about becoming 'infertile' if she helped some of the men in the group lift a couch. On what basis do you assume that is a teaching of the group? It could just be someone making an odd joke, or employing some personal superstition, not a belief of the group. Yet you just assume it came from the group? Like at 12:12 you state "Hence, for some prejudice groups with racist theology, this justifies slavery, which in my opinion is completely bonkers." And which groups are those? At 12:43 "there isn't a lot of information on the internet that are super reliable..." Then why not look for better sources? "But, in my opinion, when the question 'Are we racist?' has to be posed on the 12 Tribes official website, then there is something deeper going on there." Says who? Respectfully, that's not a logical conclusion. Perhaps they felt the need to answer that question because they've been falsely accused of racism; did you ever consider that, or maybe even investigate whether some of the more outlandish claims against this group were even legitimate? Yet again (at 22:18) "If that is a teaching in the 12 tribes, I really hope its not." "IF??" Then you shouldn't insinuate that it is or even might be, if you don't know, and If you're going to post an allegation that incendiary, shouldn't you be absolutely sure of it first? Also, you never actually provided one single example of any "racist" behavior in the group, just broad generalizations about their possible beliefs concerning race. I wonder too, if this was a "non-religious" group (say a Humanistic nature commune group, for example) would you feel the same way? And if this was a majority Black or Hispanic group, would you just assume racism existed in it based on the same "evidence" you provide here? Do you see my point? Finally, what exactly about this group is "Dangerous" or "Extreme"? Nothing you described in your video fits either of these adjectives. Stephen Covey said it best in "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," with 'Seek first to understand, then to be understood.' I've enjoyed your vids so far; this very opinionated, slanted, and speculative one isn't one of them.
My uncle was a member of the TT for 15 years. Just recently broke out. I remember visiting when I was younger. Very nice to me, but my uncle has told me stories that weren’t so great
@@brerrabbit4265 They're not my stories to tell. But they involve a lot of abuse, forced labor, thought control, love bombing, etc. Not much different than other stories that people have told about escaping cults.
@@dylandolbymusic7172 I got all of that from my step father and worse, and he's an atheist. A lot of these comments seem to just reflect a general disdain for religion.
well if they are racist they not following scripts cause the 12 tribes were all different races there are many people of color from 12 tribes of Israel
Why can't the states where this trail is put up warning signs at the trails entrance informing the public about cult encounters .The last thing I want when out in nature is to run in these " Reverend Jim Jones " types and inadvertently drink their Kool-aid. I mean trail officials warn about bears and mountain lions but not about the cults . That doesn't sound right to me .
There's far worse things in the wild than cults and bears. check out missing 411 project. The AT has several cluster zones of strange missing people cases. Basically you go into the wild or out your front door practice situational awareness. Realize you're responsible for your own safely. Also gun and personal locator beacon when going into the wild.
@@melanieortiz712 I think the best advice is never hike alone even if the hiker considers him or herself fiercely independent ,strong capable and individualistic.
That would be a little wierd, would it not? Life is full of people of all sorts. We are all grown-ups on the trail, capable of being appropriately wary of such folks. One thing I'm reading over and over in these comments is how, even though the TT community was nice, something felt off, creepy, or just not right. I think that wise people will know when they are being sucked into a scam, while those who are vulnerable to such will eventually fall prey to someone, somewhere. Listen to your gut!
For people interested in the "mind control" or "brainwashing" aspect. Please look at the BITE model to evaluate high control groups. Behavior Control (including when you have sex and with who, what you eat, how you dress, do your hair, etc), information control (what information are you allowed to access), thought control ("that thought isn't in line with what the leaders teach or wants--- stop!" Or just manipulation), emotional control (that emotion isn't acceptable, including even righteous anger, sadness, depression, etc).
The BITE model is VERY flawed and almost any religion can be twisted into the model. I've given examples of this before by applying Islam, Judaism, and Catholicism.
I went to UTC for a bit in Chattanooga and visited the Yellow Deli a Couple of times, before I knew it was owned by a cult. It was just a 2 minute walk from my dorm . The food was good and the place was so hobbit like. But the workers were always very odd, would barley talk to you . I remember one guy who gave us our food looked like he was in a daze. Haven't been back in a few years but I stumbled upon your video and its very informative !
Glad to get the info before meeting the group. I grew up around the traditional horse and buggy Amish and my grandfather owned a small cattle farm so my views of kids working are vastly different than many. I learned several skills from working that I have in turn utilized in several jobs. I know people that grew up in their parent's garage and some turned into great mechanics while others simply putter in their own work space and save a ton of repair costs. There is nothing wrong with teaching children a skill and work ethic. Corrective punishment is different than abusive punishment. Abuse should be prosecuted. Isolationist interpretations of doctrine often lead to non-biblical traditions. Catholics, the Amish, and several denominations of protestants all form traditions loosely based on, or through broad interpretation of actual scriptures. While these traditions often convolute the daily living, you do have to examine the core relational beliefs concerning Christ to determine if they are harmless fringe, or bastardizing scripture for 'evil' intent.
Wow! what a descriptive and thoughtful comment. The last sentence you wrote is key. "core relational beliefs concerning Christ" I wonder about that a lot when it comes to what I am taught in my own non denom church.
In so far as working with family, I too agree that much can be learned. I personally am a strong proponent of organizations like the Boy Scouts exactly because of this. Kids need to experience agency in their lives somewhere other than their video games. Lord knows they don’t get that in school these days. Giving them the skills and abilities to exercise their independence can be achieved by having them help with things in a safe environments like around the house and even at the business. This was certainly the case for myself. Child labor is something totally different, once families are relying on their “dependents” for financial security, these children deserve to legally have ownership in whatever they are paying for. I know of a few people who have to essentially pay rent and make payments for the car that they drive but don’t own. The fact that these families also use this as a leverage points for manipulating these kids to never leave the households is indicative of potential issues that these types of setups create. It’s abuse, financial abuse. Were I to employ kids there is no question that they would get payed for their time, and have them work if they wanted to.
Our public school system no longer teaches God values (Love) but rather indoctrinates (brain washing and censorship) our future generation. How is this different from a cult? How has this been working out for our society? Destruction of self esteem, self worth and elimination of self reliance has led to expectation that the government should provide everything (new god) Result in lawlessness , homelessness, substance abuse and a disregard to human life. In my humble opinion both are controlling cults which one is working better for society? Or maybe it is time to go back to the basics and find our humanity again by Loving God and neighbor!
Cults, just like gangs and similar groups, simply prey on humans' innate desire for being socially accepted and part of a group. You will find that often members of these groups come from broken homes, etc.
Targeting thru hikers is actually smart on their part if you think about it. Many hikers are out there seeking something spiritually. It makes them easier targets.
Wow. Twelve Tribes sounds like something out of Margaret Atwood's "Handmaid's Tale" with their contrived religiosity and massive imposition of total control downward, total obedience upward.
It was the physical punishment of children and the extreme shaming that caused my friend to extricate her family. She got herself and her husband and six children out. It took her a great deal of strength to get out.
Very nice job pulling this video together and doing the research. I stayed at their place in Rutland last year when I hiked the Long Trail...I kept an open mind going into it given some things I had heard previously. Overall everyone was very nice and even though the restaurant was closed they invited all the hikers to join their private family dinners and breakfast. I did have a sense they are very selective and likely "train" the folks that are public facing. I noticed at least one of the guys was a rather young (early to mid 20's) and was an experienced thru hiker - I felt this was almost a way to gain commonality with potential recruits..just a guess. Women were definitely much more reserved and there were a few times you could tell they were cautious what they said when they spoke. One thing that struck me as odd - a friend asked a very pointed question related to free will. It was quite clear once you joined they could essentially send you. to live/work at any of their locations and the individual basically has no say because they are serving a higher purpose. Personally I think the idea of living in a community could be nice for some folks, but when you have little to no say and no free will that's another story. I'd encourage every thru hiker to go there for the experience but do so with an open mind - don't get stuck there as some folks appeared to do when I was there. Anyway that was my experience and some things I noticed.
Thank you for that detailed description of your experience. I agree in that everyone was really nice. Overall I thought they were an enjoyable group of people. It is a slippery slope when there isn’t a lot of individual say in matters as serious as where you live, do for work, eat.. say.
@@taratreks No problem 👍. Timely video and interesting! Should have added I was skeptical of their tea but wow that gave me a boost of energy 🤣
@@BearTrekAdventures I was also skeptical of the tea but man was it tasty
@@taratreks 🤣🤣.. that was my first concern coming into a Bahai home!! (In Lake Oswego, Oregon..) A dentist later told me "one dose last a lifetime.. " 🤣🤣.. ☆£☆...
It is very good news, community can be hard to find, though.. May your family be a blessing!! :)
They can also decide to send your kids (without you) .
Oh man, I spent a couple nights with them in Warsaw Missouri while hitchhiking. I had bumped into them in Springfield and they told me about their commune, but didn’t mention the religious aspect. So I went and stayed with them for a couple nights and whilst there was incorporated into a recruitment routine that includes helping with chores, particularly the the garden, and all the yerba mate I could stomach. During the conversations they learned I was buying a small farm in Kansas. I was feeling a bit antsy to get out of there (because I really wanted to cigarette) and they asked if they could send info in the mail. I gave them my address and hit the road. A few months later a van load of them just showed up at my house! They really wanted me to join, presumably, because I owned a patch of 40 acres and an old farm house that would, of course, become property of the organization had I joined. As someone who is fond of all the vices, I sent them on their way. I mean, I may be a degenerate, but I’m also a nice guy who appreciated their hospitality, so they left with fresh produce from my gardens and an understanding there was no hope for conversion.
Wtfff
@Laura D.... pretty weird, aye! 😂
I like your style. Please vacate the premises .... but let me give you some veggies while I kick you out the door!
Yo, that's greasy AF. Strange experience man
@@blueridger28 greasy lmaooo
In 2000 I met a young woman who "escaped" from TT. Her parents hounded that poor girl for weeks until she turned 18. The things she told me about her experiences will haunt me for a long time to come. We ended up taking her to a friend's house near Weslaco TX. She stayed there for a year, changed her name legally and we have since lost contact since 2004.
The mental, emotional and physical (sa) abuse on kids in this group is disturbing. They are predatory in nature. I cannot advise people more to stay away from YD's, their trail camps, and contact.
The lack of medical care to members is had a terrible effect on her greater family. She unlike many new members had both 1 set of gparents and her parents within the group. She haf been told her mother's parents were dead. We found them living in Kentucky, they offered to allow her to come there but she decided it would only cause more drama.
What kind of things said , haunt you?
@@jonyoung6405 Any reply with details would be likely removed for content unbecoming to civilized society. SA, DV, forced child labor not to mention mental and emotional abuse using extreme religious ideology as a weapon are just scratching the surface as to what she was subjected to the first 17 years of her life.
I will not go into further details, maybe someday she will feel comfortable enough to share her experiences with the public on her own. All I can say is that what she told me in confidence was more than I was ready to deal with in my 20's. I had no idea what to say or how to help her. Even the gesture of a hug was frightening and foreign to her without abuse immediately following it.
@@Dobviews Wow..
This group has dangerous cult written all over it. The first red flag is trying to separate you from your family. Having said that…. I grew up on a farm and started working in the fields at 5 years old. It wasn’t abuse. My family needed me and I helped them, it was just that simple.❤️🤗🐝
yup!
Of all the things for somebody to take offense to, working with your family from a young age is the exact opposite of abuse, it is a gift... Provided you aren't risking life and limb too seriously doing it.
@@microcolonel Absolutely. Now, I understand there are abusive situations that happen. Some little children are worked much too hard for their ages. I’m not denying that at all. But you can’t lump all farm work by children as abuse. That is simply not true. Most farm families love their children dearly and are only trying to instill a sense of responsibility in them.
@ChaseLife²~215 Your attitude of shaming reasonable skepticism is EXACTLY the cultish red flag herein described.
@ChaseLife²~215 You’re still doing it my dude. Also there are literally ex members speaking out so maybe you’re the one lacking research.
I started watching your videos yesterday by finding them on you tube. I am very particular about you tube content I watch. You have a great voice for video and presence! Keep up the good work and thank you for helping inform me of interesting information that will help me on future Appalachian hikes!
Did the PCT a couple of years ago and Appalachia Trail is next on my list. So thank you for putting out this video. Very informative.
I have run into these people before, at a Grateful Dead concert along the east coast(late 1980s I think). They seamed very hip and friendly at the time. I knew they were part of a commune but didn't catch their name and what they were really about. Anyway. You did a great job with this video. I will know what to look out for when I hike the Appalachia. Thanks
My mother and complicit, compliant farther reminds me a lot of this group’s beliefs and behaviors toward children even though they did not belong to a cult. These beliefs about children do a lot of psychological harm to children and provides a lot of cover for the abusive parents. My mother hid behind the cover of not spanking your child is ruining the country and she let people believe she was doing what other people were doing by not going into the details of how she carried out her spankings.
My mother (and father) was lucky she raised my brother and I in the seventies and eighties because my cousin treated her children the same way in the oughts and had them taken away. My cousin is not allowed to have contact with her children per court order.
Wow, thank you for telling your story.
your just passing on the right to forcibly confine children to the court system .. theres tons of kids in canada in the court system (jails ) called group homes .. they are beaten and forced to take medication, even put in mental hospitals ..most of them are just run aways and confused. now face years of court charges
So many adults come away from abuse convinced that they weren't abused because it was "just" spanking. Then they suffer PTSD and depression among other things.
Childhood abuse/trauma affects brain development.
*trigger warning for spanking with things other than hands..
Then their "normal" spanking stories include extreme pain, belts, belt buckles, paddles, wooden spoons, switches, yard sticks... bruises, being unable to sit, welts, bloody legs...the list goes on and on.
There is almost no way that a switch doesn't cause physical damage. EVEN if it doesn't cause visible injury it's extremely painful.
That is child abuse. Plain and simple. Normalizing it is extremely harmful.
Ex cult-member here (mormon).
For some more detailed, academic info on cults, how they are classified, and the specific warning signs and tips for handling/recover from them, look up Steven Hasson's Bite Model.
The BITE model can apply to any religion.
Wow...never heard of this group , till now...Never knew about these types of groups on the AT,CDT,PCT etc...
Very interesting....a Cult without the URE..
(CULT+URE)
Thanks for expanding the Hikers Situational Awareness...
Be safe on the Trails.
Glad you enjoyed it
Take it with a grain of salt.
Very Brave of you for compiling and sharing. Thank you for exposing.
Thank you for watching!
Great video, I never heard anything about the 12 tribes but it was a very interesting and informative video, Tara you did a great job !
A couple of things that would be interesting to know about TT. What fraction of children born into the group stay as adults? What is their policy regarding contact between members who leave the group and friends and relatives who remain in the group?
I grew up in Ithaca ny and the twelve tribes is active there, they had a cafe called the mate factor that was pretty good but I never knew anything about them and nobody I asked seem to know much either so I’m fascinated to hear more
Great content and informative. I didn’t know this existed along the trails.
I found you somehow after searching "tramily" on the AT TRAIL, as I intend to hike my own hike for weight loss and improvement of BMI, meaning I will not have time or intent to bond and fall back to regular consumption habits.
Then I run into your video. Harrummmpf ! We have Hutterites in Montana, and this all seems familiar, plus, my significant other is a biblical scholar.
I need the AT for a track for my high I get hiking, but I have zero tolerance for young people who got trophies for attendance or believe in the old hippy customs (I know, I lived in Boulder, CO, during the early 70s).
Thanks for the heads up before I hike the AT, probably SOBO in August from Maine.
You have marvelous video and research skills, you should take it to the next level unless you are already there !
Thank you! This is a very encouraging comment. Good luck on your sobo hike
"larger and accepted" is irrelevant to the definition of a cult. Every religion that has a community component is by definition a culture -- a cult. And large and accepted religions are extremely dangerous with a history of atrocity. So I disagree with your opening. But I still am grateful for any critical look at any such group, large or small, known or unknown.
I consider Christianity is a cult
Great job with the telling of this cult. WOW, this is just horrible.
Thank you for sharing and for all your hard work with this video and your channel.
You're doing a wonderful job. Keep up with the good work.
KEEP ADVENTURING
GOD BLESS YOU
🤗 HUGS 🤗
Thanks 😊✌️
I keep coming back to this for reference. Good to get the word out for people to be aware.
I practically live next to the Appalachian trail and visit harpers ferry often. The 12 tribes have a bad name here locally. To be honest, locals are not always happy to see regular hikers as well. There have been incidents with trail hikers and locals all throughout the Appalachian trail. We try to be as welcoming as possible, but are always skeptical and leary regardless. Unfortunately, some bad apple hikers have put a bad taste in the mouths of locals. While the vast majority are great people, it only takes a few bad apples to make people wary. I personally help hikers as much as I can. I even let some hikers crash at my apartment because they had come in to town and got stuck in a snow storm. Overall, despite being cautious, the locals where I live still give the benefit of the doubt and welcome hikers to our towns
Why do some religious groups believe that Ham, one of Noah's sons, is the forefather of the black race? While many religions believe that Ham was the forefather of a certain group of nonbelievers, or wanders, and yes, even slaves from a scriptural point of view, this is the first time I've every heard it from a racist angle. I am an older grandmother and have been a bible based Christian for a very, very long time. I have been a practising member of several well known, popular religions, and have studied Religion in college. I've also made it a point to attend a huge variety of churches and different religious services. I have never heard this racial aspect, though I am aware that his descedants are not thought of as having been traditionally western, in a modern geographical sense. It would tend to place their origins from the African continent, but that isn't meant racially, because Jesus was from a similar area. Also, I do not recall these people being limited to the Afrian continent, and generally it has included the Middle East, even areas were Oriental people reside. If I am wrong and someone can pinpoint scripture to back it up, I'd love to know. I have shared bible study with as many as possible in order to continue leaning, and I have made mistakes here or there, so I remain an open minded person. However, I will never argue another person's spiritual beliefs, nor engage in personal spiritual debates. I believe in education, bible study, prayer, sharing, and fellowship.... not in arguing. Thank you to any who respond back though! : )
Great comment! Thanks for the positivity and thoughtful intent to hear other point of views. I’m also interested in this!! I have heard the curse of Ham before while learning about the civil war in my schooling. I’m interested in others learnings of it
During my 08 thru-hike, I stayed at their hostel in Rutland for a bit while I nursed my ankle and slackpacked. At the time, I didn't know, BUT .......There were two young girls entwined in the cult, both "promised" to be married to male members of the tribe. One was absolutely fine with it while another was doing her best to get out of the place, get out of the forced marriage and be "transferred" to their tribe in Chattanooga. CRAZY CRAY MANGO Croix pour moi.
There are no forced marriages in the Twelve Tribes, but they will often not allow a person to marry who they want and ask you to give them alternatives. It's each person's choice who they marry, but not every potential spouse is acceptable to them.
@@kiraalbright6931 hmmm. Still sounds like a lack of choice per my definition.
Ate there, it was creepy. I won't be going back. Nice video detailing a lot more than I was aware of.
glad you survived the meal. One cannot know what they are serving. I mean, if they serve you tea, and it f*cks you up on the way home, what are they serving for 'food'?
All I'm going to say is I live along the Appalachian Trail and if or when I hike it or any other trail, I'd like to be left alone. I don't want to be approached or talk to anyone while I'm minding my business hiking.
I've never heard of this cult and I've backpacked backpacked up and down sections of the Pacific Crest trail and all over the rocky mountains. I wonder if they're in Walter Martin's book "Kingdom of the cults"? They sound very controlling and thanks for making people aware.
I thought these cats are Appalachian, not west of the Mississippi really.
I grew up around Wonder Valley/Joshua Tree/Yucca Valley in SoCal, they had some weird ass UFO cults down there that lived in communal groups in Buckminster Fuller type dome structures.
@@whatabouttheearth I live in Southern Arizona and have hiked all over the mountains here for decades.
A new master to tell what me what to do, just what I need. LOL
I'm 72 years old. I've been around orthodox christianity since birth. I was compelled by my parents to attend catholic school. In my late teens,early 20's I was attempting to become a Protestant, the picture of my unhealthy condition, my bad behavior surfaced because I wasn't seeking a relationship with Christ, but a community to enter and live at peace with. In 1974, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, and a certain liberation occured in me. I had amazing contact with God, visually, and inwardly. I saw some visions, and was given a look into my future with God. The reality of Christ became ingrained in my heart. But I wasn't out of school at that time. 25 more years would pass where when I did what I felt God was telling me to do? I received spiritul growth, and a degree of maturity. When I entered my 60's I saw what worked, and what failed in the Orthodox community. I learned that it was simple to agree with God on the treatment of others, especically people who were in extreme cults. God has always provided for me. Not a community. I in turn provided for those that had issues with faith. I discovered that "if you are God's?" He provides. One just needs to tune in to what he is offering. These days I play guitar for an African American American Baptist Church. I tithe because I know God is faithful to his word. I support the ministry in any way I can, financially, musically, and as much as is possible, joyfully. I look back on a difficult life, made that way, becuse I wouldn't listen for the next move God was handing me. I discovered that God found me, and not vice versa. Once you belong to God? Nothing else is difficult. One doesn't need to be overly mystical. Although that is necessary to overcome something negative in your spirit. Hatred flees, wisdom comes, and real maturity in how to live is present. Soon I'll leave this body and my time will be over. But God never gave up on me, and I will have had a beautiful end to this existence, All I had to do was listen? Then Do it.. No special withdrawl from society, No doctrinal borders. Just patience, and awareness. If one reads the new testament closely? One can see that possibly a verse or two were what the apostles expounded upon and not the entire spectrum of successes, or failures held within. Christ showed that religion was a business. An earthly security. people do need to read the bible, but not memorize it and use it as a weapon on the unsuspecting. One may not "know" God for a long time. But if he has made you his? You'll hear his voice. Love him with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself.
I stayed at the yellow deli and they were always trying to get use to visit their community and was having their new members talk to us about how much their lives have improved since joining them. Just watch out if you stay with them.
The only difference between a 'religion' and a 'cult' is the number of people. They don't necessarily have beliefs that are more crazy than any other religion.
Super interesting! I can't wait for part 2.
Where is that waterfall at 36:30? It's stunning 😍
I don’t know 😅 I found some copyright free drone videos of nature on Pexels
Enjoying a nice glass of Cabernet. Thanks for your video!
Thanks for this video. Great information.
Overall I think your thoughts are interesting, I never heard about the 12 tribes, good video keep it up
Good video. You drew my attention right in
Thank you for watching!
Great job on this series since I came back to rewatch.
Coors light is essentially beer flavored la croix right?
these goofs have run a deli in my town for years they’re basically harmless as long as you’re not a member lol
Oneonta?
Nice to know they are out there and to not be roped in by them. Thank you for the heads up.
I have never tasted LeCroix. If we sit down for a drink and you ask me what I'm having, that's easy: Samuel Adams Boston Lager. Yum! 😋
If you're engaging in discussions with Bible-based denomination which you believe are cults, I'd like to offer an approach to speaking with them, a rubric if you will....
First, ask them if the Bible alone has everything in it to help a person understand the faith, or not. If they answer yes, you respond by saying that according to your own admission, I won't need further assistance in understanding it from you.
If they say "No, you need the help of me/our group to interpret and understand it", then ask who founded the group, and why this person is qualified to interpret the Bible more than other people.
Then ask them if they believe that the first generations of Christians had the "right understanding" or not. If they say "no", this is very strange. But if they say yes, ask them about the writings and teachings of three people in particular:
Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna and Clement of Rome.
Those three are known as the "Apostolic Fathers" in that they were taught Christianity by the Apostles directly. Clearly, no other extra-Biblical source has that level of credibility. If you bone up on the Apostolic Fathers, you are well fortified to discuss Christianity with any group trying to pressure your understanding, and indeed you can give THEM something to think about.
If you want to take it a step further, ask them if Christ was correct or incorrect when He said "the gates of hell shall not prevail" against the Church He established. They can answer either that Christ lied (?!) or that His Church endured in an unbroken Tradition.
Then ask why they didn't seek out that Tradition instead of making up their own interpretation.
Then, if you want to take it a step further, ask them if they ever heard of the concept of "Spiritual self-deception", which Tradition and community is meant to guard against.
Christianity has a long history of rationality, it isn't the subjective ignorant mumbo-jumbo its often portrayed as. But Christianity also has a long history of cults popping up with have no rational or spiritual basis. We're therefore quite used to responding to these.
When I lived in Colorado I was right down the street from 1 of their businesses. I frequently got smoothies from them. The leader & I have the same name. He was nice & seemed pretty interesting. However I later sat down with him. He had a very shallow understanding of the Bible. Wich surprised me. Once I realized he didn't know much about scripture I steered the conversation twords thought experiments & analogies. Right away he realized that I was a bit more educated. He wouldn't go any further with the conversation. I could tell he was extremely suspicious of me & veiled hostility was brewing. So I said good day. He was always nice to me after that but would avoid conversation. Later a friend of mine named Collin joined them. He left town & went to the California group got anointed ect. When he came back we talked he was pretty open but obviously was trying to steer me away from my curiosity. Later he quit & came back to secular culture. He bad mouthed them big time. I said when I was trying to talk to you. You where evasive & seemed closed off. He said yes I had been warned about you. That you where not to be trusted because others thought I would find out what was going on & expose or confront them. I don't know because I didn't join them. But from knowing people & hearing about the dark side. I would say they have a sever sketchy side
Your really good at this, thank you sending love
That's crazy. Comment for the algorithm.
I’ve been watching a lot of thru hiking content lately, but until stumbling across your channel and video I’d never heard of them. Though I found the video very informative, the way the information was presented, as a voice over against a slideshow of pretty landscape pictures and videos that with a few exceptions had little to do with the subject, lessened it’s impact considerably.
I honestly didn’t know what else to put on the background. But thank you for the tips
Their is a branch in pulaski TN and the nursing school does clinicals on their compound they called the farm.they also have a resturant called the yellow deli there it a really popular restaurant.
excellent. video very informative. thanks
Just because they call themselves the twelve tribes tells me they are not Jewish at all, there's a lot of deceivers out there.
So glad I found your channel. Watched #2 first but had to come back and see this. And Yes. So good and great. Liked and Subscribed. A very interesting topic and you handled so very well. A fine objective study. Just great. Spanking? I say nope.
Thank you for such a positive comment 😊
This sounds like the Hebrew roots movement. Not unheard of. Very interesting story, I've never heard any of this before, thanks for the info.
I forgot I had heard of this group until finding your video. I also had no idea they were connected through the hiking community. I will say that the “face value” outward message they seem to promote is pretty straight forward Christian fundamental. While many large denominations diverge from some of their beliefs many large denominations also stray from simple biblical teachings. That said, a LOT of simple teachings are twisted by many groups. This brings me to the part about subservient women. You were looking for thought on this so here it is. Many, many, churches, denominations, and cults cherry pick their teachings on “womens rolls” using 1 Peter where it talks about wives being submissive to their husbands and what not. Anyone teaching that women are not equal to men are flat out wrong. This is not true. In fact women held some of the most important rolls and were highly trusted by even Jesus. What is meant by all this subservient talk is that when people truly love each other they put their own wants and needs secondary to supporting the needs of the ones they love. And in this way they are serving them. And this goes both ways for men and women. And the Bible even states that. So teaching otherwise is seriously misconstruing the message. If you have a genuinely loving relationship. And set your needs aside for your partner to support them. And this is a two way street and they do for you. Neither of you will ever go without. This is the way lol. Anyone using biblical teachings to place women beneath men is, for lack of a less crass expression, seriously fucked up.
Uhhh didn't this group start a big fire in Boulder recently?
Allegedly
It sounds like a lot of groups like this - they internalize some weird European conservative interpretations of the Bible, claiming it was the "original version."
"It takes a village to raise a child." HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
Q: In America, what is the different between an accepted religion and a cult?
A: About 100 years.
I'm glad I caught this because I'd never heard of them at all.
From that one picture (7:00-ish), looks like they could use a banjo player. Or maybe two.
I mean you really just described all current religions... Not just exclusive to 'twelve tribes'. They all seek new members, preach about their faith, are manipulative and can be pushy or do questionable actions behind closed doors. Thanks for your incite and research.
Great vids. Love from Canada.
I noticed they stayed out of West Virginia. Good call.
i drink sparkle water as a preference. the la coy stuff is nasty in the extreme and it's way too expensive.
I am a parent. And the last thing I want to do is insulate my children from the real world. Seems like that would be setting them up for confusion and failure as adults.
I plan on showing them as many cultures and places as I can afford. I plan on teaching them to be critical thinkers. So they can examine reality and be well rounded successful adults, ready to take on anything that comes their way.
Please Green Giant: if you do want to take your kids around the world and expose them to lots of different ways of thinking get clear about what YOU believe. Your kids will need to know how you came to those conclusions far more than what those conclusions are. Because each generation must come to their own. My generation did not do this well at all. Blessings on your way!
I commend these people for breaking away from clown world. 🤡🌎
Reminds me of my favorite quote: “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a truly sick society”- Jiddu Krishnamurti
Yea they’re a cult basically…..so….
What’s to admire. Maybe do a bit more research on a group before praising and saying how brilliant they are.
Christ what’s everyone got against researching these days? Wtf
I love me some J. Khrishnamurti!
Where did Krishnamurti say that? 'Freedom from the Known"?
I had a professor who studied under Krishnamurti for a decade
The brilliance of Krishnamurti is when he became of age and it was time to tell his "followers" his teaching he said "follow no leaders" because this will create a distortion pattern.
And the amazing paradox in this is the question, who were his real "followers"? Those who left? Or those "followers" who stayed with him to learn his teachings?
In the words of a random Redditor, "it could very well be 'Freedom from the Known', that book has more punchlines than a rap album"
@@6Haunted-Days
He's praising the ones who left the cult.
Great work--fairly and well presented.
Do they have healing gifts or any kind of spiritual gifts like the early church who healed people?
I didn't see anything like that in my research
Personally I saw multiple red flags before you even got to the problematic part. Encouraging leaving currents relationships behind (cutting one off from family and friends) changing your name (erasing your identity to create a new one) giving them all your money and possessions (financial control). Cults are dangerous even if they are technically not breaking the law. And of course they are going to act nice and happy when outsiders are around. That's how they operate.
That's why,in my eyes anyway,the lines between religions and cults are blurry at best.I'm wary of either one.I'd rather stand(or fall on my ass) on my own.
What religion requires you to any of these things? But I get the vibe. Religion has a culture and feels somewhat forced at times.
@@dfinlen Some religions do,but just more subtly.They make the susceptible feel morally superior to anyone who thinks differently.That would explain missionaries and the plain old fashioned smug and self righteous.Pit religions against each other and it can resemble and arms race.
@@dfinlen Jesus said "anyone who comes to me must hate their father and mother" and "if you want to be perfect, sell your possessions and give to the poor, you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me." This was a call to follow a wandering homeless preacher into a life of asceticism with no jobs or care for how they might survive. The casual masses of Christians, Buddhists, etc., aren't really disciples, aren't following their gurus' teachings. They adopt a popular, watered down culture based on them. If Christians followed what Jesus said, they'd live as their monks do, same for the rest. This is a life of asceticism where you give all your possessions, take a new name, pledge obedience, and all the rest of those culty things our cult-ure sees as an affront to life as it is "meant to be" ... ie, the exact same exploitation with members exactly as blind to it. A spiritual life is vulnerable to abuse as such, but that vulnerability is a result of turning away from materiality, which is the foundation of spirituality, which is the foundation of religion.
Every mo is a form of mental abuse
Regardless of their beliefs the practice of locating along the hikes where they can prey on young people alone and possibly vulnerable due to the physical challenges of thru hiking is predatory.
Some of you don't realize there are people who come out to these trails with no direction or family they can trust or lack of family at all. Some people that never had anything decent in there life. Then when they get to a place like that they surrender themselves to that because it is better for them than anything they have ever experienced. I bet there are quite a few that lay down at night and are grateful they are where they are in comparison to what they came from. Glad you all have cushy lives with structure but not all do. You call it predatory some call it saving.
Not everyone that steps foot on trail is a thru hiker. Some are just looking for a better life to what they came from.
Cults are predatory by nature, no?
Did you know that a cult controls virtually institutions? Freemasons include almost all famous and powerful people such as democrats.
@@breadlowry Satanic cults, yes. Democrats are a cult.
Kids aren't allowed to ride bikes or converse with other children, that's a major red flag of something weird.
Exactly the way leftists democrates won't let their kids play with republican kids huge red flag right there.
Big time red flag.
Eh I wouldn’t call it one. The Amish don’t ride bikes either. It’s pretty obvious why they don’t want them talking to outsiders children when you see how kids act and are raised these days.
@@Markustempest The Amish most definitely ride bikes. In fact they ride electric bikes now.
@@Markustempest the kids that they will need to be able to socialize with when they get older? In my experience the more you shelter someone the more they want out...
Example: kids that live with extremely strict parents often go nuts when they are finally on thier own.
All cults do two things: 1. Remove peoples assets so they are not independent financially 2. Isolate people from outside media and people in general .... Twelve Tribes qualifies on both counts... AVOID.
Sooo covid.
I think that's pretty specific, I would include Evangelicals, mainly Dominionists as a cult, specifically a doomsday cult. And also fundamentalist Islam/JW/Mormons
Early Christianity demanded a separation from family as well. You were to follow the teachings of JesusChrist and nothing else.
All religions are technically a cult. Every definition of cult tries to make it sound like the big organized religions aren’t cults, but they are. Size and age and popularity of said religion doesn’t mean anything. A cult is a cult is a cult.
Good thing you wrote "avoid" in capital letters. THANKS
YUP
I’m shocked. This is the first I’m hearing of this group. What a bizarre story. These cults always seem to start out with good intentions. Then they seem to morph into absolute control, abusive, perverted, etc, etc. These children are in danger in my opinion. I would never support this cult in any way. Thank you for this video, well done.
The own a 24 hour restaurant here in Chattanooga, where they started. It has awesome food
lmfaoo. they are no different than our current government education (indoctrination) society in North America..we have a prison system based on lies .. medical mis information, forced vaccines..tax laws corruption, molestation and in canada is even worse child rapists are protected and given the best care , food and security ..
I could go on ..
Freemasons are a cult. They include the president.
Sounds like any other religion
@@richeyrich2203 Exactly.
My cousin is a part of this tribe. Heartbreaking. He couldn’t be with his sister when she passed away from cancer and although she’s not a part of the tribe, she did handle her cancer the way the tribe would… all natural treatment, (forced by my psycho aunt ) so I’m not sure how he could even shun her in that time. But his commune voted and he wasn’t allowed to see her. Why not come and pray over her? I dunno. It’s just a crazy thing to see your own family in such a cult… and now he’s a leader himself. 😔
Wow 🥺 that's cruel
So sorry. This is unfortunately a pretty common story.
Thats horrible! I'm so sorry. I agree other than I would agree I guess with them on the natural treatments. I knew someone with cancer who refused the hospital treatments and they lived. But it should always be a choice and who did they think they were to tell someone they couldn't see a dying relative! That's definitely a cult!!! And they actually call themselves followers of God
Twelve Tribes is also working to engage with the live aboard and long term sailing community. They operate a 100+ foot sailing ship called Peacemaker that moves from place to place along the east coast of the US. There are Yellow Deli restaurants in several towns along the Intercoastal Waterway.
Wow !!!!! Intriguing.
THAT bit of info is very very spooky.
I remember the nightmare of Antelope, Oregon.
One of the members became an employee of
CA. State Disability in Sacramento, years later,
still preaching to word.
Same thing with Phish and Grateful Dead concerts, been avoiding these people for decades now.
Fun fact: as a child, my parents nearly dragged me and my little sister into this cult. I'm eternally grateful that two of my aunts had done the research on it. Legitimately saved our lives. I'm sat here with my iced coffee and ready for this deep dive. I want to see what bullets I managed to dodge.
Wow! Thank goodness for your aunts.
Pre-internet and I would understand how some might "accidentally" get wrapped up with them. Glad it didn't happen for you. I'm just baffled how current-day through hikers are so naive and give them any legitimacy by accepting anything from them. Their decades of child abuse, racism and misogyny are well documented at this point. Just look at all the videos of former members who openly discuss their theology on UA-cam alone. Who doesn't research the groups that are "too good to be true" in the 21st Century?! It's absolutely mind-boggling to me.
Glad you were spared....did your parents still join and ate they affiliated with the 12 tribes today.
Great research and reporting.. the 12 tribes have been around and recruited from the Grateful Dead community for many years .. it makes sense that they would target the hiking community
From what I have seen they use some pretty cool looking vintage buses to lure in people on Dead Lot and start a conversation. But it would seem that they mostly prey upon the lost young wooks that came to the show alone and with few resources. Likely someone just looking for a place to sleep or a ride to the next show. Next thing they know they're cut off from their family and working like a slave on a commune or some sandwich shop. Sadly, that might actually be a better option for some people than living on the street.
@@Brandon-em4qh Damn, extremely valid perspective I hadn't considered before. The victims of these people COULD be homeless. When you consider how tragic the conditions of homelessness are, does being susceptible to and joining a cult really seem that bad? I mean, I might disagree with their methodology, but would it be better if they were sleeping under a bridge high on heroine? Maybe finding a place in a cult is for the best for SOME people.
@@Brandon-em4qh yep .. agree.. i've been on that bus .. and for sure, their trip is a lot better than what some folks find themselves in on the street .. shakedown and others
Yup. As a traveling Dead Head back in the day I ran into these guys a couple of times at the Ithaca show. They seamed very friendly and inviting at the time. Glad I didnt succumb to their cult.
I got picked out by them in '90 Landover Maryland ....after hitchhiking to the shows alone from utah...got raped along the way.. i was a wreck when they picked me out on the lot...
Frankly the moment where a kid is not allow to "play" it 's
a moral deal breaker!
I was Homeschooled in upstate NY and at 9th grade I was given a choice to go to public school...there was one boy who started coming to school who was from a Twelve Tribes movement that had tried to start a branch or moved into the area.
How he came to be placed in public school I'm not sure but I don't think it was voluntarily.
He was very quiet and meek and a super sweet boy...hard to get to know but really respectful. Even to me at 16 which he would have been maybe 14? He had a lot of signs of a severely abused child.
He told me that everyone's children belong to the entire tribe. The kids all lived together in a separate home sorta like an orphanage but then all the community was involved in the running of it; that would seem to contradict the idea kids weren't allowed to interact at all but perhaps different branches operate a little differently 🤔
He said he wasn't allowed to know who his birth parents even were.
Some kids did know because they were told secretly but they wouldn't be allowed any kind of special bond or relationship.
I'm not sure exactly what abuse was specifically but when the Tribe left the area; they left because local schools were very involved legally in the kids situations and because of that a few kids were removed and put into child protective custody...he stayed and entered foster care and was adopted.
I don't think that was a Twelve Tribes group your friend was in. They never have their kids in public school, they say it contaminates the kids. Krishna communes used to have children's houses, maybe it was that. All adults can do any amount of discipline on your child in the tribes, but they are your kids, and if you aren't "receiving" enough to admonish them properly, you can be punished; meaning, you don't get any days off, you have to work night time meal prep for the deli, or even get sent to another location to work away from you kids. The kids can NOT interact with each other. Yoneg was pretty adamant about that. If kids interact without supervision they can contaminate each other, so every time you see little kids hanging out with each other and they aren't family members, the adults will separate them. They can work together, and interact a little bit, but not much. You see them make shallow conversation while they work together, but they always look at the adults around them to make sure no one is mad, and they keep it about things they do, or are learning about mechanics, or jobs. The kids do have a special bond with their parents, and are required to show respect, but...this is kind of cool...everyone is encouraged to tell on everyone, especially the kids telling on the parents. So sometimes you see the parents breaking a plate, or otherwise screwing up, and they stare around to see if the kids see. Sure enough, little negotiations happen over discipline.
The abuse is not being allowed to bond with their parents... they did an unethical experiment of just that thing back in the day.
@@CS-uc2oh They have a lot more abuse than that, but yes, the kids minds are so fecked up over their parents. And they never get to interact with other kids in the community even. Of course they find ways to hang out and talk together, but it has to be sneaky, and it's always "wrong", so some that have left still have a child's social skills as adults.
These groups are so scary. Putting on a pleasant facade to groom and draw people in, but behind the scenes, horrific abuse.
I was horrifically abused by my step father, an atheist. Should we ban families too?
@@thehouseofcrumblingidols2694 yes, by all means
This is a very informative video production!
I was a teacher and child care provider in Free Methodist church for 3 years. I worked, sometimes up to seven days per week, depending on what was happening that week. I taught ages 3 years old through 5th grade. I was the lead instructor for groups of up to 70 children at a time. I taught over a thousand different children per month. My expertise, was in working with especially traumatized or disturbed children.
Not one single time, in that entire three years, did I ever raise my hand or my voice to a child. Never, in my entire life, has there ever been a justification for striking a child. To do so, would only be blatant admission, that you are not mentally or emotionally mature enough to outsmart a child. Every single dilemma encountered with a child, can be dealt with through love, patience, and teaching by example. I never encountered a child who posed a threat, but I suppose such a circumstance might warrant use of reasonable force to prevent a child from causing harm to their self or others.
100%
Bullshit. And I'm sure children run over you and you think it's mature to put up with it.
We need more people like you in this world
@@matthewcraig8926 thank you 🤗 lead by example!
I had a close friend who had to physically escape a cult. The sharing of everything is a major red flag. She lost all of her savings, which she didn't get to spend, but cult leaders used at will.
There is a certain subset of hikers on trails like the AT who are looking for something or looking to get away from something, making them possible recruits for a group offering "answers". In my earlier days, I hiked to separate myself from society, reconnect with nature and to think without the normal distractions and I can easily imagine a pastural group being attractive to that me.
I guess it just depends on who you run into from these groups. The folks I ran into were too invasive and couldn’t take hint. Maybe some are less creepy, but no one would feel comfortable arounds the guys I met.
I stayed at a 12 tribes Virginia location in 2007. After a few days, and an aggressive 12 tribes member, flashing a flashlight in the middle of the night, in my eyes, I left. The mask extreme control measures, under a "mantle" of love. The 12 tribes is evil. Not joking.
Anyone that tells you they know what happens to you when you die is a liar. Anyone that claims to have any understanding of god (anything that created the entire universe) is an arrogant, dangerous liar who has to control other people. Our squishy electromagnetic difference engine can't conceptualize hardly anything but you think you've got a lock on the creator of the universe. Yeah, okay bud..
And anybody that thinks they KNOW it is impossible for The LIVING Holy Bible to have been divinely written/inspired by The One True God that created EVERYTHING, is obviously trapped in a mere mortal mind and because he cannot fathom there is much more to this world than what he can see and learn from public schools is simply confined and unable to think outside of his egotistical little box, and such a person is the photo child for the typical human that suffers from Dunning Kreuger Syndrome. For those mere mortals that have been shown MORE by seeking the truth, and accepting the fact that, that LIVING Bible could not have POSSIBLY been written by humans alone, because the prophecies alone make it nothing short of supernatural, and this world could not have POSSIBLY evolved from rock and rain, and most importantly, the commonly accepted narrative these days that MAN CAN BECOME A GOD is a deception that only a proud fool could think possible, as a man couldn't possibly create a world complete with everything life needs to live...
Well, the humans that realize we are all part of someone MUCH MUCH bigger are only made wiser by CHOOSING to open the door and letting in The Creator of all things, who then communicates with us in many ways and shares things with us that the proud human couldn't possibly understand, because His ego has him CONVINCED if he can't see it, it cant possibly be real. (He literally does not have eyes they can TRULY see, or ears that can TRULY hear) Those who have a personal relationship with The King of All Kings know just what a fool those that don't, ARE. These are TRULY the dangerous people as they go around trying to convince the people they meet that The One True and Real God that they've NEVER sought after, and never even met is not real! Thus causing his believers to wander aimlessly through life searching for a meaning that has no value because the true meaning has been discarded for a fairy tale. And all the while, the soul loses its true destination...all because they listened to and believed a fool who thought he had the answers, but literally knew NOTHING. Not even the basic reason WHY he was given life. If only you knew...What a life, what a world, what a King, WHAT A FATHER!!!
I agree even though I do love watching NDE videos. I take any belief without solid proof that I can touch and see with my own eyes with a grain of salt. That would be every single religion. Not to say such people with experiences are lying - but I recognize it also as their interpretation of what they experienced.
@@MsThebeMoon And that is actually very wise of you.😉 Because we really can't be sure who they actually met in that afterwordly life they experienced. It definitly could have been deception from OTHER spiritual entities... who knows. But remember this ONE thing. There is only ONE God that created EVERYTHING. Even He created those other gods that people choose to worship. And only that One God claims to have created ALL THINGS. Also, only that One God sent someone to this EARTH to prove the supernatural powers He has. This is because those other gods that claim to be God can't possibly do those miracles. (Healing the lame, the blind, and even being raised from the dead.) By claiming they could would prove to those that worship them they were nothing more than a wannabe, who simply wanted to be worshipped. The One True God has proved Himself over and over. Check this out for some proof these blessings were real...
ua-cam.com/video/vQKxoBpV2NE/v-deo.html
@@time2see192 No. I am NOT a deist and there is not enough historical proof of a Jesus. Had to edit. Keeping it simple. Jesus Christ is NOT my savior. I do not believe in ONE God. I do not believe in YOUR GOD. I do NOT believe in your heaven or hell. My beliefs are far beyond anything you could possibly comprehend because you are indoctrinated. You are not free to question. Not within yourself. You are confined by the fear that your religion tells you to be fearful of - eternal hell. Quoting Ron Reagan Jr. I'm "not afraid of burning in hell."
I think spanking a child for squirming during a diaper change or hitting children is evil. Don’t have to do much more research than this. I hope the state will visit monthly to give those who wish to leave an out. Never heard of them and it is important that people do.
A German 12 Tribes group was investigated using hidden cameras. The German authorities found sticks used to beat children. I saw a teeny bit of a beating given to a young child. It was beyond upsetting. Afterwards the group moved to Slavakia where they were able to continue their practices. It is very easy to get away with child abuse, even severe, in the US, sad to say.
The last time I spanked my son, he was about four years old. I didn't find it effective and I could see in his face his defiance and confusion. I rarely to never had ever spanked him before and just never did again. I was far from being a perfect parent, but that is one thing I'm so glad that I took his cue and never raised my hand again to my son. He's 40 now and I have no regrets of not spanking him as a young child.
Good video. In the 1960s(when I was a teen) there were a lot of groups "communes". Many made the founders wealthy. There is a chapter in Peter Jenkins' book A walk Across America where he spends time in one of those communes in the Tennessee area. Good Luck, Rick
Rick, thanks for your comment😊
The twelve tribes is also currently under investigation for starting the Marshall Fire in Superior, CO which burned down hundreds of homes.
I did not know that. That's very disturbing to say the very least.
Whatttt
A very informative video. I enjoyed a double zero with them when I thru hiked in 2021. They were good hosts, but at the time I thought there might be a lot more going on behind the scenes - things they don't share openly with the public. My biggest concern was how the children were treated. They seemed to be happy enough but getting beaten with a stick 20 times a day is way beyond abusive.
What does double zero mean?
@@davidgreenwood6029 taking a zero means to not home any miles. Doing a double zero means they took two days off and didn't accomplish any miles towards getting further along the trail.
You saw them beat children 20+ times in a day, or you're just spreading hearsay?
Thank you for the nice video essay. very well put together. love the format. .. I have had a few run ins with them in the past. but not from the hiking community. i have seen them at RV and van life gatherings. they own a very very rare bus/rv thing. like only a handful exist in the world. they will take it to these gatherings to entice people to come in and have some tea. then when i joined the hiking community i find them at trail days offering free food and tea. .... hmm.idk. just screams jim jones to me.
Was it the Peacemaker? I’ve seen pictures and videos of it
@@taratreks yup. very beautiful
Oh my, they gave me the tea at one of their restaurants in San Diego. I and the person I was with felt “drunk” or “stoned” for hours after we drove home. They said it was Yerba Matte. But the experience was NOT something I ever felt with JUST tea.
Huh.
@Ghost-User..just watched a 911 episode last night with the hippie tea..lol
@@ladypaw Reno 911? They had a tea episode lol?
Man, I remember thinking the yellow deli was great, and the people seemed friendly enough, but I am glad we got out of the range of the cult and drove home before the tea hit. Whatever it was it made us weird for a few hours at least.
1st Coffee. 2nd, I ate at their restaurant in NC once. Couldn't put my finger on what was giving me the creeps. Now I know. Cool vid, keep up the good works. Stay blessed.
The one thats in Hiddenite?
@@skylarsartnphotography3450 No, it was near Hickory, NC. What a creepy place.
I knew these folks over 40 years ago in Chattanooga. LOTS of accusations and problems way back and it looks like not much has changed. Thanks for this research.
This has a particular poignant resonance with me and my experience with the twelve tribes. They acquired a lot of property and opened up a yellow deli near where I grew up in the past decade and my family told me about it and how wonderful the people and food there was, so a few times before the pandemic when I was there visiting I went there with them. The very first time my girlfriend at the time and I were pretty much being actively recruited by staff there and immediately my “this is a cult” alarms started going off full force. I expressed my concerns to my family and my girlfriend and they thought I was overreacting and that the twelve tribes were doing this wonderful work. I did not really press the issue as I had seen enough from there literature that they gave out and from my personal interactions with them to make up my own mind, but this video helped me realize just why my initial feeling was that something way darker was lurking under the facade of their public business persona. Thank you for sharing this information in an objective and fact based manner.
A cult is a cult. All are dangerous. Stay away, you never know when you might be vulnerable, especially when you are away from your normal support group/family/friends.
Christianity is the biggest one of all!! And if u don't see it you're blind
Christianity is also a cult.
So is judeaism.
That definition of cult is not the mainstream definition.
The Colt is actually defined as any group of people of like mind who come together to take action on a cause which usually includes the spreading of a core belief structure shared by members of The cult. (Or something like that.)
Democrats are a satanic cult. They sacrifice babies, swear allegiance to their gods of wokeism, such as race climate gender and abortion
Especially Catholics and Christian’s.
@@kenkneram4819 Yeah, I don't find the definition of a cult being "small" to be useful. The biggest cult I'm aware of is the Catholic Church. The organizational structure is all top down from what I can tell, same as any cult.
Women do all of the cooking, cleaning and child care. Single women are constantly required to watch other people's children on top of their normal jobs and they are usually the ones who do most of the dishwashing after meals. Single women are also often the ones assigned to do the early morning animal chores and are the ones who have to get up at 5am to cook breakfast. When they go on tour on the Peacemaker bus, the women do all of the cooking for the men on the bus, and they also do all of their laundry. When I was there, the only leisure time I got on Saturday was spent sleeping as I never slept enough during the week. We all worked 15 hrs a day.
Working 15+ hours a day is not unusual in third world countries or remote areas of the USA. That much work might sound excessive to most, but rewarding to others. The key here is not to try to judge unless you have walked in their footsteps. I have not spent one minute in this cult, but have to admin that some of my favorite days on the AT were spent hiking 15-16 hours a day, which to many Thru-hikers can be considered to be "work". I don't advocate what I just heard about child discipline from ANY adult! That's a bit crazy IMO!
@LightWalker I lived in the TT for 3 years. It is definietly a high control group. Members are not given a choice with regard to the amount or type of work they are given, and single women do not have any "leisure time" apart from a handful of hours on Saturday afternoon. I was only getting 4-5 hrs of sleep a night, and it negatively affected my mental and emotional state which is why I ultimately left.
I stayed in the yellow deli on my hike last year.
I had a great experience, i also helped them clean after dinner and make breakfast. Both the man and the women worked as far as i could see.
I think as someone who grow up as a religious jew i think Americans, mainly white millennial “woke” kids are very disconnected with religion and how other cultures/ people live.
For example both in Judaism and Islam women must dress in a certain way etc..
Just because these are big religions and not consisted of “White Americans” they are getting a waiver for negative effects they might have or cause to other people.
This is just my 2 cents,
The only difference between a religion and a cult is the size of it. as you have mentioned in your video.
@@groundflax If I was a man I would have probably stayed in the TT. The married couples retire to their room after meals. If a single brother is particularly zealous, he might stay to help with the dishes on occasion, but it is not expected and only the women are assigned to cooking duties, which includes dishwashing. I spent about 5-7 hours a day washing dishes when I was there. We also make all of the lunches for the men to take with them on their jobs.
Ehud, cults also do 'mind bending' to get control of the members. They would start that young, like the 6 months mentioned, to insure members stay. That's just a couple of more differences between religions and cults.
At 7:25, I honestly don't see any difference between this belief and that of say, Buddhism, Islam, et al. beliefs which also have many of the same stances regarding lifestyles, up to and including grooming dictates, such as makeup, hair length, and facial hair (~11:00 or so). The same with "new names." Some major religions (see Buddhism again) also require giving up personal wealth and possessions. While some may consider these "extreme" views, I don't think its fair to use that as a discriminator. Also, while I don't necessarily agree with these people, I think its biased to call them "a little off." According to whom? What if we're the ones who are "a little off?" Again, I know you just mean "non standard" WRT the general culture at large, but your terminology matters.
As another example, at 12:14 you say "it seems..." That's a perception comment. How do you know it conforms to reality? What examples do you have of them being "ultra controlling" (12:23), to highlight my point? "It CAN turn dangerous"(12:25)? So....has it "turned dangerous"?
You say it your job to "put the facts out there responsibly," and I respect that, yet you then follow that with the statement "Do not take my opinion for fact."
OK, but which is which?
At 4:38 you define them as a "cult," a term with largely negative connotations in the modern age, yet you rely only on select eyewitness accounts in making this determination. Have you balanced these accounts with people who left the group yet who had a positive experience. At 18:22 you tell a story of a comment one of the women in the group made to you friend "Rascal" about becoming 'infertile' if she helped some of the men in the group lift a couch. On what basis do you assume that is a teaching of the group? It could just be someone making an odd joke, or employing some personal superstition, not a belief of the group. Yet you just assume it came from the group?
Like at 12:12 you state "Hence, for some prejudice groups with racist theology, this justifies slavery, which in my opinion is completely bonkers." And which groups are those? At 12:43 "there isn't a lot of information on the internet that are super reliable..." Then why not look for better sources?
"But, in my opinion, when the question 'Are we racist?' has to be posed on the 12 Tribes official website, then there is something deeper going on there."
Says who? Respectfully, that's not a logical conclusion.
Perhaps they felt the need to answer that question because they've been falsely accused of racism; did you ever consider that, or maybe even investigate whether some of the more outlandish claims against this group were even legitimate? Yet again (at 22:18) "If that is a teaching in the 12 tribes, I really hope its not." "IF??" Then you shouldn't insinuate that it is or even might be, if you don't know, and If you're going to post an allegation that incendiary, shouldn't you be absolutely sure of it first?
Also, you never actually provided one single example of any "racist" behavior in the group, just broad generalizations about their possible beliefs concerning race. I wonder too, if this was a "non-religious" group (say a Humanistic nature commune group, for example) would you feel the same way?
And if this was a majority Black or Hispanic group, would you just assume racism existed in it based on the same "evidence" you provide here? Do you see my point?
Finally, what exactly about this group is "Dangerous" or "Extreme"? Nothing you described in your video fits either of these adjectives.
Stephen Covey said it best in "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," with 'Seek first to understand, then to be understood.'
I've enjoyed your vids so far; this very opinionated, slanted, and speculative one isn't one of them.
My uncle was a member of the TT for 15 years. Just recently broke out. I remember visiting when I was younger. Very nice to me, but my uncle has told me stories that weren’t so great
Those would be interesting stories I bet.
@@fendermon yeah would like to hear stories from someone that was in it.
Then tell us or why bring it up?
@@brerrabbit4265 They're not my stories to tell. But they involve a lot of abuse, forced labor, thought control, love bombing, etc. Not much different than other stories that people have told about escaping cults.
@@dylandolbymusic7172 I got all of that from my step father and worse, and he's an atheist. A lot of these comments seem to just reflect a general disdain for religion.
well if they are racist they not following scripts cause the 12 tribes were all different races there are many people of color from 12 tribes of Israel
Why can't the states where this trail is put up warning signs at the trails entrance informing the public about cult encounters .The last thing I want when out in nature is to run in these " Reverend Jim Jones " types and inadvertently drink their Kool-aid. I mean trail officials warn about bears and mountain lions but not about the cults . That doesn't sound right to me .
There's far worse things in the wild than cults and bears. check out missing 411 project. The AT has several cluster zones of strange missing people cases. Basically you go into the wild or out your front door practice situational awareness. Realize you're responsible for your own safely. Also gun and personal locator beacon when going into the wild.
@@melanieortiz712 I think the best advice is never hike alone even if the hiker considers him or herself fiercely independent ,strong capable and individualistic.
That would be a little wierd, would it not? Life is full of people of all sorts. We are all grown-ups on the trail, capable of being appropriately wary of such folks. One thing I'm reading over and over in these comments is how, even though the TT community was nice, something felt off, creepy, or just not right. I think that wise people will know when they are being sucked into a scam, while those who are vulnerable to such will eventually fall prey to someone, somewhere. Listen to your gut!
For people interested in the "mind control" or "brainwashing" aspect. Please look at the BITE model to evaluate high control groups. Behavior Control (including when you have sex and with who, what you eat, how you dress, do your hair, etc), information control (what information are you allowed to access), thought control ("that thought isn't in line with what the leaders teach or wants--- stop!" Or just manipulation), emotional control (that emotion isn't acceptable, including even righteous anger, sadness, depression, etc).
The BITE model is VERY flawed and almost any religion can be twisted into the model. I've given examples of this before by applying Islam, Judaism, and Catholicism.
I went to UTC for a bit in Chattanooga and visited the Yellow Deli a Couple of times, before I knew it was owned by a cult. It was just a 2 minute walk from my dorm . The food was good and the place was so hobbit like. But the workers were always very odd, would barley talk to you . I remember one guy who gave us our food looked like he was in a daze. Haven't been back in a few years but I stumbled upon your video and its very informative !
I’m so sorry you had such a horrible experience Karen.
I mean Holley
@@jamesramsey3572 oh I wasn't mad about them not talking . The waiter seemed like he was just out of it. The food was always good !
Glad to get the info before meeting the group. I grew up around the traditional horse and buggy Amish and my grandfather owned a small cattle farm so my views of kids working are vastly different than many. I learned several skills from working that I have in turn utilized in several jobs. I know people that grew up in their parent's garage and some turned into great mechanics while others simply putter in their own work space and save a ton of repair costs. There is nothing wrong with teaching children a skill and work ethic. Corrective punishment is different than abusive punishment. Abuse should be prosecuted. Isolationist interpretations of doctrine often lead to non-biblical traditions. Catholics, the Amish, and several denominations of protestants all form traditions loosely based on, or through broad interpretation of actual scriptures. While these traditions often convolute the daily living, you do have to examine the core relational beliefs concerning Christ to determine if they are harmless fringe, or bastardizing scripture for 'evil' intent.
Wow! what a descriptive and thoughtful comment. The last sentence you wrote is key. "core relational beliefs concerning Christ" I wonder about that a lot when it comes to what I am taught in my own non denom church.
This is what I was thinking.
Where would without you? 😆
In so far as working with family, I too agree that much can be learned. I personally am a strong proponent of organizations like the Boy Scouts exactly because of this.
Kids need to experience agency in their lives somewhere other than their video games. Lord knows they don’t get that in school these days. Giving them the skills and abilities to exercise their independence can be achieved by having them help with things in a safe environments like around the house and even at the business. This was certainly the case for myself.
Child labor is something totally different, once families are relying on their “dependents” for financial security, these children deserve to legally have ownership in whatever they are paying for.
I know of a few people who have to essentially pay rent and make payments for the car that they drive but don’t own. The fact that these families also use this as a leverage points for manipulating these kids to never leave the households is indicative of potential issues that these types of setups create. It’s abuse, financial abuse.
Were I to employ kids there is no question that they would get payed for their time, and have them work if they wanted to.
Our public school system no longer teaches God values (Love) but rather indoctrinates (brain washing and censorship) our future generation. How is this different from a cult? How has this been working out for our society? Destruction of self esteem, self worth and elimination of self reliance has led to expectation that the government should provide everything (new god) Result in lawlessness , homelessness, substance abuse and a disregard to human life. In my humble opinion both are controlling cults which one is working better for society? Or maybe it is time to go back to the basics and find our humanity again by Loving God and neighbor!
Cults, just like gangs and similar groups, simply prey on humans' innate desire for being socially accepted and part of a group. You will find that often members of these groups come from broken homes, etc.
If you're lost, all kinds of predatory people will be happy to help you find your way.
Targeting thru hikers is actually smart on their part if you think about it. Many hikers are out there seeking something spiritually. It makes them easier targets.
That's sad and makes me wonder why folks don't just go within instead of searching external sources that could land them in a cult
Wow. Twelve Tribes sounds like something out of Margaret Atwood's "Handmaid's Tale" with their contrived religiosity and massive imposition of total control downward, total obedience upward.
It was the physical punishment of children and the extreme shaming that caused my friend to extricate her family. She got herself and her husband and six children out. It took her a great deal of strength to get out.