Done this experiment 30 yrs ago with a friend swapping a passive and an active tube preamp . Same result - passive is cleaner and transparent while the active preamp is thicker and substantial. In the end the, passive's lack of oomph and weight, become its greatest flaw.
The older type passive preamps we're basically fancy potentiometers which created gain mismatch unfortunately. These newer TVC preamps handle that problem better
Passives are transparent and rather inexpensive but lack impact/bass compared to a good buffer or active preamp. Good active preamps cost more but can be as transparent without that shortcoming.
Very interesting. Thanks Kev. I would agree that it's definitely mains quality that is the issue. When I lived in the middle of a UK town it was a nightmare and only sounded best after peak usage hours. Out here in the American countryside it's a non-issue 24/7, most likely because the usage peaks are far less severe with far fewer users.
Apparently the national grid almost hits maximum once Eastenders has finished. Not because everyone is chucking a toaster into their full bath after watching such drivel but because everyone is boiling the kettle.. Basically yes mains is an issue at peak times 👍
Interesting review. Regarding mains induced distortion; "Garbage in = Garbage out" applies here as well. The most serious supplier of mains conditioning I know of is the UK based Puritan Audio Laboratories products. Regarding late night sensitivity. That applies when awakening from a deep sleep in a quite environment. Just as our sight in awakening to a dark room is much better than when we first turn out the lights, so too with hearing. Nor do I imagine that most late night listening occurs after a deep nap. Regarding battery supplied AC, there are now a number of portable battery power stations available. There have been several reviews extolling the benefits.
I've had a few passive pre-amps and they worked well but had the common problem of sounding very clean and transparent, but losing a bit of drive and sounding flat. After seeing the original positive comments about the TVC based pre-ampifiers I bought a Music First Classic V1 pre-amp second hand, along with some Quad 909 mono amplifiers. I had previously had a Rogers E40a tube amplifier which was superb with my (Cicabled) LS3/5as, but it had a transformer hum and I also wanted to run solid-state. This Music First pre-amplifier and the Quads gave me a comparable sound. I later got a Tact 2.2XP which I used as a preamplifier, giving me remote functionality. However I ended up also using the Music First as a buffer between the Tact and the Quads, as the addition seemed to clean up the treble (removing a digital hash?) but also give a better 'timbre' to the bass - perhaps it would be better to say that it corrected the Tacts output back to what it should have been as compared to what I could hear on headphones. I remember that it also seemed to make DAB radio sound better ! I later upgraded to the Classic V2 like the one hear, and that highlighted that the V1 had had a slight midrange boost, which probably helped make it sound more like that tube amp I was trying to replicate. The V2 was even better than the V1. However currently the V2 is sitting in its box as I upgraded to an Oppo 205 front end and Quad QMP mono amps and run the Oppo straight to the amps via XLR. Last I looked the XLR pass through wasn't working on the V2, so I need to send it in for service and correction. The Oppo sounds beter than the Tact did so I have been lax about it. Whenever I try a solid-state preamp (Quad, Bryston, etc) they always sound like they are a filter on the sound - perhaps if I tried a really expensive one it might be OK, but I think the Music First stuff is actually good value compared to what I would have to spend on a solid state preamp.
Wow, very cool. No remote kind of a dealbreaker. What about some passive pre’s with remotes? Hattor or Axiom come to mind. I know that technically would not be passive, but some are really good about isolating from PS 👍🏼🙏🏼
I am interested in these and would need one with remote, which they now do. But at over £6000, Can they be that much better? Not ruled them out yet though.
well the voltage at night is stable, through the day voltage gets pulled down. all that is a passive di box running with zero gain. you could connect it up to a powered preamp turn the volume to maximum on the powered preamp, you could do it either way from the passive preamp to the powered preamp, or the power preamp to the passive amp, give it a go see how you get on. check out Tom Evans 25th anniversary phono stage exceptional and very low noise 108 DB
@@dittonworks I don't think that matters too much the extra link in the signal chain will cause any degrade of sound far from it the advantages outweigh it. another way is to buy an autotransformer from electrical wholesalers for dividing rooms speakers, cheap. and connect the speaker output from your amp to the autotransform. if anybody is going to do it that way! don't run the volume maximum on a powered preamplifier, no more than 93% volume. long-term use can stress out the power amplifier, or you could just connect it up between the pre and power amplifier then you can run the volume maximum
no,you are wrong, it has nothing to do with mains, modern equipment can isolate reject and ignore any noise from mains. I am technical engineer in electronics and I am Shure of that. you can also see UA-cam channel "audio science review" some content about this topic.also on "kiss analog" topic audiophile power cable rant. the sound improvement you Heard is real but not of eliminate mains. it is because "less is more", you eliminated the pre amplifier section from the signal pass,and it known that every active device adds it's own characteristics, distortion phase shift frequency response alterations and so on. passive pre amp is not really pre amp, you can look at is as a wire but with line switch and a volume control (usually potentiometer of some sort). you can see it like you connected any device like CD or DAC directly to power amp without any pre amp (bypassing this section),that's why I said " less is more", less stages the signal have to to go is less alterations to it the more original qualities maintained, means higher quality. passive pre amp Acts like wire,no active component involved
Misspoke there sir.... the passive and its ability to "work" has nothing to do with the power of the amplifier but the sensitivity of the speakers. The impedance issue comes from a higher and higher resistance as you go. Horns? Fantastic! Maggie's? Sound like your cell phone
It's called passive because it contains only passive components; however, your point is valid - they really should be called passive pre-attenuators. 😀
www.mfaudio.co.uk/faqs/
Done this experiment 30 yrs ago with a friend swapping a passive and an active tube preamp . Same result - passive is cleaner and transparent while the active preamp is thicker and substantial. In the end the, passive's lack of oomph and weight, become its greatest flaw.
The older type passive preamps we're basically fancy potentiometers which created gain mismatch unfortunately.
These newer TVC preamps handle that problem better
Passives are transparent and rather inexpensive but lack impact/bass compared to a good buffer or active preamp. Good active preamps cost more but can be as transparent without that shortcoming.
Very interesting. Thanks Kev. I would agree that it's definitely mains quality that is the issue. When I lived in the middle of a UK town it was a nightmare and only sounded best after peak usage hours. Out here in the American countryside it's a non-issue 24/7, most likely because the usage peaks are far less severe with far fewer users.
Apparently the national grid almost hits maximum once Eastenders has finished. Not because everyone is chucking a toaster into their full bath after watching such drivel but because everyone is boiling the kettle..
Basically yes mains is an issue at peak times 👍
Interesting review. Regarding mains induced distortion; "Garbage in = Garbage out" applies here as well. The most serious supplier of mains conditioning I know of is the UK based Puritan Audio Laboratories products.
Regarding late night sensitivity. That applies when awakening from a deep sleep in a quite environment. Just as our sight in awakening to a dark room is much better than when we first turn out the lights, so too with hearing. Nor do I imagine that most late night listening occurs after a deep nap. Regarding battery supplied AC, there are now a number of portable battery power stations available. There have been several reviews extolling the benefits.
Thanks for watching and detailed reply 👍
I've had a few passive pre-amps and they worked well but had the common problem of sounding very clean and transparent, but losing a bit of drive and sounding flat. After seeing the original positive comments about the TVC based pre-ampifiers I bought a Music First Classic V1 pre-amp second hand, along with some Quad 909 mono amplifiers. I had previously had a Rogers E40a tube amplifier which was superb with my (Cicabled) LS3/5as, but it had a transformer hum and I also wanted to run solid-state. This Music First pre-amplifier and the Quads gave me a comparable sound. I later got a Tact 2.2XP which I used as a preamplifier, giving me remote functionality. However I ended up also using the Music First as a buffer between the Tact and the Quads, as the addition seemed to clean up the treble (removing a digital hash?) but also give a better 'timbre' to the bass - perhaps it would be better to say that it corrected the Tacts output back to what it should have been as compared to what I could hear on headphones. I remember that it also seemed to make DAB radio sound better !
I later upgraded to the Classic V2 like the one hear, and that highlighted that the V1 had had a slight midrange boost, which probably helped make it sound more like that tube amp I was trying to replicate. The V2 was even better than the V1. However currently the V2 is sitting in its box as I upgraded to an Oppo 205 front end and Quad QMP mono amps and run the Oppo straight to the amps via XLR. Last I looked the XLR pass through wasn't working on the V2, so I need to send it in for service and correction. The Oppo sounds beter than the Tact did so I have been lax about it.
Whenever I try a solid-state preamp (Quad, Bryston, etc) they always sound like they are a filter on the sound - perhaps if I tried a really expensive one it might be OK, but I think the Music First stuff is actually good value compared to what I would have to spend on a solid state preamp.
Another great review. Thank you!
Thanks for watching
As someone who tried a passive after using a tube pre for year - clear does not mean better.
That’s true
Wow, very cool. No remote kind of a dealbreaker. What about some passive pre’s with remotes? Hattor or Axiom come to mind. I know that technically would not be passive, but some are really good about isolating from PS 👍🏼🙏🏼
New version with remote out now 🎉
Great review, but, why not try out Music First's phono equipment? Pair them up....
I am interested in these and would need one with remote, which they now do. But at over £6000, Can they be that much better? Not ruled them out yet though.
It’s very clean sounding 👍
Only solution is to install your own transformer directly from the electric power company! Same here, after 10 pm EST.
well the voltage at night is stable, through the day voltage gets pulled down.
all that is a passive di box
running with zero gain.
you could connect it up to a powered preamp turn the volume to maximum on the powered preamp, you could do it either way from the passive preamp to the powered preamp, or the power preamp to the passive amp,
give it a go see how you get on.
check out Tom Evans 25th anniversary phono stage exceptional and very low noise 108 DB
I’m not going to try that buddy..
Extra link in the signal chain.
Thanks for watching
@@dittonworks I don't think that matters too much the extra link in the signal chain will cause any degrade of sound far from it the advantages outweigh it.
another way is to buy an autotransformer from electrical wholesalers for dividing rooms speakers, cheap. and connect the speaker output from your amp to the autotransform. if anybody is going to do it that way! don't run the volume maximum on a powered preamplifier, no more than 93% volume. long-term use can stress out the power amplifier, or you could just connect it up between the pre and power amplifier then you can run the volume maximum
@@hoobsgroove I’m not going to do that either 😂
@@dittonworks ok whatever!!
......nice one kev, do they do it in piano black :)
🤣
Haha 😂 yep
no,you are wrong, it has nothing to do with mains, modern equipment can isolate reject and ignore any noise from mains. I am technical engineer in electronics and I am Shure of that.
you can also see UA-cam channel "audio science review" some content about this topic.also on "kiss analog" topic audiophile power cable rant.
the sound improvement you Heard is real but not of eliminate mains.
it is because "less is more", you eliminated the pre amplifier section from the signal pass,and it known that every active device adds it's own characteristics, distortion phase shift frequency response alterations and so on.
passive pre amp is not really pre amp, you can look at is as a wire but with line switch and a volume control (usually potentiometer of some sort).
you can see it like you connected any device like CD or DAC directly to power amp without any pre amp (bypassing this section),that's why I said " less is more", less stages the signal have to to go is less alterations to it the more original qualities maintained,
means higher quality.
passive pre amp Acts like wire,no active component involved
No, you’re just more right 👍
Thanks for watching and detailed reply.
I do this as its fairly obvious but only if the power amp has gain control, if not then the passive/active pre is obvious.
Are you selling the Artera? 😁
Sold it a long time ago sorry
No problem, thanks for the great reviews 😉👍🏻
What is the price?
It's over £5000!
Misspoke there sir.... the passive and its ability to "work" has nothing to do with the power of the amplifier but the sensitivity of the speakers. The impedance issue comes from a higher and higher resistance as you go. Horns? Fantastic! Maggie's? Sound like your cell phone
amazing pre but no remote... that's a no no for me. 😔
Did you win the lottery?
😂😂
THERE IS NOTHING CALLED A PASSIVE PRE-=AMPLIFIER. IT IS CALLED AN ATTENUATOR.
NO need to shout!!!! Thanks for watching
It's called passive because it contains only passive components; however, your point is valid - they really should be called passive pre-attenuators. 😀