I bought my first SUT in 1977 - a Mitchell Cotter Verion P for $375. Kept it in use for 20+ years. The first LOMC I had was the GAS Sleeping Beauty/Coral B777 with elliptical stylus.
I tried a MC back in the late 1980s and never looked back. I have never used a transformer with my MC cartridges. I used a Threshold M1 impedance matcher for 30 years. I have had Denon 300, 103 D, and sumiko blue point 3 low output nude cartridges. I bent the stylus on the 300, the 103D is a backup now. The Sumiko is on a VPI cliftwood and I use a Jolida JD 9 tube output head amp. I absolutelly Love this combination and plan to hot rod the JD9. Its very quiet between tracks on custom, Klipsch Belle speakers.
Sounds like you’ve been at this for quite some time and having fun! I recently bought a Lounge Audio Copla head amp for my Pioneer TT & Denon 103 connected to a Sunvalley tube phono stage. I use the VPI TT with the Bob’s Devices SUT into the Sunvalley with a Hana MC cart. I’ll check out those Klipsch Belle speakers. Thanks for responding and keep on spinning!
I alas sold the Cotter some years ago. Now I have a Bellari, a Mike Sanders Quicksilver and two custom-made SUT's using mike transformers. And I am back to using the Coral B777 cartridge, among others in my collection - Denon 103, 103R, 160, 304 and Dynavector 10A plus the Ruby.
A very nice selection of cartridges! About six months ago I acquired a Hana Umami Blue MC cart. With my new DIY stereo rack I’m able to have two turntables. I use the Bob’s devices Sky 40 SUT with the Hana cart going into a Sunvalley tube phono preamp. It handles both MM and MC carts. I also bought a Lounge Copla head amp also feeding into the MM of the Sunvalley. For fun, I pulled out my Stanton 681eee MM cart. Sounds very nice. So what kind of music do you enjoy most? My favorite is jazz.
In 1976, I bought a high end audio system, spending a total of between $6000.00 -$7000.00 on it. I loved the system but something just didn't seem right; it seemed that it just wasn't reaching it's full potential. A month or so after buying the system, I read an article in Audio magazine (by the late, great Bert Whyte) on moving coil cartridges. In my system, I was using a Shure V15, type III. I'm not sure if Bert Whyte specifically mentioned the cartridge that I then replaced the V15, type III with, but I purchased a moving coil cartridge, the Supex SD-900 super, with it's small step up transformer. I also used the Infinity "Black Widow" tonearm. I cannot adequately express the difference that this change made in the system. My wife at the time, who was not an audiophile, said simply "That's incredible!" referring to the difference. Interesting how one apparently small change made such a profound difference. We used to drive into Tower Records, in Hollywood, to buy the latest Japanese pressings of releases that we liked. There was quite a difference in the quality of those releases as opposed to the ones made in this country.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! About a year ago I found a used Shure V15 VMR with no stylus. Found a NOS stylus thanks to my tech having one on stock. Great cart too. I’ve only lived in SoCal since the late 80s, but I do remember Tower Records. I need to look up that Super SD-900. Thanks again for watching👍👍
I have a ClearAudio/ Marantz turn table, it came with Virtuoso wood MM cartridge, I just sold the cartridge on eBay and got me Blue Ortofon MM, so far I'm a happy camper cause my turntable cost me now a mere $500.00. One day, when I have enough money to experiment with, I'll get the Sumiko Songbird and see what's the fuss is all about.
Very good video Virgil. I subscribed! I ran across your video by researching into what the heck was moving coils/moving magnets phono needles as I am about to buy a turntable to give it another try to my old vinyls collection. My self-Christmas gift was a audio set up with Wharfsdale bookshelf speakers (including a center channel for the TV enjoyment, although I am more into music listening than movies watching) and a Yamaha RX-A2A receiver. As I kept digging I got into the audio hobby vice and all of a sudden I found myself researching into what is best between music streaming vs. CDs vs. old-fashioned vinyls, and learning about these fancy high-end music streamers (I was all into phones/smart TVs-enabled streaming applications) that I didn't even know they existed. And now, deciding in a good turntable, either it is direct-drive or belt driven or the kind of stylus.
Thanks for the nice comment and for subscribing! I will post some new videos later this month. Building a double-wide stereo rack and hope to post a video of that too. Happy New Year Aldo
When I got back into TTs back in the mid-2000s I had an MC on an Technics SL-10 that I bought while stationed in Germany. It died and I bought an Audio-Technica AT-LP120 (bad mistake) and was using the AT440MLa MM cart. Later learned it was giving me headaches from being too bright (noise exhaustion). I wanted to get back into the MC scene as I had before and researched and listened to more than a few needle drops here on YT and liked the Ortofon MC-3 Turbo. It's a HOMC that has excellent sound. I later bought a Nagaoka MP-150 and then the Denon DL-103r. I have three TTs in my house. I have a Pioneer PL-7 in my living room's 5.1 system connected to an ART DJ PREE II Phono Preamp. My other two TTs are my Rega Planar 2 that I use to digitize my album collection with the DL-103r through a Schiit Mani preamp. My 2nd main TT is a Technics SL-Q2 that I also use through a Schiit Mani. I use the Schiit SYS as a switch between the Rega and Technics. I also use the same Blue Jean cables on my TTs. I did look at Bob's Devices, but they are way too expensive for my budget. Thanks for the video!
Hi George, Thanks for watching. I subscribed to your channel and watched some of your vids including your room tour, your Pickering XV-15 and a Pioneer TT restoration. Have you tried streaming music via Spotify, Tidal etc. through your system? How about a new room tour video? Blue Jeans cables are such a bargain and well built. Great for gear swapping too. Yes, the SUTs from Bob’s Devices are a little steep in terms of price. Keep on spinning!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector I've been streaming with Qobuz for almost 2 years now and I love the variety and the Hi-Res quality. Since I really can't afford to buy and LPs right now I stream quite a bit in between spinning vinyl! I currently have both of my TTs on one hanging platform. Maybe when I get some time I'll update with a video of my current setup that's been my mainstay.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector id like to try a headamp. i heard the lounge copla was...transimpedance or asom,ething like that. works different from a typical headamp i hear. is that the case?
@@ceylonmooney -yep. Uses a dial to rotate and choose dB/ohms level. Works pretty good for my Denon and Dynavector carts. The guy’s name is Robert Morrin.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector cool. i got a ned clayton cinemag 1254 and a redboy microtrans. id sure like to try out that copla some time or perhaps one of the darlington labs headamps.
That Denon cartridge or a predecessor was tested in a Dutch buyersguide from 1980 i have, DL103S and the DL103D and their scores were... measurements both 8/9, hearing experience 8/9 and 9, price quality ratio 8 and 7, other well tested cartridges were the Ortofon MC30 and the YamahaMC1S. A lot of mm and mc cartridges of many brands were tested. The mc's the winners.
Hi Derek, you are correct to expect that. I have gone through a lot of gear but the reason is I wanted to learn about stuff I never knew or I read about. I sold the silver Bob’s devices, a DAC and a 1990 era CD player. Bought the following: Audiolab 6000 CD transport, a Denon 103 cartridge, a Shure V15 moving iron cart, a 2008 Sony CD/SACD player ( cheap 5-disc player) to learn about SACDs (hybrid & single-layer SACDs) and a Willsenton R8 integrated tube amplifier that I use as a power amp. Plus a bunch of new and NOS vacuum tubes. As for what I like/prefer or don’t like about the carts. I prefer the low output MC carts over Moving Magnet or Moving Iron. Why? I like the extra detail and soundstage they provide. The Denon 103 and 103r are wonderful sounding MC carts for their price. I wish the cantilevers on the Denons were more rigid/stronger as they can easily break. The Dynavector 20x2L costs 2 1/2 times the 103r, but the presentation and details especially in the mids and highs are more refined. The Shure V15 cart is a bit of a pain in the butt to install and align as it comes with a unique jig. I bought 4-5 NOS Pioneer and Technics head shells so I can preinstall the carts for quicker swapping. In closing, my best sounding cart is the Dynavector 20x2L (strong cantilever too). The 103r is next as it can be detailed and a little bright. PS - everything has changed with the addition of a tube amp that has 4-ohm taps on the back to better match the power requirements for my 4-ohm speakers. All of my other amps are 8-ohm. Tubes provide a more 3D holographic soundstage and much more detail. Curious to see what your gear is like and what cart(s) you use? Best, Virgil
Hi Rudy. I used Sound Smith. sound-smith.com Pick the pop down arrow and scroll all the way down to: “Cartridge Rebuilding / Retipping” Then you will see “Click This For rebuilding all other Cartridges pricing/options table” I chose “Ruby Cantilever / Nude Contact Line Diamond” which about $350 plus shipping and insurance. I think I got mine back in about 4 weeks. Be sure to register on their site! Good luck, Virgil
All cartridges that generate an output voltage use magnets and coils. They usually generate that voltage by either moving magnets through coils of wire, or move the coils through stationary magnets. Either way you have a mass attached to the inside end of the stylus cantilever; the coil has less mass than the magnet which gives moving coils an advantage in groove traceability. However, there IS a third choice -- moving iron. With these cartridges only a small piece of iron is attached to the cantilever. Both magnets and coils are fixed. The wiggling of the iron causes changes in magnetic flux which is picked up by the coils; this is your output signal. Needless to say the mass of this iron is around only 20% of the lowest mass coils out there, giving these cartridges outstanding tracking ability. Their output is actually comparable to medium to low output moving coils ... around 0.4 mV. The disadvantage is cost. But if you're already into moving coils and SUTs, you should look into moving iron. PS: Enjoyed your video .. thanks.
TheCarMan - thank you for your reply to my vid. I did go off the rails and buy a Shure V15 Type V- MR via Ebay that included everything but a stylus. I was able to buy a new stylus from a technician that has serviced some of my gear over the years. It’s a wonderful sounding cart. Might purchase a Grado cart one day. Be well👍👍
I use a few different SUTs, Lundahl LL1941 transformers for Ortofon MC-20s, UTC Ouncer 01/02 transformers for an Ortofon MC-10, and Triad JO-3 transformers for an Ortofon LYS. Only the JO-3 doesn't need output resistors to tailor the higher frequencies. Don't seem to need SUTs with either my Sumiko Evo III HOMC or my SAE 1000LT HOMC cartridges.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector The UTC and Triad are no longer available NOS microphone transformers that work quite well with LOMC's but are sensitive to mag fields even with permalloy shields. Bought the Lundahl's to see if present day manufacturing is less susceptible to mag fields. They exhibit lower noise than the others when encased in Giron magnetic shielding.
Thanks for the video. I use MC step-ups into my MM input instead of using the active MC input. I find that it (the MC-tranformer+MM inout) gives a lot more dynamic and interesting sound and therefor give me much more joy in music listening. BUT I have also tried to optimize. Being not scared of math and spreadsheets I have tried a lot of combinations. Also some that should be avoided, e.g. very high output voltage that should overload your phono input. Spreadsheets calculations and mathematical predictions does not seem to correspond to (my) reality. So I try a lot, listen, and dont give a thought to the math :-) What is your experience?
Me too! I now use a separate/external tube phono preamp that allows 2 phono inputs. I use Phono1 with the Bob’s Devices SUT set to MM. I run TT #2 into Phono2 using a Lounge Copla head amp Love MC carts
You forgot 'ceramic' cartridge - some people think they are great and some people think they are junk - oh wait that's true of all people's opinions of cartridges. Should you spend $20.00 or $20,000.00 or $200,000.00 the discussions and opinions are non-ending. Great video, thanks so much for sharing and posting.
Thanks for watching and subscribing! I have another vid about my first receiver and I had a switch on the back to select “ceramic” cartridge. Lots of opinions out there for this wonderful hobby. Keep spinning!
Hard to say, but I prefer my MC carts. More cost involved but worth the price (more expensive carts, step up transformer SUT). If you break the stylus on an MC cart you’re in trouble. Many thanks for watching!
I have a Denon 103c from the Sound Smith. It has his custom cantilever and fine line stylus. $350 to rebuild when damaged. Using it on a Denon dj table (SL1200) copy through Signet moving coil transformer at 40 Ohms loading. Also own Signet ultra low mass moving coil in need of repair. I would like to retip that.
Great video y used the same Denon cartridge on my technics sl 1700 mk2 and it sound great. I pair it with the project tube box DS. Actually I just post a video. I seen some people using the seatings on MM and using the step up transformer for LOMC. Is that turntable has suspension? Thanks!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector that’s nice👍 is the nice thing about this turntables you can swap carts any time you want. I only have the Denon and ortofon 2m blue so far 😀
I would love to use a mc, my money went in restoring my Thorens TD 160 turntable, new Jelco 550 S tonearm, retipped Grace F9 mm , Ruby Cantilever, Nude hyper elliptical stylus, York phono Stage, tube integrated amp. Sounds not as good as digital music to my .
Hey Joe. Sounds like quite a worthwhile investment. I had a Soundsmith retip for my Denon 103r and it was a good chunk of change. Thanks for watching and best wishes. Keep on spending & spinning!
Hi John, I liked the 10x5 but preferred the 20x2L because it it sounded better as a low output moving coil. Unfortunately they cost more than the high output moving coil. Thanks for watching👍👍
What might be the advantage, if any, to using a SUT between your turntable and amp phono inputs, versus a switchable setting phono pre-amp running to the line inputs?
Sorry for the late response! The Bob’s Devices Sky 40 SUT I have matches well with my Dynavector 20x2L and Denon 103r cartridges as per Bob’s Devices. Again the SUT runs into the Phono input. I have recently thought about purchasing a switchable settings phono preamp as you have suggested such as the Luxman E250 and a bunch of others. Lucky for me by accident I found out that I have both an MM and MC phono stage built into my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. So now instead of using the Phono input on my Luxman preamp I plug it into Analog In on the back of the DAC. Analog Out goes to AUX1 of the Luxman preamp. Quite an improvement in soundstage and clarity. I think the only benefit for the SUT was the matching of the windings to the carts I own, especially the Denon 103r. Thanks to you I will buy a phono preamp in the near term, but do a lot more research as prices can start at $149 (Schitt Mani 2) on up to thousands of dollars.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector I'd be very happy with my Mofi Studiophono, if the power supply wasn't so cheap. My old house has questionable wiring and the power supply seems to pick up a lot of EMI/RFI.
I’ve looked at the Mofi Studiophono. It seems to have good reviews. Do you use a power conditioner in your setup? I use an APC H15 power conditioner. It was reviewed by Audiohics.
Hi Virgil, thank you for the info. So at the moment, I`m using a low output mc cartridge with my Audio Research SP14 preamp phono stage and though it sounds quite nice, I have to raise the volume up quite high. Would this step up transformer add more gain so I don't have to turn the volume up so high and yet not affect or colour the sound of my Audio Research preamp phono stage? Thanks so much!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector ok thank you. It does sound quite nice so I think I will keep things the way they are. The instructions manual explains how resistors can be installed to better fit the prefered mc cart but I really don't want to play around or have anyone play around in there just in case something gets damaged. Thank you for your help. Happy listening. 😊
@@RonRivet - my brother-in-law did the resistor swap and didn’t like it and he raises the volume (gain) like you. I think you are good sticking with your existing set up. Those SUTs might cost more than the value of your preamp.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector thank you Virgil. Your advice is much appreciated and valued and I will leave things exactly as they are and will enjoy the music instead.
I recently got into mc with a low output Sumiko EVO lll , I skipped the SUT by setting up my Pro-Ject tube phono stage to 50 or 63 dB amplification which looks high enough to enjoy much more detailed sound especially when playing classics . Just wonder if an SUT with less amplification can improve anything
Morning David. Sounds like you have it under control with your Pro-Ject phono stage! I doubt a SUT would bring you any improvement. Plus you save a bunch of bucks to be spent on more vinyl. Cheers!
Hi David - I know you're post is a bit dated but I noticed it when I came across Virgil's video - - thought I might share - - in recent times I started messing with an SUT and now I get why the late Art Dudley and others are so into them - - I can only directly comment on my own set up - - I matched the Audio-Technica ART1000 with AT's top shelf SUT, this after running the ART for maybe 1/2 a year directly into my Audio Research ReferencePhono3SE phono preamp - - my take after a week or so of breaking in, and yes, the SUT break in was the most obvious break in of any component I've ever owned, dramatic after about a day and it didn't need to have a record constantly playing, just the SUT tied into the preamp with the preamp actually running - - the best way to describe the difference which probably doesn't have anything to do with what's actually going on, is for me to say that the cartridge now sounds properly and perfectly loaded, like "it's happier" - and as I'm sure you can guess, the ARC PhonoRef3SE is very versatile and gain is not an issue, and of course, yes again, I played around with various loadings prior to the SUT (as I have with all the MC's I've owned) - - don't know if it's because the two are manufactured more or less to match, but sound wise, it's beyond my hopes, way beyond - - I've got another table with the Winfeld Ti and because I'm so impressed with the set-up I've described I'm intending on buying the Ortofon SUT for the Winfeld (regardless that I've read that it may be a bit colored) - - anyway, if you have a chance, you may well want to play with an SUT - - the set up I'm using didn't present a veil like I think you may be suggesting in your comment, it was the opposite - the sound opened up without any hint of glare or etching - delineated detail, sound stage, everything we listen for improved - actually, I could never go back. And yes, this is an eye opener for me as I'm in your school of thought, the less in the signal path the better - I should perhaps mention that I'm running all reference cables so that extra set of cables adds more cost, but the same holds, no way I could go back - - for me personally, it's great new discovery that I've been ignoring forever.
Setting an amplification level is not enough to use an MC cartridge. All MM phono stages use FET transistors at an input stage. They work with a high input resistance only. Let’s say 47kOhms. With an MC cartridge (100Ohms) they generates a lot of noise. It easy can hit a dynamic range of a record. That’s why an MC input stages always use BJ transistors. Thus there must be two separate amplifiers. Or two head-up amplifiers and one RIIA equalization stage. A transformer adds too much of the 3rd harmonic. That’s unavoidable. Ten capacitors in a signal path could be “better” than one transformer
Yes, it will. I used to believe the same thing I had a high end 2 box phono stage and the sound was a little flat I wondered why got a Rothwell step up and the dynamics were back and this was while using 57 db gain on phono stake with a 0.4 output Koetsu rosewood cart. Get one you do not know what you're missing. I use a step-up now Religiously anyone with a mc cart 0.5 and under will gain despite what others tell you most have never used one.
I think it might be what kind of vinyl you’re playing I play just mono from the 50s and 60s In absolute sound back in the day, one of the best reviews was the shure V 15, type five Hasta be what kind of preamp you’re using It’s a synergy thing Now playing stereo is a different world
Swapping gear from time to time. I recently decided to skip buying a mono cart and instead I use two different Y-connectors/adapters hooked together (1 male with 2 female & 1 female to 2 males) and place it between my TT and external tube phono preamp. Sounds pretty darn good! Working on a new video about this project. Hope you’re subscribed so you can be notified. You have a cool name. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
@@timessquarerecordscom1469 - yeah, I have a stereo/mono switch on the phono preamp and I think the Y-connector combo is better than using the mono switch
I recently purchased a vintage Rotel amplifier that has an MC phono stage as well as MM. If I were to connect a turntable with a high output MC, which phono stage would you recommend? Thanks in advance
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector I have an old Pioneer turntable with a HOMC cartridge that has replaceable stylus but it's near impossible to find nowadays. The cartridge sounds great btw
Hey Virgil I also use a low output moving coil and I just put up a video last week called my current vinyl playback system you might want to check it out I enjoyed your video. Bob makes great stuff
Hi Ron, Thanks for watching my vid from 2 years ago and for your comments. I watched your vid as you recommended. You have a real nice set of gear. Your new speakers with the two drivers and tweeter resemble my KEF 104/2 mid range drivers and tweeter and I have two 8-inch woofers inside the cabinet. Within the last 5 weeks I installed a new DIY 3-shelf rack to replace my stereo cabinet. I now have two TTs on the top shelf, both connected to a Sun Valley tube phono stage equalizer with MM and MC stages. I run my VPI TT thru a Bob’s Devices Sky 40 SUT to the MM stage. I have a new Hana Umami Blue MC cart on it. Really great detail! My other TT is a vintage Pioneer PL630 with a Denon 103 MC cart feeding into the MC side of the tube phono stage. The phono stage goes to a Willsenton R8 integrated tube amp via AUX1. I use a separate SS preamp to connect to my Luxman tuner and/or cassette deck (I can swap gear on shelf #2), an Audiolab 6000cd CD transport, and a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and a Bluesound Node for streaming and/or ROON on a Mac Mini M1. I made a video recently on how we (friend/neighbor) built the new rack. The 2nd half of the vid shows some of my gear laid out. Take care Ron!
@@RocknRonni -Hana is a lot better! So much more detail in the highs mids and lows. Much better than my Dynavector 20x2L Has a Boron cantilever and a microline like your Shelter.
I would try searching on US Audio Mart and type in STEP UP TRANSFORMER. Here’s one I found for $300 www.usaudiomart.com/details/649897318-ortofon-st-7-stepup-transformer/
I have two fully modified LO5-M kenwood Monoblocks and a modded e7b sony pre , denon dp 59m. I can run 60k impedence gain or basically any mc cartridge . Do you have any cart recommendations?
Hi Jeremy, you have some very nice gear👍👍 Of the MC carts that I have experience with (Dynavector 10x5 HOMC, 20x2 LOMC, and Denon 103r LOMC), I lean toward the Denon 103r which is about $449 these days. It’s an amazing cart. Depends on your budget and what you are willing to spend as MC carts can be crazy expensive to buy and to retip if you break the cantilever. Good luck!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector Thanks man. I was actually looking at that 103r myself or a karat 23rs dynavector retipped by soundsmith. I have digital marantz and am ready to get rid of all the reliability problems with this Chinese junk and go old school. Badass luxman those sound great. Thanks for the response. I will get that denon , thanks again.
The suspension for the platter has a lot of give (very springy) as they say, so no I don’t believe so. I restored the SL-1800. It’s a very durable table. Take care👍
I think it would depend on your gear (preamp, phonostage, SUT etc.) Here’s a comparison of the 103 and 103r from a reviewer in Audiogon. I may buy the 103 someday because of its reputation. Hope this helps. forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-denon-dl-103r-cartridge
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector thanks virgil. just realized i missed your reply. so far i have purchased a used denon AU-300LC SUT and an ortofon phono box mm phono preamp. my amps are naim 72 + 140 and speakers 15ohm ls35a. still hvent bought any MC cart yet as still awaiting for a good bargain to come, but most likely ill b going for the plain vanilla dl103. i was close to purchasing the dl103lc2 but didnt know if it'll be better than the 103
I have found one problem changing to a moving coil.if you have a steel turntable the magnet is so strong it pulls the cartridge right down so the body makes contact with the record ,I have changed the turntable for a Vinyl one ,problem solved
So what exactly is a step-up transformer? Is it the same thing as a phono preamp designed to run MC carts? (which steps up the voltage) - If so then why are there two names for the same thing. Are they different somehow?
First, thanks for watching. For a lot of types of stereo gear like receivers and preamps they have line stages (for CD, cassette etc.) and a phono stage for turntables. However, not all have a built in phono stage and therefore one would need to buy an external phono preamp so they can have a phono stage to be able to use a turntable. A good majority of phono stages are designed for use with moving magnet phono cartridges designed for 47K ohms. If you intend to use a moving coil cartridge you need to ramp up the output of the cartridge going into the phono stage. Even cranking the volume up real high doesn’t help you get the output and sound you need. This is where a step up transformer comes in to increase the output of the cartridge for the phono stage. Some receivers and preamps have built in selection for both MM and MC cartridges. For my vintage Luxman CL-35 preamp there are two SUT modules plugged into the back, one for the left channel and the other for the right. Here’s an article to help you out. www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/what-is-a-phono-preamp
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector Ok, great,,,, thanks for the explanation! - So I have a phono preamp (external) that does both MM and MC carts. (iFi Phono) So I should be good with my new Denon DL 103 I just ordered, right? - I thought a "step-up" was something above and beyond having MC capability already on my preamp.
@@rlwings - Hi Randy. You’re good to go! You have a good brand too. I just bought a Denon 103 a month ago. Nice cart👍👍 Hope you subscribe as I will be putting out a new vid for a Music Room update.
I don't know why you would make a video like this and not discuss the performance of the various equipment shown. Was it worth it to upgrade to the $1500 SUT?? How do the two cartridges compare??
Hey Daniel, thanks for watching and for your comments, both valid. The Dynavector 20x2 is a better sounding cart. Better highs, lows and more detail too. It wasn’t too long afterwards I broke the cantilever when the tone arm went sideways. I sent it off to Soundsmith for a retipping and better cantilever. I sold the Bob’s Devices 3440A SUT after getting the Sky 40. I sold it to a guy named Rex who was happy to get it. Turns out he showed up in a Stereophile video and article for Michael Fremer’s clean power upgrade to his house. Rex was one of two consultants. That SUT I believe had ratios of 1:9 and 1:16 which were fine, but the Sky 40 has 1:20 and 1:40 ratios better suited to my two carts. The proprietary winding process Bob has CineMag do for him is an improvement. The old SUT was a little dull sounding. Was the Sky 40 price of $1325 worth it? Absolutely! I now use it with an external tube phono preamp made by Sunvalley in Japan. Herb Reichert from Stereophile uses a Sky 20 with his. I bought a Denon 103 cart but more recently I use a Hana Umami Blue LOMC. It’s to die for. Be well and Happy New Year!
@Virgil: I was a little disappointed by your video - you did not really explain what you are getting in terms of sonic benefits by using moving-coil cartridges, other than to say “it sounds wonderful” - the Staton 681 MM/MI you show is one of the best most coveted MM/MI there was, and it has attributes that exceed many moving-coil cartridges. If you want a surprise, try a used Shure V15V-MRx body with a new Jico SAS VN35 - feed this into a RJM Emerald (with 300pF+100kohm loading) diy phono preamp, and *then* compare the relative sonic merits of moving-coils vs MM and the price-performance aspects - that would be a “non-oatmeal” video that I would like to see.
Hey Charles. I hear ya! The 681 is a moving iron cart. The KAB needle was a little too bright. I got a NOS stereohedron stylus and it’s much better in the bass & mids. I compare it to my Dynavector 10x5 HOMC. I had a Jico stylus for the 681eee but sold it years ago thinking my Pioneer TT was unrepairable. I won’t need to buy an MM cart, very happy with the 681. Hope to get an new integrated amp so I can load to 100 ohm like you. Thanks for your feedback👍👍
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector The 100k ohm loading would be specific to the Shure to tame the upper frequency bump, but I am not sure it would benefit your Stanton. 100 ohm loading would be suitable for your MC cartridges.
The frequency response of the MC cartridges don't seem to be any greater than the MM cartridges - both seem to be from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, the full range of excellent human hearing. Obviously both of those are considerably better sounding than the horrible ceramic cartridges.
Hi John, thanks for watching. I have a switch on the back of my Superscope R310 receiver for MM and ceramic cartridges. Lucky for me I’ve never owned/heard a ceramic cart👍👍
I bought my first SUT in 1977 - a Mitchell Cotter Verion P for $375. Kept it in use for 20+ years. The first LOMC I had was the GAS Sleeping Beauty/Coral B777 with elliptical stylus.
Another great video thank you buddy.
Thank your Jerry!
I tried a MC back in the late 1980s and never looked back. I have never used a transformer with my MC cartridges. I used a Threshold M1 impedance matcher for 30 years. I have had Denon 300, 103 D, and sumiko blue point 3 low output nude cartridges. I bent the stylus on the 300, the 103D is a backup now. The Sumiko is on a VPI cliftwood and I use a Jolida JD 9 tube output head amp. I absolutelly Love this combination and plan to hot rod the JD9. Its very quiet between tracks on custom, Klipsch Belle speakers.
Sounds like you’ve been at this for quite some time and having fun! I recently bought a Lounge Audio Copla head amp for my Pioneer TT & Denon 103 connected to a Sunvalley tube phono stage. I use the VPI TT with the Bob’s Devices SUT into the Sunvalley with a Hana MC cart. I’ll check out those Klipsch Belle speakers. Thanks for responding and keep on spinning!
I alas sold the Cotter some years ago. Now I have a Bellari, a Mike Sanders Quicksilver and two custom-made SUT's using mike transformers. And I am back to using the Coral B777 cartridge, among others in my collection - Denon 103, 103R, 160, 304 and Dynavector 10A plus the Ruby.
A very nice selection of cartridges! About six months ago I acquired a Hana Umami Blue MC cart. With my new DIY stereo rack I’m able to have two turntables. I use the Bob’s devices Sky 40 SUT with the Hana cart going into a Sunvalley tube phono preamp. It handles both MM and MC carts. I also bought a Lounge Copla head amp also feeding into the MM of the Sunvalley. For fun, I pulled out my Stanton 681eee MM cart. Sounds very nice. So what kind of music do you enjoy most? My favorite is jazz.
Add the Denon 103D and 301, plus a Supex 500 needing a new stylus to my collection of MC's.
Thanks a lot Virgil
In 1976, I bought a high end audio system, spending a total of between $6000.00 -$7000.00 on it. I loved the system but something just didn't seem right; it seemed that it just wasn't reaching it's full potential. A month or so after buying the system, I read an article in Audio magazine (by the late, great Bert Whyte) on moving coil cartridges. In my system, I was using a Shure V15, type III. I'm not sure if Bert Whyte specifically mentioned the cartridge that I then replaced the V15, type III with, but I purchased a moving coil cartridge, the Supex SD-900 super, with it's small step up transformer. I also used the Infinity "Black Widow" tonearm.
I cannot adequately express the difference that this change made in the system. My wife at the time, who was not an audiophile, said simply "That's incredible!" referring to the difference. Interesting how one apparently small change made such a profound difference.
We used to drive into Tower Records, in Hollywood, to buy the latest Japanese pressings of releases that we liked. There was quite a difference in the quality of those releases as opposed to the ones made in this country.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! About a year ago I found a used Shure V15 VMR with no stylus. Found a NOS stylus thanks to my tech having one on stock. Great cart too.
I’ve only lived in SoCal since the late 80s, but I do remember Tower Records. I need to look up that Super SD-900. Thanks again for watching👍👍
I have a ClearAudio/ Marantz turn table, it came with Virtuoso wood MM cartridge, I just sold the cartridge on eBay and got me Blue Ortofon MM, so far I'm a happy camper cause my turntable cost me now a mere $500.00. One day, when I have enough money to experiment with, I'll get the Sumiko Songbird and see what's the fuss is all about.
Very good video Virgil. I subscribed! I ran across your video by researching into what the heck was moving coils/moving magnets phono needles as I am about to buy a turntable to give it another try to my old vinyls collection. My self-Christmas gift was a audio set up with Wharfsdale bookshelf speakers (including a center channel for the TV enjoyment, although I am more into music listening than movies watching) and a Yamaha RX-A2A receiver. As I kept digging I got into the audio hobby vice and all of a sudden I found myself researching into what is best between music streaming vs. CDs vs. old-fashioned vinyls, and learning about these fancy high-end music streamers (I was all into phones/smart TVs-enabled streaming applications) that I didn't even know they existed. And now, deciding in a good turntable, either it is direct-drive or belt driven or the kind of stylus.
Thanks for the nice comment and for subscribing! I will post some new videos later this month. Building a double-wide stereo rack and hope to post a video of that too.
Happy New Year Aldo
When I got back into TTs back in the mid-2000s I had an MC on an Technics SL-10 that I bought while stationed in Germany. It died and I bought an Audio-Technica AT-LP120 (bad mistake) and was using the AT440MLa MM cart. Later learned it was giving me headaches from being too bright (noise exhaustion). I wanted to get back into the MC scene as I had before and researched and listened to more than a few needle drops here on YT and liked the Ortofon MC-3 Turbo. It's a HOMC that has excellent sound. I later bought a Nagaoka MP-150 and then the Denon DL-103r. I have three TTs in my house. I have a Pioneer PL-7 in my living room's 5.1 system connected to an ART DJ PREE II Phono Preamp. My other two TTs are my Rega Planar 2 that I use to digitize my album collection with the DL-103r through a Schiit Mani preamp. My 2nd main TT is a Technics SL-Q2 that I also use through a Schiit Mani. I use the Schiit SYS as a switch between the Rega and Technics. I also use the same Blue Jean cables on my TTs. I did look at Bob's Devices, but they are way too expensive for my budget. Thanks for the video!
Hi George,
Thanks for watching. I subscribed to your channel and watched some of your vids including your room tour, your Pickering XV-15 and a Pioneer TT restoration.
Have you tried streaming music via Spotify, Tidal etc. through your system?
How about a new room tour video?
Blue Jeans cables are such a bargain and well built. Great for gear swapping too. Yes, the SUTs from Bob’s Devices are a little steep in terms of price. Keep on spinning!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector I've been streaming with Qobuz for almost 2 years now and I love the variety and the Hi-Res quality. Since I really can't afford to buy and LPs right now I stream quite a bit in between spinning vinyl! I currently have both of my TTs on one hanging platform. Maybe when I get some time I'll update with a video of my current setup that's been my mainstay.
bobs devices, thats the man of SUTs. then you got ned clayton and redboy. thats the big three of SUT.
Thank goodness for Bob! I also bought a Lounge Copla head amp recently
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector id like to try a headamp. i heard the lounge copla was...transimpedance or asom,ething like that. works different from a typical headamp i hear. is that the case?
@@ceylonmooney -yep. Uses a dial to rotate and choose dB/ohms level. Works pretty good for my Denon and Dynavector carts. The guy’s name is Robert Morrin.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector cool. i got a ned clayton cinemag 1254 and a redboy microtrans. id sure like to try out that copla some time or perhaps one of the darlington labs headamps.
That Denon cartridge or a predecessor was tested in a Dutch buyersguide from 1980 i have, DL103S and the DL103D and their scores were... measurements both 8/9, hearing experience 8/9 and 9, price quality ratio 8 and 7, other well tested cartridges were the Ortofon MC30 and the YamahaMC1S. A lot of mm and mc cartridges of many brands were tested. The mc's the winners.
I was hoping you were going to mention what you liked or didn’t like about each cartridge. You sure go through a lot of gear. 👍
Hi Derek, you are correct to expect that. I have gone through a lot of gear but the reason is I wanted to learn about stuff I never knew or I read about. I sold the silver Bob’s devices, a DAC and a 1990 era CD player. Bought the following: Audiolab 6000 CD transport, a Denon 103 cartridge, a Shure V15 moving iron cart, a 2008 Sony CD/SACD player ( cheap 5-disc player) to learn about SACDs (hybrid & single-layer SACDs) and a Willsenton R8 integrated tube amplifier that I use as a power amp. Plus a bunch of new and NOS vacuum tubes.
As for what I like/prefer or don’t like about the carts. I prefer the low output MC carts over Moving Magnet or Moving Iron. Why? I like the extra detail and soundstage they provide. The Denon 103 and 103r are wonderful sounding MC carts for their price. I wish the cantilevers on the Denons were more rigid/stronger as they can easily break. The Dynavector 20x2L costs 2 1/2 times the 103r, but the presentation and details especially in the mids and highs are more refined. The Shure V15 cart is a bit of a pain in the butt to install and align as it comes with a unique jig. I bought 4-5 NOS Pioneer and Technics head shells so I can preinstall the carts for quicker swapping. In closing, my best sounding cart is the Dynavector 20x2L (strong cantilever too). The 103r is next as it can be detailed and a little bright.
PS - everything has changed with the addition of a tube amp that has 4-ohm taps on the back to better match the power requirements for my 4-ohm speakers. All of my other amps are 8-ohm. Tubes provide a more 3D holographic soundstage and much more detail. Curious to see what your gear is like and what cart(s) you use?
Best,
Virgil
I like your video. Can you kindly inform the viewers which cartridge you preferred the most?
Hi John,
I prefer the Denon 103r LOMC for now👍👍😀😀
Moving coil all the way!!
Amen on that point! Thanks for chiming in Dean👍👍
Audio technica AT0C9XML on my Rega RB330 tonearm fitted to my Technics SL1210 MK2.
Bob's SUTs are now well over $1000!!
Yep, I think around $1375😳 Ouch
Too expensive for what they are@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector
@@cobar5342probably because they get lumped in with all the super expensive mc cartridges. It’s audiophile pricing
If you are pursuing hifi then Bob’s Devices are very reasonable
If you just want to pursue basic playback, then yah Bob’s SUTs are not for you.
Hi Virgil, thx for the very informative video. Just one question, where you retiped Denon DL-103R?
Regards Rudy
Hi Rudy. I used Sound Smith.
sound-smith.com
Pick the pop down arrow and scroll all the way down to: “Cartridge Rebuilding / Retipping”
Then you will see “Click This For rebuilding all other Cartridges pricing/options table”
I chose “Ruby Cantilever / Nude Contact Line Diamond” which about $350 plus shipping and insurance. I think I got mine back in about 4 weeks.
Be sure to register on their site!
Good luck,
Virgil
All cartridges that generate an output voltage use magnets and coils. They usually generate that voltage by either moving magnets through coils of wire, or move the coils through stationary magnets. Either way you have a mass attached to the inside end of the stylus cantilever; the coil has less mass than the magnet which gives moving coils an advantage in groove traceability. However, there IS a third choice -- moving iron. With these cartridges only a small piece of iron is attached to the cantilever. Both magnets and coils are fixed. The wiggling of the iron causes changes in magnetic flux which is picked up by the coils; this is your output signal. Needless to say the mass of this iron is around only 20% of the lowest mass coils out there, giving these cartridges outstanding tracking ability. Their output is actually comparable to medium to low output moving coils ... around 0.4 mV. The disadvantage is cost. But if you're already into moving coils and SUTs, you should look into moving iron.
PS: Enjoyed your video .. thanks.
TheCarMan - thank you for your reply to my vid. I did go off the rails and buy a Shure V15 Type V- MR via Ebay that included everything but a stylus. I was able to buy a new stylus from a technician that has serviced some of my gear over the years. It’s a wonderful sounding cart. Might purchase a Grado cart one day. Be well👍👍
Those bobsdevices SUTs are extraordinarily expensive
They sure are expensive.👍
I use a few different SUTs, Lundahl LL1941 transformers for Ortofon MC-20s, UTC Ouncer 01/02 transformers for an Ortofon MC-10, and Triad JO-3 transformers for an Ortofon LYS. Only the JO-3 doesn't need output resistors to tailor the higher frequencies. Don't seem to need SUTs with either my Sumiko Evo III HOMC or my SAE 1000LT HOMC cartridges.
Wow, quite a variety of transformers! I am aware of the Lundahl brand but not the others. I learned something new today. Thanks for sharing👍👍
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector The UTC and Triad are no longer available NOS microphone transformers that work quite well with LOMC's but are sensitive to mag fields even with permalloy shields. Bought the Lundahl's to see if present day manufacturing is less susceptible to mag fields. They exhibit lower noise than the others when encased in Giron magnetic shielding.
Thanks for the video. I use MC step-ups into my MM input instead of using the active MC input. I find that it (the MC-tranformer+MM inout) gives a lot more dynamic and interesting sound and therefor give me much more joy in music listening. BUT I have also tried to optimize. Being not scared of math and spreadsheets I have tried a lot of combinations. Also some that should be avoided, e.g. very high output voltage that should overload your phono input. Spreadsheets calculations and mathematical predictions does not seem to correspond to (my) reality. So I try a lot, listen, and dont give a thought to the math :-) What is your experience?
Me too! I now use a separate/external tube phono preamp that allows 2 phono inputs. I use Phono1 with the Bob’s Devices SUT set to MM. I run TT #2 into Phono2 using a Lounge Copla head amp
Love MC carts
You forgot 'ceramic' cartridge - some people think they are great and some people think they are junk - oh wait that's true of all people's opinions of cartridges. Should you spend $20.00 or $20,000.00 or $200,000.00 the discussions and opinions are non-ending. Great video, thanks so much for sharing and posting.
Thanks for watching and subscribing! I have another vid about my first receiver and I had a switch on the back to select “ceramic” cartridge. Lots of opinions out there for this wonderful hobby. Keep spinning!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector Check out:
ua-cam.com/video/L2QfjcgDjsY/v-deo.html
7 tips on playing lp
I have the 681EEE on my Thorens:)
How do your new MC carts compare?
Hard to say, but I prefer my MC carts. More cost involved but worth the price (more expensive carts, step up transformer SUT). If you break the stylus on an MC cart you’re in trouble.
Many thanks for watching!
I have a Denon 103c from the Sound Smith. It has his custom cantilever and fine line stylus.
$350 to rebuild when damaged.
Using it on a Denon dj table (SL1200) copy through Signet moving coil transformer at 40 Ohms loading.
Also own Signet ultra low mass moving coil in need of repair.
I would like to retip that.
Hope it goes well with the retip! Thanks for sharing👍👍
Great video y used the same Denon cartridge on my technics sl 1700 mk2 and it sound great. I pair it with the project tube box DS.
Actually I just post a video.
I seen some people using the seatings on MM and using the step up transformer for LOMC.
Is that turntable has suspension?
Thanks!
Thanks for your nice comments. Yes, the turntable has a good suspension.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector that’s nice, the suspension helps a lot.
Have you used the blue point 2? I’m looking for that one too.
@@theredon2 - I haven’t considered that cartridge. I have 4 carts already😀
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector that’s nice👍 is the nice thing about this turntables you can swap carts any time you want. I only have the Denon and ortofon 2m blue so far 😀
I would love to use a mc, my money went in restoring my Thorens TD 160 turntable, new Jelco 550 S tonearm, retipped Grace F9 mm , Ruby Cantilever, Nude hyper elliptical stylus, York phono Stage, tube integrated amp. Sounds not as good as digital music to my .
Hey Joe. Sounds like quite a worthwhile investment. I had a Soundsmith retip for my Denon 103r and it was a good chunk of change. Thanks for watching and best wishes. Keep on spending & spinning!
You liked the 10X2 but did you prefer the more expensive 20X2L over it?
Hi John,
I liked the 10x5 but preferred the 20x2L because it it sounded better as a low output moving coil. Unfortunately they cost more than the high output moving coil. Thanks for watching👍👍
What might be the advantage, if any, to using a SUT between your turntable and amp phono inputs, versus a switchable setting phono pre-amp running to the line inputs?
Sorry for the late response! The Bob’s Devices Sky 40 SUT I have matches well with my Dynavector 20x2L and Denon 103r cartridges as per Bob’s Devices. Again the SUT runs into the Phono input. I have recently thought about purchasing a switchable settings phono preamp as you have suggested such as the Luxman E250 and a bunch of others.
Lucky for me by accident I found out that I have both an MM and MC phono stage built into my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. So now instead of using the Phono input on my Luxman preamp I plug it into Analog In on the back of the DAC. Analog Out goes to AUX1 of the Luxman preamp. Quite an improvement in soundstage and clarity.
I think the only benefit for the SUT was the matching of the windings to the carts I own, especially the Denon 103r.
Thanks to you I will buy a phono preamp in the near term, but do a lot more research as prices can start at $149 (Schitt Mani 2) on up to thousands of dollars.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector I'd be very happy with my Mofi Studiophono, if the power supply wasn't so cheap. My old house has questionable wiring and the power supply seems to pick up a lot of EMI/RFI.
I’ve looked at the Mofi Studiophono. It seems to have good reviews. Do you use a power conditioner in your setup? I use an APC H15 power conditioner. It was reviewed by Audiohics.
Hi Virgil, thank you for the info. So at the moment, I`m using a low output mc cartridge with my Audio Research SP14 preamp phono stage and though it sounds quite nice, I have to raise the volume up quite high. Would this step up transformer add more gain so I don't have to turn the volume up so high and yet not affect or colour the sound of my Audio Research preamp phono stage? Thanks so much!
Hi Ron,
Maybe not. My brother-in-law has an Audio Research pre (maybe SP 12, not sure) and we tried the my SUT and no luck.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector ok thank you. It does sound quite nice so I think I will keep things the way they are. The instructions manual explains how resistors can be installed to better fit the prefered mc cart but I really don't want to play around or have anyone play around in there just in case something gets damaged. Thank you for your help. Happy listening. 😊
@@RonRivet - my brother-in-law did the resistor swap and didn’t like it and he raises the volume (gain) like you. I think you are good sticking
with your existing set up. Those SUTs might cost more than the value of your preamp.
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector thank you Virgil. Your advice is much appreciated and valued and I will leave things exactly as they are and will enjoy the music instead.
In one word YES
I recently got into mc with a low output Sumiko EVO lll , I skipped the SUT by setting up my Pro-Ject tube phono stage to 50 or 63 dB amplification which looks high enough to enjoy much more detailed sound especially when playing classics . Just wonder if an SUT with less amplification can improve anything
Morning David. Sounds like you have it under control with your Pro-Ject phono stage! I doubt a SUT would bring you any improvement. Plus you save a bunch of bucks to be spent on more vinyl. Cheers!
Hi David - I know you're post is a bit dated but I noticed it when I came across Virgil's video - - thought I might share - - in recent times I started messing with an SUT and now I get why the late Art Dudley and others are so into them - - I can only directly comment on my own set up - - I matched the Audio-Technica ART1000 with AT's top shelf SUT, this after running the ART for maybe 1/2 a year directly into my Audio Research ReferencePhono3SE phono preamp - - my take after a week or so of breaking in, and yes, the SUT break in was the most obvious break in of any component I've ever owned, dramatic after about a day and it didn't need to have a record constantly playing, just the SUT tied into the preamp with the preamp actually running - - the best way to describe the difference which probably doesn't have anything to do with what's actually going on, is for me to say that the cartridge now sounds properly and perfectly loaded, like "it's happier" - and as I'm sure you can guess, the ARC PhonoRef3SE is very versatile and gain is not an issue, and of course, yes again, I played around with various loadings prior to the SUT (as I have with all the MC's I've owned) - - don't know if it's because the two are manufactured more or less to match, but sound wise, it's beyond my hopes, way beyond - - I've got another table with the Winfeld Ti and because I'm so impressed with the set-up I've described I'm intending on buying the Ortofon SUT for the Winfeld (regardless that I've read that it may be a bit colored) - - anyway, if you have a chance, you may well want to play with an SUT - - the set up I'm using didn't present a veil like I think you may be suggesting in your comment, it was the opposite - the sound opened up without any hint of glare or etching - delineated detail, sound stage, everything we listen for improved - actually, I could never go back. And yes, this is an eye opener for me as I'm in your school of thought, the less in the signal path the better - I should perhaps mention that I'm running all reference cables so that extra set of cables adds more cost, but the same holds, no way I could go back - - for me personally, it's great new discovery that I've been ignoring forever.
Setting an amplification level is not enough to use an MC cartridge. All MM phono stages use FET transistors at an input stage. They work with a high input resistance only. Let’s say 47kOhms. With an MC cartridge (100Ohms) they generates a lot of noise. It easy can hit a dynamic range of a record. That’s why an MC input stages always use BJ transistors. Thus there must be two separate amplifiers. Or two head-up amplifiers and one RIIA equalization stage.
A transformer adds too much of the 3rd harmonic. That’s unavoidable. Ten capacitors in a signal path could be “better” than one transformer
@@sc0or thanks
The pro ject tube box uses only tubes (2stages) for the amplification. As much as I can judge the results are ok
Yes, it will. I used to believe the same thing I had a high end 2 box phono stage and the sound was a little flat I wondered why got a Rothwell step up and the dynamics were back and this was while using 57 db gain on phono stake with a 0.4 output Koetsu rosewood cart. Get one you do not know what you're missing. I use a step-up now Religiously anyone with a mc cart 0.5 and under will gain despite what others tell you most have never used one.
I think it might be what kind of vinyl you’re playing I play just mono from the 50s and 60s
In absolute sound back in the day, one of the best reviews was the shure V 15, type five
Hasta be what kind of preamp you’re using
It’s a synergy thing
Now playing stereo is a different world
Swapping gear from time to time. I recently decided to skip buying a mono cart and instead I use two different Y-connectors/adapters hooked together (1 male with 2 female & 1 female to 2 males) and place it between my TT and external tube phono preamp. Sounds pretty darn good! Working on a new video about this project. Hope you’re subscribed so you can be notified. You have a cool name. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
I i’ve done that, and it really works good
Better than the minor switches
@@timessquarerecordscom1469 - yeah, I have a stereo/mono switch on the phono preamp and I think the Y-connector combo is better than using the mono switch
I recently purchased a vintage Rotel amplifier that has an MC phono stage as well as MM. If I were to connect a turntable with a high output MC, which phono stage would you recommend? Thanks in advance
Hi Hugh. I would use the MM phono stage if it’s an HOMC cartridge. Which brand/model cartridge do you have?
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector I have an old Pioneer turntable with a HOMC cartridge that has replaceable stylus but it's near impossible to find nowadays. The cartridge sounds great btw
@@hughbetcha436 That’s something new to me! I’m waiting for repairs to be done on my Pioneer PL-630 TT. Good luck finding that stylus🤞
Hey Virgil I also use a low output moving coil and I just put up a video last week called my current vinyl playback system you might want to check it out I enjoyed your video.
Bob makes great stuff
Hi Ron,
Thanks for watching my vid from 2 years ago and for your comments. I watched your vid as you recommended. You have a real nice set of gear. Your new speakers with the two drivers and tweeter resemble my KEF 104/2 mid range drivers and tweeter and I have two 8-inch woofers inside the cabinet.
Within the last 5 weeks I installed a new DIY 3-shelf rack to replace my stereo cabinet. I now have two TTs on the top shelf, both connected to a Sun Valley tube phono stage equalizer with MM and MC stages. I run my VPI TT thru a Bob’s Devices Sky 40 SUT to the MM stage. I have a new Hana Umami Blue MC cart on it. Really great detail! My other TT is a vintage Pioneer PL630 with a Denon 103 MC cart feeding into the MC side of the tube phono stage. The phono stage goes to a Willsenton R8 integrated tube amp via AUX1.
I use a separate SS preamp to connect to my Luxman tuner and/or cassette deck (I can swap gear on shelf #2), an Audiolab 6000cd CD transport, and a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and a Bluesound Node for streaming and/or ROON on a Mac Mini M1.
I made a video recently on how we (friend/neighbor) built the new rack. The 2nd half of the vid shows some of my gear laid out.
Take care Ron!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector how do you like the Hana versus the Denon?
@@RocknRonni -Hana is a lot better! So much more detail in the highs mids and lows. Much better than my Dynavector 20x2L
Has a Boron cantilever and a microline like your Shelter.
Thank you for making this too us. Do you know of a more budget friendly stepup trans? Worth buying?
I would try searching on US Audio Mart and type in STEP UP TRANSFORMER.
Here’s one I found for $300
www.usaudiomart.com/details/649897318-ortofon-st-7-stepup-transformer/
Another site is HIFI Shark
www.hifishark.com/search?q=step+up+transformer
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector i bet the audio Transformer has a warm sound to it
@@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135 - it does.
I have two fully modified LO5-M kenwood Monoblocks and a modded e7b sony pre , denon dp 59m. I can run 60k impedence gain or basically any mc cartridge . Do you have any cart recommendations?
Hi Jeremy, you have some very nice gear👍👍
Of the MC carts that I have experience with (Dynavector 10x5 HOMC, 20x2 LOMC, and Denon 103r LOMC), I lean toward the Denon 103r which is about $449 these days. It’s an amazing cart. Depends on your budget and what you are willing to spend as MC carts can be crazy expensive to buy and to retip if you break the cantilever. Good luck!
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector
Thanks man. I was actually looking at that 103r myself or a karat 23rs dynavector retipped by soundsmith.
I have digital marantz and am ready to get rid of all the reliability problems with this Chinese junk and go old school.
Badass luxman those sound great.
Thanks for the response. I will get that denon , thanks again.
@@jeremywhittler8591 good for you! Keep me posted on the 103r👍👍
Were you rotating the platter while appling undue downward force😢
The suspension for the platter has a lot of give (very springy) as they say, so no I don’t believe so. I restored the SL-1800. It’s a very durable table. Take care👍
does the 103r sound warm? heard its brighter sounding than the reg 103
I think it would depend on your gear (preamp, phonostage, SUT etc.)
Here’s a comparison of the 103 and 103r from a reviewer in Audiogon. I may buy the 103 someday because of its reputation.
Hope this helps.
forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-denon-dl-103r-cartridge
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector thanks virgil. just realized i missed your reply. so far i have purchased a used denon AU-300LC SUT and an ortofon phono box mm phono preamp. my amps are naim 72 + 140 and speakers 15ohm ls35a. still hvent bought any MC cart yet as still awaiting for a good bargain to come, but most likely ill b going for the plain vanilla dl103. i was close to purchasing the dl103lc2 but didnt know if it'll be better than the 103
I have found one problem changing to a moving coil.if you have a steel turntable the magnet is so strong it pulls the cartridge right down so the body makes contact with the record ,I have changed the turntable for a Vinyl one ,problem solved
Now that’s an interesting situation I’ve never heard of. Thanks for sharing!
So what exactly is a step-up transformer? Is it the same thing as a phono preamp designed to run MC carts? (which steps up the voltage) - If so then why are there two names for the same thing. Are they different somehow?
First, thanks for watching. For a lot of types of stereo gear like receivers and preamps they have line stages (for CD, cassette etc.) and a phono stage for turntables. However, not all have a built in phono stage and therefore one would need to buy an external phono preamp so they can have a phono stage to be able to use a turntable. A good majority of phono stages are designed for use with moving magnet phono cartridges designed for 47K ohms. If you intend to use a moving coil cartridge you need to ramp up the output of the cartridge going into the phono stage. Even cranking the volume up real high doesn’t help you get the output and sound you need. This is where a step up transformer comes in to increase the output of the cartridge for the phono stage. Some receivers and preamps have built in selection for both MM and MC cartridges. For my vintage Luxman CL-35 preamp there are two SUT modules plugged into the back, one for the left channel and the other for the right.
Here’s an article to help you out.
www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/what-is-a-phono-preamp
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector Ok, great,,,, thanks for the explanation! - So I have a phono preamp (external) that does both MM and MC carts. (iFi Phono) So I should be good with my new Denon DL 103 I just ordered, right? - I thought a "step-up" was something above and beyond having MC capability already on my preamp.
@@rlwings - Hi Randy. You’re good to go! You have a good brand too. I just bought a Denon 103 a month ago. Nice cart👍👍 Hope you subscribe as I will be putting out a new vid for a Music Room update.
I don't know why you would make a video like this and not discuss the performance of the various equipment shown. Was it worth it to upgrade to the $1500 SUT?? How do the two cartridges compare??
Hey Daniel, thanks for watching and for your comments, both valid. The Dynavector 20x2 is a better sounding cart. Better highs, lows and more detail too. It wasn’t too long afterwards I broke the cantilever when the tone arm went sideways. I sent it off to Soundsmith for a retipping and better cantilever.
I sold the Bob’s Devices 3440A SUT after getting the Sky 40. I sold it to a guy named Rex who was happy to get it. Turns out he showed up in a Stereophile video and article for Michael Fremer’s clean power upgrade to his house. Rex was one of two consultants.
That SUT I believe had ratios of 1:9 and 1:16 which were fine, but the Sky 40 has 1:20 and 1:40 ratios better suited to my two carts. The proprietary winding process Bob has CineMag do for him is an improvement. The old SUT was a little dull sounding. Was the Sky 40 price of $1325 worth it? Absolutely! I now use it with an external tube phono preamp made by Sunvalley in Japan. Herb Reichert from Stereophile uses a Sky 20 with his. I bought a Denon 103 cart but more recently I use a Hana Umami Blue LOMC. It’s to die for. Be well and Happy New Year!
The old tables and pre amps arent bad either: ua-cam.com/video/UMYPjx47V4I/v-deo.html
@Virgil: I was a little disappointed by your video - you did not really explain what you are getting in terms of sonic benefits by using moving-coil cartridges, other than to say “it sounds wonderful” - the Staton 681 MM/MI you show is one of the best most coveted MM/MI there was, and it has attributes that exceed many moving-coil cartridges. If you want a surprise, try a used Shure V15V-MRx body with a new Jico SAS VN35 - feed this into a RJM Emerald (with 300pF+100kohm loading) diy phono preamp, and *then* compare the relative sonic merits of moving-coils vs MM and the price-performance aspects - that would be a “non-oatmeal” video that I would like to see.
Hey Charles. I hear ya! The 681 is a moving iron cart. The KAB needle was a little too bright. I got a NOS stereohedron stylus and it’s much better in the bass & mids. I compare it to
my Dynavector 10x5 HOMC. I had a Jico stylus for the 681eee but sold it years ago thinking my Pioneer TT was unrepairable.
I won’t need to buy an MM cart, very happy with the 681.
Hope to get an new integrated amp so I can load to 100 ohm like you. Thanks for your feedback👍👍
@@VintageLuxmanStereoCollector The 100k ohm loading would be specific to the Shure to tame the upper frequency bump, but I am not sure it would benefit your Stanton. 100 ohm loading would be suitable for your MC cartridges.
@@CharlesPort I was thinking about my MC carts. Be well.
The frequency response of the MC cartridges don't seem to be any greater than the MM cartridges - both seem to be from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, the full range of excellent human hearing. Obviously both of those are considerably better sounding than the horrible ceramic cartridges.
Hi John, thanks for watching. I have a switch on the back of my Superscope R310 receiver for MM and ceramic cartridges. Lucky for me I’ve never owned/heard a ceramic cart👍👍
I heard bamboo or a toothpick work, too. 🤦♀️
You need to do more reeding, you find mc from 6-40khz+ if you dont hear it you feel it.
Your turntable deserves more respect than having you using it to showcase your SUTs.
I have another video all about the Technics SL1800 that I brought back to life.
ua-cam.com/video/WlEOTmczTrk/v-deo.html
Sit down
“… then I started reading about …” - that there be something very dangerous for your wallet, be careful!
That’s half the fun. I’ve worked for many years to be able to afford enjoying this somewhat costly hobby😀😀