Do You Have to be Catholic to be Saved? W/ Trent Horn
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- Опубліковано 21 січ 2020
- I talk with Trent about the available Church teaching on salvation without baptism, and why its definitely still a good idea to evangelize non-Catholics.
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I'm a protestant, who have been exposed to Catholic apologetics, and now doubt protestantism. Prayers are appreciated.
@@Hello-ro8fq :
And we pray for you also!
@@Hello-ro8fq So it`s not possible to be catholic and a Christian?
@@Hello-ro8fq Why?
@@Hello-ro8fq How?
Join the club
Former Atheist here. Im so grateful that I came to know the Lord and he revealed himself to me. I just started my journey, but already know I can skip protestantism. Really appreciate your work and Glory to our beloved Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
God bless you from a Catholic revert (almost 7 years now)!! Glory to Jesus Christ!
You know nothing John Snow!
@@crobeastness Wow, if you think Islam makes more sense than Protestantism, you have not thought much about either!!
@@crobeastness First of all you are mistaken about Islam. Nowhere in the Koran does it say that Jews and Christians corrupted the bible. In fact, the Koran affirms the "people of the book" and that if Muslims have any doubts about their own faith they should check it against the Torah and the Gospel. The idea that Christians corrupted the Gospel comes much later in Islam. Also, the idea that Muhammad actually received anything that is revelatory is solely based on his word alone. No one saw him in the cave with Gabriel. There are no witnesses. Like Joseph Smith, we have nothing but Muhammad's word to trust in for what he claims. Then there is the problem of the Uthmanic destruction of many thousands of manuscripts or the lost Koranic material that Hadiths admit was lost because the people who allegedly had memorized them were killed in battle. Indeed you have much to learn about Islam. I would recommend Acts17 Apologetics with David Wood to learn what Islam actually teaches. You are incorrect in your assumptions.
Secondly, you have much to learn about Protestantism. We DO NOT believe that scripture is only divine, but that scripture is God-Breathed through man. Therefore it is a product of God produced through man. It is both human and divine. Your view of how we view history is skewed as well. We do not believe that Christian history lost the true Gospel for a thousand years. We are NOT restorationists like the Mormons or JWs. We believe in reformation, and that Rome was the church, in need of reform, right up until she apostatized the Gospel at the Council of Trent, which occurred after the Reformation.
Thirdly, Protestants have NOT removed anything to the Canon of scripture. It was Rome that ADDED the Apocrypha to their Canon again at the council of Trent in response to Reformers who rejected as authoritative books that even the Jews never saw as God's Word. The Reformation simply agreed with the Jewish orthodoxy on the OT canon. In response, Rome canonized what until then had been controversial. To this day Rome itself calls the Apocrypha a "dueterocanon" which means a second canon. Why? Because there is no denying that they canonized it in the 1500s far after canon had been widely recognized in the 300s.
Your comments have only affirmed my claim that you have not studied either Islam nor Protestantism very well. Neither it seems have you studied Rome's own history. Ask your priest if you doubt me. Ask him "When was the Apocrypha canonized?" It is very late. or ask him "Do the Jews recognize it as Inspired?" They do not. There is no reason to canonize the Apocrypha unless you are reacting against some movement that is threatening to starve your organization of very lucrative money raising scheme (indulgences) that cannot be justified by scripture but can be in heterodox documents no tradition before has seen as authoritative. Therefore, WALLA, canonize it. It's God's Word now because Rome says so. Very convenient.
Just an encouragement to at least check on Luther, Calvin and/or Bavinck.
I am Orthodox and love the one holy Catholic and apostolic church . We know that Gods grace is in the church, we do not know where Gods grace is not, only God knows this. If you want to make sure then, run to the church.
The church is the body of believers in Christ, those saved by his grace. The church is not merely one of the human institutions that provide organisation e.g. catholic, orthodox , or any of plethora of protestant denominations. Even Jesus' official body of followers included one traitor. The official churches include many who do not follow Christ, including the pope who arrogantly opposes Christ's teachings by calling himself the father and his excellency; and by sexually oppressing his religious clergy controlling them through enforced celibacy, rather than by example and love as Christ specified.
The pope is a religious tyrant. Unsurprisingly, many of his sexually oppressed servants are sexual abusers themselves. So this is evidence that the man made institutions we call churches are simply man made and contain believers and non believers, saved and unsaved. Christs' true church body consists of any and every person who is saved by grace, anywhere on earth, living or passed. Jesus' disciples were always looking for Christ's literal earthly kingdom, but the kingdom he did establish was not of this world and was born of the spirit. A spiritual kingdom with Christ the head.
@GreenJordan 30 False, Unholy, Idolatrous? more like the exact opposite buckaroo
@@joemen3332 Furthermore, the sacraments/mysteries of the Holy Church are not only bulwarks but weapons of mass destruction to our Passions and by extension the enemies of our Lord and God.
Brother this was such a good answer. I love you brother. In Christ
Giving more time to God by celibacy is something devil wouldnt apply to, specially when talking about religious representatives. People often judge others that pray before bedtime... judging the dedication to God? Look yourself, you dont even think that as sin.
One thing doesnt justify other, its like saying humanking tend to abuse when having no sex for longo períods of time, which is untrue, the person itself is to blame. Its like you are defending the abusers ("poor guys, If they had sex before It wouldnt happen"). In First place, Insane predators rape woman and abuse children as It was nothing, they doesnt repent, they doesnt even know what love is.
I'm a protestant that has loved hearing you speak especially with Capturing Christianity. I still don't agree with some of the arguments on why sola scriptura, or other reasons why Protestantism is wrong, but I don't see Catholics as my enemy. Just the teachings that I disagree with. You're a man that seeks God, and I'm willing to listen, and learn.
Why bother to be a catholic when it has a worldly leader who is a religious tyrant responsible for the sexual oppression of nuns and priests, totally against the teachings of Christ. Only Isis and CCP are worse tyrants in the political world.
Jesus started the Catholic church. Protestant churches started by men.
@@johnyang1420 lol what a great argument against someone who was talking about how they don’t see Catholics as an enemy. This is the disgusting nature of some people
@@edwinnunez7538 What I stated was a fact. You do not like facts?
Check out book Why We Are Catholic by Trent Horn.
Great video. Trent always does a sterling job to open the theology of Catholic study. Much like the famous quote of St John Vianney that "when much is given. . .much is asked".
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Thank you for the video.
Marci HF your welcome
I like the way Trent is being careful with his words when he says, "that would seem to me to be very unjust" (at 5:46) He is not using his intellect as a means to judge God, and take his personal feelings as God's standard of justice, where some people would. Even though I'm a protestant, I appreciate Trent's intellect and his wise way of wording things.
Yes! Love this discussion. Catholic convert and former Calvinist here... Calvinism is a hopeless twist on the gospel. No matter what you "do " you can't change whether your a chosen or condemned. So much for hope! How are you to know if you are a condemned pharisee, a condemned sinner, a regenerated filthy rags Christian? You can't know. You always wonder where you stand with Christ.
Not necessarily true! Jesus tells us if we do his will, we do the will of the Father. Our obligations are the ten commandments and doctrines of the Church. Follow these as faithfully as you can, receive grace from living a life partaking of the sacraments, and you can be morally certain of salvation. That's not a scientific decree; it's simple reason and revelation.
So you went from Calvinism where you cant change anything to Romanism where you have to earn your salvation and maybe if your lucky your works will be enough. You went from one extreme to the other, there is a middle ground, what the bible teaches, your are saved by grace through faith, not of works and do the good works that were ordained for you to do which are found in scripture. You are justified by faith and your works prove your faith was true, like scripture teaches. You say you were a Calvinist, did you study the word for God? When you did, did you see Romanism or did you see a middle ground?
@@Azygos1986 Yes! We Catholics get the point; try convincing or even discussing this with people like Nathan.
Your confusing hyper calvanism and calvanism .
The Lord knows our hearts. Thats why its best to pick our cross and follow HIM.
Great show Matt!
If we don't share our Catholic Faith with others and have missed opportunities or neglect in doing so, we will be held accountable for our actions when we come before Jesus in Judgement .
Of course!
I thought the pope said that it is a sin to proselytize -- as well as to use your air conditioner.
@@butterflybeatles You are correct, but it's okay if the one world government surrenders permission. I'd give up hope on the air conditioner, though.
I agree but it has to be done correctly. Going up to someone and screaming they need to be saved with biblical verses is actually counter productive and is merely virtue signaling by the person doing it. If they were really interested in leading others towards Christ they would evangelize by ways in which the other person understands, start with some common ground and work from there
The problem is... A man must be born again of the Spirit. To enter heaven.
Wow, Trent explained it waaaaay better than Bishop Barron when Ben Asked him on his show Sunday Special.
Bishop Barron's explanation was heresy.
Bishop Barron didn't have 10 minutes to answer this one question, like Trent did. Now stop throwing the word "heresy" around like party favors.
@@sikobaya9298Barron is weak but slowly gaining courage. Dude definitely needs to step his game up if he wants to remain relevant. Jordan Peterson told him to his face that catholics have "gone soft".
@@sikobaya9298What choice does a man of God have in a time like this when heresy is spreading like wildfire?
@@sikobaya9298Can I say that "Christ is the privileged way" is heresy in the context that Barron framed it in?
I spent 13 years in the Catholic Church after our ecumenical wedding. I was raised Protestant, then decided to follow Christ in the Baptist church, and have been in the Evangelical Free church since 2003. Sadly after 25 years our marriage didn’t survive addictions destructiveness. I am seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus, and am learning a lot through these videos. I do believe God is the only one able to discern the hearts of men and women...a genuine faith is a surrenders faith to Jesus, one day at a time...not sure I can accept that only those who receive all the sacraments will be with Jesus eternally. I trust He is leading me to His truth...and I cannot possibly judge another- no matter how good or bad the outside looks.
@@lkae4 What is the real gospel of grace?
I'd encourage you to look into Anglicanism
Hey, God created us.
We are fallen as humans.
We sin and are at odds with God. We need to be reconciled to God.
God sent His only Begotten Son Jesus to atone for our sins. God is merciful. Our sins are what cause the wrath of God to be upon us, keeping us separated from God, heading for destruction. God is just. Jesus lived a sinless life, shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins and died so that we could be reconciled to the Father, and so we could spend eternity with Him.
Jesus, having shed His blood to the point of death, then physically rose from grave.
We love because He first loved us.
We should walk as He walked.
If we sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, if we confess them and forgive others.
It's not about the building we go to, even though we should fellowship. God wants our hearts and us to know Him through knowing His Son Jesus Christ.
@@evanbiter2138 As a cradle Catholic I believe even Atheist ⚛️ can be SAVED. Because of Jesus Christ ✝️ Divine Mercy.
According to the recognitions of clement/clementine homilies... St. Peter acknowledged a tribe in India that were monotheist. He praised them for it and it seemed they were capable of salvation. Any thoughts on this?
If we could only love each other as God loves us through Jesus Christ ... someday, I believe!
Good discussion! Romans 2 also addresses this a bit (in verses 12-16) when it refers to the Gentiles being judged by their hearts and conscience.
The best (imperfect) analogy I can think of to describe predestination and free will is this:
.
You're a football fan and want to watch the game but you're doing some errands. So you set your DVR to record it. On the way home from running errands, you turn on the radio and hear someone announce the final score. Doh, spoiler! But you still watch the game because it's not just the end: it's the game you want to see.
.
So you watch the game, already knowing the outcome before the game even "starts" on your DVR. Does your foreknowledge in any way affect what the players did on the field? Nope. Just so with God. He gives us free will, but he knows what the end result of our free choices will be, even before the start of the world.
.
An imperfect analogy--life is not a game and God isn't ignorant of anything like we would be having not seen the game--but the best one I can think of to describe how knowledge of the end doesn't mean that free will is negated.
This is an outstanding summary of the "outside the church" issue & is great for apologetics.
Out side which church? There is only one church in scripture. "The church of God" Entrance is only by faith in the gospel. So believing in Catholic doctrine for salvation would keep one out of it.
@@murraylloyd6011 Don't forget for first 1500 years there was pretty much only Catholic, when I write the Church, I mean THE Church, the universal Church from which we derived our name, "katholikos".
Anyway, as Catholic, I hope all people will get into heaven, you included! God bless you!
@@hosatkIt's more correct to say the only church in scripture for the last 2000 years is called "the church of God". Scripture has no other name for a church save location all else is invention of man. I know I am going to heaven because I trust in the promise made to those who believe. You can also know you have eternal life if you believe the record God has given concerning his Son. Check out 1 John for details. Be blessed
Thinking about christ return makes me happy.
THANK U TRENT HORN! I WISH TO FIND MORE OF YOUR VIDEOS ON YOU TUBES. PLEASE HELP ME! YOUR ARE VERY CLEAR & CONFIDENT ABOUT THE TEACHINGS OF OUR ONE HOLY, CATHOLIC & APPOSTOLIC CHURCH! By Saba Korial, and I was born in Middle East, now Christian Catholic & Canadian. AMEN
But it's not Apostolic
Matthew 7:13-14: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
To "Prophet" Nathan: Scripture says again and again that God wills all to be saved. The bible does not support Calvinist double predestination.
@@Hello-ro8fq God desires that all sinners be saved: "...God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?" (Ezekiel 18:23)
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. (Matthew 23:37).
You're right, Nathan. I may not know Scriptures as I ought (don't think that's the case, though) but God's word is clear. Check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church or the teachings of the Council of Trent if you want to know more. Seems you have the short stick of understanding, here.
You are hereby demoted from self-proclaimed prophecy! A prophet is one who speaks for God. (See: Jeremiah 29:19 "For they have not listened to my words,”i declares the Lord, “words that I sent to them again and againj by my servants the prophets.k And you exiles have not listened either,” declares the Lord.) Since you don't know God's words, how can you claim to be his prophet?
@@Hello-ro8fq You're the one who's embarrasing yourself. People are actually quoting from the Bible and instead of refuting what they say, you're just "Nuh-uh" in every single one of your replies
Pathetic.
@@abnd8025 This is what fundamentalism is. No room for rational thought, the ego can't tolerate being wrong
Another example of PC grammar. . . . God does not wish all to be saved - such as insects and animals. God wishes all MEN to be saved. But PC grammar prohibits the use of the word, "man".
the bible doesnt support Roman CATHOLICISM neither,
Salvation was won by Jesus, not the "catholic" church.
You can separate the body from the head. The church is the body and Christ is the head.
John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
Acts 4: 10 "let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life."
Hebrews 7:21 "for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, “The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind, You are a priest forever’”;
22 by the same extent Jesus also has become the GUARANTEE [surety, co-signer] of a better covenant.
23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing;
24 Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is also able to save completely and forever those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."
2 Corinthians 1:19 "For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes. 20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a GUARANTEE ."
2 Corinthians 5:5 "For we KNOW that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed upon, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a GUARANTEE. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."
Ephesians 4:30 "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
Ephesians 2: 8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
John 6:29 "Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
Wow surprising that the Bible has the answer to all our questions about salvation. Jesus is the ONLY way amen!!
I think of the verse that says God desires all to be saved. He means that. If He means that, surely everyone who is willing to be saved by Him WILL be saved.
I also think of King David's infant son who died from sickness. David stopped mourning for him because he said he went somewhere good.
Catholics have a huge issue. They lack the simplicity of salvation through simply gaining grace of salvation through faith. The gospel is free to all at any time and God will give you his Holy Spirit. Amen
Simplicity??
@@crossbearer6453 Extremely simple, infact you must become as a little child to enter the kingdom! Jesus wants salvation for all and he makes it so very easy to gain. May the blood be upon your door post brother!
@@wojo9732 yes and in our child like demeanor , we follow His word , we humbly follow those with the authority to properly interpret the Bible
The Catholic Church
@@crossbearer6453 the papacy is the little horn in daniel 7, you dont know history
@@wojo9732 I know history and I know conspiracy theories. The fact that u have to resort to those is no surprise at this point
In answer to the title question: No. Your salvation is the result of the work of Christ on the cross and your placing your faith in Him. It is the gift of God, by His grace, toward you.
I'm Catholic because God lead me to the Catholic church
These guys are deep
Praying for you
I know the Roman Catholic Church venerates at least one Orthodox Christian. St. Seraphim, who was an EOC monk and is canonized by both the EOC and the RCC, he lived in the 1750s to the 1830s way after the Great Schism. So it appears that by that by the RCC's own recognition of saints it is possible for Christians of other traditions to achieve salvation.
There is almost 1000 yrs of shared saints, after that we orthodox question their heretic saints. I personally like Padre Pio though
@@bluedonkeyman heretic saints? wow. You know that feeling you have when talking to an athiest and you wonder how could these people think like that and be so ignorant and say such ridiculous things? This is exactly how I feel when I speak to a son of the fragmented orthodox churches, only a little better than ugh Anglicanism.
@@stickfigure820 go watch church militant and learn where the dirt lies. Go learn about your popes just prior to the schism. Our priests in our churches do not show up with gay flags. you are ignorant. go to school. St Paul came to Greece, the book of revelation written in greece. the bible written in greek. Dreamer. There was a reformation from Catholic for a reason. Orthodoy s the true aposotlic church and had no reformation. You were the first derivative from the original church when then branched off to spawn proetestantism
The Orthodox Church in England is insignificant, but you still judge that saints like John Fisher and Thomas More are heretics. Is Theodore of Tarsus, who introduced the Filioque to England, also a heretic?
It’s not that simple. The RCC and Orthodox are in communion. Protestants are not.
i'm not a catholic nor do i accept catholic teaching or authority, yet i follow Jesus Christ who saved me from myself and has placed me in ministry at my local church. Praise Jesus Christ and may His Father bless all believers who make up His body by the power of the Holy Spirit
@Qwerty I have the truth
@@bobpolo2964 no you dont go to Catholic Church and be born again
@@joeyf7606 Who are you to question my salvation?
@@joemen3332 The history of the catholic church is the history of high immortality, specifically in the realm of sexual sin. How can you make that statement?
Please join the Catholic church. I want you to be in heaven some day.
The correct question should be :-
Can a person be saved on rejecting Catholic faith?
Catholic faith is summarised in the Apostolic Creed.
The sacraments are part and parcel of Catholic faith.
The 5 precepts of the Church are also part and parcel of Catholic way of life.
The faith defined ex Cathedra are binding on all Catholics.
The books of the New Testament were endorsed by the Catholic Church for the Catholics to follow. The Old Testament books were also endorsed so that the revelation in the New Testament could be understood.
So, the question means, can a person who reject the above be saved?
This is timely as I have been thinking about this recently regarding my grandparents. They are in their late 80s. Raised Baptist from southern states. I was raised Catholic. My grandmother has faith...she has used water I gave her from Lourdes... without even understanding the Lourdes story, she believes it has healing through God.. My grandparents, however, lack the intellect, at this age, to understand why they should convert to the Catholic faith. My grandfather is beginning to get Alzheimer's. He lived a sinful life in his youth but he changed for the better, in his retirement years. I don't know his faith beliefs. I'm not sure how to get him to reconcile with God over his past. Maybe he has already. I believe there are many people who have issues with intellect that keep them from converting. I just don't see God turning them away. I believe when they see God at their death, they would choose to go to Him instead of turn away from him. I suppose we should be praying for final perseverance. My dad wasn't able to fully understand the Catholic faith but he must have understood enough that he asked to become Catholic before his death. He didn't live long enough to do so, but his intention was there, and he died on Divine Mercy Sunday.
I have been wondering this for my own dad. He has become very childlike as his mental decline progresses. The fact your dad wanted to convert & died on DMS is quite beautiful. God Bless you.
@@JS-wp4wy thank you. God bless you and your dad. Yes, it was a blessing he died on Divine Mercy Sunday. I remember getting ready for Mass that morning...I was finally going to get a day of rest from a long drive to the hospital. But I got the call to head to the hospital because he probably wasn't going to make it through the day. It seemed devastating but then I thought wow it's Divine Mercy Sunday. This is a blessing. Either we will have a miracle healing today or he'll pass and get to go to heaven. I prayed the chaplet in the hospital the best I could amongst the drama of that day. My family is not devout so they didn't know about it but 2 Polish nurses who happened to be there that day understood perfectly. I like to think maybe they were praying the chaplet for him silently, too. I just realized now what a blessing that was. He almost died at 2pm but held out until 5pm. His vitals suddenly went 100% normal which was impossible. I was thinking it was a miracle but then he sat up, looked straight ahead, like he saw something amazing. And he collapsed and his heart stopped. I think he saw Divine Mercy Jesus.
@@JS-wp4wy ...oh and I have wondered why God allowed that moment when my dad's vitals were suddenly perfect, making me think it was going to be a miraculous healing, when instantly, the next moment, he died. It seemed cruel at face value but honestly it was a blessing. It was God's way of showing me my dad was healed and Jesus was taking care of him. It was such a comfort, a reassurance. There's no logical, scientific reason his vitals could have been perfect. It was a message for me.
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He shed His precious Blood Forgiving me. for ALL of my sins (past, present and future) at the Cross. I am Saved by Faith in Jesus Christ and Faith in His precious Blood. For without the shedding of the blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
Any questions?
No you do not need the catholic church to be saved. Only Christ saves.
Dear People,
I would just like to add that Trent is quoting Vatican II which different from what the Church has always taught. If you want to know what the Church has always taught, listen to Fr Relyea on the matter of No Salvation outside the Church. Fr Relyea explains what the Church has always taught. May the Lord Saturate your Souls with the Holy Spirit. 🔥✝️📿🙏
One issue I have with this video especially as a Calvinist is that the Bible seems to be clear that we were all enemies of God before conversion and that God has to draw us. So then how could a person be a “honest seeker” of the living God? Doesn’t God himself have to transcend and change that persons heart? I will quote the verses I am thinking of
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind( Ephesians 2:3)
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.(John 6:44)
as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.” (Roman’s 3:10-12)
I honestly find it to be a gut punch that any Christian subgroup would suggest their group is the only one illuminating the path to salvation.
Jesus seemed to think that he was the way, the truth, and the life, and that no one could come to the Father except by him. I'm OK with a group that thinks they are the ones who follow the "real" Jesus, but I think I would disagree that it's limited to one or the other denomination.
@@josephbrandenburg4373 But when people have moments when they died, if you believe them, the many books etc. it covers all religions and Jesus was Jewish and you see him talking to Moses and Elijah. God isn't human, his mind is greater than ours.
Here ua-cam.com/video/ysofIfbmmts/v-deo.html
It really makes sense actually
What, then determines actual Christian teaching?
I am Protestant, though I was Catholic before grade 5. I do not believe in Calvinism. I believe both Catholics and Calvinist love God, and can have a saving faith as much as anyone. I enjoyed the topic of this video, it is a topic that I struggle with and there is good insight here using references from Scripture. What we understand about the nature of God is sometimes overlooked. That He is is merciful, not bound like some formula to save you, and hates inequity. We don't know what happens to people who have never encountered Christianity, or have not had a fair chance to understand it, but what right do we have to assume God's judgment on them? Assuming something in God's name does not show fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom. Yet, I feel that Scripture is like a tuning fork, without it it's like trying to tune an instrument by ear without training, maybe impossible, and with it we can more effectively understand the nature of God and serve Him.
A tuning fork! I like that analogy!
It's like your saying the Word of God isn't clear?
@@munashemanamike4217 how do you mean? There are no mysteries?
@@michaelsovereign6262 Well Catholics kind of make it seem like scripture is absolutely incoded and can't be understood on it's own. I find that disingenuous yes it's complex yes there are details buts it's also straightforward and clear. Also thanks for responding this is an old comment, How are you
I am well, Merry Christmas to you. Hope you are well!
There are very clear teachings in Scripture, for example (paraphrase maybe) "there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved" referring to Jesus. How or if God may save people who have never heard Jesus's name is more difficult, since Jesus could still save those who have eternity in their hearts.
Consider as an example a country in Africa where Scripture wasn't known till more recent times. Are the ancestors of the modern people all condemned?
C.S. Lewis makes a point on it as well as many other notable Christians that we just can't know.
I am always careful with groups claiming to understand the mysteries of God with definitive and absolute interprtations. It is a big red flag for me.
God provides sufficient knowledge through Scripture to know Him and the evidence is all around us for its truth. So that, when we come across something less clear we still can trust the more clear verses. But many people become convinced of false teachings because they claim to understand the mysteries in the Bible and give well crafted interpretations.
Sorry wall of text maybe lol. Just thoughts since I'm in a thinking mood.
Best argument for following Torah here
Guard your heart whoever you are or whatever you believe, it is the wellspring of life.
"No Salvation Outside the Church" is not a principle as Trent says, It's an infallble dogma of the Church defined three times. Baptism saves, not ignorance. God will send an Angel to baptize if He wants a person to be saved, but they will be saved inside the Church. Everything else is badly speculated excuses to deny the dogma. You may as well argue about who "might" have been saved outside of Noah's Ark.
" God will send an Angel to baptize if He wants a person to be saved, but they will be saved inside the Church. "
That is exactly what Trent means. In the end, we only know how to baptize one way, yet God has already saved so many people without baptism (think the crucified robber that was next to crucified Jesus). Unfortunately, the only way we know FOR CERTAIN to bring people into Christ's Church and thus to Salvation is this one way we were taught: Water baptism + valid Sacraments
If it was ever intended to be a strict, "only water baptized within the Visible Church, and registered in the paper records" then many early martyrs would be in Hell. This just cannot be possible, we also know dying for the Faith immediately saves you.
We can only argue that while indeed you must be within Christ's Body to be saved, we don't know for certain all the ways God has to introduce people in it. Of course, we also know of ways people can *leave* the Church, so we aren't 100% in the blind. If X person has committed atrocities he never repented of, then no known or unknown baptism would save him.
This is why it's so important to evangelize. It's our God-given duty to provide to everyone the confirmed, known, true venue to salvation. Sure, maybe Y person MAY have been "baptized by an angel" as you say, but just imagine for a moment not having access to confession, the Eucharist. We are making the path to salvation that much harder, if not impossible, for these (potentially) righteous people.
In any case, the (certainly infallible) dogma "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus" remains a confusing mess.
I sometimes wonder what happened to the souls of genuinely good people that lived and died before Christ's sacrifice and resurrection.
You mean like Moses and Elijah in the Transfiguration.
And who is "Genuinely Good"?
@@JulioCaesarTM Might be like Moses or Elijah but I'm thinking of a wider group like peasants who lived a humble life, loved their family and helped their neighbors, in general followed the law of the land and the Golden rule ("Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them." CCC 1789) but happened to live before Christ.
Bela Kovacs Have you heard of the harrowing of hell? Jesus wasn’t doing nothing those days he was dead you know ;)
I think they will be resurrected and live with Christ during the 1000 years. ( i am unsure)
@@samuellolango9720 The point emphasized in the Bible is that "None are good, no not one"(Romans 3:11). God still reached out to people outside Israel prior to Christ. The primary viewpoint focus in the Bible though is centered around Israel.
As for those throughout the rest of the world look back at the flood and Noah. The entire world had become so corrupt and wicked that God had to wipe out everyone. The people laughed and mocked Noah until it was too late. This isn't to suggest that all people before Jesus were just hopelessly lost outside the Jews. Their are several examples (the woman at the well, the centurion, Abraham, etc) of people who didn't know Jesus but yet still professed faith and received justification.
I was taught the answer to this question under the Baltimore catechism over 50 years ago. ANYONE can be saved. Only the one who knows the that the true faith is found in the Church and then rejects it is condemned. An analogy might be the parable of the field workers who each received different pay for the same work; God gives each of us according to his will. Each one of us was created to be in heaven forever. God wants every one of us to be saved.
From the homily of St. Augustine of Hippo, on the feast day of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul:
Saint Peter, the fervent follower of Jesus Christ, for the profound confession of His Divinity: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God", - was deemed worthy by the Saviour to hear in answer: "Blessed art thou, Simon... I tell thee, that thou art Peter (Petrus), and on this stone (petra) I build My Church" (Mt. 16: 16-18). On "this stone" (petra), is on that which thou sayest: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God", - it is on this thy confession I build My Church. Wherefore the "thou art Peter": it is from the "stone" (petra) that Peter (Petrus) is, and not from Peter (Petrus) that the "stone" (petra) is - just as how the christian is from Christ, and not Christ from the christian...
Our Lord Jesus Christ, in the final days of His earthly life, in the days of His mission to the race of man, chose from among the disciples His twelve Apostles for preaching the Word of God. Among them, the Apostle Peter for his fiery ardour was vouchsafed to occupy the first place (Mt. 10: 2) and to be as it were the representative person for all the Church. And therefore it is said to him, preferentially, after the confession: "And I give thee the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven: and if thou bindest upon the earth, it will be bound in the Heavens: and if thou loosenest upon the earth, it will be loosened in the Heavens (Mt.16; 19). Wherefore it was not one man, but rather the One Universal Church, that received these "keys" and the right "to bind and loosen". And that actually it was the Church that received this right, and not exclusively a single person, turn your attention to another place of the Scriptures, where the same Lord says to also all His Apostles: "Receive ye the Holy Spirit", - and further after this: "Whoseso sins ye remit, are remitted them: and whoseso sins ye retain, are retained" (Jn. 20: 22-23); or: "with what ye bind upon the earth, will be bound in Heaven: and with what ye loosen upon the earth, will be loosened in the Heavens" (Mt. 18: 18). Thus, it is the Church that binds, the Church that loosens; the Church, built upon the foundational corner-stone - Jesus Christ Himself (Eph. 2: 20) doth bind and loosen...
And after His Resurrection the Lord entrusted the Apostle Peter to shepherd His spiritual flock not because, that among the disciples only Peter alone was pre-deserved to shepherd the flock of Christ, but Christ addresses Himself chiefly to Peter because, that Peter was first among the Apostles and as such the representative of the Church; besides which, having turned in this instance to Peter alone, as to the top Apostle, Christ by this confirms the unity of the Church. "Simon of John, - says the Lord to Peter, - lovest thou Me? - and the Apostle answered: "Yea, Lord, Thou knowest that I love Thee"; and a second time it was thus asked, and a second time he thus answered; being asked a third time, seeing that as it were not believed, he was saddened. But how is it possible for him not to believe That One, Who knew his heart? And wherefore then Peter answered: "Lord, Thou knowest all; Thou knowest that I love Thee". "And sayeth Jesus to him" all three times "Feed My sheep" (Jn. 20: 15-17). Besides this, the thrice appealing of the Saviour to Peter and the thrice confession of Peter before the Lord had a particular beneficial purpose for the Apostle. That one, to whom was given "the keys of the kingdom" and the right "to bind and to loosen", himself thrice bound himself by fear and cowardice (Mt. 26: 69-75), and the Lord thrice loosens him by His appeal and in turn by his confession of strong love. And to shepherd literally the flock of Christ was acquired by all the Apostles and their successors.
No, you don't. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. The key word is whosoever. There is no denomination or group that is special to God or Jesus.
"Whoever wills to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he holds the catholic faith. Unless a person keeps this faith whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish eternally."
Small c catholic means universal or all-encompassing.
Big C catholic is a denominational construct of Christianity.
JESUS IS SALVATION!
Very good
Hi, Mr. Fradd. Serious question here. Not rhetorical. I’m not trolling or attempting to be a jerk. How do you *personally* reconcile (maybe you don’t?) the logic Horn applies in his answer with someone like WLC, who you just interviewed? Thanks in advance should you respond.
Also, I would really be interested in seeing a future podcast where you delve into why *not* Orthodoxy.
Even though he has done podcasts with orthodox, how do u expect him not to draw the line given he is Catholic?
I think the Catholic Church or any other has no power to determine who will be saved or not. There's salvation aside the church, but not aside Jesus. "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Christ does so using His Church.
The Catholic Church
@@crossbearer6453 not just Catholics, but all true believers. God does not show favoritism.
Salvation comes only through Jesus Christ....not a church. (Acts 4:10-12)
Shhhhhhh 🤫 ….don’t let our Catholic brothers and sisters know this. They might discover Christianity ✝️😳😁
@@gfujigoCatholics were the first christians, your variant of christianity didn’t exist until the 16th century.
Jesus founded the church (Matthew 16:18-19), commanded others to listen to it (Matthew 18:17), and scripture asserts that it is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15)
Why might it be that this all arises anew now? Nothing occurs coincidentally. God does nothing arbitrarily, certainly not within humanity. This in my humble opinion is a simple question to answer when one takes a look at our world as it is increasingly now
It is necessary to be aware of this and pray accordingly as a vast multitude are lost in the darkness, lies, and confusion, both in the world, but also in the Church. So much of what in our culture once knew Him intimately now has had the vision of how it fits into His Grand Design so darkened as to even think the very concept impossible to concieve of. Thus, these aspects of the Faith are needed to be remembered. Evangelization must be a foremost priority even so, for how many can to themselves say "Yes, I lived a truly virtuous life."? The Catholic Church is the safest path to salvation. So evangelize and pray and let God be God.
I was taught in Catechism that all people face a personal judgement from God after death and if you die with unconfessed mortal sin you are going to hell. How can you have any realistic chance of going to heaven if you never accepted Jesus as your savior and if you never had your sins forgiven through the blood and merits of Jesus Christ received through the sacraments of the Catholic Church, i.e. Confession, Baptism or Extreme Unction?
This a problem when you go to the CCC for your truth and not to God's written word the scriptures.
Acts 2:38 tells us that your sins will be forgiven . If all your sins are forgiven then there is no sin available to send you to hell. 1 John 2:1,2 1 John 1:9 Romans 10:9
believers are not found being judged in the final great white throne judgement but the believers are judged for what they did, with what Christ has done for them, and how the believer has built upon the foundation that Christ provided. 1 Cor 3:10-15
It’s also a problem when when every thing you know came from Martin Luther or your Bible class which is just someone else’s interpretation. Read gospel of matthew 25 31-46. The final judgment of all people states you will be judged on your actions.
@@psallen5099
The great white throne judgment is described in Revelation 20:11-15 and is the final judgment prior to the lost being cast into the lake of fire. We know from Revelation 20:7-15 that this judgment will take place after the millennium and after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are (Revelation 19:19-20; 20:7-10). The books that are opened (Revelation 20:12) contain records of everyone’s deeds, whether they are good or evil, because God knows everything that has ever been said, done, or even thought, and He will reward or punish each one accordingly (Psalm 28:4; 62:12; Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; 18:6; 22:12).
Also at this time, another book is opened, called the “book of life” (Revelation 20:12). It is this book that determines whether a person will inherit eternal life with God or receive everlasting punishment in the lake of fire. Although Christians are held accountable for their actions, they are forgiven in Christ and their names were written in the “book of life from the creation of the world” (Revelation 17:8). We also know from Scripture that it is at this judgment when the dead will be “judged according to what they had done” (Revelation 20:12) and that “anyone’s name” that is not “found written in the book of life” will be “thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15).
The fact that there is going to be a final judgment for all men, both believers and unbelievers, is clearly confirmed in many passages of Scripture. Every person will one day stand before Christ and be judged for his or her deeds. While it is very clear that the great white throne judgment is the final judgment, Christians disagree on how it relates to the other judgments mentioned in the Bible, specifically, who will be judged at the great white throne judgment.
Some Christians believe that the Scriptures reveal three different judgments to come. The first is the judgment of the sheep and the goats or a judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-36). This takes place after the tribulation period but prior to the millennium; its purpose is to determine who will enter the millennial kingdom. The second is a judgment of believers’ works, often referred to as the “judgment seat [bema] of Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:10). At this judgment, Christians will receive degrees of reward for their works or service to God. The third is the great white throne judgment at the end of the millennium (Revelation 20:11-15). This is the judgment of unbelievers in which they are judged according to their works and sentenced to everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.
Other Christians believe that all three of these judgments speak of the same final judgment, not of three separate judgments. In other words, the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15 will be the time that believers and unbelievers alike are judged. Those whose names are found in the book of life will be judged for their deeds in order to determine the rewards they will receive or lose. Those whose names are not in the book of life will be judged according to their deeds to determine the degree of punishment they will receive in the lake of fire. Those who hold this view believe that Matthew 25:31-46 is another description of what takes place at the great white throne judgment. They point to the fact that the result of this judgment is the same as what is seen after the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15. The sheep (believers) enter into eternal life, while the goats (unbelievers) are cast into “eternal punishment” (Matthew 25:46).
Whichever view one holds of the great white throne judgment, it is important to never lose sight of the facts concerning the coming judgment(s). First, Jesus Christ will be the judge, all unbelievers will be judged by Christ, and they will be punished according to the works they have done.
The Bible is very clear that unbelievers are storing up wrath against themselves (Romans 2:5) and that God will “give to each person according to what he has done” (Romans 2:6).
Believers will also be judged by Christ, but since Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to us and our names are written in the book of life, we will be rewarded, but not punished, according to our deeds. Romans 14:10-12 says that we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and that each one of us will give an account to God.
Objectively, it's not possible to be saved outside the church. This was always the teaching of the church until the 60's. Subjectively, we don't know what God can do to save someone.
God can do everything. He isn't human with our little brains. No matter what we sit around thinking, he has the last word. His love is not in our understanding really.
That’s false, invincible ignorance was clearly taught in Pope Pius X’s catechism and elsewhere before Vatican II. One does need to be in the church, however if one who hasn’t been given the gospel (and so hasn’t rejected Christ) lives as a Christian does, and in accordance with God’s will, then it’s certainly possible for them to be counted among the faithful.
Every church system, including Catholic, is deeply flawed and imperfect because they all involve human beings. We all need grace for each other. I think it's by God's grace we can all encounter Jesus and find salvation in whatever denomination,, as well as the strength to respect and love each other.
We call the Bible holy because we believe God speaks through it. There are things in it that can hardly be called holy. The Palestine is called holy land because Christ had been there physically. There had been adulteries and massacres there though. We called the catholic Church Church holy because Christ subsists in it. When a priest consecrates bread and wine to become body and blood of Christ, it is Christ himself doing it spiritually. The status of spiritual life of that particular priest is unimportant at that moment.
The existence of different and separate churches or denominations only prove that they believe in different Jesuses. Those separate churches were not prefigured by Noah's fleet of arks. The Bible is very clear that Jesus established only one Church on Peter. He was not perfect but by God's grace he never erred in matter of faith and morals.
@@bthongni55 good response
About the persecution of jews in the middle ages... The persecution comes only thousand of years after the beginning Christianity (that the period called "calm" for jewish historians). After that the main persecution comes in the Rhiney valley where the bishop mostly act to protected jews from the people. See Rodney Stark for a review.
I have one uncle that my grandparents never got around to baptize. He was the youngest. He's a very good man. He won't get baptized. Please pray for him.
pray for him to accept Christ into his life and not get over enthused that baptism will help him as it is symbolic of death in the world and new life in Christ but baptism by itself will not save you.
@@brucewmclaughlin9072 i think he does believe. It would surprise me if he doesn't but yes I should pray for that. I feel bad everyone else was baptized but he wasn't. His wife is a non-practicing Catholic. There's so many people like her who don't practice the faith as a result of poor catechesis or from being influenced by bad examples from other Catholics who don't represent the faith properly. I hope God accounts for that. Most of my family is this way. Good Catholics have a lot of work to do to show people who we really are and what we really believe.
2:07 there is no salvation in or outside of the catholic church or any church. There is salvation in Christ alone!
I'm Catholic and know with all my heart you dont need to be part of some social-political group on Earth to have your soul saved. Why would there be a Last Judgement if everyone outside the faith is going to hell? Scripture says God is not partial. Have faith in Christ, try to be like Christ, be willing to die for Christ and you're likely going to heaven.
Michael Litz
You are probably taking the division of christians as a doctrinal christian fact or (even worse) a irrelevance, which is not, but a result of the sinful men and man structural organizational aspects of the mistery of the Church. Besides, if you define the Church as a social-political group, I hate to say, but EITHER you are not catholic at all or you just have a strong relativist and modernist inclination on eclesiology, because your approach just signifies a natural reality rather than a supernatural reality. No one couldn’t even understand what one would name as “political-social gruoup” as a Church until 16th century and the protestant revolution. We catholics believe the church (ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC) is not a club with membership cards like you pretty much think it to be: it is the mystical body of Jesus Christ and the continuation of the mistery of Encarnation through time and space.
The whole point of salvation is not as much being personally saved than to be saved as being part of the People of God within the New and eternal alliance with an all Providential God. Whenever you have time, just search the way Church fathers always spoke about unity and division of the church: this solipsistic view is just a creation that was born, in Modern times, with the age of 16 centuries.
Greetings from Brazil
You can have assurance.
salvation and a future with Christ after death (heaven) is a free gift, not of works lest any man should boast. Acceptance by conditional service is an insult to God's unconditional love and his offer of mercy.
Living a life of faith, worthy of Christ is another matter and is related to "rewards in heaven " (to use Jesus' words). It's apprenticeship time and our "grades" and quality of work (expression of faith) will determine the tasks we are entrusted with in future, both here and beyond the grave.
Stephen King That is heresy.
It is sad that you do not have assurance of salvation. If you read the scriptures (John and Romans) you can be sure that you are saved if you trust Christ for your salvation. Salvation is not of works, lest any man boast, it is the free gift of God to all who repent and believe.
Jesus said to the man on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise". Good works proceed from faith and from God within, not as a struggle to gain God's favour and earn salvation. If you are unsure of your salvation you are placing your trust not in Christ but in yourself or something else. When Christ offers salvation it is like unconditional love. His justice and love are complete and not dependent on our inevitable failures or them being balanced with whatever successes we might have. The whole point of the law was to show man that he could not gain purity or salvation by effort, by works. He needed to do what Adam failed to do: trust God. Our obedience and walk makes us grow spiritually and makes us more productive, but does not earn any path to heaven.
How about analyzing the Beatitudes? I think one can serve God and love Christ without actually knowing it specifically and producing fruit.
What happens when someone leaves the traditional mass and all masses for years because of what is happening inside the church
Are the saved?
Was the thief on the cross catholic? He's in paradise for eternity with Jesus...
Yet..he didn't attend mass, get baptized as a baby, get confirmed or go to confession.
Anyone care to comment?
He was living under the old covenant laws.
@@djf5069 Wasn't Jesus living proof of the New Covenant.......33 years in the making......HIS apostles.....several years earlier were learning the new teachings of Jesus...
But anything is possible with the Lord...
Afterall Jesus did say...."I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through ME"...... Wow...that was a lucky guy.
I also thought of the story Jesus told them about the workers parabke....they were needed for labor in the field...
*** The ones who showed up to work just as the day was ending...received the same pay as those who showed up early in the morning to work.
The thief on the cross( who showed up late)... received his eternal reward even though he didn't know about salvation until his final hours while he spoke with Jesus!
@@lordsdisciple88 OUCH ! Slam dunk!
All I hear is,
The church says…
The catechism says…
The church teaches…
The catechism says…
What does Jesus and the Bible say? How does a church decide whether or not Christians are saved? Papal authority is a false belief, Christ is the only authority.
It’s quite simple really. Just as you have lawyers and Judges to interpret Laws, and make judgements, you have a learned authority to interpret scripture. Otherwise you end up with tens of thousands of sects (protestants).
Jesus founded a Church and the Bible is the fruit of the Church Jesus founded. Jesus gave teaching authority to his Apostles and their successors. Jesus never once told his disciples to write a book or to even write down anything they learned from Him. They decided by their authority through the Holy Spirit that they could teach in writing as well as preaching. And after there were many writings floating around (some of which not written by an apostle or legitimate successor to an apostle) The Church decided to establish which writings were authentic. By what authority did the Church at the Council of Hippo decide what to include in the Bible? That authority came from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16: 18-19. "Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” John 20 : 21-23. "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26. “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that He will receive what He will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what He will make known to you.” John 16: 12-15
Jesus gave the Church authority to teach and govern. And, yes, that's in the Bible.
@@MillionthUsername how do you know a church ran by humans is always right? Isn't it better to make sure the church is matching the teachings of the Bible so they don't stray away from the truth over time?
@@kylethomas2993 The Church is a divine as well as a human institution. It is founded by Christ and He gave her authority to teach and promised to guide and protect her. It is part of our faith in God to have faith that His Word is true, His promises of guidance and protection of the Church are true. It's that simple. In order to be a Christian, you must receive the Faith from the Church that Christ established for this very purpose.
"Isn't it better to make sure the church is matching the teachings of the Bible so they don't stray away from the truth over time?"
No one is smarter than God, so offering some other human plan to supposedly keep the Church on track isn't going to work. Why not? Because what the Church teaches is the standard of orthodoxy, not what any random person hundreds or thousands of years after the fact thinks. This idea that you can sort of start from scratch merely by reading the Bible and coming up with your own interpretations is false. The Bible does not tell us to do this and does not make this claim. Jesus and the Apostles never made this claim - that "there will be books in the future (that the Church herself codifies) and you will get your doctrine from your own reading of those books." That's an absurd standard. He already established the Church and gave her authority to teach. No one can come along later and say that their opinions are the established orthodoxy. How is that even a standard? Every person would then have their own religion.
And the logic of it doesn't make sense since it's inherently self-contradictory. You are saying that man can't be trusted, and then the solution offered is what? Other men and their opinions. No, the solution is the divine promises since God does not lie and is not even capable of lying.
This doesn't mean that individuals, leaders, and perhaps many or most individuals and leaders in the Church could be wrong at any particular time and require correction. It means that the solemn definitions of the Faith are sure. You can have various false teachers in the Church, but God protects the Church from officially and formally teaching anything false in her teaching office. This is why the definition of papal infallibility is so narrow. It only applies to ex-cathedra teaching when the pope invokes his apostolic power. And since we have the whole deposit of Faith (for two thousand years) and know it, it's not really possible for anyone to say, "No, that's not true. You have to believe X now instead of Y." The Catholic Faith is pretty much etched in stone. So even when the great apostasy occurs (are we in it yet?), there will be a faithful remnant. At one point, the Arian heresy looked like it had swallowed up the Church, and in the future (now?) we may see an even greater crisis where the Faith is either lost or denied over large swaths of what outwardly appears to be the Church, but God will always preserve the Church and not allow the gates of Hell to prevail, as He promised.
I enjoy these resources, but would love to hear a verse by verse from Tent on Romans 9. I felt the way he seems to articulate on predestination, until a friend had me just read the passage and analyze the argument in the context of Romans. What does the individual use of the characters Paul chooses mean for individuals in or out of covenant relationship with God, and what they contribute to their walk?
I am not a Catholic and am very much on the fence about Calvinist soteriology - but Romans 9 is not about individuals. Read it in context, Romans 8-11. Paul is talking about the Jews and Gentiles, and it makes much more sense when you read it in context.
@@josephbrandenburg4373 Sure. But see v.18 and the use of Pharaoh, as a type for what God does to individual hearts within corporate groups. Totally agree the larger argument concerns why the Israelites, as a corporate group, are rejecting the Messiah. The argument is that God corporately has worked this way, and individually has worked this way, specifically to show just judgement to vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and glory to vessels of mercy prepared beforehand for glory.
@@georgeluke6382 I have reread both of your comments and now I am not so sure what you mean specifically. I'd appreciate it if you could expound on it more, so that I can explain what I think.
In the general sense (and very much in my opinion) I don't think I can accept the idea that "God is love" and "desires that all should come to repentance" but would ordain from the beginning of the world that some people would be damned, not for the sake of love but for personal glory. It seems petty to me. I'm not saying I want to throw out the whole TULIP system, but I can't accept it either if there's no way to understand it except that God somehow values glory over the people he ostensibly loves so much.
Thus, following the principle of non-contradiction I am hesitant to read Romans 9 as a description of individual predestination to perdition. Especially in light of the context, I think it is talking about the nations of Israel and the Gentiles- specifically unbelieving Jews vs. believing Gentiles.
@@georgeluke6382 the truth is, I've always found Paul's question in v 19 to be especially pointed, and his response in 20-21 to be especially weak, if read from an individual point-of-view. If God makes me bad and then judges me bad for it, I should think I have every right to question him.
Look at 1-5. Paul wishes that he could give his own life for the sake of the people of Israel. He has deep sorrow and unceasing anguish in his heart. Does Paul love them more than God does? Is Paul more grieved over theid unbelief than God? Was Jesus lying when he said that there is much rejoicing in heaven over just one sinner coming to repentance? I can't read all of this in context and accept the idea that Paul is telling us that God is just using people as a way to demonstrate his power.
That being said, I won't claim that I fully understand it. I think it's unusual for Paul, who is usually such a clear writer, to have such a difficult to understand message in the midst of a critical passage.
@@josephbrandenburg4373 But doesn't that depend on what God's love is? If God's love is the revelation of the most lovely thing, in all its proportions, it makes sense here for Paul to undo the expectations of Jews who think God's love is loyalty to them just because they're Jewish, by saying his love extends past them to individual households of Gentiles, chosen just as Jacob was chosen over Esau, not because of anything internally merited by them, but sheerly by his mercy to Adam's race in freely choosing and unhardening his people's hearts.
what about Cantante Domino?...
Love the talk, but it is still a contradiction. Vatican 2 OBJECTIVELY contradicts centuries of constant theological teaching of the church regarding Extra Ecclesium Nulla Sallus. The problem is that there is no reason to reject Vatican 2 as invalid and the pontiffs as Antipopes. As a Protestant considering the Catholic Church, I cant ignore this.
Look into the sspx and recognize and resist. That’s where I am currently
@Traditional Catholic You're insane if you think a man's salvation is dependent upon his intellectual and forensic ability to take a stake in complicated theological debates and hope he's on the right side. Christ talked of being like one of these little ones, having child-like faith in His word, to enter His kingdom. I'm a very traditional conservative Catholic Christian but I have found your cult to be false and spiritually repressing.
@Traditional Catholic I simply pray that Jesus will guide me to truth and have faith that this open mentality is sufficient. I am no fan of Francis and some of the theologically questionable things he has said. I am sure we could agree on much criticism on Francis. Full blown sedevacantism however is a far cry from criticizing a mortal man's statements not made in infallible documents. I trust Jesus will ensure I receive any and all knowledge I need.
@Traditional Catholic I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question. That truly depends on what is in his heart and mind which God knows. Instead we could debate, "Is X statement/belief of Francis Catholic".
Vatican II does contradict centuries of Catholic tradition and magisterium but it was not a dogmatic council, but simply a pastoral council. If there's any part of it which seems contradictory, it is because of the ambiguity of the texts which would require a doctorate to rationalize in alignment with tradition. But these novelties which certain theologians don't look past do not define the Catholic Church. The Church's doctrines cannot change.
Salvation is found in no other name or church but Christ!
Amen!
Your false dichotomy between Christ and His Church doesn't work. It's a contradiction. You take the NT Church and its leaders as infallibly inspired by God, don't you? Well, that's THE CHURCH.
How come you don't just toss the NT entirely and sit in a lotus position and get revelation directly from Christ if that is what you say you actually believe?
Matthew 16:18...And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,and upon this ROCK I WILL BUILD "MY CHURCH" AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT...JESUS SAID "MY CHURCH".IT'S JESUS' CHURCH..!!THERE IS NO OTHER CHURCH BUT JESUS' CHURCH BUILD ON HIMSELF THE ROCK.THE LORD IS MY ROCK...1SAMUEL2:2...THERE IS NONE HOLY AS THE LORD:FOR THERE IS NONE BESIDE THEE: NEITHER IS THERE ANY ROCK LIKE OUR GOD. THIS ROCK IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IS THE SAME ROCK IN MATTHEW16: 18..!! BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS ARE CHRIST BODY HERE ON EARTH..HIS CHURCH. BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS ARE BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST WHICH IS HIS CHURCH.YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST.1PETER1:23...BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE,BY THE WORD OF GOD, WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOR EVER.
ANYONE CAN BE SAVE ANYWHERE..!! FAITH COMETH BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD. THERE IS NO SALVATION IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.CATHOLISIM HAS A FALSE GOSPLE THAT CANNOT SAVE..!!
I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH,AND THE LIFE, NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER ACCEPT THROUGH ME. NOT THROUGH MARY,NOT THROUGH THE POPE, NOT THROUGH THE EUCHARIST, ROSARY, MAN-MADE STATUES, NOT THROUGH TRADITIONS OF MAN, NOT THROUGH CHURCH FATHERS,NOT THROUGH PRIESTS,....IT IS ALL OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT 👍 👍...!!!!!
Quick optimistic note from a Protestant: the view of "predestination" that these good gents refer to as Thomistic (and therefore Catholic) is essentially the same as what Calvin himself taught. (And what they sometimes here refer to as the "Calvinistic" double-predestination view, that a person may be damned regardless of what they choose to believe -- that wasn't at all taught by Calvin, nor by anyone in mainstream post-Calvinistic thought. Calvin would have seen Aquinas and especially Augustine as absolute allies on this point. Put another way: the Thomistic view of predestination and the Calvinistic version are not far removed from each other. (Hyper-Calvinism is a different story, which is much more deterministic, yes, but this view is a rare anomaly within Calvinism and is ruled out by all Protestant creeds). Speaking as a Protestant here to my Catholic brethren: we're actually not far removed on this point. Let's be friends. Salvation is of God's grace: if we're saved, God gets all the credit and we get none; if we're not, we only have ourselves to blame, not him. We may have other points of loving disagreement, but predestination is not one.
For 1500 years there was only one church …..the Catholic church founded by Jesus Himself when He anointed the apostle Peter as the first pope
" You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church"
Then 1500 years after that along comes Luther ( after Satan had whispered in his ear) and split the church apart ….just as Satan had instructed .
Luther Calvin and others started the rot . ( Now remember this was 1500 years after Christ founded His church …..there was no protestant church ….it was the Catholic church
Catholic means universal .
From the Greek word KATOLIKOS.
Martin Luther, an EX CATHOLIC wanted to reform the Catholic church but took it too far. He began the great division in the church in the 16th century .He believed he was inspired by God and that no one could criticize his ideas. He was a narcissist...he said " In a 1000 years no bishop has been bestowed with such gifts as God has bestowed upon me". He said he is certain that he has received his dogmas from heaven …..he said " I am the prophet of the Germans ". But the fact is he followed the teachings of Henry of Ockham.
He started translating the bible from Greek without having any knowledge of Greek .He translated the " man is justified by faith " into " man is justified by faith alone " he added the word " alone " by himself .When someone criticized him for that he replied " Doctor Martin Luther translates it that way and that's how I want it."....over 1400 errors were found in his translation .He excluded certain books from the bible by his own authority …..he said the epistle of James is nothing more than straw because it does not present any evangelical character. Regarding the book of revelation he said that he does not find anything apostolic or prophetic in this book. He commissioned rude paintings of the pope of that time and got it published ( is that the conduct of a holy man ….a man inspired by God ?). When he blessed people he would say "
May the Lord fill you with his blessing and hatred for the pope.
( Is that a blessing ? Or a curse?)
On marriage he said that marriage is mandatory ….that woman was not created to be a wife but to beget children they only serve for marriage or prostitution. He said he hates divorce so much that he prefers bigamy. He allowed prince Phillip to have 2 wives and justified it based on the bible and when people found out he lied and said that one was his concubine and not his wife.
He loved the virgin Mary and said she was the tender mother of God ….in his dining room He had the crucifix and and image of Mary holding the infant Jesus .He accepted baptism and the real presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. He later said that Lutheranism was no better than catholicism
It seems like whenever Catholics address the questions of them being the “one true church” or “salvation being found outside of Catholicism” that they just address non-Christian religions and those who haven’t heard the Gospel before but have varying degrees of revelation.
As a Protestant I just want to hear Catholics plainly address Protestants in these questions.
I’m not mad, just a like frustrated I can’t get a clear answer.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:9 is just one of a number of abbreviated accounts of salvation that do not mention everything necessary. The message preached by both Jesus and John the Baptist was “Repent and believe,” but in Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized,” without even mentioning belief. Later in Acts, Paul tells the Philippian jailer, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 2:31), without mentioning repentance or baptism. All of these descriptions of salvation are partial. They do not intend to set forth everything necessary. If Romans 10:9 were a theologically precise formula of salvation, all mute people would be damned to hell, since Paul says not once but twice that one must confess Christ with one’s lips to be saved!)
@@georgeibrahim7945 I guess the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him didn't do what was necessary. Pax Christi.
@@jamessheffield4173 St. Dismas talked to God himself and died a martyr. Not the best example for "salvation in belief alone" haha
@@ratatoskr9366 ROMANS 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
@@jamessheffield4173 Exactly! That says the exact opposite of "faith alone" XD
So my feelings trump the pope. Got it. Can't have it both ways and selectively accept the authority of the Catholic church my Catholic friends. Why can't we just admit humans in the Christian tradition including the pope can be mistaken sometimes?
Only a fool would accept a pope as providing ultimate authority. The papal position is held by mere men. Only God, through Christ is totally trustworthy. Imagine stating that every ruler of Russia was a good and trustworthy leader!!!! Just like popes they have ranged from largely good to downright evil. When they break down the walls and rituals and child abuse to become true servants of God and the people then they can be seen as true leaders. Until then, just read your bible, pray and fellowship with fellow believers.
Papal Infallibility has only been invoked twice, and both times involved doctrinal points about Mary. What do you think you're talking about?
Papal infallibility is a blanket defense to the authority of the Catholic church and for Catholic approved teaching. Otherwise the gates of hell must have prevailed or so the faulty logic goes. So it matters and whether we are justified in believing it or justified in saying that certain egregious acts and teachings in history undermine it is a fair question and is one the is often sadly inadequately answered.
@@blamtasticful yes and how do u know someone has objectively gotten a message from Christ
Papal infallibility comes when the Pope speaks on doctrine and that happens after some serious prayer and study
He won’t just wake up and spout nonsense
@@jebe4563 Sounds like an unneccesary office to me then. You can't have it both ways. Either the infallibility of the pope is needed to guide the church else it would be lost and the gates of hell would prevail against it or the pope can be a huge cause of confusion in the body of believers but no biggie because he has only stated infallible things like two times. Pick one.
Double-predestination is one of the major reasons I stopped following Islam. Either you have no choice or you do. If you do, responsibility is on you. If not, do whatever you will. And now we have reached the fundamental doctrine of Original Sin.
The title should read " Are you saved if you are a Catholic !!"
Trent “I can’t accept” it’s not up to you. Alphonsus even speaks of this.
Sensus Fidelium it is however the case that one can be a part of the “invisible church,” while not being in the visible. As may be the case of the American Indian who was never capable of accepting Christ, or the ‘pagan saints’ that Benedict XVI speaks of. But yes, I can’t accept, is not a very good respond.
@@sebastianfuentes63 that kills all missionary zeal. Why go evangelize the native world, if we let them be completely ignorant of Christ then they might have better chances of being saved if we introduced them to the Christ, all they have to do is be nice to people, live the golden rule and they got a shot. St. Francis Xavier and the early Jesuits would have had little motivation to do what they did, that incredible sacrifice, if they thought all of Asia was part of the invisible church and they were saved being good Buddhists or good, nice people. This invisible church argument makes zero sense, they're either agnostic, atheist, or they are worshiping demonic entities, how does God save someone in that situation? We do not know the ways of God, and in that there is hope. But for all intents and purposes, we HAVE TO live our lives with the understanding that they are not saved, or else everything we stand for falls apart, which we are already seeing. There are really crappy realities in this world, and that is just one of them. It's on US to bring the gospel to them, because their soul is at stake otherwise, and our souls are at stake by extension of that, through our fear and laziness to bring it to them. I'm pretty sure that is how we understood things before modernism.
@@PontoLyone I think this is more referring to those baptized but outside the Catholic Church, not those outside the faith. Charity demands us to bring the Gospel to them regardless of the factors we can not have knowledge on. Missionary zeal is a strong utilitarian reason to have that, but it does not itself mean that is the case. To say that God could not save them also is not an option as that implies a limit upon God's authority and/capability that can only be applied to limited beings. Might these people be saved? Might they have invincible ignorance? Maybe, and highly unlikely given human sinfulness. The only way to ensure a knowable chance at salvation is within the walls of Holy Mother Church. Regardless of the details, the fact is that God gave us a mandate to proclaim thr Gospel. For me, that ought be reason enough.
Sebastian Fuentes B XVI, and every pope, isn’t infallible in opinions. There’s no ‘pagan saints’. There are saints & there are people that aren’t saints. If they are seeking the 1 true God God will make it apparent to them but if they aren’t well ignorance doesn’t save.
I’m speaking directly about Quanto Conficiamour moerore, lumen gentium, and gaudium et spes which write that one does not need to be in the visible church to be saved. Yet all do need to be saved by the grace of Christ, I am not denying that.
Feeneyism is a heresy that says that one needs to be visibly and officially associated with the church to be saved.
Anyone who claims that only Roman Catholics are the true Body of Christ and the only "saved" people, is embracing a doctrine of demons contrary to true Biblical doctrine. The salvation of mankind has been CLEARLY laid out in the New Testament books of the Bible with no imperative on the believer to join a specific denomination. ( At the point of conversion, the believer becomes a member of the greater "Body of Christ".) With that said, it is important to point out that there are several churches that teach a false Christ - including a counterfeit gospel i.e. Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.. It is almost guaranteed that the members of these sects are NOT Christians and not members of the Body of Christ. Furthermore, it is also important to point out that many true Christian denominations are guilty of teaching some "Extra Biblical" and even a little "Anti-Christian" doctrine ( "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me." Rev 3: 15-20. The True Church is the Body of Christ. The True Church is not the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist Church, the Lutheran Church, nor the Greek Orthodox Church; the True Church is the body of believers within the church! Solus Christus - Veritas vos liberabit !
St Jerome in 420 said their is no salvation outside Catholic Church.
That was even before protestantism
It has been 2000 years, that have gone by now, since Jesus told His apostles to go a preach the gospel to the world and teach them. In that time, the pioneers came to the new world. Since the gospel has been taken to new worlds, as history records, are you saying, that the gospel has not been preached around the world? Or some tribe has never been touched by the gospel? Just curious.
God is merciful, they will be judge by their hearts. Were they kind. Did they love their neighbour... By the very stds we will be judge on. We can have all the sacraments and not live a Christian life. We are all the more richer for having the grace of the sacraments but we have to do our part for salvation
I'm a protestant, who have been exposed to Catholic apologetics, and now doubt catholicism even more. Prayers are appreciated.
LOL
Being "exposed " is one thing, by whom another. Do your own study and be exposed by a catholic who know their faith, practise it and know what they're talking about. Not to a poorly catechised catholic - there are many. Then you make an informed decision for yourself. If then protestanism is still, no problem but don't let a protestants expose or teach you about the Catholic faith
You are mocking a commenter
Interesting that in John 4: 20-24 Jesus told the woman at the well it did not matter where we worship, so long as we worship in spirit and truth. Catholics should read their Bible, instead of listening to their church.
They spoke of predestination. Yet I dont know if they spoke about the point of the video title?
It's call of the Lord, His ways are not our ways but; did He created His Church for nothing? Did He instituted the Holy Eucharist for nothing? Did He evangelize and reminded us to Repent and be Baptized because the Kingdom of God for nothing? If we read btween the line, we can read RCC.
When the Warning and Miracle comes. Millions will convert to Catholic. CATHOLIC WILL RECOGNIZE TO THE WORLD AS ONE TRUE CHURCH.
That would be interesting. But I doubt it.
All who don't commit the unpardonable, are eligible for salvation, or Jesus is not the Christ. Scripture wasn't even mentioned here until 6:33. No wonder the Catholic church is known as the mother harlot of false churches. So much bad doctrine without scriptural authority.
Elton Ron the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church...
@@ianbrown7066 the Bible being a product of the catholic church does not mean that the catholic church has not strayed away from the truth, which started with them.
all true--but the normal way people are to be saved is formal membership(which is why we need to convert/evangelize) in the Church...so objectively you need to be Catholic to be saved. however there are exceptions such as invincible ignorance. As Pius IX says God knows their hearts...so if they have the virtue of the faith and they would believe the truth if they knew it God may give them a chance before they die
The "gentiles" in Romans = the House of Israel scattered among the nations. Take a Greek parallel Bible and look up all the Old Testament verses Paul is referencing to make His case, specifically in Romans 9-11 and 15, and you will see that, just as Acts 9 actually says, Paul was fulfilling his commission as the apostle to go among the nations to convert the scattered tribes of Israel back to God under the new covenant of Jesus Christ, just as God foretold through His prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, etc) to whom Paul is referring.
I think you talk yourself into a corner when you say Christ is mostly needed for salvation but not always...because if He is not THE way....then why should I go to mass, why should I go to confession, why should I even be a Christian...I can blame abandoning the faith on my parents, on poor catechisis, on a predator priest, on the idol worshipping Pope and God will understand and save me anyway...
For all who know him to be the way, He is needed. You cannot do an evil thing, knowing it is evil and freely choosing it, and expect that it's okay. For those who could not have known Him, He is needed, too, but not in the way we typically conceive.
You should follow and love God because He deserves these things and because it is the right thing to do. Think less on what you'll get out if it.
@@ryanmayfield6231 Evangelizing is still important, even if we don't think in terms of 'if this man is not baptized with water into the RCC, then he will certainly go to Hell, barring some rare and extraordinary act of God.' But to me, the knowledge that God is so loving that he will likely save those who always tried their best to be good and avoid evil makes sharing his message more beautiful and important.
So, to be short, I'd say that the possibility of being saved in ignorance doesn't harm evangelizing much or at all because
1. this makes God appear more loving and merciful and makes me want to spread His word more!
2. Others might well be more happy to accept such a loving and fair God
3. Christ is assuredly necessary for salvation and membership in and adherence to the RCC seems to be the best way to find Him and avoid Evil.
4. Perhaps most importantly, we are called to love God more than anything, including our very families. Christ said that 'he who does not 'hate' [in comparison to the love one has for God] his own father...wife...children...life should not follow Him [or will find it very difficult to do so]. Therefore, I should spread the word of God because I love God and because that's what He wants me to do. It is, simply put, the right thing to do.
Final thought: If I were convicted that only as a member of the Roman Catholic Church does one have ANY chance to avoid Hell, it would be almost impossible to do ANYTHING other than stand on a soapbox and scream about Jesus until the day I died. But is this the level of evangelizing we are called to do? I'm not sure anyone has taught that; we are called to evangelize and serve and sacrifice much, even, potentially, our lives. But the soapbox isn't typical, right? I try to evangelize online and by wearing a cross and by talking to friends about my faith as much as I organically can. Since death and soapbox are not levels of heroism that have ever been expected by all, I might argue that implies a lot of us accept that many non-Catholics might well be saved, too. I don't buy the claim that all are saved, but I can certainly see how very many might be.
You have unmasked the errors these modern speakers hold.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus
Yes
With what do we come to God and say it’s unfair that He doesn’t reveal Himself to some? Is salvation a right to be demanded? Ok is the opportunity of a salvation of grace a right to be demanded? If so then I don’t see how it’s by grace
I have never seen such false claims and delusional believes as I have read in this comments. Are you really asking the question if people can be safe without the Catholic Church? Since when did the Catholic Church become the exclusive body of Christ? The body of Christ isn’t the Catholic Church stop this delusion. They maybe people who are part of the body of Christ in the Catholic Church as in all over the world. I have never felt so disgusted as of this claims. Sounds pretty similar to the Pharisees.
Christ started a Church, not Churches. There is one body of Christ, and that body of Christ is the Church.
@Eli Sheets “He was a Jew who wouldn’t be praying to Mary”. That’s funny, because intertestimental Jewish literature says that the Jews believed in praying to Saints and angels in heaven, and that the Saints and angels in heaven could hear our prayers and would pray to God for them. There is no record of anybody ever condemning this practice. And lest you say that this practice is nowhere found in scripture, some of the books that describe this practice (such as Tobit, Baruch, and 2 Maccabees) were regarded as scripture by the earliest Christians, and are still regarded as scripture by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Oriental Churches, and the Assyrian Church. They were in the Bible of all Christians until the Protestant heretics removed them in the 16th century.
@Eli Sheets
Many Jews accepted these books as scripture before the Jewish canon was finalized in the late first century. Ethiopian Jews still accept them today. And even if you want to deny this basic historical fact, these books were written by JEWS. Meaning that they contain JEWISH beliefs.
And the earliest Christians were Torah observant? Is that why the Apostles did away with circumcision and dietary restrictions in the book of Acts?
What kind of God would reject people just because they are not Catholic?
What kind of god would reject _anyone_ ? The answer is, an evil one who doesn't care if people spend eternity in suffering.
@@MichaelG485 Evil by what standard?
I would love to see Trent on Bill Maher's show. Likelihood is low, but I'm praying.
@@joemen3332
He got whooped by a guy trained in apologetics on his own show! I don’t know if he was Catholic or not but he spanked Maher.
It all depends- does the "narrow gate" Jesus talks about represent Jesus Christ or the pope? I can see why catholics want to believe that they are the exclusive gatekeepers of salvation, but that isn't anywhere close to what the scriptures say. I can quote verse after verse from the Word about how a person is saved, and not one single one makes any mention of the catholic church. Not one.
I'm not saying it isn't good to be catholic. But if you have doubts, pray in the name of Jesus Christ for the Holy Spirit to enter you and guide you and try reading the Word of God. Many of you will be surprised.
The pope is not a gate. The pope is only the representative of Christ on earth. We don't go to the pope for salvation, we go to Jesus. The pope is just "the manager" of the church.
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha I'm glad we are in 100% agreement. We aren't saved by belief in the pope or joining the catholic church. We are saved through Christ alone. Cheers mate
@@xrendezv0usx But the Catholic Church does not teach that anyways. So what's your point?
@@xrendezv0usx We are saved by Christ through the Church. Christ is not limited by the Church, but it is the entity which he gives us to find salvation in. If he wanted salvation only through him, why did he give the Apostles Apostolic authority over many things, including the ability to forgive sins? If he wanted salvation to be through him alone, he would have name all who followed him his Apostles.
From my experiences with Catholics AND protestants, my gut feeling is that not everyone who is Catholic will get to Heaven, but most of the people in Heaven will be Catholic...with some exceptions.
The only people who will be in heaven are people who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit after having put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. No matter if you are catholic or protestant, you have to be born again and be a child of God.
Why?
@@germaan1 yes, but you have to be Catholic.
@@jackthayer1289 according to which verse in the bible?
@@germaan1 He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
[U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
[H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
You only need to know Christ to be saved, denominations are man made.
Your denominations are man made, the Church was founded by Christ Himself 2000yrs ago.
Yes. Denominations are made. So leave denominations and come to the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church.
@@nenabunena how do you know that the Catholic church hasn't became flawed over time? Not saying it has, but all branches of Christianity can trace their roots back 2000 years. As an LCMS Lutheran I find many Catholic views non biblical, but acknowledge I could be wrong and want to be saved. I think when in doubt I should trust the teachings of Jesus in the Bible over any human run church.
@@kylethomas2993 no. Protestantism is 500 years old or less. Orthodox 1000 years old. Coptic older. Only 1 Church was founded by Jesus and that's the Catholic Church with an unbroken line of popes. You'll notice the younger the church the less jewish it is bec some european or american who never knew JC in person just made some bs up
@@nenabunena orthodox is the same age as Roman Catholicism, why do the Catholics get that history and not the Orthodox. Additionally how do you know the church hasn't strayed away from the truth in 2000 years.
Doesn't the current catechism of the CC address this issue? I thought it said that 3 categories of people were potentially eligible for salvation. (1) Christians. (2) People of the other monotheistic faiths (Judaism, Islam). (3) People of goodwill.
Actually, the evangelical Protestant concept is the best. Accept Christ as your "personal Lord and Saviour", whatever that actually means in practice, then do as you like for the rest of your life. So long as you don't murder or steal, everything will be fine.
I love how he doesn't say Protestant will not be saved even though we rejected the teachings of Catholic. Maybe we are christian and can be saved even outside the church. Had many many debates with Catholic, and to them we are not only Protestant but will not be saved just because we are not in the church.
Not going to Heaven and not even having a good chance to go to Heaven is actually not an Injustice. Hell actually is Just. Heaven and salvation are gratuitous gifts of Mercy.
Hell is ONLY JUST for the likes of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Judas Iscariot, Aleister Crowley and Anton LaVey. These Human Demons will NEVER REPENT.
This channel has been very interesting. However, Catholicism is more challenging to to come up with conclusions because there are so many different authorities. For the Protestant faith, there is one authority. The Bible. We are not concerned with what the pope says or what the apocrypha says or what other Catholic authorities teach.
Protestants have one authority? Good joke really. Very funny.
I’ve always understood predestination as just God’s foreknowledge of our choice of His gift. If somebody was not given the gospel of Christ. Those people will be judged on the Beatitudes if you will.
IE the rich man and Lazarus
Another reason to evangelize is to give people the Gospel gives people the grace to live a close relationship with God during life and adds another evangelist.