Wow. I’ve been a Celtics fan since the 60s. But I’m glad Jerry West has been the league logo for so many years. On and off the court, as an executive or player, he is first class. West Virginia should be so proud of their native son.
If they want to replace West on the logo with a black player, make it Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Some say Michael Jordan. I say, Jordan's character was too self-serving. And still is even 20 years and more since his retirement. I saw West play in the Chicago Stadium several times late in his career. He was one those players who, you don't know what great means if you haven't seen him. I've said the same thing about Abdul-Jabbar in his Milwaukee days. If you didn't see him with the Bucks, you don't know what great means.
When he said Elgin Baylor was the first athletic superstar in the NBA Wilt Chamberlain immediately came to mind, but then I looked it up and realized Baylor was in the NBA before Wilt. 3/24/23
The more I see Jerry West on these type of interviews the more I come to respect the man as a human being. The words he used here were soft spoken, but powerful and coming from the heart. I think that streaming show (I think on HBOMAX - winning time) did such a disservice to him it should be banned or preceded with a disclaimer that says characters in this show are unlike any people you might think you recognize in this show.
Elgin had his knee issues, but what wasn't mentioned in this clip is that Elgin, during his career, had to spend two years in the Army. Think of what his stats would have been minus the service time, and minus the patella injuries. He was the most fun guy to watch, especially his scoop shots, spin shots, no-look shots, reverses, and his ability to 'hang in the air', which involved a fake and late release on his shot. They do it now, but the way he did it made it look like defying gravity. He also had this facial twitch that was as good as a fake. I'd rather watch Elgin than anyone - he was my basketball hero. You never knew exactly what he was going to do, but when he did it all you could say was that it was the best thing to do - and no one else could have done it. I wish there was more in the film archives - it's such a shame that so many things that he did on the court were undocumented. Jerry said Elgin was quiet, but that was only on the court when it was all business. Off the court he was a joker & a prankster. He also cheated at cards, if you could catch him. The Baylor/West combo was special.
My feelings exactly. Even with his stats he was a tremendous, unselfish team player. I started following him in my 6th grade year in 1955-56 while in grade school in Seattle. He was playing AAU ball and there was a lot of coverage in the local newspapers on him then, even before he commenced his play at Seattle U. I then moved to Portland and a local TV station carried some of the great games he played against the University of Portland, who had some very good players but they were no match for Elgin. I would have loved to have seen him play along side RC Owens when they were both at College of Idaho.
I grew up in Los Angeles in the early 60’s. Elgin Baylor was favorite player on the Lakers. In 1966, our 8th grade team was playing for the CYO Championship at the Sports Arena where the Lakers played at the time. Our first half was played before the Laker game, and our second half t half time. I was able to meet Elgin Baylor and Jerry West in the Locker Room! What a moment for a 14 year old boy! Oh…and we Won the Championship too!
@@lionheartmerrill1069 Amazing Talent! He actually SAVED the Laker Franchise. They were going under in Minneapolis until they Drafted Elgin out of Seattle U. That enabled the Franchise to get the Money to move to Los Angeles. Jerry West eluded to that when he was presented his Bronze Statue…He said this should be Elgin Baylor…
@@timothypatrickmurphy7118 My dad's company had Lakers season tickets. I saw Elgin in action many times at the Sports Arena & Forum. I listened to most every game on the radio with Chick Hearn's play by play. Those were the days my friend.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 Yes they were the Days! My Brother and I would listen to Chick on the radio. Ironically, in 1971 I did a National Pepsi Commercial and it ran on EVERY Laker Pregame Show for 6 Months! How Fortunate were we to have Chick Hearn and Vin Scully to listen to growing up!!! ❤️
@@timothypatrickmurphy7118 A commercial, awesome. I listened to Vinny all the time. I idolized Chick & Vinny & thought about becoming a play by play man but reality set in. I was on live TV at 7 -- The Popeye Show. I was a confident kid at the time but when Tom Hatten said "Come on Ricky look into the camera, everybody's watching you" things changed. The lights, camera & action scared me. I don't like cameras to this day & probably have mic fright too. Take care.
I was luck to be able to watch Jerry West on ktla5 with Chick Hearn. I've never seen a player win more games in crunch time than Mr. Clutch with a steal, rebound, assist or by his shot making ability.
I watched Elgin Baylor play against the University of Portland when he was at Seattle and I was a student at UOP. He dropped 60 against us that night. He was incredible at the College Level as well as in the NBA.
Elgin Baylor was already a superstar in college basketball. What he did in his NBA career is simply amazing, to say the least. Sadly, several NBA players turned sports pundits ignore Elgin’s exploits totally and think themselves better than several true NBA legends. Shameful and disgusting!
So true. Both the more recent NBA retirees (especially those who never competed against Elgin Baylor) and today's contemporary NBA reporters seem to view talent (thru biased lenses) as it reflects their own time not all time, even when they consider the GOAT. Smh
There is so much emphasis placed on athleticism today and with that being said, Elgin Baylor was extremely athletic before his injuries. He was a player that played above the rim in addition to being extremely quick. When you add in his creativeness, his expert timing, his soft touch, and his next level anticipation abilities, Elgin was a force on the basketball court. Elgin Baylor was truly a player ahead of his time. 💯
Very true. But the thing that made Elgin so special was not only was he supremely athletic, but he had tremendous fundamentals, a compete game, Elgin could do everything.
Out of all the players I’ve ever seen play, Elgin brought me the most joy to watch. My Elgin Baylor & Jerry West story was when the Lakers played an intra-squad game at my high school in 1965. It was actually a fundraiser for lights for the football field at Poly HS (one of our league rivals), Gail Goodrich’s Alma Mater. It was my junior year at San Fernando HS and our school was used because at the time our gym had one of the highest capacity gyms in the LA City school system. I think the tickets were $5 but I got in for free because I was on our school’s basketball team. At any rate I was on cloud 9 to be able to watch Elgin & Jerry up close and personal, Elgin’s team won and he scored 36 points without seemingly breaking a sweat. I’ll never forget a move Elgin made on a semi fast break when he went up for a layup against, I think it was “Bad News” Barnes, as Barnes went up for the block, Elgin brought the ball down as if to make an under hand shovel shot, then at the last second, on the way down whips the ball behind his back for a pass/assist to the other player on his team for the score! It was a sensational move that excited the crowd! I remember seeing players in person that I had only seen on TV, Darryl Imhoff, Gene Wiley, Gail, Leroy Ellis & Rudy LaRusso. I had the pleasure of playing once against Rudy LaRusso in 1972 he was 35 and I was 22 in 1972 at a high caliper league (I think it may have been the precursor to the summer pro league) at East LA College. He gave me a sharp elbow to the chest and although it hurt and I wasn’t happy about it I was still in awe of having the opportunity to play against him. In that same league I saw Paul Mowkeski & Sven Nater (both future 7’ pro players). I wasn’t nearly as good as most of those players but it was a heck of an experience.
Both Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain picked Elgin Baylor for their starting team, "that's respect!" Elgin was a creative genius on the court, future nba generations copied him and the whole of the basketball world should be grateful because without him, it's hard to believe that icon's like MJ or Magic would have existed and played in their era in the extraordinary manner they did. But then great sportsmen access the skill-sets of earlier players, especially when it was a no brainer for their physical prowess, you cannot teach height or killer instinct but a repertoire of past legends skills make a good player a icon, or a average player into a nba player!
@@RModillo @RModillo Wilt & Russell hadn't the need to copy anyone they had too many advantages physically, both are the top defenders of any era and Wilt was a finesse player with multiple skills, everyone after copied his fade-away or his finger-roll, even Kareems hook-shot was a adaption of wilts. Both Wilt and Bill didn't need to copy skills because Yes their was some very good players before and around in their era but numbers don't lie, they had the best over most players in their careers? Elgin wasn't copying anyone on the basketball court prior to going into the nba, he and Wilt played numerous games and everyone said, Wilt was unstoppable and Elgin was a creative genius who mesmerised the watchers with his abilities. Jerry west even said this about Elgin, " he used to watch something Elgin did and then spend hours trying to perfect it! " even Kobie Bryant watched a clip with Elgin and was very surprised to see a technique used by the modern nba that few can do today? Finally one of the five favourite players that Oscar Robinson loved to watch and unsurprisingly it was Elgin Baylor?
@@allistermcginlay6476 I don't know enough about basketball to appreciate completely what they did, but I would love to savor some of those Laker highlights. Especially knowing that the Celtics were even better. :D
@@RModillo Dr.J also added Connie Hawkins as 6th man to come in and sub at all 3 positions. I would add Stockton and Bird to round out the greatest team and I do mean team off all time.
@@allistermcginlay6476 I believe it was the 35th in NBA anniversary, might have been the 50th, but I really believe was the 35th. And Oscar was told that Bill Russell was named the greatest player today in NBA history. And Oscar was asked who do you think it should have been? Oscar replied "Elgin Baylor."
Tommy Hawkins, a jazz fan like myself, called Elgin Baylor the Charlie Parker of basketball. No one had ever heard anything like Parker before and nobody had ever seen anything like Baylor before.
I was blessed as a ten year old kid to watch Elgin Baylor countless times when he played for Seattle U, Elgin took them to the NCAA finals in 1958, he and Jerry West are both great players and classy individuals.
I absolutely was amazed by Elgin Baylor! And Jerry West was phenomenal! My Forgotten GOAT is John Havlicek. You should do a show on Hondo Havlicek. He was just incredible!
Havlicek is definitely forgotten these days. Started out as a sixth man. It was as if he never got tired running all day long. Was also drafted by the Cleveland Browns for wide receiver out of Ohio State. Obviously made the right decision with the Celtics. Lol
@@hull5768 did not know about the Browns! Players guarding Havlicek often referred to Hondo as "Having three lungs", he was so tireless for the whole game and wore defenders out
The game back then had more grace, fluidity, whatever you call it. Today guy's can hardly go to the basket without taking 3 steps (and NOT get called for it).
Even though Elgin was a perennial all star, a Hall of Famer snd voted one of the fifty greatest players of all time, I've always thought that he still doesn't get his due as how great he actually was. When the argument of the greatest players of all time comes up and guys name their top ten, Elgin's name isn't mentioned, which is absurd! When I'm naming the two greatest forwards to play, I'm naming Baylor and Bird
These guys aren't FORGOTTEN though... how about someone that no one ever brings up anymore? Like Paul Westphal? Charlie Scott? John Williamson? Louie Dampier? Purvis Short?
@@manny4552 them too, but I know some many young kids, teen and young adults who has no idea who jerry west is nor didn't know that he's a logo for the NBA, and other players who I think are forgotten, or people don't realize they were Superstars people like Grant Hill, Earl The Pearl Monroe, John havlicek is well, Bill Walton,
Elgin Baylor is a player that some folks tend to forget when they are talking about greats but he is also one who could play in today's game and be great. Not everyone would translate well...I'd love to see Maravich and Dominique Wilkins play in today's game. Think about Pistol Pete creating on the outside with today's defenses or the Human Highlight Film going to the hole when the other team can't just tackle him, like they did when he was playing back in the day.
Imagine Maurice Stokes, Oscar Robertson, Jack Twyman and Jerry Lucas on the same Cincinnati team all in their prime. Those four certainly would have challenged the Celtic dynasty in the 1960s.
I think it is true for great athletes in all sports. If you listen to Jack Nicklaus he will talk far more about the major championships that got away from him rather than the ones he won.
I was not great at all, but I remember the losses more than the wins, when we were close to winning, especially if I made the error that lost the game. I was very competitive. So I understand.
Reminds me of Tony Romo, who'd pull of 3 miracles to keep Dallas in games, but would always be labeled a "choker" when he failed to produce 4 miracles. Tony wasn't why Dallas lost. Tony was why Dallas kept it close.
38 18 that's a wtf? jaw dropping stat if i ever heard one. I was also too young to witness him in his prime. Only a couple of season against the Thurmond Warriors, when I was just starting to play and watch, and was too clueless to recognize greatness. How this for a starting 5 of what ifs Dominique, Elgin, Nate, Pete M., Mitch Richmond they could beat MJ Jabbar West LeBron Bird a couple of times out of 7
The one statistic working against Elgin is his career field goal percentage (43.1%). When you consider how many shots he took, this is an important stat.
Yes, I have often wondered about that. Was he an amazing offensive rebounder who would keep doing put-backs until he scored? If so, that would partially depress his shooting percentage.
Seattle U played Regis at Everett, WA, and we watched the game. Elgin came out and the PA announcer said "Elgin Baylor has tied the Memorial Coliseum record with 43 points tonight." Coach Castellani put Baylor back in; he took his shot from 'way outside of what would become the three-point line, and jogged off the floor as the basketball went through the net. The crowd roared in approval, and the PA man got to revise his previous announcement. Elgin played at another level.
So, I am 69 years old and lived in Fairmont West Virginia at the time. Either he went to WVU or he was from Morgantown, but he was featured on the Wheaties box. Talked about he wouldnt go into dinner until he could hit a 100 free throws in a row.
Jerry West would have been the best 3 point shooter if he played in the NBA, I saw him play. He was the best 2 guard, shooting guard in the history of the NBA.
Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson - people do not talk about those two players enough. Oscar Robertson - I remember as a 12 year old mimicking the players. He is one player I would not want to be hit by or receive a body blow from.
My Starting 5 NBA All Time would be Robertson, Jordan, Bird, Irving and Chamberlain. On My Bench I've got Unseld, Hayes, Malone, Johnson and West, with Walton, Barkley, Havlicek, Frazier and Monroe. I've only picked players that I saw during their playing days. That's why Russell isn't on My Team. I saw Jabbar play but wasn't a fan of his Defense. With the Centers I picked, I've got Scoring, Rebounding, Passing and Defense covered. No Modern Day players cause I'm not a fan of Today's game. But My Team would beat any Team of Players from the last 23 years.
I wish I could have seen Elgin play. But thankfully, very thankfully I did get to see Bird play. And a few other amazing talents. I also got to see Manute Bol play against Boston College. That was something else.
One of the biggest problems is that there's not nearly as much film of these players from the past as there is just huge monstrous amounts of film clips of the present day players and these younger guys today are much more high flyers the defense is probably worse today than it was back in the day But greatness is greatness in In the era because it requires consistency and that's not easy in professional sports... There are many many Great players from the past like Jerry West Elgin Baylor Rick Barry or Doctor J Moses Malone Bobby Jones Andrew Tony Kevin mckevin mccale Larry Bird....Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell George Mikkkkkkan Bob Cousy John Havlicek Dave Cowans Charles Barkley Hakeem...and many more
I agree with Elgin Baylor and would add Bob Petit who won the 7h game against Boston with 2 bandaged broken hands as he put 50 points on the board for St Louis Hawks. I doubt anyone has ever heard of or seen since
Zeke...forgive me, Mr. West...you are Logo (and more) during and after your playing days and Elgin is NOT forgotten and will be remembered for more than his hang time as long as bb is celebrated. Looking back, I regret his Seattle team couldn't whup Rupp's Wildcats in the 1958 NCAA finals.
Im not a LeBron Stan but i dont think Baylor could run the offense/distribute/facilitate they way LeBron does. Both are well rounded but James can run Point Forward at his size. Baylor is probably the better scorer.
Zeke from Cabin Creek ! I watched these Lakers when I was in the military out on the West coast. Elgin in the lane...hanging for an eternity before making the shot!
Strictly limiting the discussion to "superstars",aside from Elgin, I would say Pete Maravich or my personal idol/hero Connie Hawkins although the Hawk is a special case because most of his best years were behind him by the time they finally let him into the NBA.
My first NBA game, I was about 10 years old. My Dad told me I could go stand on the floor during warmup. After a short time I got anxious for game to start. Standing next to me was a very tall gentleman in a suit. I politely asked if he had the time. He very slowly looked down at me and then very slowly pulled his hand out of his pocket and looked at his watch and gave me the time. I said thank you. I then turned and walked back to my seat (2nd row from floor at Boston Garden). As I approached I saw my Dad with a huge grin and I said what’s so funny? He replied, do you know who that was? I said no. He said Elgin Baylor! 😃
....also earning nominations are Bob Cousy -the godfather of modern ball handling and Bob Petit who, maybe along with Elgin,perfected modern jump shooting on the move techniques. Perhaps not quite at the level as the other guys but seemingly forgotten is Nate Archibald.
Had a feeling before watching JW was going to say Elgin Baylor. I'd put Elvin Hayes, Alonzo Mourning, Bobby Jones, Walter Davis, Andrew Toney. Dave Cowens, Connie Hawkins, George Gervin, Mark Price and several others in that group, too.
Two things: 1. If Michael Jordan could watch all of Elgins highlights (the ones the NBA missed included) he'd be singing E.B.'s praises as well; 2. If a young Wilt had been on those early, losing finals Laker teams with Jerry n Elgin, (to the Celtics) methinks L.A. would've bagged more than a couple of Championships instead of 8 straight (9 out of 10 consec yrs) by Boston. Lakers would have "jelled" earlier & better.....than late 60's version.
The Lakers Center Ray Felix, after that loss, stood up with a rallying statement: "Don't worry fellows will get them tomorrow!".he didn't realize it was the seventh game..lol
Jerry west was a great player I remember BOSTON Celtics DEREK SANDERS made wild baskets clutch baskets 1968 69 game 3 and BOSTON came from 0-2 game series I started to cry like a little baby why the LAKERS couldn't win the NBA championship it was because the GREAT COACH PLAYER HALL OF FAMER BILL RUSSELL never be player like him TRUE CHAMPION and I'm a LAKERS FAN ask LAKERS ex player Celtics Don Nelson..wild basket at the end LAKERS fire coach Bill Vanbrekoff after that.
I saw most of the players mentioned below and was a frustrated Laker fan in the Jerry West /Elgin Baylor era. But I've noticed something in looking at film from that era -- the players couldn't handle the dribbling with their off hand (normally left) not as nearly well as today's players. Do most of you agree with that?
2:27 Partial year - Elgin didn't play enough games that season to qualify for the record books, or he'd have the 4'th highest scoring season (in PPG, 0.1 behind Wilt's #3 season) of all time. I think he needed *2* more games. But he would NOT have won the scoring championship that season, as that was Wilt's 50.4 season of fame.
That one hurt most of all. The 100 point game college player misses an NBA championship shot. I'm sure he'd trade 2 to make 98 and get an NBA championship. I wish West had taken that shot, too.
Funny that so many claim Kareem is a GOAT and yet he was 6 wins and 15 losses against Willis Reed from 1969 to 74 even though the Bucks won 304 to the Knicks 266. Reed was hurt so badly from 1971 on only playing in 99 regular season games in 3 years and yet the last two times that Jabbar played Reed in November of 1973, Reed held Jabbar to 18 for 40 shooting for 45% and 44 points in 86 minutes. Reed held Jabbar to 50% shooting in 21 games and for his career Kareem shot 56%. Ewing played the old bald Jabbar who shot over 58% against Ewing and Reed played the 30 and 16 Jabbar and held him to 50% shooting! Maybe a little respect for the 1960's players!
Jerry West was unstoppable, an all-time shooter who played well defensively too. 1st Team G with Oscar, All-Time NBA Team.
Wow. I’ve been a Celtics fan since the 60s. But I’m glad Jerry West has been the league logo for so many years. On and off the court, as an executive or player, he is first class. West Virginia should be so proud of their native son.
If they want to replace West on the logo with a black player, make it Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Some say Michael Jordan. I say, Jordan's character was too self-serving. And still is even 20 years and more since his retirement. I saw West play in the Chicago Stadium several times late in his career. He was one those players who, you don't know what great means if you haven't seen him. I've said the same thing about Abdul-Jabbar in his Milwaukee days. If you didn't see him with the Bucks, you don't know what great means.
We are very proud of Jerry.
When he said Elgin Baylor was the first athletic superstar in the NBA Wilt Chamberlain immediately came to mind, but then I looked it up and realized Baylor was in the NBA before Wilt.
3/24/23
The more I see Jerry West on these type of interviews the more I come to respect the man as a human being. The words he used here were soft spoken, but powerful and coming from the heart. I think that streaming show (I think on HBOMAX - winning time) did such a disservice to him it should be banned or preceded with a disclaimer that says characters in this show are unlike any people you might think you recognize in this show.
Elgin had his knee issues, but what wasn't mentioned in this clip is that Elgin, during his career, had to spend two years in the Army. Think of what his stats would have been minus the service time, and minus the patella injuries. He was the most fun guy to watch, especially his scoop shots, spin shots, no-look shots, reverses, and his ability to 'hang in the air', which involved a fake and late release on his shot. They do it now, but the way he did it made it look like defying gravity. He also had this facial twitch that was as good as a fake. I'd rather watch Elgin than anyone - he was my basketball hero. You never knew exactly what he was going to do, but when he did it all you could say was that it was the best thing to do - and no one else could have done it. I wish there was more in the film archives - it's such a shame that so many things that he did on the court were undocumented. Jerry said Elgin was quiet, but that was only on the court when it was all business. Off the court he was a joker & a prankster. He also cheated at cards, if you could catch him. The Baylor/West combo was special.
My feelings exactly. Even with his stats he was a tremendous, unselfish team player. I started following him in my 6th grade year in 1955-56 while in grade school in Seattle. He was playing AAU ball and there was a lot of coverage in the local newspapers on him then, even before he commenced his play at Seattle U. I then moved to Portland and a local TV station carried some of the great games he played against the University of Portland, who had some very good players but they were no match for Elgin. I would have loved to have seen him play along side RC Owens when they were both at College of Idaho.
Wearing those converse chuck Taylor all stars who wouldn't have knee injuries. I wore them growing up in the 60s
Great post
0 rings. so he is not an all time great. Jordashians taught me that logic
I grew up in Los Angeles in the early 60’s. Elgin Baylor was favorite player on the Lakers. In 1966, our 8th grade team was playing for the CYO Championship at the Sports Arena where the Lakers played at the time. Our first half was played before the Laker game, and our second half t half time. I was able to meet Elgin Baylor and Jerry West in the Locker Room! What a moment for a 14 year old boy! Oh…and we Won the Championship too!
Great story. I was born in LA/1950. Elgin is my all time favorite player.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 Amazing Talent! He actually SAVED the Laker Franchise. They were going under in Minneapolis until they Drafted Elgin out of Seattle U. That enabled the Franchise to get the Money to move to Los Angeles. Jerry West eluded to that when he was presented his Bronze Statue…He said this should be Elgin Baylor…
@@timothypatrickmurphy7118 My dad's company had Lakers season tickets. I saw Elgin in action many times at the Sports Arena & Forum. I listened to most every game on the radio with Chick Hearn's play by play. Those were the days my friend.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 Yes they were the Days! My Brother and I would listen to Chick on the radio. Ironically, in 1971 I did a National Pepsi Commercial and it ran on EVERY Laker Pregame Show for 6 Months! How Fortunate were we to have Chick Hearn and Vin Scully to listen to growing up!!! ❤️
@@timothypatrickmurphy7118 A commercial, awesome. I listened to Vinny all the time. I idolized Chick & Vinny & thought about becoming a play by play man but reality set in. I was on live TV at 7 -- The Popeye Show. I was a confident kid at the time but when Tom Hatten said "Come on Ricky look into the camera, everybody's watching you" things changed. The lights, camera & action scared me. I don't like cameras to this day & probably have mic fright too. Take care.
50 years later the dude still wishes he had the ball in his hand! Talk about having that fire
You ought to read his autobiography WEST BY WEST. It is by far the best jock biography I have ever read.
@@mikedineen7857 I have 👍
I was luck to be able to watch Jerry West on ktla5 with Chick Hearn. I've never seen a player win more games in crunch time than Mr. Clutch with a steal, rebound, assist or by his shot making ability.
@@rodneysmith247 I grew up in WV not far from where he grew up. Always loved him.
Yes. Elgin was amazing. I remember watching him and Jerry. What a pair! It's so good to hear Jerry talk about him as a human.
I watched Elgin Baylor play against the University of Portland when he was at Seattle and I was a student at UOP. He dropped 60 against us that night. He was incredible at the College Level as well as in the NBA.
I once spoke to an old timer named Dale Stewart, who guarded Elgin when Elgin was at Seattle. He told some interesting anecdotes of that night.
Jerry West was one of the best basketball player and a beautiful person....God Bless.
Elgin Baylor was already a superstar in college basketball. What he did in his NBA career is simply amazing, to say the least. Sadly, several NBA players turned sports pundits ignore Elgin’s exploits totally and think themselves better than several true NBA legends. Shameful and disgusting!
So true. Both the more recent NBA retirees (especially those who never competed against Elgin Baylor) and today's contemporary NBA reporters seem to view talent (thru biased lenses) as it reflects their own time not all time, even when they consider the GOAT. Smh
so glad Jerry was able to win one championship after all those close calls-------one of the greatest competitors ever.
he needed wilt to win
wasn't he playin against plumbers and fireman? JJ Reddick said so.
@@patek9789 and vice versa
@@dusttaker Reddick was a plumber himself
@@alberg6290 nope wilt won before he had jerry.
There is so much emphasis placed on athleticism today and with that being said, Elgin Baylor was extremely athletic before his injuries. He was a player that played above the rim in addition to being extremely quick. When you add in his creativeness, his expert timing, his soft touch, and his next level anticipation abilities, Elgin was a force on the basketball court. Elgin Baylor was truly a player ahead of his time. 💯
💯
Very true. But the thing that made Elgin so special was not only was he supremely athletic, but he had tremendous fundamentals, a compete game, Elgin could do everything.
Although Baylor never won a championship, he was a great player, one of many that never won it all!
why the debushere elgin batles were so fuckin epic other thing bout the knicks black and white kicking ass being great together as brothers
Peace! Elgin was one of the very best player of all-time! Rest In 💥 Power: Elgin..props to the Logo.
elgin, dr j, bird, malone...great forwards.
Part of the logo.
Out of all the players I’ve ever seen play, Elgin brought me the most joy to watch. My Elgin Baylor & Jerry West story was when the Lakers played an intra-squad game at my high school in 1965. It was actually a fundraiser for lights for the football field at Poly HS (one of our league rivals), Gail Goodrich’s Alma Mater. It was my junior year at San Fernando HS and our school was used because at the time our gym had one of the highest capacity gyms in the LA City school system. I think the tickets were $5 but I got in for free because I was on our school’s basketball team. At any rate I was on cloud 9 to be able to watch Elgin & Jerry up close and personal, Elgin’s team won and he scored 36 points without seemingly breaking a sweat. I’ll never forget a move Elgin made on a semi fast break when he went up for a layup against, I think it was “Bad News” Barnes, as Barnes went up for the block, Elgin brought the ball down as if to make an under hand shovel shot, then at the last second, on the way down whips the ball behind his back for a pass/assist to the other player on his team for the score! It was a sensational move that excited the crowd! I remember seeing players in person that I had only seen on TV, Darryl Imhoff, Gene Wiley, Gail, Leroy Ellis & Rudy LaRusso. I had the pleasure of playing once against Rudy LaRusso in 1972 he was 35 and I was 22 in 1972 at a high caliper league (I think it may have been the precursor to the summer pro league) at East LA College. He gave me a sharp elbow to the chest and although it hurt and I wasn’t happy about it I was still in awe of having the opportunity to play against him. In that same league I saw Paul Mowkeski & Sven Nater (both future 7’ pro players). I wasn’t nearly as good as most of those players but it was a heck of an experience.
Great story!
Nice
As good as there will ever be. College, Olympics, NBA player, greatest GM ever! So grateful for who he is and everything he gave to LA fans.
I saw ELGIN play twice in person ,he was the REAL DEAL ! Great MID RANGE SHOOTER & Underrated rebounder.
Elgin was a GREAT rebounder!! Look up who is the all time leading rebounder in Laker history. You will be surprised!
@@jamesspalten5977 GOOD INFO JAMES .
Both Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain picked Elgin Baylor for their starting team, "that's respect!"
Elgin was a creative genius on the court, future nba generations copied him and the whole of the basketball world should be grateful because without him, it's hard to believe that icon's like MJ or Magic would have existed and played in their era in the extraordinary manner they did.
But then great sportsmen access the skill-sets of earlier players, especially when it was a no brainer for their physical prowess, you cannot teach height or killer instinct but a repertoire of past legends skills make a good player a icon, or a average player into a nba player!
As did Dr J. --- Russell, Chamberlain, Baylor, West, Robertson were his top 5.
@@RModillo
@RModillo Wilt & Russell hadn't the need to copy anyone they had too many advantages physically, both are the top defenders of any era and Wilt was a finesse player with multiple skills, everyone after copied his fade-away or his finger-roll, even Kareems hook-shot was a adaption of wilts.
Both Wilt and Bill didn't need to copy skills because Yes their was some very good players before and around in their era but numbers don't lie, they had the best over most players in their careers?
Elgin wasn't copying anyone on the basketball court prior to going into the nba, he and Wilt played numerous games and everyone said, Wilt was unstoppable and Elgin was a creative genius who mesmerised the watchers with his abilities.
Jerry west even said this about Elgin, " he used to watch something Elgin did and then spend hours trying to perfect it! " even Kobie Bryant watched a clip with Elgin and was very surprised to see a technique used by the modern nba that few can do today?
Finally one of the five favourite players that Oscar Robinson loved to watch and unsurprisingly it was Elgin Baylor?
@@allistermcginlay6476 I don't know enough about basketball to appreciate completely what they did, but I would love to savor some of those Laker highlights. Especially knowing that the Celtics were even better. :D
@@RModillo Dr.J also added Connie Hawkins as 6th man to come in and sub at all 3 positions. I would add Stockton and Bird to round out the greatest team and I do mean team off all time.
@@allistermcginlay6476 I believe it was the 35th in NBA anniversary, might have been the 50th, but I really believe was the 35th. And Oscar was told that Bill Russell was named the greatest player today in NBA history. And Oscar was asked who do you think it should have been? Oscar replied "Elgin Baylor."
I remember watching Jerry West play in the 70s those were GREAT NBA TIMES. THANKS Jerry for the memories
I grew up in So Cal in the 1960s watching and rooting for the Lakers. Elgin was amazing, Mr. Hangtime!
Tommy Hawkins, a jazz fan like myself, called Elgin Baylor the Charlie Parker of basketball. No one had ever heard anything like Parker before and nobody had ever seen anything like Baylor before.
I was blessed as a ten year old kid to watch Elgin Baylor countless times when he played for Seattle U, Elgin took them to the NCAA finals in 1958, he and Jerry West are both great players and classy individuals.
Elgin defied gravity as he hung up in the air. I saw him play live many times. He and Jerry were my favourites back then.
I absolutely was amazed by Elgin Baylor! And Jerry West was phenomenal! My Forgotten GOAT is John Havlicek. You should do a show on Hondo Havlicek. He was just incredible!
Havlicek is definitely forgotten these days. Started out as a sixth man. It was as if he never got tired running all day long. Was also drafted by the Cleveland Browns for wide receiver out of Ohio State. Obviously made the right decision with the Celtics. Lol
@@hull5768 did not know about the Browns! Players guarding Havlicek often referred to Hondo as "Having three lungs", he was so tireless for the whole game and wore defenders out
The game back then had more grace, fluidity, whatever you call it. Today guy's can hardly go to the basket without taking 3 steps (and NOT get called for it).
Even though Elgin was a perennial all star, a Hall of Famer snd voted one of the fifty greatest players of all time, I've always thought that he still doesn't get his due as how great he actually was. When the argument of the greatest players of all time comes up and guys name their top ten, Elgin's name isn't mentioned, which is absurd! When I'm naming the two greatest forwards to play, I'm naming Baylor and Bird
Rick Barry, Roger Brown, and Julius Erving too
Preach
@@HiNRGboyI saw Rick and Julius. Thanks to YT, I've seen Roger's greatness, too. And he was just that! Rick, Dr J and Gervin will tell you.
I wasn't alive for Elgin's career, but judging by the film and the statistics, he is like a hybrid fusion of Jordan, Barkley and LeBron.
Dr J
His hang time was incomparable. On drives to the hoop, he'd still be in the air while his defender had already landed on the hardwood!
Jerry West is the most underrated forgotten superstar of all time
John havlicek
These guys aren't FORGOTTEN though... how about someone that no one ever brings up anymore? Like Paul Westphal? Charlie Scott? John Williamson? Louie Dampier? Purvis Short?
@@manny4552 them too, but I know some many young kids, teen and young adults who has no idea who jerry west is nor didn't know that he's a logo for the NBA, and other players who I think are forgotten, or people don't realize they were Superstars people like Grant Hill, Earl The Pearl Monroe, John havlicek is well, Bill Walton,
Moses Malone
@@jongordon7914 Jerry West is certainly remembered by anyone that watched him.
As for the others listed, only Moses was on his elite level.
If not for Baylor, there would have been no Jordan. Baylor changed basketball from a horizontal game to a vertical game.
Love Jerry West interviews.
Elgin Baylor is a player that some folks tend to forget when they are talking about greats but he is also one who could play in today's game and be great. Not everyone would translate well...I'd love to see Maravich and Dominique Wilkins play in today's game. Think about Pistol Pete creating on the outside with today's defenses or the Human Highlight Film going to the hole when the other team can't just tackle him, like they did when he was playing back in the day.
Thank you, thank you for your respect of these fantastic players and I agree with you 💯.
My favorite I saw play live was Pistol Pete. My favorite I only saw on film was one of his coaches, the great innovator Elgin Baylor.
Imagine Maurice Stokes, Oscar Robertson, Jack Twyman and Jerry Lucas on the same Cincinnati team all in their prime. Those four certainly would have challenged the Celtic dynasty in the 1960s.
Facts 💯💯💯💯💯💯
I find it amazing that these athletes are haunted by championship losses even after so many years
I think it is true for great athletes in all sports. If you listen to Jack Nicklaus he will talk far more about the major championships that got away from him rather than the ones he won.
I believe the great hate losing more than they love winning.
I was not great at all, but I remember the losses more than the wins, when we were close to winning, especially if I made the error that lost the game. I was very competitive.
So I understand.
John Havlichek and Jo, Jo White of the Boston Celtics, are two greats that are not talked about much either.
Reminds me of Tony Romo, who'd pull of 3 miracles to keep Dallas in games, but would always be labeled a "choker" when he failed to produce 4 miracles. Tony wasn't why Dallas lost. Tony was why Dallas kept it close.
I use to listen to Lakers games on the radio. Great guard, Baylor, Goodrich, and the rest against Russell's Celtic's team. Great games.
38 18 that's a wtf? jaw dropping stat if i ever heard one. I was also too young to witness him in his prime. Only a couple of season against the Thurmond Warriors, when I was just starting to play and watch, and was too clueless to recognize greatness.
How this for a starting 5 of what ifs Dominique, Elgin, Nate, Pete M., Mitch Richmond
they could beat MJ Jabbar West LeBron Bird a couple of times out of 7
I was thinking Havlicek as being the most forgotten star, but it’s tough to argue against Elgin.
See that, Elgin is so sadly forgotten I even forgot to include him on the most forgotten list lol.
Both are.
No way - Havlicek is a GOD in Boston
Yeah havlicek was a beast... Great all around player
@@brianfergus839 as well he should be
Bill Russell caused a lot of heartache amongst rival sports fans
My favorite guard of all time. As a basketball player, copied his jumper, it worked for me!
Havlicek is another all time great that is forgotten.
The one statistic working against Elgin is his career field goal percentage (43.1%). When you consider how many shots he took, this is an important stat.
Yes, I have often wondered about that. Was he an amazing offensive rebounder who would keep doing put-backs until he scored? If so, that would partially depress his shooting percentage.
@@jonathanbein5559he and later Moses Malone were known for, at times, missing shots intentionally to get an easier putback bucket.
Seattle U played Regis at Everett, WA, and we watched the game. Elgin came out and the PA announcer said "Elgin Baylor has tied the Memorial Coliseum record with 43 points tonight." Coach Castellani put Baylor back in; he took his shot from 'way outside of what would become the three-point line, and jogged off the floor as the basketball went through the net. The crowd roared in approval, and the PA man got to revise his previous announcement. Elgin played at another level.
Dr. J patterened his game after Elgin Baylor. Just like Kobe patterned his game after Michael Jordan.
ua-cam.com/video/a-duOeqdvIY/v-deo.html
GREAT VIDEO SIR!
So, I am 69 years old and lived in Fairmont West Virginia at the time. Either he went to WVU or he was from Morgantown, but he was featured on the Wheaties box. Talked about he wouldnt go into dinner until he could hit a 100 free throws in a row.
I'm still trying for 10. Lol
George Mikan and Bob Pettit are even more forgotten than Elgin.
I NEVER hear about The Big O, Oscar Robertson.
Oscar Robinson average a triple double the entire year.
Jerry West would have been the best 3 point shooter if he played in the NBA, I saw him play. He was the best 2 guard, shooting guard in the history of the NBA.
Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson - people do not talk about those two players enough. Oscar Robertson - I remember as a 12 year old mimicking the players. He is one player I would not want to be hit by or receive a body blow from.
My Starting 5 NBA All Time would be Robertson, Jordan, Bird, Irving and Chamberlain. On My Bench I've got Unseld, Hayes, Malone, Johnson and West, with Walton, Barkley, Havlicek, Frazier and Monroe. I've only picked players that I saw during their playing days. That's why Russell isn't on My Team. I saw Jabbar play but wasn't a fan of his Defense. With the Centers I picked, I've got Scoring, Rebounding, Passing and Defense covered. No Modern Day players cause I'm not a fan of Today's game. But My Team would beat any Team of Players from the last 23 years.
Gracious man.
I wish I could have seen Elgin play. But thankfully, very thankfully I did get to see Bird play. And a few other amazing talents. I also got to see Manute Bol play against Boston College. That was something else.
Great talents - I appreciate the Manute Bol call out 👍
Saw him play with Golden State
A basketball wasn't worth beans without Elgin Baylor's facsimile autograph.
True. Elgin Baylor is the forgotten man. RIP
Baylor and Robertson, the two best ever. West was amazing himself.
All due respect to Elgin Baylor. Without looking up career statistics Connie Hawkins does come to mind as far as being underrated.
I agree 💯 , Connie Hawkins was the creator of the the game being played in the air, then came Doc and the Ice Man etc etc. respect 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🔥
I just noticed the Vancouver Fire Department patch on his desk, very cool, I am a FF in the Vancouver area.
One of the biggest problems is that there's not nearly as much film of these players from the past as there is just huge monstrous amounts of film clips of the present day players and these younger guys today are much more high flyers the defense is probably worse today than it was back in the day But greatness is greatness in In the era because it requires consistency and that's not easy in professional sports... There are many many Great players from the past like Jerry West Elgin Baylor Rick Barry or Doctor J Moses Malone Bobby Jones Andrew Tony Kevin mckevin mccale Larry Bird....Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell George Mikkkkkkan Bob Cousy John Havlicek Dave Cowans Charles Barkley Hakeem...and many more
I agree with Elgin Baylor and would add Bob Petit who won the 7h game against Boston with 2 bandaged broken hands as he put 50 points on the board for St Louis Hawks. I doubt anyone has ever heard of or seen since
I'd rather watch a 60s NBA game than a current one.
The three point shot ruined the game for me.
First! I'm the George Mikan of this thread 👍
Mikan drop!
Before I even watched the video, I figured this would be about either Elgin or Oscar
Zeke...forgive me, Mr. West...you are Logo (and more) during and after your playing days and Elgin is NOT forgotten and will be remembered for more than his hang time as long as bb is celebrated. Looking back, I regret his Seattle team couldn't whup Rupp's Wildcats in the 1958 NCAA finals.
Baylor was my dad’s favorite player, from when he saw him in Minneapolis.
I'd take Baylor over Lebron any day
Different era's u can't compare them
I'll take lebron
You'd be wrong. Ill take Lebron over ANYONE EVER!!!
Im not a LeBron Stan but i dont think Baylor could run the offense/distribute/facilitate they way LeBron does. Both are well rounded but James can run Point Forward at his size. Baylor is probably the better scorer.
Baylor wasn't a Leader. Lebron was. I have no choice but to take Lebron over Baylor.
Zeke from Cabin Creek ! I watched these Lakers when I was in the military out on the West coast. Elgin in the lane...hanging for an eternity before making the shot!
Strictly limiting the discussion to "superstars",aside from Elgin, I would say Pete Maravich or my personal idol/hero Connie Hawkins although the Hawk is a special case because most of his best years were behind him by the time they finally let him into the NBA.
My first NBA game, I was about 10 years old. My Dad told me I could go stand on the floor during warmup. After a short time I got anxious for game to start. Standing next to me was a very tall gentleman in a suit. I politely asked if he had the time. He very slowly looked down at me and then very slowly pulled his hand out of his pocket and looked at his watch and gave me the time. I said thank you. I then turned and walked back to my seat (2nd row from floor at Boston Garden). As I approached I saw my Dad with a huge grin and I said what’s so funny? He replied, do you know who that was? I said no. He said Elgin Baylor! 😃
....also earning nominations are Bob Cousy -the godfather of modern ball
handling and Bob Petit who, maybe along with Elgin,perfected modern jump shooting on the move techniques. Perhaps not quite at the level as the other guys but seemingly forgotten is Nate Archibald.
Had a feeling before watching JW was going to say Elgin Baylor. I'd put Elvin Hayes, Alonzo Mourning, Bobby Jones, Walter Davis, Andrew Toney. Dave Cowens, Connie Hawkins, George Gervin, Mark Price and several others in that group, too.
IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO ADMIRE MISTER WEST!!!
When I saw the headline on this video I immediately thought "Elgin Baylor." I remember watching him play in college.
Elgin was like Dr.J before Dr.J became Dr.J! Also, he and Charles Barkely were the greatest rebounding 6'5" forwards in NBA history!
Frank Selvey played HS basketball at Corbin KY for the rebounds!!!!
Baylor was super. Period.
No kidding, when reading the question posed to West, Elgin Baylor came to mind.
Two things:
1. If Michael Jordan could watch all of Elgins highlights (the ones the NBA missed included) he'd be singing E.B.'s praises as well;
2. If a young Wilt had been on those early, losing finals Laker teams with Jerry n Elgin, (to the Celtics) methinks L.A. would've bagged more than a couple of Championships instead of 8 straight (9 out of 10 consec yrs) by Boston. Lakers would have "jelled" earlier & better.....than late 60's version.
More on Elgin Baylor, please.
Elgin Baylor, Mr. Hangtime!
No one ever talks about Elvin Hayes anymore. He's been forgotten.
The Lakers Center Ray Felix, after that loss, stood up with a rallying statement: "Don't worry fellows will get them tomorrow!".he didn't realize it was the seventh game..lol
Smh
Great!
Never saw Baylor. Started watching the nba in 1980. Hakeem the Dream is the most overlooked since 1980, imho.
Nobody could more things better than Elgin Baylor. I believe he was the best basketball player ever.
Jerry west was a great player I remember BOSTON Celtics DEREK SANDERS made wild baskets clutch baskets 1968 69 game 3 and BOSTON came from 0-2 game series I started to cry like a little baby why the LAKERS couldn't win the NBA championship it was because the GREAT COACH PLAYER HALL OF FAMER BILL RUSSELL never be player like him TRUE CHAMPION and I'm a LAKERS FAN ask LAKERS ex player Celtics Don Nelson..wild basket at the end LAKERS fire coach Bill Vanbrekoff after that.
Satch. The high bouncing off the rim shots by one of the Jones and Don Nelson that went in, were unbelievable, too. Oh, well. Sigh....
Did Jerry even realize that when baylor retired he was the third leading rebounder in history?!
I saw most of the players mentioned below and was a frustrated Laker fan in the Jerry West /Elgin Baylor era. But I've noticed something in looking at film from that era -- the players couldn't handle the dribbling with their off hand (normally left) not as nearly well as today's players. Do most of you agree with that?
I knew his answer would be the late, great Elgin Baylor
2:27
Partial year - Elgin didn't play enough games that season to qualify for the record books, or he'd have the 4'th highest scoring season (in PPG, 0.1 behind Wilt's #3 season) of all time.
I think he needed *2* more games.
But he would NOT have won the scoring championship that season, as that was Wilt's 50.4 season of fame.
Yawn troll
This man is 80 something and he is still haunted and by losses.
I could pick 5 NBA players from the 60’s that would beat any 5 players from the last 20 years by 30 points
Hot Rod Huntley, who passed it to Selvy in the last seconds, would in later years call Selvy and say "Nice Shot" and hang up.
That one hurt most of all. The 100 point game college player misses an NBA championship shot.
I'm sure he'd trade 2 to make 98 and get an NBA championship. I wish West had taken that shot, too.
At 4:00 Jerry says, "His accridism" will be remembered. What is the word there? I can't decipher it.
Athleticism
Funny that so many claim Kareem is a GOAT and yet he was 6 wins and 15 losses against Willis Reed from 1969 to 74 even though the Bucks won 304 to the Knicks 266. Reed was hurt so badly from 1971 on only playing in 99 regular season games in 3 years and yet the last two times that Jabbar played Reed in November of 1973, Reed held Jabbar to 18 for 40 shooting for 45% and 44 points in 86 minutes.
Reed held Jabbar to 50% shooting in 21 games and for his career Kareem shot 56%.
Ewing played the old bald Jabbar who shot over 58% against Ewing and Reed played the 30 and 16 Jabbar and held him to 50% shooting!
Maybe a little respect for the 1960's players!
Elgin WAS way underrated but Oscar Robertson or possibly Wilt Chamberlain are the best "most forgotten" players of NBA history. Oscar did it ALL.. !
Elgin Baylor has NOT been forgotten by the fans.
The forgotten star is Big O
If he played today that is, he would have drained 3 pointers left and right.
Knew he was going to say Elgin before I even clicked on it.
Wow 😯