Are All-Solid Wood Guitars Worth It?
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- All-solid guitars are widely acknowledged as the best sounding acoustic guitars a player can get…but is that always true? And are all laminates created equal? We're doing a deep dive on all of this and more in today's episode of Alvarez TV, where we decide who wins the laminate vs. all-solid wood battle, settled once and for all, definitively. (Kind of.)
Jump to…
0:00 3 to 1 (Intro Jam)
1:30 Laminate vs. Solid: AD60 & MD60
3:23 Not All Laminates Are Created Equal: Understanding Laminates
5:32 Solid Mahogany vs. Laminated Mahogany
8:38 Laminate vs. Solid Tonewood Tap Test
12:14 Benefits of Laminates
13:09 Benefits of All Solid Wood
15:31 Demo: AD60 (Laminate)
16:01 Demo: MD60BG (All Solid)
Dee is playing an MD60BG: alvarezguitars.com/guitar/md60bg.
Chris is playing an AD60: alvarezguitars.com/guitar/ad60.
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Thw MD60BG is much more resonence in my opinion. My honest opinion one of the best bangs for the buck in an all solid dreadnaught hands down.
You can tell the difference between solid back and sides and laminate back and sides, however, the AD60 sounds very good as well. Alvarez has really stepped up their game when it comes to making of laminate back and sides for their Artist Series Guitars.
Can't always tell the difference.
1. I have an MD70CE and a Yairi GY1.
The Yairi is a 1991 and is laminate back and sides. It is very loud and resonant. It is actually louder than the MD.
2. My “favorite” is an older AJ60S. That laminate maple back and sides with the larger top is killer!
3. These days I only get GAS over Alvarez guitars.
What a fresh discussion, Chris the knowledge that you have is so rare and honest. I have been glued to the screen, soaking in information that has been so educational and engaging that anyone listening, now has the best tool to decide on What Guitars to buy and for what reasons. Thank you so much I am now looking through all of your Alvarez videos.
Thank you very much, Ron, we appreciate that and are so pleased you are loving this series. We have a fresh and fun Season 2 coming up this Friday! Any topics you'd like to request that we cover, feel free to reach out anytime.
Didn't even need to see the name, the sound is so much more dynamic, and open in the second one
And sparkly
I have an Alvarez Yairi wy-1 with their fabulous laminate back and sides. I also have an Alvarez MPA66SDB parlor. Both are incredible guitars. The Yairi is big and bold and a strummers dream. My MPA66 also has a bigger sound than one would assume yet when picked (flat or finger) is an incredibly articulate guitar. In low volume phrases is like an angel whispering in your ear. Give these guitars a shot and you'll probably walk away with one.
That's an excellent description, Tom, we are so pleased you love both, and we worked hard to make sure your MPA66 was as resonant and articulate as possible 🙏
I personally love the AD60 and have been playing one since 2013. It's a quality built guitar with natural materials AND stays in tune along with sounding amazing in my opinion. I really can't justify spending the money on another acoustic guitar to just have it possibly sound slightly better. If it feels and sounds good, who cares right? I'm just a strummer but my AD60 is my favorite guitar
That's excellent, Ted, and you really can't go wrong with this dreadnought. We are super pleased with it and glad you are, too.
@@AlvarezGuitarsOfficial To me it feels and sounds like a $2000 guitar. I love the neck and the natural materials. In my opinion that's what makes this guitar sing. Over the years the guitar has opened up and just sounds amazing.
Had a feeling the back/sides on my late-2020 model AD60L were laminated using the same type of wood throughout, well done Alvarez 😃👍! Does indeed make a real difference in overall tonal quality compared to typical low-grade laminates where you're not even sure what woods were used in its construction 😅. That said, I still think an all-solid wood option's worth it IF AND ONLY IF 1) it's built well enough to justify the price 😏, 2) you truly consider yourself a seasoned pro that's very much into studio/live recording, and 3) you have the necessary maintenance budget to make it work long-term (MOST important 😔).
Otherwise, an affordable solid top/high-quality laminate back-&-sides offering like that AD60 featured in the upload above will more than suffice for the average player like myself (especially if you live in an area where extreme temperature/humidity changes are commonplace, do keep that in mind). Besides, for the price those Artist Series guitars usually go for these days it would be near-impossible to find better in my blunt honest opinion...
👌
Just took back a RG260....when they drilled the piezio hole in the side of the saddle slot they pushed through and went into the brace....I would have missed it but was looking at the inside of the top and saw it. They could have fixed it and I never would spotted it. The laminated top sounded excellant....too bad. The RG260 I bought fooled me....when I first played it it was better then most of the 1500.00 + premium guitars. There's also another thing to consider.....mahogony vs rosewood. A laminated rosewood back can be similiar to a mahogony solid back. This can fool people
I own 10 Alvarez guitars and they're a mix of all solid and laminate but they all sound great to me!
I do enjoy learning from this and other videos about tonewoods. I do not have an Alvarez...yet. I usually play fingerstyle and appreciate each note from individual strings when playing both in chord or single note. Getting some overtone, rings and bell like sounds always inspires me to react when I hear them. Honestly sometimes I do not know what I am doing as it just comes out and then I try but cannot repeat what I just did LOL. Thanks for the education and inspiration! Cheers!
Great content! Thank you!!!
Sometimes I like laminates to sing over. They are more static/tame and I’m not competing with my guitar when singing vocals. Overtones are cool, but they can take over too. A guitar can sound too good. I had an Alvarez masterworks that was the folk in mahogany and that thing shimmered overtones like crazy! Amazing guitar, but it could get away from you if you didn’t mute in between some chord changes; where my little FS Yamaha I could play however and it recorded better.
I've had nothing but laminated back and side guitars for years and once I got my first all solid wood guitar I will never go back. You do have to spend a bit more but it is worth every dollar. Laminated guitars are great to get for a new player because you never know if they will stay with it or for camping and outdoors use but you have to get an all solid wood guitar to get all the sound benefits. Just my personal input.
Oh, and in terms of which type of strings are most ideal for those two demoed Alvarez models based on what info I could gather online: 80/20 lights for the AD60 (cuts through better than the stock phosphor bronze set regarding laminated mahogany back/sides in particular) and nickel bronze mediums for the MD60BG (I swear this guitar was created SOLELY to make full use of them, lol). That's all I wanted to get out of the way there!
🙂
I would have no reservations about recommending the laminate Alvarez models to anyone looking for the best bang for the buck in that price range!
Solid top and fairly new strings is all you really need
Its all go to preferences im kinda opposite in that you said, all solid wood and dead strings. Ringy strings and no sustain is not my thing.
Great video
Chris Alvarado from Driftwood Guitars makes a compelling case that laminated sides can be a tonal virtue rather than a fault. He builds his high end guitars with laminated sides by choice. The physical justification is that the stiffer and thus less resonant the back and sides are, the more resonant the top will be. That energy has to go somewhere. I'm guessing it's possible to lose some tonal subtleties depending on how well constructed the laminates are, but the vast majority of the tone comes from the top anyway. My acoustic, (not an Alvarez) has a solid Sitka top and gorgeous laminated rosewood back and sides, and sounds great to me. I bought it in fact after trying all the guitars under $800 at the Music-Go-Round used gear store, and picking the one that sounded best to me. Is it as good as a $2000 solid guitar? I guess not, but I don't think there's an extreme amount of difference between them, and it might actually be as good as any solid wood guitar in its price range.
You can get all solid guitars starting around 300 and alvarez has them starting at 600
Hi Chris, love how you get into the finesse of describing the characteristics of laminated verses solid wood.
What difference sound wise is there in the different grades of spruce top? From what I can see for the specs between AD30 and AD60 the main difference is a better grade spruce top and fingerboard. How much difference does this make.
Maybe you can A/B the two guitars in another video?
I own a ADE90CEAR and love it..
the laminated one stands up better than I'd expect it to but I 'd still choose the all solid in a blind test, 100 times out of 100.
My MF60OM is not only my favorite, but the best sounding acoustic guitar I’ve ever owned. Excellent guitar.
The all solid is more clear for sure after another listen. That being said two great instruments.
Impressive video. It seems there is a sweet spot in the market for high quality made in China ALL solid wood sitka/mahogany dreadnought no amp guitars and a notch higher market for the same guitars with sitka/rosewood combo. They can definitely compete with the Martin D-18 and D-28 they are ALL modeled after. Not a lot of frills or fancy binding, not much fancy whatevers around the sound hole, no real abalone, all that stuff that makes no difference in sound. Sometimes bone nut and saddle and pins, sometimes nicer open tuners that are sometimes chrome, sometimes gold. That is a winning formula for around US $700 retail that you find in the Alvarez AD60. There are comparables for similar prices perhaps from Recording King RD-318 & RD-328, Eastman, Cort, Sire, Orangewood, Tanglewood, Luna, etc.
Sometimes it doesn’t matter if the guitar is made of laminate or not. Often 2 absolutely identical instruments can sound completely different. I’ll relate what happened to me a few years ago when purchasing a Martin D-18S. The first guitar I tried which was off the wall hanger, was OK but not great. However, I noticed a very slight bow in the neck so I asked the salesman for another one. He pulled one from the storage area in the back of the store. After checking the neck, I started to play the instrument and the difference was like night and day. The second guitar was so far superior to the first one that if the neck had been OK on the first one, I might have purchased it.
This is a very informative video thank you!
Thanks for watching, Scott!
Love your videos guys! I have played Martin D28 and D35 extensively, but my MD70BG more than compares to those classic guitars. In some areas it's better, in particular the resonance of the top amd the bridge tension. Blown away by it, my deam acoustic! I just had to lower the action a bit amd make minor adjustments to the truss rod to my liking.
I own 3 Laminated Alvarez guitars. A 1972 K Yairi 5065 I bought new with apparently Brazilian RW. A 1982 K Yairi DY76 12 string with EIR, and a 2017 AD 60-12 with Mahogany. I have long wondered why, back in the earlier days, K Yairi preferred laminating and what sort of glue and laminating technique was used. Both the old Yairi guitars I own have great action and the DY76 12 has a lot of volume though not much resonance. The 72 Yairi sounds a bit boxy but has better resonance. The AD 60 I also bought new though on line and it has too high action and the neck was set at the wrong angle.. so that it actually needs the have a neck reset though it is not valuable enough for that. For that reason I have never played it very much and it has had no chance to open up so it has never sounded great and it just stays in it's case. None of these 3 guitars comes close to the tonal quality of my standard series, dreadnaught, solid rosewood Martin.
depends on the intent and builder
Yes I loved the md60egb. What string did you put in them or what’s best for tone playability?? 80/20 or phosphor. Thx. I just purchased one this weekend
I think it is more than just about the nature of the reflection. The back and sides are both mechanically and acoustically coupled to the top. That means that they act not only as a pure reflector, but because they also vibrate, they contribute to the sound in that way, too.
I think that it would be interesting to create a guitar where the back and sides are essentially pure reflectors. This could be done, for example, by constructing the back and sides of, say, 6 mm glass or marble. Yeah, totally impractical as a useful instrument, but very interesting from the perspective of isolating the reflective component of the back and sides from the acoustical/mechanical coupling component.
Thank you for watching, @AndrewUnruh 👍
I could certainly tell the difference in the tap test of the 2 pieces of Mahogany. The solid one had a more brighter sound and the laminate one had a less brighter sound. Also the 2 videos of playing the 2 different guitars just confirmed it. Chris, I do believe that the Laminate guitar will get better with age as, the back and side will open up with time, but just not as much as the the solid guitar. Also you must take into consideration that the solid top on the laminate guitar will open up as well, so this will change the tone of it in time.
A really interesting video. I can hear the difference, but the laminate guitar is remarkably good, for the money extraordinarily good. Chris's explanation as to why explains why my Artist Elite and Delta 00 sound so great. I also have an all solid MF60OM which as I've commented before is easily the match of guitars costing twice as much or more.
PS They all needed a set up though, the factory action setting was high. 3.5mm on the bass side, 2.4mm or 3/32" is usually regarded as about right, 2.75mm max.
Totally agree. My AD66SHB Mahogany top guitar sounds so good for the money and sounds better than the Martin D10-E Solid Sapele in my opinion.
So pleased to hear that, Nicholas. We love those MF60OMs, great choice.
I also agree totally. Like you, I have an all solid Alvarez Masterworks (MD80) plus both Artist and Artist Elite laminated models. I don't think you can beat any of them for the money....especially my MD80. Excellent and honest comparison by Alvarez.
Convincing, but being a left handed player I have fewer options. In the all solid masterworks there is nothing for me. An affordable solid wood guitar for me is Eastman. I like your AD 60, but I have nowhere to go if I'm looking for the improved sound of the solid wood guitar. I expect fewer choices, fact of life being a southpaw. I also support companies that have options for me. Eastman does. Martin and Taylor too but price quickly thins out the options for me there.
It really depends on your playing style, i grew up playing a yamaha fg720L, which is laminate back and sides, (very similar guitar to the Alvarez AD 60) and much preferred the airy treble and growl from that guitar, tons of sonic resonance an absolute killer guitar, and it has the gibson scale length. I had it setup with bone nut/saddle and when it needed new frets, i had the whole neck refretted with EVO gold frets. Man that kicked up the tone to rival the big wig companies. Comparitively, ive had solid wood acoustics (larivees/martins) in the past and although sonically and asthetically beautiful and superior, a lot more punchy and bright and can even muddy with the overtones with my preference of strumming, being used to the yamaha. Long story short, i sold the solid wood guitars but still have my number 1 yamaha. If you're a good guitar player and use the right strings and setup, you can make a laminate back and sides guitar sound just as beautiful. Sometimes buying more expensive and lavish gear doesn't necessarily make you a better guitar player.
Great thoughts here, @S.Henderson_, thanks for tuning in! There is also a great deal of difference between laminates as you've likely heard and played for yourself. Thanks for watching 👍
No wonder my AD66SHB sounds so good
My MD60BG should be here soon from St. Lou. It's been 17 long days since I ordered it. Good grief! I can barely stand it! Good discussion, guys!
That’s funny. I waited 372 days for my FYM66HD! Talk about building suspense! It was worth it though. Hope it comes in time for ya!
@@benwood7132 came in yesterday!
@@TravelinBoneSC Glad to hear it! Enjoy. Those guitars are almost universally loved.
I love your vids! Very informative and inspiring. I have a DYM60HD and an FYM66HD on the way. (And hats off to JP for pointing me in that direction) My question about the Yairi masterwork series (DYM, FYM, etc), does Yairi use hide glue?
Thanks,
Doug
There is an old documentary on youtube with a your of the Yairi workshop featuring the late Kazuo Yairi (I believe it's from 2003). It was mentioned they used hide glue in the Yairi guitars back then. Pretty sure they still do in their newer guitars but I'm not completely sure
Longtime Alvarez fan. My first was an old dread from the 70's. These days I have a Yairi WY1ts and an AD70 (both laminates) plus my ever-present D18. The AD70 does lose a bit of tone as compared to, say the MD70BG (not always a bad thing imho, and when plugged in the difference is a touch less), but it is less finicky than many all-solids. With a K&K/preamp, the AD70 plays well and sounds very good on stage. Very well-built.
My question is this: How does the lamination on the Artist Series (and Artist Elite), compare with lamination techniques Yairi uses? My WY1TS is a great guitar, laminated/layered RW with cedar top - very warm, articulate, and perfect for fingerstyle -- but I cannot seem to find any real comparisons between the Yairi and Alvarez Artist techniques. Can you help? Looking at MG60, AG60, and GY60 to complement the WY1 .... THANKS!
Now I finally understand what you mean when you say laminate backs and sides 😂
So interesting to hear the difference in the tapping!
I would love to see a time lapse of bending the solid wood into shape 😍
That's a fantastic idea! We'll pass that along 👍
Interestingly enough, I preferred the laminate over all solid in the video ending demos. It probably has to do with the all solid overpowering the mic, but notes were much more pleasant from the laminate.
I been trying to find out if the old “ regent” models from the 1990s were made all solid or not. So far no luck. I have one bought new in 1995 that looks like a Martin D18 copy and it appears to be solid mahogany but I can’t tell for sure. It’s loud and very resonant so it sure sounds solid
My first guitar was an old nylon string Alvarez that was stolen from a “friend”. I have always wanted another Alvarez but my attention has been towards electric guitars for the past 20 years. I have a budget Martin that doesn’t impress me very much. I bought it because of the name on the headstock. Now I am looking for a good quality acoustic that’s not going to break the bank and your videos are really informative and helpful. I love the sound and looks of the MF60CEOM. What type of profile is the neck on that model?
Where do you source your laminated?
There are SO MANY different models made by Alvarez in the same price range… even entry level guitars already have many models ( RD26,RF26, RS26,RC26😢😮😅 etc) and as a beginner it’s so difficult to choose and decide. Master and Artist series also in my consideration but feel getting lost in sooo many models with slight difference.
I just got a solid wood Alvarez and find it to be everything I wanted in a guitar. Alvarez is the most economical for a solid that I know of. I'm sure a laminate would be good, but if you plan to keep it a long time, why not go solid especially for the price. Anyway, my md60bg is the nicest playing guitar I've ever had and I like the sound now and know it will age to something even better.
Glad to hear you're enjoying your Alvarez, and thanks for the kind words
@fire7side 🙌.
I just heard you say that all masterworks guitars are solid wood. My artist series is from masterworks and I was told the back and sides are lamented. I have ESeries 19010996 model aga00cearsh8. I’m just curious it don’t matter as the guitar is great sound quality and resonance is great and long. I look and listen and feel for a specific sound so lament or solid does not really matter. But still curious.
The problem is that other factors involved in making every instrument are so in flux that the judgment is hard to render. You really have to have two instruments where this is the only difference, even the same stock, for example, same bracing etc. Also, the lamination should be exactly the same thickness as the solid board. Even the glue used to laminate and the wood in the braces & mount pieces might matter. The lamination, because it is a laminsation, can actually be thinner. Suppose the lamination is sitka and mahogany at .095 while the solid wood is rosewood at .125?
I just bought an Alvarez AEG95 CE shb with a solid Cedar top and laminated Macassar Ebony back and sides. If this guitar sounded any better I couldn't stand it. It's a $700 guitar, but sounds like a $3000 guitar.
I think the artist series is likely a better buy than a Taylor 100 or 200 series
Those guitars look beautiful
Thank you, William 👍
Short answer: YES!!!
Really in my opinion it all depends on the sound you're going for.
The laminated guitar had surprisingly good sustain, but that is not enough to make me save my money on it. The solid wood guitar had all the harmonics that make a guitar worthy as an instrument. Solid is WAY better and will it increase in the amount that it is better as it ages. Solid will accrue better trade in value as it ages too.
Isn’t a piece of ply or veneer that’s are glued /pressured together a solid piece of wood?
One ply is still ‘solid’ ?
All solid mahogany or solid(top-back) rosewood ? What should i go for at same price?
Hi, we don't make any new models with only the back and top being solid, all our current models are all solid, which we believe does make a difference. I think the best way to answer your question is whether you should by mahogany or rosewood and that really is personal preference, even if the sides are laminated, the back with influence the tone more. We hope this episode can help ua-cam.com/video/wc5oahmddCo/v-deo.htmlsi=8ubdaB0rlDIRgKsL
@@AlvarezGuitarsOfficial i do someway preference the rosewood more for now but i cared less about tonewood differences and am less capable of knowing the possiblities but all solid guitar do have some unique characteristics so don't know if sides make much difference as time passes by and if my perspective would change for tonewood and hope i don't regret as i am more of singer songwriter.
My 1990 DY90 may be the best acoustic I have ever played....The tone is mainly in the top.
Did anyone else wonder what the two Marshalls were doing in the acoustic room?
Window dressing, buddy.
😉
Iv heard laminate guitars that sound better than solid guitars it really depends on the build and the luthier.
Very true. Thanks for watching @StarSn1per 👍
solid wood is always worth it
What is the point of laminate mahogany with mahogany filler??? Wouldn't a solid piece of mahogany be less labor and cheaper?
I think when you get caught up in the stupidness of what everyone else wants, you lose your ability to decide for yourself what you really want. After all, you hear what you want to hear....
The Martin dx2 with the hpl laminate sides and back sounds better to me. The cheap Alvarez doesn't probably have as good a bracing of wood materials used for the bracing as the more expensive one. Also probably doesn't have as good a quality a spruce top. Which is why you can have an all solid wood guitar that sounds like garbage to another one because the quality of those woods, design and construction matter. Just having all solid wood is meaningless. For instance there is all solid wood guitars that cost 500 bucks and laminated guitars that cost 5000.
I'm not saying I can't hear a difference, I can. What I will say is it's hard to hear a twice the price difference. If you are just playing around the house or playing out every once in a while, it is hard to beat an AD60.
Not really.
Enjoyment of playing an all-solid instrument is so much greater than solid-top. It'll make you want to play more, and therefore will inevitably make you play better.
@@LegsON Any guitar you enjoy playing will make you play more. A solid top guitar that is well made, sounds good, and feels good in your hands will be played more than an all solid wood guitar that is poorly made or you do not like the feel of the neck or the sound of the guitar.
@@The_Krab Purely statistically, all-solids are better manufactured (as they cost and are sold for more) and sound better.
So your point is very strange.
@@LegsON okay so an all solid series 11 recording king will be a better build guitar then a laminated back and sides Martin Taylor or PRS?
@@The_Krab Possibly.
It'll definitely be 30-60% cheaper, and your original point was about price difference, wasn't it?
No contest. All solid is way way superior.
They are only worth it if your Eric Clapton.. otherwise, if your playing at home in the yard or the park no they are not worth the price they ask
Yo - lemme axe you sumpmm:
What about solid lindenwood tops?