Agreed! True, tried and tested. Unless you go full on prog like Dream Theater that re-invented math into music, but who wants to do a third-degree equation to rock out to the music? 🙂
This makes me think of the Malcolm In The Middle episode where Malcom, jealous of Dewey's blossoming musical ability, pours his heart and soul into writing an original song... which the family promptly recognizes as just being the melody of the "Meow Mix" cat food advertising jingle.
@@martymartin2894People idolize musicians so of course they gonna be like nooo, not my hereos. It's okay to borrow rifd and change its tone, but this is obvious theft and nit just a couple of time, but basically every song. It's outrageous
Most bands (purposely or accidentally) copy riffs they hear from other bands. It's rarely done with malice, IMO. Thanks for mentioning Y & T - underrated band.
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The fact that you put Sanitarium twice says a lot. So also Bleak plagiarized Outlaws? Fact is, you are evaluating this with the assumption that everything should be 100% original. That's not the case, in fact, the opposite is true. Any art form is an evolution, it borrows techniques, arrangement ideas, sounds, production breakthroughs from the best you have at that time, to push it to the next level. Let's take "One" and by extension all "And Justice for all". Yeah, they dod borrow the idea of fast kickdrum in sync with 0-0-0-0-0-0 palm muting, they translated into a production idea of having really high freqs on the kick drum for definition... That caused the birth of a new era of music. Fear factory expanded on that idea, Pantera also, in a different way, and then Meshuggah, and then thousands of bands. The point is that when there is a good idea you don't dismiss it because "somebody did it already", you expand on that idea. That's the basics of music evolution. Plagiarism is when you simply copy something and the result is a lesser version of the original.
I just show the similarities, it's up to you to judge. I think it's from Bleakhouse, they have admitted to lifting that riff but they didn't mention the band.
@@RuthlessMetalYT It's a comfortable position on guiitar that sounds good. Sanitarium, One, and other countless songs use that as a base for arpeggios, and as I wrote in another comment, it's the ninth which made Every Breath You Take a hit. It sound similar? Of course it does, that's the point. It has been used in 3 songs you found, and in 300.000 more you don't know about :)
It's tough writing material as a guitarist. I remember playing a show and all of a sudden during a solo I had made up, the entire crowd blew up. Later, a fan came and told me it was so cool that I did a tribute. I found the song and it was something made two years after I wrote my solo, but I guess it found some footing in the metal world so I was now the copycat. Same happened with the Papa Roach last resort riff. I have a cassette of playing the riff in the mid 90s and countless videos of my band playing it at gigs from 96-99. It was released in 2000 and blew up.
As fans you're blind for the admiration but Metallica always sought be filthy commercial, the main songwriter always was D.M. and it's the proof that even in the second record thet took his stuff. C.B. never was a big deal, Lars always was a feelingless shark and James never had a true talent to compound, I guess that if Kirk had had the freedom to write honest songs.... a proud fate they had reached, but always was a lie, "o.k. let's do blow up this in money", etc. The reason is so clear until the day of today, the band in tour constantly without a record, a record each 5 years, with the name Metallica in many merch, etc. Sorry fans and me too, forever they were plastic heroes.
Me: spends months perfecting riffs and fine tuning them Also Me: goes out and buys Van Halens new CD Me again: "HOW DID VAN HALEN STEAL ALL MY RIFFS?? PLAGIARISM!!!!"
This kind of things happens with multiple bands. There is only so much you can do playing in E and A. Also, a little but important detail is that Metallica had "the magic" to make this songs big things, unlike most of the originals. That's another debate too
I mean, its really no different from what Led Zeppelin did with some of their early material. Its also cool that Seek and Destroy is sort of a Frankenstein of their favorite metal at the time.
The Magic was on the hand of the production team. Lars and kirk are pretty weak musicians... If it wasn't for James..... I dunno if we would be talking. Some kind of Monster doc showed us all that those guys are all in for the money and easy rock star status. Man, bob rock composed almost every kirk's solo!!
The thing that gets me the most is when people cite multiple examples for one song, and fail to mention why the other bands aren’t plagiarizing each other.
What is called "plagiarism" here, I call "development". This is how life in general and art in particular works: You take inspiration from something or someone else, make it your own and something new emerges! Sure, there is such a thing as plain plagiarism. But nothing presented in this video would qualify as such. Nevertheless great video, because it shows where Metallica took their inspirations from!
@@joshkeisling I think in all the examples there was a significant difference in the melody, chord progression or rhythm. Yes, you could here in some of the examples, where the Idea came from, but it was different. The only two examples that were really close, were the ones from Y&T and Saxon, but the musical context, in which they were presented was totally different. Don't forget music is not just about a row of notes or progressions. It's mainly about the context in which they take place. You can have the exact same chord progression or melody and put them in a different context and the "feel" of the piece would drastically change. If this were not the case , we would"t have new music at all, cause everything would have been said already! Greetings from Germany!
I completely agree with your view! It's natural to interpret it as development, not plagiarism. But the video was very well produced and interesting. I think this level of quality is hard to produce. I respect the efforts of the creator.
@@joshkeisling some of them are the same notes, but these are almost completely different riffs. Something like you write a riff with a sound in your head and you don’t know where it came from, then boom there’s the two similar riffs that sanitarium was “based on”. It’s not just hard to write a song on a guitar, you also have limitations regarding to your hand, imagine that 1000’s of great musicians have to creat something good on a 12 by 4 template where your fingers can go only limited spaces. 99% of these are absolutely subconscious similarities
I do think the early Metallica was essentially a very competent/brilliant covers band. But they have always been honest about their roots/influences so fair play to them.
More so than a lot of bands. The giving credit where it is do, and bringing attention to and promoting the bands that excited them on the way up. All of the GARAGE DAYS albums attest to this. And how about t- shirts? All the Misfits shirts in the late 80's certainly got my attention and inspired me to check them out. I actually started listening to Metallica because of the t- shirts the older kids on the skating scene would wear. Who the hell is this cool band with the skull images? Lol. When they dropped the ONE video they were already huge without any assistance from Empty V or radio. That was real impressive. My favorite years of the band were in the 1980's.
No, they lied a lot about Dave’s contributions to the first two albums. In fact, when they recently released their reissues, Lars tried to take more writing credits away from Dave. That’s why he wouldn’t sign off on the project.
I believe that in song-writing, it is usually a case of sub-conscious 'plagiarism' where you have heard melodies/phrases/rhythms that stick in your brain and then those come out when you are writing, especially in a genre like this has a pretty tight circle of main influences
@@craighenry9512 even if there are many similar parts, Metallica always does a better job than the original, in my opinion. Thank God we got Metallica put on this earth!
Yes, i have written some cool riffs. Then a few weeks later i hear a song on spotify and go damn it it sounds like that riff! It’s called influence and it comes out sub consciously.
@@martymartin2894 I mean, I hate to say it but music has existed from basically the dawn of time to now so almost any ideas artists come up with have been done before
Technically all notes have been played but still there are combinations and melody's that can be put together to still make a good song that's not a copy of something else. Although I'd agree it's probably much harder now than it was 30 or 40 yrs ago.
11:08 Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium is by far the biggest stretch. I've heard each song easily over 1,000 times in my life and never once that I think there was a similarity.
@@RuthlessMetalYT I can play both Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium on guitar, bass, AND drums - not to mention being able to sing both of them relatively well, and again - after almost 40 years I've not thought a similarity. There are COUNTLESS songs written in 7/8 time and neither of these makes me think of the other. \m/
The liner notes on Master of Puppets has a thank you to "Geddy, Alex, Neil of Rush". Plagiarism is pushing it, but I think there's an obvious link for inspiration there.
Hell, this even happened to me. I wrote a song for my band in high school (sometime in 2006-07,) and then All Hope is Gone by Slipknot came out. Imagine my surprise when the verse riff in Vendetta was damn near the same riff I wrote! It’s always going to happen, even if you have no idea
I wrote a song with my first real band. I was 16, the dudes in the band were all a little older, but we had good common ground and there was some genuine chemistry. I remember writing the skeleton for a song sitting at the foot of my bed. My buddy who got me into reading Dune had just passed away and I wrote this really intense piece that revolved around this middle-eastern sounding melody, I was just thinking of my friend and the riffs came. I took it to the band and we worked it into an amazing song. It was the longest, progiest song we’d ever written. The lyrics even covered some of the themes of Dune’s Butlerian Jihad. Anyway, we played it for a year and we were still jazzed on it and about to record it, then a song with a nearly identical riff called “Chop Suey” hit the radio and becomes the biggest song in the whole world. That song was inescapable for the next year and a half and I wanted to die every time I heard it.
One time I came up with this cool clean riff. Then another day I heard A room with a view by Death Angel. Imagine my confusion hearing the intro riff as it was like 95% similar to the doodle I came up with and I'd never heard them before
If Metallica ever said they’ve never heard of Diamond Head or never listed to Saxon, you could call this malicious, but they’ve always talked about their influences. Hard to consider that “stealing.”
@@RuthlessMetalYT Not if you admit it before the composition. Anyway, it's nothing new under the sun. The same books, the same screenplays, the same music. Whitehead (the guy who wrote with Bertrand Russel ''Principia Mathematica'') said: “The safest general characterization of all the Western philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato'' - in more then 2000 years, nothing much happened, we've just reanalyzed Plato. Maybe that is all we can.
@@RuthlessMetalYT dude majority of these you’re grasping at straws. I listened to this with an open ear/mind and I would say 98% is a stretch on your part.
@@RuthlessMetalYT the “admitting” part is where you’re running into problems. They didn’t steal riffs verbatim, but they did heavily incorporate a LOT of other artists’ material as they crafted their own musical style. That’s called INFLUENCE. Or HEAVY influence if you like. Right now, we are using words to communicate, words that other people created. The mere act of speaking or typing is theft under your definitions. You are breathing air that you didn’t create, eating food that you didn’t create. Being alive itself is then theft.
@@Chefmike7545 I agree. Totally grasping at straws for many of them. Not all, but many. I mean, Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium? Maybe a few notes are the same, and played with the same cadence, but hearing one song does not make me think of the other. Is no band allowed to play a "dun-nun dun-naaaaaaaaa" anymore now?
Well done, thank you! Some "inspirations" are clearly obvious, others not that much, but its there. Metallica was indeed inspired and took some of their sound and made its theirs. The best part is Dave Mustaine describing 4:33 Sweet Home Alabama LOL :D
I think a lot of songs get created when you're trying to learn another band's song but you make some mistakes and realize that you've come up with a good riff by just noodling around.
some of these sound literally stolen, others just inspired. as a composer i can say this happens all the time unconsciously, your memory just plays tricks on you making you believe you just came up with an idea but it's just a song you already listened to. it's specially hard to spot when you listen to 10 different bands every day but most of the times i notice when something sounds way too similar and i just delete the song out of guilt
Metallica have never shyed away from their inspirations. Lars even released a compilation cd in 1990 with a lot of NWOBHM songs that inspired Metallica. Some of the songs they've covered also gave those bands new fans and bigger audiences
@@deletedhero5579 If they were simply paying tribute to a bands almost identical riff and/or got the idea for a riff from a band, then they would have credited each band, and the song they used the almost identical riff or idea on, inside each record's sleeve. Plagiarism - take (the work or an idea of someone else) and pass it off as one's own. That is exactly what Metallica did. They never credited any song specifically. Lars just generalized what bands he was influenced by and even said how he borrowed this and that. But he never specifically gave credit to any particular song and/or riff.
When I was a teenager (long time ago) I was into Metallica as well as other metal bands. I remember playing an idea to my friends who accused me of ripping off Slayer. At that point I hadn’t ever listened to a Slayer song lol. I soon rectified that 😉
My friends like Natalya know I ripoff Metallica, Megadeth and basically every Thrash Metal and NWOBHM band one bass riff I played sounded similar to the trooper by Iron Maiden.
that happened to me as well! I came up with a couple of riffs back in the day. one was very close to for whom the bell tolls (before I even heard the song) and the other one to megadeaths she Wolf (even before that song came out). So yeah, it can happen.
A friend of mine who both plays guitar as well as performs stand up comedy once told me, "Nothing new under the sun, my friend. There are only twelve notes on a guitar and six basic premises for jokes in all of history. It's only a matter of time before someone writes something that sounds like something somebody else wrote."
Though it may be true that they borrowed in certain cases I think everyone who writes Heavy Metal tunes can agree that it often can happen that you write a riff that's very similar to something a band has written you've never even heard of. Especially with the acoustic stuff, sometimes you just fiddle around shifting power chords on the fretboard, playing an open note in between and you end up with something similar to Sanitarium. So, I really don't think a lot of that stuff can be labeled plagiarism. That said, especially with the NWOTHM there's a lot of bland plagiarism going on sadly.
I can agree with you on that happening but, I think it's a little more than obvious that quite a few of these songs are more than a coincidence that they sound simular. If this were another band that you never heard of or liked and watched this video, I'm sure your opinion would change. Bias is a natural thing so I don't hold that against you but you really need to try and be neutral on these types of things. I really like Metallicas albums up thru master of puppets and I can even hear it plain as day. Have a good one.
@@MentaIPatient in some cases, yes I agree. I always thought it can't be possible that Metallica themselves didn't realize that the Fade to Black middle section sounds like A National Acrobat by Sabbath. But I think sometimes it's not intentionally but a case of writing something and realizing at a later point that it may unintentionally be borrowed from elsewhere
Some are obviously ripped off, some are standard riffs that appear on many other songs in various variations. For example, the "Tom Saywer" riffs also appears of Blind Guardian's "Lost in the Twilight Hall", Iced Earth's "Melancholy" and Kreator's "Enemy of God".
good taste man. tales is such an underrated album other than altair 4 and tommyknockers lol. lost in the twilight hall, traveler in time, lord of the rings, last candle, etc...
@@dbubc6345 Altair 4 and Tommyknockers are both very good songs. It's just that the former ends halfway though, seemingly, and the latter has a somewhat silly chorus (but it also has that awesome melodic lead and amazing verses). And of course, Lost in the Twilight Hass is one of the best songs ever written, just for that chorus and pre-chorus solo alone. Mindblowingly brilliant.
@@martymartin2894 most bands have a few that they copied to some measure: Beatles, Pink Floyd, Megadeath, pretty much all of them, and of course Zeppelin. same goes for most movies, books, etc. the question is how much is copied, or modified, was it intentional, did they give credit. most of Metallica's good stuff was original, and the stuff they modified was way better, so they get a pass. although i think behind the scenes they should probably should have paid some bands.....and who knows, they probably did to avoid lawsuits
I think you make a pretty good case for most of the riffs you presented. I usually don’t listen to music close to the genre I play when I’m writing. That seems to help. One thing I really believe is, James and Lars were lost after Cliff died. It’s never been the same.
@@normie2716 cliff was the rudder in certain respects, I don't care for his bass playing, but after he was gone, it became a new Metallica, for me everything after reload is shot except when I feel charitable and listen to some songs from death magnetic.. cliff and newsted we're the heart of Metallica.
If you check out Metallica's early stuff and Diamond Head's live performance, you can see where Metallica got all of their early influence. Everything from the look and sound
@@TheCyberMantis well my general concern about today's bands is that they no longer have anything to say in their songs. And i feel that contributes largely to the copycatism. You wrote a song about cats, i write a song about cats. You used this gear to play it, i will use the same gear. You played this chord sequence i will play the sam sequence with a pause at the end of every second measure. You have a 7 string guitar, i have an 8 string guitar. But will just play an open bottom string for 80% of the song. I feel if a band does not have anything to convey they are sentenced to a copy of a copy of a copy. In death metal alone in ghe 80s and 90s , death had songs about society dillemas, deicide praised satan with chugging and tremolo riffs, morbid angel also praised satan but in a more threistic fashion and completely different approach to write their riffs, cannibal corpse sang pretty much a b class slasher movie , again with their own sound vocabulary And that was just one genre of metal. Can i tell the same about todays metal... Nope , its freaking repetarive. Rhere is a lot of smaller bands that break this vicious cycle, which i hope will have a. Hance to be big one day
Amazing research work. There is a lot of similarities but Metallica has always sited those bands as influences. I think that to blame them of plagiarism we would have to start on all the medieval compositions or all the great bluesmen.
@@cj5787 dude nah its all love listen to crime for revenge by ultra violent then listen to kill em all. Metallica loves punk bands hell James wore a damn Misfit shirt all the time. That's how I found out about that band lol
Alright, so I appreciate the level of depth you put into this video. This is something that I fight with a lot in my own music. However, any musician is inspired from certain artists/songs and simply put, there only 12 notes in the modern musical alphabet (aside from microtonal alphabet). You can try and try and try to write something different, but chances are someone else has written and played that sequence of notes before. Whether they are a multi-national musical touring band, or someone in their basement who forgets the riff tomorrow. Whether it's slower or faster, or even in a different key or transposed lower of high, that sequence of "musical steps" has been played before. Then you take into account that these bands are trying to fit within a particular musical style. And in thrash metal, you (normally) have to play quick rhythms with catchy riffs. Metal is full of these similarities. If you listen to modern heavy metal, death metal, black metal, math metal, blah blah blah.. you'll hear the same note (the lower open string(s) a thousand times in each song. Is that stealing a riff? Is meshuggah copying metallica when they play "Bleed" because "Seek and Destroy" has a lot of muted open string plucks in between their riffs? No. Arguing that someone "stole" a riff that sounds similar but clearly isn't the same is like saying Picasso stole an idea for his painting, "The Weeping Woman", because a caveman drew a face on a wall way before anyone else did. "Oh that song has a guitar solo over an acoustic playing chords. I know another song that did that. Must have stolen the idea." "oh, this band used a snare drum on the 2nd and 4th beat in the song. I know a band that did that already. Must have stolen it." It's not theft, it's simply artists making art with what they have. And music only has 12 notes to choose from.
Unwritten rule in art, music and writing: It's not who does it first, it's who does it best. If you are not an artist writer of musician, you will never understand this.
I really like this video. Shows a lot where Metallica came from. Good job finding the similarities and the interviews! (This video also helped me find more good music so thanks again haha)
I know..I just heard Blind Guardian, Lost in the Twighlight Hall for the first time, thanks to this comment string....and I am blown away! I was late to the party with Iron Maiden too ( I know...shame on me, what kind of metal head am I?! etc!😆. And the truth is, I'm actually not a metalhead - though I do love some metal. Hard Rock, Grunge, Alternative, Emo, Punk, Prog..Heavy metal ..HAIR Metal..lol! Industrial metal (NIN )...Nu metal.. Classic Rock..Blues..Jazz...Classical some Pop Dubstep...and whatever the Prodigy was.. yeah, broad taste..but never would I say I'm a metalhead), and I rate this as equal "blown away" factor as I have been with Maiden this year. And that's a LOT!
In all fairness, I think a lot of these were just similar phrasing. Though some are pretty blatantly copied, I think The Unforgiven is reaching. The most blatant is The Four Horsemen/Sweet Home thing and despite what Mustaine says, James was aware of the similarity. I'm also not totally sold on Fade To Black or The Unforgiven II, there are only so many notes that work over that chord progression. The worst offender here is Seek And Destroy, because it is clearly a mashup of different songs from other bands.
Mustaine literally said in his Gibson Icons interview that he and Cliff were listening to Sweet Home Alabama and decided to use the riff in what is now The Four Horsemen
Totally agree, I was in a band when I was in my teens and my guitarist wrote a clean intro almost identical to the call of ktulu intro, but he never listened to the song in his life, I also have a song I play that ended up being the same chord progression as nothing else matters, but I didn't even know how to play that song at the time lol yet you can sing all of nothing else matters over my song easily, and I'll admit we did take fragments of riffs back in the day to fit into our own riffs, we took things from, metallica, danzig, motorhead, motley crue, Alice in chains etc.
I said it back in 2001 after Rock in Rio, and no one believed me. Thing is I had the Priest song as "Unknown Artist - Track 11", so it was hard to prove. With Google I finally found the name. Nice one bruh.
Debunking your theories (or agreeing with them): The riff from Rainbow Theory ends on a D followed by a C, where as the riff in "Sanitarium" ends on an A and a G. Therefore the two are different. I shouldn´t even mention the "Sucking your Love" and "Seek and Destroy" one because they´re clearly very different both in pace, key and form. If anything, the chord progression in "Sucking Your Love" sounds more like something out of an Iron Maiden song. The intro to "Fade to Black" and the solo bit from "Rescue Me" you played are played in different keys and the rhythm guitars are playing completely different riffs. Holding a tone on a guitar isn´t plagiarism and suggesting that it is so is ridiculous. The chord structure over the solo in "Forever" is much, much more complicated and is as different as night and day from that in "Fade to Black". All they have in common is that a fast guitar solo is played over them. "Sweet Home Alabama" & "The Four Horsemen"! Come on! One is played in the style of a Southern Blues rock song while the other is played as an 80´s style heavy metal riff! Plus if you were gonna go after everyone that used a D-C-G chord progression in their song, you could do a ten hour video on that alone and still not come close to even covering the American bands that used it. Plus Metallica´s song goes D-C-D-Gsus4-G, not D-C-G so you can´t say that they´re the same in any way. As far as the "Darkness Descends" and "One" parts go, you do know that the E chord is used extensively in pretty much all Metal Music, right? RIGHT? I will give you that the use of the G chord in the two songs are practically the same, but that´s about all I´ll give you. "Sleeps With Thunder" and "All Nightmare Long" are structured the same way as far as the first part of the riff goes, but the tail end of the two riffs are still too different to call them too similar, that it´s plagiarism on Metallica´s part. Those particular parts of "Over My Dead Body" and "Through the Never" are perhaps the closest I will say you are to being 100 % right in this video. The rest of the two songs are very different though. Both the guitars on "Green Grass and High Tides" and "Sanitarium" use a heavy chorus effect, that was extremely popular in the 70´s and 80´s. Pretty much every guitar player used them, but it´s not unlikely that Flemming Rasmussen suggested it to James during the recordings based on having heard that song, if he had ever listened to "The Outlaws", who you can´t exactly say was in any way a famous band. As far as the two riffs go, they´re completely different except for the opening chord, which is the same. As far as the "Get Stoned" and "Enter Sandman" parallel, you are aware that a slow building intro wasn´t anything new in the early 90´s and had been used since the days of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath, I hope? Plus there´s no pumping of the drums to build up to the "rock explosion" that you have in Sandman and the complexity of the main riff in "Get Stoned" is ten times more complex than the very simple riff in "Enter Sandman". I would say that it´s like comparing a Rush song to a Ramones song, that uses a few of the same chords. Not that I think Metallica were listening to what I guess would be an at the time unreleased demo of some unknown band in 1988, when they were busy touring the world on the "And Justice for All Tour", but I´ll play along! Also the chords in the first one (I couldn´t make out the band name) is Am-C-G-Am, where as "Unforgiven" is Am-C-G-Em and the lead guitar on the first one sounds like something being played by a 14 year old, who´s trying to play lead guitar on a metal song for the first time ever! All he does is follow the Minor Scale, that is one of the first ones you learn. Does Metallica do this too in "Unforgiven", yes, but it is a very commonly used scale to use! Plus I won´t deny that Metallica could have heard it, but I have to call it as highly unlikely since it´s not even an official release. As for the intros to "Set the Stage Alight"and "Hit the Lights", I´m sure you can find many, many rock songs from the 70´s that "Began with an Ending" and the chords used are completely different. The idea for the two respective solos in "Princess of the Night" and "Seek and Destroy" are clearly the same with it being sort of a back and forth between the two guitars with the rhythm guitarist playing his bit, then the lead guitarist does his bit, then it goes back to the rhythm guitarist and so on. Plus the chords used are pretty much the same, so I´ll give you that they´re similar in many ways. It´s also one of those songs it´s not unlikely that they would have all heard at some point. As far as the verse parts in "Dead Reckoning" and "Seek and Destroy", they´re pretty similar too and since they were all Diamond Head fans, you could say that they borrowed a little from that part. There´s still enough differences that I wouldn´t say they´re the same, but they are similar. The only thing I´ll give you on the "Tom Sawyer" and "Sanitarium" comparison though is that the guitar uses three fast strokes, followed by a downstroke, that´s held for the rest of the bar for that one bit on both of the songs. Not that a hundred bands hadn´t already been inspired by that bit from Alex Lifeson and used it their own way many times in the 11 years between "Tom Sawyer" and "Sanitarium" being released. The chords aren´t even the same or close to it either, so I would call it a no on that one! Just because something is played with a slight bit of the same feel, doesn´t make it the same. As far as "Children of the Damned" goes and that bit from "Unforgiven II", that´s about four seconds in the build up to a solo you played! If Kirk wants to borrow those four seconds from Adrian Smith, not that he even does, because Kirk plays those notes as chords in his build up, where as Adrian only plays one string at a time on that bit, it´s fine by me! And that´s how you end up spending almost three hours watching a thirteen minute video LOL!
@@RuthlessMetalYT zeppelin dazed and confused ..... Zeppelin stole a FULL SONG from a published album. Pete Holmes acoustic. AND most their riffs. Which is aweful because they have SO much talent. Especially Plant.
Honestly, Metallica isn't musically that learned. They had to work hard to do their thing. Dave mustaine is the most natural musician of all of them. I think they changed it up and used the material enough in their own way its not plagerism. BUT DAMN, THIS VIDEO GIVES AWAY THE SONGS THEY USED TO MAKE THEIR STUFF. Great video. Continuously bettering oneself at music by dedicating oneself for a lifetime, (JAZZ MUSICIANS,) makes for unlimited original ideas and creation. Metallica just played metal , Did theIr thing and spent their time touring etc. Not learning and moving on. They're limited. This video is an example of this. BUT HONESTLY, PUPPETS AND .... AND JUSTICE FOR ALL ARE GODLIKE ALBUMS AND WHY I WILL ALWAYS LOVE METALLICA. Music is a matter of taste and opinion. (Dave's Lars impression is fuggin awesome!!).
Kirk's original Sandman riff had only the first part, and later they added the ending, so it got the 3 + 1 structure. Which is pretty common structure in rock. I think this is an accident, even if the intervals and structure are somewhat similar.
One thing I discovered while attempting to write music was that things would come out of me and I'd think they were super cool and that I was amazing. Then 3 years later I'd hear a song I hadn't heard in a while and whoops, ripped off that little phrase there. We're all like that. There is almost no true innovation. Our subconscious chops up what we're exposed to and pieces it back together in a somewhat lumpy blend. You especially find this out as you get older when nearly EVERY new piece of media seems to be mostly an amalgam of things you've already been exposed to. And that's no surprise, because it is. The only unfamiliar parts are just coming from things that person enjoys or experienced that you've never seen or heard before.
The real disapointment is that this could be considered a friendly exchange of riffs and ideas, refining old and making it new, but only had metallica not led the charge against stealing music like a bunch of hypocrites.
Thats how you make a living when youre a recording artist is by record sales well it used to be til things like napster ruined it.. almost everyone in the music industry supported lars stance on it. And look where we are now musicians earn .03 cents per spotify play. Not 3 cents but .03 cents… now nobody buys CDs or records anymore
Yeah but you have to admit the four horsemen is way better then Mechanix no matter how much slower it is. I mean Mechanix is a OK song, but the four horsemen is a journey through hell and back
It's been said since the beginning of music creation: good musicians write, great musicians steal. No Zeppelin, Beatles or Stones with stealing from the Great Bluesman, Waters, Dixon and Johnson. It can be called evolution or homage or theft. But, every generation begets the next
Man, thanks for the work you did on this subject. As a musician who plays metal a lot, I can say that almost all the riffs from "Kill 'em all" totally were borrowed from other bands. But to compare Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium riffs is a little bit ridiculous, these riffs sound in a song in a very different way, I mean the feel they create. And though Stone's song and Enter Sandman really have the same structure, the melodies are different, so I would consider this as "intentional reference", it's not stealing by the law. No one actually says that drum patterns were stolen from another bands, because drums usually have a narrow range of figures inside a genre. In metal music guitars play almost same role, I mean their main goal is to make "bang", and there are not so many ways of doing so. Anyway, your content is cool.
Another point, and it's been mentioned a few other ways: I think it was Mark Prindle or George Starostin that said there's only so far you can go in rock or pop before you inadvertently plagiarize. Theres only like around 150+ actual notes on a guitar fretboard. Limited by blues structures, Western intonation, and conventional song progressions, eventually you'll rip someone off. (This opinion was probably plagiarized 😆)
"Well ackshully" there's only TWELVE notes on the guitar fretboard. They're there in different octaves, but it's still only a dozen notes. Anyway, yes, you're correct. Others have said, "If you play metal, you're stealing from Black Sabbath, period. You may play it faster or slower but they already wrote it all years ago, really."
Mark Prindle is a legend. Haven’t heard the name for awhile. One of the guys who along with Lester Bangs, Robert Palmer (the writer not singer), and only a few others who belong in the pantheon of great music writers
@@themadmattster9647 I know- wish he'd resurface and start writing again. Starostin has dropped off too. Most rock critics seem to focus on prog or whoever is plagiarizing Dave Grohl this week, there are not as many who focus solely on metal.
Great video, love the channel. Another mention is Venom’s Black Metal and Phantom Lord off Kill ‘Em All. Can hear echoes of Venom on the whole record though tbh.
Some were pretty clear, some other may have been a mere inspiration. However, I think it's impossible to not write something that doesn't sound alike to some song that you've ever listened to. I sometimes improvise these amazing metal riffs, only to realize afterwards that they are ripoffs from Metallica, Megadeth, Death, Iron Maiden or some other band that I often listen to. Great vid, the "Sweet Home Alabama" part was pretty hilarious. They straight forward stole that riff lmfao.
WOW! A couple here and there is one thing but this is ridiculous. When Kirk says they bring riff tapes to the studio to record new records i dident realize those tapes were other bands.
The funny part is that when buttrockers Papa Roach had a hit, Kirk made a big deal about how they were just ripping off old Maiden licks. OH RLY, Kirk? Really now. OK, buddy. lmao
@@dogslobbergardens6606 Hahaha buttrockers... The song last resort's riff is exactly the same as a riff on the seventh son of a seventh album. To be fair with Kirk's lack of involvement in songwriting who knows if he even knows.
Some of the similarities are uncanny, and some I would say are just similar progressions that bear a strong resemblance. Did they steal some riffs? Probably. Are most of these examples "stolen" in that sense? Probably not. As tuned into the metal underground as Metallica were, particularly early on, I very much doubt they were jamming early Dark Throne demos, so I'm guessing that's mere coincidence. But there are a few examples you cited that raise an eyebrow. There are only so many simple riffs you can play, so until you start getting into Voivod territory, where you're playing complex jazz chords and lengthy riff structures, or into the more progressive djent territory with riffs that seem to go on for an hour, you're going to see a lot of overlap in basic riff structure. It's not unlike videos you see detailing how a very large percentage of top radio hits all use the same 3 or 4 basic chords. It's not just a formula, though there's an element of that in popular music, particularly now with so few songwriters doing most of the work. But people who write music tend to distill what they hear elsewhere, so like any other style of music, metal becomes a bit of a feedback loop at some point with bands influencing each other to the point where their sounds all get watered down, unless they bring in other influences or shift their direction somewhat. That's why I appreciate stuff like "Spheres" by Pestilence, or the natural progression of a band like Anacrusis, where they never sound the same from one album to the next, and always do something a little different each time, even if you can hear the common thread throughout.
MC are definitely not underrated. Anyone thats a little bit familiar with metal knows them. If someone is into mainstream stuff then yeah he definitely wouldn't know them
I believe what held them back was their propensity to try to cram 10,000 lyrics in every song. The over abundance of lyrics minimized the sections of the songs where just the instruments were audible, thus stifling each songs main riff/chord from laying down it's distinct foundation, which in my opinion in one of the keystones to building more memorable songs that reach mass appeal.
I guess the question becomes: how much of this was done knowingly and how much was sort of a sub conscious thing. Or even just an accident. I had a highschool band and one day I was listening to Dimmu Borgir and literally the same exactly bridge riff, picking rhythm and all came on from one of my songs. So it DOES happen. There's only so many riffs. But I will admit there are a lot of examples here lol That Saxon Princess of the Night/Seek and destroy pair-up is pretty exact 😬
My 1st guitar player used to say all the time..."There are only so many frets on a guitar, so sooner or later songs will eventually start sounding the same ". Some of these songs sound very close to me , so I can see how plagiarism comes into play. Nothing wrong with being influenced I'm influenced by many drummers and different genres. However where do you draw the between influence and plagiarism? To me this is good conversation no need to get your feelings in it. I don't see any lawsuits coming it's not worth it, besides majority of those bands are not around and don't have the success of Metallica.
4:32 Well, pretty sure this sums up Metallica's songwriting: they'll take anything that sounds good then tweak it to make it their own. I'm not mad, I'm not gonna hate on these guys. Videos like these are fascinating, and a really good way to find lesser known bands with great riffs.
Hey, man, if the bands themselves were mad at having their work being changed slightly by Metallica wouldn't we be hearing about it? Especially after Pharell Williams got sued over that Robin Thicke song sounding like another song. Seems like these lesser known bands could get royalties or whatever if they were mad about it.
Kill ‘em all definitely seems like the worst offender. I still excuse it because they were literally teenagers who were NWOBHM fanboys. And I don’t really care THAT much about post 88 Metallica. I believe they heard Dark Angel for sure though One is still a great song. To me the most sellout thing Metallica did was jump back to metal when it was cool again after bashing it in the nineties. To me that’s something that deserves huge scorn. I know Halford and others did the same thing but something irritated me more about Metallica doing it. I’ll never forget the Rolling Stone 1994(?) interview with Lars where he said he had been “soaking up records by Alanis Morissette and Oasis”. It’s all right to have an open mind but that interview was a bad sign of what was to come
Most of these bands are working in harmonic minor, which can often blend from band to band. In the case of YnT, Dave Meniketti was the top dog in the Bay Area guitar scene in the early 80’s. So it would make sense that players would go and see him live. We always went to see them when they came to Sacramento, hell, i even opened two shows for them, in 2012 and 2015. Even Metallica toured with YnT on the Ride the Lightning tour. But, i feel when everyone is kind of writing in the same mode, you’re going to get similarities. I find i write songs, then hear something from a large band I’ve never heard, and can pick out things that are similar, even though i wasn’t at all influenced.
I forgot Y&T was from that area, and Metal Church started in Washington, moved to San Francisco, then moved back to the Seattle area, so I am sure they knew them well too.
@@craighenry9512 Rest In Peace, Mike Howe. Wonderful guy. I was fortunate enough to be there when he auditioned for Metal Church. He was very good. One of my life’s regrets was not auditioning myself. Should have done it. But, that’s life- i just wasn’t in the same headspace musically, then. But my band did rehearse in Metal Church’s studio, so we got to hang out and see quite a few of the singer auditions
The lick kirk is playing is exactly the same . Also the descending of Master of puppets main riff is War Pigs. The middle of Fade to Black is National Acrobat.. The riff after is Eagle has landed by Saxon . Whiplash is Witching Hour and Bursting out by Venom crossed. Memory remains is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath... Its not accidents, because they took the big Hook axes of the songs . They could be more subtile.
Some of these are pretty obvious. Others aren't. Some are fairly obscure and difficult to pick out. This is quite interesting! Something I notice is that, in many of these, the riffs are enhanced or played differently, which I generally prefer. Does that justify "borrowing" the riffs? I don't know. Thanks for the interesting videos!
When newer bands did this kind of things, a lot of oldschool metalheads (or metal elitists) would say “oh they are just a ripped off metallica band”. But when Metallica did this, all these comments are very positive about them. Don’t get me wrong, I love Metallica. It’s just sad to see the double standard applied because one is an older band than another.
I love it when I hear influence in music. Artists have been using bits and pieces of other artists music for years so I see nothing wrong when anybody does it.
Yes, people get blinded if they are into something. They can't keep 2 thoughts in their minds at once. I for example love Metallica but it's also obvious that they lifted riffs and passages from their favourite bands. Cheers!
This has happened to me. Ive written many songs only to find out other songs sound similar also ive had the reverse where ive written a song then a year or two later a band comes out with very similar riffs.
I love Metallica, but "Fade to Black" has the same riff as Pink Floyd's "Goodve Blue Sky." Plenty of bands have borrowed (with and WITHOUT consent) from others, Ted Nugent said that everything he did was just Chuck Berry riffs either sped up or played backwards.
Just looked up the Pink Floyd one and wow! The part that sounds like Fade to Black is at the exact same speed and even the guitar tone is as good as identical.
Some of these seem fairly blatant but many are just similar phrasing. You did miss one of the best known ones though: Enter Sandman ripping off skate rock band Excel's Tapping Into the Emotional Void. Great job though, you clearly have an encyclopedic knowledge of metal.
Sandman doesn't rip off Excel, it's similar phrasing. Put it this way, Excel would lose if they claimed copyright infringement. If anything it rips off Michael Jackson's Beat It.
I got two more: UFO - "Let It Roll" (Album "Force It", 1975) Listen to the part between 1:40 - 2:35 (especially the twin guitars) that STRONGLY resembles METALLICA`s "Orion" and the bridge/middle part of it. It is commonly known that "Force It" is one of Kirk Hammett`s all time favorite albums ;-) Also: ENTOMBED - "Chief Rebel Angel" (Album "Morning Star", 2001), first song on the album. The intro/beginning of the track very much reminds me on the intro of "That Was Just Your Life" from "Death Magnetic". By the way, I`ve been a Metallica fan from the very beginning (the day "KEA" was released), have seen them live more than 20 times and STILL am a big admirer! In my opinion, most of the examples listed here are based on inspiration and are their own version or variation of it. Some of them may be playgiarized but I still cannot imagine that e.g. Lars deliberately decides to use that Pearl Jam drum intro for "The End Of The Line" or that they would steal from Darkthrone demos.
In most cases I can hear similar musical phrasing. But I also hear dramatic improvements in Metallica's "borrowed" riffs over the originals. To my knowledge the only songs where Metallica acknowledge deliberately and consciously borrowing riffs though were retrofitting Diamond Head into "Seek & Destroy" and adapting "Sweet Home Alabama" into the slow section of "The Four Horsemen." Edit: One exception: Iron Maiden's "Children of the Damned" is superior to Metallica's "Unforgiven II" in my humble opinion. Both are pretty good songs, though.
Just because they didn’t acknowledge it, doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. I agree some similar riffs are bound to happen, but there seem to be way too many. We already know they like to cover other people’s stuff. They did cover albums in two different decades (Well, one an EP and one a full cd) for crying out loud. Face it. They make improvements, but they do copy other bands, A LOT!
Very funny to hear the "similarities", I am a classically trained musician and I took every theory/harmony class in college, so I am always noticing possible plagiarism riffs when I listen to anything, and there are many examples that most people don't notice. The one that hit me in the face when I first heard it was, Unforgiven II/ Children of the Damned, both great songs...Check out Fleetwood Mac's "Hold Me" and Metallica's "Hero of the Day"...same progression..WTF ???
Just listened to it. Yeah you're talking about the chorus of the fleetwood mac song. Everything is derivative though. Those two songs have completely different overall feelings to them.
You don’t need a degree to hear similarities lol. Theory is free now and days and harmony construction is also free. I think you deserve every cent back from your tuition.
Ok, same progression? By that logic, anyone who uses a I IV V progression is plagiarizing. A lot of musicians use similar riffs, however, the bass and drums and a lot of instances the tempo is vastly different. Just because Metallica isn't ashamed of wearing their influences on their sleeves doesn't mean they copy them. Also, legally, you can't own a riff or a beat, if that were the case, every hip hop "artist" would owe all their royalties to Mountain. Nice try though.
When youre constantly listening to music it rubs off on you and you can easily come up with something "original" and not even think of where you got it from
Gz - you've uncovered the nature of art xD To always improve, inspire and take license and inspiration from what came before. Its like all disciplines, constantly evolving. So gz, you've just described art. But I wonder whether you are an artist or just a consumer :D
Looking back everything can be seen like that - just about every band can be accused of plagiarism. Everyone is under the influence of the current trends.
I personally think it's pretty hard to make your own music without including something that has already been done. I probably haven't come across a band who hasn't borrowed/plagiarised/... parts from other musicians. Everyone has their idols and influences and that just is apparent in their music. And this all explains, why the "most common metal riff" is a thing, for example. As long as the new song with a borowed riff is good, I'm okay with it. BTW, this topic would make an interesting series on this channel! I'd like to see a version with Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Black Saabath, or any other band. Cheers! 🤘
Master of Plagiarism was a great video that introduced me to your channel. This is an amazing follow-up. It's interesting that people that listen to Metallica first, THEN discovered some of these other bands might think that THEY plagiarized Metallica! It's tough to say whether Metallica "plagiarized" these bands, or if they were just heavily influenced and wanted to emulate them. I don't think Metallica was shy about saying who their influences were. Finally, I wanted to say I really like your channel, and I saw that you weren't getting enough support to keep it alive. You obviously have a vast knowledge of metal (respect!) and I find these deeper discussions of the genre more interesting than some of the "top 10" lists you have recently done.
That's 'cos he never shuts up! In 1989, I bought an interview picture disc, I was gutted to play it and find out it was Lars droning on for the entirety of the 2 sides, with the occasional grunt from one of the others, or if they actually began a sentence, he'd just speak over them until they shut up. That was a turning point for me with all their interviews, I realised that unless they were in print, you hardly ever got to hear the other band members opinions.
I feel these songs may be sounding somewhat similar but they are so different. All of this seems like a basis for all bands. Many do lead riffs and melodies that never seem in line with a song they are recording.
The intro to Fade to Black is also similar to intro of Pink Floyd's Goodbye blue sky (the wall) mashed up With Y&T's Rescue me's intro solo & Forever on the outro of Fade to black..🤔thanks for shedding light on that.
Blown away! When the unknown plays the riff they get no notice. When the mighty Metallica plays…. it It becomes their creation. Love your work. Metalhead unite
I wrote a song that was on my old Myspace account, and now has become know as Uncle Acid - Melody Lane. Makes me proud they were able to take my work and make it even better.
As a guitar player who tries to write new music, it seems like everything's been written already.
maybe so. Cheers!
That's got a lot of truth to it.
Agreed! True, tried and tested. Unless you go full on prog like Dream Theater that re-invented math into music, but who wants to do a third-degree equation to rock out to the music? 🙂
yea, at this point it's more about perfecting the recipe
it indeed was ...nowadays only variations of what have already been written
I’ve always thought that Metallicas “Am I evil” sounded eerily similar to Diamond Heads “Am I evil”…. I may be wrong. 🤪
OMG, you're right. ;) Cheers!
Lol
Very funny.
Its called a covering a song..they never said they wrote am I evil.. they even credit the original band and even paid them
@@maximusdesmund2072 I think it was a sarcastic comment
This makes me think of the Malcolm In The Middle episode where Malcom, jealous of Dewey's blossoming musical ability, pours his heart and soul into writing an original song... which the family promptly recognizes as just being the melody of the "Meow Mix" cat food advertising jingle.
Cheers!
Walter White faked his death at the end of Breaking Bad and entered the witness protection program - that's when Malcom in the Middle begins.
Pretty much all of the greatest music has come about by the artist combining multiple influences and blending them together into a new sound.
Cheers! 🤘
absolutely
Yes but not complete copies like Metallica.
@@martymartin2894People idolize musicians so of course they gonna be like nooo, not my hereos. It's okay to borrow rifd and change its tone, but this is obvious theft and nit just a couple of time, but basically every song. It's outrageous
@@masterofreality5528 I agree I didn't realize until I seen this video.
Most bands (purposely or accidentally) copy riffs they hear from other bands. It's rarely done with malice, IMO. Thanks for mentioning Y & T - underrated band.
Cheers!
Oh hell yeah, Dave Meniketti should be a much better known name.
Y&T Rocks!
Yes they are.
Bullshit.
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The fact that you put Sanitarium twice says a lot.
So also Bleak plagiarized Outlaws?
Fact is, you are evaluating this with the assumption that everything should be 100% original.
That's not the case, in fact, the opposite is true.
Any art form is an evolution, it borrows techniques, arrangement ideas, sounds, production breakthroughs from the best you have at that time, to push it to the next level.
Let's take "One" and by extension all "And Justice for all".
Yeah, they dod borrow the idea of fast kickdrum in sync with 0-0-0-0-0-0 palm muting, they translated into a production idea of having really high freqs on the kick drum for definition...
That caused the birth of a new era of music.
Fear factory expanded on that idea, Pantera also, in a different way, and then Meshuggah, and then thousands of bands.
The point is that when there is a good idea you don't dismiss it because "somebody did it already", you expand on that idea.
That's the basics of music evolution.
Plagiarism is when you simply copy something and the result is a lesser version of the original.
I just show the similarities, it's up to you to judge. I think it's from Bleakhouse, they have admitted to lifting that riff but they didn't mention the band.
@@RuthlessMetalYT
It's a comfortable position on guiitar that sounds good.
Sanitarium, One, and other countless songs use that as a base for arpeggios, and as I wrote in another comment, it's the ninth which made Every Breath You Take a hit.
It sound similar?
Of course it does, that's the point.
It has been used in 3 songs you found, and in 300.000 more you don't know about :)
Miglior commento che ho letto sull'argomento
@@ChristianIce don't listen about to ruthless metal, they act like they're unbiased but show a clear bias against Metallica in the comics
It's tough writing material as a guitarist. I remember playing a show and all of a sudden during a solo I had made up, the entire crowd blew up. Later, a fan came and told me it was so cool that I did a tribute. I found the song and it was something made two years after I wrote my solo, but I guess it found some footing in the metal world so I was now the copycat. Same happened with the Papa Roach last resort riff. I have a cassette of playing the riff in the mid 90s and countless videos of my band playing it at gigs from 96-99. It was released in 2000 and blew up.
Rough man, maybe some more of your riffs will turn out to be other bands hits.
Cheers!
If it makes you feel any better, the verse from Last Resort is identical to a song by Green Day, so they were copiers too!
As fans you're blind for the admiration but Metallica always sought be filthy commercial, the main songwriter always was D.M. and it's the proof that even in the second record thet took his stuff. C.B. never was a big deal, Lars always was a feelingless shark and James never had a true talent to compound, I guess that if Kirk had had the freedom to write honest songs.... a proud fate they had reached, but always was a lie, "o.k. let's do blow up this in money", etc. The reason is so clear until the day of today, the band in tour constantly without a record, a record each 5 years, with the name Metallica in many merch, etc. Sorry fans and me too, forever they were plastic heroes.
@@jonasiasfierroherrera3593 Stopped reading at "James never had a true talent to compound"
Me: spends months perfecting riffs and fine tuning them
Also Me: goes out and buys Van Halens new CD
Me again: "HOW DID VAN HALEN STEAL ALL MY RIFFS?? PLAGIARISM!!!!"
Cheers!
Good one!
Tell me about it! This happened to me in 1984! I'm STILL waiting to hear back from VH's lawyers!
:D
Chevelle stole a riff from me once somehow lol
This kind of things happens with multiple bands. There is only so much you can do playing in E and A.
Also, a little but important detail is that Metallica had "the magic" to make this songs big things, unlike most of the originals. That's another debate too
That would`ve been my comment, but you posted first! Cheers Miguel!
Cheers!
True they did make them better, but still tho, they should have given credit. I'd still listen to them.
I mean, its really no different from what Led Zeppelin did with some of their early material. Its also cool that Seek and Destroy is sort of a Frankenstein of their favorite metal at the time.
The Magic was on the hand of the production team. Lars and kirk are pretty weak musicians... If it wasn't for James..... I dunno if we would be talking.
Some kind of Monster doc showed us all that those guys are all in for the money and easy rock star status.
Man, bob rock composed almost every kirk's solo!!
The thing that gets me the most is when people cite multiple examples for one song, and fail to mention why the other bands aren’t plagiarizing each other.
Cheers! 🤘
What is called "plagiarism" here, I call "development". This is how life in general and art in particular works: You take inspiration from something or someone else, make it your own and something new emerges!
Sure, there is such a thing as plain plagiarism. But nothing presented in this video would qualify as such.
Nevertheless great video, because it shows where Metallica took their inspirations from!
Cheers!
I’m hearing the exact same notes and progression in a lot of these songs just maybe sped up a tad or slowed down.
@@joshkeisling I think in all the examples there was a significant difference in the melody, chord progression or rhythm. Yes, you could here in some of the examples, where the Idea came from, but it was different. The only two examples that were really close, were the ones from Y&T and Saxon, but the musical context, in which they were presented was totally different. Don't forget music is not just about a row of notes or progressions. It's mainly about the context in which they take place. You can have the exact same chord progression or melody and put them in a different context and the "feel" of the piece would drastically change. If this were not the case , we would"t have new music at all, cause everything would have been said already! Greetings from Germany!
I completely agree with your view! It's natural to interpret it as development, not plagiarism. But the video was very well produced and interesting. I think this level of quality is hard to produce. I respect the efforts of the creator.
@@joshkeisling some of them are the same notes, but these are almost completely different riffs. Something like you write a riff with a sound in your head and you don’t know where it came from, then boom there’s the two similar riffs that sanitarium was “based on”. It’s not just hard to write a song on a guitar, you also have limitations regarding to your hand, imagine that 1000’s of great musicians have to creat something good on a 12 by 4 template where your fingers can go only limited spaces. 99% of these are absolutely subconscious similarities
I do think the early Metallica was essentially a very competent/brilliant covers band. But they have always been honest about their roots/influences so fair play to them.
True, that's fair. Cheers!
More so than a lot of bands.
The giving credit where it is do, and bringing attention to and promoting the bands that excited them on the way up. All of the GARAGE DAYS albums attest to this. And how about t- shirts? All the Misfits shirts in the late 80's certainly got my attention and inspired me to check them out.
I actually started listening to Metallica because of the t- shirts the older kids on the skating scene would wear. Who the hell is this cool band with the skull images? Lol. When they dropped the ONE video they were already huge without any assistance from Empty V or radio.
That was real impressive.
My favorite years of the band were in the 1980's.
But when I hear a band say they are influenced by another, I think it means inspired to write music, not to copy theirs
No, they lied a lot about Dave’s contributions to the first two albums. In fact, when they recently released their reissues, Lars tried to take more writing credits away from Dave. That’s why he wouldn’t sign off on the project.
@@lawnmowerman7 you've obviously never heard of Led Zeppelin then
I believe that in song-writing, it is usually a case of sub-conscious 'plagiarism' where you have heard melodies/phrases/rhythms that stick in your brain and then those come out when you are writing, especially in a genre like this has a pretty tight circle of main influences
Cheers!
I completely agree with that. And I have done it.
In some cases, I get that. But, here, there are just too many examples. It is pretty blatant and obvious.
@@craighenry9512 even if there are many similar parts, Metallica always does a better job than the original, in my opinion. Thank God we got Metallica put on this earth!
Yes, i have written some cool riffs. Then a few weeks later i hear a song on spotify and go damn it it sounds like that riff! It’s called influence and it comes out sub consciously.
I knew that they borrowed stuff, but this is crazy to hear them all side by side like this
Cheers!
U mean stole.
@@martymartin2894 I mean, I hate to say it but music has existed from basically the dawn of time to now so almost any ideas artists come up with have been done before
Technically all notes have been played but still there are combinations and melody's that can be put together to still make a good song that's not a copy of something else. Although I'd agree it's probably much harder now than it was 30 or 40 yrs ago.
11:08 Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium is by far the biggest stretch. I've heard each song easily over 1,000 times in my life and never once that I think there was a similarity.
SAME RHYTHM
@@RuthlessMetalYT I can play both Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium on guitar, bass, AND drums - not to mention being able to sing both of them relatively well, and again - after almost 40 years I've not thought a similarity. There are COUNTLESS songs written in 7/8 time and neither of these makes me think of the other. \m/
The liner notes on Master of Puppets has a thank you to "Geddy, Alex, Neil of Rush". Plagiarism is pushing it, but I think there's an obvious link for inspiration there.
@@BradThePitts no offense but you must be deaf if you can’t hear the similarity.
It sounded more like Creeping Death
Hell, this even happened to me. I wrote a song for my band in high school (sometime in 2006-07,) and then All Hope is Gone by Slipknot came out. Imagine my surprise when the verse riff in Vendetta was damn near the same riff I wrote! It’s always going to happen, even if you have no idea
yeah it can happen by chance, but when it happens 20 times, you got a pattern. ;) Cheers!
I’m gonna assume you meant 2006-7 since AHIG came out in 08 (nvm, comment was fixed).
I wrote a song with my first real band. I was 16, the dudes in the band were all a little older, but we had good common ground and there was some genuine chemistry. I remember writing the skeleton for a song sitting at the foot of my bed. My buddy who got me into reading Dune had just passed away and I wrote this really intense piece that revolved around this middle-eastern sounding melody, I was just thinking of my friend and the riffs came. I took it to the band and we worked it into an amazing song. It was the longest, progiest song we’d ever written. The lyrics even covered some of the themes of Dune’s Butlerian Jihad. Anyway, we played it for a year and we were still jazzed on it and about to record it, then a song with a nearly identical riff called “Chop Suey” hit the radio and becomes the biggest song in the whole world. That song was inescapable for the next year and a half and I wanted to die every time I heard it.
AHIG was released in 2008
One time I came up with this cool clean riff. Then another day I heard A room with a view by Death Angel. Imagine my confusion hearing the intro riff as it was like 95% similar to the doodle I came up with and I'd never heard them before
If Metallica ever said they’ve never heard of Diamond Head or never listed to Saxon, you could call this malicious, but they’ve always talked about their influences. Hard to consider that “stealing.”
It's still theft if you admit to it.
@@RuthlessMetalYT Not if you admit it before the composition. Anyway, it's nothing new under the sun. The same books, the same screenplays, the same music. Whitehead (the guy who wrote with Bertrand Russel ''Principia Mathematica'') said: “The safest general characterization of all the Western philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato'' - in more then 2000 years, nothing much happened, we've just reanalyzed Plato. Maybe that is all we can.
@@RuthlessMetalYT dude majority of these you’re grasping at straws. I listened to this with an open ear/mind and I would say 98% is a stretch on your part.
@@RuthlessMetalYT the “admitting” part is where you’re running into problems. They didn’t steal riffs verbatim, but they did heavily incorporate a LOT of other artists’ material as they crafted their own musical style. That’s called INFLUENCE. Or HEAVY influence if you like. Right now, we are using words to communicate, words that other people created. The mere act of speaking or typing is theft under your definitions. You are breathing air that you didn’t create, eating food that you didn’t create. Being alive itself is then theft.
@@Chefmike7545 I agree. Totally grasping at straws for many of them. Not all, but many. I mean, Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium? Maybe a few notes are the same, and played with the same cadence, but hearing one song does not make me think of the other. Is no band allowed to play a "dun-nun dun-naaaaaaaaa" anymore now?
Well done, thank you! Some "inspirations" are clearly obvious, others not that much, but its there. Metallica was indeed inspired and took some of their sound and made its theirs. The best part is Dave Mustaine describing 4:33 Sweet Home Alabama LOL :D
Cheers!
"we're all just sharing riffs!" - Dimebag Darrell
Cheers!
I think a lot of songs get created when you're trying to learn another band's song but you make some mistakes and realize that you've come up with a good riff by just noodling around.
Cheers!
That's how we used to do it.
As a bass player, it has happened to me
some of these sound literally stolen, others just inspired. as a composer i can say this happens all the time unconsciously, your memory just plays tricks on you making you believe you just came up with an idea but it's just a song you already listened to. it's specially hard to spot when you listen to 10 different bands every day but most of the times i notice when something sounds way too similar and i just delete the song out of guilt
Cheers!
Except Dave tells the sweet home Alabama story. Some sound stolen others don't but only Dave, I think, tells the truth 🤔
It's all about Sigmund Freud's theory of the subconscious. Thing enter it and break down, eventually reformulating into their own existence.
Lots of distortion and anything can sound 'inspired'
@@jayadams2771 that's not how music works
Metallica have never shyed away from their inspirations. Lars even released a compilation cd in 1990 with a lot of NWOBHM songs that inspired Metallica.
Some of the songs they've covered also gave those bands new fans and bigger audiences
Cheers!
Inspirations.
Metallicas catalog includes about 45% cover songs. Count them if you don’t believe me. So inspiring
@@YomommasStankPoon Yes Inspirations.
@@deletedhero5579 If they were simply paying tribute to a bands almost identical riff and/or got the idea for a riff from a band, then they would have credited each band, and the song they used the almost identical riff or idea on, inside each record's sleeve.
Plagiarism - take (the work or an idea of someone else) and pass it off as one's own.
That is exactly what Metallica did. They never credited any song specifically. Lars just generalized what bands he was influenced by and even said how he borrowed this and that. But he never specifically gave credit to any particular song and/or riff.
@@rilenixx Because they weren't exact copies just similar. Its why during a 40 years career they have never once been sued
Absolutely great video as always. I think of « National Acrobat » from Black Sabbath that was probably an influence for « Fade To Black » as well.
thanks boss. Cheers!
As long as they write a different song from a familiar riff, I'm okay with it. Appropriating riffs and licks is as old as the guitar is.
Cheers!
When I was a teenager (long time ago) I was into Metallica as well as other metal bands. I remember playing an idea to my friends who accused me of ripping off Slayer. At that point I hadn’t ever listened to a Slayer song lol. I soon rectified that 😉
hehe Cheers!
My friends like Natalya know I ripoff Metallica, Megadeth and basically every Thrash Metal and NWOBHM band one bass riff I played sounded similar to the trooper by Iron Maiden.
that happened to me as well! I came up with a couple of riffs back in the day. one was very close to for whom the bell tolls (before I even heard the song) and the other one to megadeaths she Wolf (even before that song came out). So yeah, it can happen.
@@rfdc it’s all cliche anyways lol
Same. I had the exact riff to Jesus Saves before I heard it.
This is so dope, those original bands are amazing!
Cheers!
A friend of mine who both plays guitar as well as performs stand up comedy once told me, "Nothing new under the sun, my friend. There are only twelve notes on a guitar and six basic premises for jokes in all of history. It's only a matter of time before someone writes something that sounds like something somebody else wrote."
Cheers!
Which are the 6 basic premises for jokes??
@@half-tonjo3729
1. Farts
2. Loud farts
3. Silent farts
4. My child farted
5. My wife farted
6. Smashing fruit with a big hammer
Though it may be true that they borrowed in certain cases I think everyone who writes Heavy Metal tunes can agree that it often can happen that you write a riff that's very similar to something a band has written you've never even heard of. Especially with the acoustic stuff, sometimes you just fiddle around shifting power chords on the fretboard, playing an open note in between and you end up with something similar to Sanitarium. So, I really don't think a lot of that stuff can be labeled plagiarism. That said, especially with the NWOTHM there's a lot of bland plagiarism going on sadly.
Cheers!
I can agree with you on that happening but, I think it's a little more than obvious that quite a few of these songs are more than a coincidence that they sound simular. If this were another band that you never heard of or liked and watched this video, I'm sure your opinion would change. Bias is a natural thing so I don't hold that against you but you really need to try and be neutral on these types of things. I really like Metallicas albums up thru master of puppets and I can even hear it plain as day. Have a good one.
You dont see videos like this about megadeth songs but there is no shortage of metallica vids like this
@@MentaIPatient in some cases, yes I agree. I always thought it can't be possible that Metallica themselves didn't realize that the Fade to Black middle section sounds like A National Acrobat by Sabbath. But I think sometimes it's not intentionally but a case of writing something and realizing at a later point that it may unintentionally be borrowed from elsewhere
@@ronpaul1082 never a shortage of salty megadeath fans on a metallica vid haha
Some are obviously ripped off, some are standard riffs that appear on many other songs in various variations. For example, the "Tom Saywer" riffs also appears of Blind Guardian's "Lost in the Twilight Hall", Iced Earth's "Melancholy" and Kreator's "Enemy of God".
Cheers!
good taste man. tales is such an underrated album other than altair 4 and tommyknockers lol. lost in the twilight hall, traveler in time, lord of the rings, last candle, etc...
@@dbubc6345 Altair 4 and Tommyknockers are both very good songs. It's just that the former ends halfway though, seemingly, and the latter has a somewhat silly chorus (but it also has that awesome melodic lead and amazing verses).
And of course, Lost in the Twilight Hass is one of the best songs ever written, just for that chorus and pre-chorus solo alone. Mindblowingly brilliant.
Your metal band pathology just covered me blindly lmao.
@@BlindBosnian thx for the recommendation..I just watched Twighlight Hall, live in Stuttgart '02, and it is EPIC!
Cool that they took elements of stuff that was out there and made it their own. Every band is inspired by someone
Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT x2
Sabbath 😁
Complete copies is different
@@martymartin2894 most bands have a few that they copied to some measure: Beatles, Pink Floyd, Megadeath, pretty much all of them, and of course Zeppelin.
same goes for most movies, books, etc.
the question is how much is copied, or modified, was it intentional, did they give credit.
most of Metallica's good stuff was original, and the stuff they modified was way better, so they get a pass. although i think behind the scenes they should probably should have paid some bands.....and who knows, they probably did to avoid lawsuits
I think you make a pretty good case for most of the riffs you presented. I usually don’t listen to music close to the genre I play when I’m writing. That seems to help. One thing I really believe is, James and Lars were lost after Cliff died. It’s never been the same.
Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT Cheers!
glub glub glub… BURP!!!
Not sure what gives you that idea, other than perhaps you just don't like what they did after Cliff died.
@@normie2716 cliff was the rudder in certain respects, I don't care for his bass playing, but after he was gone, it became a new Metallica, for me everything after reload is shot except when I feel charitable and listen to some songs from death magnetic.. cliff and newsted we're the heart of Metallica.
If you check out Metallica's early stuff and Diamond Head's live performance, you can see where Metallica got all of their early influence. Everything from the look and sound
Yes, it amazes me. DH is like proto-tallica.
@@TheCyberMantis except for a ton of new bands the literally try to be next periphery or animals as leaders or meshuggah.
@@TheCyberMantis well my general concern about today's bands is that they no longer have anything to say in their songs.
And i feel that contributes largely to the copycatism.
You wrote a song about cats, i write a song about cats. You used this gear to play it, i will use the same gear.
You played this chord sequence i will play the sam sequence with a pause at the end of every second measure.
You have a 7 string guitar, i have an 8 string guitar. But will just play an open bottom string for 80% of the song.
I feel if a band does not have anything to convey they are sentenced to a copy of a copy of a copy.
In death metal alone in ghe 80s and 90s , death had songs about society dillemas, deicide praised satan with chugging and tremolo riffs, morbid angel also praised satan but in a more threistic fashion and completely different approach to write their riffs, cannibal corpse sang pretty much a b class slasher movie , again with their own sound vocabulary
And that was just one genre of metal. Can i tell the same about todays metal... Nope , its freaking repetarive. Rhere is a lot of smaller bands that break this vicious cycle, which i hope will have a. Hance to be big one day
yeah. they have covered a ton of DH songs over the years. pretty much the whole first album of theirs. Cheers!
Exactly...
Amazing research work. There is a lot of similarities but Metallica has always sited those bands as influences. I think that to blame them of plagiarism we would have to start on all the medieval compositions or all the great bluesmen.
thanks, Cheers!
lie to yourself. but most of these are deliberate plagiarism
@@cj5787 no it isnt.
@@cj5787 dude nah its all love listen to crime for revenge by ultra violent then listen to kill em all. Metallica loves punk bands hell James wore a damn Misfit shirt all the time. That's how I found out about that band lol
@@stanzaloan3454 so you have no ears.
Alright, so I appreciate the level of depth you put into this video. This is something that I fight with a lot in my own music. However, any musician is inspired from certain artists/songs and simply put, there only 12 notes in the modern musical alphabet (aside from microtonal alphabet). You can try and try and try to write something different, but chances are someone else has written and played that sequence of notes before. Whether they are a multi-national musical touring band, or someone in their basement who forgets the riff tomorrow. Whether it's slower or faster, or even in a different key or transposed lower of high, that sequence of "musical steps" has been played before. Then you take into account that these bands are trying to fit within a particular musical style. And in thrash metal, you (normally) have to play quick rhythms with catchy riffs. Metal is full of these similarities. If you listen to modern heavy metal, death metal, black metal, math metal, blah blah blah.. you'll hear the same note (the lower open string(s) a thousand times in each song. Is that stealing a riff? Is meshuggah copying metallica when they play "Bleed" because "Seek and Destroy" has a lot of muted open string plucks in between their riffs? No.
Arguing that someone "stole" a riff that sounds similar but clearly isn't the same is like saying Picasso stole an idea for his painting, "The Weeping Woman", because a caveman drew a face on a wall way before anyone else did. "Oh that song has a guitar solo over an acoustic playing chords. I know another song that did that. Must have stolen the idea." "oh, this band used a snare drum on the 2nd and 4th beat in the song. I know a band that did that already. Must have stolen it." It's not theft, it's simply artists making art with what they have. And music only has 12 notes to choose from.
Sure, similarities can happen but when it's like 20 examples and Metallica listened to all of these bands, Then I think we got a pattern. Cheers! 🤘🏻
Unwritten rule in art, music and writing:
It's not who does it first, it's who does it best.
If you are not an artist writer of musician, you will never understand this.
I disagree. You can't just take a Metallica album and call it your own.
I really like this video. Shows a lot where Metallica came from. Good job finding the similarities and the interviews! (This video also helped me find more good music so thanks again haha)
Thanks man! 🤘
I know..I just heard Blind Guardian, Lost in the Twighlight Hall for the first time, thanks to this comment string....and I am blown away!
I was late to the party with Iron Maiden too ( I know...shame on me, what kind of metal head am I?! etc!😆. And the truth is, I'm actually not a metalhead - though I do love some metal. Hard Rock, Grunge, Alternative, Emo, Punk, Prog..Heavy metal ..HAIR Metal..lol! Industrial metal (NIN )...Nu metal.. Classic Rock..Blues..Jazz...Classical some Pop Dubstep...and whatever the Prodigy was.. yeah, broad taste..but never would I say I'm a metalhead), and I rate this as equal "blown away" factor as I have been with Maiden this year. And that's a LOT!
Great job. One thinks one knows metal roots, only to see great metal songs before it all blew out in the mid eighties…
Anggada Arya Palastra: honestly this was probably the best take away from this video! kudos to you for being a bit smarter than the average fan here!
In all fairness, I think a lot of these were just similar phrasing. Though some are pretty blatantly copied, I think The Unforgiven is reaching. The most blatant is The Four Horsemen/Sweet Home thing and despite what Mustaine says, James was aware of the similarity. I'm also not totally sold on Fade To Black or The Unforgiven II, there are only so many notes that work over that chord progression. The worst offender here is Seek And Destroy, because it is clearly a mashup of different songs from other bands.
Mustaine literally said in his Gibson Icons interview that he and Cliff were listening to Sweet Home Alabama and decided to use the riff in what is now The Four Horsemen
Cheers!
@@wcnmvp3820 Well, Dave used the Skynrd riff as a joke is the way I understand it. He switched it up slightly so that it wouldn't be too blatant.
Totally agree, I was in a band when I was in my teens and my guitarist wrote a clean intro almost identical to the call of ktulu intro, but he never listened to the song in his life, I also have a song I play that ended up being the same chord progression as nothing else matters, but I didn't even know how to play that song at the time lol yet you can sing all of nothing else matters over my song easily, and I'll admit we did take fragments of riffs back in the day to fit into our own riffs, we took things from, metallica, danzig, motorhead, motley crue, Alice in chains etc.
2 Diamond Head songs, Saxon, Raven and Venom.
If you liked this, check the first seconds of:
Iron Maiden - The Wickerman (2000)
Judas Priest - Running Wild (1978)
Cheers!
Identical, wow!
I said it back in 2001 after Rock in Rio, and no one believed me. Thing is I had the Priest song as "Unknown Artist - Track 11", so it was hard to prove. With Google I finally found the name. Nice one bruh.
Debunking your theories (or agreeing with them):
The riff from Rainbow Theory ends on a D followed by a C, where as the riff in "Sanitarium" ends on an A and a G. Therefore the two are different.
I shouldn´t even mention the "Sucking your Love" and "Seek and Destroy" one because they´re clearly very different both in pace, key and form. If anything, the chord progression in "Sucking Your Love" sounds more like something out of an Iron Maiden song.
The intro to "Fade to Black" and the solo bit from "Rescue Me" you played are played in different keys and the rhythm guitars are playing completely different riffs. Holding a tone on a guitar isn´t plagiarism and suggesting that it is so is ridiculous. The chord structure over the solo in "Forever" is much, much more complicated and is as different as night and day from that in "Fade to Black". All they have in common is that a fast guitar solo is played over them.
"Sweet Home Alabama" & "The Four Horsemen"! Come on! One is played in the style of a Southern Blues rock song while the other is played as an 80´s style heavy metal riff! Plus if you were gonna go after everyone that used a D-C-G chord progression in their song, you could do a ten hour video on that alone and still not come close to even covering the American bands that used it. Plus Metallica´s song goes D-C-D-Gsus4-G, not D-C-G so you can´t say that they´re the same in any way.
As far as the "Darkness Descends" and "One" parts go, you do know that the E chord is used extensively in pretty much all Metal Music, right? RIGHT? I will give you that the use of the G chord in the two songs are practically the same, but that´s about all I´ll give you.
"Sleeps With Thunder" and "All Nightmare Long" are structured the same way as far as the first part of the riff goes, but the tail end of the two riffs are still too different to call them too similar, that it´s plagiarism on Metallica´s part.
Those particular parts of "Over My Dead Body" and "Through the Never" are perhaps the closest I will say you are to being 100 % right in this video. The rest of the two songs are very different though.
Both the guitars on "Green Grass and High Tides" and "Sanitarium" use a heavy chorus effect, that was extremely popular in the 70´s and 80´s. Pretty much every guitar player used them, but it´s not unlikely that Flemming Rasmussen suggested it to James during the recordings based on having heard that song, if he had ever listened to "The Outlaws", who you can´t exactly say was in any way a famous band. As far as the two riffs go, they´re completely different except for the opening chord, which is the same.
As far as the "Get Stoned" and "Enter Sandman" parallel, you are aware that a slow building intro wasn´t anything new in the early 90´s and had been used since the days of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath, I hope? Plus there´s no pumping of the drums to build up to the "rock explosion" that you have in Sandman and the complexity of the main riff in "Get Stoned" is ten times more complex than the very simple riff in "Enter Sandman". I would say that it´s like comparing a Rush song to a Ramones song, that uses a few of the same chords.
Not that I think Metallica were listening to what I guess would be an at the time unreleased demo of some unknown band in 1988, when they were busy touring the world on the "And Justice for All Tour", but I´ll play along! Also the chords in the first one (I couldn´t make out the band name) is Am-C-G-Am, where as "Unforgiven" is Am-C-G-Em and the lead guitar on the first one sounds like something being played by a 14 year old, who´s trying to play lead guitar on a metal song for the first time ever! All he does is follow the Minor Scale, that is one of the first ones you learn. Does Metallica do this too in "Unforgiven", yes, but it is a very commonly used scale to use! Plus I won´t deny that Metallica could have heard it, but I have to call it as highly unlikely since it´s not even an official release.
As for the intros to "Set the Stage Alight"and "Hit the Lights", I´m sure you can find many, many rock songs from the 70´s that "Began with an Ending" and the chords used are completely different.
The idea for the two respective solos in "Princess of the Night" and "Seek and Destroy" are clearly the same with it being sort of a back and forth between the two guitars with the rhythm guitarist playing his bit, then the lead guitarist does his bit, then it goes back to the rhythm guitarist and so on. Plus the chords used are pretty much the same, so I´ll give you that they´re similar in many ways. It´s also one of those songs it´s not unlikely that they would have all heard at some point. As far as the verse parts in "Dead Reckoning" and "Seek and Destroy", they´re pretty similar too and since they were all Diamond Head fans, you could say that they borrowed a little from that part. There´s still enough differences that I wouldn´t say they´re the same, but they are similar.
The only thing I´ll give you on the "Tom Sawyer" and "Sanitarium" comparison though is that the guitar uses three fast strokes, followed by a downstroke, that´s held for the rest of the bar for that one bit on both of the songs. Not that a hundred bands hadn´t already been inspired by that bit from Alex Lifeson and used it their own way many times in the 11 years between "Tom Sawyer" and "Sanitarium" being released. The chords aren´t even the same or close to it either, so I would call it a no on that one! Just because something is played with a slight bit of the same feel, doesn´t make it the same.
As far as "Children of the Damned" goes and that bit from "Unforgiven II", that´s about four seconds in the build up to a solo you played! If Kirk wants to borrow those four seconds from Adrian Smith, not that he even does, because Kirk plays those notes as chords in his build up, where as Adrian only plays one string at a time on that bit, it´s fine by me!
And that´s how you end up spending almost three hours watching a thirteen minute video LOL!
damn, that's a full letter. ;) the sanitarium riff they have admitted to lifting, but never mentioning the band, which I think is bleak house.
I think you could do this for almost any other bands. There aren’t many great riffs that didn’t draw from bands before them.
then give me an example, I dont think there is another band that stole 20 riffs.
@@RuthlessMetalYT zeppelin dazed and confused ..... Zeppelin stole a FULL SONG from a published album. Pete Holmes acoustic. AND most their riffs. Which is aweful because they have SO much talent. Especially Plant.
Honestly, Metallica isn't musically that learned. They had to work hard to do their thing. Dave mustaine is the most natural musician of all of them. I think they changed it up and used the material enough in their own way its not plagerism. BUT DAMN, THIS VIDEO GIVES AWAY THE SONGS THEY USED TO MAKE THEIR STUFF. Great video. Continuously bettering oneself at music by dedicating oneself for a lifetime, (JAZZ MUSICIANS,) makes for unlimited original ideas and creation. Metallica just played metal , Did theIr thing and spent their time touring etc. Not learning and moving on. They're limited. This video is an example of this. BUT HONESTLY, PUPPETS AND .... AND JUSTICE FOR ALL ARE GODLIKE ALBUMS AND WHY I WILL ALWAYS LOVE METALLICA. Music is a matter of taste and opinion. (Dave's Lars impression is fuggin awesome!!).
@Frank Lopez Im cool with it, they didn't steal an entire song like Zeppelin. That shit makes me sick.
@Frank Lopezawesome, i will
That Stone & Enter Sandman comparison was really startling. At first I thought it was a little silly. Then the rest of the riff kicked in. Holy hell.
Yeah I think Stone opened up for Metallica in Finland. Cheers!
To me metallica had a similar riff at first but metallica had an extra note and when I noticed that it made it seem less alike
Get Stoned by Stone + Tapping into the emotional void by Excel = Enter Sandman
Kirk's original Sandman riff had only the first part, and later they added the ending, so it got the 3 + 1 structure. Which is pretty common structure in rock. I think this is an accident, even if the intervals and structure are somewhat similar.
Listen to Excel “Tapping into the Emotional Void” and tell which is closer.
One thing I discovered while attempting to write music was that things would come out of me and I'd think they were super cool and that I was amazing. Then 3 years later I'd hear a song I hadn't heard in a while and whoops, ripped off that little phrase there. We're all like that. There is almost no true innovation. Our subconscious chops up what we're exposed to and pieces it back together in a somewhat lumpy blend. You especially find this out as you get older when nearly EVERY new piece of media seems to be mostly an amalgam of things you've already been exposed to. And that's no surprise, because it is. The only unfamiliar parts are just coming from things that person enjoys or experienced that you've never seen or heard before.
Yes Sir, that can definitely happen
The real disapointment is that this could be considered a friendly exchange of riffs and ideas, refining old and making it new, but only had metallica not led the charge against stealing music like a bunch of hypocrites.
Cheers!
Ahhh the old Napster days... FVCK METALLICA again.
Thats how you make a living when youre a recording artist is by record sales well it used to be til things like napster ruined it.. almost everyone in the music industry supported lars stance on it. And look where we are now musicians earn .03 cents per spotify play. Not 3 cents but .03 cents… now nobody buys CDs or records anymore
@@michaelsanseverino999 you are absolutely correct
My thoughts exactly the whole time I as watching this.
Lars: We need to slow this one down
Dave: 🙄
hehe
Yeah but you have to admit the four horsemen is way better then Mechanix no matter how much slower it is. I mean Mechanix is a OK song, but the four horsemen is a journey through hell and back
@@lonewolfrides314 I don't HAVE to admit that.
@@GreyRock100 ok
@@lonewolfrides314 yeah, for me that sweet home Alabama part gives the edge to four horsemen. And of course lyrics are way better too
Mustaine said he took the Skynyrd licks/riffs and put them in a song to troll Lars, as Ulrich wanted that sound for a song.
🤘
@@RuthlessMetalYT I see you have Mustaine's story in the description section. That is the video, his interview with Trunk, from which i remembered.
It's been said since the beginning of music creation: good musicians write, great musicians steal. No Zeppelin, Beatles or Stones with stealing from the Great Bluesman, Waters, Dixon and Johnson. It can be called evolution or homage or theft. But, every generation begets the next
Cheers!
Man, thanks for the work you did on this subject.
As a musician who plays metal a lot, I can say that almost all the riffs from "Kill 'em all" totally were borrowed from other bands.
But to compare Tom Sawyer and Sanitarium riffs is a little bit ridiculous, these riffs sound in a song in a very different way, I mean the feel they create.
And though Stone's song and Enter Sandman really have the same structure, the melodies are different, so I would consider this as "intentional reference", it's not stealing by the law.
No one actually says that drum patterns were stolen from another bands, because drums usually have a narrow range of figures inside a genre. In metal music guitars play almost same role, I mean their main goal is to make "bang", and there are not so many ways of doing so.
Anyway, your content is cool.
thanks boss. Yeah I think the rhythm guitar is similar in the Tom Sawyer song. They also thanked Rush on the liner notes of Puppets. So maybe. ;)
Another point, and it's been mentioned a few other ways: I think it was Mark Prindle or George Starostin that said there's only so far you can go in rock or pop before you inadvertently plagiarize. Theres only like around 150+ actual notes on a guitar fretboard. Limited by blues structures, Western intonation, and conventional song progressions, eventually you'll rip someone off. (This opinion was probably plagiarized 😆)
Cheers!
"Well ackshully" there's only TWELVE notes on the guitar fretboard. They're there in different octaves, but it's still only a dozen notes.
Anyway, yes, you're correct.
Others have said, "If you play metal, you're stealing from Black Sabbath, period. You may play it faster or slower but they already wrote it all years ago, really."
Mark Prindle is a legend. Haven’t heard the name for awhile. One of the guys who along with Lester Bangs, Robert Palmer (the writer not singer), and only a few others who belong in the pantheon of great music writers
Still, you have to admit the sheer number of possible borrowed riffs is staggering but ith this band.
@@themadmattster9647 I know- wish he'd resurface and start writing again. Starostin has dropped off too. Most rock critics seem to focus on prog or whoever is plagiarizing Dave Grohl this week, there are not as many who focus solely on metal.
The bottom line is that they made it their own and played it as Metallica! I still will always love them 🤘🏼
Cheers!
We'll never stop, we'll never quit cause we're METALLICA!!!!
This is a fascinating video. I had no idea!
cheers!
Great video, love the channel. Another mention is Venom’s Black Metal and Phantom Lord off Kill ‘Em All. Can hear echoes of Venom on the whole record though tbh.
thanks boss, Cheers!
Some were pretty clear, some other may have been a mere inspiration. However, I think it's impossible to not write something that doesn't sound alike to some song that you've ever listened to. I sometimes improvise these amazing metal riffs, only to realize afterwards that they are ripoffs from Metallica, Megadeth, Death, Iron Maiden or some other band that I often listen to.
Great vid, the "Sweet Home Alabama" part was pretty hilarious. They straight forward stole that riff lmfao.
cheers
WOW! A couple here and there is one thing but this is ridiculous. When Kirk says they bring riff tapes to the studio to record new records i dident realize those tapes were other bands.
hehe. yeah
😆 That comment made my day!
The funny part is that when buttrockers Papa Roach had a hit, Kirk made a big deal about how they were just ripping off old Maiden licks.
OH RLY, Kirk? Really now. OK, buddy. lmao
@@dogslobbergardens6606 lol @ "buttrockers." 😆
@@dogslobbergardens6606 Hahaha buttrockers...
The song last resort's riff is exactly the same as a riff on the seventh son of a seventh album. To be fair with Kirk's lack of involvement in songwriting who knows if he even knows.
omg!!! that interview w/ Dave Mustaine talking about Lars and the Sweet Home Alabama riff in Four Horseman!!! 😆🤣
Cheers!
😮!!! I have been a big metallica fan since the 90s and I never knew any of this !!! Omg! You are so right !! It cannot be denied !
Cool, I've made three videos on the subject so there are more evidence. ;) Cheers!
Some of the similarities are uncanny, and some I would say are just similar progressions that bear a strong resemblance. Did they steal some riffs? Probably. Are most of these examples "stolen" in that sense? Probably not. As tuned into the metal underground as Metallica were, particularly early on, I very much doubt they were jamming early Dark Throne demos, so I'm guessing that's mere coincidence. But there are a few examples you cited that raise an eyebrow. There are only so many simple riffs you can play, so until you start getting into Voivod territory, where you're playing complex jazz chords and lengthy riff structures, or into the more progressive djent territory with riffs that seem to go on for an hour, you're going to see a lot of overlap in basic riff structure. It's not unlike videos you see detailing how a very large percentage of top radio hits all use the same 3 or 4 basic chords. It's not just a formula, though there's an element of that in popular music, particularly now with so few songwriters doing most of the work. But people who write music tend to distill what they hear elsewhere, so like any other style of music, metal becomes a bit of a feedback loop at some point with bands influencing each other to the point where their sounds all get watered down, unless they bring in other influences or shift their direction somewhat. That's why I appreciate stuff like "Spheres" by Pestilence, or the natural progression of a band like Anacrusis, where they never sound the same from one album to the next, and always do something a little different each time, even if you can hear the common thread throughout.
Anacrusis rocks
Cheers!
I could hear the Metallica track as the source track was being played!
Glad to see Metal Church getting some love. Massively underrated.
Cheers!
MC are definitely not underrated. Anyone thats a little bit familiar with metal knows them. If someone is into mainstream stuff then yeah he definitely wouldn't know them
Grateful for this video solely because I just discovered Dark Angel and I can’t believe these guys didn’t become massive. All killer no filler 👌🏻
Legends of the underground. Cheers!
If it makes you feel better, the guy who wrote that Dark Angel song is one of the top hired gun drummers in metal
I believe what held them back was their propensity to try to cram 10,000 lyrics in every song. The over abundance of lyrics minimized the sections of the songs where just the instruments were audible, thus stifling each songs main riff/chord from laying down it's distinct foundation, which in my opinion in one of the keystones to building more memorable songs that reach mass appeal.
Dude, the song "Bored" by Death Angel is in my all time top 10.
I guess the question becomes: how much of this was done knowingly and how much was sort of a sub conscious thing. Or even just an accident. I had a highschool band and one day I was listening to Dimmu Borgir and literally the same exactly bridge riff, picking rhythm and all came on from one of my songs. So it DOES happen. There's only so many riffs. But I will admit there are a lot of examples here lol
That Saxon Princess of the Night/Seek and destroy pair-up is pretty exact 😬
Cheers!
A good artist borrows but a great artist steals. An old lesson.
maybe so. :)
But a truly great artist also gives credit where credit is due. Lars doesn’t seem to like doing that.
@@craighenry9512 Metallica gives great praise to their idols. Not sure what makes ya think different
@@craighenry9512 what you think garage inc was?
Great con artist
every metal band is basically a Black Sabbath cover band since they wrote the best riffs
Cheers!
My 1st guitar player used to say all the time..."There are only so many frets on a guitar, so sooner or later songs will eventually start sounding the same ". Some of these songs sound very close to me , so I can see how plagiarism comes into play. Nothing wrong with being influenced I'm influenced by many drummers and different genres. However where do you draw the between influence and plagiarism? To me this is good conversation no need to get your feelings in it. I don't see any lawsuits coming it's not worth it, besides majority of those bands are not around and don't have the success of Metallica.
Cheers!
4:32 Well, pretty sure this sums up Metallica's songwriting: they'll take anything that sounds good then tweak it to make it their own.
I'm not mad, I'm not gonna hate on these guys. Videos like these are fascinating, and a really good way to find lesser known bands with great riffs.
Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT 07:49 Irish influenced intro 08:07 Fanfare type thing 09:07 Chromatix
Hey, man, if the bands themselves were mad at having their work being changed slightly by Metallica wouldn't we be hearing about it? Especially after Pharell Williams got sued over that Robin Thicke song sounding like another song. Seems like these lesser known bands could get royalties or whatever if they were mad about it.
I will listen to dave doing lars impression all day🤣
Cheers!
His Lars impression sucks. Jim Breuer's is great.
The Saxon “Princess of the Night” one is about as blatant as you can get.
Cheers!
The most undeniable copying of all, surely? It's documented that Metallica were Saxon fans as well. Metallica opened for Saxon on tour in about 1982.
Kill ‘em all definitely seems like the worst offender. I still excuse it because they were literally teenagers who were NWOBHM fanboys. And I don’t really care THAT much about post 88 Metallica. I believe they heard Dark Angel for sure though One is still a great song. To me the most sellout thing Metallica did was jump back to metal when it was cool again after bashing it in the nineties. To me that’s something that deserves huge scorn. I know Halford and others did the same thing but something irritated me more about Metallica doing it. I’ll never forget the Rolling Stone 1994(?) interview with Lars where he said he had been “soaking up records by Alanis Morissette and Oasis”. It’s all right to have an open mind but that interview was a bad sign of what was to come
And Saxon was big right when they were starting!
Terrific job man. Kudos.
Thanks cheerios
A real eye opener for the casual listener ,thanks
Cheers!
Most of these bands are working in harmonic minor, which can often blend from band to band. In the case of YnT, Dave Meniketti was the top dog in the Bay Area guitar scene in the early 80’s. So it would make sense that players would go and see him live. We always went to see them when they came to Sacramento, hell, i even opened two shows for them, in 2012 and 2015. Even Metallica toured with YnT on the Ride the Lightning tour.
But, i feel when everyone is kind of writing in the same mode, you’re going to get similarities. I find i write songs, then hear something from a large band I’ve never heard, and can pick out things that are similar, even though i wasn’t at all influenced.
Yeah, Y&T was huge but when thrash took over they kinda got left behind. Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT they’re doing what all the 80’s bands are; still playing the classics all over the world.
I forgot Y&T was from that area, and Metal Church started in Washington, moved to San Francisco, then moved back to the Seattle area, so I am sure they knew them well too.
@@craighenry9512 Rest In Peace, Mike Howe. Wonderful guy. I was fortunate enough to be there when he auditioned for Metal Church. He was very good. One of my life’s regrets was not auditioning myself. Should have done it. But, that’s life- i just wasn’t in the same headspace musically, then. But my band did rehearse in Metal Church’s studio, so we got to hang out and see quite a few of the singer auditions
Another one is the outro riff in Sabbath's "Fairies Wear Boots", the riff before the verse in "For Whom The Bell Tolls" are extremely similar
Cheers!
The stories of both songs say are very different.
Their both metal bands. Metallica needs to stop playing metal so they don't sound like other bands. Lol
The lick kirk is playing is exactly the same .
Also the descending of Master of puppets main riff is War Pigs.
The middle of Fade to Black is National Acrobat..
The riff after is Eagle has landed by Saxon .
Whiplash is Witching Hour and Bursting out by Venom crossed.
Memory remains is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath...
Its not accidents, because they took the big Hook axes of the songs .
They could be more subtile.
Poop smells different depending on who shat it
Great job on your comparisons.
Thanks man! Cheers!
Some of these are pretty obvious. Others aren't. Some are fairly obscure and difficult to pick out. This is quite interesting! Something I notice is that, in many of these, the riffs are enhanced or played differently, which I generally prefer. Does that justify "borrowing" the riffs? I don't know. Thanks for the interesting videos!
Cheers!
When newer bands did this kind of things, a lot of oldschool metalheads (or metal elitists) would say “oh they are just a ripped off metallica band”. But when Metallica did this, all these comments are very positive about them. Don’t get me wrong, I love Metallica. It’s just sad to see the double standard applied because one is an older band than another.
I love it when I hear influence in music. Artists have been using bits and pieces of other artists music for years so I see nothing wrong when anybody does it.
Because Metallica made it sound better than the original
Yes, people get blinded if they are into something. They can't keep 2 thoughts in their minds at once. I for example love Metallica but it's also obvious that they lifted riffs and passages from their favourite bands. Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT Couldn’t agree more! Love the video btw!
@@reccos2412 It's exactly the other way around, Shitallica makes worse music than the bands they steal music from.
Hardwire... To Self-Plagiarism
🤘
hi,which song influenced " orion" does anybody know? i would love to hear it soooooo much!!
it's in one of my videos. UFO.
@@RuthlessMetalYT wow thanks!! can't wait to hear.
This has happened to me. Ive written many songs only to find out other songs sound similar also ive had the reverse where ive written a song then a year or two later a band comes out with very similar riffs.
Cheers!
I love Metallica, but "Fade to Black" has the same riff as Pink Floyd's "Goodve Blue Sky." Plenty of bands have borrowed (with and WITHOUT consent) from others, Ted Nugent said that everything he did was just Chuck Berry riffs either sped up or played backwards.
Just looked up the Pink Floyd one and wow! The part that sounds like Fade to Black is at the exact same speed and even the guitar tone is as good as identical.
Yep even the name Fade to black is a nod to “the dark side of the moon” the moon fades to black every month
yeah they also stole that Y&T guitar tone. btw.
Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT which one?
Some of these seem fairly blatant but many are just similar phrasing. You did miss one of the best known ones though: Enter Sandman ripping off skate rock band Excel's Tapping Into the Emotional Void.
Great job though, you clearly have an encyclopedic knowledge of metal.
I used that one in the other video Master of Plagiarism.
Martin-Listen to Exit for Freedom,sounds like the beginning of Enter Sandman
Sandman doesn't rip off Excel, it's similar phrasing. Put it this way, Excel would lose if they claimed copyright infringement. If anything it rips off Michael Jackson's Beat It.
I got two more: UFO - "Let It Roll" (Album "Force It", 1975) Listen to the part between 1:40 - 2:35 (especially the twin guitars) that STRONGLY resembles METALLICA`s "Orion" and the bridge/middle part of it. It is commonly known that "Force It" is one of Kirk Hammett`s all time favorite albums ;-) Also: ENTOMBED - "Chief Rebel Angel" (Album "Morning Star", 2001), first song on the album. The intro/beginning of the track very much reminds me on the intro of "That Was Just Your Life" from "Death Magnetic". By the way, I`ve been a Metallica fan from the very beginning (the day "KEA" was released), have seen them live more than 20 times and STILL am a big admirer! In my opinion, most of the examples listed here are based on inspiration and are their own version or variation of it. Some of them may be playgiarized but I still cannot imagine that e.g. Lars deliberately decides to use that Pearl Jam drum intro for "The End Of The Line" or that they would steal from Darkthrone demos.
Thanks I'll check 'em out.
Thank you so much for this, really great video.
thanks man
In most cases I can hear similar musical phrasing. But I also hear dramatic improvements in Metallica's "borrowed" riffs over the originals. To my knowledge the only songs where Metallica acknowledge deliberately and consciously borrowing riffs though were retrofitting Diamond Head into "Seek & Destroy" and adapting "Sweet Home Alabama" into the slow section of "The Four Horsemen."
Edit: One exception: Iron Maiden's "Children of the Damned" is superior to Metallica's "Unforgiven II" in my humble opinion. Both are pretty good songs, though.
yeah, in most cases the original are superior I would say. Cheers!
Anything produced by bob rock is superior!
@@RuthlessMetalYT is that you dave mustaine
Just because they didn’t acknowledge it, doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. I agree some similar riffs are bound to happen, but there seem to be way too many. We already know they like to cover other people’s stuff. They did cover albums in two different decades (Well, one an EP and one a full cd) for crying out loud. Face it. They make improvements, but they do copy other bands, A LOT!
@@RuthlessMetalYT Oh hi Dave Mustaine
Very funny to hear the "similarities", I am a classically trained musician and I took every theory/harmony class in college, so I am always noticing possible plagiarism riffs when I listen to anything, and there are many examples that most people don't notice. The one that hit me in the face when I first heard it was, Unforgiven II/ Children of the Damned, both great songs...Check out Fleetwood Mac's "Hold Me" and Metallica's "Hero of the Day"...same progression..WTF ???
I'll check it out. Cheers!
Just listened to it. Yeah you're talking about the chorus of the fleetwood mac song. Everything is derivative though. Those two songs have completely different overall feelings to them.
You don’t need a degree to hear similarities lol. Theory is free now and days and harmony construction is also free. I think you deserve every cent back from your tuition.
Ok, same progression? By that logic, anyone who uses a I IV V progression is plagiarizing. A lot of musicians use similar riffs, however, the bass and drums and a lot of instances the tempo is vastly different. Just because Metallica isn't ashamed of wearing their influences on their sleeves doesn't mean they copy them. Also, legally, you can't own a riff or a beat, if that were the case, every hip hop "artist" would owe all their royalties to Mountain. Nice try though.
When you're playing simple chords, how many options are there? E A D or A C G...probably 4000 songs with same progression
hey Rm can you pls tell me what is the name of the band in the intro pls thank you
Arachnid demo 1992
I would include "For Whom the Bell Tolls" and the ending riff for "Fairies Wears Boots" by Black Sabbath.
Cheers!
I can see why I like so many bands. I was never a huge Metallica fan, but because of them I branched out and found most of the bands on this list.
Yeah, I'm a fan too, but people are rediculous when they don't see how these match up so well.
When youre constantly listening to music it rubs off on you and you can easily come up with something "original" and not even think of where you got it from
Cheers!
It is happening coz of huge amount of material that flies beside us. Unconsciously)
Gz - you've uncovered the nature of art xD To always improve, inspire and take license and inspiration from what came before. Its like all disciplines, constantly evolving.
So gz, you've just described art.
But I wonder whether you are an artist or just a consumer :D
It's a different thing to be influenced and taking riffs. I don't know how people don't see that. Cheers!
Looking back everything can be seen like that - just about every band can be accused of plagiarism. Everyone is under the influence of the current trends.
Cheers!
...and plagiarism for all
Some day maybe. ;)
Plagiarism em all!
.. And Justice For Thievery.
I personally think it's pretty hard to make your own music without including something that has already been done. I probably haven't come across a band who hasn't borrowed/plagiarised/... parts from other musicians. Everyone has their idols and influences and that just is apparent in their music. And this all explains, why the "most common metal riff" is a thing, for example. As long as the new song with a borowed riff is good, I'm okay with it. BTW, this topic would make an interesting series on this channel! I'd like to see a version with Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Black Saabath, or any other band. Cheers! 🤘
I have an idea for a video called plagarism in metal that will be released later this summer sometime. :) Cheers!
If you listen to a great volume of music, I think you'll find that metallica are not any more "guilty" than most other artists
Then give me a band that did this as much as Metallica within the metal realm, I don't know of any such band. Cheers!
@@RuthlessMetalYT Nargaroth
@BXL Gotham lmfao
Cheers! Nice channel btw
thanks, Cheers!
Master of Plagiarism was a great video that introduced me to your channel. This is an amazing follow-up.
It's interesting that people that listen to Metallica first, THEN discovered some of these other bands might think that THEY plagiarized Metallica!
It's tough to say whether Metallica "plagiarized" these bands, or if they were just heavily influenced and wanted to emulate them. I don't think Metallica was shy about saying who their influences were.
Finally, I wanted to say I really like your channel, and I saw that you weren't getting enough support to keep it alive. You obviously have a vast knowledge of metal (respect!) and I find these deeper discussions of the genre more interesting than some of the "top 10" lists you have recently done.
Thanks man. Yeah, the channel is probably done. But I'll keep it up over the summer. Cheers!
I love how it’s Lars spilling the beans every time lol
cheers
Lars loves the sound of his own voice. I find him interesting but hate how he smacks his lips all the time
He couldn't stop himself from singing about his band. Guilty as charged.
There would be about five Metallica interviews if Lars kept his mouth shut.
That's 'cos he never shuts up! In 1989, I bought an interview picture disc, I was gutted to play it and find out it was Lars droning on for the entirety of the 2 sides, with the occasional grunt from one of the others, or if they actually began a sentence, he'd just speak over them until they shut up. That was a turning point for me with all their interviews, I realised that unless they were in print, you hardly ever got to hear the other band members opinions.
I feel these songs may be sounding somewhat similar but they are so different. All of this seems like a basis for all bands. Many do lead riffs and melodies that never seem in line with a song they are recording.
Cheers!
The intro to Fade to Black is also similar to intro of Pink Floyd's Goodbye blue sky (the wall) mashed up With Y&T's Rescue me's intro solo & Forever on the outro of Fade to black..🤔thanks for shedding light on that.
Cheers!
Blown away! When the unknown plays the riff they get no notice. When the mighty Metallica plays…. it It becomes their creation. Love your work. Metalhead unite
Thanks boss
Unknown?! What?! I know most of these bands and listened to them at some point. Mainly because of Metallica talking about their influences.
Maybe unknown to you.
I bought Stone on vinyl years ago. Just happened to spot it, and bought it for this exact reason. Had to hear it for myself. Its a good album btw.
yeah they are pretty good.
What was the Diamond Head song that got removed for copyright?
I don't remember. it's been a while since I did this video. Cheers!
I wrote a song that was on my old Myspace account, and now has become know as Uncle Acid - Melody Lane. Makes me proud they were able to take my work and make it even better.
Cheers!