Great showcase and narration of this synth ! I programmed MZSTRING, MONSTER, DREAMER, VERTEBRA, LUSHNESS, and nearly 300 others in 1980s Play DREAMER with 4 Cs pressed low->high one second between each key press and hold until the filter goes to the top. A good delay effect in this patch is to stagger notes in chords on press, then also stagger on release
Really awesome to hear one of the sound designers of this amazing synth checked out this video! I'll check it out as soon as I get home, thank you 🙏 MZSTRING is the defining patch of this synth, it's just so gorgeous
Really? That's amazing, they are among the best of the M6R originals. Most of these Presets weren't that good to be honest. The 1000 had so much better banks I hardly left the orignals in the 6 and swapped them. But Monster stayed.
@GK-op4oc - Thanks for chiming in. I'm sure I read about you in Keyboard magazine back in the 80'. Got my Matrix 6 when they came out and to this day am still discovering sounds.
I could not agree with you more. I had the luxury of owning the OBx - OB8 - Expander and Matrix 6/1000 and to me the Matrix both 6 and 6R are the best sounding ones with a wider palette of synthesis exploration not found in the originals. There are already demos comparing these machines (OBx and Matrix 6/1000) and its amazing how close they come sound wise. I would definitely not burn 5K on an OB-XA.
Really Nice Demo of this beast. All she needs is a dash of external effects and she is golden. Only wish it were internally true stereo and you could pan all 6 voices independently like the OB series. I can't remember what firmware revision I have (I know it's been upgraded but I got it used so I won't trust my memory as I'm not in front of my M6 at the moment.) But there is something else very cool about the M6 and that is it responds to MPE. Even though it's only bi-timbral, split or layered, it has a couple midi modes. The M1000 was designed to respond to 6 midi channels like a guitar controller, but if you put the M6 into the right midi mode, and use an MPE controller that's set up to send on midi channels 1 thru 6, like my Roli Seaboard 49, the seaboard will play it with MPE. That means poly AT for pressure, and individual note pitch bends and slides. Gets super close to the CS-80 when programmed properly.
You could have done a demo with numerous synths ( vintage and new ) awash with effects ! as was your demo of the Matrix 6 , and they all would have sounded pretty much the same. A better review would be to play the instrument with just a touch of reverb , this would then give the listener a truer impression of the overall sound.
I do turn the fx off at several points per the viewer's request, and you can hear the fx are surprisingly minimal. The synth sounds much more cinematic than you'd expect.
There are a lot of disctintive nuances that conforms the 'personality' of every synth... the character of the filter, the slope of the envelopes, the harmonic content of the oscillators... Using the same fx chain with my Tetra, the Matrix-1k and the P12m, each of them keeps its particular sound signature.... Moreover, as with guitars, any synth sound you can hear on your favourite records has been processed in any possible way to fit in the mix... Trust yout ears... Cheers...!!
@Vulture Culture This was a standard message for the people who always ask for dry sound on each and every synth demo on youtube... lol.... I know you're not that kind.... Cheers...!
@@kaiwetronic Envelope shape/response is huge and often overlooked by manufacturers. The ASM Hydrasynth can program individual ADSR element slope shapes and amount of slope shape. Makes a big difference when programming an OB sound as it's slope has a soft curve at the top. Check out the manaul for the new OB-X8 and it shows the difference in curve responses between the X-Xa and the 8 were originally different. Another reason the sound changed more on the 8 than it did between the X and Xa (cross mod and sync not withstanding.)
So I read this from someone who claimed to have worked on the Matrix group of synths for Oberheim, back in the day. So take this with a grain of salt. As you all know, the M6’s DCOs are a custom Curtis synth on a chip (the CEM3396). So a digital clock generates a square wave that determines the frequency (pitch) of the oscillator instead of a voltage determining the frequency. But the two digital clocks were not synced together. Therefore, there would be slight deviations in both clocks resulting in slight deviations in the oscillator’s pitches. This slight detuning or “drift” created a fuller sound. So the DCOs in both CEM3396s behave closer to VCOs than most synced DCOs. Again, I can’t verify this.
That's actually correct with one little tweak, the Matrix 6 actually has 3 HFO's (high frequency oscillators) which are actually analog and not a digital clock. These are divided down, HFO1 is for all of DCO 1's voices, HFO2 is for voices 1 + 2 of DCO 2, and HFO3 is for voices 3-6 of DCO2. In *theory* this could add some analog drift to the sound compared to a Matrix 1000 which uses one digital clock for all 12 DCO's just like a Juno 106. In practice I don't really know if it makes a real, world difference.
@@VultureCulture yes I heard from the same fellow that there was only one digital clock on the Matrix 1000, and therefore its DCO voices are always in tune. I don’t know how the drifting clocks make that much difference. I have a Matrix 6R and the fat sounds get that way by judicious detuning of the oscillators. Old school analogue techniques. By the way, thanks for the Legendary Synths 1.1 Sample Pack update.
Great synth, have a 6 R since 1993 and it still runs like a gem. No service needed. But it definetly doesn't have an SEM-Filter. Also the Oscillators are quite different from the other OBs but still good. I was used to program this expander without controller. And it's pretty fluent and easy once you understand the logic. It's like the same parameters are in 10s usually. So Osc1 is 1-9, then OSC2, Mix, Filter etc. It's pretty impressive though what features you have. Envelopes, Ramps, FM and a lot of more things which makes it one of the most capable analog synths. But it doesn't have the Multimodefilter of the Xpander or Matrix 12 (or SEM which would be Multimode as well). Best thing is the Modulation Matrix which brings this thing into Modular territory. Thus it's one of the few synths to even control the resonance of the filter by Modulators.
I had a matrix 1000 and used it on everything! Secret weapon indeed! They implemented a special midi mode where you could daisy chain 6 of them together. (Never tried this but would love to see you do it!) I’m a self proclaimed Oberheim fanboy and became fascinated with the rise and fall of the company. Turns out Tom left (forced out) the company after the Matrix 12 was released. He didnt consider the M6, M1k to be ‘real’ Oberheims. They’re basically an entire synth on a VSLI chip. He went on to make a programmable rack synth very similar though called Marion MS2. I loved my Matrix 1000. Wish I had kept it. Thanks for the detailed video!
I really enjoy your demo...! Nothing new for me... but it was like being with a friend, spending time exploring his new synth... no rush... Any Matrix is worth the money... the ultimate analog polysynth you may need...
YESSS...!!! Modded my MKS-50 with an input to the chorus just for playing my Matrix-1k thru the magical infamous Juno chorus... Stereo synth heaven...!! Anyways, if you just plug it to a Zoom MS-70cdr pedal, using the Bass Ensemble fx opens the sound in the stereo field in a similar way... Enjoy your Matrix...!! (And check if it already has the latest firmware onboard)
I own an OBX8 and an OB-6 and thankfully I found a Matrix6 and 1000.... The Matrix 6 is very impressive indeed!!! Still I love ANY Oberheim synth because of it's true warmth and sound that hits deep in your musical soul...... :)
DuDe!!!!! Man thanks for the video. I just got one M6r and unfortunately I send it back because sometimes it powers On and sometimes not. I got mine from Syntaur. The sooner I got mine I start downloading my own favorite patches from the web like Brass, Pads and sweeps that sounds amazing. Thanks one again This Synth has the stamp sound of 1985.
I really think it's a gem in synth world. I enjoy it very much. I had also MX1000 and even Marion ProSynth but I sold them and kept MX6 which provides to me good 80's pop rock patches!
I own an OB-Xa and a matrix6 plus a matrix 1000. The matrix 6 /1000 has the typical strings, brass syntha , brass pads that made Oberheim famous. It sounds really beautiful but don’t expect it to sound as powerful, raw and gritty as an OB-Xa .there s a big difference. You will never make the jump sound for exemple on a M6/M1000 even if cou can make same style sound . The M6/M1000 dounds nearly identical to the xpdander/M12. The Xoander ( i tested it ) is of course maybe the most powerful analog synth bass in term of synthesis programming but it has , like the M6, lose the extremely RAW and gritty sound of the OB-Xa.
And those lose the extremely RAW and gritty sounds (especially lead synth sounds) are exactly the kind I use a lot and what made me love Oberheim, but dislike the Matrix 6.
There're essentially only three types of oscillators - analog oscillators with tuning controlled by voltage, analog oscillators with tuning digitally controlled, and digital oscillators. The Matrix 6 has DCO's (digitally controlled analog oscillators)
Oh for sure! You can't find an original OB for under 8k - so in some sense the new version, which really does sound like the vintage ones, is a great bargain.
I own a Matrix 6. In fact, I use it as a MIDI controller to play my OB6 Desktop Module. And having both and playing both I can definitely tell you that, although the M6 can sound good, it definitely does NOT compare well to the OB6. The M6 is a Curtis synth-on-a-chip DCO based machine, with Curtis filters. It sounds very Sequential much more than Oberheim. Especially besides a VCO, SEM-based polysynth with Oberheim filters (ARP actually). BTW, when the Matrix 6 was released in 1985, Tom Oberheim had left the company as well as Marcus Ryle, so there's almost nothing Oberheim about it except the front and back logos, which were owned by Gibson at that time. But hey, if you're satisfied with your Matrix 6 and enjoy it very much and you like the way it sounds, that's the most important thing. Me, I prefer the sounds of my OB6. Much creamier and sweet.
Love the OB-6! This livestream was recorded right around the launch of the OB-X8 and my argument was, dollar-for-dollar, but you're better off with an M6 than an OB-X8 if you want that vintage Oberheim sound. The OB-6, especially used, is much closer in price and is without a doubt more powerful and sounds awesome. One nitpick though, the most popular Oberheims were the OB-Xa and OB-8, which were also entirely based on CEM chips (although they were VCO's.) Only the much less manufactured OB-X used a SEM low pass filter.
@@VultureCulture the OB Matrix 6 is puzzling to program, all of a sudden I can’t get the Portamento to work, hoping the matrix mod will help, but doesn’t sound like it lol. Great sounding synth regardless, great yo midi chain and blend with other poly’s
My Matrix 1000 is still probably one of the best sounding synths I own. I believe it sounds more interesting to me than my Prophet 10. It's hard to say it... but it's how I feel. It's certainly nowhere near as interesting to look at though. Part of what sounds so good is the excellent programming that was done by the folks in the 80s to make this. But I still don't know of a synth that sounds better to my ears. Wish I had the Matrix 6 instead, but here we are...
If I understand correctly the 1000 is the same under the hood as the 6. When I discovered a patch on the Matrix that used velocity to modulate attack I realize that the synth was competing on a different level from the rest of the 80's analogue synths. Really incredible sounds!
@@VultureCulture It really goes beyond any other 80's synth in terms of programmability... I don't want to bother anybody here by writing a whole 'Modern Matrix bag of tricks'... so, just a few short tips about the behaviour of the sustain pedal: Surprisingly, it doesn't work as with other synths... not an infinite sustainer. You can make it trigger whatever you programmed in the mod matrix, even the sudden start of an envelope, driving crazy filter fm modulations each time you stomp the pedal... If you notice strange clicks or retriggers when playing a patch using the pedal, the most common reason is the 'multi' setting on any of the envelopes trigger mode (check the Ramps as well). Setting them to 'single' should fix it... but sometimes, you may want that behaviour when looking for a realistic funk guitar strumming...
@@VultureCulture even the mighty Juno 106 has that character with the more open filter sounds. Can be useful, horses for courses as they say. Either way the patch programming was vey good. Thanks for the video.
I've got the exact Oberheim Matrix 6 with the ObiMagiX6000, this exact setup and she is in perfect condition. It was just gone thru by my keyboard tech. I'm truly thinking about selling it. And no, not to purchase the Oberheim OB-8X. I'm also not going to sell it for an arm and a leg either. And yes I will be including the ObiMagiX6000 with it. If interested, please give me a heads-up. Thank you!
@@dez1989 I found a stunningly mint one just 2 days ago. Looking forward to comparing it to the X8. Good luck… It shouldn’t be hard to find a buyer for yours!
@@JimDaneker Thank you for your kind comment! 🙏 I thought about the stereoping but I couldn't justify the cost. The ObiMagiX6000 is a fantastic controller at a fraction of the price. How it has opened up the possibilities of the Matrix 10 fold. Take care Jim.
For some a synth is about the journey to a sound(s) after you turn it on; sometimes you know where you want to go first and sometimes not. I am among the many (most?) who want knob per function instead of diving. I do feel the $5k price for what you get though (all SMB and all digital modulation) is ridiculous. Were I spending at that level I would scrape another grand and get the all discrete through hole Omega 8 every time; not even close. I feel it will be very interesting IF the UB-XA ever actually ships...
For what it's worth, the overpriced stereoping controller for a Matrix and the Matrix together is still only about $2,600 and gives you that one knob per function workflow. I'm with you, 1 knob per function is where it's at. I'm doing a live stream on the Kawai K3 tonight and it's actually got a really elegant "alpha dial" esque press a button and move the dial interface - like the Nonlinear labs C15
@@VultureCulture Heck, not even. I got my matrix 6 keyboard for $1000 USD, and then, thanks to the collapse of the euro, I got the stereoping programmer for $590 shipped from Germany. So basically $1600 all in gives me knob per function.
@@VultureCulture You are a hero! I was looking at the Stereoping controller for years but it's way too expensive for just being a custom midi controller
Sounds insane! My setup is 1x Matrix 1000 and 1x Matrix 6R running it in poly chan with 12 voice. Just waiting for the Synth Programmer. Demos are incoming in the future. Subscribe.
@@VultureCulture So, now I got my new gear, the Stereoping Synth Programmer. It's amazing! Really fast for example on the filter cutoff, resonance. Heavy and stabile product. Here is mine with my music : ua-cam.com/video/XFkVezxAmY0/v-deo.html Every patch is now modifyable, it is a lot of fun to tweak all parameter! The developer says it will be available for a short time, you'll have to wait half a year or a year to get one because the chip shortige and maybe the wooden sides are not longer available in the future. Next level is now for me to running it in poly chain mode for 12 voice.
@@VultureCulture :) Definitely worth the money and who knows what is coming in the future, better you get one before it's to late. The unit is built like a tank, knobs feels great. I have to dive into the features now, but now is so easy to modify some "bad" factory presets to wunderful patches.
What the review doesn't reveal is the build quality of this era of Oberheim synths such as the Matrix 6, the Xpander and the Matrix-12. The display comes straight from a NEC cash register which was meant to last 5 years. Good luck trying to find a replacement for that. I did though. I sold my Xpander as I found the envelopes to be slow which makes it impossible to get any snappy sounds out of it. They're software generated which with an 1984 will never ever make it snappy. This also compromised the Matrix-6 and the Matrix-12 which essentially 2 Xpanders stacked upon each other which were manufactured at the time. Cool synths though. Many of your favourite rock, industrial and techno sounds came out these synths.
Mine was bought in the 80's and meticulously maintained by the owner. I'm not aware that the display had been replaced - but it totally is a cash register display 🤣
@@VultureCulture I never owned a Matrix-6 but as you play it, it sure sounds lovely. All my colleague musicians are selling off their OB-8s and OB-XAs to buy the OBX8. The addition of the SEM filters is a no-brainer to go and buy it. 3 synths in one.
You were talking about Synth Archive, what are their price ranges? I find it a little, or A LOT too much to purchase anything from Stereoping. I mean they have gone completely insane with their prices... just like any new junk from Tom Oberheim. You know, I'm fortunate to have many of the old synths that I drempt of when I was a kid and a young, struggling musician. Even though I am in a place where I could spend the money on a new Oberheim OB-8X, I absolutely will not give them a dime of my money! I still remember what it was like not being able to get a good synth because of how expensive they were. Tom, Moog they could cut their prices in half and still make a killing because they'd sell VOLUME! But no. They haven't learned any lessons. I would rather purchase a used Arturia Poly Brute, a used Korg Prologue and a Roland System 8. Those along with my Behringer Deepmind 12, 2 Poly-D's and a VC340 on top of my Wavestate, Radias, Fantom and one of my favorites, my Korg 2011 CX-3, I could get close enough to any sound I want and I won't get ripped off. I've got a Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue, Sub-37 and my Minitaur. I'm selling them except for the Minitaur. I use those with Roland PK-5A pedals to get a perfect Taurus pedal. I also just grabbed a Nord-2X and a Roland JD-XI, which I love! I can't support Moog or Oberheim any longer. Their noses are raised so high that they'd drown if it rained too hard. I also couldn't deal with Dave Smith until the Take-5 came out and I can even give him partial credit for the Rev2. There is absolutely NO REASON for any synth to be over 3000.00 today. And that's quite high for struggling musicians. There are so many ways that they could pull back on those prices! Moog workers went on strike earlier this summer. One worker Stated that he has a quota of 11 pieces that has to be done everyday. One of the synths he worked on cost around 4000.00 per unit. He said his pay was a little less than half of 1 of those units. Knowing that each and every synth is already sold because they can't keep up. He said how it made him sick Knowing that he couldn't come close to making that kind of money each month. One product cost 4000.00. He has to get 11 of them done a day. But he still makes less than half of what one of those synths sell for per month. It is hard not to looking at those companies as being thieves to the people who make them and to the typical keyboardist consumer who has no idea the obscene amount of profit these companies make on just 1 of their synths. Look, I am an unabashed capitalist. They can charge What they want to... that is if the market (people) will pay that price, you have every right to make that cash grab. However we as consumers have the power to tell these companies that we will not accept the price you want. When I see, hear, play and listen to a synth that cost half the price of one of these ripoff synths, I'll stick with the better synth for less cash! Can you say Arturia Poly Brute and many, many other synths out there today?
Prices for synths are so fascinating to me too. I feel like if they can sell a shitload at that price, good for them, but I agree with you that the prices are out of control. I appreciate Moog putting out products like Mavis that are much, much cheaper.
Do you know that people were paying 3 times more to have an Ob in the 80s !?!?! I don t have an OBX8 but i do have an OB-Xa and a Matrix6+Matrix1000. First the M6 even if it sounds really beautiful (a 4op fm synth can also sounds beautiful) you will never get that exceptional raw, powerful, gritty and simply better sound of the Obxa . 5000us for an X8 is a bargain. A shit car cost 15 000 and his value will be ZERO in 10 years. A nice piano starts at 20 000 us . and there s right now a 3 months wait in all Europe stores to have an X8 . They are sold out . Hopefully others have a brain
@@philippezsiga1125 Please forgive me. I know that what I'm saying is unpopular on this channel but because of where I come from, I just can't agree with most of you. I can not respect Mr.Tom Oberheim. I held him and his synths in high esteem for such a long period of time. What's odd is that now I can afford them, other than as a possible investment, I don't believe they are worth it! And I'm sorry, I don't purchase instruments to be investments. I purchase them to play! So basically if you are into Moog, Oberheim and a bunch of Sequential Circuits, you are either from an established band and you'll take them out to play or you simply have money. Most people who simply have money don't want to take their expensive investment out to play at a bar. So basically these synths are expensive unless blocks of plastic. Instruments are ment to be used and played! Tom is out to make his final cash grab and that is something I just can't respect! If Tom tried to make something great that most people could afford and use, I'd be happy to sing his praises. But that is the farthest thing from his mind! He doesn't care about putting Instruments in the hands of real working musicians or kids. Enjoy your last hooray Tom.
@@philippezsiga1125 I've been thinking about what you had to say about 5000.00 being a bargain. As I stated, I do own an OB-XA and a Matrix 6. Even Vulture Culture said that he has a bunch of older synths and he will not take them out to play gigs. Let's say you are in a fairly popular live band and you play a gig a week. Are you going to take a 5000.00 OB-X8 out to a fairly large bar to play? No, because it could get stolen, broken or any other possible catastrophes that can happen to that piece of equipment! It is taking forever and I am losing my patience with Behringer playing games releasing their new UB-XA. HOWEVER If they release it at around 1500.00, I'll wait and purchase a used one. Maybe I'll even drop the entire 1500.00 on it. IF and I do say IF it sounds like it has sounded on the internet for their beta testing, that will become my new OB synth! I can take that out to play anywhere, anytime and it will not bother me for a minute! If it sounds like the OB and I could purchase 6used one for under 1300.00... That there is a Bargain! And it is usable! You would need your head examined if you went to purchase an OB-Anything and never get to use it! It comes down to simple economics. Tom can sell to all the cork sniffers like himself and never really make any difference in this world! When you know that same synth could be made for a little less (and trust me, there is a huge markup on this synth only because it says Oberheim) and sold for around 2500.00 or less. He would still make a killing simply because he would sell so many more than he will sell right now. The numbers sold would boggle the mind! He would be giving many, many more people a chance to have a real Oberheim! That is where he could make a difference because many more AVERAGE people just might splurge to spend 2500.00. That is still NOT a paltry price to pay, however a lot more fans who have loved Oberheim would do whatever it would take to buy one at a reasonable price! Tom Oberheim and the OB-BOT cork sniffers need their heads examined for thinking that 5000.00 is a bargain! Look, I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHOSE NAME IS ON MY l
@@VultureCulture I agree. Like I said, I've thrown a few buckets of crap at Dave Smith also because of his prices. Also because of comments both he and Tom Oberheim made about Behringer. Yes, simply because Behringer is shining a light on them showing the world that these "legendary" synths are way, way overpriced! At least Dave Smith came out with the Take-5! I haven't checked into it just yet, however it is a Poly synth with all the controls at a reasonable price. Apparently Tom Oberheim believes he is above the Frey. Oh well, God bless him. If there is a market out there that likes to throw away money on a name, take advantage of it. What's amazing is that Behringer proves that you can sell a good product at a reasonable price, yet the cork sniffers will complain about it. Yet they will happily be taken advantage of by people with a certain name. They will throw thousands of dollars away on something they will likely under use, and they will praise be the name of the people who just overcharged them by a few thousand dollars. I just don't get it.
The OB-X8 has VCO's and more filters than the Matrix6. On the other hand the modulation routing is more flexible on the Matrix6 so in theory there are certain sounds not reproducible on the OB-X8.
I've never played an OB-6 but the state variable filter is pretty amazing and the interface is obviously much better. I've got that vintage synth itch but for all intents and purposes the OB-6 is probably the way to go
I own both. They have about 60% overlap. As mentioned the state variable filter on the OB-6 is awesome and a leap ahead of the M6. On the other hand, the M6 has a bit more modulation routing. The LFE expander (Yorick Tech) brings the OB-6 close/on-par (and can handle more complex aftertouch functions), but given that the OB-6 is expensive upfront that may be a barrier. I like both, but probably drift a bit more towards the OB-6 given the immediate interface. However, I do not plan on parting ways with the M6. The artist Lorn use(s/d) both on a number of songs/albums if you are looking for examples.
As I mention on punkhead’s rant, the matrix 6 is a fantastic synth. I love it and use it from time to time. Nothing at all to do with OB series. Completely different kind of synth.
@@VultureCulture the filter. It’s just a different experience. The sonic signature of the M6 is so tied to the filter which I would describe as harsh and low-mid dominant and blocky. It produces some excellent late 80s, controlled (read dco) palettes but the ob line filters are so sweet and smooth and fat and b/c of the architecture, untamed. I do love the low end on the m6 filter, especially when widened with Dimension D or the like.
Yeah, the 79/80s OB filters are just wonderful … the new X8 doesn’t have ‘it’ either (was noticeably lacking, not least, on preset D3 and some others), tho’ it is a great synth for other reasons and just generally; they just didn’t reproduce that same filter magic of the ‘OG OBs’, unfortunately …
Good job with the demo. I bought one when they first came out and I still have it. I spent a lot of time creating patches, both using the instrument’s keypad and programming software. There are a couple of apps for iPad that you can use now. While the instrument does have its limitations and its particular flavour, just like every instrument. Having had mine for so long, I mostly want to hear it only on particular things. I never sold mine, because it filled a particular role more than satisfactorily. My biggest beefs - #1 In unison mode it does have a thicker sound, but it is not the same sort of fat sound that I want to hear. If I used unison, I usually used only oscillator one. #2 Paddles? Yuck. Super imprecise unless you limit the bend range to the lazy whole tone only setting.
@@VultureCulture - Oh shoot, now I have to expose my nerdiness. Because the Matrix 6 is an 80s synth, I used an Atari 1040st computer to host programming software. (I actually still that computer and it still works. Has a whole megabyte of RAM.) Because I still have a couple synths from that era that I pull out now and then (more “then” than “now” 😁), long ago I went to Tim’s Atari MIDI Site and downloaded Atari emulating software for the PC and Caged Artists’ Matrix editing software so that I can still use the software that I used in the 1980s on a modern computer. (That is the late Tim Conrady’s site that someone has maintained long after he passed away. There is still a bunch of similar free 1980s Atari software available there. I guess that Tim got authors’ permissions.) If you have never run Atari programs that might all seem a bit convoluted. A better and more modern solution is the iPad app called Patch Base. You buy editors a la carte. The older version that I have works a tiny bit better for the Matrix 1000 (which I also have) than it does for the Matrix 6. They might have improved the editing buffer functioning in the newer version. Of course, for you the real time hardware editor that you have looks to be an awesome hands on solution. (You get great and flexible sounds.) I image that as you change parameters you can just save the edited versions into the Matrix’s memory. What is the unit that you are using and did you have to buy a chip with the newer Matrix OS to get it to all work well? Without such a unit, I have usually programmed the Matrix to respond to various MIDI CCs to get such real time control from a keyboard controller. The other thing that bugged me about the Matrix is that the envelopes are not very snappy. They always felt a bit sluggish compared to, say a Minimoog or a Virus.
Those older board have an automatic vibe that just isn’t found in new hardware. What is it and how come they can’t recreate that? Is it aged components that make the sound?
"OBERHEIM MATRIX 6 - Better than the OB-X8?" I highly, highly doubt it. Loved the OB-X, Xa & 8. A friend of mine had a Matrix 6, and it seemed incapable of making most of the kinds of sounds I wanted. Same with the Matrix 1000. I suppose it depends on the kinds of sounds you want.
What kinds of sounds did you feel the Matrix 6 was lacking? For the record I'm making the argument that the Matrix 6 is better *bang for your buck* than the OB-X8, if you're looking for that Oberheim sound.
I own both, M6 isnt in the same league sound wise. The M6 has better modulation availability via the programming, but you are stuck with a few DCOs. It hasnt the balls of the OBX8. The OBX8 is impressive dry out of the box. If you get an M6 get one of the software editors they made. Its very tedious otherwise. I have owned the M6 for about 15 years. Other than reseating the Curtis chips it has worked pretty good. You can create decent sounds if you are patient with the interface. But, IMHO they will be ok, but nothing you couldnt create with a modern workstation. I paid about $800 for mine 15 years ago. Save your money
I do turn off the fx several times to show the difference. For me, I don't think it's as helpful to hear the synth completely dry as how it would actually sound in a mix. The chorus and the reverb are both dialed in low though so you can still hear the character of the synth.
@@VultureCulture I disagree but it's your page.my fav demos are completely and going through the cleanest imput possible. Symth demos recorded with the camera's mic make absolutely sense to me
I'm not - but I am aware of the song, which likely inspired the team at Rare to name the first level of the third world of Donkey Kong Country Vulture Culture - which is where I got the name from.
"OBERHEIM MATRIX 6 - Better than the OB-X8?" Not even close! Don't kid yourself. Try any lead sounds? "Oberheim is known for the classic synth sounds from songs like "Jump" by Van Halen and "Tom Sawyer" by Rush." Yes Oberheim is known for that with the OB-X series (OB-X, OB-Xa, OB-8 and now OB-X8. Don't think for a second the Matrix 6 in the same family. As a huge fan of the OB-X series in the 80s, I found great disappointment in the sounds of my friends Matrix 6. I actually had better luck trying to replicate "famous" 80s/70s rock synth sounds with my Casio CZ. Check out RetroSounds video series on comparing the CZ's to expensive famous synths like the OB-Xa, Mini Moog and many others. In addition, the Matrix 6 was terribly unreliable. My friend is very talented with electronic repair skills, and his Matrix 6 lived half it's life back at the factory due to frequent failures. The problems weren't even something he could just fix himself. The CZ turned out to be the bargain of the century for me in replicating the kinds of famous sounds I needed for my cover bands. My friend spent several times as much money on his Matrix 6, and clearly didn't get his money's worth. But the OB-X series were great. The Matrix 6 & 1000 shouldn't even be used in the same sentence as those instruments. When we think of the great Oberheim name, it was due to their other great instruments like the OB-X series, and earlier Four & Eight Voice synthesizer keyboards of the 70s.
Thank you for your viewpoint 🙏 I have to say that after I played it I agree that 50% isn't quite there with getting that OB-series sound. It sounds great but in a different way. I actually am really hoping to find a decent CZ-1 to feature on the channel soon. I have an HT-6000 which should in theory be a higher end synth with its analog filters, but the prosumer grade interface and build hinders it.
@@VultureCulture Glad you enjoyed my post. I started off with a CZ-101 in the mid 80s. I upgraded to the CZ-1000 a year later. Before long, I had two CZ-1000's. In the early 90s I bought a CZ-1 and I currently have two CZ-1's and two CZ-1000's. You should also consider a VST of the CZ's. They can produce the same sounds. Arturia makes one, and these is another called Virtual CZ that is pretty good. But if you prefer it in hardware form, the CZ-1 was the best model of the CZ's made.
@@VultureCulture the kit is significantly cheaper than most other controllers for the Matrix 6; additionally with the dollar a lot stronger than usual compared to the Euro it is basically on sale.
Great showcase and narration of this synth ! I programmed MZSTRING, MONSTER, DREAMER, VERTEBRA, LUSHNESS, and nearly 300 others in 1980s
Play DREAMER with 4 Cs pressed low->high one second between each key press and hold until the filter goes to the top. A good delay effect in this patch is to stagger notes in chords on press, then also stagger on release
Really awesome to hear one of the sound designers of this amazing synth checked out this video!
I'll check it out as soon as I get home, thank you 🙏
MZSTRING is the defining patch of this synth, it's just so gorgeous
Really? That's amazing, they are among the best of the M6R originals. Most of these Presets weren't that good to be honest. The 1000 had so much better banks I hardly left the orignals in the 6 and swapped them. But Monster stayed.
@GK-op4oc - Thanks for chiming in. I'm sure I read about you in Keyboard magazine back in the 80'. Got my Matrix 6 when they came out and to this day am still discovering sounds.
Damn, those are some of my favorite synth sounds I've ever heard!
@m.a.freund3332 such an incredible and overlooked instrument!
I could not agree with you more. I had the luxury of owning the OBx - OB8 - Expander and Matrix 6/1000 and to me the Matrix both 6 and 6R are the best sounding ones with a wider palette of synthesis exploration not found in the originals. There are already demos comparing these machines (OBx and Matrix 6/1000) and its amazing how close they come sound wise. I would definitely not burn 5K on an OB-XA.
You're not the first OB series owner who's told me they'd prefer the Matrix 6. It's shocking, but it's a really fantastic instrument.
Really Nice Demo of this beast. All she needs is a dash of external effects and she is golden. Only wish it were internally true stereo and you could pan all 6 voices independently like the OB series.
I can't remember what firmware revision I have (I know it's been upgraded but I got it used so I won't trust my memory as I'm not in front of my M6 at the moment.) But there is something else very cool about the M6 and that is it responds to MPE. Even though it's only bi-timbral, split or layered, it has a couple midi modes. The M1000 was designed to respond to 6 midi channels like a guitar controller, but if you put the M6 into the right midi mode, and use an MPE controller that's set up to send on midi channels 1 thru 6, like my Roli Seaboard 49, the seaboard will play it with MPE. That means poly AT for pressure, and individual note pitch bends and slides. Gets super close to the CS-80 when programmed properly.
That is so cool! Thank you for letting me know!
You could have done a demo with numerous synths ( vintage and new ) awash with effects ! as was your demo of the Matrix 6 , and they all would have sounded pretty much the same. A better review would be to play the instrument with just a touch of reverb , this would then give the listener a truer impression of the overall sound.
I do turn the fx off at several points per the viewer's request, and you can hear the fx are surprisingly minimal. The synth sounds much more cinematic than you'd expect.
There are a lot of disctintive nuances that conforms the 'personality' of every synth... the character of the filter, the slope of the envelopes, the harmonic content of the oscillators...
Using the same fx chain with my Tetra, the Matrix-1k and the P12m, each of them keeps its particular sound signature....
Moreover, as with guitars, any synth sound you can hear on your favourite records has been processed in any possible way to fit in the mix...
Trust yout ears...
Cheers...!!
Thank you!
@Vulture Culture This was a standard message for the people who always ask for dry sound on each and every synth demo on youtube... lol....
I know you're not that kind....
Cheers...!
@@kaiwetronic Envelope shape/response is huge and often overlooked by manufacturers. The ASM Hydrasynth can program individual ADSR element slope shapes and amount of slope shape. Makes a big difference when programming an OB sound as it's slope has a soft curve at the top. Check out the manaul for the new OB-X8 and it shows the difference in curve responses between the X-Xa and the 8 were originally different. Another reason the sound changed more on the 8 than it did between the X and Xa (cross mod and sync not withstanding.)
Such a beautiful instrument
It really is!
So I read this from someone who claimed to have worked on the Matrix group of synths for Oberheim, back in the day. So take this with a grain of salt. As you all know, the M6’s DCOs are a custom Curtis synth on a chip (the CEM3396). So a digital clock generates a square wave that determines the frequency (pitch) of the oscillator instead of a voltage determining the frequency. But the two digital clocks were not synced together. Therefore, there would be slight deviations in both clocks resulting in slight deviations in the oscillator’s pitches. This slight detuning or “drift” created a fuller sound. So the DCOs in both CEM3396s behave closer to VCOs than most synced DCOs. Again, I can’t verify this.
That's actually correct with one little tweak, the Matrix 6 actually has 3 HFO's (high frequency oscillators) which are actually analog and not a digital clock. These are divided down, HFO1 is for all of DCO 1's voices, HFO2 is for voices 1 + 2 of DCO 2, and HFO3 is for voices 3-6 of DCO2.
In *theory* this could add some analog drift to the sound compared to a Matrix 1000 which uses one digital clock for all 12 DCO's just like a Juno 106. In practice I don't really know if it makes a real, world difference.
@@VultureCulture yes I heard from the same fellow that there was only one digital clock on the Matrix 1000, and therefore its DCO voices are always in tune. I don’t know how the drifting clocks make that much difference. I have a Matrix 6R and the fat sounds get that way by judicious detuning of the oscillators. Old school analogue techniques. By the way, thanks for the Legendary Synths 1.1 Sample Pack update.
Nice video. I love my M6 - it is the secret weapon of many producers.
It is absolutely magnificent!
After the DX7 the Matrix 6 would be my next favourite 80s gem. Alway underrated. Lovely sound.
It's really special and highly underated!
It is on my list for must have synths. If I can find one in good working order for a reasonable price.
Great synth, have a 6 R since 1993 and it still runs like a gem. No service needed. But it definetly doesn't have an SEM-Filter. Also the Oscillators are quite different from the other OBs but still good. I was used to program this expander without controller. And it's pretty fluent and easy once you understand the logic. It's like the same parameters are in 10s usually. So Osc1 is 1-9, then OSC2, Mix, Filter etc. It's pretty impressive though what features you have. Envelopes, Ramps, FM and a lot of more things which makes it one of the most capable analog synths. But it doesn't have the Multimodefilter of the Xpander or Matrix 12 (or SEM which would be Multimode as well). Best thing is the Modulation Matrix which brings this thing into Modular territory. Thus it's one of the few synths to even control the resonance of the filter by Modulators.
Some of the modulation possibilities are crazy!
@@VultureCultureOne of the few synths where you can modulate the resonance. Have you ever tried out what happens if you use Amp2?
I have not! What happens lol?
@@VultureCulture Try it out... there's some settings where this thing is starting its own life. Can't explain, not understand just wonder.
SEM is SVF.
I had a matrix 1000 and used it on everything! Secret weapon indeed!
They implemented a special midi mode where you could daisy chain 6 of them together.
(Never tried this but would love to see you do it!)
I’m a self proclaimed Oberheim fanboy and became fascinated with the rise and fall of the company.
Turns out Tom left (forced out) the company after the Matrix 12 was released. He didnt consider the M6, M1k to be ‘real’ Oberheims. They’re basically an entire synth on a VSLI chip. He went on to make a programmable rack synth very similar though called Marion MS2.
I loved my Matrix 1000. Wish I had kept it.
Thanks for the detailed video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it and thank you for the info! 🙏🙏🙏
I really enjoy your demo...!
Nothing new for me... but it was like being with a friend, spending time exploring his new synth... no rush...
Any Matrix is worth the money... the ultimate analog polysynth you may need...
It really is an incredible synth! The sound beats out everything else
YESSS...!!!
Modded my MKS-50 with an input to the chorus just for playing my Matrix-1k thru the magical infamous Juno chorus...
Stereo synth heaven...!!
Anyways, if you just plug it to a Zoom MS-70cdr pedal, using the Bass Ensemble fx opens the sound in the stereo field in a similar way...
Enjoy your Matrix...!!
(And check if it already has the latest firmware onboard)
Thank you for the tip! That sounds awesome!
@@ZenMountain Thank you... didn't notice...
Vcf key is the amount of cutoff frequency change you have depending on which key you press.
Aha! Key tracking! Thank you!
Absolutely awesome sounding synth.
It's really incredible. That filter though.
Great job. Love the oberheim synth in any size or denomination.
It really is an amazing creature!
I own an OBX8 and an OB-6 and thankfully I found a Matrix6 and 1000.... The Matrix 6 is very impressive indeed!!! Still I love ANY Oberheim synth because of it's true warmth and sound that hits deep in your musical soul...... :)
So true!
DuDe!!!!! Man thanks for the video. I just got one M6r and unfortunately I send it back because sometimes it powers On and sometimes not. I got mine from Syntaur. The sooner I got mine I start downloading my own favorite patches from the web like Brass, Pads and sweeps that sounds amazing. Thanks one again This Synth has the stamp sound of 1985.
It really is an incredible synth!
I really think it's a gem in synth world. I enjoy it very much. I had also MX1000 and even Marion ProSynth but I sold them and kept MX6 which provides to me good 80's pop rock patches!
Yeah it's really fantastic!
The Matrix 6 is a beast, and nothing but an OB has this specific sound. So so good!
It's crazy how good this synth sounds, especially compared to some of the "better" Oberheims
I use Matrix 6.for all my poly duties. Love it to bits.
One of the all time greatest
I own an OB-Xa and a matrix6 plus a matrix 1000.
The matrix 6 /1000 has the typical strings, brass syntha , brass pads that made Oberheim famous.
It sounds really beautiful but don’t expect it to sound as powerful, raw and gritty as an OB-Xa .there s a big difference. You will never make the jump sound for exemple on a M6/M1000 even if cou can make same style sound . The M6/M1000 dounds nearly identical to the xpdander/M12.
The Xoander ( i tested it ) is of course maybe the most powerful analog synth bass in term of synthesis programming but it has , like the M6, lose the extremely RAW and gritty sound of the OB-Xa.
There is a charisma to the OB series that can't be beat!
And those lose the extremely RAW and gritty sounds (especially lead synth sounds) are exactly the kind I use a lot and what made me love Oberheim, but dislike the Matrix 6.
Similar sonic thoughts here. Although, now my OBXA needs repair.
The oscillators are not digital, but they’re digitally controlled voltage oscillators (also the filters)
I've never heard of a DVCO - is that materially different from a DCO?
What is a voltage oscillator? Do you mean analog oscillator?
There're essentially only three types of oscillators - analog oscillators with tuning controlled by voltage, analog oscillators with tuning digitally controlled, and digital oscillators. The Matrix 6 has DCO's (digitally controlled analog oscillators)
Found a great deal on a brand new OB X8 and love it in spite of high cost. This looks great as well but vintage gear prices are sky high now.
You can usually find a Matrix 6 for around $1,500 - what did you pay for your X8 if you don't mind me asking?
@@VultureCulture over 4k and under 5k. Vintage OB Xa/X are selling over 10k and the new one gets in that territory easily.
Oh for sure! You can't find an original OB for under 8k - so in some sense the new version, which really does sound like the vintage ones, is a great bargain.
@@VultureCulture well I am happy with new OB X8 and center piece of studio. Less expensive than a Moog One or Waldorf Quantum.
I own a Matrix 6. In fact, I use it as a MIDI controller to play my OB6 Desktop Module. And having both and playing both I can definitely tell you that, although the M6 can sound good, it definitely does NOT compare well to the OB6. The M6 is a Curtis synth-on-a-chip DCO based machine, with Curtis filters. It sounds very Sequential much more than Oberheim. Especially besides a VCO, SEM-based polysynth with Oberheim filters (ARP actually). BTW, when the Matrix 6 was released in 1985, Tom Oberheim had left the company as well as Marcus Ryle, so there's almost nothing Oberheim about it except the front and back logos, which were owned by Gibson at that time.
But hey, if you're satisfied with your Matrix 6 and enjoy it very much and you like the way it sounds, that's the most important thing. Me, I prefer the sounds of my OB6. Much creamier and sweet.
Love the OB-6! This livestream was recorded right around the launch of the OB-X8 and my argument was, dollar-for-dollar, but you're better off with an M6 than an OB-X8 if you want that vintage Oberheim sound. The OB-6, especially used, is much closer in price and is without a doubt more powerful and sounds awesome.
One nitpick though, the most popular Oberheims were the OB-Xa and OB-8, which were also entirely based on CEM chips (although they were VCO's.) Only the much less manufactured OB-X used a SEM low pass filter.
What is the matrix modulation you are using with the matrix 6? I have an OBMX6 but need one of those !
I have no idea how to really program the mod matrix lol
@@VultureCulture the OB Matrix 6 is puzzling to program, all of a sudden I can’t get the Portamento to work, hoping the matrix mod will help, but doesn’t sound like it lol. Great sounding synth regardless, great yo midi chain and blend with other poly’s
My Matrix 1000 is still probably one of the best sounding synths I own. I believe it sounds more interesting to me than my Prophet 10. It's hard to say it... but it's how I feel. It's certainly nowhere near as interesting to look at though. Part of what sounds so good is the excellent programming that was done by the folks in the 80s to make this.
But I still don't know of a synth that sounds better to my ears. Wish I had the Matrix 6 instead, but here we are...
If I understand correctly the 1000 is the same under the hood as the 6.
When I discovered a patch on the Matrix that used velocity to modulate attack I realize that the synth was competing on a different level from the rest of the 80's analogue synths. Really incredible sounds!
@@VultureCulture It really goes beyond any other 80's synth in terms of programmability...
I don't want to bother anybody here by writing a whole 'Modern Matrix bag of tricks'... so, just a few short tips about the behaviour of the sustain pedal:
Surprisingly, it doesn't work as with other synths... not an infinite sustainer. You can make it trigger whatever you programmed in the mod matrix, even the sudden start of an envelope, driving crazy filter fm modulations each time you stomp the pedal...
If you notice strange clicks or retriggers when playing a patch using the pedal, the most common reason is the 'multi' setting on any of the envelopes trigger mode (check the Ramps as well). Setting them to 'single' should fix it... but sometimes, you may want that behaviour when looking for a realistic funk guitar strumming...
Filters sound great, first few seconds though I can here the dco aspect. Not bad just different. Still sounds awesome.
For sure it's the biggest drawback. I was expecting the filter to sound less awesome but I don't think that's the case.
@@VultureCulture even the mighty Juno 106 has that character with the more open filter sounds. Can be useful, horses for courses as they say. Either way the patch programming was vey good. Thanks for the video.
Glad you enjoyed! 🙏
how does it respond to real-time control while playing
Great - no noticeable latency!
Bro… compelling! Great job showing this thing off. I confess I’ve been tempted to get a pair of these instead of the X8…
A stereo M6 pair controlled by a Stereoping Controller or the like would be titanic!
@@VultureCulture Exactly!
I've got the exact Oberheim Matrix 6 with the ObiMagiX6000, this exact setup and she is in perfect condition. It was just gone thru by my keyboard tech. I'm truly thinking about selling it. And no, not to purchase the Oberheim OB-8X. I'm also not going to sell it for an arm and a leg either. And yes I will be including the ObiMagiX6000 with it. If interested, please give me a heads-up. Thank you!
@@dez1989 I found a stunningly mint one just 2 days ago. Looking forward to comparing it to the X8. Good luck… It shouldn’t be hard to find a buyer for yours!
@@JimDaneker Thank you for your kind comment! 🙏 I thought about the stereoping but I couldn't justify the cost. The ObiMagiX6000 is a fantastic controller at a fraction of the price. How it has opened up the possibilities of the Matrix 10 fold. Take care Jim.
For some a synth is about the journey to a sound(s) after you turn it on; sometimes you know where you want to go first and sometimes not. I am among the many (most?) who want knob per function instead of diving. I do feel the $5k price for what you get though (all SMB and all digital modulation) is ridiculous. Were I spending at that level I would scrape another grand and get the all discrete through hole Omega 8 every time; not even close. I feel it will be very interesting IF the UB-XA ever actually ships...
For what it's worth, the overpriced stereoping controller for a Matrix and the Matrix together is still only about $2,600 and gives you that one knob per function workflow.
I'm with you, 1 knob per function is where it's at. I'm doing a live stream on the Kawai K3 tonight and it's actually got a really elegant "alpha dial" esque press a button and move the dial interface - like the Nonlinear labs C15
@@VultureCulture then you are in new Polybrute territory and for me that decision would be not even close...
@@VultureCulture Heck, not even. I got my matrix 6 keyboard for $1000 USD, and then, thanks to the collapse of the euro, I got the stereoping programmer for $590 shipped from Germany. So basically $1600 all in gives me knob per function.
That is so freaking glorious lol
Let’s hear the 1984 and moving pictures patches.
I don't know if I got to them but I hope I did!
@@VultureCulture I know those patches are stock on the OBX8.
Where did you get the controller from ? Can't seem to find it anywhere...
www.ebay.com/itm/195154074308?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=2w2IvM9NQny&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=RT4_r-VYTUe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
@@VultureCulture You are a hero! I was looking at the Stereoping controller for years but it's way too expensive for just being a custom midi controller
The controller just arrived and it's working like a charm, just wanna thank you again
I'm always glad to help! 🙏
I do a live stream every Wednesday at 9 pm est, hope to see you sometime. We're covering the Ensoniq SQ-80 tomorrow 🎹
Sounds insane! My setup is 1x Matrix 1000 and 1x Matrix 6R running it in poly chan with 12 voice. Just waiting for the Synth Programmer. Demos are incoming in the future. Subscribe.
I definitely am looking for a programmer too! Let me know what you think when you get one!
@@VultureCulture Right! Will do!
@@VultureCulture So, now I got my new gear, the Stereoping Synth Programmer. It's amazing! Really fast for example on the filter cutoff, resonance. Heavy and stabile product. Here is mine with my music : ua-cam.com/video/XFkVezxAmY0/v-deo.html Every patch is now modifyable, it is a lot of fun to tweak all parameter!
The developer says it will be available for a short time, you'll have to wait half a year or a year to get one because the chip shortige and maybe the wooden sides are not longer available in the future.
Next level is now for me to running it in poly chain mode for 12 voice.
That is absolutely awesome and glorious! I need to sell my ass on the streets of lake worth beach to get one before they run out 😂
@@VultureCulture :) Definitely worth the money and who knows what is coming in the future, better you get one before it's to late.
The unit is built like a tank, knobs feels great. I have to dive into the features now, but now is so easy to modify some "bad" factory presets to wunderful patches.
is it easy to edit the sounds on this?
It's not unfortunately. Saving up for a programmer now
What the review doesn't reveal is the build quality of this era of Oberheim synths such as the Matrix 6, the Xpander and the Matrix-12. The display comes straight from a NEC cash register which was meant to last 5 years. Good luck trying to find a replacement for that. I did though. I sold my Xpander as I found the envelopes to be slow which makes it impossible to get any snappy sounds out of it. They're software generated which with an 1984 will never ever make it snappy. This also compromised the Matrix-6 and the Matrix-12 which essentially 2 Xpanders stacked upon each other which were manufactured at the time. Cool synths though. Many of your favourite rock, industrial and techno sounds came out these synths.
Mine was bought in the 80's and meticulously maintained by the owner. I'm not aware that the display had been replaced - but it totally is a cash register display 🤣
@@VultureCulture I never owned a Matrix-6 but as you play it, it sure sounds lovely. All my colleague musicians are selling off their OB-8s and OB-XAs to buy the OBX8. The addition of the SEM filters is a no-brainer to go and buy it. 3 synths in one.
You were talking about Synth Archive, what are their price ranges? I find it a little, or A LOT too much to purchase anything from Stereoping. I mean they have gone completely insane with their prices... just like any new junk from Tom Oberheim. You know, I'm fortunate to have many of the old synths that I drempt of when I was a kid and a young, struggling musician. Even though I am in a place where I could spend the money on a new Oberheim OB-8X, I absolutely will not give them a dime of my money! I still remember what it was like not being able to get a good synth because of how expensive they were. Tom, Moog they could cut their prices in half and still make a killing because they'd sell VOLUME! But no. They haven't learned any lessons. I would rather purchase a used Arturia Poly Brute, a used Korg Prologue and a Roland System 8. Those along with my Behringer Deepmind 12, 2 Poly-D's and a VC340 on top of my Wavestate, Radias, Fantom and one of my favorites, my Korg 2011 CX-3, I could get close enough to any sound I want and I won't get ripped off. I've got a Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue, Sub-37 and my Minitaur. I'm selling them except for the Minitaur. I use those with Roland PK-5A pedals to get a perfect Taurus pedal. I also just grabbed a Nord-2X and a Roland JD-XI, which I love! I can't support Moog or Oberheim any longer. Their noses are raised so high that they'd drown if it rained too hard. I also couldn't deal with Dave Smith until the Take-5 came out and I can even give him partial credit for the Rev2. There is absolutely NO REASON for any synth to be over 3000.00 today. And that's quite high for struggling musicians. There are so many ways that they could pull back on those prices! Moog workers went on strike earlier this summer. One worker Stated that he has a quota of 11 pieces that has to be done everyday. One of the synths he worked on cost around 4000.00 per unit. He said his pay was a little less than half of 1 of those units. Knowing that each and every synth is already sold because they can't keep up. He said how it made him sick Knowing that he couldn't come close to making that kind of money each month. One product cost 4000.00. He has to get 11 of them done a day. But he still makes less than half of what one of those synths sell for per month. It is hard not to looking at those companies as being thieves to the people who make them and to the typical keyboardist consumer who has no idea the obscene amount of profit these companies make on just 1 of their synths. Look, I am an unabashed capitalist. They can charge What they want to... that is if the market (people) will pay that price, you have every right to make that cash grab. However we as consumers have the power to tell these companies that we will not accept the price you want. When I see, hear, play and listen to a synth that cost half the price of one of these ripoff synths, I'll stick with the better synth for less cash! Can you say Arturia Poly Brute and many, many other synths out there today?
Prices for synths are so fascinating to me too.
I feel like if they can sell a shitload at that price, good for them, but I agree with you that the prices are out of control. I appreciate Moog putting out products like Mavis that are much, much cheaper.
Do you know that people were paying 3 times more to have an Ob in the 80s !?!?!
I don t have an OBX8 but i do have an OB-Xa and a Matrix6+Matrix1000. First the M6 even if it sounds really beautiful (a 4op fm synth can also sounds beautiful) you will never get that exceptional raw, powerful, gritty and simply better sound of the Obxa . 5000us for an X8 is a bargain. A shit car cost 15 000 and his value will be ZERO in 10 years. A nice piano starts at 20 000 us . and there s right now a 3 months wait in all Europe stores to have an X8 . They are sold out . Hopefully others have a brain
@@philippezsiga1125 Please forgive me. I know that what I'm saying is unpopular on this channel but because of where I come from, I just can't agree with most of you. I can not respect Mr.Tom Oberheim. I held him and his synths in high esteem for such a long period of time. What's odd is that now I can afford them, other than as a possible investment, I don't believe they are worth it! And I'm sorry, I don't purchase instruments to be investments. I purchase them to play! So basically if you are into Moog, Oberheim and a bunch of Sequential Circuits, you are either from an established band and you'll take them out to play or you simply have money. Most people who simply have money don't want to take their expensive investment out to play at a bar. So basically these synths are expensive unless blocks of plastic. Instruments are ment to be used and played! Tom is out to make his final cash grab and that is something I just can't respect! If Tom tried to make something great that most people could afford and use, I'd be happy to sing his praises. But that is the farthest thing from his mind! He doesn't care about putting Instruments in the hands of real working musicians or kids. Enjoy your last hooray Tom.
@@philippezsiga1125 I've been thinking about what you had to say about 5000.00 being a bargain. As I stated, I do own an OB-XA and a Matrix 6. Even Vulture Culture said that he has a bunch of older synths and he will not take them out to play gigs. Let's say you are in a fairly popular live band and you play a gig a week. Are you going to take a 5000.00 OB-X8 out to a fairly large bar to play? No, because it could get stolen, broken or any other possible catastrophes that can happen to that piece of equipment!
It is taking forever and I am losing my patience with Behringer playing games releasing their new UB-XA. HOWEVER If they release it at around 1500.00, I'll wait and purchase a used one. Maybe I'll even drop the entire 1500.00 on it. IF and I do say IF it sounds like it has sounded on the internet for their beta testing, that will become my new OB synth! I can take that out to play anywhere, anytime and it will not bother me for a minute! If it sounds like the OB and I could purchase 6used one for under 1300.00... That there is a Bargain! And it is usable! You would need your head examined if you went to purchase an OB-Anything and never get to use it! It comes down to simple economics. Tom can sell to all the cork sniffers like himself and never really make any difference in this world! When you know that same synth could be made for a little less (and trust me, there is a huge markup on this synth only because it says Oberheim) and sold for around 2500.00 or less. He would still make a killing simply because he would sell so many more than he will sell right now. The numbers sold would boggle the mind! He would be giving many, many more people a chance to have a real Oberheim! That is where he could make a difference because many more AVERAGE people just might splurge to spend 2500.00. That is still NOT a paltry price to pay, however a lot more fans who have loved Oberheim would do whatever it would take to buy one at a reasonable price! Tom Oberheim and the OB-BOT cork sniffers need their heads examined for thinking that 5000.00 is a bargain!
Look, I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHOSE NAME IS ON MY l
@@VultureCulture I agree. Like I said, I've thrown a few buckets of crap at Dave Smith also because of his prices. Also because of comments both he and Tom Oberheim made about Behringer. Yes, simply because Behringer is shining a light on them showing the world that these "legendary" synths are way, way overpriced! At least Dave Smith came out with the Take-5! I haven't checked into it just yet, however it is a Poly synth with all the controls at a reasonable price. Apparently Tom Oberheim believes he is above the Frey. Oh well, God bless him. If there is a market out there that likes to throw away money on a name, take advantage of it. What's amazing is that Behringer proves that you can sell a good product at a reasonable price, yet the cork sniffers will complain about it. Yet they will happily be taken advantage of by people with a certain name. They will throw thousands of dollars away on something they will likely under use, and they will praise be the name of the people who just overcharged them by a few thousand dollars. I just don't get it.
Can the OB-X8 replicate the Matrix 6 sound? I like the Matrix 6 pads. I was looking for a Matrix 6 but now with the new OB-X8....
The OB-X8 has VCO's and more filters than the Matrix6. On the other hand the modulation routing is more flexible on the Matrix6 so in theory there are certain sounds not reproducible on the OB-X8.
@@VultureCulture Thank you!
What about the matrix 6 vs the ob 6? Any thoughts?
I've never played an OB-6 but the state variable filter is pretty amazing and the interface is obviously much better.
I've got that vintage synth itch but for all intents and purposes the OB-6 is probably the way to go
@@VultureCulture thank you for the response
🙏
I own both. They have about 60% overlap. As mentioned the state variable filter on the OB-6 is awesome and a leap ahead of the M6. On the other hand, the M6 has a bit more modulation routing. The LFE expander (Yorick Tech) brings the OB-6 close/on-par (and can handle more complex aftertouch functions), but given that the OB-6 is expensive upfront that may be a barrier.
I like both, but probably drift a bit more towards the OB-6 given the immediate interface. However, I do not plan on parting ways with the M6.
The artist Lorn use(s/d) both on a number of songs/albums if you are looking for examples.
Thank you for the insight!
I would say Subdivisions - Rush is a more noticeable synth song, rather than Tom Sawyer, which was mainly a mini moog?
I was under the impression the famous growl sound came from an OB synth.
@@VultureCulture Oh you're right. It was an OB-X. Maybe the synth lead parts were a Moog. I'll fetch my coat.
Haha no worries man! Nothing to be ashamed about! I am *not an expert* on anything, especially Rush
As I mention on punkhead’s rant, the matrix 6 is a fantastic synth. I love it and use it from time to time. Nothing at all to do with OB series. Completely different kind of synth.
What are the biggest differences to you? Other than vcos obviously
@@VultureCulture the filter. It’s just a different experience. The sonic signature of the M6 is so tied to the filter which I would describe as harsh and low-mid dominant and blocky. It produces some excellent late 80s, controlled (read dco) palettes but the ob line filters are so sweet and smooth and fat and b/c of the architecture, untamed. I do love the low end on the m6 filter, especially when widened with Dimension D or the like.
I hope one day get to play an OB series synth! The filters are the stuff of legend!
Yeah, the 79/80s OB filters are just wonderful … the new X8 doesn’t have ‘it’ either (was noticeably lacking, not least, on preset D3 and some others), tho’ it is a great synth for other reasons and just generally; they just didn’t reproduce that same filter magic of the ‘OG OBs’, unfortunately …
@@kierenmoore3236 and you have an original OB and the new OB and compared first hand I assume? Coz otherwise your opinion is just conjecture.
Good job with the demo.
I bought one when they first came out and I still have it. I spent a lot of time creating patches, both using the instrument’s keypad and programming software. There are a couple of apps for iPad that you can use now. While the instrument does have its limitations and its particular flavour, just like every instrument. Having had mine for so long, I mostly want to hear it only on particular things. I never sold mine, because it filled a particular role more than satisfactorily. My biggest beefs - #1 In unison mode it does have a thicker sound, but it is not the same sort of fat sound that I want to hear. If I used unison, I usually used only oscillator one. #2 Paddles? Yuck. Super imprecise unless you limit the bend range to the lazy whole tone only setting.
Those Oberheim paddles are something else!
What's your favorite app to program with?
@@VultureCulture - Oh shoot, now I have to expose my nerdiness. Because the Matrix 6 is an 80s synth, I used an Atari 1040st computer to host programming software. (I actually still that computer and it still works. Has a whole megabyte of RAM.) Because I still have a couple synths from that era that I pull out now and then (more “then” than “now” 😁), long ago I went to Tim’s Atari MIDI Site and downloaded Atari emulating software for the PC and Caged Artists’ Matrix editing software so that I can still use the software that I used in the 1980s on a modern computer. (That is the late Tim Conrady’s site that someone has maintained long after he passed away. There is still a bunch of similar free 1980s Atari software available there. I guess that Tim got authors’ permissions.) If you have never run Atari programs that might all seem a bit convoluted.
A better and more modern solution is the iPad app called Patch Base. You buy editors a la carte. The older version that I have works a tiny bit better for the Matrix 1000 (which I also have) than it does for the Matrix 6. They might have improved the editing buffer functioning in the newer version.
Of course, for you the real time hardware editor that you have looks to be an awesome hands on solution. (You get great and flexible sounds.) I image that as you change parameters you can just save the edited versions into the Matrix’s memory. What is the unit that you are using and did you have to buy a chip with the newer Matrix OS to get it to all work well? Without such a unit, I have usually programmed the Matrix to respond to various MIDI CCs to get such real time control from a keyboard controller.
The other thing that bugged me about the Matrix is that the envelopes are not very snappy. They always felt a bit sluggish compared to, say a Minimoog or a Virus.
It's an ObiMagix6000 - no upgrades that I'm aware of!
That's so awesome that you go through all that length to edit sounds like the good ol' days
@@VultureCulture Cool. Thanks
Sand by Allan Holdsworth, most Oberheim album that i know of [Matrix 12] The most extreme Oberheim demonstration!
Good to know!
Those older board have an automatic vibe that just isn’t found in new hardware. What is it and how come they can’t recreate that? Is it aged components that make the sound?
There's an alchemy to limitations, to the best they could do at the time, to passionate people trying to make something memorable.
"OBERHEIM MATRIX 6 - Better than the OB-X8?"
I highly, highly doubt it. Loved the OB-X, Xa & 8. A friend of mine had a Matrix 6, and it seemed incapable of making most of the kinds of sounds I wanted. Same with the Matrix 1000. I suppose it depends on the kinds of sounds you want.
What kinds of sounds did you feel the Matrix 6 was lacking?
For the record I'm making the argument that the Matrix 6 is better *bang for your buck* than the OB-X8, if you're looking for that Oberheim sound.
@@VultureCulture Rock lead synth sounds especially.
@@n8goulet - I used to run mine through a RAT pedal, whaw and delay. Seemed to do a pretty good job for leads.
Glocke is Bell in German btw.
But Schwartzenboofen sounds Metal AF too...😂
Hahahaha
If the UBXa sounds this good, I'll be happy-slappy
We shall see. Jack's video was super underwhelming
i’m gonna sell my ob8x and get another SEM and mather a matrix 6 now
And this is how two Matrix 6R sound coupled via Stereoping's Polychainer: ua-cam.com/video/AXfMAXTTLgE/v-deo.html
That is truly incredible!
@@VultureCulture Thanks! To me those coupled two M6R's have more Vintage Oberheim-Mojo than the OB-X8 - and four voices more! :-)
There's a really strong argument for two M6's in stereo
Appreciate the absolute nutting out here. Make it four Matrix 6s next time please🎉🎉🎉
I own both, M6 isnt in the same league sound wise. The M6 has better modulation availability via the programming, but you are stuck with a few DCOs. It hasnt the balls of the OBX8. The OBX8 is impressive dry out of the box. If you get an M6 get one of the software editors they made. Its very tedious otherwise. I have owned the M6 for about 15 years. Other than reseating the Curtis chips it has worked pretty good. You can create decent sounds if you are patient with the interface. But, IMHO they will be ok, but nothing you couldnt create with a modern workstation. I paid about $800 for mine 15 years ago. Save your money
sounds great but I do believe demos should be made with zero FX
I do turn off the fx several times to show the difference. For me, I don't think it's as helpful to hear the synth completely dry as how it would actually sound in a mix. The chorus and the reverb are both dialed in low though so you can still hear the character of the synth.
@@VultureCulture I disagree but it's your page.my fav demos are completely and going through the cleanest imput possible. Symth demos recorded with the camera's mic make absolutely sense to me
Agreed.
I have 2x Matrix1000 in the Studio. It simply blows teh OB8/ OBXa, UBxA and whatever.
Why why why did I sell my Matrix 1000 way back when! Why! For a third what they are today.
Ugh that's painful to hear!
If you didn’t grow up in the 80s you probably are going to have a harder time guessing what those patch names are referencing….
Yeah - I'm sure I missed some of them!
Yes!!!
Theres no fuckin flamingos in Florida!
🖕🦩
🤣@@VultureCulture
Seems you ran this one a little hot...
Hey Vulture Culture, you wouldn't be an Alan Parsons fan would you?
I'm not - but I am aware of the song, which likely inspired the team at Rare to name the first level of the third world of Donkey Kong Country Vulture Culture - which is where I got the name from.
@@VultureCulture That is cool. I love your channel! I just stumbled upon you just a few days ago and I really like what I see! Keep up the great work!
I really, really appreciate that. Doing a UA-cam channel can feel like screaming into the void sometimes 🙏
Lol...best click bait of the day. Thanks. Tldr...no.
"OBERHEIM MATRIX 6 - Better than the OB-X8?"
Not even close! Don't kid yourself.
Try any lead sounds?
"Oberheim is known for the classic synth sounds from songs like "Jump" by Van Halen and "Tom Sawyer" by Rush."
Yes Oberheim is known for that with the OB-X series (OB-X, OB-Xa, OB-8 and now OB-X8. Don't think for a second the Matrix 6 in the same family.
As a huge fan of the OB-X series in the 80s, I found great disappointment in the sounds of my friends Matrix 6. I actually had better luck trying to replicate "famous" 80s/70s rock synth sounds with my Casio CZ. Check out RetroSounds video series on comparing the CZ's to expensive famous synths like the OB-Xa, Mini Moog and many others.
In addition, the Matrix 6 was terribly unreliable. My friend is very talented with electronic repair skills, and his Matrix 6 lived half it's life back at the factory due to frequent failures. The problems weren't even something he could just fix himself.
The CZ turned out to be the bargain of the century for me in replicating the kinds of famous sounds I needed for my cover bands. My friend spent several times as much money on his Matrix 6, and clearly didn't get his money's worth.
But the OB-X series were great. The Matrix 6 & 1000 shouldn't even be used in the same sentence as those instruments. When we think of the great Oberheim name, it was due to their other great instruments like the OB-X series, and earlier Four & Eight Voice synthesizer keyboards of the 70s.
Thank you for your viewpoint 🙏
I have to say that after I played it I agree that 50% isn't quite there with getting that OB-series sound. It sounds great but in a different way.
I actually am really hoping to find a decent CZ-1 to feature on the channel soon. I have an HT-6000 which should in theory be a higher end synth with its analog filters, but the prosumer grade interface and build hinders it.
@@VultureCulture Glad you enjoyed my post.
I started off with a CZ-101 in the mid 80s. I upgraded to the CZ-1000 a year later. Before long, I had two CZ-1000's. In the early 90s I bought a CZ-1 and I currently have two CZ-1's and two CZ-1000's.
You should also consider a VST of the CZ's. They can produce the same sounds. Arturia makes one, and these is another called Virtual CZ that is pretty good. But if you prefer it in hardware form, the CZ-1 was the best model of the CZ's made.
Yes, the CZ-1 is one of those bucket list synths everybody loves. Hope to get your input when I get around to making a video on it 🙏
@@VultureCulture Absolutely.
Alpes controller is better
I wish I could find one for a decent price!
@@VultureCulture the kit is significantly cheaper than most other controllers for the Matrix 6; additionally with the dollar a lot stronger than usual compared to the Euro it is basically on sale.
I’ve owned a matrix6 an ob8 and now an obx8 and not even close my friend so keep dreaming 😅😅😅😅😅
You've got a pretty awesome lineup of synths