I went with the horsepower cam since everyone else wanted the se torque cam, I wanted to be different n compare them, the bike dyno is 103 horse power at 4,86 rpm n 117 torque at 3.68 rpm, pipe is vance n hine power duals, n rinehart slip on, se tuner n se air cleaner, a mean sounding bike that is very capable running two up thru hills n still have great top end power on the freeway for racing home after a fun day of riding, or on the road
Hot damn she builds speed fast Welp.. I guess it’s big bore kit before them Carlinis for this winters upgrade Last year did 468 cam, catless headers, dyno tune (PV) oil pump , lifters etc .. 107 M8 105/115
For my 2017 FLHTK M8 I used, Zippers 468, S&S lifters, S&S Pushrods, S&S Cam plate and Bearing, S&S Oilpump kit, Feuling Crank sprocket and 8061 Cam chain, S&S Cam tensioner, NGK Iridium Sparkplugs, Moroso Race Spark plug Wires, HD’s stock Headpipe without cat and blocked “dummy hole” together with a Firebrand Loose Canon 4” Muffler mounted with a homemade resistor plate. It pulls like train and runs like an Animal…what more do you want ? ☠️😉✊🏻
I have a Stage 3, D&D 2-1 currently. I’m planning on this cam with PV tune. Would you suggest anything else? Cam plate & pump, injectors, and such? Also, S&S tappet cuffs.
Pretty much hardcore Asian Teague I also have big metric Cruiser when will Harley ditch that chain primary why do you have to put state123 to make it go just my opinionsl.p.
Hey Dexter, the stage 3 on the 107 is a big bore to a 114. I haven't done just the redshift cam on a factory 114. I have used that camshaft on a factory 107 and it really wakes them up. The last one I tuned made 105hp and 119tq. Pretty impressive for just a camshaft. That was also tuned with a power vision.
Now that the street and road glide special come with a 114ci I can't wait to see this cam in it. I heard stock cam is not as aggressive as stage 3 cam. And factory 114 has longer stroke + smaller bore than stage 3 114ci upgrade. Curious how that will effect the redshift 468 cam specs.
Trying to figure out if I should upgrade the stock intake on my FXDR for a full exhaust looks more than suitable just for the minimum upgrade Harley says it’s a heavy breather from factory
Nathan Pike, one more question before I call, have you tested the M8 with just the stage 2 set up but used any of these different cams to see where the hp and tq is between ( zippers Redshift, woods, s&s, Andrews, cycle rama) ? I'm seeing cam swaps with slip ons and A/C and tuner getting almost identical results as a stage 3 or 4 kit does.. I'm trying to justify the $700 cam swap only to $3000 stage 3 or $5000 for a stage 4 kit and getting close to same results. And of course the longevity of the motor by using these aftermarket parts. Thanks again.
Hey Jason, I haven't personally installed any of those other camshafts aside from screamin eagle products. Fuel Moto did do a really good review on all of those cams you listed. I think I still have it saved in my email if you interested in seeing it. As far as longevity goes, it all depends on how far you go with the build. We have several stage 3/4's that have been on the road a long time with no issues.
Nathan Pike Jason sent me link to this video. I have the stage 3 On my 2017 Ultra Ltd and I know the bike has more to offer. They didn't come out with stage 4 until after I built mine. My local dealer has been having issues with stage 4 so I'm glad I didn't do stage 4. My bike has D&D 2 into 1 which I've been told is decent exhaust. I love the idle of these cams. Mine don't lope even close to this. I think cams in stage 3 are 255's I believe. A little on the weak end.
sokodad I’m not a huge fan of the stage 4 personally. If you talking twin cams that would be a different conversation. The cam that comes in the stage 3 setup is an se498. It definitely does not have the idle lope of that redshift. You won’t see any horsepower gains but your torque numbers with shoot through the roof. Also your exhaust system is one of the best on the market.
Nathan Pike I looked up the fuel moto cam shootout . Says the redshift was in the middle etc. Why did you go with it over woods or S&S ? So many articles and reviews it's getting confusing at least.
No one really needs a stage 1,2, or 3 to enjoy riding a Harley-Davidson, but if Harley-Davidson really wants to do one thing here in 2018 and beyond they need to ditch their chain primary drive. A gear drive system should have been on the new Milwaukee 8 engine with the traditional primary cover in tact for the traditional appearance. Sooner or later Harley-Davidson will have to ditch the chain primary drive and get up with technology advancement as they have been doing since 2016.
How much TQ and HP can a stock motor handle at the crank assuming 108 HP and about 118 TQ on the M8? I am assuming crank run out is measured before install?
Ya you can do it however you want. The stage three not only is a different camshaft but also ups the displacement and the compression as well. But there’s no rule telling you how you wanna go about spending your money.
Hello Nathan Pike, I have a question about the dyno settings, and not to sound rude but, why do you test in CF: standard smoothing 5 mode instead of CF: SAE Smoothing 5 mode??? And how much will those numbers change by changing that setting?? I enjoyed the video and that bike sounds and runs amazing. Exactly what I'm looking for. I'm interested in doing almost same set-up with an S&S headpipe instead but not sure if I should do the Zipper 468 cam or S&S 465 or stick with the HD Stage 3 498 cam for warranty purposes. Any suggestions? And how much better does the Power Vision tuner do over HD street tuner?? Thanks. By the way my bike is a 2017 ultra limited 107.
Hey Jason, with the new dynaware rt stack from dynojet. The number difference between standard and sae is very minor. I highly suggest doing your homework before pulling the trigger. I have done quite a few stage 3 kits with the se498 and the difference between that setup and the 468 is pretty crazy. The 498’s you’ll see about the the same hp but I’ve never seen more than 125 lbft of torque. On another note. There is no contest between the power vision and the street tuner. If you would like to know exactly why, that would be a conversation to be had in person or over the phone.
Nathan Pike I'm trying to read up and watch videos for more info but there's just not hardly anything on these M8 yet. I've talked to a few bikers and tech's that have done different things to their bikes, but most don't have dyno done or their setup is totally different than what I'm looking at. So I appreciate the videos and info you have. I guess the main concern is aftermarket parts and the warranty being voided. Parts and labor aren't cheap..lol I was shocked to see that torque number that high and why I asked about the dyno settings. Very impressive. What was the reason they chose the stage 3 over a stage 4, besides cost?? Thanks again for responding.
Ya I was pretty blown away by the torque numbers as well. The guys at Zippers said that was the highest torque number that they have seen out of this camshaft yet. On the question of stage 3 over stage 4. I have done quite a few of both and honestly the stage 4 is not very impressive and the ride ability kinda goes out the window. That's not to say It doesn't perform well, it's just not for everybody. The stage 4 is for more the hot rodder higher rpm guys. Most people want the low end torque of the stage 3. Everybody that I've done these stage 3 builds for have been over the moon happy. If you have any specific questions call me at 573-875-4444 I would be more than happy to go over options and concerns with you.
Nathan Pike I commented above what my bike has. I read the cam comparison you sent Jason and he forwarded to me. I'm guessing you would suggest Zipper cams on my bike? I have 2017 Ultra Ltd with stage 3 kit from HD and a D&D 2 into 1 with D&D headpipe. I'm not sure if Stutsman HD has dealt with Zipper or not but they use the power vision.
We used an .040. zero detonation issues. I was skeptical myself before doing this first one. Zippers assured me it wouldn't be an issue and they where right. I have since done probably a dozen of these with no issues.
Did I miss something here? Did you go bigger pistons? Why did you have the heads off? Is this a M8107 with just a cam, header, slip on's, A/C and tune? The video was so fast on the build I could not tell exactly what all was done.
Emmett Helm the description says it all. It’s a stage 3, which is a 114 high compression big bore for the 107. With the se498 cam exchanged for an rs468 camshaft. The camshaft is from zippers performance. Tuned on a dynojet 250i using the dynaware rt stack with a power vision. If you have any specific questions, call the shop at 573-875-4444
Thanks for the clarification, I actually figured that out once I watched it over. I still cannot believe how hard that thing pulls and pegs the speedo !!. I was not sure if it was a 114 or 117. I am not that interested in the big bore kit for my 17 RGS. I really like that 468 cam profile on duration and timing with the new design 4V heads. Still tossing around that and the S&S choices. Are you using the stock HD pump and plate on the early production models or using SE, Fueling or S&S? Thanks for the reply and keeping your posts updated !!
@@PikeNat I did the same build 2.5 years ago when I bought my bike. (Before the 128/131 announcements) For the 20 percent parts discount that comes with new bike purchase and to retain warranty. Kept the 498 and SE tuner but did S&S Superstreet 2-1. It made 116HP but only 116 TQ
Nathan Pike hey do you work at mid America HD ? I am having problems with my stage 3 114 and my dealership doesn’t seem to think it needs fixed. Constant detonation when cruising down the interstate. It has the smart tune pro on it now from HD. It needs fixed or it’s gotta go boom.
Yes sir I do. You should have 0 detonation issues as long as you are burning the best fuel you can find. Not to start to much online crap, but not a fan of the Auto tune anything, especially if it has anything to do with the street tuner. Your tuning options are super limited. Call me Wednesday though Sunday and I will do what I can to help you rid your bike of this issue.
I love the looks of Harley but too heavy for me. For there prices they should come from the factory with these options. My 2018 super Duke 1290r, comes from the factory with 177 horsepower, no kits needed.
Nathan Pike Thanks! I just can’t see why Harley would not allow us to take it off with their tuner! Pointless to have all that power and not get to utilize it! Bad ass bike you got!
How does every other bike company can make a bike with 1hp per cube stock but Harley? For Harley it 2hp per thousand spent on a $25 thousand dollar bike for fucks sake bmw k1600 gt has 160hp and 130tq stock for $22 thousand and won't break .I'm so mad at Harley....
Do this upgrade, you won't regret it,it's a totally different bike,it's the way Harley should build them.
Micheal Sloan is this your bike ?
Is this your bike !
@@freedom6919741 yes it is
Micheal Sloan any issues and how many miles have you put on it ?
@@freedom6919741 no issues almost 10k since upgrade, wouldn't change a thing.
Getting it installed now, can’t wait to get the bike back!!
Sounds and seems to perform exceptional
I got this cam with 107 engine stage 1 kit , love it , 102 hp 117 torque
Doug Snyder stage 1 doesn’t get a cam . Stage 2 does.
That would make it a Stage II brother
I went with the horsepower cam since everyone else wanted the se torque cam, I wanted to be different n compare them, the bike dyno is 103 horse power at 4,86 rpm n 117 torque at 3.68 rpm, pipe is vance n hine power duals, n rinehart slip on, se tuner n se air cleaner, a mean sounding bike that is very capable running two up thru hills n still have great top end power on the freeway for racing home after a fun day of riding, or on the road
Hot damn she builds speed fast
Welp..
I guess it’s big bore kit before them Carlinis for this winters upgrade
Last year did 468 cam, catless headers, dyno tune (PV) oil pump , lifters etc ..
107 M8
105/115
Man you work fast
For my 2017 FLHTK M8 I used, Zippers 468, S&S lifters, S&S Pushrods, S&S Cam plate and Bearing, S&S Oilpump kit, Feuling Crank sprocket and 8061 Cam chain, S&S Cam tensioner, NGK Iridium Sparkplugs, Moroso Race Spark plug Wires, HD’s stock Headpipe without cat and blocked “dummy hole” together with a Firebrand Loose Canon 4” Muffler mounted with a homemade resistor plate.
It pulls like train and runs like an Animal…what more do you want ? ☠️😉✊🏻
Too bad you didn't install S&S cam plate & oil pump. No break in with new cyls & pistons! Wow! Glad it is not my bike.
Holy crap that things pulls hard in 5th
I have a Stage 3, D&D 2-1 currently. I’m planning on this cam with PV tune. Would you suggest anything else? Cam plate & pump, injectors, and such? Also, S&S tappet cuffs.
That's the business right there!
so how is the bike running today , would you change anything ?
I have a stage 3 with the 498 cam a real power house!
Why is the torque dropping off so early. I've seen this cam in other builds like this, & the torque stays level all the way to near red line.
Porkchop's Papi cuz of the exhaust. Correct exhaust will not se a dramatic dip like that
That is the most unusual torque curve for this cam.
Pretty much hardcore Asian Teague I also have big metric Cruiser when will Harley ditch that chain primary why do you have to put state123 to make it go just my opinionsl.p.
Is the video sped up X2 during test ride!?
pretty impressive and sounds damn good.have you guys tried anything on the 114s
Hey Dexter, the stage 3 on the 107 is a big bore to a 114. I haven't done just the redshift cam on a factory 114. I have used that camshaft on a factory 107 and it really wakes them up. The last one I tuned made 105hp and 119tq. Pretty impressive for just a camshaft. That was also tuned with a power vision.
will that cam void warranty or only if installed by some place other then HD.thanks for the info love the vids
That's all up to your local HD dealer.
Now that the street and road glide special come with a 114ci I can't wait to see this cam in it. I heard stock cam is not as aggressive as stage 3 cam.
And factory 114 has longer stroke + smaller bore than stage 3 114ci upgrade.
Curious how that will effect the redshift 468 cam specs.
Trying to figure out if I should upgrade the stock intake on my FXDR for a full exhaust looks more than suitable just for the minimum upgrade Harley says it’s a heavy breather from factory
Jason T so I need a different intake? I dig the stock one tho 😩
New sub!
Nathan Pike, one more question before I call, have you tested the M8 with just the stage 2 set up but used any of these different cams to see where the hp and tq is between ( zippers Redshift, woods, s&s, Andrews, cycle rama) ? I'm seeing cam swaps with slip ons and A/C and tuner getting almost identical results as a stage 3 or 4 kit does.. I'm trying to justify the $700 cam swap only to $3000 stage 3 or $5000 for a stage 4 kit and getting close to same results. And of course the longevity of the motor by using these aftermarket parts. Thanks again.
Hey Jason, I haven't personally installed any of those other camshafts aside from screamin eagle products. Fuel Moto did do a really good review on all of those cams you listed. I think I still have it saved in my email if you interested in seeing it. As far as longevity goes, it all depends on how far you go with the build. We have several stage 3/4's that have been on the road a long time with no issues.
Nathan Pike Jason sent me link to this video. I have the stage 3 On my 2017 Ultra Ltd and I know the bike has more to offer. They didn't come out with stage 4 until after I built mine. My local dealer has been having issues with stage 4 so I'm glad I didn't do stage 4. My bike has D&D 2 into 1 which I've been told is decent exhaust. I love the idle of these cams. Mine don't lope even close to this. I think cams in stage 3 are 255's I believe. A little on the weak end.
sokodad I’m not a huge fan of the stage 4 personally. If you talking twin cams that would be a different conversation. The cam that comes in the stage 3 setup is an se498. It definitely does not have the idle lope of that redshift. You won’t see any horsepower gains but your torque numbers with shoot through the roof. Also your exhaust system is one of the best on the market.
Nathan Pike
I looked up the fuel moto cam shootout .
Says the redshift was in the middle etc.
Why did you go with it over woods or S&S ?
So many articles and reviews it's getting confusing at least.
Awww Hi Holy Hell look at those numbers.
No one really needs a stage 1,2, or 3 to enjoy riding a Harley-Davidson, but if Harley-Davidson really wants to do one thing here in 2018 and beyond they need to ditch their chain primary drive. A gear drive system should have been on the new Milwaukee 8 engine with the traditional primary cover in tact for the traditional appearance.
Sooner or later Harley-Davidson will have to ditch the chain primary drive and get up with technology advancement as they have been doing since 2016.
How much TQ and HP can a stock motor handle at the crank assuming 108 HP and about 118 TQ on the M8? I am assuming crank run out is measured before install?
It absolutely is. We haven’t seen any flywheel shift to date on the m8s yet. All the way up to 135hp and over 140 lbft of tq.
Can't seem to find anything on "MAHD" headpipe. Am I misreading something? And which specific RCX muffler are you using?
That is our modified factory head pipe. The mufflers are 4.5 inch rcx.
Can you do the stage 1 and jump to stage 3 since stage 2 is only a new cam and stage 3 is a new cam???
Ya you can do it however you want. The stage three not only is a different camshaft but also ups the displacement and the compression as well. But there’s no rule telling you how you wanna go about spending your money.
What fuel tuner was used on this upgrade?
Wow
the MAHD headpipe is that a decatted stock head pipe or something different?
It’s is a modified stock header.
When Harley goes to the bank for capital they are asked what collateral they have.
HD just says STAGE.
Bank nods knowingly.
It pains me to see such a dope build with the OEM catted headpipes and the stock cam chest and oil pump
Have you worked with the 472 cam?
@Jordan Dennis Moonshine HD tested the 472 in their cam shootout.
114?
What tuner
Power Vision
Hello Nathan Pike, I have a question about the dyno settings, and not to sound rude but, why do you test in CF: standard smoothing 5 mode instead of CF: SAE Smoothing 5 mode??? And how much will those numbers change by changing that setting?? I enjoyed the video and that bike sounds and runs amazing. Exactly what I'm looking for. I'm interested in doing almost same set-up with an S&S headpipe instead but not sure if I should do the Zipper 468 cam or S&S 465 or stick with the HD Stage 3 498 cam for warranty purposes. Any suggestions? And how much better does the Power Vision tuner do over HD street tuner?? Thanks. By the way my bike is a 2017 ultra limited 107.
Hey Jason, with the new dynaware rt stack from dynojet. The number difference between standard and sae is very minor. I highly suggest doing your homework before pulling the trigger. I have done quite a few stage 3 kits with the se498 and the difference between that setup and the 468 is pretty crazy. The 498’s you’ll see about the the same hp but I’ve never seen more than 125 lbft of torque. On another note. There is no contest between the power vision and the street tuner. If you would like to know exactly why, that would be a conversation to be had in person or over the phone.
Nathan Pike I'm trying to read up and watch videos for more info but there's just not hardly anything on these M8 yet. I've talked to a few bikers and tech's that have done different things to their bikes, but most don't have dyno done or their setup is totally different than what I'm looking at. So I appreciate the videos and info you have. I guess the main concern is aftermarket parts and the warranty being voided. Parts and labor aren't cheap..lol I was shocked to see that torque number that high and why I asked about the dyno settings. Very impressive. What was the reason they chose the stage 3 over a stage 4, besides cost?? Thanks again for responding.
Ya I was pretty blown away by the torque numbers as well. The guys at Zippers said that was the highest torque number that they have seen out of this camshaft yet. On the question of stage 3 over stage 4. I have done quite a few of both and honestly the stage 4 is not very impressive and the ride ability kinda goes out the window. That's not to say It doesn't perform well, it's just not for everybody. The stage 4 is for more the hot rodder higher rpm guys. Most people want the low end torque of the stage 3. Everybody that I've done these stage 3 builds for have been over the moon happy. If you have any specific questions call me at 573-875-4444 I would be more than happy to go over options and concerns with you.
Nathan Pike I commented above what my bike has. I read the cam comparison you sent Jason and he forwarded to me. I'm guessing you would suggest Zipper cams on my bike? I have 2017 Ultra Ltd with stage 3 kit from HD and a D&D 2 into 1 with D&D headpipe. I'm not sure if Stutsman HD has dealt with Zipper or not but they use the power vision.
Jason Ingle e
Did you use .030 or .040 head gasket and did you have any detonation problems with the 11:1 compression ratio with this cam?
We used an .040. zero detonation issues. I was skeptical myself before doing this first one. Zippers assured me it wouldn't be an issue and they where right. I have since done probably a dozen of these with no issues.
Did I miss something here? Did you go bigger pistons? Why did you have the heads off? Is this a M8107 with just a cam, header, slip on's, A/C and tune? The video was so fast on the build I could not tell exactly what all was done.
Emmett Helm the description says it all. It’s a stage 3, which is a 114 high compression big bore for the 107. With the se498 cam exchanged for an rs468 camshaft. The camshaft is from zippers performance. Tuned on a dynojet 250i using the dynaware rt stack with a power vision. If you have any specific questions, call the shop at 573-875-4444
Thanks for the clarification, I actually figured that out once I watched it over. I still cannot believe how hard that thing pulls and pegs the speedo !!. I was not sure if it was a 114 or 117. I am not that interested in the big bore kit for my 17 RGS. I really like that 468 cam profile on duration and timing with the new design 4V heads. Still tossing around that and the S&S choices. Are you using the stock HD pump and plate on the early production models or using SE, Fueling or S&S? Thanks for the reply and keeping your posts updated !!
@@PikeNat I did the same build 2.5 years ago when I bought my bike. (Before the 128/131 announcements) For the 20 percent parts discount that comes with new bike purchase and to retain warranty.
Kept the 498 and SE tuner but did S&S Superstreet 2-1. It made 116HP but only 116 TQ
Would your parts be covered under Harley Davidson's warranty?
Harleys parts arent even covered under harleys warranty
Joshua Crawford aftermarket parts are not covered by Harley’s warranty.
Warranty only lasts so long anyway. Why do people get so hung up on it. Just enjoy and upgrade
That dip in low RPM range is horrible. Is that the exhaust ?
100% a little bit slightly to throttle progressivity.
Nathan Pike hey do you work at mid America HD ? I am having problems with my stage 3 114 and my dealership doesn’t seem to think it needs fixed. Constant detonation when cruising down the interstate. It has the smart tune pro on it now from HD. It needs fixed or it’s gotta go boom.
Yes sir I do. You should have 0 detonation issues as long as you are burning the best fuel you can find. Not to start to much online crap, but not a fan of the Auto tune anything, especially if it has anything to do with the street tuner. Your tuning options are super limited. Call me Wednesday though Sunday and I will do what I can to help you rid your bike of this issue.
Nathan Pike I will call you tomorrow. What time do you get in ?
Just go bike back from dealer. They say that it’s ok for it to ping like that. I think they are high.
If I took this cam and did a stage three on a 114 m8 with bassanni 2into1 on a heritage soft tail what kind of numbers do you think we would see?
I would bet the tq numbers would drop slightly and the hp would increase. Aside from that you would see a waaaaayy better tq curve.
I love the looks of Harley but too heavy for me. For there prices they should come from the factory with these options. My 2018 super Duke 1290r, comes from the factory with 177 horsepower, no kits needed.
But it’s a completely different style of bike. Factory is a base line to start from and every single bike takes a different route there after.
I’ll bust it all day with a 96 ci. Lol
You left out the tuner which was used.
Sorry Duane. It was tuned with a power vision.
Nathan Pike Does the Power Vision Timer remove the 110mph speed limiter?
NicholsIncorporated That’s affirmative sir.
Nathan Pike Thanks! I just can’t see why Harley would not allow us to take it off with their tuner! Pointless to have all that power and not get to utilize it! Bad ass bike you got!
NicholsIncorporated EPA. That’s all I have to say about that.
How does every other bike company can make a bike with 1hp per cube stock but Harley? For Harley it 2hp per thousand spent on a $25 thousand dollar bike for fucks sake bmw k1600 gt has 160hp and 130tq stock for $22 thousand and won't break .I'm so mad at Harley....
That's a BS video just so you all know.. Watch the gauges before he starts and then as he just gets going through the gears. All fake.