Guy on eBay Ned Clayton, sells some very reasonably priced and built to the highest US made standard. I bought one of his own, 4 different windings to accommodate my Lo-out Grados as well as my MC Denon. 1:5, 1:6.7, 1:10 and 1:20
Great video Ed! Just as another route I have a sumiko blue point no 3 low output mc and I go into a schiit skoll phono stage $400. The skoll is mm and mc. It sounds wonderful. Cartridge is $469. I went with skoll because that phono stage is fully balanced with xlr in and out (also rca). By going with a mc cart out of certain project TT you can actually push out a fully balanced signal. I use custom xlr cables with built in ground(blue jeans). Anyway they also have the same sumiko blue point no 3 mc cart in high output and you can use a mm phono stage! There you get the mc sound but without having to get a mc phono stage! Just other options for your vinyl. Thx for video. Really interesting product.
I've been using the Parks Audio Budgie SUT with my Denon 103R and Technics EPC-310MC. great success with them. Thank You for the tip about running a wire from the SUT to the back of the amp.
Got a Denon DL 301 cartridge. I was running it with a solid state phono amp in the high gain position for MC. For some reason it was a bad match. The top end seemed badly rolled off like a treble control set to the left. At first I just assumed it was the characteristic of the cartridge as I had used other affordable MC in the past without the issue. But I ended up buying a used Denon SUT from Japan on fleebuy because in the US I could only find expensive SUT. No Denons. The SUT with the preamp at MM gain setting made all the difference in the world, now smooth clean highs. Why it worked I dunno. But it was worthwhile.
Lot of used MC SUT in Japan for sale. That was the only economical route to go for me and I got a Denon AU 320 for cheapish. They are apparently not bulletproof because a guy sold me a Fidelity Research SUT out of NY before that and I had to return it for a bad winding even though he claimed it worked. The thing about a transformer is it does not add any noise with the voltage gain, unless the shielding is poor. They use either steel or Mu metal shields to keep out hum pickup but I would not set it on top of other gear maybe.
Emotiva BasX Tuner/Preamp/DAC/Intergrated Amp not only does MM/MC but also has bass managment built in. All for $599 I got mine on sale for $499. So if you want to get into audio that can grow with you but has everything you need to get into the game consider it! I do not recall if it is 60wpc into 8ohm or 80wpc into 8ohm and 4ohm rated. Oh and it does bluetooth as well! The phono stage in the Emotiva is fantastic!
Another aspect of SUT’s….their distortion decreases into higher frequencies unlike solid state step ups. Rothwell Audio has a very good treatise on SUTs you’d enjoy reading Ed.
Just a comment here, back in the 80’s I had a Kenwood M1/C1 and ran a Denon 103 Moving Coil Cartridge and really enjoyed it. I lost the cartridge in a move, but it's on the things I need to get when I win the lottery. I currently use a vintage Denon Integrated Amp, which has a MC preamp built in, but alas no Denon 103 cartridge. I am currently using a Grado Blue MM.
Thanks for introducing this option. Most reviewers ignore this. Would using a good but inexpensive phono preamp like the mani 2 be an even cheaper option. Have both a skoll and mani 2 and enjoy them
I'm using the ART Precision Phono Preamp, it supports both MM and MC cartridges, has adjustable gain and switchable rumble filter. It's also very affordable.
I prefer moving magnet carts, but Moving Coil carts are good too. I have both. The MC cart I have is a Denon DL110, which I paid less than $100 for some years ago and is still new in box. I have not mounted yet. I will someday. My phono preamp can handle anything. I just realized that the DL110 goes for $400 now, I think that is stupid and a sad note, but that has also happened to all my gear that is still made. All of it has increased in price 2.5X! I'm glad I got it when I did because I could not even dream of it now, but I also don't like that it has increased. That's just me.
Big fan of SUTs. I have an Ortofon Quintet Black S on my AR XA turntable and I run RCA from there to a Rothwell MCL step up transformer then to the phono input on my Plinius 8150. It's sublime!
One thing I would have liked to hear is a direct comparison between turntable->step-up->MM Phono stage vs turntable->MC phono stage. There are people who think that a step-up is just superior period to the MC option on phono stages so I would have appreciated your experience on this comparison.
I think it was about a year ago Guttenberg did a video with a number of SUT's. IIRC on several he liked the SUT with a standard MM phono pre amp to a dedicated MM/MC pre amp. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I enjoyed this one, Ed. Another lower cost option for an MC cartridge that is well regarded is the Denon 301 mk II. It comes in around $300 as well. I currently run it with an MC capable phono preamp (the wonderful iFi Zen Phono), but I’d be interested to try an SUT in MM mode for comparison. This is quite an interesting looking unit. Might just have to pick one up just to try it out.
i got a Denon used AU 320 from Japan for much less than any current production because I was in the dark whether it would pay off with the 301 or not make a difference. Yes, it sure did. With my specific MC MM compatible phono preamp.
Hana EL with Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+. Great sounding combo through Marantz 50.. It does extend beyond the capabilities of my Project Debut EVO turntable though.
Not sure why anyone would select an elliptical stylus when you could get Shibata or Microline? Elliptical Styli seem to collect dust and plastic particles as they are playing sometime impacting sound quality and consequently requiring cleaning after playing a couple of tracks. And yes I have cleaned my albums before playing them.
I think the Schiit Mani 2 also supports Moving Coil cartridges. $150 US. Is it worth considering the Mani 2 if you want to try an MC cartridge, or is this product you are demonstrating a higher quality?
I have an Alva Duo and found the MM side fine but I was a bit disappointed in the MC side. Could just be a miss match with my AT cart. I do know the EVO has the same MM pre as the Alva and with the SUT is is really good. Thx for asking and watching.
With the SUT on my preamp in the MM gain setting it is 47k and no capacitance added like you have to for some MM carts. The Denon transformer 40 ohm primary is a good match with my Denon cart. They also have a position for some very low impedance MC cartridges but I am thinking that is unusual these days.
One question Ed. I noticed on the website for NC25-C Step Up Transformer, the bandwidth is listed as 35 Hz-6KHz. Is that correct? Did you notice anything different or strange in terms of the frequency response? Cheers. Just curious. That was the only thing that prevented me from purchasing this unit previously.
The 2M Black LVB now fluctuates between $1k and $1.1k. While I generally agree with you about MC vs MM the better MM have a better cut diamond and usually a boron cantilever. The lower end MC are usually elliptical wih aluminum. Those better MM usually sound better as a result. But, like you said, a SUT is an easy way to get into MC without having to buy an entirely new phono preamp and the SUT will generally sound better until you get into higher end MC capabile phono preamps.
Not necessarily. I have a Denon DL-103R and it sounds really good. You can get an Audio-Technica AT33SA Dual Moving Coil Phono Cartridge that should be better than almost all MM cartridges. It’s got a boron cantilever with a shibata cut diamond. Hard to beat at $800
Yes… MC → SUT → MM-Phono-Stage verses MC → MC-Phono-Stage degenerates into a debate not unsimilar to the solid-state verses tube debate. Some folks are in one camp, some the other. The middle of last year, Steve Gutenberg, Audiophiliac, did an episode reviewing a number of SUTs. Notably, as a longtime MC-Phono-Stage user, he flip-flopped and is now a proponent of SUTs.
Nothing new here this was common in the 1970's and it is not the best way to go. You are far better off having a seperate additional preamp circuit or stage before the final phono stage. The problem with step up transformers is the exact same limitations that you find in all audio transformers like what we see in tube amps. It is almost funny because people think the sound of a tube amp is mostly down to the tubes but in reality it is mostly down to the audio output transformers that must be used with 99.8% of tube amp designs. All phonostages that have MC ability either add in an aditional solid state amplifications stage or they add in step up transformer when you hit the switch to go from MM to MC. Anyways the "tube" sound is mostly do to the characteristics of audio transfromers. While upgrading transformers can be done it is not the cheap and easy peasy procedure like tube rolling is!
@@buckaroobonsi555 I beg to disagree. SUT's sound great and are very quiet. An output transformer is critical to the sound of a tube amp but it's not what makes the typical tube sound. That is made by the tube itself which is a more linear amplification device than a transistor and requires much fewer circuit components to make a complete amp. Simplicity = transparency.
Guy on eBay Ned Clayton, sells some very reasonably priced and built to the highest US made standard. I bought one of his own, 4 different windings to accommodate my Lo-out Grados as well as my MC Denon. 1:5, 1:6.7, 1:10 and 1:20
Great video Ed! I learned something new today and I don't even do vinyl. I just like learning about it.
Thank you sir.
Thanks for reviewing a SUT. I have had great success with them.
Great video Ed! Just as another route I have a sumiko blue point no 3 low output mc and I go into a schiit skoll phono stage $400. The skoll is mm and mc. It sounds wonderful. Cartridge is $469. I went with skoll because that phono stage is fully balanced with xlr in and out (also rca). By going with a mc cart out of certain project TT you can actually push out a fully balanced signal. I use custom xlr cables with built in ground(blue jeans). Anyway they also have the same sumiko blue point no 3 mc cart in high output and you can use a mm phono stage! There you get the mc sound but without having to get a mc phono stage! Just other options for your vinyl. Thx for video. Really interesting product.
Nice set up. Thank you my freind.
Thanks Ed! Very helpful and interesting. Keep up the great work
Digital Dan watching analog videos??? Thank you my friend. I hope you are enjoying the New Year.
I've been using the Parks Audio Budgie SUT with my Denon 103R and Technics EPC-310MC. great success with them. Thank You for the tip about running a wire from the SUT to the back of the amp.
Glad to help. Thx.
Thanks for this video. I have a signet MC cartage from back in the day, this is a good way of using that cartage.
Agreed.
Holy sh*t… I was looking for this MC step up transformer just last week! 😂
Thank you Ed, you are a world of useful audio knowledge and information. 🙏🏼
Glad I could help! Thx.
Got a Denon DL 301 cartridge. I was running it with a solid state phono amp in the high gain position for MC. For some reason it was a bad match. The top end seemed badly rolled off like a treble control set to the left. At first I just assumed it was the characteristic of the cartridge as I had used other affordable MC in the past without the issue. But I ended up buying a used Denon SUT from Japan on fleebuy because in the US I could only find expensive SUT. No Denons. The SUT with the preamp at MM gain setting made all the difference in the world, now smooth clean highs. Why it worked I dunno. But it was worthwhile.
Lot of used MC SUT in Japan for sale. That was the only economical route to go for me and I got a Denon AU 320 for cheapish. They are apparently not bulletproof because a guy sold me a Fidelity Research SUT out of NY before that and I had to return it for a bad winding even though he claimed it worked. The thing about a transformer is it does not add any noise with the voltage gain, unless the shielding is poor. They use either steel or Mu metal shields to keep out hum pickup but I would not set it on top of other gear maybe.
Emotiva BasX Tuner/Preamp/DAC/Intergrated Amp not only does MM/MC but also has bass managment built in. All for $599 I got mine on sale for $499. So if you want to get into audio that can grow with you but has everything you need to get into the game consider it! I do not recall if it is 60wpc into 8ohm or 80wpc into 8ohm and 4ohm rated. Oh and it does bluetooth as well! The phono stage in the Emotiva is fantastic!
I have a Kondo Audio Note SUT, and it's probably my favorite part of my system. Nothing else comes close to improving the overall sound of my system.
Another aspect of SUT’s….their distortion decreases into higher frequencies unlike solid state step ups. Rothwell Audio has a very good treatise on SUTs you’d enjoy reading Ed.
Thanks for the info
Didn't even know these existed. Thanks for the review!
You bet!
Just a comment here, back in the 80’s I had a Kenwood M1/C1 and ran a Denon 103 Moving Coil Cartridge and really enjoyed it. I lost the cartridge in a move, but it's on the things I need to get when I win the lottery. I currently use a vintage Denon Integrated Amp, which has a MC preamp built in, but alas no Denon 103 cartridge. I am currently using a Grado Blue MM.
Thanks for introducing this option. Most reviewers ignore this. Would using a good but inexpensive phono preamp like the mani 2 be an even cheaper option. Have both a skoll and mani 2 and enjoy them
I'm using the ART Precision Phono Preamp, it supports both MM and MC cartridges, has adjustable gain and switchable rumble filter. It's also very affordable.
ART makes great stuff and gets no love on the YT. ive got the art dj preII and i think its great but ihavent compared it to anything else
It's certainly something to consider when I upgrade my cartridge. Thanks Ed.
Anytime my friend.
I prefer moving magnet carts, but Moving Coil carts are good too. I have both. The MC cart I have is a Denon DL110, which I paid less than $100 for some years ago and is still new in box. I have not mounted yet. I will someday. My phono preamp can handle anything. I just realized that the DL110 goes for $400 now, I think that is stupid and a sad note, but that has also happened to all my gear that is still made. All of it has increased in price 2.5X! I'm glad I got it when I did because I could not even dream of it now, but I also don't like that it has increased. That's just me.
Thanks for tuning in.
JUST confirm that the input impedance of the SUT is correct range for your MC cart. The Denon has two choices with a switch.
It was very close. I heard no issues.
Big fan of SUTs. I have an Ortofon Quintet Black S on my AR XA turntable and I run RCA from there to a Rothwell MCL step up transformer then to the phono input on my Plinius 8150. It's sublime!
One thing I would have liked to hear is a direct comparison between turntable->step-up->MM Phono stage vs turntable->MC phono stage. There are people who think that a step-up is just superior period to the MC option on phono stages so I would have appreciated your experience on this comparison.
The only MC preamp I have is a Cambridge Alva Duo and I thought this sounded better. Thx.
I think it was about a year ago Guttenberg did a video with a number of SUT's. IIRC on several he liked the SUT with a standard MM phono pre amp to a dedicated MM/MC pre amp. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct 👍
I enjoyed this one, Ed. Another lower cost option for an MC cartridge that is well regarded is the Denon 301 mk II. It comes in around $300 as well. I currently run it with an MC capable phono preamp (the wonderful iFi Zen Phono), but I’d be interested to try an SUT in MM mode for comparison. This is quite an interesting looking unit. Might just have to pick one up just to try it out.
i got a Denon used AU 320 from Japan for much less than any current production because I was in the dark whether it would pay off with the 301 or not make a difference. Yes, it sure did. With my specific MC MM compatible phono preamp.
Hana EL with Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+. Great sounding combo through Marantz 50.. It does extend beyond the capabilities of my Project Debut EVO turntable though.
Not sure why anyone would select an elliptical stylus when you could get Shibata or Microline? Elliptical Styli seem to collect dust and plastic particles as they are playing sometime impacting sound quality and consequently requiring cleaning after playing a couple of tracks. And yes I have cleaned my albums before playing them.
I don't have an unlimited budget. Sorry to disappoint you.
@@OldGuyHifi Time relative to interrupted listening = money and stress
My biggest regret in life is not using a step up transformer earlier.
I hope not. My biggest regret is that I never learned to play the zither.
I think the Schiit Mani 2 also supports Moving Coil cartridges. $150 US. Is it worth considering the Mani 2 if you want to try an MC cartridge, or is this product you are demonstrating a higher quality?
Schit Manie. What a grate name.
A lot depends on the MM pre you connect to. With my EVO's pre, yes it sounds better.
Great review Ed, how about the Cambridge Audio Alva Duo? is better to have an independent MC preamp, and a MC one? or this for about $350 could help?
I have an Alva Duo and found the MM side fine but I was a bit disappointed in the MC side. Could just be a miss match with my AT cart. I do know the EVO has the same MM pre as the Alva and with the SUT is is really good. Thx for asking and watching.
@OldGuyHifi thank you for your reviews and for taking the time to keep the conversation going.
greetings from Colombia.
@ Thank you for watching.
Cartridge loading?????
Thx for tuning in.
With the SUT on my preamp in the MM gain setting it is 47k and no capacitance added like you have to for some MM carts. The Denon transformer 40 ohm primary is a good match with my Denon cart. They also have a position for some very low impedance MC cartridges but I am thinking that is unusual these days.
One question Ed. I noticed on the website for NC25-C Step Up Transformer, the bandwidth is listed as 35 Hz-6KHz. Is that correct? Did you notice anything different or strange in terms of the frequency response? Cheers. Just curious. That was the only thing that prevented me from purchasing this unit previously.
It is a typo. I confirmed with the mfr. They are going to fix the error.
@@OldGuyHifi
Thank you. I am buying it. 🙏🏼
Incidentally, I also have the AT- 540ML with the mounted headshell. Damn, it’s a good cartridge. Agreed!
The 2M Black LVB now fluctuates between $1k and $1.1k. While I generally agree with you about MC vs MM the better MM have a better cut diamond and usually a boron cantilever. The lower end MC are usually elliptical wih aluminum. Those better MM usually sound better as a result. But, like you said, a SUT is an easy way to get into MC without having to buy an entirely new phono preamp and the SUT will generally sound better until you get into higher end MC capabile phono preamps.
Not necessarily. I have a Denon DL-103R and it sounds really good. You can get an Audio-Technica AT33SA Dual Moving Coil Phono Cartridge that should be better than almost all MM cartridges. It’s got a boron cantilever with a shibata cut diamond. Hard to beat at $800
@rmzidann exactly, that's my point. That 33SA is a bargain!
@@bgroovin1343… agreed. Sorry I misinterpreted your initial comment. 😂🙏🏼
Yes… MC → SUT → MM-Phono-Stage verses MC → MC-Phono-Stage degenerates into a debate not unsimilar to the solid-state verses tube debate. Some folks are in one camp, some the other. The middle of last year, Steve Gutenberg, Audiophiliac, did an episode reviewing a number of SUTs. Notably, as a longtime MC-Phono-Stage user, he flip-flopped and is now a proponent of SUTs.
As always my friend you are again, the voice of reason and wisdom. Thank you.
Nothing new here this was common in the 1970's and it is not the best way to go. You are far better off having a seperate additional preamp circuit or stage before the final phono stage. The problem with step up transformers is the exact same limitations that you find in all audio transformers like what we see in tube amps. It is almost funny because people think the sound of a tube amp is mostly down to the tubes but in reality it is mostly down to the audio output transformers that must be used with 99.8% of tube amp designs. All phonostages that have MC ability either add in an aditional solid state amplifications stage or they add in step up transformer when you hit the switch to go from MM to MC. Anyways the "tube" sound is mostly do to the characteristics of audio transfromers. While upgrading transformers can be done it is not the cheap and easy peasy procedure like tube rolling is!
@@buckaroobonsi555 I beg to disagree. SUT's sound great and are very quiet. An output transformer is critical to the sound of a tube amp but it's not what makes the typical tube sound. That is made by the tube itself which is a more linear amplification device than a transistor and requires much fewer circuit components to make a complete amp. Simplicity = transparency.
One more thing for me to worry about. 😂
Thx for tuning in and sharing.