Canon C-Log vs C-Log 3 | Which One Should You Use?
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Hello everyone!
Since I haven't been able to find videos explaining and showing the exact difference between C-Log and HDR profiles with examples I decided to do a video myself.
I've seen that everybody recommends using always C-Log 3, but I have encountered lots of noise when using this profile... On the other side C-Log 1 has given me better noise but also less dynamic range... And how about HDR?
Well in this video you will find all the answers to these questions as well as examples shot on each profile.
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Chapters:
▻ Intro - 00:00:00
▻ C-Log VS C-Log3 Example 1 - 00:03:39
▻ Example 2 - 00:10:39
▻ Example 3 - 00:12:58
▻ Example 4 - 00:14:50
▻ Example 5 - 00:17:58
▻ Example 6 - 00:19:33
▻ Example 7 - 00:20:52
▻ Final conclusions - 00:21:38
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Thanks a lot for taking the time to make this video! Very useful information for me.
I keep coming back to this video. Excellent explanation of when not to use CLOG3. I kept getting tons of noise in my footage in underexposed situations. This has helped alot, I’m grateful, thank you.
Excellent video. Thanks for that explanation.
Great and much needed video, thanks.
Thanks! This helped me a lot. I had an issue shooting a wedding and I gotta lot of noise in my blacks.
This was really helpful! Thank you
Awesome test and observations! You should consider selling the LUT you used at the end on your sample footage…beautiful clean LUT would love to test it
Good video! In my opinion - c-log is more universal, easy in color correction and grade. I shoot in c-log))) C-log3 for the perfect situation.
Hey Thanks a lot!! Quick question: Is the "C-Log3" that comes out of the EOS-R cameras the same as the "Canon Cinema CLog3" from the canon cinema cameras?
The gamma profile is the same yes. The difference would be in the sensors and dynamic range.
I noticed the noise the first time I used the CLOG 3 footage - I actually indeed try to overexpose a bit. If it is really noisy to the point I can't deal with it I use a software (NeatVideo) for noise reduction which does a pretty good job if not applied too extensively
clog3 is mapping the stops differently and it isn't so much the ISO 800 that impacts the noise level. clog3 also keeps more of the noise vs clipping the noise floor. While this may display more noise in the video it gives more detail to pull out with noise reduction in post.
When I say how the stops are mapped clog3 is similar to how the BMD pocket cameras work. You can choose how you want to distribute those stops below and above middle gray. ISO 800 puts more stops above middle gray to retain highlight detail. By doing so it sacrifices the stops below middle gray which mean the shadows have more noise. ISO 800 with clog3 is similar to the Pockets cameras at ISO 800 or ISO 1000. Great highlight detail but really visible shadow noise. The Pockets at ISO 400 shift a stop fro the highs to the lows so the shadows look much nicer at the expense of the highs clipping a stop sooner. ISO 200 on the Pockets shift another stop from the highs to the lows.
Clog2 cannot do that by changing ISO but it can do that by shooting over. Shooting a stop over essentially shifts a stop fro the highs to the lows. Just like ISO 400 on the Pocket cameras. Shooting two stops over middle gray shifts two stops fro the highs to the lows essentially making it like the Pockets shooting ISO 200 with super clean shadows. With clog3 we have to manually shift the exposure back down but it's essentially the same thing.
If you want the cleaner noise floor of clog1 ISO400 then you shoot clog3 at one stop over middle gray. The highlights will clip sooner like they do on clog1 but the shadows will also be cleaner with more detail. No need for clog1 and dealing with two totally different grading methods. Two stops over will have crazy shadow detail with clog3. when you have shots with very little high specular it makes sense to use clog3 two stops over and help map more of the 12 stops below middle gray. When you need to preserve more specular and highlight detail choose to shoot right at middle gray and not worry about shadows that may not even be in the shot or will not matter.
A little noise reduction goes a long way as well to help clog3. All video has noise reduction unless it's raw. It's either done in camera crudely and quickly while it records or done in post where it can take a bit longer but do it better. As time consuming as noise reduction is it is why clog3 keeps more of the noise floor. So more details can be pulled out than what clog1 could ever manage.
The reason why the R6 mk2 no longer includes clog1 is because by utilizing clog3 by remapping the stops there is no reason to have clog1 anymore. Clog3 is more flexible and a consistent profile to make use of as the environment and scene require. Clog3 starts at ISO800 to provide the max highlight detail possible and fro their shoot over. Canon has always had an emphasis on shooting over for log and just the nature of how the sensors are designed. Knowing this the clog3 format can be better utilized to fit the situation. It's not a one size fits all log format. Its designed to use it to adjust to different shots.
Great explanation! Thanks! I still think that having C-Log 1 to shoot in low light would be good, but maybe I'm wrong. Also if we want to shoot in 10 bits we are stuck with C-Log 3 and HDR PQ in the R6 II which doesn't make any sense.
@@paulomateus3083 it kind of does make sense. 10bit always had more benefit for pushing color values. Especially with log curves where the end’s exponentially hold more values packed into a smaller space. Standard profiles really don’t need 10bit as much.
HDR PQ is a log like curve. Just happens to be an industry standard across all TVs and devices. Because it’s a log curve packing a lot of data into a small space 10bit makes sense.
Clog1 was designed for 8bit cameras. Because 8bit cameras couldn’t translate the same range clog1 was optimized to work well. That’s why it has a limited dynamic range.
Clog2 was the high end log format to take advantage of cinema sensors with 14bit processing and over 14 stops of range.
Clog3 was designed as a good in between log format that could do more with 10bit formats. It’s also a lot easier to use than clog2.
I shoot both clog3 and HDR PQ on my R6 both intended for HDR PQ projects. That high contrast of HDR PQ is the nature of HDR. The curve is very different from rec709 and designed to keep values going past 100 nits. It doesn’t just cut off or the curve doesn’t bend in a s shape to roll off more values into a 7 stop SDR rec709 range. It’s deIgned to go up to 10,000 nits. Because the curve is different any values about two stops under middle gray are already curved differently than rec709. That’s why middle gray and skin tones can have more contrast and punch to them. It’s make makes HDR more lifelike and vibrant. Real life doesn’t have flat muted colors. HDR is designed to make video look more like what we see with our eyes.
Clog3 converted perfectly to HDR PQ will look identical to the HDR PQ shot in camera on the R6. Except instead of topping off at 530 nits it can go up to 4000 nits. Color and any values 530 nits and below look identical.
Just something to keep in mind. It’s not the camera that makes the HDR look vibrant, punchy and contrasty. It’s the standard and any camera will likely look the same delivering HDR PQ. Just the nature of HDR. We are so used to fudging the s curve on SDR to cram as much as possible under 100nits. HDR PQ is really a great format however. It’s likely the future of video. It’s what we always wanted really. A normal real life look that could see up to 16 stops of range. Some prefer the flatter look and that’s fine but flat and HDR don’t exactly fit together. The whole point of HDR is realistic contrast but not being limited in what can be seen. Instead of a flat roll off of the highlights up to 100 nits it just keeps going forever. Well to 10,000 which is an insane amount. I already find 1600 nits insanely bright. I have my MBP XDR set to a sustained constant 1000 nits and it’s awesome.
@@digitaldevigner4080 many thanks for sharing all that knowledge! I'm not a big fan of shooting in HDR PQ because how much contrast and saturation that is baked in the footage with little room for color grading.
@@paulomateus3083 agreed it is a contrasty look. That’s more the nature of HDR PQ however. As we get more into HDR delivery that’s kind of the reality of it. You can’t have flat and HDR at the same time.
@@paulomateus3083 the noise does suck on clog3. I no longer like to mess with shooting over so I now just use NeatVideo on everything. Pretty much makes clog3 what we all hoped it could be.
I will be upgrading to the R6 mk2 soon so I can record 6k raw to my Ninja V. 6k with even finer noise grain should work really well with NeatVideo and then scale down to 4K. Should retain more fine detail that way.
As much as the time needed sucks I guess this is just my reality for now until Canon figures out a way to make a DSLR camera that can handle better video dynamic range.
For rec709 if you do want to shoot over check out Todd Dominey’s exposure correction luts. He created a series of luts in 1/3 stop increments for shooting under or over. These do not work for me for HDR but if you shoot 2 stops over they instantly compensate for that and should greatly clean up noise.
Awesome Video! Thanks.
Thanks for this video man
Thanks a lot, it helped wery mutch.
I feel like you should overexpose the c log 3 more than c log 1 and then turn that exposure down in post to get a better signal to noise ratio in the end. I shoot a lot of real estate interiors and I’m able to shoot a really bright image in camera and then grade it to a nice look without much noise when I turn the exposure down in post.
Clog 3 loves over exposure, as much as is possible without clipping, even 3200 iso lools better than 800 when brought down to match, in many many cases.
very good video! I always hear you need to over expose while using clog3, do you also need to do that while using clog1 ?
I tend to over expose a little bit when Im shooting in C-Log3. But before doing that check your zebras, they are pretty helpful in order to avoid clipping!
Can you make please on the difference between Clog1 Clog3 and Cinestyle Using the R6???
Hey, Dude! Nice video! By the way... do you have some C-Log 3 sample to share? 10 secs or less! Just for LUT tests. Thanks!
Hey man! Ofc drop your email and I'll send you some stuff!
Good video and nice beach
Best video EVER!!!
Thank you so much for your video, you did a really really good test and explained everything! 👍
Thanks! Always happy to help the community!
Great Test, now i can stop stressing on getting Clog3......for now. 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Thank you
Great video! The crazy thing is that Canon has removed Clog1 from the R6 Mark II so you no longer have a choice. Also, I was wondering what colour profile you use for Clog3? This is rarely ever mentioned but the Cinema Gamut apparently is best for dynamic range.
It's weird that Clog2 isn't an option at all for the mirrorless cams. Sony has Slog2 as options even for the A7IV, and yet the R6 Mark II sensor has slightly more dynamic range and lower noise (and way less rolling shutter) than the A7IV sensor as I've tested both when it comes to raw photos.
Damn Canon cripple hammer strikes again. Serous. No c-log?
I also have r6 mk2 and it's a shame you can't get clog 1 since I would choose between the two based on the scene I'm shooting.
What would happen if you use clog off?
Then you use regular profiles. @@royaltykidstv
please can someone share this clog with me. i have tried to find it everywhere to install in my 5D AMRK IV, please
I use the R6 and C-Log 3 does look better in Davinci Resolve
I've always used clog3 since day one because the internet said it is better. But never liked how my grading looked compared to what I see on youtube. Tried clog about two weeks ago and now I am never going back to clog3.
You’ll see that clog3 overall and with perfect light conditions is actually better + more dynamic range! But I agree with you!
Thanks for the video BUT why didn’t you apply the color space transform? All of these camera companies design the LOG profiles AND the CST’s that go with them. Take those videos you shot and apply the Canon Log 1 and Log 3 accordingly. You’ll see the difference. The intent of shooting LOG isn’t to guess on how to color grade afterwards. You must apply the CST as the last node then make adjustments using the nodes before it. You should see the magic happen there.
Hey Mauri! What are your Zebras 1 & 2 set to?
95%!
Hey man nice video i have the R6 also and i use C-Log 3 and i don't have noise because i over expose more than if i use C-Log :)
I guess that is a good solution! I feel it's hard for me to over expose... I'm always scared of clipping whites!
@@MaurideHaro yeah me too but i rely on zebras, as soon as i see 95% zebras appear i stop there, for faces i set them at 80+-5% and i dont use the view assist, i leave it off cause it will look like everything is too overexposed
Niceee
@@YoussefHallouly god damn 95 and 80 :))) i use 55 +-5 for face, skin and 80-85 to protect clips
95? srsly, so you darken it in post and save highlight?
@@Promikes Yes hihi, i might make a video on my channel to show you how i do that, i just bring the shadows down in post and then voilà! I think that if i use anything below 80+-5 for skin tones i have to raise the shadows and highlight in post, introducing noise.
Great Class
I have noticed that Clog is just better with low light shots and doesn’t show any grain. Clog3 is much better in daylight shots on highlights. Unfortunately the R5 and R6 have crappy dynamic range. Doesn’t even compare to my Sony A7SIII. I can pull down the highlights on the Sony and recover the highlights which I can’t do with my R5. It’s really disappointing because the R5 is such an amazing camera with photography and video. Hopefully the R5II will fix this. If not I am going to switch to the R5C since it can get 13 stops according to Gerald Undone. Then have to deal with the battery issue. Now that switching between photo and video on the R5C is down to 3 seconds should be worth it.
fx3
@@caseybachmeyer same camera
@@heynow2880 i know...beautiful dynamic range
Your exposure between the different shots is not consistent.
Great content, i recently did a video in NYC "raining ambient" when i was shooting in clog 3 at iso 400 most of the time and the footage came out really good in my opinion. Check it out and let me know what you think.