Skyrim: How the Season Unending Negotiation works
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- Опубліковано 18 лип 2020
- Precise, in-depth video showing exactly how the Season Unending negotiation works, including how it is affected by the progress of the Civil War questline. All possible options, remarks based on options chosen, under what conditions remarks are made, e.t.c..
In brief, many of the factors affecting how the negotiations proceed depend on a “scale” that gets maintained, and points are added to either side of this scale when the Dragonborn makes various decisions. Whenever points get added to this scale, I show a number on the side of the video, the left side when the points are added to the Imperials' side of the scale (as they sit on the left side of the table), and the right side when the points are added to the Stormcloaks' side of the scale.
This gets more complicated if significant progress has been made in the Civil War. If Riften/Markarth has been taken, then the side winning in the war will start out with 1 additional point on their side of the scale. If all Holds bar Windhelm/Solitude have been taken, then the winning side starts ahead by 2 points. However, certain events don’t take this “starting offset” into account, and instead depend on how many points the Dragonborn has given to a side, rather than the current state of the scale.
It is possible to start the Season Unending negotiation when one side only has their base Hold left (Windhelm/Solitude), though it requires some careful timing with quest progression. I’ve uploaded a separate video guide showing how to do this, with a written explanation in the description - ‹// • Skyrim: How to start S... ›.
For those interested in learning more about how the negotiation works, there’s a guide I have on GameFAQs on the subject, though parts of it aren’t an easy read (I need to update it sometime). I’ve also uncovered a few additional things while making this video, that aren’t mentioned in that guide. - Ігри
I sometimes wish there was an option to just brute-force the negotiation if you're a high enough level, like "Stop the war or I'll stop it myself." kind of thing.
ikr
But make it really hard to obtain like, maybe even bring up certain achievements you have gotten, champions of various daedra and aedra, guild masters etc.
Or you could say threaten to join the other side if you are neutral. "If either of you dont just stop, I join the other guys side and kick your ass"
Or threaten to kill everyone in the room if they don’t come to some kind of agreement.
I kinda dig that, in fact I dig all ideas in this comment section, god imagine if Skyrim had New Vegas’ or Detroit’s level of choices
Can we take a moment to truly appreciate Ulfric and Tullius's voice actors? They're so goddamn incredible
"Winterhold goes to the Imperials."
Tullius: :D
"But the College of Winterhold will remain neutral."
Tullius: :(
lmao xD
Underrated video. After years of playing Skyrim, I’ve never seen all the choices in the negotiation.
Same. Makes me want to go back and restart just to experience it all.
That last bit, Sheogorath approves......
Greybeards rock. Just saying...
Elenwen sitting there knowing she's helping to prolong the war.
Gotta admit, Arngeir is really putting his training to use, patiently listening to everyone argue. This video also answers a question I've had, which how do you negotiate if one side has nothing to barter with lol It's also cool how in depth the negotiations are, despite people claiming it's the most boring part of the game.
Tell whatever you want but 36:54 is canon ending for me
Tbh most realistic ending
ngl I laughed out loud at this part
This triggered so many memories wishing that the Dragonborn could just tell them to stop whinging and listen.
"We would never interfer in your civil war"
Despite the fact you not only started it in the first place but also had plans to let ulfric go at helgen at the start in order for tbe civil war to continue.
She used a ancient and subtle technique known as... lying
The problem is not the Thalmor being present at the meeting. Although being an unjustified provocation, that's not the main problem here.
What's unforgivable is that, regardless of flags, Elenwen is literally the individual who personally tortured Ulfric. How is that remotely ok.
because they are secretly in love
They are even. Ulfric got his freedom and his crown and Thalmor got the secession they wanted. He can’t say anything about the torture, not even a word because everyone would start questioning why in Oblivion was Ulfric set free. Elenwen can’t say anything either cause that would reveal that they were orchestrating the secession and thus prompt the next war right away.
@@cacharadon7460 I see you know the deep lore
I like how the companions stand to your sides like bodyguards
There are exactly 2 functioning adults present during this meeting. A third is on the fence, depending on the person behind the screen.
The Dragonborn, Arngier and the player if they are neutral in terms of imperials and stormcloaks I think
😂
Esbern and Arngier?
19:50 Ulfric's "shut up," is so unbelieavably satisfying. XD
I love how you have a kajiiti encourage.
Hell I’d join the Stormcloaks just to hear that “SHUT UP!” line! XD
" And she's supposed to be on our side?" 😂Gets me every time
If you read the dossiers in the thalmor embassy you’ll learn they are most interested in weakening both sides through an undecided war, so the legate has a point.
if i was Ulfric, i would've said "no... YOU'RE on her side, otherwise you wouldn't have signed your so called 'peace treaty' with them and brought her here to supervise us all." honestly, Ulfric, Galmar, and the rest of the Stormcloaks are right too when they say things like the imperials have become lapdogs to their Thalmor masters, truly sad and denigrating.
@@car6697 Ok, tough guy. You don't win wars by being bullheaded.
Such a shame there is no option to smack the table and tell them to sit down and shut up while I deal with actual problems. Petty jarls fighting over who gets what while the world is literally ending.
Yes, but the Dragonborn's personality is that of a stable minded character. Not one to give into fits of outbursts so brashly.
@@SrChr778 [Intimidation]
Nah, a few cocky remarks is fine giving into emotion like that isn't in character for any race but an ork dragon born, maybe.
I wish there was an option to murder everyone at the table. Then the civil war would be done and over with just fine.
When negotiating, what you should really be considering is whether your decision will lead to Ondolemar's death or not.
that's the only true terms of success.
A good reason to give Markarth to the stormcloaks
That’s usually my second order of business in Markarth. I blatantly walk in and murder him .
I didn't mind the Thalmor being there... before I learned what the Thalmor try to do. Since then I kill Thalmor with extreme prejudice.
This is the most Confusing Quest ever. if only i can tell the Aldmeri dominion is the True enemy
They know. they can't do anything bout it.
If only there was a mod to provide a third side:
The Dragon Empire.
Argeirn: "i hope we all came here to-"
Ulfric Stormcoconut: *No*
All of them are so petty and pissy I didn’t even realize I got the neutral balanced ending, it’s so hard to pick I side that I just join the “fuck both your factions” faction
Hehe, I get the reference
Crazy to think that even the slightest decisions you’ve made can have significant alterations to the conversation. Great job, bro! You’ve created a fantastic video. I’ve been playing Skyrim again nonstop and this only keeps fueling my thirst for such an awesome game. Much love!
I died from laughter. Two Khajiits. And the ending: it's like a video on the epic fight in a parliament.
i find it strange that this negotiations don't consider race. Ulfric would refuse to listen to an argonian, an elf or even an orc. Elewen would demand loyalty from an elf, specially an altmer. tulius would expect more form an imperial.
But they all recognize the player as the Dragonborn and why this council is happening and that that supersedes their normal biases and such.
Elewen would be weird, but I don't feel like Ulfric or Tulius would. Neither of them seem like they care about race.
In Tullius' eyes you're just part of the empire, and in Ulfric's you're a foreigner and the Dragonborn regardless of your race.
But everyone loves cats
Ulfric will let you join the Stormcloaks regardless of race, even before you learn of being Dragonborn. He’s actually not nearly as racist as many of his nord Brethren, despite the conditions of the Dunmer in his city.
I only played “Stormcloak” once, but I joined as a High Elf, possibly the worst race to join the Stormcloaks as.
If Ulfric were half as racist as people make him out to be there wouldn't even be elves in his city, let alone Altmer business owners.
Quite a spectacular ending.
what is awesome here, is that it is the best acting in the entire game
He actually keeps my followers, I play as a Khajiit character, have Inigo and Kharjo with me. Like a Khajiit trio
This must have been a hell of a lot of work to put together! Thanks for posting it
Wish there was an option to hand Ulfric his Thalmor Dossier file, maybe that would have knocked some sense into him
I want to see Tony Soprano doing it. 'Hello, rat☺️'
@@sarmatiancougar7556 Thalmor Embassy to Ulfric: “Now go get your shine box.”
man if the game was lore accurate the dragonborn could end the civil war with a shout
"Are we going to let Ulfric dictate terms to us before the negotiations even start-"
"No no, he has a point."
I figured it out on my first playthrough.
1) Elenwyn can stay, after all no real harm in that.
2) Persuade Tullius for a fair trade of Markarth for either Dawnstar or Winterhold (whichever shows up in dialogue)
3) Agree that Ulfric must compensate for the massacre at Karthwasten.
That's about as even-handed as you can get.
(and FYI, Ulfric has done a pretty good job of hiding what he *really* did at Markarth.
Let's just say that unlike Ulfric, General Tullius doesn't put innocent civilians to the sword.)
I feel obliged to point out (before everyone else does), that Tullius did put the Dragonborn to the sword at the start of the game! Albeit by proxy. Interesting, though; I didn't know there were some underhanded goings on during The Markarth Incident
Lokir and the Dragonborn would love to have a word with you.
There's no reason to have the thalmor there unless you play the odd character who supports them. Best to keep them in the dark on anything related to their gaslit war. No reason for ulfric to pay for karthwasten either. He isnt going to be neutral with the empire if the civil war continues or he wins, and youre just gonna kill him either way on the imperial side
@@milesq7689 except that was a simply a misunderstanding from a captain (idr her name, but you probably know)
Tullius had no idea if you (the player/dragonborn) was innocent, he probably just assumed you were a stormcloak too since the ignorant captain approved it even when you weren't on the list
And to be fair, tullius was way too busy trying to execute ulfric as fast as possible before the thalmor or the stormcloaks rescue him, unfortunately for him, alduin unintentionally saved ulfric
@@milesq7689 That wasn't really tullius though, it was just some unnamed imperial captain why decided to ignore the list.
my tiny brain can't comprehend this
😁
Me too …hence you YOLO it 😅😂😂 (do whatever fits into your roleplay)
Last part... "NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BROKEN DOWN!!!"
Rikke was only there for the 1 liners
"We've decided to allow this violation of your butt"
Fantastic video, exactly what I needed to plan my future playthroughs, and really cool to see broken down in every way. Nicely done
I have played over 1000 hours of skyrim and haven't known about this quest line. I need to lay of the skooma
That ending made it worth watching do much more so. Make the leaders fight to the death.
Here's the neutral ending for this negotiation: Keep Elenwen. Let the Empire have the Rift while the Stormcloaks get Markarth. Let the Stormcloaks have Morthal. No one will really walk away happy, but less conflict will occur during the negotiations if you choose these options when you're faced with them.
Alternatively, one can kick Elenwen out, Markarth for Riften, and agree that Ulfric compensate for the massacre at Karthwasten.
This really highlight the "sports team" feel that the Skyrim's civil war has...
Now I feel silly for trying to be fair/neutral/diplomatic.
I really love that ending part
You must have put a lot of effort here, yet there is not much views. I watched it whole though, it was really helpful. Especially the end, nice work lad.
Thanks for this video. Because I always complete the Civil War questline BEFORE even going to retrieve the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller in Ustengrav, I have never seen this part of the questline before. Doesn’t help that the Windhelm home Hjerim is my all time favorite and the only way to get it is by completing the Civil War questline from start to finish. So now I don’t have to “disrupt my routine” just to see what this quest is like. That’s why I love UA-cam
19:55
Lmao
I absolutely love how this feels like it's written to make the true faction leaders seem like the most unbearable people ever
So in depth, yet so few views. Loved your video!
wasn't there a dialogue where a Greybeard from the corner shake the room to bring order to the arguments?
Notice how Tullius is seated every time while Ulfric and Galmar rise and prepare to *Storm* out like a bratty child😂😂God, I love this game.
i'd threaten to storm out too if the empire tried to execute me and an innocent without a fair trial the last time we spoke. And thanks to him, Elenwen can get kicked out
Love your khajiit bodyguards inigo and khajro
Great job on spending your time doing this ! 🙃
Are you sure that the Stormcloaks can only demand Mortal if you side with them? According to UESP, if you are neutral then Ulfric can demand either Falkreath or Morthal
You mean at 21:40? It could be random I suppose, though in all my playthroughs and tests they've always demanded Falkreath as the concession if the Civil War questline hasn't been started.
Similarly, at 24:49 the Minor Hold the Imperials demand could be random, though in my experiments it's only changed to the Pale/Dawnstar if near the end of the Civil War questline.
One thing unchecked. What if you already assassinated the emperor with the dark brotherhood, regardless of which side in the war you picked. Hmmmm
I did this counsel meeting quest before i took any ground on Skyrim. Surprised there were soo many possible dialogue options! :O
Jarl Ulfric, Storm of Windhelm.
New skyrim player and I dunno wtf I was doing, I was neutral as I haven't joined either Stormcloaks or Imperials yet. I gave Riften to the Imperials and Markarth to the Stormcloaks. I have no idea if that's good or bad
I tried to be neutral by giving empire Rift and Stormcloacks the Markarth.
Still they said I wasn't fair...
How did I give Empire more points?
If Major Holds (Riften & Markarth) are exchanged in the first phase of the negotiation, the deal will always end up favoring one side by the end of the first phase (assuming the Dragonborn hasn't joined a side in the Civil War). It's because the decision on whether Elenwen stays or leaves also counts. So if both Major Holds are exchanged, the deal will favor whoever the Elenwen decision favored.
The only way to have the deal fair at the end of the first phase (again assuming the Dragonborn hasn't joined a side in the Civil War, which complicates things quite a bit), is to allow Elenwen to stay, and exchange a Minor Hold (Dawnstar or Winterhold) in exchange for Markarth.
Having the deal fair this early can make it tricky to reach a fair deal after the second phase at the end of the negotiation though
@@milesq7689 Thanks, I did allow Elenwen to stay, not realizing I was favoring one. That helped
Thank you so much for this
What I got from this Is trade the minor holds for both sides to be happy-ish
Really great video. I see there was a lot of work put into this.
Bruh that ending tho
What is the best route for a completely neutral Dragomborn who has not picked a side in order to allow both parties to walk away somewhat satisfied? I’m looking for the most neutral path possible.
This is the technique that I eventually came up with:
- Allow the Thalmor to stay (+1 Imperials)
- Give a Minor Hold (Dawnstar or Winterhold) in exchange for Markarth (+2 Stormcloaks, +1 Imperials)
- This will end the first half of the negotiation with things fair (2-2)
- When the Imperials request compensation for the Karthwasten massacre, deny it (+1 Stormcloaks)
- When the Imperials request a Minor Hold (Winterhold or Dawnstar), grant it (+1 Imperials)
- This ends the second half of the negotiation with things fair (3-3)
This method not only ends things fairly, but has things balanced at the halfway point of the negotiation as well, and the Imperials will lament as such. There's numerous other ways to end the negotiation fairly, exchanging different Holds, but I believe this is the only way to also have things fair at the halfway point.
Off topic but is anyone watching with subtitles? The miss translation is hilarious
The ending is great 😂
Lol never heard balgruuf chime in at true high king Ulfric Stormchad's reasonable and levelled request to have elenwen removed before. Good stuff
Aye 🐻💪🏼💙❄️🏔️
Finally a true son of Skyrim.
Thanks for answering everyone's questions in the comments, really nice of you. I'm back to this video with one - how do I join the Stormcloaks but also have Balgruuf at this council instead of Vignar? Like at 8:25 . Because I thought I read online that you couldn't start Season Unending while the Jagged Crown or Message to Whiterun is active, but those directly follow Joining the Stormcloaks? Would I like, kill the ice wraith to join, but then not talk to Galmar afterwards? Or do the Jagged Crown, but not deliver the axe to Whiterun?
Huh… Well I somehow managed that one pretty easily! I'd guess that it's possible to start it after being sworn in to the Stormcloaks, when you say The Jagged Crown starts. I can certainly imagine things disabling once Message To Whiterun starts, though I would've thought things would be fine before that point. I'm pretty sure that being sworn-in is necessary to be considered properly sided with one of them, which means returning to Galmar after doing the Ice Wraith job. It may also be possible to start Season Unending before joining a side, join the Stormcloaks, then continue Season Unending.
I don't remember having any quest timing issues with it though; it should be easy to pull off. If unsure, best save before fighting Alduin for the first time (which is just before Season Unending if I remember rightly), and/or before returning to Galmar to join.
That MAYHEM 😂😂😂😂😂
Is it possible to do a combination between missions, this meeting etc. To have Riften, falkreath, stormcloak and the rest empire? Skipping Windhelm obviously.
I tried being as neutral as I feeled... I was like, "fuck this war man!"
Pd. I really liked that ending xD
This time in my playthrough, Ulfric gets it before Alduin. -I hate this part more than Markarth and the Dark Brotherhood quest combined... Thanks for sharing.
But, how do you get a balanced decision if you didn't join a side. If you didn't join a side, it always ends up as a +1/+2 or a +2/+1. Does it have something to do with whether Elwen stays?
The way I usually do it is…
- Elenwen stays, Imperials 1-0 Stormcloaks
- Give Imperials Minor Hold in exchange for Markarth (Dawnstar/Winterhold, not Riften), 2-2
- Imperials should start demanding extra stuff
- Deny Karthwasten Massacre compensation, 2-3
- Grant a second Minor Hold (will be Winterhold or Dawnstar), 3-3
This also makes the decision fair when Phase 1 of the negotiation ends, as well as the final result.
Can also do the following, which results in less Holds changing sides…
- Elenwen leaves, Imperials 0-1 Stormcloaks
- Give Imperials Riften in exchange for Markarth, 2-3
- Imperials will start demanding extra stuff
- Grant Karthwasten Massacre compensation, 3-3
@@milesq7689 thank you. This helps
@@milesq7689 Are there any repercussions if she leaves the meeting other than it affecting the dialogue?
@@NephiLoWaterGodXVII If she's permitted to stay, it gives 1 point in favor of the Imperials, and if she's told to leave, it gives 1 point in favor of the Stormcloaks, so it's an important decision that will affect the outcome of the negotiation.
Though when it all comes down to it, I think the only repercussions of decisions made apart from dialog during and immediately after the quest, are the Holds that change sides (and the repercussions naturally following on from that, such as Ondolemar's death as a few have pointed out), and if the Dragonborn has chosen a side in the Civil War, whether or not they get a reward.
@@milesq7689 So if you are neutral one side will always be unhappy? I'm confused because I have done the second option you wrote and Tulius always acts like I'm favoring the storm cloaks. Is there a way to make both sides happy and neither say you are favoring one side?
I always take Markarth for the imperials and give them compensation for the massacre, but hand over riften. Or something along those lines. Tullius gets disappointed but naturally you just win it back so
I love rikke’s comments 😭 she’s so sassy
She's the most reasonable character but due to her rank, it's impossible to be as bold as Ulfric is.
What are ways to avoid giving major hold as imperials in negotiations or is it automatic?
One side will (almost) always get a Major Hold automatically, in the first part of the negotiation.
The only way to avoid this is to play through the civil war questline until one side has no Holds left bar their capitol, then start this quest; it will be possible to complete it without any Holds changing side.
So I’m assuming it’s impossible for the Empire to trade the Reach & Falkreath for the Pale & Winterhold? I just want as many as the best Jarls in power as possible. Both of Riften’s options are bad for different reasons so that’s a hold that could go either way for me, whatever I gotta do to get a deal done.
Not just via the Season Unending negotiation, no - At most three Holds can exchange sides there; the Opening Demand, the Counter Demand, and one Concession. However I believe this is possible, but requires starting the Civil War questline. Here's the theory:
Remain neutral, and proceed to the Season Unending negotiation. Have Elenwen leave, so that the Imperials later go into concessions. The Stormcloaks will demand the Reach/Markarth. For that, exchange the Pale/Dawnstar. The Imperials will go into concessions, and start by demanding compensation for the Karthwasten massacre. I don't think it matters if this is granted or not; the Imperials should demand a second concession, which will be Winterhold. Up to this point, the Reach, the Pale, and Winterhold have exchanged sides. For the one remaining, Falkreath, join the Stormcloaks; the first Hold they take in the Civil War questline will be Falkreath.
For an alternative strategy where the Rift also exchanges sides, and joining the Imperials instead, remain neutral and proceed to the negotiation as before. Have Elenwen stay, so that the Stormcloaks later go into concessions. The Stormcloaks will demand the Reach/Markarth. For that, exchange the Rift/Riften. The Stormcloaks will go into concessions and should demand Falkreath. Up to this point, the Reach, the Rift, and Falkreath have exchanged sides. To get the Imperials their Holds, join them and progress through the Civil War questline; they'll first take the Pale, then skip the Rift since they already have it from the negotiation, and then take Winterhold.
I love how there is so much complexity here, but in the end it's just that annoying quest that nobody likes xD
How could we? We have to listen to this gaggle of children bickering over who gets which toys while the house is burning down around them.
I really have trouble wrapping my head around this quest - I am neutral as of now, but i wish to give as much holds as possible to the empire, and then join stormcloaks to reclaim them. Does anybody can help me with choosing the options in this quest?
The most Holds that can possibly be given to a side is 2 - one in the first part, and optionally another in the second part after Esbern's speech. Though the Hold given in the first part is exchanged, so the maximum net gain in Holds is just 1.
First step - Kick out the Thalmor. You'll want to get the empire to go into concessions and demand extra Holds, so you'll want to annoy them to begin with.
If Neutral, the Stormcloaks will always get Markarth, so the empire will always lose that Hold. The empire can be given Riften or a Minor Hold in return. At this point it won't matter which is chosen; the empire will complain and go into concessions.
After Esbern's speech, deny the empire's first request, which will be Karthwasten massacre compensation, then grant their second request, which will be for a Minor Hold. The end result will be the empire lost Markarth, but gained two other Holds.
Another thing you could do is start the civil war before this quest, and progress through until you've taken Markarth. Then start this quest. The empire will get Riften, and you should be able to give them one extra Minor Hold of the Stormcloaks'. This way, you won't miss out on the battle for Markarth.
@@milesq7689 Thank you, your explanation was very clear. Now i get it. Thanks!
What options do you think is very fair for both sides equally and balanced?
Hand over markrath and riften and send elenween to Brazil
Empire:
Let Elenwen stay.
Markarth for Riften
Stormcloaks need to pay for the massacre
Stormcloaks:
Make Elenwen walk.
Markath for Dawnstar.
Empire need to pay for the massacre,
EMpire must turn over Morthal(conditional)
Arngeir will tell you afterwards how well you did. The Morthal option will only appear if you first let Elenwen Stay and then let the Empire have Riften.
Personally, I'll never let the Empire have Riften because I can't bear to have Maven be Jarl, assassinating Jarls isn't pretty.
Side with imperial until the end
Markarth for riften
no compensation
elewen leaves
I feel the closest trade is markarth for riften. Its a source of commerce and close to the enemy capital. But its corrupt, and riddled with crime.
Markarth is a source of silver and is also close to the enemy capital. However it's under the constant threat of the forsworn.
Both of them have clear advantages and disadvantages. That being said I feel like the stormcloacks still get a better deal here, markarth would be hard to take. Surrounded by mountains, made of stone, and very wealthy indeed.
That's the closest deal I could see being made.
I'd say they have no room to negotiate at all. If they don't press pause on the war then both sides will lose to the World Eater. Shut up. Sit down. Twiddle your thumbs and let the adults tell you how the real world works. Also would have kicked that Thalmor bit out before Ulfric even opened his mouth. Then I could explain how stupid the war is. Religious persecution is absolutely a thing, but in this case, if you truly love Skyrim, people will and have found a way to persevere . The Empire isn't that serious about enforcing that law anyway, so put on a massive show. I understand "it's about the principal of these things" but this time, vain honor will end what you wish to protect most.
i agree with MOST of your comment, yeah Alduin's return is a much larger threat than Skyrim's civil war and even the Thalmor. because compared to the Thalmor that just want to wipe out all human races from existence eventually, unless they're prepared and the Dragonborn doesn't stop him, Alduin and his dragon army that he's been resurrecting will literally eat the whole world, and everyone in it, whether it be man, mer, or beast folk, hence his nickname. so yeah maybe both sides should at least try to put aside their differences just for a little while until the dragon crisis has been properly dealt with. but even after dealing with Alduin and his dragon army, and all of Nirn is saved thanks to the Dragonborn and the heroes of Sovngarde, and all the others that bravely stood up against him, you know Skyrim's civil war will resume, right? and yeah Ulfric is absolutely right to want Elenwen kicked out of this peace meeting, even imperial supporters agree with him on that, but religious persecution is also WRONG and should NEVER be allowed. yeah, Skyrim's people *can* persevere, especially if they're as brave, strong and proud as they claim to be, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD be religiously persecuted, no race should be, that's why i will ALWAYS truly support the side that favors freedom (especially religious freedom, privately AND publicly) and independence. "The Empire isn't that serious about enforcing that law anyways", dude are you kidding me? there's literally Thalmor AND imperial soldiers arresting and escorting Talos worshippers (to be interrogated, tortured, and killed JUST for believing in Talos most likely) out in the public roads of Skyrim. and if you side with the empire during the siege of Whiterun in the civil war, i'm pretty sure Heimskir (the priest of Talos open air preacher) gets thrown in jail in the aftermath. but if you side with the Stormcloaks, he's completely free to keep preaching out there right in front of the giant Talos idol. so i gotta totally disagree with you about the empire "not" taking the Talos worship ban that seriously. and "vain honor", have you heard Ulfric's speech about *why he fights* in the Palace of the Kings? He sounded truly honorable to me of what and who he's wanting to protect the most (his people and his home province/nation of Skyrim)
If the world worked like that then sure lol. But the nords are not like that, they will fight to their dying breath for their beliefs. They fought the hardest in the Great War for the empire to sell them out in the white gold Concordat. The empire got cold feet because they sat on their ass for 75 years while their allies got taken and the thalmor and got surprised when the silent nation suddenly attacked. The empire are fools and cowards. Now they have no allies left and if the rebels are destroyed in the name of the thalmor then they will be with no one. Like it or not ulfric is the only person who can open conversation with the red guards to fight the thalmor again, and at least with ulfric he won’t quit because his city was taken.
@@car6697 Airitin is right though: in the early days, the White Gold Concordant was barely enforced by the Empire. Everyone and their mothers was still worshipping Talos just fine. It's when the Thalmor started manipulating Ulfric and him making such a big deal of it that the Thalmor were able to twist the Empire's arm into letting them into Skyrim. The whole controversy was stirred up just to give them an excuse to start meddling in Skyrim's affairs. This entire war is just a setup by the Thalmor to weaken the Empire, and Ulfric is playing right into their hands. Honorable or not (which he isn't. He's neck deep in innocent blood), Ulfric is only making this situation worse. Religious persecution will be at the bottom of our list of woes if the Thalmor win the next war.
I side with the Imperials for the CW questline but I hate that Maven Black-Briar becomes Jarl if Riften is given to the Empire. I will allow the stormcloaks to keep Riften, but if I win the Civil War for the Imperials, will Maven still become in control of Riften as jarl? I hate the idea of her being jarl because she's associated with the theives' guild and she's practically a mob boss.
Yeah that would be the case unfortunately, hopefully if elder Scrolls 6 has a similar mechanic having the option to choose the new jarl ourselves would be nice
No matter how Riften comes into Imperial control, Maven will always become Jarl.
Even if maven isn't the jarl, riften still bows down to her. She's old and would probably die soon anyways. Ingun seems pretty nice and pure hearted, she might lead riften to a much better course into the future if she inherits being jarl which is possible due to the black briars being a matriarchal family.
It bothers me as well, but in all fairness it doesn't really change much. She was basically running the city until that point anyway, so only a Stormcloak victory would remove her from power. But even then, she'd still be manipulating things from behind the scenes
It's the same in reverse though. If Markarth is controlled by the Stormcloaks the Silver Bloods become Jarl, who are just as bad if not worse then Maven.
I wish the ending of this video could've been an actual mechanic in the game. Just imagine it.
How do I get ulfric to demand falkreath plz help
According to my notes Ulfric will demand Falkreath as the first concession providing the Dragonborn hasn't joined a side in the civil war. For this he needs to start demanding concessions to begin with, which means after the first half the Dragonborn must have favored the Imperials over the Stormcloaks. So, don't join a side, then start off the negotiations by favoring the Imperials (Elenwen stays, Imperials get Riften). Ulfric's next demand, after an interlude, should hopefully be Falkreath.
I have noticed a touch of randomness over whether he picks Falkreath or Morthal/Hjaalmarch at certain points in the negotiation, though.
The ten year anniversary should have one last dlc before we get into hammerfell
Any ideas on what that might be?
what are the best locations to cede to which side, strategically speaking?
I meaning technically speaking getting the entirety of Skyrim is the most strategic option.
Look on the map what is close to what
literally kept reloading a save to get the balanced truce I wanted : Started Neutral, Elenwen leaves, Stormcloaks get The Reach, Empire gets The Rift, and then Empire gets The Pale
but just about everyone else was unhappy, the balanced outcome is so grim....
btw, impressive bodyguards, is it a follower mod that allows you to have more than one?
It is indeed. There's a few Mods there, including the subtitles font one and the unofficial patch, though I tried to keep things reasonably vanilla. I think I had one of them wear the armor of the relevant side I was on, as well
Seems like the Empire gets the better of that outcome, especially if they took into account that Windhelm would find it very difficult to send troops to reinforce Markarth in the event of a siege. Unfortunately Tullius doesn't seem to realize they have Markarth surrounded, and Ulfric goofed hard by asking for it.
How do you do this as neutral? First time playing this i have to join one side for this to happen.
I think in unpatched versions of the game there's some kind of glitch that prevents inviting the warring sides without starting to join one of them, under certain conditions. Make sure the game's patched and try exiting from and restarting conversations with Tullius/Ulfric when trying to invite them to the council
Really? I've managed to avoid the Civil War entirely until Balgruuf asks me to broker the cease fire.
So how do we keep Riften under Stormcloak command?
If you've joined the Stormcloaks? You can't. Unless progressing the Civil War to right near the end, when the Imperials only have Solitude left, though it's tricky to get Season Unending started when the Civil War reaches that state.
You could also have Riften stay under Stormcloak control by completing the Civil War questline before reaching Season Unending, that way Season Unending is skipped entirely. Or complete Season Unending before joining the Stormcloaks.
@@milesq7689 Wow that is a lot more than I thought
how tf u got 3 followers? btw nice video and nice edit
Inigo and other mod followers let you have another follower.
to be honest, I understood here only before the dialogues if we are at the conclusion of the civil war(when they have everything on zero) and the rest did not understand. Would you show this in practice?
You mean how the "Opening Demand" points are calculated? If a side gains a Major Hold (Riften or Markarth), they get 2 points. If a side gains a Minor Hold (Falkreath, Hjaalmarch, Dawnstar, Winterhold), they get 1 point. No points are lost for losing Holds. So for example, if the Stormcloaks demand Markarth, and the Dragonborn gives the Imperials Dawnstar in return, the Stormcloaks will get 2 points, the Imperials 1 point.
@@milesq7689 I'm from Russia and so I didn't understand the text on the screen,but now I do
in the second part there are answers from one or the other side
Epic
How would I make it heavily in favour of the stormcloaks
Just give them everything and deny the Imperials everything
what are the 2 khajits doing next to you? guess 1 is a follower but the other one? do you have the follower mod with extra followers?
The other's a mod Follower, yeah. There's a few mods enabled, the most obvious probably being the subtitle font mod, though I kept things light.
The one on the right looks like Inigo, the follower mod
What kind of unique dialogue does Inigo have here?
Why are Ulfric and Rikke such whiny brats?
I guess Nords are famed for their swords not their words.
Both sides should have sent like diplomatic delegations not their generals and military leaders.
Ulfric and Elisif should be there, but just to sign the darn document, not talk.
They’re nords
because they are brothers
I mean, I'd be pretty angry too if I had to sit at the same table with Thalmor trash.
@@andrew-paulclements1502 That implies the Stormcloaks have any diplomats among their numbers.
perfect final hahaha
lmao the ending
5:25-it's stupid to make the same phrase and change its places
How can I make sure the reach stays in imperial hands?
Simplest option is to join the Stormcloaks. The mandatory opening demand will then be by the Imperials for the Rift, instead of by the Stormcloaks for the Reach.
Options that don't involve joining the Stormcloaks are somewhat limited. Joining the Imperials and completing the Civil War questline will of course keep the Reach under the Imperial banner.
It is also possible to join the Imperials, win all the Holds except the Stormcloaks' base Hold of Eastmarch/Windhelm, and then start the negotiation. This is a little tricky to pull off however, so I have a dedicated video for it - . What happens is the Stormcloaks will demand the Reach, but won't get it since they have no Holds left to bargain with. This is almost like winning the Civil War outright, though, since the Imperials will have everything except Windhelm. Though I suppose it's possible to give the Stormcloaks one of the Imperials' Minor Holds when they go into concessions, in the second half of the negotiation.
Allowing the Stormcloaks to take the Reach but then winning it back in the Civil War questline after completing the main questline might also be palatable, though I think Holds are only won-back towards the end of the Civil War questline, when the Dragonborn's side has conquered most other Holds.
@@milesq7689 can't you side with the empire and just refuse ulfric the reach?
Unfortunately not; unless the Dragonborn has joined the Stormcloaks, Ulfric will always get Markarth when he demands it. The only exception is if the Civil War questline is almost over and the Stormcloaks have no Holds left other than Windhelm/Eastmarch, though it isn't easy to start Season Unending under those conditions.