I'm so glad my friend introduced me to this channel! Thank you so much for the great content, i can't wait to be bragging about being one of your first 500 subs when the channel hits some big-big numbers :э
Yeah, we're really getting into Middle Eastern music actually. 31 works really nicely for that, too, although, as with any EDO lower than at least around 53 you lose some nuances..
@@HearBetweenTheLines Hey, do you know any good book about middle eastern music theory? There are books from more than thousand years ago I mean, Al-Farabi and guys like him wrote ofc but I don't know if they have any English translations. Even if they had, I don't think they study harmony :P
@@ucanihl Yes, Rami is actually reading one right now called "Inside Arabic Music: Arabic Maqam Performance and Theory in the 20th Century" by Sami Abu Shumays and Johnny Farraj It doesn't cover harmony, but if you want to understand how Maqamat work, it's the best out there right now. :)
Note that 31 TET is virtually the same as quarter comma meantone tuning including double sharps and double flats. So you can extract scales and chords with really consonant thirds and fifths that are just a bit more out than in 12 tone equal temperament.
@@stirlingblackwood It is. In this episode we didn't get into uneven divisions. That's another rabbithole - and a very exciting one at that! In another episode :)
@@stirlingblackwood Rami and I talked about this today - and I straight up just said minor sixth when I meant major sixth! Haha, sorry! The arrangement is at the link here: ua-cam.com/video/C6FpVhDUsfM/v-deo.html From 4:18 to 4:25, the bass line does it! B-C-Db-D#-E-F-FX-G# (On my Patreon account you can see the transcription early)
Great stuff guys! When you’re singing a 31 TET arrangement, after recording it, do you tune it in any way? (Adjustments for taste or specific cents) Or are you guys just using your ears?
@@HearBetweenTheLines god i freaking loved it! I couldnt even remember everything i loved about this vid but it definetly destroyed my brain, especially that örime number part just shows how everything is connected! Could you possibly tell me which program you used to play the microtones? I will definetly check out your other vids and will probably have to rewatch that one a few times. PS: 8:30 Sneaky lick
@@albusking2966 Yeah, it's absolutely bonkers how everything is connected, e.g. how each prime number in the overtone series is a new pitch-class! We're so glad you dig it! Share it with the world ;) And if you have any questions: We'll soon do a Q&A!
Ok, so question: how practical is all of this? I feel in real life intonation rarely gets so exact that a few cents feel like a different note, rather they affect how clean the harmonies sound. Even within the traditional western system, half steps can sometimes be more of a quarter step when it leads to the base (not too sure about the english terms, but what I mean is you heighten the seventh step to increase the pull towards the first/eighth step). On the other hand, arabic music uses more notes already. So are there scales ones should practice to get more of a feel for microtones? Will that affect the ability to play or sing a traditional major or minor scale?
Awesome questions! All of this is practically feasible, yes, but it requires practice and conceptualization. Humans can *easily* hear 10 cents difference, but producing that difference always proves difficult without a clear distinguishing idea. One needs to have names and contexts for every note. I've only been playing with microtones for only a couple of years now (vs the almost 25 years I've been working with12-TET) and I can reliably hear and produce everything down to a syntonic comma (so the difference between a 12-TET maj3rd and the smooth 5/4 ratio - more like 31 TETs maj3rd--> around 20 ct) singing solo and even smaller intervals in a harmonic context, but the key to that is just that: context! So yeah, microtones can be used for creating non-western tonal systems, as you rightly said, as a gestural/colourising effect, exactly, and/or for more in-tune harmony :)
@@HearBetweenTheLines Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions thoroughly, that's very impressive -and intimidating, if I'm honest. So how did you go about approaching microtones when you first started? And i guess you're a professional musician who did a lot of ear training in 12-TET before? (I'm not, and I'm guessing microtones might just be a concept that's a bit too advanced atm - but still fascinating).
@@Sarah-oj7bh You're welcome :) I think the best thing is to sing a lot and try to always know which note you're singing in the harmonic context. When you can reliably do 12 notes per octave, try and distinguish the harmonic 7th and the minor seventh (db7 vs b7) or the harmonic 11th and the sharp 11th (+11 vs #11). There are videos on UA-cam about these intervals, @mannfishh has great ones! My advice for anything: Don't put anything on a pedestal, don't let anyone intimidate you, it doesn't help the learning process and might even alienate you from others! Cheers!
Thanks!! Yeah, I think our favourite comment so far was: "(...)but 'shat' has unfortunate connotations. (...)" So the new nomenclature definitely gives us a lot of joy... By the way: There's also 'heart' for a 3/4 flat and 'fries' for 3/4 sharp. ;)
@@HearBetweenTheLines We are working with chamber instruments, such as violin, viola and flute, and then with a classical guitar (tuned normally, but with a lot of glissato possibility) and a Gu Zeng.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I want a friendship like Rami and Freddi. Sipping coffee and talking microtones. Changing the future.
tea, actually.
Hot Chocolate
@@FASTFASTmusic Chot Hocolate
@@Trainwreck3000 synthwave name
They are drinking microtonality
What an amazing unique channel. Glad to find you!
Glad you found us ;) Welcome aboard!
Great stuff once again. It's an interesting idea to choose an edo based on the divisions you want, and then letting that edo guide the other harmony.
I somehow knew- after your 19-tet series, that you would come here. Will you ever do one on 31-tet?
Oooh yes, we'd also be interested on your take on 31!
Thanks so much!
I'm so glad my friend introduced me to this channel! Thank you so much for the great content, i can't wait to be bragging about being one of your first 500 subs when the channel hits some big-big numbers :э
Thank you so much for your lovely comment, we're really happy about how the videos are being received! Tell as many people as you can! :D
6:00 You have just entered the realm of Middle Eastern music haha. It's so cool to see people working on theory.
Yeah, we're really getting into Middle Eastern music actually. 31 works really nicely for that, too, although, as with any EDO lower than at least around 53 you lose some nuances..
@@HearBetweenTheLines Hey, do you know any good book about middle eastern music theory? There are books from more than thousand years ago I mean, Al-Farabi and guys like him wrote ofc but I don't know if they have any English translations. Even if they had, I don't think they study harmony :P
@@ucanihl Yes, Rami is actually reading one right now called "Inside Arabic Music: Arabic Maqam Performance and Theory in the 20th Century"
by Sami Abu Shumays and Johnny Farraj
It doesn't cover harmony, but if you want to understand how Maqamat work, it's the best out there right now. :)
@@HearBetweenTheLines thank you very much!
@@ucanihl You're very welcome! If you have any questions, let us know!
Thanks for inviting us into your wormhole, so much fun!
wow microtonal stuff! this channel is a gold mine
Welcome aboard! :)
Fun stuff man! Also, I really like the table between you guys haha
Moroccan furniture for the win!
0:45 love how you talked to the rhythm, intentionally or not
Hehe, it wasn’t intentional, but it also made me happy :)
BOYS, YOU ARE GENIUS!! CONGRATULATIONS FROM ARGENTINA
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
And yet again! Such a great video!
It seems like the algorithm has finally understood what I want.
Man, I have so many people to support on Patreon now....this is GOLD!
We'd love to have you on board on Patreon!
Great stuff as usual!
Another great video! Thank you!
You're very welcome ;)
This is a great video, please continue doing this!
Thanks! That's the plan :))
Note that 31 TET is virtually the same as quarter comma meantone tuning including double sharps and double flats. So you can extract scales and chords with really consonant thirds and fifths that are just a bit more out than in 12 tone equal temperament.
You guys are gonna love my 19-TET arrangement of Bridge Over Troubled Water, I split a (edited) major sixth into seven in it :D
Did you also harmonise it? We'd love to hear it!
But isn't a 19TET minor sixth 13 steps? 🤔
@@stirlingblackwood It is. In this episode we didn't get into uneven divisions. That's another rabbithole - and a very exciting one at that! In another episode :)
@@stirlingblackwood Rami and I talked about this today - and I straight up just said minor sixth when I meant major sixth! Haha, sorry! The arrangement is at the link here:
ua-cam.com/video/C6FpVhDUsfM/v-deo.html
From 4:18 to 4:25, the bass line does it! B-C-Db-D#-E-F-FX-G#
(On my Patreon account you can see the transcription early)
Yes! I was waiting for this, great video!
Yeah, sorry it took so long, animating worms is much more work than we thought... :D
@@HearBetweenTheLines animated worms can greatly enhance viewers engagement, and you proved it!
@@MusicianParadise Did you get the joke about the wormhole in the beginning? ;)
@@HearBetweenTheLines Yes! (after reading your comment, lol) but I laughed so hard listening to microtonal "Girl from Ipanema" background music!
EP 3 lets go!
very well explained!!!🙂 best regards
Awesome, great job!
Thanks, Todd! Really glad you liked it. Have you ever done something similar?
This is so cool
Very good explanations
:dacob:
@@jonahmatos8829 obe
Thanks a lot!
Great stuff guys! When you’re singing a 31 TET arrangement, after recording it, do you tune it in any way? (Adjustments for taste or specific cents) Or are you guys just using your ears?
Thats just wow, thank you so much
Thank YOU for digging it! :)
hey im coming from the jacobean stream!
Awesome, glad to have you here! How'd you like the video? :)
@@HearBetweenTheLines god i freaking loved it! I couldnt even remember everything i loved about this vid but it definetly destroyed my brain, especially that örime number part just shows how everything is connected!
Could you possibly tell me which program you used to play the microtones?
I will definetly check out your other vids and will probably have to rewatch that one a few times.
PS: 8:30 Sneaky lick
@@albusking2966 Yeah, it's absolutely bonkers how everything is connected, e.g. how each prime number in the overtone series is a new pitch-class!
We're so glad you dig it! Share it with the world ;)
And if you have any questions: We'll soon do a Q&A!
@@HearBetweenTheLines i have so many quastions but probably better in a month after my abitur.
keep the great work up!
@@albusking2966 Awesome. Good luck!
5:05
¿2035? Puede ser.
Too underrated
Hey great video. What's the song at the end?
Thanks! It's a beatsketch Rami made after listening to the latest Moonchild album :)
@@HearBetweenTheLines nice is it released anywhere so we can take a listen?
Damn, this is a good strategy for creating temporary dissonance.
Your content is so awesome guys, thank you so much.
What's the song in the background at the end btw ?
Thanks so much! It's a loop Rami recorded last year inspired by the band Moonchild :) So it's not a song... yet?
Ok, so question: how practical is all of this? I feel in real life intonation rarely gets so exact that a few cents feel like a different note, rather they affect how clean the harmonies sound. Even within the traditional western system, half steps can sometimes be more of a quarter step when it leads to the base (not too sure about the english terms, but what I mean is you heighten the seventh step to increase the pull towards the first/eighth step).
On the other hand, arabic music uses more notes already. So are there scales ones should practice to get more of a feel for microtones? Will that affect the ability to play or sing a traditional major or minor scale?
Awesome questions!
All of this is practically feasible, yes, but it requires practice and conceptualization. Humans can *easily* hear 10 cents difference, but producing that difference always proves difficult without a clear distinguishing idea. One needs to have names and contexts for every note.
I've only been playing with microtones for only a couple of years now (vs the almost 25 years I've been working with12-TET) and I can reliably hear and produce everything down to a syntonic comma (so the difference between a 12-TET maj3rd and the smooth 5/4 ratio - more like 31 TETs maj3rd--> around 20 ct) singing solo and even smaller intervals in a harmonic context, but the key to that is just that: context!
So yeah, microtones can be used for creating non-western tonal systems, as you rightly said, as a gestural/colourising effect, exactly, and/or for more in-tune harmony :)
@@HearBetweenTheLines Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions thoroughly, that's very impressive -and intimidating, if I'm honest. So how did you go about approaching microtones when you first started? And i guess you're a professional musician who did a lot of ear training in 12-TET before? (I'm not, and I'm guessing microtones might just be a concept that's a bit too advanced atm - but still fascinating).
@@Sarah-oj7bh You're welcome :)
I think the best thing is to sing a lot and try to always know which note you're singing in the harmonic context. When you can reliably do 12 notes per octave, try and distinguish the harmonic 7th and the minor seventh (db7 vs b7) or the harmonic 11th and the sharp 11th (+11 vs #11). There are videos on UA-cam about these intervals, @mannfishh has great ones!
My advice for anything: Don't put anything on a pedestal, don't let anyone intimidate you, it doesn't help the learning process and might even alienate you from others!
Cheers!
the video quality is so obnoxiously good I sincerely wish I had noticed your channel before
Wow! Glad you enjoy it ;)
4:33 = F shat and F flarp?? :D still giggling. Awesome video, guys!
Thanks!!
Yeah, I think our favourite comment so far was: "(...)but 'shat' has unfortunate connotations. (...)"
So the new nomenclature definitely gives us a lot of joy...
By the way: There's also 'heart' for a 3/4 flat and 'fries' for 3/4 sharp. ;)
What tuning is that bass in?
Rami refretted most of it to 24-TET :)
Great, In the next weeks we work on some partitures by Philip Corner, father of the Fluxus music, wich using some microtones in is scores!!
Sounds interesting! In what setting are you working on that?
@@HearBetweenTheLines We are working with chamber instruments, such as violin, viola and flute, and then with a classical guitar (tuned normally, but with a lot of glissato possibility) and a Gu Zeng.
"Stay tuned", duh! I gotta stay detuned if I wanna practice my 31-tet! 9:17
8:30 when you played the licc I lost my mind
We just couldn't resist... ;)
I was pretty disappointed when I discovered that 31tet has terrible whole tones, why, just why. Adaptive JI it is then
Since it's near 1/4 comma(S.C.) meantone, yeah whole tone is almost exactly between 10/9 and 9/8
Took me too long to realize. I was once improvising using whole tones and felt so weird lol