I like Coco's message. It fools you with the message of "Follow your dreams, be who you want to be" but instead later tells you "Sometimes there are more important things"
Roach DoggJR I’d say it’s more the ones you love or care about. For example, Hector wanted to go back to his family and Ernesto, his close friend, wanted to follow his dreams and went way too far in his pursuit.
Fun Fact: The song “La Llorona” that Emelda sings is actually a song. Story: When my mom heard it in the movie theater she started crying because my deceased grandma used to play that song and sing it to her.
Can I just say I really, really, really don't get this guy's obsession with that crab? Everyone I know (myself included) were completely turned off by that chracter - I, for example, was watching Moana on Netflix and literally turned the tv off when I saw it, it was just really awkward, cringy and childish. I don't say this to denigrate anyone's opinion, but Moana and that character have been getting SUCH A HUGEEE mention and honor from this channel that I am really perplexed from - when did he explain why it was a huge cinematic feat? Never, yet on every single video he mentions it as one of the greatest Disney films ever. PLEASE EXPLAIN!!
me and my friends (one of which was mexican) had time to kill at the mall so we decided to go watch coco and the mall theatre just to pass the time, and right before the movie started my mexican friend starting talking all this shit about how he was gonna cringe so hard at the movie and how it was probably gonna be insulting towards his culture, but let me tell by the first 25 minutes of the movie, my guy just sat there in silence and was just completely engrossed into it. when we finished, this guy had the biggest smile on his face and would not stop talking about how incredible this movie was. when he went home, he told his family who similarly thought Coco would be bad to watch the movie the very next day, and why all loved it.
My boyfriend cried when he first watched the movie, and he told me it looked just like Mexico and Coco reminded him of his grandmother who passed a couple years ago. He still cries actually when we watch it.
Considering that Moana is a take on what happened during "The Long Pause," (and a take good enough to make a pretty good official future Polynesian folktale imo,) I cannot help but feel that the Polynesian influence on the setting and plot are a bit more significant than Scaff gave it credit for...
@@GrahamChapman Yes exactly, the only reason coco feels richer is because it focuses on one culture. While Moana is more of a culmination of many Polynesian futures (which was very well researched btw) in order to explain The Long Pause.
Yes. If you want defined muscles, you have to eat like that. Proteins, etc, you know, workout diet. Maui looks like he has a lot of muscle, but isn't defined as hell, because he isn't on a workout diet, he's just chillin' being super buff
Allie Snoëa I think it’s important to have both you know? I’m Latina and although I very proud of where I came from, my language, my culture....it also isn’t the only thing about me. So it should be a mix of stories of minorities who happen to be minorities doing really cool stuff and also stories based around the culture.
Culture or where you come from shouldn't happen, nothing should be based on a culture itself, but rather the people who go through the story and adventure
@@dollchomp The storyline draws from some general Polynesian mythology I think, and they use languages from several specific Polynesian cultures in one of the songs is all I know.
@@kittkatkitty1 I get what you're saying in the sense that race shouldn't be the only trait in a character, but us Polynesians are extremely under-represented in television and media. Like all we really have is 'Lilo and Stitch', Dwayne Johnson, and Taika Waititi. Everyone in my family was so happy to see that there was a major film being released that was going to showcase our heritage and culture, but when we went to see it in cinemas it felt like an "...oh" moment; really disappointing and underwhelming. The whole story was based around Polynesian culture and mythology, but then the only things in the film that reflected that was 1) the first 15-20 minutes of the film and 2) 'You're Welcome', then the rest of the movie takes place in the middle of the pacific or on an unhabited island.
@@mariejoseph8929 what about 101 Dalmatians? They did that one back in the early 2000s and I think it went pretty well. (Except I still haven't seen the original cartoon, so I'm probs not the best judge)
@@virginiasultana3654 I think he's talking about the recent ones, like Lion Kind, Dumbo, Beauty and the Beast, etc. They just feel unnecessary and usually never add anything to the original besides the live-action visuals.
@Cactus Juice Yeah no, totally. Will Smith was a total beast, and didn't try to copy the excellent and perfect performance of Mr.Williams. Which is great, he ended up actually being the most likeable part of the movie.
the broadway feel in moana probably comes from the fact that the guy who wrote the songs (lin-manuel miranda) also wrote hamilton, in the heights, and 21 chump street.
Great songs true, buuut if I was to be cynical: Hamilton was really popular around the time along with other works by Lin, so most likely a whole lotta people knew him. Possibly Disney using him to rake in more audience?
As a fellow greek man I can agree that Hercules isn’t that accurate and my biggest gripe with most representations of Hades is that he’s often portrayed as a bad guy but in mythology he’s actually one of the better gods. He does his job and doesn’t fuck around with mortal lives nearly as much as the rest of the pantheon. That being said Hades is fucking hilarious in the movie and is the best Disney villain ever. 10/10 would love for James Woods to be hades in the live action remake we will eventually get. Just give me a line incorporating the word Malaka from Phil and give me a lamb Souvlaki
@@hailpickens2454 he really is, but does have his limits. Idk if you’ve read the Percy Jackson books but that series has probably the best representation of Hades.
@@zerotohero1483 Percy Jackson books are one of the most accurate representations of greek mythology on pop culture, but it still have it's fair share of slips
My Mexican mom adores “Coco” and she says it reminds her of her old home. Also, Papa Julio looks like every older Mexican dad/uncle/grandpa so Pixar really did do their homework to make this movie work.
Wow, I'm polynesian and now I wish Pixar had made Moana. There were a lot of things that came across as inauthentic when I watched Moana and I could tell it was made by pakeha/palagi.
Mama Coco looks exactly like my great grandmother before she passed away, from the dress to the braided pig tails. Because of that, this movie made me feel like I was Miguel going through this adventure. It made the ending so much more emotional for me.
my family also loves Coco and we all screamed when we saw Ernesto being literally a homage of one of the oldest and most iconic artist: Pedro Infante, it just shows how much research there was and it made us all feel so giddy and happy even when the ending made us cry!
Big Difference... Disney: Believe in your dreams… While going on a fantasy adventure with cute sidekicks and living happily ever after Pixar: finding yourself… While living in a cold hard reality mixed with finding simple pleasures/adventuresin every day, normal life.
The scene in Coco where Miguel says that he doesn’t want more tamales and his abuelita gives him the “do not reject my food” face is pure gold Happens all the time!!!!
When he is about to sing to the mariachi and his abuelita starts beating the guy while saying sth like "stay away from my miguelito pequeñito angelito" i just lost it
Omg yes. Am not even Mexican and I can relate. In greece we have the classic " greek grandma™️" . She will make u eat anything she makes. You'll gain at least 10 pounds after visiting her
To be honest the Lilo and Stitch franchise is really underrated and they had some of the best cultural learning moments when it comes to Disney. I noticed a lot more as I got older but they quietly addressed some major cultural issues. High price of living, pandering to tourists, racism against Hawaiians, assimalation, poverty, lack of job security, geographic isolation, etc. Moana addressed Polynesian cultural history and beautifully done. Lilo and Stitch really brought attention to the current cultural climate for a lot of Pacific Island nations.
yeah wasn't the whole thing of Lilo taking pictures at tourists a way of showing in reverse how the hawaiians are most of the time treated as an exotic rarity or just another prop to photograph? but then again i think they cut the scene where this is explicated out the movie and we all know why so yeah
@@briciolaa they also cut out a scene that was outright showing the racisms A tourist says "Oh look a real island native!" and another tourist says "Hey, do you know english! Which way's the beach?"
"overweight" Yeah nah mate, that's actually just functional muscle. My boyfriend is a literal lumberjack and he has a build p similar to Maui's, just a hair taller. Homeboy can launch me like a toothpick. That brown face costume is def a big ol yikes tho lmao
@@froggy9822 It's just a visual representation of him having inhuman strength. It doesn't matter if he doesn't look exactly like in the original legends.
@@SirQuadrat i mean, i get what you're saying, but it kinda does matter, since they are pulling Maui from polynesian culture, and probably could have represented him and other stuff a tad better
@@SirQuadrat There are a lot of way to portrait inhuman strength without making him looks like Incredible Hulk man-pregnated Wreck-It Ralph then dropped the baby face first on concrete floor.
Pixar: "Let's create a beautiful movie full of emotions" Disney: "Let's create a beautiful movie full of merchandise" Illumination Studio: "Let's create merchandise"
The petals in Coco were gorgeous, and that's just my favorite part of the animation. The water in Moana was awesome, and Moana's hair not to mention. Both are very lively and fun stylistically speaking, but I will always prefer Coco
Absolutely! Moana and Coco were both amazing to me because of the astounding visuals. Also being someone who has attended many funerals, Coco had me really emotional by the end of it 😢 but it was so worth it!
yeah but i can see why maui could be seen as a stereotypical islander, as a samoan person it honestly doesn't really bother me although i can see why other polys have a problem with it.
one of my friends and i did that a while back! since i'm going through with my Spanish classes all thee way to AP i wanted to get a better understanding of both the movie and the language and it actually worked so well
Also, so many songs from other Disney movies end up better in Spanish. Or French. Or a lot of other languages. The Spanish versions of the Coco songs are definitely the best.
have people who called maui “overweight” seen an actual muscular body builder? no, not the ones hollywood casts and muscle models. I mean actual body builders who compete in actual strength competitions. those dudes are HUGE.
Yeah Maui just looked massively buff to me. I have a feeling nobody really thought he was fat and some reporter just needed a boost in their click rate.
Typically fighters are top heavy and have a big square build, so that’s what I saw when Maui was first shown. He seemed muscular and strong, so I don’t really see how someone would say that he’s fat.
Miguel's abuelita saying he's as skinny as a stick and demanding he eat more is 1000% my abuelita so that alone gave Coco points for me. I also found it very nice to hear the random spanish they threw out just as a bilingual family would do.
Moana did have one big Cultural song it was "We know the way" and a lot of the background music is traditional but I agree that Coco knocks it out of the water in that respect
on god bro, i was so happy when i heard samoan in that song since we got no media rep outside nz, and the media rep we get in nz is usually on the police channels 💀💀
@ Pretty sure Disney just changed it so if you googled "Kuzco" the first thing that would come up is the character rather than the city. I don't think a major corporation working on a movie would accidentally misspell it.
As someone who's lived in that culture for most of my life, Coco was downright surreal how "real", for lack of a better word, it was to me. Not just accurate, but actually real, little details that almost felt like they came from my childhood projected onto the big screen. That's something I've never experienced from a movie before, especially not a Pixar/Disney movie.
Yea I love how Pixar actually does their research, gets to know the actual people in the culture, and WANTS to portray the culture in a realistic way. Disney puts little hints of their culture but then the movie is full of Western musical numbers and pop culture references. Which is fine, but if you're going to portray a culture I feel that you should respect the culture.
Mhm, that scene where the grandma is running around with the chancla was awesome. Those tamales looked like real tamales and not to mention they referenced El Santo of all people. Like who other than older Mexican folk would even known of El Santo?
Raith- I'm surprised none of the Maui naysayers didn't get branded "fatphobic". But seriously, Yeah he's not even fat. He's just muscular and thick. He kinda reminded me of those strongman competitors.
In defense of Moana... I went to see it in theaters with a group of only poly friends (i was in their Polynesian dance troupe) and they were excited and commenting throughout the movie on how accurate to the stories they grew up with as kids many of the characters and stories within the film itself were. It was cool to hear their comments as someone who has little to no knowledge on a lot of their culture. They also did have a lot of their soundtrack done by Te Vaka, a super popular Tokelaun group 😄
You also got to take into account that these two studios, although they’re the same company, have different target demographics. Disney primary target demographic is children and they’re secondary target demographic is teens and young adults. They use bright flashy colors and extremely catchy songs that appeal to children a lot more, while also having a few underlining themes and somewhat deep story that appeal to teens and young adults. Pixar’s primary target demographic , on the other hand, is teens and young adults while they’re secondary target demographic is children. They have extremely deep story’s and a lot of underlining themes that appeal to teens and young adults, all wrapped in a colorful cartoon, with a few upbeat catchy songs throw in occasionally, which appeals to children.
Except most of our myths describe him as a slender youth, who is not allowed to join his more accomplished older brothers in their quests. That's why a lot of polynesians disliked his concept design, it was like doing a film about David and Goliath and David is as big and buff as Goliath.
Coco got Frida Kahlo wrong. She was not an ego maniac. She painted what she felt, and if she felt like her ex husband only liked the Mexican side of her, she would paint that. I found this on "The wounded deer" "At the lower-left corner, the artist wrote down the word "Carma", which means "destiny" or "fate". Just like her other self-portraits, in this painting Frida expressed the sadness that she cannot change her own fate. Frida used her pet deer "Granizo" as the model when she painted this portrait." She also had a pet deer and at least one monkey!!
@@carmenmercedes9903 yes she’s extensively including herself in her own artwork in the movie but considering the weirdness of it all, it doesn’t seem like something that her character is doing to make herself look good. Looking like a cactus or crawling like a bunch of spiders isn’t very flattering. So instead, it just comes across to me as eccentric rather than egotistical, as i said before. Plus, her being nice to Miguel and being willing to take feedback from Miguel makes her character seem kind rather than narcissistic. At least, that’s how her portrayal personally felt to me
Just wanted to mention that, while Lee Unkrich did direct Coco, the story came from Adrian Molina, the co-director, who is Latino and was inspired in part by his own upbringing and experiences when he created the story. So to say that Coco's successful representation of Mexican culture was thanks to research on the part of Lee Unkrich isn't quite accurate. I think it's also worth mentioning the emphasis that Pixar puts on the idea that "the best stories are inspired by real experiences." Adrian was inspired by his own experiences and culture, which, in my opinion, is why Coco is so powerful, genuine, and of course culturally aware. Just wanted to throw that out there :)
I have actually cried every single time I have watched Coco. I'm not a cry-person, at all. But still. Every. Single. Time. Remember me is just too powerful for my manly finnish soul.
I love this comparison! I'm half Samoan and was so excited to see Moana, and while I like a lot of things about it, you're absolutely right about how Polynesian culture was pretty much just a tool for Disney to say "see? ~Diversity/cultural exploration~" without really putting in the work. Like you said, the story was not at all contingent on any aspect of Polynesian culture other than having folklore. Honestly - especially with characters like Tamatoa, Te Fiti, & the Kakamora - it seemed more like a fantasy/magical movie that just happened to contain islander elements.
The two things that bother me most is the way the take a wide range of interconnected cultures and just act like there's no distinction between them. They make it seem like Hawaiian, Tahitian, Samoan and Maori culture are all the same and don't need to be preserved as separate cultures. The other thing is copyrighting the word Moana. The audacity.
I've never got the complaint that Maui is shown as supposedly overweight. He's not. He's shown as an enormous caricatured tank of muscle. He ripples those muscles frequently throughout the movie, makes the tattoo character dance as he hops his pecs around. And he's directly modelled on The Rock's grandfather. Look him up, he's basically exactly the same but without the tattoos. They tried to really make Maui look awesome. Maybe some people interpreted it differently from how they intended, and maybe the caricaturing didn't quite land, but they weren't trying to make this deity of Polynesian culture out to be a fat lazy slob by any means.
@Psy Duck For real, like my faincé is definitely on the chubbier side but I've seen the man lift an average size refrigerator by himself, squishiness doesn't equal strength lol
From what i heard mauis bodytype was more natural body muscle mass than ripped body building, and he also looked similar to the rock's granddad who was also a strong guy (i think it was grandpa not 100% sure)
I thought it was cool that Disney portrayed Maui with a different body type than what you would typically associate with a physically fit and strong person (slim waist & defined muscles). In all reality, those body types aren't nearly as strong or have the amount of endurance than someone like Maui would have.
@@lostkin4910 flushed aways a classic film wys, managed to showcase key parts of british/mainly english culture in a good tone with pretty decent humour. yeah its a rat who got flushed down the bog but its still a quality film. theres probably others that are a better showcase but in my current film experience flushed aways the best one ive found
I absolutely LOVED coco, most of the time when people try to include Hispanic culture, it’s usually still very stereotypical. So it was refreshing to see Mexican culture shown in the right way, and I’m not even Mexican. I really hope other Hispanic countries will also get representation and culture shown
Yes but remember “Polynesian culture” isn’t just one culture. Hawaiian culture and traditions can have huge discrepancies from the Maori culture in New Zealand, not to mention the thousands of islands in between. Whoever made the movie ( yes let’s put aside allll of Disney’s flaws first) may have a hard time landing on one specific culture or the overall Polynesian, the (mis)representation can likely offense a lot and mislead children. this video does a good job in reminding us to study and learn more about a represented culture from all sources and not just a single (corporate) film.
Yes!!! I remember being around 9 or 10 when Moana came out, having seen it in theatres with my parents, and my mom, being Samoan, was also understandably excited. I'd keep whispering to her if things were accurate and if a song was in Samoan, and during "We Know The Way," she mentioned that the first verse was Samoan, the second verse Tongan. She also mentioned some of the culture seen on the island wasn't entirely Samoan, either. Moana mixes different Polynesian cultures into this one movie, but I figure the creators got lost between it all, so maybe that's why she was on the ocean almost the entire time. Because it's hard to take all these different, yet similar cultures and blend it together without being confused. And I don't blame them, I get Tokelau and Samoan mixed up now and then whenever I hear em 😵
@@ktw5574 The movie is also set in obviously largely pre colonization times, given that the ancestors ship are still seaworthy mayby somewhere between the 11th 15th century, probably at a time where different islands had less separated cultures (like French and Spanish culture became different the further you get from the end of the roman empire). besides since it's disconnected from a specific historical and cultural setting (beside pre columbian polynesian) I can understand the generalisation here, the tale is not so much about polynesian history as much as about adventure and self discovery. I don't blame the hunchback for not being a perfect depiction of the french society at that time either for exemple. OverallI think it is a step in the right direction, putting in the spotlight a rarely shown culture (except lilo and stich which i loved)
As a Samoan New Zealander I have to agree! Traditions definitely vary in every small island nation. I think while Polynesian culture could have had more of an impact on the storyline, the way the filmmakers represented our culture as a whole (rather than just making Moana come from a specific Pacific Island country) was well done. I heard Samoan, Tokelauean, and Hawaiian in one song, which was mind-blowing to me at the time lol and all the PI's were buzzing about it when it came out
@@ktw5574 bruh when we were in theaters and we know the way came on, my mom (tongan) kept translating the lyrics and i kept having to shush her bc she was so loud lmfaooo
Honestly, me too. I watched Moana and had a good time, but I only saw it once and it didn't elicit any particularly strong emotions. I watched Coco and loved it. The music, the characters, the world, and the character growth. From a scared 12 year old who learns to place his family above himself, to a jaded wife who overcomes a century of hatred. It was so unique, and I cried like a babe at the end.
I feel the same! Coco was emotional and sweet and I felt like almost every minute of it was a treat. Moana, however, didn't do much for me. I had fun with it while I watched it, but then promptly kinda forgot about it. It didn't leave a big impact on me like Coco did. Schaffrillas mentioned all the reasons he didn't like Coco as much as Moana, which is totally fine. Different strokes for different folks. But I didn't care about the things he mentioned because lots of comedy is not a make or break for me. I don't mind more serious movies. And I didn't mind the "lack of tension" in the start because the movie was using that time to establish emotions, character interactions, and a lot of beautiful scenery and culture. I loved it.
@@koro8gin True, but it's also Disney and this was prior to Jojo Rabbit, so he likely couldn't take as many risks as he did with Jojo Rabbit. Anyway it's ironic for folks to attack him for "normalizing fascism" when he's a mixed-race Jew who works for Disney, probably one of the most hated demographics by fascists.
@@koro8gin He didn't actually write the movie, though, he wrote a draft early in development and left the project. There was a Polynesian advisor group which is cool but it undeniably not exactly a Polynesian story, it's a cookie-cutter Disney story
@@pridemoth_ as a maori person I can confirm to you that this is a polynesian story, everything down to the 2000 year 'long pause' in voyaging was accurate to polynesian history and culture. Just because it was written by a white hand doesn't fault it's accuracy, the original story was written by a maori man, and different peoples of polynesian descent gave their incite towards the oveall making of the film. Honestly notice how the only people advocating for cultural accuracy within moana are non-polynesians. Of course these films aren't going to follow a 100% true story, these are Hollywood blockbusters. I don't see the same people complaining about the obviously made up story of a young mexican boy going to the afterlife to meet his deceased family.
I remember seeing Coco for the first time in San Ysidro, a city directly bordering Mexico, with my Mexican family in a theater FULL of Latinos. The whole theater cracked up at jokes like the abuela throwing the chancla and the chorizó gag, and cried at the end when Miguel brought the photo back to Mama Coco (who happens to look JUST LIKE my deceased great grandmother, Nana Lupita). My grandmother ended up seeing the movie 3 times, and our local theaters screened the movie in English AND Spanish. I also remember recently rewatching Princess and the Frog with my Black friend, seeing her recite every word to the scenes with young Tiana & her family, and laughing with her at the gumbo bit. She explained that she knew it by heart because she watched it over and over as a young Black girl, just like my family had gone back again and again to see Coco. Representation matters! There’s so many different types of people out there in the world, all with beautiful, rich, complex stories to tell, and showcasing those perspectives just makes for better storytelling. The infusion of jazz into Princess in the Frog (though it is VERY flawed) and the celebration of mariachi in Coco just serves to make these movies BETTER & more musically distinct from other Disney/Pixar classics.
As a Norwegian teen, I want to say that Disney didn’t do much research on Norwegian history/culture when they made Frozen~ Edit: first of all- wow, didn’t expect to get 4K likes And second of all, yes Frozen is set in a Norwegian-inspired kingdom, the castle is inspired by stav kirker and Akershus festning, and the town of Bergen~ Anna, Elsa, Olaf, Kristoff and Hans are really common Norwegian/Scandinavian (or even just Germanic) names. And the northern people in the sequel are heavily based on the Samí-people living in North- Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia. Anna’s dress from the first movie is based on traditional Norwegian dresses, I personally see it as a Frankenstein of all the dresses and I hate it :)
@@Ally5141 that's really stupid, forced diversity ruins a movie. Mermaids are European myths. That's like a white man playing in African myths/legends.
Spaghetti It felt somewhat out of place for me too until I got curious enough researched the topic: Denmark-Norway participated in the slave trade, meaning some Nobels kept African slaves during the 1700 and first half of 1800. The black man in Frozen 2 is likely based on a young boy named Adam that arrived from St. Croix to Arendal (fun fact: Arendell is based on Arendal) in 1778. He escaped, but later returned to the slave owner. He was put on trial, but the judge decided Adam should be freed. The story of Frozen takes place in 1840, after Denmark-Norway abolished slavery for good in 1803, meaning the black man in Frozen would be a free man. I doubt black people had it as easy during that time period as depicted in Frozen 2, people weren’t kind back in the day, but this is a Disney movie we are talking about, I doubt they will ever dare explore such gritty topics in one of their movies. I’ll leave the link to the Wikipedia page and it’s sources down below if you’d like to read for yourself, but it’s in Norwegian though :) no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansk-norsk_slavehandel#cite_note-11
There isstoryI love where the directors talk about how they would show earlier drafts to Mexican community leaders to make sure they got things right, and the gave the grandma a rolling pin. and the leaders said: "no no no, grandma hits us with her shoe."
Quick remark about people getting upset that Maui is portrayed as fat: he is not. He is absolutely not. The way he is portrayed (solid stomach, no six pack, not 100 Kilos of muscles per arm) is the most accurate to legitimate strength you can get. Hollywood and Bodybuilder culture's got you brainwashed into thinking more muscles=more strength, but muscles are unnecessary and oftentimes even restrictive accessories. Most people with mountains for legs and arms couldn’t even complete a strongman's warm-up and would start panting like dying dogs. Look at strongmen, while we are at it. Do they fit in your typical "oh he’s got no defined muscles, that means he is purely made of fat"? Yes. Could they still snap your spine with their small toe? Also yes. Tl;dr: Maui's not fat. He’s the closest to strong a human (or in this instance, demigod) can be, physically.
Yep. He doesn't have a six pack because you have to have a low amount of body fat to do that and it's just not feasible for most people who actually go out and do stuff.
Actually Hercules has one greek reference. There is one scene that Phil says “two words. I am retired!” In English it’s three but in greek it’s “Είμαι συνταξιούχος!” which is two.
@@InquisitorThomas i meaan, Hades did kidnap Persephone, but thats not the worst thing a greek god has done. I think actually Zeus is the most evil one. Like literally! He took fire from man, he fucks women disguised as animals, their husbands or something else. He's an awful god.
@@littlebitches more like Persephone was curious and fell down a hole and ate food even though she was told not do or she'll be in the underworld forever (except every spring?? I think) ... at least that's how I have always heard it
Inquisitor Thomas I wouldn't say it's poor, if you came into a Disney movie expecting a serious historically accurate retelling of anything, you've come to the wrong movie. They are inspired by stories and cultures often, from Hercules to Hamlet, and then have a lot of creative liberties to build their own world and story from. It's not lazy or poor quality, it's just focused very differently, has a different motive and for a different audience. It's definitely not a historical movie because it doesn't want to be, it wants to be its own canon, in the same way Pixar goes "what would toys do if they were alive" Disney went "what if we made Greek Gods alive in a jazzy "kiddy" mix of past and present culture, how would they act and how would it change?" Though in part I would agree about one thing- they can learn a little more about cultural representation both real world ones and generally building richly communicated ones into their film (real or not), but every film seems to be getting better
Y'know that "chocked on a chorizo" joke, I speak Spanish, and a pp joke wasn't my first initial thought was that they were making fun of the, "death by food" kind of thing.
Also Maui's not overweight and people are stupid. He had real muscles, like how strong men have, not glamour muscles like body builders. He doesn't jiggle at all, he's a solid mass of muscle
Us Polynesians still don't like it he's still massive like many stereotypes say we are when a lot of us are slim and muscular it just seemed like they were giving into stereotypes when they made Maui. Toa Samoa that's all
@@THE_GORILLAGUY_VR So, because some people think most polynesian are wide (which is true, polynesian being favored in that way by bone structure and genetics) it become a bad thing to portray a character, whom happens to be polynesian, as wide?
@@arthurbordet8754 No, it became a bad thing to portray a skinny and muscular character as wide. Maui was skinny before moana came out, I guess thats the problem people have with it.
@@Alkiviadis_ plus dont forget that hercules was the roman name for his actual greek name: Heracles (like the beetle) Because hera was trying to kill him on several occasion, but survived
Hi, Pacific Islander here 👋🏾 My whole life I've been interested in my Samoan culture, and I remember being unbelievably excited hearing about Moana when it came out. Yes, it's mostly set out on the ocean, but what's being forgotten is that voyaging was, in fact, a giant part of our culture. That's what my ancestors did, they set out on voyages, they used to the stars as a map, and Maui was part of the legends. I do agree that it could have been executed much better, the dolls were most definitely...darker than you'd expect, but it was still enjoyable. Although, I feel like most attention for Moana comes from the fact that Lin worked on music, and sang in two songs, one of them in the end credits. That's my problem with Moana, or the audience at least. Because I remember going through the comments on Moana-related videos and it _only_ being about Hamilton, the Pacific Islander comments near the bottom. So Disney kind of won, but also messed up with that one. But also, as a comment on here said, Polynesian culture is more than _one culture._ There's a lot of islands, and although some cultures and languages may sound the same (an example is Tokelauan and Samoan), they're also different in their own ways. So combining all of these cultures together might have been difficult, considering they have to pack it into a one hour movie. Coco accomplished Mexican culture because that's the only culture they were focusing on. Moana is more of a difficult subject with culture, because it's a vast majority of different ones. You can tell Lin and whoever else wrote the music tried to incorporate different languages, with the opening song being in Samoan, "An Innocent Warrior" in Tokelauan (I think), and "We Know The Way" having Samoan for the first verse, Tongan in the second. There's other cultures (I'm saying this alot but I'm terrible at describing shit sorry), but those are the _main_ ones featured and given a glimpse at in Moana. It must've been difficult trying to combine the other cultures into the movie without it confusing the audience or possibly getting something very wrong, so that's one reason why the movie could've taken place in the water the whole time. Because, especially when it's not your culture/a culture that's _rarely_ represented, research isn't always going to be enough, let alone trying to represent multiple cultures yourself. I still think Moana was a fantastic movie and that not enough people talk about it. And it's obviously going to hold a special place in my heart because that's my people, with their own movie made by _Disney._
This is a great explanation. I liked that the film raised my interest in Polynesian cultures. I've never met any Polynesians so all I know is from what I've seen online and in films & tv. If they make Moana 2, I just hope they make the songs that are sung in Polynesian languages a lot longer.
Thanks for the explanation and opinion, that was interesting to read 🙂 Do you think they should have focused on just one Polynesian culture or do you think it was a good idea to amalgamate them so that all Polynesians could be at least somewhat represented? Also I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the fact that Disney can now cash in on every culture it chooses to represent. It kind of seems like a downside to representation, especially by a giant like Disney. I always kind of think the worst type of cultural appropriation is when members of a powerful/oppressive culture capitalize on oppressed/marginalized cultures by commercializing those cultures, eg. a massive US corporation like Disney profiting off of selling little plastic models of Moana’s wa’a kaulua while so many Polynesian nations still experience striking poverty after colonialism, or profiting off of their little Día de los Muertos plaza at Disneyland while Mexicans suffer from extreme poverty in Mexico and discrimination and cruel immigration enforcement in the US. Sorry, I didn’t mean for that to be such a downer. I just feel like the representation in these movies is getting better and better and it’s really cool but there’s always the subsequent cash grab of merchandising that kind of negates Disney’s attempts at progressivism. I think it could only be solved if the people profiting off of that merchandising (and the films themselves) were the people being depicted in the films.
@@bonesandhearts5683 No, no! It's all good, I'm glad you shared your insights! As far as Polynesian culture representation, I think it's good they chose to try and incorporate different ones, being as, again, the Polynesian/Pacific Islander culture is really underrepresented and not talked about that much, especially in modern day America. I mean hey, it's better than just saying "Hawaiians are the only Polynesians!" I personally think that after the Disney Renaissance, the company clearly began to grow. But as they started doing CGI and whatnot, they started focusing more on the franchise rather than making a good movie. That's why Ralph Breaks The Internet was such a flop. They knew they didn't have to try because it'd appeal to younger children anyway, which means more "I want this toy, I want that," and more purchases on merchandise and whatever. Although, I do 100% see your point with the representation part. How many Polynesian cultures still struggle after the colonization, and how Mexican/Hispanic immigrants are being treated at the border. And to that I'll simply say; Do I think representation of underrated cultures is good? Absolutely! Especially if you have younger children watching, it might help them learn something. Do I think profiting off of the project is bad? No, it just depends on how you approach it (i.e not whitewashing darker skinned characters, not making toys look offensive, etc). But do I think doing all this and choosing NOT to speak out/try to help these struggling cultures that you've represented is bad? In a way, yes. I understand Disney has different parts to take over, considering how big of a company it is. Whether it be maintaining Disney World/Land Parks, budgeting out movies, advertisement, etc. That takes a lot. But I think they should still try and help these countries they're putting on the big screen, because many people will see these places and go touring, ignoring the big issue that may be happening that they're unaware of, you know? There's two sides to every story, and I like to stay open-minded. And in this case, you're making absolutely great points. Sorry I didn't reply sooner btw
KT W Thanks so much for replying 😊 I should give you fair warning that I’m...not a big fan of capitalism. Like I think modern racism was invented to further capitalism and that Disney will never really be a net positive for the world in terms of ending global injustices as long as it’s a corporate giant and the means of production remain un-seized 😬. The workers gotta grab those wacom cintiqs, y’know? But like, regardless, marginalized people need to be represented in media. I totally support that. And, while we’re stuck with global capitalism, I think what would make the cash-grabbiness of these movies and merchandise better would be if the people making the movies and selling the merchandise were members of those cultures. Like not just the voice actors or the consultants or the directors or the screenwriters, but like the people actually making bank off of this stuff. Like representation in media shouldn’t just refer to who’s being portrayed, but also who is producing the media. Basically I think it would be better if these films and merchandise were products of the places they represent. Like, Disney movies and merch are all products of the US and any profits made off of them end up contributing to the US GDP. I think it would be better if Disney was partnered with an actual Samoan or Mexican animation studio and if they just kind of used their influence and reach to help produce something that would ultimately be a product of Mexico/Samoa and contribute to the Mexican/Samoan GDP. Also the things you mentioned about people seeing the movies and touring the places but not being aware of the larger issues - I think that’s a great point. On the one hand, at least tourism could be a way that the places/cultures depicted in these films can profit off of the movies. On the other hand, it’s a disservice if tourists aren’t aware of the problems people living there actually face. That’s actually one of the reasons I liked Lilo and Stitch: it does perpetuate the “Hawaiians are the only Polynesians” trope, but at least it actually does depict some of the issues native Hawaiians have to deal with, including ignorant white tourists. You’ve got Lilo feeling like an outsider in the place and culture she’s from (eg. when the white girls in her hula class ostracize her), you’ve got money issues that force Nani to work at a tourist trap and Lilo to entertain tourists for cash, you’ve got state interference in Nani and Lilo’s lives (ie. the scary social worker threatening to take Lilo away)...idk it’s actually surprisingly good. That said, I don’t think every Disney movie that features marginalized people should be about their struggles. I like that Moana and Coco are triumphant portrayals of their respective cultures. I do think it’s good to have that mix though; having some movies like Lilo and Stitch might help with the ignorant tourist issue. Sorry this is so freaking long and rambling. You just made me think is all 😊
I completely agree with you and so appreciate the thoughtfulness of your responses here! I am half-Tahitian. I think one of the things the creator of this video is not considering is how Polynesians are not really represented in popular media, at least not in the US. We aren't taught about Polynesian history the way we learn about Greek history in school, and we aren't exposed to Polynesian traditions the way we might see Mexicans in our community celebrate important days such as Dia de los Muertos. We are truly a minority. When I say I was born in Tahiti, most people have no idea where or what that is. Other than the Rock and a few specific films, Americans don't have the chance to learn about us, and so this film had a huge task in educating people about our culture in a way that was digestable and didn't take away from the story. It seemed to also feel the pressure to represent all of us, which I personally thought was cool, but again, a huge task. It felt as though the qualities to the story that were specifically Polynesian were very clear to Polynesians, such as Mama Tala coming back as a manta ray...the fact that Moana, as a woman, was chief is another, as pre-colonization, Polynesian cultures were egalitarian and not the patriarchal structure we see now...even the little things like tatau, taro, the siva or ori, the tiare flowers in the background. There were a lot of Polynesian details there if you knew what to look for. I felt that they tried to weave the traditions of Polynesia into the story, but the knowledge base on the culture would need a more solid base for it to register the way that the cultural pieces of Coco did. That being said, I do think Coco did a way more effective job at representing Mexican culture than Moana did, and it makes me wonder if they would have been more successful if they had "picked a lane" and just made Moana a specific Polynesian culture. I personally would have loved if they made the story more a deal where she traveled around Polynesia, learning from each group of people, instead of with those stupid monsters and the kakamora, which def were not represented well at all!
Legit, watching Coco in theaters for the first time. There was an audio error with the film and you just heard static during the short. That was more entertaining than the short itself.
Coco is actually pretty underrated imo, even though it was successful. I noticed this when it won best original song and everyone started to call it overrated immediately. The song is great and literally plays a role in the story.
Exactly!!! It's so sad... I hope one day is considered for what it is, regardless of own tastes, that is, one of the best movies *EVER* because it is an Absolute Masterpiece, a true work of art, one of the very few milestones of cinema, a marvel for the eyes, the heart and the soul, something simply indescribable in words, because there are no positive adjectives to describe it! 😢💜
Flower Soul well god damn 😅👌🏼. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but the movie did do so many things well. The music, pacing, character relationships, and emotional resonance where all on point. Definitely up there with Pixar’s best films at the very least.
Yes, I imagined that it wouldn't be exactly that for you (I felt it, because this is what few people think, from what I read), but I wanted to say what I thought... I think certainly surpasses all the Pixar movies (and I love them all eh) and is one of the best movies that exist, because I find it has an exceptional writing (of history and characters), which has a lot (but really a lot) of complex issues and well nestled between them as a puzzle of 1000 pieces assembled perfectly, the songs are exceptional (not to mention "Remember Me", which is the song that feels most part of the movie and has various levels of reading, even if all the others are and are beautiful), the soundtrack, the characters, colors, atmosphere, setting and graphics are crazy, it's very moving and transmits emotions of all kinds as very few movies can do (and personally, never any movie has excited and moved me so much, despite my crazy love for the animation and the cinema, and despite being a very emotional, sensitive and empathetic person), has some plot twists that make you say "Ah, oh my God", it makes you think a lot, is very faithful to Mexican culture, has a beautiful universal story where everyone can relate, a rhythm that never falls (on the contrary), is full of details, is very deep, complex, nuanced and dares a lot, has wonderful morals, helps you so much in so many things, it's both sad and joyful, it feels very real even though it's also a fantasy, it's full of contrasts, which however work perfectly, has a vibrant direction and set design, it also has a flood of movie genres in itself, and I could go on for hours... for all that, I think is a complete, perfect movie that has literally shocked me, never believing I can see something like that, in a movie that then lasts neither two hours! I know it's a very unpopular thought, but I'm sure of all this and I think it's a very very underrated movie, unfortunately... this movie needs more love and understanding, this is more than certain! You think that for me it *also* had to win, at least, the Oscar as "Best Picture" and "Best Soundtrack"! 😢
@@flowersoul6894 hss a bad villian coco is never in any danger cause he has his whole deceassed family to back him up.why the fuck would his grandmother keep a picture of him if he has breaked their hearts,and if he truly belives he did nothing wrong then why does his mother hate music and how does he keep the fascist music hating regime
It shouldn't even be a question why people would cry over that, that part, every second of it, was the most emotional I've been in any animated movie. Jesus christ even the teacher, who watched it three times, balls her eyes out when that moment came into the TV
The songs do sound way better in Spanish. I watched this in a Spanish course and even though I didn't learn a word of Spanish in that class I liked the songs much more in Spanish. The cringe of the songs in English just made me really uncomfortable, I don't know why. They should have used the Spanish versions of the songs in every language.
I love _Coco_ music in Spanish, but I watch the movie in English because I'm not Hispanic. And what's cool about the soundtrack for the English version is that the music is either bilingual (certain parts are in English, and others are in Spanish) or entirely in Spanish. IDK, I really like that detail, I guess.
as a Mexican American person, thank you for making this video because i think you are completely right. Coco does in incredible job at showcasing our culture, our food, our music, and our language. I never get to see that kind of representation and it made me so happy to see characters that i could relate too. Coco is one of my favorite pixar movies and it makes me cry every time that i watch it.
@@KL-ki8db true, but coco and the book of life are both incredible movies (in my opinion), i just see coco as a family type of movie and the book of life as a romance type of movie. either way, both represent mexican culture and i feel so proud to be mexican.
I haven't seen it since I was a kid and only vaguely remember that the villain turns the prince in to a frog and I believe that when she kisses the prince she is turned in to a frog too, but to be fair, I haven't seen it since I was a kid...
The part they got right the most in Moana was "We Know the Way", where they have the voyagers singing in their preferred dialect, aka the only one they know, and have a different singer song the part in English, which I like a lot.
Same, I might be biased bc I'm Mexican but the plot was way more interesting and had a lot of depth, the story went beyond the 'kid following his passion' story but focused on family dynamics as well--a topic that is HUGE in Hispanic culture-- and integrated it within the culture in a way that people of all walks of life could relate to. I felt moana's story was severely lacking in that depth that going into the cultural world further would have provided and replaced it with shiny characters to fluff up the plot and give it Broadway appeal. Though I liked moana I left the theater disappointed by the near surface level integration of such a beautiful culture.
I related to much to coco, it made me smile because it was so accurate of mexican culture, as a mexican, coco is my close second favorite Disney film (Pixar is owned by Disney) first favorite is princess and the frog
@@lunchbagmermaid4590 I've basically memorized the plot of Moana. When I was younger, my siblings and we would try to sing the instrumental version of songs. AND WE WOULD DO IT PERFECTLY. So, yeah. I'm kind of biased against Moana. .-.
I cried for both. I cried when the grandma died and came back in Moana(she’s my favorite character besides Tomatoa). I cried during Coco when Miguel started singing Remember Me to his grandma.
Coco was full of forced sadness. And did you seriously cry over it? -_- Your probably one of those annoying shits in Pixar movies that always cry and it's so annoying and I can never hear the damn dialogue you privileged white suburban kid
celeste aguilar it wasn't a good movie tho. How are they gonna have the first black princess be a frog for the majority of the movie? As an African-American girl that grew up not having a Disney princess look like me, that was a let down in my opinion. Plus it isn't memorable like at all
As someone born and raised in New Zealand, I couldn't agree with you more. They just like, completely left out all of the great history and rich culture of polynesian people. There are so, so many things they could have added to the benefit of the plot. Even just the fricking carving has such a dense story. Tattos? Yeah that's a thing for us. A bigger thing is carving. How amazing would it have been if Maui's island, instead of having tally marked rocks, had huge pillars showing his past and present anguish. I died a little when I heard all the broadway-esque music instead of the beautiful waiata these groups are known for.
Yeah, I'm new Zealand raised not Maori but I know a lot about the culture since they made a big move to teach it at school and it was so amazing to see that cause I was sitting there like OML I know what they mean, this movie actually good
as a mexican, coco was AMAZING for me. that movie showed the culture spot on and honestly is so important. Hispanic representation matters!!!!! there's not enough of it in mainstream media :(
I'm not expecting any more representation, really... at least not at this time. But I was so thankful that they did their research on the matter and depicted everything so perfectly, I really love el día de los muertos, and everything felt so close to home that I cry from the very begining xD
Why should USA make movies about mexicans though lol? I'm armenian and i don't demand americans to make a movie about us. Watch your own domestic movies
@@eepyc0re so? A lot of Armenians live in USA. You don't see them bitching about "not enough of my ppl on american tv". How pathetic. And Coco wasn't about mexican americans, it was about mexicans. The point is you don't have the right to tell USA they need to make movies about other cultures. If they get inspired by some other culture and make an entertaining movie - ok good. But they don't OWE ANYTHING to mexicans or anyone else.
Wait, people think Maui is overweight? Ok, ok, I understand how people can think that. He doesn't have a Dorito body, he has a brick. However, what some people forget is that not every strong person is going to have a 6 pack and every muscle in their body traceable. In fact, most men will never have a 6 pack relaxed, every picture of a 6 pack is from someone flexing. However, that excludes bodybuilders who go on stage, but they are often at their weakest during that time. They are dehydrated to keep their skin tight over their muscles. Maui is strong and well-muscled, but not defined. Now, I might be pulling this out of my ass, but I do also remember someone mentioning that Maui is based off the rock's father. The rock's dad was not defined, not every muscle in his body is outlined, but he is very strong and well-muscled. A much better portrayal of a strong person without the American body standard of needing a 6 pack to be considered strong. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
He's based off the rocks grandfather who was Samoan ,Toa Samoa! Anyways tho Us Polynesians still don't like it he's still massive like many stereotypes say we are when a lot of us are slim and muscular it just seemed like they were giving into stereotypes when they made Maui. plus the Rock's grandfather wasn't massive he has muscle
I think people see him as fat due to the obesity in Oceania (well, Samoa as far as I know. I'm Samoan and I hate to say it, but I've got some pretty big aunties and uncles, and the people on the islands are big too). But I completely agree. People thinkt hat "buff" means muscle, muscle, and more muscle.
i really just think it’s because of the way he’s depicted in their legends that they wanted a slimmer more defined version of Maui. But i agree that many people who are solid rock hard muscles aren’t Defined but from a cultural standpoint i 100% agree with the Polynesian people who wanted their culture depicted in a way that they made it.
Maui isn’t over weight, when you look at him move he doesn’t jiggle like fat, it’s all muscle but not like modern look where people work on definition it’s all size. A good example would be old school pro wrestler Peter Maivia, The Rocks grandfather. The Rock even talked about that misconception in interviews
Steven Dishongh plus, take into consideration that a lot of the men in Moana are designed more stout. Maoi is super stout but he’s not fat. He doesn’t have a gut. He’s just really *THICK**
As a Native Hawaiian, I love Moana as it is the first real representation we got from Disney since Lilo & Stitch and gave my nieces and her friends a princess they can actually relate to. However, I’m also aware of all the problems it has with the first and most obvious being that they took all of the cultures in the Pacific and just threw them together into a messy mix and kinda implied that we’re all the same. For the record, we are not. There is also the incorrect way they portrayed Maui’s personality, lack of real Polynesian lore in the storyline, and a bunch of other stuff that I’m too lazy to write out here. But I do believe that Disney can learn from these failures in Moana, and next time make a movie that focuses on one culture in the Pacific that actually uses the lore and history a bit more correctly.
I think they just didn't want to snow only one Polynesian culture and left out all the others. It wasn't because they think you're all the same. At least I think so
You know how I know Coco is a great movie? I watched it for the first time in Spanish class, with subtitles on, but from where I was sitting I couldn't see them. My understanding of the language is still pretty basic, too, so I really didn't know what people were saying for almost the entire movie. And yet, I felt happy where the movie wanted me to feel happy, I felt sad where I was supposed to be sad, I laughed when I was supposed to, felt a burning hatred of Ernesto de la Cruz when I was supposed to... This movie's fricking amazing and my family still refuses to watch it because of all the Mexican culture in it.
I did say it was it guess. It boils down to stereotypes in the end. When I think of Americans who might have reasons to superficially dislike Mexican culture, I think of the group that is politically opposed Mexico, which, currently is the right and by extension Trump.
They did blend in all the culteres together for moana i am a local and just wanna say that maui is hawaiian because he is someone that was a trckster maybe tough? But idk
@@anarch1.c yes but they were clearly trying to put both together and plus I may have forgot where maui came from but ik that my hawaiian teachers told us about this im not so sure
imo moanas biggest mistake is being too vague with its culture. like how frozen is vaguely nordic, maybe norwegian, could be danish, moanas also very vaguely polynesian, with parts of micronesia and melanesia and new zealand added in. coco is very definitely mexican, set in mexico, about mexico, so they can be a lot richer with culture. its hard to be rich with culture when your film is set literally anywhere in the entire pacific ocean.
Roenais it's definitely a step forward - any representation is better than none - but good god does it feel... handwavey? i'm not smart enough to accurately describe my thoughts but, as you said, it's just very vague in its culture, so it shows off and introduces a lot yet holds back so much. i'm a non culture enriched troglodyte, i'd absolutely adore to see disney go further in the future exploring the people and places that inspire and influence their movies. people like me can learn more, while those attached to the culture can see themselves more accurately displayed on the big screen.
Frozen is set in the 19th century, when all of the Scandinavian countries and cultures are very well established. It has no excuse for being so vague. Moana, on the other hand, is set BEFORE Polynesia, during that culture's dark ages. Moana isn't Polynesian; she's an ancestor of the Polynesians. If her culture is vague, it's because they wanted to incorporate elements from as many Polynesian islands as they could and then show ancient traditions that might have eventually become things like the hula or haka. Basically, the era Moana is set in has a built in safety feature that allows for relatively unoffensive creative liberty. Now, what would've been REALLY gutsy is to show a few people on Motonui with an obsession with clear-cutting forests and sculpting giant, half-buried stone people. There is something of an environmental message in Moana, but we don't actually see the people of Motonui acting as poor stewards. All exploring cultures (every single one) are much more prone to making very poor stewardship choices than cultures who tend to stay in one place, and it would've been very brave of Disney to use their token under-represented culture-of-the-year to demonstrate this fact.
That likely would have drawn far more protest from Polynesians than the Movie actually did though, as while they absolutely did that on many Islands, they rather dislike being reminded of it.
He isn't really, it's just the actual complexion a normal human being should have to have that much strenght. It's realistic, but because media have thaught us that "if you don't have a six pack, you are fat", that's why some people thought that he was fat.
Alexa Lopez So I’ve been told. My boyfriend is far more Mexican than me and grew up around the culture more than me. He also speaks Spanish whereas I was only taught the smallest bits and pieces such as numbers and colors before my grandfather passed away. When we watched Coco together he explained some of the jokes I probably wouldn’t have gotten without his help.
Wayward Doe yea I definitely think Coco was catered more to the Mexican audience and I am glad they did that instead of sugar coated everything to appeal for the American audience lol
When we saw it in Spanish, it was quite hilarious. When we saw it later in German, an awful lot fell flat. (I imagine English was at least better than German…)
It's not about whether it's an attack, but whether it would have been cool if it actually referenced Greek culture and mythology a bit more. And I think it would have been.
Honestly I heard way more racist things about Greece from other Europeans on r/Europe, a subreddit that I found to be more racist than r/Donald sometimes.
I'm kinda with Lindsay Ellis on this one-cultural appropriation is neutral without oppressive force to it. An American-made movie appropriating Greek culture is harmless, because not only has Greek culture never been systemically oppressed, it's been fucking ELEVATED. Nazis loved Greek culture! Victorians loved Greek culture! We act like it was the great beacon of Western Civilization, instead of Literally The Worst. No Greek-American person has ever been punished for practicing Traditional Greek Medicine. No Greek-American schoolchild has been hit with a ruler for speaking the Greek language, or for doodling an engraving of Zeus. Now, if it was a British movie about Polish folklore, there'd be more of an argument. But racism has different targets over the Atlantic. Greek people aren't really a race here.
Trickster doesn't necessarily mean bad guy. He did things like steal fire and trick his brothers into creating the islands. Yes, he tricked people, but it helped others. Hawaiian Superman is a song written by a Hawaiian that really explains this.
I will never be not amazed by just how much details Pixar puts into their movies , the whole setting of Coco was magical ,heck even when playing the guitar Michael wasn't just randomly strumming , every single cords were on point..
Coco also had a ton of Mexican people or people with Mexican heritage working on it. The co-director was Mexican. If you watch the behind-the-scenes material, there were animators, art directors, music coordinators, character designers, etc all with Mexican heritage. I'm sure all those eyes helped to correct any details that were either stereotypical or just plain wrong. They'd also know which "creative liberty" changes would be most egregious and which most Mexicans probably wouldn't care about.
as well as the in depth field studies they did, they had their whole team go down to mexico and study every aspect they could, something they didn't do nearly as long or in depth during Moana, not to mention the fact that it would be harder with Moana because they were depicting a historical period in Polynesian history.
The main complaint I've heard of other Mexicans looking back at the movie was that it was too pagan and not Catholic enough (essentially the whole thing about the afterlife not actually being Heaven rubbed off a lot of people the wrong way. 80+% of Mexicans are devout Catholics.)
@NesRua I'm mexican and Coco not being "catholic" enough seems like a bogus claim. Instead, I would complain that it isn't "pagan" enough, as Día de los Muertos is NOT a catholic tradition, but the heritage of our prehispanic roots, AKA Aztecas, Mexicas, etc. I would have loved if the afterlife world was more like Xibalbá, or Mictlan, and in the movie you can actually see some of the ruins of the temples, but I understand they were just playing it safe.
Jesús Reyes I'm also Mexican lmao. Also, the Day of the Dead is a Catholic tradition, not pagan. The day before, All Saint's Day, is a day of obligation for Catholics. Día de Muertos originated as a Catholic tradition. The sugar skulls were invented by Spaniards lmao.
I recall watching a short blerb about the writers of Moana interviewing Polynesian people on stories they’ve heard about Maui. Although he was described as an average-sized man they wanted him to be seen as a “larger than life” character because of all the things he’s done. The writers and character artists meant no harm when they designed Moana’s Maui to look large. And I say “large” because the first thought that popped into my head when I saw Maui is “damn, that’s a lot of muscle” not “damn, Disney made a stereotypical fat Polynesian character.”
Exactly. I honestly didn't even know people thought Maui was fast until this video. For me it was a mix of the art style where everything and everyone doesn't have many sharp lines or edges (everything is soft lines and round), and that Maui is an absolute UNIT. I just assumed that he had literally Godly levels of muscles.
I do understand what you mean but growing up when I heard this story of Maui it was of this average boy that did things no one had expected of him. The Maui in the movie felt strange, and when I saw him it wasn't the Maui I grew up hearing stories about, I am sure Disney meant no harm, and I see why they made him so large (I personally never thought he was fat but to each their own). I just think it would've been nice to see a more culturally accurate depiction of one of the most famous legends in Polynesian culture. Although, in saying that, I do admit that I think if they made him smaller he would probably fall to the stereotypical attractive male that is often depicted with Disney male leads so it's kind of a lose, lose situation.
Same, I never thought of Maui as fat, I see him as strong. I wasn't even aware it was a stereotype. Besides it was the Rock playing him so I thought Maui was partially based off the actor, especially because I've heard Disney's Maui described as "The Rock, but with hair".
I didn't even know he was a thing. I'm surprised, honestly. I know he's snarky and kind of funny, and he was a surprise to the audience for not being in the promos...maybe that's all it took?
@@MortalAnonymous Perhaps he is so over the top that he is perfect? I don't know. His animation was great though, but his whole scene felt like a "crocodile moment" to me
I’ve heard that it was only western audiences who thought Maui’s depiction was overly chubby - it was only hearsay but apparently his large figure and wild hair are considered powerful in Polynesian culture.
Coco - 97 rotten tomatoes Moana - 96 rotten tomatoes Coco - 2 oscars Moana - 0 oscars Coco - 807 million dollars Moana - 643 million Coco became the highest grossing film of all time in Mexico , the market it was supposed to be representing . [ up until infinity war broke it by a little bit the following year ]
As a native Greek I have to say that, despite what that newspaper article said, Hercules was pretty loved in Greece. Especially Hades, who is still loved by Greek Disney fans, but also the entire dubbing was iconic, likely because it was so close to the native culture. But apart from that, I admire its tone, and I think it's ridiculously genius how the muses were portrayed as African American gospel singers, inspired by the colour of the clay used for ancient Greek earthenware, which was actually a popular means of conveying a story in antiquity.
Maui is not overweight or obese, he is heavy set because that is a common body type in polynesian men. Many wrestlers and strong men also have this body type because muscle gain also requires fat gain. Maui is not built like today’s shrinkwrapped body builders because that wouldn’t be culturally relevent at the time and place Moana is set in
I figured as much, along with the way Nani in Lilo and Stitch was designed. Many people cite it as 'thick' but it's actually more accurate to how Polynesian women are shaped and honestly how women are shaped in general. I liked Nani because she's so far one of the few most realistically drawn women in the Disney franchise in terms of anatomy. In hindsight, I think that's why Tiana's design in princess and the frog always seemed...off-ish to me. Because while she's in full color in the film, remove it all and she looks like a cross between Bell and Aurora. While that may be great for animation purposes, it's not so great in the representation of multiple races and cultures.
I study animation and we study character designs. usually characters are build from shapes and different shapes have diffefent meanings. The more angular they are the more threatening they look. they just put maui in the friendlier shapes which is why he looks so rounded. He's not really obese or overweight because he's very muscular and he flexes every once in a while in the movie. People are just overreacting
@Aidan Maxwell They did once release a aline of toys called "Disney Heroes" (If my memory of seeing it on the Disney Wiki years ago is correct), using characters like Peter Pan, Hercules and even a few of the princes. Considering it's no longer around, I'm guessing it did not sell well.
i really hated disney making hades out to be a bad guy when he was the chillest god in all of the greek myths and zeus was the literal nightmare and the source of everyones problems and hera with her jealousy caused the rest. edit: this is the most likes ive ever gotten.
He did kidnap one girl to be fair. But he did it cause he wanted to marry her (I guess asking just didn't occur to him). And since she apparently eventually fell in love with him too, I'm thinking there's at least a... 75% chance there was no rape involved. Unlike every occasion Zeus found a girl mildly attractive.
@@MsLilly200 zeus got lucky with his boyfriend though, ganymede was the only lover that was granted immortalitity. Hera still wasnt happy, obviously. and no, there was no rape involved, which is suprising considering the culture of anchient greece, with their "women should be greatful to be raped" crap. Hades was a chill guy, and persephone- in all versions of the myth- got the best card in the entire deck, i mean, she could have ended up with apollo, but hes unlucky and shed probably wind up turned into something else, or she could have ended up with a man that would abuse her, but instead she got Hades, a man who genuinely loved her and wasnt a massive sack of shit. thats another problem with media when depicting hades. they make hades and persephones relationship really toxic and absuive, but hera and zeus' not? appearantly? in hercules why wasnt hera pissed beyond her wits? hercules isnt hers, zeus cheated on her to make him.
I'm pretty sure they changed pretty much everything for the Disney version of Hercules. It's not exactly a child friendly story. Iirc in the Disney version Hera was his mom. It certainly looked like it in the opening of the movie, and there was no other mom shown besides the woman who adopted him (with her husband) after he crashed superman-style onto earth.
I like Coco's message. It fools you with the message of "Follow your dreams, be who you want to be" but instead later tells you "Sometimes there are more important things"
CalveeTheFluffy Eevee And it also teaches about the toxicity surrounding fame and what some of the awful things ppl are willing to do to get it.
‘Seize your moment’
It's more like know how to compromise
The whole message of the movie, just like the whole point of El Día de los Muertos, is that the only thing that truly matters is family.
Roach DoggJR I’d say it’s more the ones you love or care about. For example, Hector wanted to go back to his family and Ernesto, his close friend, wanted to follow his dreams and went way too far in his pursuit.
Fun Fact: The song “La Llorona” that Emelda sings is actually a song.
Story: When my mom heard it in the movie theater she started crying because my deceased grandma used to play that song and sing it to her.
@@ralphdabadie4754 What the fuck. On a comment like this? No
@@bonk4225 Somebody said something and I called them out on it, so they deleted the comment
@@bonk4225 Ima be real with you, just something that wasn't appropriate to this. I dont remember it exactly, but yeah.
Tbh, this comment made my day, it's so heartwarming. Thank you for sharing!!
❌ Esmerelda
✔️ Emelda
Schaffrillas: and the winner is coc-
Tamatoa: *exists*
Schaffrillas:
*_P E R H A P S_*
Can I just say I really, really, really don't get this guy's obsession with that crab? Everyone I know (myself included) were completely turned off by that chracter - I, for example, was watching Moana on Netflix and literally turned the tv off when I saw it, it was just really awkward, cringy and childish.
I don't say this to denigrate anyone's opinion, but Moana and that character have been getting SUCH A HUGEEE mention and honor from this channel that I am really perplexed from - when did he explain why it was a huge cinematic feat? Never, yet on every single video he mentions it as one of the greatest Disney films ever. PLEASE EXPLAIN!!
Don't get Templar about it. Some people are just fucking meme machines.
Lucas Leanza you don't get it
@@lucasleanza9762 it isn't something logical you can easily get.
It just is.
@@lucasleanza9762 I dont really get it either
me and my friends (one of which was mexican) had time to kill at the mall so we decided to go watch coco and the mall theatre just to pass the time, and right before the movie started my mexican friend starting talking all this shit about how he was gonna cringe so hard at the movie and how it was probably gonna be insulting towards his culture, but let me tell by the first 25 minutes of the movie, my guy just sat there in silence and was just completely engrossed into it. when we finished, this guy had the biggest smile on his face and would not stop talking about how incredible this movie was. when he went home, he told his family who similarly thought Coco would be bad to watch the movie the very next day, and why all loved it.
That’s a cool story
Nice
My boyfriend cried when he first watched the movie, and he told me it looked just like Mexico and Coco reminded him of his grandmother who passed a couple years ago. He still cries actually when we watch it.
@@TheIinLiyzz even though I watched the movie like 63 times (not lying) it still is a good movie
I’ve never seen my dad cry until we watched coco together. Man, I love that movie.
Coco: culture is actually integral to the story and the plot
Moana: setting
Yeah but
Giant crab
*TOMATOA BABY*
Joram Rascon tomato
Considering that Moana is a take on what happened during "The Long Pause," (and a take good enough to make a pretty good official future Polynesian folktale imo,) I cannot help but feel that the Polynesian influence on the setting and plot are a bit more significant than Scaff gave it credit for...
@@GrahamChapman Yes exactly, the only reason coco feels richer is because it focuses on one culture. While Moana is more of a culmination of many Polynesian futures (which was very well researched btw) in order to explain The Long Pause.
Thats not fat. That's buff as hell. His muscles just aren't super defined
We call that "hoss cat" body type in Appalachia. Someone whose strong and sturdy and you dont want to catch them in a bad mood.
Actually, his muscles aren't super dehydrated.
aminoapps.com/c/moana-9916041/amp/blog/maui-is-not-obese/qkmV_gJPfRuBNoo2o5KmB5BJkG054xaQRXZ
This person on this amino tells it pretty fittingly
Yes. If you want defined muscles, you have to eat like that. Proteins, etc, you know, workout diet. Maui looks like he has a lot of muscle, but isn't defined as hell, because he isn't on a workout diet, he's just chillin' being super buff
mara mara and also you forgot one thing *its a simple art style*
For Moana it felt more like she was a girl looking for her dream who just HAPPENED to be Polynesian.
Allie Snoëa I think it’s important to have both you know? I’m Latina and although I very proud of where I came from, my language, my culture....it also isn’t the only thing about me. So it should be a mix of stories of minorities who happen to be minorities doing really cool stuff and also stories based around the culture.
Culture or where you come from shouldn't happen, nothing should be based on a culture itself, but rather the people who go through the story and adventure
I could be wrong, but isn't moana specifically about polynesian culture or whatever? (can't think of the exact word)
@@dollchomp The storyline draws from some general Polynesian mythology I think, and they use languages from several specific Polynesian cultures in one of the songs is all I know.
@@kittkatkitty1 I get what you're saying in the sense that race shouldn't be the only trait in a character, but us Polynesians are extremely under-represented in television and media. Like all we really have is 'Lilo and Stitch', Dwayne Johnson, and Taika Waititi.
Everyone in my family was so happy to see that there was a major film being released that was going to showcase our heritage and culture, but when we went to see it in cinemas it felt like an "...oh" moment; really disappointing and underwhelming.
The whole story was based around Polynesian culture and mythology, but then the only things in the film that reflected that was 1) the first 15-20 minutes of the film and 2) 'You're Welcome', then the rest of the movie takes place in the middle of the pacific or on an unhabited island.
hercules wasn't accurate mostly because they didn't want it to be R 18
@Michael Richards 😭😭😭 pls wtf
@@catsneeze ?
Deadass didn’t Hera make Heracles go crazy and kill his whole family?
Are Hercules and Heracles the same
@IAN HEINE Not to mention Hercules is the offspring of incest.
"pixar and disney both do their research, they have attention to detail"
*disney releases mulan 2020*
Well that was a remake, which we all know are terrible. The only good thing out of any of them was Will Smith as a Genie for Aladdin.
I hate all live action movies. Like just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
@@mariejoseph8929 what about 101 Dalmatians? They did that one back in the early 2000s and I think it went pretty well. (Except I still haven't seen the original cartoon, so I'm probs not the best judge)
@@virginiasultana3654 I think he's talking about the recent ones, like Lion Kind, Dumbo, Beauty and the Beast, etc. They just feel unnecessary and usually never add anything to the original besides the live-action visuals.
@Cactus Juice Yeah no, totally. Will Smith was a total beast, and didn't try to copy the excellent and perfect performance of Mr.Williams. Which is great, he ended up actually being the most likeable part of the movie.
Mexico loved Coco so much it was screened again a year later during Day of the Dead. This year probably will be the same.
lol yeah, the government even put out ads abt how we should be proud the world loves our culture so much lmao
Honestly my family down in Mexico lost their shit when it came out
V XXIII it's the highest grossing film in Mexico's history, I believe.
@@luis_zuniga yep, and did mind-blowingly well in china
V XXIII Someone asked their tío for a pastel de coco, but the tio hadn’t watched the movie and brought and actual pastel de shredded coco
the broadway feel in moana probably comes from the fact that the guy who wrote the songs (lin-manuel miranda) also wrote hamilton, in the heights, and 21 chump street.
Shayla Mazer point made.
True
Great songs true, buuut if I was to be cynical:
Hamilton was really popular around the time along with other works by Lin, so most likely a whole lotta people knew him. Possibly Disney using him to rake in more audience?
He literally Sings a song in moana
@@girlyweirdo4658 considering disney paid 75 million for the rights to release the hamilton stage recording.... yeah probably
As a fellow greek man I can agree that Hercules isn’t that accurate and my biggest gripe with most representations of Hades is that he’s often portrayed as a bad guy but in mythology he’s actually one of the better gods. He does his job and doesn’t fuck around with mortal lives nearly as much as the rest of the pantheon.
That being said Hades is fucking hilarious in the movie and is the best Disney villain ever. 10/10 would love for James Woods to be hades in the live action remake we will eventually get. Just give me a line incorporating the word Malaka from Phil and give me a lamb Souvlaki
I know, like Zeus is an asshole and Hera is worse.
Hades is a chill guy, mostly.
@@hailpickens2454 he really is, but does have his limits. Idk if you’ve read the Percy Jackson books but that series has probably the best representation of Hades.
@@zerotohero1483 Percy Jackson books are one of the most accurate representations of greek mythology on pop culture, but it still have it's fair share of slips
@@izzyyyyy8998 true
@@izzyyyyy8998 Which ones if you don't mind me asking?
My Mexican mom adores “Coco” and she says it reminds her of her old home. Also, Papa Julio looks like every older Mexican dad/uncle/grandpa so Pixar really did do their homework to make this movie work.
Awww ❤
Agreed. Looks like my abuelito as well.
Wow, I'm polynesian and now I wish Pixar had made Moana. There were a lot of things that came across as inauthentic when I watched Moana and I could tell it was made by pakeha/palagi.
Mama Coco looks exactly like my great grandmother before she passed away, from the dress to the braided pig tails. Because of that, this movie made me feel like I was Miguel going through this adventure. It made the ending so much more emotional for me.
my family also loves Coco and we all screamed when we saw Ernesto being literally a homage of one of the oldest and most iconic artist: Pedro Infante, it just shows how much research there was and it made us all feel so giddy and happy even when the ending made us cry!
me watching the mama coco scene in coco: I won't cry
Miguel: **pulls out guitar**
Me: **sobbing**
Miguel is good at pulling out
@@thatonedude9269 he's 10
@@lillianaoneal9231 yeah, pulling out his guitar
@@thatonedude9269 it sounded so dirty tho
@@lillianaoneal9231 your fault for thinking that way
Big Difference...
Disney: Believe in your dreams… While going on a fantasy adventure with cute sidekicks and living happily ever after
Pixar: finding yourself… While living in a cold hard reality mixed with finding simple pleasures/adventuresin every day, normal life.
@The Movie Guy
I like mixing both for the extra kick in the gut and pet on the back.
I’m just describing how people in general usually view both Disney and Pixar. Personally, I love both animation Studios.
The scene in Coco where Miguel says that he doesn’t want more tamales and his abuelita gives him the “do not reject my food” face is pure gold
Happens all the time!!!!
When he is about to sing to the mariachi and his abuelita starts beating the guy while saying sth like "stay away from my miguelito pequeñito angelito" i just lost it
Omg yes. Am not even Mexican and I can relate. In greece we have the classic " greek grandma™️" . She will make u eat anything she makes. You'll gain at least 10 pounds after visiting her
@@Raegan_In_Your_Pants same in Asianculture
@@RK-ig8gc I guess all grandmas are like that . Pretty cool
@@Raegan_In_Your_Pants was about to say that seems to be just a grandma thing in general.
As a mexican, I agree that Coco needed more giant, singing crabs.
But then again, that's every movie.
Get deported on crab rave
As another Mexican, I also agree
Agreed fellow Hispanic
As another another Mexican I agree
Keep this at 666 likes
The only elaborate adult joke in Disney is when Anna said “size doesn’t matter”
Anna tells Christoph that he looks better in leather
Kristoff also asks Anna about Hans for his "foot size".
And that "You look better in leather" thing
To be honest the Lilo and Stitch franchise is really underrated and they had some of the best cultural learning moments when it comes to Disney. I noticed a lot more as I got older but they quietly addressed some major cultural issues. High price of living, pandering to tourists, racism against Hawaiians, assimalation, poverty, lack of job security, geographic isolation, etc. Moana addressed Polynesian cultural history and beautifully done. Lilo and Stitch really brought attention to the current cultural climate for a lot of Pacific Island nations.
yeah wasn't the whole thing of Lilo taking pictures at tourists a way of showing in reverse how the hawaiians are most of the time treated as an exotic rarity or just another prop to photograph? but then again i think they cut the scene where this is explicated out the movie and we all know why so yeah
Yes!
@@briciolaa they also cut out a scene that was outright showing the racisms A tourist says "Oh look a real island native!" and another tourist says "Hey, do you know english! Which way's the beach?"
and a lot of the music is in Hawaiian and was written around when Hawaii was being forcefully inaugurated.
@@doodle7342 i wished they kept them in! it would have been much better to learn this when i was younger
"overweight"
Yeah nah mate, that's actually just functional muscle. My boyfriend is a literal lumberjack and he has a build p similar to Maui's, just a hair taller. Homeboy can launch me like a toothpick.
That brown face costume is def a big ol yikes tho lmao
But the problem is that maui in the legends didn't look like that.
@@froggy9822 It's just a visual representation of him having inhuman strength. It doesn't matter if he doesn't look exactly like in the original legends.
@@SirQuadrat i mean, i get what you're saying, but it kinda does matter, since they are pulling Maui from polynesian culture, and probably could have represented him and other stuff a tad better
@@SirQuadrat There are a lot of way to portrait inhuman strength without making him looks like Incredible Hulk man-pregnated Wreck-It Ralph then dropped the baby face first on concrete floor.
Look at all the top strongmen ever. Zydrunas Savickas, Brian Shaw, Hafthor Bjornsson etc... All fat af
Pixar: "Let's create a beautiful movie full of emotions"
Disney: "Let's create a beautiful movie full of merchandise"
Illumination Studio: "Let's create merchandise"
Underrated Comment
full of merchandise
Sony(sometimes):let's make money
Dreamworks: Let's create
*face palm* did you really forget about TOY STORY
Imagine coco... but one of the spirit animals is a certain giant shiny glowing crab...
That's his labrihe lol
U just gave me a great idea for mi university project of alebrijes xd
Los alebrijes no son spirit animals xd
I really feel connected to this idea
Alibrije: al-ih-bree-hay
Labrihe: ?????
Putting all of this aside, can we just appreciate how breathtakingly gorgeous the art was in both movies?
You can say that again!
The petals in Coco were gorgeous, and that's just my favorite part of the animation. The water in Moana was awesome, and Moana's hair not to mention. Both are very lively and fun stylistically speaking, but I will always prefer Coco
@@iKnowaNoah i think the tribal tattoos from moana were really a good touch
Absolutely! Moana and Coco were both amazing to me because of the astounding visuals. Also being someone who has attended many funerals, Coco had me really emotional by the end of it 😢 but it was so worth it!
i really adore the land of the dead and the skeleton designs in coco.
I just want to say that Maui doesn't looks fat at all, he's a big strong man, strong as people who lift
oh god your pfp is giving me flashbacks lmao
yeah but i can see why maui could be seen as a stereotypical islander, as a samoan person it honestly doesn't really bother me although i can see why other polys have a problem with it.
welll duh maui is litreally a FOB🥱🥱🥱we’re big and fat
Here’s a cool life hack: watch Coco entirely in Spanish or at least just the songs cause they are much better that way
one of my friends and i did that a while back! since i'm going through with my Spanish classes all thee way to AP i wanted to get a better understanding of both the movie and the language and it actually worked so well
Also, so many songs from other Disney movies end up better in Spanish. Or French. Or a lot of other languages.
The Spanish versions of the Coco songs are definitely the best.
I’ve never watched it in English and I refuse too. It just flows way better in Spanish in my opinion
Yes and the reason is because they used actual Mexican singers who have been the music business for years in the Spanish version.
Coco in spanish is top tier
have people who called maui “overweight” seen an actual muscular body builder? no, not the ones hollywood casts and muscle models. I mean actual body builders who compete in actual strength competitions. those dudes are HUGE.
Yeah Maui just looked massively buff to me. I have a feeling nobody really thought he was fat and some reporter just needed a boost in their click rate.
Yeah I didn't understand that controversy either because he has always looked muscular to me
ive seen polynesian men who have similar bodies and they are big and muscular as heck, my 5'3 self is scared
Typically fighters are top heavy and have a big square build, so that’s what I saw when Maui was first shown. He seemed muscular and strong, so I don’t really see how someone would say that he’s fat.
I live in New Zealand (a pacific country) and before Moana was released Maui was slim and only 18 years old so I feel kind of offended by Moana
Miguel's abuelita saying he's as skinny as a stick and demanding he eat more is 1000% my abuelita so that alone gave Coco points for me. I also found it very nice to hear the random spanish they threw out just as a bilingual family would do.
Ya coco is my favorite Pixar movie not only is it one of the only mainstream representations of a beautiful culture but it is also a great movie
pretty sure that is just a grandma thing in general
If you’re fluent in Spanish, I recommend you watch Coco 100% in Spanish. It’s 10x’s better!
@@cristinitao yea its one of the only disney/pixar/etc movies i actually prefer in spanish
Yeah that's not only a Spanish grandma typa thing you know
Moana did have one big Cultural song it was "We know the way" and a lot of the background music is traditional but I agree that Coco knocks it out of the water in that respect
We Know the Way is (in my opinion) the BEST song in Moana.
@@t.rae.storyteller I wholeheartedly agree!
on god bro, i was so happy when i heard samoan in that song since we got no media rep outside nz, and the media rep we get in nz is usually on the police channels 💀💀
@@t.rae.storyteller 💯
Scaff: Points out misrepresentation on Hercules for an extended time
Emperor Cuzco: *Nervous Laughter*
....*Kuzco
not helping your point there, bud
I mean, the real city is spelled Cuzco, so 🤔🤔🤔
@ yeah but they obviously weren't talking about the place, and the character is Kuzco.
@@metta6947 My point is, the name of the character comes from the city, and they didn't get it right.
@ Pretty sure Disney just changed it so if you googled "Kuzco" the first thing that would come up is the character rather than the city. I don't think a major corporation working on a movie would accidentally misspell it.
As someone who's lived in that culture for most of my life, Coco was downright surreal how "real", for lack of a better word, it was to me. Not just accurate, but actually real, little details that almost felt like they came from my childhood projected onto the big screen.
That's something I've never experienced from a movie before, especially not a Pixar/Disney movie.
authentic?
Yea I love how Pixar actually does their research, gets to know the actual people in the culture, and WANTS to portray the culture in a realistic way. Disney puts little hints of their culture but then the movie is full of Western musical numbers and pop culture references. Which is fine, but if you're going to portray a culture I feel that you should respect the culture.
same dude, same
Mhm, that scene where the grandma is running around with the chancla was awesome. Those tamales looked like real tamales and not to mention they referenced El Santo of all people. Like who other than older Mexican folk would even known of El Santo?
Same, I have some of those family members which was really weird watching it
That dude was fat?
Really?
He looked like he was stylistically buff as hell.
at first glance his proportions are super chunky but he's not actually fat, just built like a pile of bricks. definitely larger than life.
Raith- I'm surprised none of the Maui naysayers didn't get branded "fatphobic". But seriously, Yeah he's not even fat. He's just muscular and thick. He kinda reminded me of those strongman competitors.
He has a similar build as the Mountain from GOT, which is certainly not a bad thing
Listen, Maui is THICC KING
@@MargaretRodriguez9GenY I, a weird asian person, thought he was fat at first, I don't think it was done right to show muscle.
In defense of Moana... I went to see it in theaters with a group of only poly friends (i was in their Polynesian dance troupe) and they were excited and commenting throughout the movie on how accurate to the stories they grew up with as kids many of the characters and stories within the film itself were. It was cool to hear their comments as someone who has little to no knowledge on a lot of their culture.
They also did have a lot of their soundtrack done by Te Vaka, a super popular Tokelaun group 😄
Oh crap they didn't get offended? Do better next time :D
@@Leo___________ weirdo
Yup. Always the white liberals that want to virtue signal and get offended on everyone's behalf.
You also got to take into account that these two studios, although they’re the same company, have different target demographics.
Disney primary target demographic is children and they’re secondary target demographic is teens and young adults. They use bright flashy colors and extremely catchy songs that appeal to children a lot more, while also having a few underlining themes and somewhat deep story that appeal to teens and young adults.
Pixar’s primary target demographic , on the other hand, is teens and young adults while they’re secondary target demographic is children. They have extremely deep story’s and a lot of underlining themes that appeal to teens and young adults, all wrapped in a colorful cartoon, with a few upbeat catchy songs throw in occasionally, which appeals to children.
How could you say something so profound yet so obvious at the same time?
*Cars has entered the chat*
*their
*stories
Still agree though.
Connor Barker *The Good Dinosaur has entered the chat*
Connor Barker
I’m pretty sure The Lion King is pretty deep thematic-wise even when it’s targeted to children.
Maui is not overweight, his body is built like a strongman, his body is for function not looks, he could snap a stereotypical “buff” dude
Thank you!!! I've met SO many Tongan and Islander men in general here in the Bay who are literally just built like that!
Except most of our myths describe him as a slender youth, who is not allowed to join his more accomplished older brothers in their quests. That's why a lot of polynesians disliked his concept design, it was like doing a film about David and Goliath and David is as big and buff as Goliath.
The chorizo joke hit my family like a truck and we wonder how it was in English
Well for us English, it flew right over our head.
@@toastarkat well... It's like soup in the way it's food... But it's nothing near like soup, sooo nope.
In German they just changed it to sausage and so there was barely a joke there. Just slight awkwardness coz hes embarassed about dying from sausage
I got it, but then the US is pretty exposed to Mexican culture in general, at least where I live.
White American who eats a lot of chorizo because it's delicious. I laughed my ass off.
Coco got Frida Kahlo wrong. She was not an ego maniac. She painted what she felt, and if she felt like her ex husband only liked the Mexican side of her, she would paint that. I found this on "The wounded deer" "At the lower-left corner, the artist wrote down the word "Carma", which means "destiny" or "fate". Just like her other self-portraits, in this painting Frida expressed the sadness that she cannot change her own fate. Frida used her pet deer "Granizo" as the model when she painted this portrait."
She also had a pet deer and at least one monkey!!
Yeah, I loved the movie but that part really disappointed me.
I didn’t really feel like the movie portrayed her as an ego maniac. Just eccentric
@@rashotcake6945(PARAPHRASED) "The dancers-who are *me*-crawl onto a cactus-who is also *me*..."
@@carmenmercedes9903 yes she’s extensively including herself in her own artwork in the movie but considering the weirdness of it all, it doesn’t seem like something that her character is doing to make herself look good. Looking like a cactus or crawling like a bunch of spiders isn’t very flattering. So instead, it just comes across to me as eccentric rather than egotistical, as i said before. Plus, her being nice to Miguel and being willing to take feedback from Miguel makes her character seem kind rather than narcissistic. At least, that’s how her portrayal personally felt to me
@@rashotcake6945 I never said she's narcissistic. Maybe self-absorbed would be a better way to put it.
Just wanted to mention that, while Lee Unkrich did direct Coco, the story came from Adrian Molina, the co-director, who is Latino and was inspired in part by his own upbringing and experiences when he created the story. So to say that Coco's successful representation of Mexican culture was thanks to research on the part of Lee Unkrich isn't quite accurate. I think it's also worth mentioning the emphasis that Pixar puts on the idea that "the best stories are inspired by real experiences." Adrian was inspired by his own experiences and culture, which, in my opinion, is why Coco is so powerful, genuine, and of course culturally aware. Just wanted to throw that out there :)
It makes sense, i kept thinking only someone who lived all of this could come up with something so truthful and genuine.
It was confusing to me how Coco could feel so on point compared to say, a Pocahontas.
I have actually cried every single time I have watched Coco. I'm not a cry-person, at all. But still. Every. Single. Time. Remember me is just too powerful for my manly finnish soul.
I have watched Coco at LEAST 6 times due to it being my favorite movie. I cried *thrice* every single time I did.
this is facts
Sameeee
It's the part where Hector remembers singing Remember Me to Coco. I honestly had to pause for a second to sob because it was so beautiful
I will ALWAYS cry for remember me 😭 😭
I think Lilo and Stitch should be involved in this discussion.
Absolutely, it should.
HELL YEAH
The culture is both key too the film and also neglected. It’s weird as hell lol
The Book of Life is the actual relevant topic to this discussion.
When Nani got fired from the restaurant, she even called the lua (I forget how you spell it) a “fake”
I love this comparison! I'm half Samoan and was so excited to see Moana, and while I like a lot of things about it, you're absolutely right about how Polynesian culture was pretty much just a tool for Disney to say "see? ~Diversity/cultural exploration~" without really putting in the work. Like you said, the story was not at all contingent on any aspect of Polynesian culture other than having folklore. Honestly - especially with characters like Tamatoa, Te Fiti, & the Kakamora - it seemed more like a fantasy/magical movie that just happened to contain islander elements.
Also, the soundtrack is nice but it was also really disappointing.
on god im full samoan and the song we know the way hittin diff when u understand the words
You got samoan in your veins
Sorry rock reference
But um... As far as I know, Te Fiti is based on a real goddess named Hine-nui-te-po and Cacamora areva thing too
The two things that bother me most is the way the take a wide range of interconnected cultures and just act like there's no distinction between them. They make it seem like Hawaiian, Tahitian, Samoan and Maori culture are all the same and don't need to be preserved as separate cultures. The other thing is copyrighting the word Moana. The audacity.
I like coco because people actually have reasons to be singing.
I've never got the complaint that Maui is shown as supposedly overweight. He's not. He's shown as an enormous caricatured tank of muscle. He ripples those muscles frequently throughout the movie, makes the tattoo character dance as he hops his pecs around. And he's directly modelled on The Rock's grandfather. Look him up, he's basically exactly the same but without the tattoos. They tried to really make Maui look awesome. Maybe some people interpreted it differently from how they intended, and maybe the caricaturing didn't quite land, but they weren't trying to make this deity of Polynesian culture out to be a fat lazy slob by any means.
@Psy Duck For real, like my faincé is definitely on the chubbier side but I've seen the man lift an average size refrigerator by himself, squishiness doesn't equal strength lol
From what i heard mauis bodytype was more natural body muscle mass than ripped body building, and he also looked similar to the rock's granddad who was also a strong guy (i think it was grandpa not 100% sure)
Ironically, people who say he looks like a slob are just applying THEIR western-centric ideals to the character
I thought it was cool that Disney portrayed Maui with a different body type than what you would typically associate with a physically fit and strong person (slim waist & defined muscles). In all reality, those body types aren't nearly as strong or have the amount of endurance than someone like Maui would have.
@Psy Duck spoilers:
*ahem* Endgame Thor
flushed away is the best representation of british culture
This just made my day 😂
100%
BHAHAHAH SCREAMING
Feels bad that flushed away is "the" British themed film. I kinda have brave I guess.
@@lostkin4910 flushed aways a classic film wys, managed to showcase key parts of british/mainly english culture in a good tone with pretty decent humour. yeah its a rat who got flushed down the bog but its still a quality film. theres probably others that are a better showcase but in my current film experience flushed aways the best one ive found
I absolutely LOVED coco, most of the time when people try to include Hispanic culture, it’s usually still very stereotypical. So it was refreshing to see Mexican culture shown in the right way, and I’m not even Mexican. I really hope other Hispanic countries will also get representation and culture shown
Yes but remember “Polynesian culture” isn’t just one culture. Hawaiian culture and traditions can have huge discrepancies from the Maori culture in New Zealand, not to mention the thousands of islands in between. Whoever made the movie ( yes let’s put aside allll of Disney’s flaws first) may have a hard time landing on one specific culture or the overall Polynesian, the (mis)representation can likely offense a lot and mislead children. this video does a good job in reminding us to study and learn more about a represented culture from all sources and not just a single (corporate) film.
Yes!!! I remember being around 9 or 10 when Moana came out, having seen it in theatres with my parents, and my mom, being Samoan, was also understandably excited.
I'd keep whispering to her if things were accurate and if a song was in Samoan, and during "We Know The Way," she mentioned that the first verse was Samoan, the second verse Tongan. She also mentioned some of the culture seen on the island wasn't entirely Samoan, either. Moana mixes different Polynesian cultures into this one movie, but I figure the creators got lost between it all, so maybe that's why she was on the ocean almost the entire time. Because it's hard to take all these different, yet similar cultures and blend it together without being confused.
And I don't blame them, I get Tokelau and Samoan mixed up now and then whenever I hear em 😵
I agree as a new Zealander myself you have explained it the same way I would
@@ktw5574 The movie is also set in obviously largely pre colonization times, given that the ancestors ship are still seaworthy mayby somewhere between the 11th 15th century, probably at a time where different islands had less separated cultures (like French and Spanish culture became different the further you get from the end of the roman empire). besides since it's disconnected from a specific historical and cultural setting (beside pre columbian polynesian) I can understand the generalisation here, the tale is not so much about polynesian history as much as about adventure and self discovery. I don't blame the hunchback for not being a perfect depiction of the french society at that time either for exemple. OverallI think it is a step in the right direction, putting in the spotlight a rarely shown culture (except lilo and stich which i loved)
As a Samoan New Zealander I have to agree! Traditions definitely vary in every small island nation. I think while Polynesian culture could have had more of an impact on the storyline, the way the filmmakers represented our culture as a whole (rather than just making Moana come from a specific Pacific Island country) was well done. I heard Samoan, Tokelauean, and Hawaiian in one song, which was mind-blowing to me at the time lol and all the PI's were buzzing about it when it came out
@@ktw5574 bruh when we were in theaters and we know the way came on, my mom (tongan) kept translating the lyrics and i kept having to shush her bc she was so loud lmfaooo
I honestly like Coco more the Moana. Coco was just way more memorable to me.
Persephone Hades LOL the culture is so on point.
Persephone Hades Same, I never felt emotionally invested in the storyline during Moana 😶
Honestly, me too. I watched Moana and had a good time, but I only saw it once and it didn't elicit any particularly strong emotions.
I watched Coco and loved it. The music, the characters, the world, and the character growth. From a scared 12 year old who learns to place his family above himself, to a jaded wife who overcomes a century of hatred. It was so unique, and I cried like a babe at the end.
I feel the same! Coco was emotional and sweet and I felt like almost every minute of it was a treat. Moana, however, didn't do much for me. I had fun with it while I watched it, but then promptly kinda forgot about it. It didn't leave a big impact on me like Coco did.
Schaffrillas mentioned all the reasons he didn't like Coco as much as Moana, which is totally fine. Different strokes for different folks. But I didn't care about the things he mentioned because lots of comedy is not a make or break for me. I don't mind more serious movies. And I didn't mind the "lack of tension" in the start because the movie was using that time to establish emotions, character interactions, and a lot of beautiful scenery and culture. I loved it.
samee
Moana was written by a corporate focus group.
Coco was written by an actual Mexican.
That's the main difference I think.
.......Taika Waitit is maori tho?
@@koro8gin True, but it's also Disney and this was prior to Jojo Rabbit, so he likely couldn't take as many risks as he did with Jojo Rabbit.
Anyway it's ironic for folks to attack him for "normalizing fascism" when he's a mixed-race Jew who works for Disney, probably one of the most hated demographics by fascists.
@@koro8gin He didn't actually write the movie, though, he wrote a draft early in development and left the project. There was a Polynesian advisor group which is cool but it undeniably not exactly a Polynesian story, it's a cookie-cutter Disney story
@@pridemoth_ as a maori person I can confirm to you that this is a polynesian story, everything down to the 2000 year 'long pause' in voyaging was accurate to polynesian history and culture. Just because it was written by a white hand doesn't fault it's accuracy, the original story was written by a maori man, and different peoples of polynesian descent gave their incite towards the oveall making of the film.
Honestly notice how the only people advocating for cultural accuracy within moana are non-polynesians. Of course these films aren't going to follow a 100% true story, these are Hollywood blockbusters. I don't see the same people complaining about the obviously made up story of a young mexican boy going to the afterlife to meet his deceased family.
@@ashkitt7719 i still dont get that he didn't normalize shit its just through a childs perspective
I remember seeing Coco for the first time in San Ysidro, a city directly bordering Mexico, with my Mexican family in a theater FULL of Latinos. The whole theater cracked up at jokes like the abuela throwing the chancla and the chorizó gag, and cried at the end when Miguel brought the photo back to Mama Coco (who happens to look JUST LIKE my deceased great grandmother, Nana Lupita). My grandmother ended up seeing the movie 3 times, and our local theaters screened the movie in English AND Spanish. I also remember recently rewatching Princess and the Frog with my Black friend, seeing her recite every word to the scenes with young Tiana & her family, and laughing with her at the gumbo bit. She explained that she knew it by heart because she watched it over and over as a young Black girl, just like my family had gone back again and again to see Coco. Representation matters! There’s so many different types of people out there in the world, all with beautiful, rich, complex stories to tell, and showcasing those perspectives just makes for better storytelling. The infusion of jazz into Princess in the Frog (though it is VERY flawed) and the celebration of mariachi in Coco just serves to make these movies BETTER & more musically distinct from other Disney/Pixar classics.
As a Norwegian teen, I want to say that Disney didn’t do much research on Norwegian history/culture when they made Frozen~
Edit: first of all- wow, didn’t expect to get 4K likes
And second of all, yes Frozen is set in a Norwegian-inspired kingdom, the castle is inspired by stav kirker and Akershus festning, and the town of Bergen~ Anna, Elsa, Olaf, Kristoff and Hans are really common Norwegian/Scandinavian (or even just Germanic) names. And the northern people in the sequel are heavily based on the Samí-people living in North- Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia. Anna’s dress from the first movie is based on traditional Norwegian dresses, I personally see it as a Frankenstein of all the dresses and I hate it :)
There was history/culture in the Frozen?
Yeah like why in the world was there a black person in Frozen 2? Thats historically inaccurate
@@spaghetti8338 Don't worry the new little mermaid has it covered
@@Ally5141 that's really stupid, forced diversity ruins a movie. Mermaids are European myths. That's like a white man playing in African myths/legends.
Spaghetti It felt somewhat out of place for me too until I got curious enough researched the topic: Denmark-Norway participated in the slave trade, meaning some Nobels kept African slaves during the 1700 and first half of 1800. The black man in Frozen 2 is likely based on a young boy named Adam that arrived from St. Croix to Arendal (fun fact: Arendell is based on Arendal) in 1778. He escaped, but later returned to the slave owner. He was put on trial, but the judge decided Adam should be freed.
The story of Frozen takes place in 1840, after Denmark-Norway abolished slavery for good in 1803, meaning the black man in Frozen would be a free man. I doubt black people had it as easy during that time period as depicted in Frozen 2, people weren’t kind back in the day, but this is a Disney movie we are talking about, I doubt they will ever dare explore such gritty topics in one of their movies.
I’ll leave the link to the Wikipedia page and it’s sources down below if you’d like to read for yourself, but it’s in Norwegian though :)
no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansk-norsk_slavehandel#cite_note-11
I have a Mexican grandma and Miguel’s grandma was just so similar to her it was legit scary, even his great grandma was so similar
There isstoryI love where the directors talk about how they would show earlier drafts to Mexican community leaders to make sure they got things right, and the gave the grandma a rolling pin. and the leaders said: "no no no, grandma hits us with her shoe."
That part where she started smothering miguel at the plaza, only to completely ballistic the next second is so similar to my mom that its horrifying
With the Mexican version, one of the guys just called up his abulita and she voiced the character
I'm a Polynesian and my grandma looks so much like Moana's grandma it is ridiculous! Love her to bits x cried my eyes out during the movie lmao.
@@angellozano1938 she was literally every woman in my family (im mexican hehe)
Quick remark about people getting upset that Maui is portrayed as fat: he is not. He is absolutely not.
The way he is portrayed (solid stomach, no six pack, not 100 Kilos of muscles per arm) is the most accurate to legitimate strength you can get. Hollywood and Bodybuilder culture's got you brainwashed into thinking more muscles=more strength, but muscles are unnecessary and oftentimes even restrictive accessories. Most people with mountains for legs and arms couldn’t even complete a strongman's warm-up and would start panting like dying dogs. Look at strongmen, while we are at it. Do they fit in your typical "oh he’s got no defined muscles, that means he is purely made of fat"? Yes. Could they still snap your spine with their small toe? Also yes.
Tl;dr: Maui's not fat. He’s the closest to strong a human (or in this instance, demigod) can be, physically.
Yep. He doesn't have a six pack because you have to have a low amount of body fat to do that and it's just not feasible for most people who actually go out and do stuff.
@@renoloverxoxo
Hollywood actors also have to dehydrate themselves to lose water weight to make themselves super defined.
It's like these people never saw a real fat human to compare u.u
I was looking for this comment exactly, thank you.
Yes! Just look at Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, the strongest man in 2018.
hot take but Coco was hilarious and I freaking died when the guy said "my mini fridge? my good napkins? my FEMUR where is my FEMUR"
Hopefully you cried when he disappeared
that dude was funny. rip whoever hes supposed to represent
Actually Hercules has one greek reference. There is one scene that Phil says “two words. I am retired!” In English it’s three but in greek it’s “Είμαι συνταξιούχος!” which is two.
Did you know that Hercules is his Roman name? In Greece, his name is Heracles not much of a difference, but I just wanted to point that out.
Kaylena Does things yeah i know, I’m actually greek.
Δεν ειχα ιδεα οτι αυτος ηταν Ελληνας δε φαινεται καθολου απο την προφορα του
Jim Tsiamis Ναι ρε ουτε εγω, νομιζω απλα μεγαλωσε αμερικη και τα αγγλικα ειναι η πρωτη γλωσσα του. Μπορει να εχει γονιο ελληνα ιδκ
@@lektergod2280 Ναι αυτο μπορει να ειναι
my mom is puerto rican, and when we watched coco at home and the chorizo part came up she said-- "he choked on a wHAT-"
Jajajaja
OKAY NOW THAT YOU SAY THAT I GET IT JSJ
Yeah my mom said the same thing we are also Puerto Rican.
Yep, my Grandpa who is a Spainard lost his shit too.
I had to pause the movie cause I was laughing too hard
Hercules is the kidzbop version of greek mythology
Don't insult Hercules like that lol
@@InquisitorThomas i meaan, Hades did kidnap Persephone, but thats not the worst thing a greek god has done.
I think actually Zeus is the most evil one.
Like literally! He took fire from man, he fucks women disguised as animals, their husbands or something else.
He's an awful god.
@@littlebitches more like Persephone was curious and fell down a hole and ate food even though she was told not do or she'll be in the underworld forever (except every spring?? I think) ... at least that's how I have always heard it
Inquisitor Thomas I wouldn't say it's poor, if you came into a Disney movie expecting a serious historically accurate retelling of anything, you've come to the wrong movie. They are inspired by stories and cultures often, from Hercules to Hamlet, and then have a lot of creative liberties to build their own world and story from. It's not lazy or poor quality, it's just focused very differently, has a different motive and for a different audience. It's definitely not a historical movie because it doesn't want to be, it wants to be its own canon, in the same way Pixar goes "what would toys do if they were alive" Disney went "what if we made Greek Gods alive in a jazzy "kiddy" mix of past and present culture, how would they act and how would it change?" Though in part I would agree about one thing- they can learn a little more about cultural representation both real world ones and generally building richly communicated ones into their film (real or not), but every film seems to be getting better
Yes
Y'know that "chocked on a chorizo" joke, I speak Spanish, and a pp joke wasn't my first initial thought was that they were making fun of the, "death by food" kind of thing.
Also Maui's not overweight and people are stupid. He had real muscles, like how strong men have, not glamour muscles like body builders. He doesn't jiggle at all, he's a solid mass of muscle
I like your Doctor Who picture. Okay, bye.
Us Polynesians still don't like it he's still massive like many stereotypes say we are when a lot of us are slim and muscular it just seemed like they were giving into stereotypes when they made Maui. Toa Samoa that's all
You could say the same for coco
@@THE_GORILLAGUY_VR So, because some people think most polynesian are wide (which is true, polynesian being favored in that way by bone structure and genetics) it become a bad thing to portray a character, whom happens to be polynesian, as wide?
@@arthurbordet8754 No, it became a bad thing to portray a skinny and muscular character as wide. Maui was skinny before moana came out, I guess thats the problem people have with it.
Oh good gods Hercules really confused me. Why is Zeus a good guy. Why is Zeus a good guy. Why. Why.
The actual question is: why is Hera a good guy? In the actual myth, she tried to kill Hercules...multiple times..
@@Alkiviadis_ plus dont forget that hercules was the roman name for his actual greek name: Heracles (like the beetle) Because hera was trying to kill him on several occasion, but survived
@@pifilixxiv3192 Ηρακλής to be exact
@@Alkiviadis_ I don't read Greek...
WHY DOES ZEUS LOVE HERA? WHYYYYYY???????
Hi, Pacific Islander here 👋🏾
My whole life I've been interested in my Samoan culture, and I remember being unbelievably excited hearing about Moana when it came out. Yes, it's mostly set out on the ocean, but what's being forgotten is that voyaging was, in fact, a giant part of our culture. That's what my ancestors did, they set out on voyages, they used to the stars as a map, and Maui was part of the legends.
I do agree that it could have been executed much better, the dolls were most definitely...darker than you'd expect, but it was still enjoyable.
Although, I feel like most attention for Moana comes from the fact that Lin worked on music, and sang in two songs, one of them in the end credits. That's my problem with Moana, or the audience at least. Because I remember going through the comments on Moana-related videos and it _only_ being about Hamilton, the Pacific Islander comments near the bottom. So Disney kind of won, but also messed up with that one.
But also, as a comment on here said, Polynesian culture is more than _one culture._ There's a lot of islands, and although some cultures and languages may sound the same (an example is Tokelauan and Samoan), they're also different in their own ways. So combining all of these cultures together might have been difficult, considering they have to pack it into a one hour movie.
Coco accomplished Mexican culture because that's the only culture they were focusing on. Moana is more of a difficult subject with culture, because it's a vast majority of different ones.
You can tell Lin and whoever else wrote the music tried to incorporate different languages, with the opening song being in Samoan, "An Innocent Warrior" in Tokelauan (I think), and "We Know The Way" having Samoan for the first verse, Tongan in the second. There's other cultures (I'm saying this alot but I'm terrible at describing shit sorry), but those are the _main_ ones featured and given a glimpse at in Moana.
It must've been difficult trying to combine the other cultures into the movie without it confusing the audience or possibly getting something very wrong, so that's one reason why the movie could've taken place in the water the whole time. Because, especially when it's not your culture/a culture that's _rarely_ represented, research isn't always going to be enough, let alone trying to represent multiple cultures yourself.
I still think Moana was a fantastic movie and that not enough people talk about it. And it's obviously going to hold a special place in my heart because that's my people, with their own movie made by _Disney._
This is a great explanation. I liked that the film raised my interest in Polynesian cultures. I've never met any Polynesians so all I know is from what I've seen online and in films & tv. If they make Moana 2, I just hope they make the songs that are sung in Polynesian languages a lot longer.
Thanks for the explanation and opinion, that was interesting to read 🙂
Do you think they should have focused on just one Polynesian culture or do you think it was a good idea to amalgamate them so that all Polynesians could be at least somewhat represented?
Also I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the fact that Disney can now cash in on every culture it chooses to represent. It kind of seems like a downside to representation, especially by a giant like Disney. I always kind of think the worst type of cultural appropriation is when members of a powerful/oppressive culture capitalize on oppressed/marginalized cultures by commercializing those cultures, eg. a massive US corporation like Disney profiting off of selling little plastic models of Moana’s wa’a kaulua while so many Polynesian nations still experience striking poverty after colonialism, or profiting off of their little Día de los Muertos plaza at Disneyland while Mexicans suffer from extreme poverty in Mexico and discrimination and cruel immigration enforcement in the US.
Sorry, I didn’t mean for that to be such a downer. I just feel like the representation in these movies is getting better and better and it’s really cool but there’s always the subsequent cash grab of merchandising that kind of negates Disney’s attempts at progressivism. I think it could only be solved if the people profiting off of that merchandising (and the films themselves) were the people being depicted in the films.
@@bonesandhearts5683 No, no! It's all good, I'm glad you shared your insights!
As far as Polynesian culture representation, I think it's good they chose to try and incorporate different ones, being as, again, the Polynesian/Pacific Islander culture is really underrepresented and not talked about that much, especially in modern day America. I mean hey, it's better than just saying "Hawaiians are the only Polynesians!"
I personally think that after the Disney Renaissance, the company clearly began to grow. But as they started doing CGI and whatnot, they started focusing more on the franchise rather than making a good movie. That's why Ralph Breaks The Internet was such a flop. They knew they didn't have to try because it'd appeal to younger children anyway, which means more "I want this toy, I want that," and more purchases on merchandise and whatever.
Although, I do 100% see your point with the representation part. How many Polynesian cultures still struggle after the colonization, and how Mexican/Hispanic immigrants are being treated at the border. And to that I'll simply say;
Do I think representation of underrated cultures is good? Absolutely! Especially if you have younger children watching, it might help them learn something. Do I think profiting off of the project is bad? No, it just depends on how you approach it (i.e not whitewashing darker skinned characters, not making toys look offensive, etc). But do I think doing all this and choosing NOT to speak out/try to help these struggling cultures that you've represented is bad? In a way, yes. I understand Disney has different parts to take over, considering how big of a company it is. Whether it be maintaining Disney World/Land Parks, budgeting out movies, advertisement, etc. That takes a lot. But I think they should still try and help these countries they're putting on the big screen, because many people will see these places and go touring, ignoring the big issue that may be happening that they're unaware of, you know?
There's two sides to every story, and I like to stay open-minded. And in this case, you're making absolutely great points. Sorry I didn't reply sooner btw
KT W Thanks so much for replying 😊
I should give you fair warning that I’m...not a big fan of capitalism. Like I think modern racism was invented to further capitalism and that Disney will never really be a net positive for the world in terms of ending global injustices as long as it’s a corporate giant and the means of production remain un-seized 😬. The workers gotta grab those wacom cintiqs, y’know?
But like, regardless, marginalized people need to be represented in media. I totally support that. And, while we’re stuck with global capitalism, I think what would make the cash-grabbiness of these movies and merchandise better would be if the people making the movies and selling the merchandise were members of those cultures. Like not just the voice actors or the consultants or the directors or the screenwriters, but like the people actually making bank off of this stuff. Like representation in media shouldn’t just refer to who’s being portrayed, but also who is producing the media. Basically I think it would be better if these films and merchandise were products of the places they represent. Like, Disney movies and merch are all products of the US and any profits made off of them end up contributing to the US GDP. I think it would be better if Disney was partnered with an actual Samoan or Mexican animation studio and if they just kind of used their influence and reach to help produce something that would ultimately be a product of Mexico/Samoa and contribute to the Mexican/Samoan GDP.
Also the things you mentioned about people seeing the movies and touring the places but not being aware of the larger issues - I think that’s a great point. On the one hand, at least tourism could be a way that the places/cultures depicted in these films can profit off of the movies. On the other hand, it’s a disservice if tourists aren’t aware of the problems people living there actually face. That’s actually one of the reasons I liked Lilo and Stitch: it does perpetuate the “Hawaiians are the only Polynesians” trope, but at least it actually does depict some of the issues native Hawaiians have to deal with, including ignorant white tourists. You’ve got Lilo feeling like an outsider in the place and culture she’s from (eg. when the white girls in her hula class ostracize her), you’ve got money issues that force Nani to work at a tourist trap and Lilo to entertain tourists for cash, you’ve got state interference in Nani and Lilo’s lives (ie. the scary social worker threatening to take Lilo away)...idk it’s actually surprisingly good.
That said, I don’t think every Disney movie that features marginalized people should be about their struggles. I like that Moana and Coco are triumphant portrayals of their respective cultures. I do think it’s good to have that mix though; having some movies like Lilo and Stitch might help with the ignorant tourist issue.
Sorry this is so freaking long and rambling. You just made me think is all 😊
I completely agree with you and so appreciate the thoughtfulness of your responses here! I am half-Tahitian. I think one of the things the creator of this video is not considering is how Polynesians are not really represented in popular media, at least not in the US. We aren't taught about Polynesian history the way we learn about Greek history in school, and we aren't exposed to Polynesian traditions the way we might see Mexicans in our community celebrate important days such as Dia de los Muertos. We are truly a minority. When I say I was born in Tahiti, most people have no idea where or what that is. Other than the Rock and a few specific films, Americans don't have the chance to learn about us, and so this film had a huge task in educating people about our culture in a way that was digestable and didn't take away from the story. It seemed to also feel the pressure to represent all of us, which I personally thought was cool, but again, a huge task.
It felt as though the qualities to the story that were specifically Polynesian were very clear to Polynesians, such as Mama Tala coming back as a manta ray...the fact that Moana, as a woman, was chief is another, as pre-colonization, Polynesian cultures were egalitarian and not the patriarchal structure we see now...even the little things like tatau, taro, the siva or ori, the tiare flowers in the background. There were a lot of Polynesian details there if you knew what to look for. I felt that they tried to weave the traditions of Polynesia into the story, but the knowledge base on the culture would need a more solid base for it to register the way that the cultural pieces of Coco did. That being said, I do think Coco did a way more effective job at representing Mexican culture than Moana did, and it makes me wonder if they would have been more successful if they had "picked a lane" and just made Moana a specific Polynesian culture.
I personally would have loved if they made the story more a deal where she traveled around Polynesia, learning from each group of people, instead of with those stupid monsters and the kakamora, which def were not represented well at all!
3:15
Live-action version coming 2052
Well that aged well.
The sexual tension between Schaff and tomatoa makes me borderline uncomfortable
You called it out
who
schaff... you okay...?.... it's just a crab...
I really really REALLY don’t get why he’s so into the crab and shiny song. Is there some video where he actually, clearly explains it???
@@melTAMU11 Not very thoroughly, but watch his top 30 villain songs video. It's a quick explanation, but a very clear & to the point one.
Legit, watching Coco in theaters for the first time. There was an audio error with the film and you just heard static during the short. That was more entertaining than the short itself.
Viva
iconic
I don't think that was an error I think that was an employee trying to save you.
@@plbster he sabotaged the movie took a risk for his career, just to save these viewers... what a hero
Mathor Sionur that employee should get the noble prize.
Hector: Sings to daughter.
Ernesto: Swippy swine, that song is mine!
This dude simping over Tamatoa gives me life
Coco is actually pretty underrated imo, even though it was successful. I noticed this when it won best original song and everyone started to call it overrated immediately. The song is great and literally plays a role in the story.
Exactly!!! It's so sad... I hope one day is considered for what it is, regardless of own tastes, that is, one of the best movies *EVER* because it is an Absolute Masterpiece, a true work of art, one of the very few milestones of cinema, a marvel for the eyes, the heart and the soul, something simply indescribable in words, because there are no positive adjectives to describe it! 😢💜
Flower Soul well god damn 😅👌🏼. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but the movie did do so many things well. The music, pacing, character relationships, and emotional resonance where all on point. Definitely up there with Pixar’s best films at the very least.
Yes, I imagined that it wouldn't be exactly that for you (I felt it, because this is what few people think, from what I read), but I wanted to say what I thought... I think certainly surpasses all the Pixar movies (and I love them all eh) and is one of the best movies that exist, because I find it has an exceptional writing (of history and characters), which has a lot (but really a lot) of complex issues and well nestled between them as a puzzle of 1000 pieces assembled perfectly, the songs are exceptional (not to mention "Remember Me", which is the song that feels most part of the movie and has various levels of reading, even if all the others are and are beautiful), the soundtrack, the characters, colors, atmosphere, setting and graphics are crazy, it's very moving and transmits emotions of all kinds as very few movies can do (and personally, never any movie has excited and moved me so much, despite my crazy love for the animation and the cinema, and despite being a very emotional, sensitive and empathetic person), has some plot twists that make you say "Ah, oh my God", it makes you think a lot, is very faithful to Mexican culture, has a beautiful universal story where everyone can relate, a rhythm that never falls (on the contrary), is full of details, is very deep, complex, nuanced and dares a lot, has wonderful morals, helps you so much in so many things, it's both sad and joyful, it feels very real even though it's also a fantasy, it's full of contrasts, which however work perfectly, has a vibrant direction and set design, it also has a flood of movie genres in itself, and I could go on for hours... for all that, I think is a complete, perfect movie that has literally shocked me, never believing I can see something like that, in a movie that then lasts neither two hours! I know it's a very unpopular thought, but I'm sure of all this and I think it's a very very underrated movie, unfortunately... this movie needs more love and understanding, this is more than certain! You think that for me it *also* had to win, at least, the Oscar as "Best Picture" and "Best Soundtrack"! 😢
@@flowersoul6894 hss a bad villian coco is never in any danger cause he has his whole deceassed family to back him up.why the fuck would his grandmother keep a picture of him if he has breaked their hearts,and if he truly belives he did nothing wrong then why does his mother hate music and how does he keep the fascist music hating regime
@rick johnson Forgive me, but I didn't understand very well what you mean (really) 😕
"Remember Me" is getting a bunch of people crying over in my class for some reason-
I'm that people-
I was sobbing during class watching the movie skldgshg
It shouldn't even be a question why people would cry over that, that part, every second of it, was the most emotional I've been in any animated movie. Jesus christ even the teacher, who watched it three times, balls her eyes out when that moment came into the TV
@@hellojello7545 Four words:
*Leaves from the vine.*
@@crawdaunt5691 falling so slow
Also Coco is the only movie I can think of with a good spanish dub.
Seriously I refuse to listen to Un Poco Loco in english.
Si, las canciones se sienten como si en español fuera la versión original
@@josefagomezschmeisser8356
Lo son... Las versiónes en inglés son las adaptaciones... XD
The songs do sound way better in Spanish. I watched this in a Spanish course and even though I didn't learn a word of Spanish in that class I liked the songs much more in Spanish. The cringe of the songs in English just made me really uncomfortable, I don't know why. They should have used the Spanish versions of the songs in every language.
I love _Coco_ music in Spanish, but I watch the movie in English because I'm not Hispanic. And what's cool about the soundtrack for the English version is that the music is either bilingual (certain parts are in English, and others are in Spanish) or entirely in Spanish. IDK, I really like that detail, I guess.
They have the same voice actor for Hector in English and Spanish and it makes it all the better bc I LOVE his voice
9:19
Pixar: **Makes four movies where the main characters are toys**
and they're all great
as a Mexican American person, thank you for making this video because i think you are completely right. Coco does in incredible job at showcasing our culture, our food, our music, and our language. I never get to see that kind of representation and it made me so happy to see characters that i could relate too. Coco is one of my favorite pixar movies and it makes me cry every time that i watch it.
I can agree with you, especially since I am also a Mexican American.
I agree, I’m tired of seeing TV basically say “Mexico has..... tacos and sombreros.” all the time
@Jane Twomey Not bad, but in my opinion the romance triangle kind of gets in the way of the purpose of Dia los Muertos.
@@KL-ki8db true, but coco and the book of life are both incredible movies (in my opinion), i just see coco as a family type of movie and the book of life as a romance type of movie. either way, both represent mexican culture and i feel so proud to be mexican.
@@Cynthia-il8ju Yeah, I just kind of get tired of the triangle romance cliche, but it is still a good movie.
*Saying that the princess and the frog wasn't memorable* I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that
I haven't seen it in years but I still remember it and how much I loved it, so same
I haven't seen it since I was a kid and only vaguely remember that the villain turns the prince in to a frog and I believe that when she kisses the prince she is turned in to a frog too, but to be fair, I haven't seen it since I was a kid...
i truly respect this comment and your profile picture. god bless tsukiyama shuu (and my man facilier)
It really isn't. If you cut out all the frog stuff and the stupid firefly stuff, then it's fine.
@@barbaro267 If you cut out all the frog stuff.... From The Princess and the Frog...
*“It’s not the best, but it is my favorite”*
I like how you made a distinction between the two
That's because there is a distinction
evil dead 2 is my favorite movie, it is not even close to the best movie
+Darth Godzilla Yeah, but not everybody makes it.
An opinion and quality are 2 different things
The part they got right the most in Moana was "We Know the Way", where they have the voyagers singing in their preferred dialect, aka the only one they know, and have a different singer song the part in English, which I like a lot.
I’m sorry, I would still put Coco a half mile ahead of Moana
I really didn’t enjoy Moana I felt it was super boring. But Coco was absolutely amazing for me
Same, I might be biased bc I'm Mexican but the plot was way more interesting and had a lot of depth, the story went beyond the 'kid following his passion' story but focused on family dynamics as well--a topic that is HUGE in Hispanic culture-- and integrated it within the culture in a way that people of all walks of life could relate to.
I felt moana's story was severely lacking in that depth that going into the cultural world further would have provided and replaced it with shiny characters to fluff up the plot and give it Broadway appeal.
Though I liked moana I left the theater disappointed by the near surface level integration of such a beautiful culture.
I related to much to coco, it made me smile because it was so accurate of mexican culture, as a mexican, coco is my close second favorite Disney film (Pixar is owned by Disney) first favorite is princess and the frog
TheSaxRunner05, I’d say they are equal in quality
@@lunchbagmermaid4590 I've basically memorized the plot of Moana. When I was younger, my siblings and we would try to sing the instrumental version of songs. AND WE WOULD DO IT PERFECTLY. So, yeah. I'm kind of biased against Moana. .-.
Both made me laugh but only Coco made me cry. Coco I think is far superior.
It made me cry. Laugh not so much.
I feel biased for loving Coco more.. but seriously the feels in Coco.
I cried for both. I cried when the grandma died and came back in Moana(she’s my favorite character besides Tomatoa). I cried during Coco when Miguel started singing Remember Me to his grandma.
Coco was full of forced sadness. And did you seriously cry over it? -_- Your probably one of those annoying shits in Pixar movies that always cry and it's so annoying and I can never hear the damn dialogue you privileged white suburban kid
@@Emerardostay away from Vegas cause, literally everything you betted on was inaccurate. Lol.
OH YOU DID NOT JUST DISS PRINCESS AND THE FROG LIKE THAT
I FUCKING LOVE THAT MOVIE! IT'S SO GOOD
FOR REAL. LIKE BRUH.
i KNOW
THE DISRESPECT
celeste aguilar it wasn't a good movie tho. How are they gonna have the first black princess be a frog for the majority of the movie? As an African-American girl that grew up not having a Disney princess look like me, that was a let down in my opinion. Plus it isn't memorable like at all
As someone born and raised in New Zealand, I couldn't agree with you more. They just like, completely left out all of the great history and rich culture of polynesian people. There are so, so many things they could have added to the benefit of the plot. Even just the fricking carving has such a dense story. Tattos? Yeah that's a thing for us. A bigger thing is carving. How amazing would it have been if Maui's island, instead of having tally marked rocks, had huge pillars showing his past and present anguish. I died a little when I heard all the broadway-esque music instead of the beautiful waiata these groups are known for.
Sounded waiata to me.
Although I'm not Polynesian soooo.......
Yeah, I'm new Zealand raised not Maori but I know a lot about the culture since they made a big move to teach it at school and it was so amazing to see that cause I was sitting there like OML I know what they mean, this movie actually good
as a mexican, coco was AMAZING for me. that movie showed the culture spot on and honestly is so important. Hispanic representation matters!!!!! there's not enough of it in mainstream media :(
We’ve all learnt that mainstream media isn’t all the best...
I'm not expecting any more representation, really... at least not at this time. But I was so thankful that they did their research on the matter and depicted everything so perfectly, I really love el día de los muertos, and everything felt so close to home that I cry from the very begining xD
Why should USA make movies about mexicans though lol? I'm armenian and i don't demand americans to make a movie about us. Watch your own domestic movies
S t a r F a l l I live in America, where we're supposed to be diverse. your logic is flawed
@@eepyc0re so? A lot of Armenians live in USA. You don't see them bitching about "not enough of my ppl on american tv". How pathetic. And Coco wasn't about mexican americans, it was about mexicans. The point is you don't have the right to tell USA they need to make movies about other cultures. If they get inspired by some other culture and make an entertaining movie - ok good. But they don't OWE ANYTHING to mexicans or anyone else.
Wait, people think Maui is overweight?
Ok, ok, I understand how people can think that. He doesn't have a Dorito body, he has a brick. However, what some people forget is that not every strong person is going to have a 6 pack and every muscle in their body traceable. In fact, most men will never have a 6 pack relaxed, every picture of a 6 pack is from someone flexing. However, that excludes bodybuilders who go on stage, but they are often at their weakest during that time. They are dehydrated to keep their skin tight over their muscles.
Maui is strong and well-muscled, but not defined.
Now, I might be pulling this out of my ass, but I do also remember someone mentioning that Maui is based off the rock's father. The rock's dad was not defined, not every muscle in his body is outlined, but he is very strong and well-muscled. A much better portrayal of a strong person without the American body standard of needing a 6 pack to be considered strong.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
He's based off the rocks grandfather who was Samoan ,Toa Samoa! Anyways tho Us Polynesians still don't like it he's still massive like many stereotypes say we are when a lot of us are slim and muscular it just seemed like they were giving into stereotypes when they made Maui. plus the Rock's grandfather wasn't massive he has muscle
@@THE_GORILLAGUY_VR I'm Samoan and I'm okay with him being a big bulky dude. Hell I like that he's such a big and lovable showoff.
@@THE_GORILLAGUY_VR maui historically was kinda a runt anyway so idk why they based it off the rocks dad
I think people see him as fat due to the obesity in Oceania (well, Samoa as far as I know. I'm Samoan and I hate to say it, but I've got some pretty big aunties and uncles, and the people on the islands are big too). But I completely agree. People thinkt hat "buff" means muscle, muscle, and more muscle.
i really just think it’s because of the way he’s depicted in their legends that they wanted a slimmer more defined version of Maui. But i agree that many people who are solid rock hard muscles aren’t Defined but from a cultural standpoint i 100% agree with the Polynesian people who wanted their culture depicted in a way that they made it.
Maui isn’t over weight, when you look at him move he doesn’t jiggle like fat, it’s all muscle but not like modern look where people work on definition it’s all size. A good example would be old school pro wrestler Peter Maivia, The Rocks grandfather. The Rock even talked about that misconception in interviews
Steven Dishongh Exactly Maui is well built and in incredible shape, most of his fat is muscle so he’s hardly obese
Steven Dishongh plus, take into consideration that a lot of the men in Moana are designed more stout. Maoi is super stout but he’s not fat. He doesn’t have a gut. He’s just really *THICK**
@@piratesfan123 Like sumo wrestlers. They're fat but also fit and swole behind all that fat.
Samoans are good example of that
Hes built like a lot if polynesian guys. They arent skinny but its not fat either. Its kinda like fat around muscle.
As a Native Hawaiian, I love Moana as it is the first real representation we got from Disney since Lilo & Stitch and gave my nieces and her friends a princess they can actually relate to. However, I’m also aware of all the problems it has with the first and most obvious being that they took all of the cultures in the Pacific and just threw them together into a messy mix and kinda implied that we’re all the same. For the record, we are not. There is also the incorrect way they portrayed Maui’s personality, lack of real Polynesian lore in the storyline, and a bunch of other stuff that I’m too lazy to write out here.
But I do believe that Disney can learn from these failures in Moana, and next time make a movie that focuses on one culture in the Pacific that actually uses the lore and history a bit more correctly.
I think they just didn't want to snow only one Polynesian culture and left out all the others. It wasn't because they think you're all the same. At least I think so
You know how I know Coco is a great movie?
I watched it for the first time in Spanish class, with subtitles on, but from where I was sitting I couldn't see them. My understanding of the language is still pretty basic, too, so I really didn't know what people were saying for almost the entire movie. And yet, I felt happy where the movie wanted me to feel happy, I felt sad where I was supposed to be sad, I laughed when I was supposed to, felt a burning hatred of Ernesto de la Cruz when I was supposed to...
This movie's fricking amazing and my family still refuses to watch it because of all the Mexican culture in it.
Umm. I can guess two reasons at least:
Trump Supporters
I did say it was it guess.
It boils down to stereotypes in the end.
When I think of Americans who might have reasons to superficially dislike Mexican culture, I think of the group that is politically opposed Mexico, which, currently is the right and by extension Trump.
^a fine example of who really digs into the politics, and another who simply echoes hearsay
Zachary Sazama because racism
@@joshualin5476 shut
A lot of Polynesians had actual complaints with Moana as the movie just blended all their cultures together, but they overlooked it for representation
They did blend in all the culteres together for moana i am a local and just wanna say that maui is hawaiian because he is someone that was a trckster maybe tough? But idk
Uw U aren’t they representing mostly Somoan culture?
@@anarch1.c yes but they were clearly trying to put both together and plus I may have forgot where maui came from but ik that my hawaiian teachers told us about this im not so sure
Probably inevitable for we group them together as 'polynesian' in the first place
imo moanas biggest mistake is being too vague with its culture. like how frozen is vaguely nordic, maybe norwegian, could be danish, moanas also very vaguely polynesian, with parts of micronesia and melanesia and new zealand added in. coco is very definitely mexican, set in mexico, about mexico, so they can be a lot richer with culture. its hard to be rich with culture when your film is set literally anywhere in the entire pacific ocean.
Roenais it's definitely a step forward - any representation is better than none - but good god does it feel... handwavey? i'm not smart enough to accurately describe my thoughts but, as you said, it's just very vague in its culture, so it shows off and introduces a lot yet holds back so much. i'm a non culture enriched troglodyte, i'd absolutely adore to see disney go further in the future exploring the people and places that inspire and influence their movies. people like me can learn more, while those attached to the culture can see themselves more accurately displayed on the big screen.
definitely. as a kid i didnt know frozen was supposed to be nordic until like. 2 years later when someone told me.
Frozen is set in the 19th century, when all of the Scandinavian countries and cultures are very well established. It has no excuse for being so vague. Moana, on the other hand, is set BEFORE Polynesia, during that culture's dark ages. Moana isn't Polynesian; she's an ancestor of the Polynesians. If her culture is vague, it's because they wanted to incorporate elements from as many Polynesian islands as they could and then show ancient traditions that might have eventually become things like the hula or haka. Basically, the era Moana is set in has a built in safety feature that allows for relatively unoffensive creative liberty.
Now, what would've been REALLY gutsy is to show a few people on Motonui with an obsession with clear-cutting forests and sculpting giant, half-buried stone people. There is something of an environmental message in Moana, but we don't actually see the people of Motonui acting as poor stewards. All exploring cultures (every single one) are much more prone to making very poor stewardship choices than cultures who tend to stay in one place, and it would've been very brave of Disney to use their token under-represented culture-of-the-year to demonstrate this fact.
That likely would have drawn far more protest from Polynesians than the Movie actually did though, as while they absolutely did that on many Islands, they rather dislike being reminded of it.
frozen was supposed to represent norway, but i dont think it was done that well.
I didnt actually notice Maui being overweight. I tought he was just muscular...
he isnt overweight
*Maui*
maui
@@foiibaddiix whatever
He isn't really, it's just the actual complexion a normal human being should have to have that much strenght. It's realistic, but because media have thaught us that "if you don't have a six pack, you are fat", that's why some people thought that he was fat.
Coco is way funnier if you’re Mexican and watch it in Spanish and get all the jokes lol
Alexa Lopez So I’ve been told. My boyfriend is far more Mexican than me and grew up around the culture more than me. He also speaks Spanish whereas I was only taught the smallest bits and pieces such as numbers and colors before my grandfather passed away. When we watched Coco together he explained some of the jokes I probably wouldn’t have gotten without his help.
Wayward Doe yea I definitely think Coco was catered more to the Mexican audience and I am glad they did that instead of sugar coated everything to appeal for the American audience lol
When we saw it in Spanish, it was quite hilarious. When we saw it later in German, an awful lot fell flat. (I imagine English was at least better than German…)
Alexa Lopez everything is better in Spanish, there is more humor in Spanish audio😂
and so am i
I thought the whole cultural appropriation thing with Hercules was just supposed to be purely comedic, and not an attack on Greek culture.
I mean yeah but it still doesn't make it a good thing.
Same thoughts.
It's not about whether it's an attack, but whether it would have been cool if it actually referenced Greek culture and mythology a bit more. And I think it would have been.
Honestly I heard way more racist things about Greece from other Europeans on r/Europe, a subreddit that I found to be more racist than r/Donald sometimes.
I'm kinda with Lindsay Ellis on this one-cultural appropriation is neutral without oppressive force to it. An American-made movie appropriating Greek culture is harmless, because not only has Greek culture never been systemically oppressed, it's been fucking ELEVATED. Nazis loved Greek culture! Victorians loved Greek culture! We act like it was the great beacon of Western Civilization, instead of Literally The Worst. No Greek-American person has ever been punished for practicing Traditional Greek Medicine. No Greek-American schoolchild has been hit with a ruler for speaking the Greek language, or for doodling an engraving of Zeus.
Now, if it was a British movie about Polish folklore, there'd be more of an argument. But racism has different targets over the Atlantic. Greek people aren't really a race here.
Maui was a trickster god. He wasn’t exactly the embodiment of nobility.
So we could’ve gotten the Polynesian version of Loki and we got a god who needs to grow into what real courage and heroism is.
932ForeverLove They tried to do that.
Why didn’t they follow through with it?! One of her obstacles could’ve been outsmarting Maui!
Trickster doesn't necessarily mean bad guy. He did things like steal fire and trick his brothers into creating the islands. Yes, he tricked people, but it helped others. Hawaiian Superman is a song written by a Hawaiian that really explains this.
Maui was a trickster god, but he was not a cruel one...
I will never be not amazed by just how much details Pixar puts into their movies , the whole setting of Coco was magical ,heck even when playing the guitar Michael wasn't just randomly strumming , every single cords were on point..
Coco also had a ton of Mexican people or people with Mexican heritage working on it. The co-director was Mexican. If you watch the behind-the-scenes material, there were animators, art directors, music coordinators, character designers, etc all with Mexican heritage. I'm sure all those eyes helped to correct any details that were either stereotypical or just plain wrong. They'd also know which "creative liberty" changes would be most egregious and which most Mexicans probably wouldn't care about.
readergrl56 I think they had a board of Polynesians on Moana too but yeah with so many Mexican people involved it’s more likely to be correct
as well as the in depth field studies they did, they had their whole team go down to mexico and study every aspect they could, something they didn't do nearly as long or in depth during Moana, not to mention the fact that it would be harder with Moana because they were depicting a historical period in Polynesian history.
The main complaint I've heard of other Mexicans looking back at the movie was that it was too pagan and not Catholic enough (essentially the whole thing about the afterlife not actually being Heaven rubbed off a lot of people the wrong way. 80+% of Mexicans are devout Catholics.)
@NesRua I'm mexican and Coco not being "catholic" enough seems like a bogus claim. Instead, I would complain that it isn't "pagan" enough, as Día de los Muertos is NOT a catholic tradition, but the heritage of our prehispanic roots, AKA Aztecas, Mexicas, etc. I would have loved if the afterlife world was more like Xibalbá, or Mictlan, and in the movie you can actually see some of the ruins of the temples, but I understand they were just playing it safe.
Jesús Reyes I'm also Mexican lmao. Also, the Day of the Dead is a Catholic tradition, not pagan. The day before, All Saint's Day, is a day of obligation for Catholics. Día de Muertos originated as a Catholic tradition. The sugar skulls were invented by Spaniards lmao.
I recall watching a short blerb about the writers of Moana interviewing Polynesian people on stories they’ve heard about Maui. Although he was described as an average-sized man they wanted him to be seen as a “larger than life” character because of all the things he’s done. The writers and character artists meant no harm when they designed Moana’s Maui to look large. And I say “large” because the first thought that popped into my head when I saw Maui is “damn, that’s a lot of muscle” not “damn, Disney made a stereotypical fat Polynesian character.”
Exactly. I honestly didn't even know people thought Maui was fast until this video. For me it was a mix of the art style where everything and everyone doesn't have many sharp lines or edges (everything is soft lines and round), and that Maui is an absolute UNIT. I just assumed that he had literally Godly levels of muscles.
His proportions are more realistic and useful for actual strength rather than just cosmetic purposes
Same for the Maui like why did he think he was fat that dude just had some muscle milk
I do understand what you mean but growing up when I heard this story of Maui it was of this average boy that did things no one had expected of him. The Maui in the movie felt strange, and when I saw him it wasn't the Maui I grew up hearing stories about, I am sure Disney meant no harm, and I see why they made him so large (I personally never thought he was fat but to each their own). I just think it would've been nice to see a more culturally accurate depiction of one of the most famous legends in Polynesian culture. Although, in saying that, I do admit that I think if they made him smaller he would probably fall to the stereotypical attractive male that is often depicted with Disney male leads so it's kind of a lose, lose situation.
Same, I never thought of Maui as fat, I see him as strong. I wasn't even aware it was a stereotype.
Besides it was the Rock playing him so I thought Maui was partially based off the actor, especially because I've heard Disney's Maui described as "The Rock, but with hair".
"The shiny"
Yes, we know you love him and his ultra catchy song.
The gary
EpicPinkCreeper I like the rock cover better
in the spanish is shit too. I don´t understant the hype about that character. Please, someone tell me what is all about
I didn't even know he was a thing. I'm surprised, honestly. I know he's snarky and kind of funny, and he was a surprise to the audience for not being in the promos...maybe that's all it took?
@@MortalAnonymous Perhaps he is so over the top that he is perfect? I don't know. His animation was great though, but his whole scene felt like a "crocodile moment" to me
"-live action version coming 2052" well it came way sooner and god I wish it didn't
I’ve heard that it was only western audiences who thought Maui’s depiction was overly chubby - it was only hearsay but apparently his large figure and wild hair are considered powerful in Polynesian culture.
To be honest, in America at least, we don't really care how cultures actually feel about being appropriated, just how we assume they would feel.
Hey, we westerners love to appropriate others offence over ‘appropriation’.
i honestly just thought that maui is just like those body builders. like a bubbly jason mamoa
He wasnt even fat in the movie,it was muscle.
Americans are just so used to offending everyone that they just expect to do so at this point.
The Maui costume was probably a bad idea though.
You said, and I quote: "Moana is my favorite movie. But it's NOT the best."
Because everyone knows, Coco wins. Coco is the best.
Coco also isn’t the best Disney movie
Subjectivity or something whaddyakno
@@therewasoldcringe coco was made by pixar; which disney owns.
@@rad7149 but it is not under Walt Disney
@@therewasoldcringe if it isn't Disney then why is it on Disney plus? Eh?
Coco - 97 rotten tomatoes
Moana - 96 rotten tomatoes
Coco - 2 oscars
Moana - 0 oscars
Coco - 807 million dollars
Moana - 643 million
Coco became the highest grossing film of all time in Mexico , the market it was supposed to be representing . [ up until infinity war broke it by a little bit the following year ]
Well, it was for a few months, Avengers Infinity War is now the highest grossing film in Mexico
Disney is Disney, Pixar is Disney, Marvel is Disney. Everything is Disney
Bottom line: Disney is swimming in money!
Disney will dominate the world
Starfire Storm
Yeah by like 3 million
As a native Greek I have to say that, despite what that newspaper article said, Hercules was pretty loved in Greece. Especially Hades, who is still loved by Greek Disney fans, but also the entire dubbing was iconic, likely because it was so close to the native culture. But apart from that, I admire its tone, and I think it's ridiculously genius how the muses were portrayed as African American gospel singers, inspired by the colour of the clay used for ancient Greek earthenware, which was actually a popular means of conveying a story in antiquity.
Maui is not overweight or obese, he is heavy set because that is a common body type in polynesian men. Many wrestlers and strong men also have this body type because muscle gain also requires fat gain. Maui is not built like today’s shrinkwrapped body builders because that wouldn’t be culturally relevent at the time and place Moana is set in
I figured as much, along with the way Nani in Lilo and Stitch was designed. Many people cite it as 'thick' but it's actually more accurate to how Polynesian women are shaped and honestly how women are shaped in general. I liked Nani because she's so far one of the few most realistically drawn women in the Disney franchise in terms of anatomy.
In hindsight, I think that's why Tiana's design in princess and the frog always seemed...off-ish to me. Because while she's in full color in the film, remove it all and she looks like a cross between Bell and Aurora. While that may be great for animation purposes, it's not so great in the representation of multiple races and cultures.
I study animation and we study character designs. usually characters are build from shapes and different shapes have diffefent meanings. The more angular they are the more threatening they look. they just put maui in the friendlier shapes which is why he looks so rounded. He's not really obese or overweight because he's very muscular and he flexes every once in a while in the movie. People are just overreacting
Also, it gives a larger canvas for the animation on the tattoos.
can we make miguel a disney princess? please?
@Aidan Maxwell They did once release a aline of toys called "Disney Heroes" (If my memory of seeing it on the Disney Wiki years ago is correct), using characters like Peter Pan, Hercules and even a few of the princes. Considering it's no longer around, I'm guessing it did not sell well.
It’s kinda sad because the movie Alladin was ABOUT Alladin, and he even gets underrepresented in media to the princess of his story, Jasmine
yikes
@Aidan Maxwell you're complaining about nothing. you probably shouldn't be too invested in Disney anyway
Well, technically, Leia is now a Disney Princess
i really hated disney making hades out to be a bad guy when he was the chillest god in all of the greek myths and zeus was the literal nightmare and the source of everyones problems and hera with her jealousy caused the rest.
edit: this is the most likes ive ever gotten.
He did kidnap one girl to be fair. But he did it cause he wanted to marry her (I guess asking just didn't occur to him). And since she apparently eventually fell in love with him too, I'm thinking there's at least a... 75% chance there was no rape involved. Unlike every occasion Zeus found a girl mildly attractive.
@@MsLilly200 zeus got lucky with his boyfriend though, ganymede was the only lover that was granted immortalitity. Hera still wasnt happy, obviously.
and no, there was no rape involved, which is suprising considering the culture of anchient greece, with their "women should be greatful to be raped" crap. Hades was a chill guy, and persephone- in all versions of the myth- got the best card in the entire deck, i mean, she could have ended up with apollo, but hes unlucky and shed probably wind up turned into something else, or she could have ended up with a man that would abuse her, but instead she got Hades, a man who genuinely loved her and wasnt a massive sack of shit.
thats another problem with media when depicting hades. they make hades and persephones relationship really toxic and absuive, but hera and zeus' not? appearantly?
in hercules why wasnt hera pissed beyond her wits? hercules isnt hers, zeus cheated on her to make him.
I'm pretty sure they changed pretty much everything for the Disney version of Hercules. It's not exactly a child friendly story. Iirc in the Disney version Hera was his mom. It certainly looked like it in the opening of the movie, and there was no other mom shown besides the woman who adopted him (with her husband) after he crashed superman-style onto earth.
@@MsLilly200 thats true
That's why I enjoyed Percy Jackson a lot. Hades was basically only one not breaking promises and staying loyal and being good dad
This guy being Greek is the biggest surprise this week.
Hey that Rythme lmao 🤣