Worst Changes and Rules Fails from 40K's Big Balance Update?
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Let's talk about a few of the lesser loved changes from the dataslate...
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0:00 Intro
1:33 Rules Delivery
4:50 Guard Stratagems
5:58 Meganobz Overcorrected?
7:15 Pivot Rules
9:55 Faction Balance
13:23 Other Things...
18:26 Outro - Ігри
"69% of people thought GW did well, which is nice."
*I see what you did there*
Nice
nice
Nice
Nice
55+14=69
Reinforcements type stratagems should have had an incremental CP cost which went up the more time you used it.
Yes, want reinforcements 4 times? Sure pay 10 CP (1+2+3+4) but have it.
Ooh, I actually like that a lot
That or you can't use CP reducing abilities on the strat. You generate 2CP passively so in theory if you are constantly bringing models back that is all you will be doing and if its ever vect'd then 3cp. Very thematic if you ask me and now you'll need to take a CP generating character if you want to do anything other than reinforce.
ill take that option@@fredvieth2587
I do not understand why, in 2024, there is not a master file with the rules that you access online, probably through a GW account, that they just update when rules change so that it is seamless to the end user.
Because GW couldn't charge as much money for access to that.
I mean... *technically* you could argue that the 40k app fills that role. I'll never like that you have to buy a physical book to unlock the codex rules, and there's no code-only option, but the app gets updated with everything as far as I've seen.
@@cig13 Well, I would like to see the data behind that, but it may be that with ease of access to the source materials, even at a lower price, they may encourage more people to sign up and therefore even out or even increase revenue on the service. Speculation though as neither of us have access to the accounting numbers or marketing data of GW.
*Cue the employee being thrown out the window for suggesting such a solution*
@@McGoughable yeah, my only data is that if it were more profitable to do so (or equally profitable with the potential to increase the paying customer base), then GW would do so, as a profit-seeking company.
Rulebooks come in one pdf. Factions come in a free pdf per faction. How hard is that? The Old World has everything in free pdfs. Why not 40k too?
Games Workshop is too greedy, stupid and short-sighted to do that.
Old world doesn't though? The core rules on the community site aren't the game's rules, it's the errata and the factions on there are the index's for the legends factions. Not that I disagree, they should all be free PDF's but wanted to point that out
Because GW doesn't want to give freely away what they are currently selling for money.
@@masterofthelag8414 I've got all the pdfs, and they were free.
@@kdhlkjhdlk From where? Not sarcasm, I've played old world with a friend and the place we found the rules was a mess, if there IS a pdf of the core rules up somewhere I'd like to see it
I think poorhammer's take on the rule distrubution is the one that got me. If I haven't paid for your codex, I have no way to check your rules. Especially for factions like admech that undergo sweeping changes
Wahapedia is there for that and are pretty fast typically about uploading new rules
@@MrHoneuma for one man especially
While that’s nice and all, we absolutely in no way should be forced to rely on a third party source like that.
@MrHoneuma can't take that as being 100% for tournaments though. Its a decent guide, but just that a guide.
Admech player here, my Codex is just nothing but lore+art+showcase book now🤦🏻♂️maybe Crusade rules if I need to use them🤷🏻♂️
So yeah, there're almost 1/4 content of the book is trash, and I feel really sorry for those wasted tree🤦🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️
GW should just do an updated consolidated online core rules document. Don’t bother matching it to the printed version. You could still have an SINGLE accompanying single FAQ/designers commentary document.
For errata, they should have high-res full colour replacement cards to download for data cards, stratagems, mission cards, etc so players can print them off if they like.
Or just go for fully online, free living ruleset and unit stats!!!
They pretty much do for the core rules. 40k app has all core rules all constantly up to date for free, only thing thats paywalled are the individual factions as the codexs release (all the index factions still free on the app)
Small correction: Guards reinforcement stratagem isn't once per turn, it's once per battle.
As a nids player, this hurts me more 😂
@@LA-hx8gj 🤣
@@wackomojoGaming guard, ork, tyranids, kroot.
Worst for GSC brood brothers. 1/3rd chance you spend 1cp.
so you can't just keep bringing back a problematic unit. It got the nerf it needed tbh. Just spamming the ability to always bring back free stuff. It essentially makes your list more points than your opponent. It was a problematic one, especially considering guard was regularly winning tournaments unlike GSC and nids.
I get that rules updates happen, but we are at a point where it is guaranteed that every codex is misprinted at release.
GW selling mandatory physical rulebooks, codexes, and mission cards that are instantly out of date just feels like it should be illegal.
The fact that GW has fumbled "Free Digital Rules at the start of the edition" and codexes so bad that they ended up getting the worst of both worlds is utterly fascinating to me.
Technical writer here.
Balance aside, GW really needs to get their act together regarding writing. I swear they use the game designers to write the books without passing them off to writers for cleanup and clarity. I'd also be surprised if there's a legitimate revision process.
Revisions are handled poorly and game updates end up in at least three different places. Thank god for wahapedia. Is it too much to ask for comprehensive rules on one text document? Similar to MTG?
If I wrote/updated a body of work this discombobulated, inconsistent and unclear as written I'd have lost my job years ago.
Rulebooks are hard. This is known. 10 page board game rulebooks are already hard as is, you'd think when the rulebooks are recurring transactions and a bit more complex we'd get some investment in to them.
Love that the Autarch no longer has a RaW working ability since they just let you use a strat a second time, but not for free and not a named strat either.
Watch Captain Artemis for Deathwatch is kind of in the same place. I think his at least lets you use it on a Battle shocked unit. So it still does something I guess but extremely situational instead of something that was often useful.
@@carysage We got two of them in Death Guard, at least related to indirect fire. Morty's ignore hit mods and the lord of virulence's +1 to hit.
Tau have an enhancement with the same problem.
@@effindave6909the indirect fire nerfs killed the lord of virulence’s ability and Morty’s combo with crawlers. We did not eat good in this update :(
@@fishyboy2140 He does still provide ignores cover to the mortars and... I think that's the only thing he buffs now aside from the ranged attack wound rerolls for termies.
Between all that, the loss of nurgling scoring and the points nerfs to the putrifier and blightspawn things are looking bleak. Our winrate is going to plummet.
What I wouldn't give for older combi-weapon profiles
I'm pretty sure that combi-weapons were nerfed so that the new Infernus marines would look better. It just makes me wish they had given them combi-flamers instead. . .
@@greybishop7346nah it was to simplify the game more so and not allow elites and troops to easily take on vehicles.
Would be nice to get my kombi skorchas back if my meganobz get a 33% point increase as well as a worse FNP.
Smooshing all the combi-weapons into one profile was a ridiculous choice.
@@greybishop7346 that's standard GW design philosophy these days. The Infernus marines could've just been a unit of Company Veterans with Combi-Flamers or heavy flamethrowers, but nope GW had to sell a new mono-build kit.
They need to get rid of the books, and go digital...this is a mess. Idk how anyone see the rules as getting better...some set of rules have 3 different versions.
1 problem with that: they treat their digitals like prints, not updating them and create even more confusion..
It's clear that HQ doesn't know wtf they are doing, while at the same time giving stupid restrictions to the people handling the rules.
GW not updating the Core Rules pdf after such massive changes is infuriating.
I spend like an hour glueing changes into my printout and the document is an absolute mess.
I understand that they don't do it for every little errata, but this is a joke.
Congratulations, you are now a Scribe of the Adeptus Ministorum 🤓📜
@@skyeranger seconded
Just use the app for the core rules Mate, always 100% up to date and easier to search than a book or printout
Are we not going to talk about the Kroot? No point changes, but MASSIVE stratagem nerfs.
Kroot had there 2 most important strategems gutted. 😢😢😢
There are many things that have hurt kroot this BDS. The whole detachment seemed to revolve around recycling units and The War Shaper not being able to give the -1ap strat twice is gunna hurt - not exactly like the S4 AP0 army wide needed a nerf 😆 at least maybe now you could Grenade for free?
@@wicktail not only that. But pariah nexus hurts hordes. On top of that it ALSO hurt lone op strat being 18" instead of 12. Now there is absolutely no way Rampagers are getting into combat. At all. And they are hands down kroots best source of reliable damage. Shapers had no reduction in cost and do so little now. War shaper has to compete cost wise with Space marine characters that do 500% more. Gw fuckin sucks.
@@axios2716not to mention the cull the horde secondary is by far one of the most efficient points missions against hordes. Playing green tide Orks? Expect your opponent to gain a free 20-30 points just for playing the game and grinding your units down.
All they needed to do was declare that flight stands are not round bases. It's really that simple.
You mean including them to the exceptions?
It would hurt the small ones (like Vipers or Venoms) but at least it avoids the obvious exploits of the big ones.
Never understood why flying bases come in just 2 sizes when everything else has a bazillion variants now.. random leftover from the time the base size was basically a category.
@@Errtuabyss at least it would be consistent with the pariah nexus tournament companion where they removed the exception for non-vehicles or monsters on oval bases and put then in line with the other bikes/cavalry
Kinda surprised that you didn't touch on Death Guard in the nerfs. Our indirect fire got gutted, invalidating the rules of 2 models costing a total of 405 points and we received no points cuts to compensate. We also took hits to our two most important characters which is also a nerf to our only usable battleline unit. Also lost the nurgling scoring shenanigans. We were in a fairly good spot at 49% pre-patch, now I'm worried we'll be knocked back down to the high 30's low 40's range. I'll die on the plagueburst crawlers shouldn't cost 10 more points than wardog brigands hill. That's ridiculous.
They changed cognis lascannons for ironstriders, but not for archaeopter that has the exact same weapons.
From a space marine perspective, it seems like a money move... all the first born twin-lascannons are all single shot when they literally have 2 barrels, but the primaris equivalents generally get 2. The ironstriders are EXPENSIVE kits compared to some of the other unit, and they designed them to be an optimal choice if you bring a lot of them. And it still keeps the flyers from appearing as oppressive in the rest of the game. Just seems like them trying to sell more ironstrider kits.
I have no idea how anyone plays GW games with paper rules sources. If people didn't scrape and upload them for free online in places that collate all of the miscellaneous changes, 40k would feel legit unplayable
I'm going to keep making this complaint; they could've tossed out a new detachment for one of the not-incoming-codex factions. It did wonders for DEldar, and a few of these seem to be "we only gave you one way to play, and we appreciate that you figured out a few ways to play with that, but we don't want you to play that way", with how they've tried to gimp groups. I am mostly looking at Guard. I get that IF artillery spam was getting silly, and can be uninteractive, but they were most of the group that actually benefited from Born Soldiers, in a movement wins battles edition. Getting whole squads of free soldiers, or Sentinels, was also probably silly, but a Catachan blob loses a lot when it loses its attached leader, and Guard troops weren't sweeping fields. A second detachment, to have GW show how THEY picture Guard getting played, this meta, would be nice, though I guess they have, since it's obvious they want to push tanks, low model count forces, and things that guarantee they won't be taking too long in a tournament turn, with 120+ infantry. Since a number of units STILL don't have the right keywords to use Born Soldiers, maybe another detachment, with a whole different ability, would at least be a nice option, especially since it is kind of clear that Guard aren't getting their book soon, and GW probably doesn't want them outshining Astartes, or Custodes, anyway, so that book might not light the world on fire.
the worst part about these new rule changes is that they didnt update the core rules (or many of the other documents that were changed) like you pointed out
They decided that the digital rules should look like the original rules because... reasons?
They killed the Tyranid unending swarm lists, worst changes ever.
Shoutout to power sliding horses. I don't like the over pricing of Meganobz and I never liked that Crumping Time became a FNP, but for me I just bring one less unit of Boyz.
Why would the boss in the waaagh not get his attacks if he started in the transport? The waaagh is an entire battle round not an instant trigger.
That is such an ass backwards rule that makes 0 sense to add
Because most Waaagh abilities say stuff like "while a waaagh is active" and the warboss's says "WHEN you call a waaagh" suggesting that it triggers at that exact moment. Yes people are that petty. RAW can melt your brain.
@@asbrozek64 Ahh good ole RAW....where you had people able to fill a Trukk with 12 Meganobz at the start of 10th, and now can flip a Devilfish sideways to fit through gaps half it's size.
On one hand these can be funny to imagine....on the other hand you know people will rules lawyer the obvious oversights.
@@demon1103 and ghaz could go in a truck for 1 or 2 slots depending on counting Makari but he took up far more space in a battle wagon.
Surprised there was no mention of CSM getting a kicking they didn't really deserve.
Right??? Haha
My poor havocs did nothing wrong 😢
Between their codex and these nerfs, CSM have been DESTROYED. They will be around Space Marine win rates now.
Ehhh warp talons needed changes and price increase. The rest wasn't too bad atleast.
I was tempted tbh, it did seem disproportionate. My first guess is it won't be enough to knock them out of mid tier, but I guess we'll see! Certainly was more punitive than was needed though I think...
I can't play 40k anymore. I play maybe twice a month, and me and friends spend time with each game going over what's changed. Why can't we just have a pdf for the main rules and one for my army. But no, i have to have five different errata sheets .
I’ve been sticking with the beginning of 10th rules and points cost with my friends. Looking at getting into homebrew
@nathanieladams8633 my group is looking into one page rules and warsurge. Something we can use our models with.
Wahapedia is great for this, you will likely still need to check what changed manually but it is all in one site.
GW needs all their rules to go digital as part of their subscription service. One place that is always up to date and no one off errata documents. Charge and annual fee plus a monthly sub.
when they Nerfed inderact fire they should have changed some guard strat. Most are really useless now.
They could have given us one or two more detachment options instead of the cadian one we have now but gw seems to want guard to be nothing but cadians
@@hdhstarwars2723 they haven't even got a codex yet, you have a single detachment just like everyone with very few exceptions like Dark eldar.
@@kirbyball97 hey its my view that when a new eddition comes out they should give everyone their codex instead of some factions having to wait till the last 6 or so months of that edition to have theirs
I’m straight up ignoring the warboss/transport rule in my games
They should have created an updated Core Rules update. The rules in the pay app should have all been updated
Ability description changes in the app would be nice. Or do we still keep using them as written 🤷♂️🤦♂️
@SteveForteGMR Wahapedia has all their abilities updated for "10.5" Lord of deceit etc... but the PAID app doesn't... 🫣🤦♂️
GW needs to give up and have someone else (who isnt trying to sell you models) to wrote rules that make sense.
Everyone : "Ah sh1t here we go again"
G.w. “All you had to do was follow the damn update C.J! 😂
It’s so funny to me. I was messing around with some of my other armies lists and realized that I’ve basically gone back to playing the lists I was running in the index era at the start of the edition. This is even for my armies that have their codexes out like necrons since they’ve nerfed canoptek court too hard imo.
It was a messy update that over-corrected many of the rules and armies that were touched and nerfed other armies that didn't need nerfing with ancillary changes.
- Death Guard used PBC to force enemies to move forward so they could interact otherwise the opponent can just sit back for 2 turns and wait. As it is now PBC can't do enough damage to force an opponent into the mid-board and you now have to slowly trudge forward and die or go harder into plague marine/rhino spam. PBC didn't go down in points to compensate for the HEAVY nerf, 180 points for two S10 shots and a lackluster mortar. They also increased the points on the two most used characters but didn't change any rules on the other characters which was why they weren't used and still wont be used so its just a solid 40 points nerf.
- The free stratagem to -1 CP was a clean change but was ruined with the can't use the same strat twice ability. Its incredibly messy from a rules perspective as there are many abilities that just don't work now and if there are particularly problematic stratagems then they should look to target ONLY those stratagems with a 1 cp hike. I don't think double AoC or two units getting the same damage buff on the GO turn for most armies is problematic, thats how they were designed most of the time anyway.
- Reinforcement strats to once per game didn't need to go, frankly I believe adding a rule that you can't use CP reducing abilities on the strat would have been better. The army keeps their identity but now if they want to keep coming back that might be all they are doing. Endless models but they are just chaff, as intended I feel.
- Still a bit early but I've played two games against Ad Mech recently and it was miserable firing into their tank lines. They have some ridiculous stacking buffs on units again and need another round of increases. Onagers have a 2+/4++, can get a 5+ FNP and healed from a 60pt character. They are able to use cawl to get re-roll 1s in an aura (Auras were just nerfed for Space Marines vehicles) and can get heavy from their defender doctrina for 160 pts (220 with an engine seer). They are 2+/4++/5+++ hitting on 2s re-rolling ones with very dangerous guns while also projecting a 4++ to other units surrounding them (A rule that was nerfed for world eaters because it was considered problematic) and imposing a -1 to hit in melee passively and able to pop smoke on top of all of the other buffs. This is just one of the interactions I've run into so far and running 3 of these set-ups is only 660 points, crazy. I'm glad they are playable but there needs to be a hard look at the overlapping buffs they get now.
Leave admech xD they finaly did get something be kind to toasterboys
I’m genuinly confused on how 69% in the pool felt this was fine. GW didn’t even bother to think about what stratagems they have (for -1 cost) and models (bases for pivotunt. Also still broken internal balancing for Marines. Fine for a hobby project, but not at all fine for a million dollar company, this was sloppy!
@@marosvodzak6650 The rules are fine and the fact I've already had the opportunity to play against 2 admech lists is awesome, but their are two problems I see coming:
- Under-costed units: 160 points for the aforementioned onager buffs compared to the 180 cost of a PBC is ludicrous.
- Ironstorm spearhead 2.0: Historically static gunlines tend to draw a lot of ire and admech feel pushed back into this. The fact ironstorm was nerfed to curtail this style of play only for admech to take their place seems weird.
The admech deserve some time in the sun but we don't want a repeat of 9th admech.
Not that I disagree with your sentiment, but as an imperial guard player, your changes to Reinforcement type stratagems would have had zero impact on guard.
@@rileysmith7763 The point I'm making is that taking away abilities from other factions for the sins of another is poor balancing. Guard indirect got points cuts to compensate for the nerfs, but death guard didn't, SM whirlwind didn't, Desolation squads didn't, squigbuggie didn't etc. GW seems to know what they want to change but then make sweeping changes and only compensating a single faction is poor showing.
For reinforcements I don't know, I only ever saw it used in nids swarm lists and it didn't seem overly oppressive. 2cp seems appropriate but when you can do it for free every turn that is when its an issue, hence my recommendation. Perhaps there is a more elegant change but not one I can think of off the top of my head.
Potentially needing fixes for edge cases with pivot rules is far, FAR better than the incredibly awful rules for turning models we had beforehand. Nobody in their right mind enjoyed having to precisely figure out just how many inches of movement you had to waste just because the modellers decided that your vehicles should hang off of your bases.
Votann looking at the Space Marine transports getting bigger on the inside wondering why their little flying iron kin take up the same space as a full Hearthguard still...
What "pisses me off" the most is that 80% of character joining breaks transports.
- want to split up a hearthkyn warrior unit with sagitaur, better not have a character attached (i don't know if that has been fixed)
- want to put a Grimyr on a hearthkyn unit ? Better not transport because you now have 13 model
- want to add an iron master to a thunderkyn unit ? … too bad that your unit is not 13 or 14 model
At least the 5 man heathguard + char functions properly … but most of the time they deepstrike anyway, so it's a moot point.
@@DJRaffa1000 this is the thing if they said that Corvs don't take up space in a transport then this solves two of those issues.
I don't know about the splitting units with a leader thing. It may be I have been playing it wrong as I just do it (if the leader is a Kahl). I don't see any reason you can't do that.
@@SimonProctor maybe I misremember with the splitting. I might have the 9th ED version of the splitting rule in my head.
But yeah, just make the drone type models not count and most of it is fixed.
(the ironkyn can gladly cost a transport slot as it A) doesn't break anything and B) they are "full-fledged" members of society ... even tho GW just keeps on releasing assistant type models for them 😅)
They're also scratching their heads at Tau transports becoming thinner than their Sagitaur when driving through building gaps (overhanging model rules). I guess a Devilfish just turns on it's side and rides the wall XD.
@@DJRaffa1000an Ironkyn named character would go real hard.
I am so sick of the Exorcist getting points nerfed. It already wasn’t seeing much use in the top tables and the jump to 190 was completely uncalled for after the change to indirect fire.
one thing i would like to have had is some more units for Nids with the Harvester keyword.
there are only 4 with the harvester keyword and one detachment that builds around it, it is just not enough.
Another very dissatisfying slate for the Deathwatch guys. I convinced myself last MFM that they were going to fix our hyper elite space marines with rules, which made more sense. Then we get to this BDS and all they do is to undo a prior nerf. I do think our chances have improved though it’s only coincidental… I do feel like they seek to make viable only those space marines they’re looking to sell. Codex Space Marines don’t get love because they want us to play the (and buy) the latest non-compliant release. Makes me think Deathwatch is underserved not because we’ll be in the IA codex but because we’re not getting a release in the near future. Perhaps we’ll be 9th editions IG
I get the feeling that Deathwatch have been ignored for pretty much all of 10th edition because GW knew in advance that they would be turned into the rumored 'agents of the imperium' codex and effectively removed as a 'dedicated army unto themselves' with just the Kill teams as the major unit for DW and everything else made up of a mix of Tempestus Scions, Imperial Guard vehicles and Inquisitor units. I also wouldn't expect a range refresh with Primaris scale Deathwatch plastic kits because...10th seems to be very choosy who gets a Range refresh or even anything more than a single new model, though for the DW guys, I DO hope they get a range refresh, both DW and Grey Knights are in desperate need of 'Primaris upscaling' on their models even if they keep them 'firstborn'.
@@luketfergrey hunters and blood claws need upsizing too
I feel like the Tau chip thing is a classic example of a specific rule overriding a general rule, at least until it gets fixed. Flying base models should just be treated as if they don't have a base, so they should need to measure from the hull and thus pivot. As for bikers and other mounted infantry, we could just tie a different rule to that key word. Maybe they only pivot 1" or something instead of the full 2😊
As one of several Kult of Speed ork players, pivot, grenade nerf, tank shock change, and no actions on advancing feels very punishing in a detachment that's already not so strong
welcome to being anything other than space wolves or ironstorm space marines. lots of nerfs for no reason on an already struggling faction.
good coverage as always. i hope i can finish rebuilding my cultists before autoguns make a triumphant return
CSM nerfs were not needed, Abaddon and some characters/units still need discounts or an effective defense
I agree 💯… especially as the book just came out. I’d say the nerf to warp talons was a complete over correction. Point up maybe, but the rule as well really hurts.
The other points adjustments just don’t make sense. They don’t have enough data yet to determine what needs to change!!
Agreed. I'm fine with the Vindicator going back up to what it had been (not sure why it got a points drop last pass), the Warp Talons needed a nerf (rules limitation would have been much better), and I'm fine with Legionnaries being at 90 points. Everything else was absolutely unnecessary though. And the cherry on top, as you mentioned, was that units that are inarguably terrible didn't get touched at all. Why oh why is the Lord Discordant still almost 200 points.
@@Aaron-wv5si I had recently painted 10 warp talons and 5 havocs, immediately made my list worse lol. Had to drop an entire venomcrawler from my 1990pts list before even trying
@@tomm3700 was running 2 havos and 3 venmons. (it was not a good list) and now that list is even worse xD
warpsmith 70p, techmarine 55? Techmarine guns and abilities are miles better.
To prevent spamming too much of problematic units, they should make the first unit cheaper and then the second and third more and more expensive. That would incentivice to take only few artillery pieces or aircraft or ctan or whatever else is a bit problematic when spammed
I’d say that pivot rules are fine overall and if someone uses free pivot to reduce charge distance is a great way to filter out people who you should never play again.
I only started playing since 9th edition, learning at the tail end until we got into 10th with my group of players, and personally I don't think I would want to buy another paper book ever again with the amount of changes, erratas, and changes they need to make for balance, when everything I really need to be reading through it through pdf files.
The big failing of the new dataslate was best surmised by Bricky on the best Poorhammer episode (which everyone side watch they're great):
This is the best apple pie anyone had ever served me but they served it to me without a plate or a fork.
Great changes but the way they presented it to preserve their paid for printed rule books was absolute shit.
One thing that is being debated currently is the Lord of Deceit rule, and whether units that had a "increase cost of a strat" when a Warlord, get it when they aren't a Warlord (Archons, Watch Masters), or need to be a Warlord.
With such a massive dataslate it would’ve been nice to see some rules tweaks for core tau, and they murdered Kroot immediately after they released the new range so. It is hard to understand GW’s ability to mess up these things.
17:25 I wonder if there's a way they could use Aircraft and Artillery (and maybe fortifications?) to balance each other out? Rock paper scissors style or something?
Telemon dreadnoughts STILL not being able to use their two caestus in combat (extra attacks) even though they have the choice to equip two of them...which makes ABSOLUTELY no sense at all. Not to mention that the telemon's guns are really bad this edition. It would at least make it viable to play...
Ya my 2 are sitting on the shelfs. i almost tired them with the point drop but when you can bring a group of guards or venitar for the same price...
Multiple guard artillery rules are now functionally broken. Weirdness like Tank Commander and Baneblades not getting the combined arms rule, amateur hour job by the multi million dollar company imho.
I think my big problem was the blatant lack of equal treatment towards a new codex when it comes to changes for points. We had cheap necron ctan for almost 6 months due to gw thinking for them that 2 months was too soon for any changes but csm a book that hasn’t been out for even a month got multiple point nerfs
Ty for bringing up LoV nerf. I get it that they wanted to nerf indirect but now 1 strat is useless and LoV has 1/2 an ability, Morty’s ignore modifiers for PBCs also functions as a nerf b/c it is no longer guaranteed value.
The ongoing rule mess is just pushing more people to One Page Rules.
Warp Talons kind of got 3 big nerfs in one go I think, Having to kill the unit, a pretty big cost-increase but perhaps the biggest one could be argued being Heroic Intervention going down to 1 CP so unless you're very careful with them, you can much more easily get bogged down and killed for very little gain for such an expensive unit.
Overall I felt the CSM nerfs being collectively a big much (as the last time), especially considering that those that helped push them to a 51% win-rate had 20-30 warp talons in the lists to begin with.
Looking at units individually I think that Legionnaires could probably be 85 (at 90 I'm considering Khorne Berzerkers instead for units that don't contain a character), the Venomcrawler 115 (at 120pts it is exactly the same as it was in index times where it was not popular and it now has a far shittier special rule to boot). Warp Talons would probably be fine at 125 pts. I wish they had taken a look at all the stuff that is not even remotely competitive and adjusted those things a bit to help prevent the same CSM armies spamming a handful of units that are competitive and having them all nerfed due to overuse every time adjustments are made...
For other armies I do feel mostly for the Orks I think. Granted, the MegaNobz were OP and silly, but a 5+ Feel no pain and MAYBE a cost of 70 for 2 would have been more than enough to reign in any abuse. The Green Tide fixes I think were good and justified though.
csm in general got hit super hard...most renegade lists went up around 140-160 points which is a bit excessive imo...the faction was hovering around a 51% so really they were doing fine! but instead they went ham and just nuked the more viable lists directly with an 8-9% increase and indirectly with the oc0 and assault changes..that's not looking good
I think Legionnaries are perfectly fine at 90 points. They are one of the best battleline units in the game. If you aren't sure about them at 90 then, oh boy, you're going to be really sad with Berzerkers. They are far and away the worst Cult unit and for sure worse than legionaries, in quite literally every way. I would recommend Plague Marines and Rubrics instead if you really don't want to use Legionnaries.
As far as the rest of it goes, I agree. Considering our win rate, stuff like Havocs and Venomcrawlers absolutely didn't need to go up. Warp talons either needed to go up in points (though not by as much as they did) or they needed a rules change. Either once per game or be unable to use Rapid Ingress.
@@Aaron-wv5si I think Legionnaires are pretty good for having characters like the Lord of Master of Executions in them, but without characters joining I'm leading towards Bersekers. +1 Strength and a potential annoying free move can be handy. I do play against Orks most of the time, so that does factor in a bit though admittedly.
@@runeh3022 legionaries do more damage than bezerkers. Berserkers have +1 strength, but legionaries have Dark Pacts, wound re-rolls, more heavy melee weapons, and can take special/heavy weapons. Bezerkers have a not very good rule and an Icon that doesn't work. For the privilege of being strictly worse in almost every way, they pay the exact same cost per squad.
I get it, I wish they were better, but out of all 4 cult options plus legionaries, Bezerkers are the clear worst and it's not particularly close. If you want to take them as a fluffy choice, feel free obviously, but don't be mistaken into thinking they are anything but that, fluffy.
Tau puretide engram chip enhancement now does nothing lol
As well as Eldars Autarch 1st ability
Take it every time!
@@ScilentDeath Flex that extra 25pts x'D
You guys had enhancements that did something!? (Deathguard player)
Wait, there's enhancements? (Guard player)
Death guard pbc
Pivot rules are very welcome makes movement phase a lot smoother even if a bit silly, they should just make pivoting free for infantry/mounted and write in a rule to stop knobs trying to pivot for a shorter charge from reserves.
Separate factions that share models (ie Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines) can create a feels bad moment when one faction is overpowered but GW nerfs models that other factions also use - but weren't OP in their datasheets. The Forgefiend in CSM is pretty powerful, but it's almost useless in World Eaters, but they both get a points increase. Maybe the points adjustments should be done in context with the faction. Sure, it's more work, but a better result overall.
You can't just increase the points for any unit with an indirect fire weapon that has other weapon options. Admech Disintegrator is a good example of a unit that would be punished for one possible weapon profile on its datasheet.
Perhaps units that have just fired an indirect fire weapon should be targetable even if they're hidden. This way it's always a risk to fire one so you will use them in a more targeted way.
I like those changes mostly, especially rules changes and nids got great. But there were so many indirect nerfs to units not needing them. Like SM got their Intercessors, Heavy Intercessors and Sternguard indirectly nerfed as they can no longer advance and do actions. I get that everyone lost that ability, but these exact units already barely see play outside casual games and they lost one more use on the table. Same goes for some indirect fire units and hit cap. What's worse, I don't think GW team even registers these indirect nerfs and that's maybe why some units got nerfed twice pretty much. This happens every time and it's no longer funny.
Admech changes were nice but they need more. Problem what they need is even more datasheet facelifts and points hykes, and the detachments need to be completely redone cause they all kinda suck.
They're at least playable now and not fielding 100 rangers lol
Agree, detechment rules need to be change (just look at Rad-Zone Crops🤦🏻♂️), datasheet bugs need to be fix (again, Kastelan FnP where🤦🏻♂️), there's a long way to go🤦🏻♂️
Not to mention the problem of leaking units are starting to come out, it's another BIG issue that needs to be discussed🤦🏻♂️
I, for one, love the fact that if I paid money for the original rulebook and codex, read thru them, built an army based on them, and taught myself to play, I would still have a 50/50 chance of knowing the rules of my own army. To say nothing of the rules of any of the other 30 armies.
You didn't even need to buy the rulebook this edition.
One free app download and one codex purchase (with code) and you've had constantly up to date digital access to all your rules, as well as every faction that had not yet had a codex release..
Seems like the loudest complaints are constantly coming from the people furthest removed from the hobby.
(Paywalling the new codexs sucks and was a dumb and greedy move tho)
Honestly, I love the new pivot rule. No more debate! This is really clear for everybody now! And really easy to use in game and to understand (the tournament rules one obviously, but they can easily patch it for core rule)
"and all of this is fixing something that wasnt really broken" you say on pivoting, nope, it was broken for big models and made many of them impossible to move around with ridiculous cost to pivoting them around, i relly love moving a land rider 2" total after turning it around a little.
Its way better now, it just need restriction to models with flying bases and make it so that charge distance wont change if you pivot before doing them if entering deepstrike.
I loathe that the Pariah Nexus deck is largely the same as the previous one with just some of those cards being minorly updated. It also has some fundamental incompatibility with it too.
This means that rather than being able to use them together, as many suspected would be the case, they've instead opted to make the decks disposable rather than accumulative as it currently stands.
The codex and core rules books as a non-free electronically distributable repository being denied yet again when it's the obvious model of choice is already a slap in the face to their players, but this is almost a hostile practice at this point even in comparison. For a moment at the very start of the edition it looked like they had done the right thing, which I s'pose they still have for Combat Patrols and Age of Sigmar (except for objectives), but they actively went out of their way to undermine it for short-term greed. For shame!
I’ll stick to leviathan deck, nothing wrong with it.
Last time I was this early, the thot-bots were already here.
I went to read about the Puretide Engram Chip, and realized what its usage is (though it's still ridiculously niche):
PEC bypasses Battleshock status. It makes it so that, once per turn, no matter what, you can still slap a strat on the bearer's unit even if they've been hit by Shadow in the Warp, Medusa Batteries, or just go cut down by a vicious alpha strike.
I don't think it's worth 25pts though, that feels like a +10pts upgrade, especially since it can only go on 2 possible commanders (Enforcer and Coldstar).
I feel like my biggest annoyance with the Balance Dataslate was that units (like the sisters of battle Cannoness) that have the "0CP strategem in any phase (even if another unit form your army has already used it this phase)" is a rule that is overridden entirely by the balance dataslate because nothing about the rule is true.
The dataslate now states that you can't use a strategem even if another unit from your army has already used it this phase unless it is specifically named by the rule (i.e. Free Overwatch Strategems) and that the 0CP rule is actually -1 to the CP cost of a strategem.
The changes themselves are not bad but they kept the rule "0CP strategem in any phase (even if another unit form your army has already used it this phase)" Phrasing untouched on any unit that had it so unless you dig into the rules documentation you are playing rules as written if you contradict the new 'correct' way to play. even though the example in the documents specifically read this rule. (it is also untouched in the official app)
About the updated rules: I honestly prefer that they update and break books, instead of not updating.
I just transitioned to use apps and Wahpedia instead of books.
I still have books, and what I do is I print the new rules and put them first page of the corresponding book, so that I am always aware that there is an update.
Same with the MFM points, I just print it and keep it on the codex.
Using 5 different docs for core rules ::Laughs in D&D 3.5::
there should just be a living core rules document which condenses all the other stuff together, having 4 separate documents and pack of cards for the core rules is way too complicated and off putting.
Nine minutes in, I had to take a break, I was laughing so hard at your explanation of the location of all the movement rules. Great stuff!
One positive for Deathwatch is the free access to Special Issue Ammunition strats.
Slight price drops on 3 units wasn't nearly enough though.
Gw must be only company out there that sells you a product like codexes and datacards that are out of date/unusable before you receive them, messing up pariah nexus mission cards was a joke, they seem to rush too much, I'd rather they took 10 years to bring a new edition out that has been actually playtested extensively and requires no balancing
Im surprised Auspex didnt mention the 71 OC Neurotyrant with Neurogaunts as a obvious flop and the detachment as a whole with the OC>Hit bonus hop and the fact that there is no "below starting strength" for units with multiple models till a model is destroyed now being best played as a tarpit/map block army with only 4 damaging melee monsters/monsters that want to be anywhere near enemies (OoE and 3 screamers), 2-3 neurolictors and everything else just for OC, FNP+ability auras to cover the shitton of neurogaunts and some guns (or being able to use post nerf biovore and even harpy if one doesnt like shooting for some reason).
Almost as big of a flavor wiff as Destroyer cult detachment not actually doing anything for the signature destroyers.
What I don't understand is why they continue to nerf stuff even on forces that are below the goldilocks zone.
The fox for the divergent marines is that if they want to play vanilla marine detachments they can only use vanilla marin units. Just in the divergent colour schemes. This would do two things. Separate out the detachments to show what's working and what isn't. Then they can provide carrots for the struggling units m detachments and week the get the vanilla marines into the goldilocks zone. Secondly it would show if the detachments for the divergent marines are working and enable a fix if needed (aka fix deathwatch!).
Sure nerf units in armies above the goldilocks zone. But also look at detachments that aren't being used and provide glow ups on those others to get a better spread to break down the meta. More options is better surely instead of limiting to 1 or 2 builds that work in a meta.
My biggest complaint isn't even for an army I play. WE are still hard struggling and got the most minor of a buff. Instead of giving them back their functional rule from the start of the edition. A faction that was very much in their envelop for "Balance" above 45 and below 55. Got gutted for no real reason and has gotten very little in the way of help since. From the start of the edition to now I think WE has won 4 big tournaments. By contrast guard has won 13 since February.
All in asking is for the ability to buy just the codex code. Like ffs you used to be able to buy a digital copy in the past and now I'm paying a sub to use the army builder. Would it be so damn hard in their pockets to sell codes at $30 like seriously wtf
If they’re gonna nerf decent space marine detachments, they could at least buff the really bad ones.
Give Anvil a buff by giving weapons that already have the Heavy keyword, gets a plus 1 to wound regardless of whether they’ve moved. And make No threat too great 1CP, there’s no reason that should be 2cp, 2 cp for 1 unit to re-roll wounds is ridiculous.
1st company detachment needs a lot of buffs. But I don’t know if reasonable buffs would be enough, maybe sternguard, bladeguard, vanguard and terminator veterans are just not good enough.
Why is the return fire strat 2cp when unforgiven get to do it with 1cp?😅
@@lohikaarmeherra-1753 it’s literally a copy and pasted stratagem as well, just with a different name. Nuts.
Minor gripe, but Ulrik is a (super) chaplain locked the SW specific units. Really hoping to run him with blade guard sometime, and thought it would happen when a bunch of other sm characters got their attached squads updated (and a couple specifically to include bladeguard).
I think 40 points is a good place for MegaNobz to be (elite units shouldn’t be 30ish points each) but they need to buff them to make them worth that. +1 attack to each melee profile would be my suggestion as that evens out their threat profile as a good attacker that is somewhat hard to kill (fits their lore better too) rather than a mediocre attacker that is insanely hard to kill.
Ogryns and f baneblades not getting lethals..
Apparently, the legendary snipers, Ratlings, can't hit a lethal shot either.
and chimeras getting lethals against vehicles not infantry? it makes no sense
yeah, that reminded me of a poor Wyvern. Haha... life is pain fellow Conscripts
Releasing a 30+ pdf that isn’t bookmarked for ease of use by anyone?
I like the online rules thing. The paper codex is annoying, potentially hard to get if not in the UK, and then immediately it is released it doesn't have the actual play rules. Dark Angels is an example, where immediately we need the dataslate to make sure we know the rules for several units. If all was online and there was a better app for delivery of info it could be readily updated without impacting the play. If they want to sell books, then they could make the codex with more history, keep the paint guides and unit images, and then PDF the indexes only.
Off the top of my head the only improvement I missed in all this was Codex SM to offer something ahead of the specialized chapters of BT, BA, DA and SW. Maybe as rpigh as restricting these chapters to their exclusive detachments. Although this will be a straight up nerf.
To look further into this, give a boon to the Codex Space Marines chapters that aren’t Ultra Marines.
The only huge issue I have with the dataslate is how they didn’t update the free Strat abilities on the actual data cards in the app. I’ve already had an opponent confused by that as the rule on the unit didn’t have the new rule
Anyone else spot that rites of battle on space marine captains also got the puretide chip treatment but even in this oversight they still manage to make the SM version better because you get to pay nothing to do nothing where as the puretide chip makes you pay to do nothing 😂
It feels like gw changed some rules without adjusting further rules like Scout Sentinels are completly useless through the indirect fire changes.
Disorganized but not simple
I read the rule that only monsters and vehicles have a pivot value of 2”. Mounted units would have free pivots. No need to drift around the battlefield.
I think they changed from that to anything that is not round base pays a 2” pivoting cost
It's changed for Tournaments, thats why he said there are 3 different movement rules now. it's under the mission pack changes.
I cant understand for the life of me why they so often both nerf a units costs AND the reason they are good in the first place! Like the meganobz for instance. Or even the Accursed cultists which were effectively nerfed 5 times in a single ballance dataslate. Or even custodes which got the unit size cap + the dev wound nerf + the point costs + the stratagem for 0 nerf. I mean, GW, Chill!
My question is how the new Indirect rules interact with the Scout Sentinels Daring Recon ability. Seems to me the new rules for Indirect made that ability functionally useless.
The whole edition.. thats what they messed up
For the free pivot thing with oval bases charging, I'd be inclined to prohibit any movement of the model before measuring the charge. So if your Rough Riders arrived from Reserve and are 9" away, they measure the required roll without pivoting any models, and if they don't roll 8" or more the charge fails, even if pivot shenanigans would allow it to succeed. You'd still be able to pivot for free to fit models in, because you can pivot as part of the charge move, but you don't get to count that 'free distance' when deciding if the charge succeeds.
How would you solve the same issue, with a round base vehicle (impulsor, repulsor, etc) if the pivot happens at the end of a full move, for free? Not in the charge phase, but in the move phase. I still count that as a cheat.
This pivot rule is the biggest bulls.ht in the history of 40k.
@@laszlopolyak4353 It's a poorly thought-out rule, to be certain. I assume the exemption for round bases is meant to be for models which are smaller than their base, but they 'forgot' about hovering models like Raiders which are also on a round base but are far larger than it. I'd apply the pivot tax to any model larger than its base, if it were up to me.
Minor point - the charge from deep strike/reserve has to be 9, 8 is not enough, since reserves must be deployed ”more than 9 away”. 9,001 inches still requires a charge roll of 9 to get to engage range.😅
After all these years, I can't get around why people still buy a stupid amount of models that are broken at codex release. They ALWAYS get nerf really soon after. Meta-chaser are the worst.
So are they going to update the app with the changed rules?
As an ork player who had fun with Green Tide, Im very upset with how they did orkz. Bully boyz and Dread Mkb were the harder hitters and they didnt get squat. I still merk'd lists with 2 bricks of nobz with power klawz more so than my meganobz cause they'd get shot off the board even with the 4+ to range. The FNP was ok, but even with good rolls megaz are just too slow.
GT felt good to play, even against anti infantry lists cause while my boyz are being slaughtered, Im still trukkin and fightin. Now Im getting wiped off the game turn 2 cause 5+ on 20 boyz going to 6+ when they dip is now ridiculous. Its now a dead detachment.
There were some major things that were good like admech and nids, but alot of weird crap that doesnt make any sense. My friend group is not playing with any rules we see as ridiculous because it has turned our games into unfun messes.
With how they've handled guard I don't think I really plan to play anymore. Several units are missing out on lethal hits because they don't have the proper keywords now.
They were over represented in tournaments. They needed changes.
Auspect do you think Roboute G is better is the -1cp on all strat witb his ability author of the codex ?