The Development Hell of Gauntlet Seven Sorrows
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2023
- Episode 1 of Development Hell, an in depth investigation into games that lamented in development hell. In today's episode we take a look at Midway's mostly forgotten flop, Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows, which had an all star cast of developers including John Romero, Josh Sawyer, Inon Zur and more!
#Gauntlet, #CutContent,
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I'm convinced this video wasn't made earlier by someone else because of just how bad Seven Sorrows is. For example the final boss fight consists of running in a giant circle and pressing switches while he throws fireballs at you.
I'm surprised Civvie hadn't covered it yet
@@GhostonGuitar doesn't Civvie only do shooters?
@@Amig186 not always
I bought this game back in 2006 because of its name and the developer. Me and my group of friends played Gauntlet Dark Legacy years earlier and other top down multi-player dungeon crawlers that were a dime a dozen back then on PS2 and X-box. I got the game so my cousin and I could have something new to hack and slash our way through because we had just come off of playing Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks together, had a blast. The day we finally got her, my two other friends from the Gauntlet days together to play, we were all just disappointed. It was so mind numbingly basic, that we actually beat the entire game in like a couple of sessions and none of us could recall the final boss or how many levels there were. Now, knowing there was originally more to this game, wow, what a waste of potential. And we'll probably never get another Gauntlet game again because of this, probably because of that 2014 game too
I’m sorry, how BAD it is? This game is elite what are you talking about
It's disgusting how much genuine art has been lost to deadlines and corporate bullshit.
This one hurts, but at least it led to Josh Sawyer joining Obsidian.
And that's to say nothing of the Crunch time. The profit motive is incapable of acting in any other way. They'd likely be crushed by the competition if they didn't prioritize profit above all else. The "free market" makes slaves of us all, so long as it continues to exist
The way she goes bud
@@luckyreptile761 Fackin way she goes
I played Seven Sorrows with a buddy as a kid. We had a reasonably good time, but I do remember both of us thinking, "this is it?"
We had played Dark Legacy together and that was this massive, epic journey with so many different characters to choose and secrets to find, and even when you thought you had finally beaten the game you realized "oh shit there's more."
Oh well.
Dark Legacy was peak Gauntlet....I played the hell out of the game, maxing out all but 2 of the characters....
@Judge Drekk Wow that's crazy. It took a long time just to do one!
@@judgedrekk2981 thats me with legends; i kinda cheesed legacy by repeating bosses for money.
@@judgedrekk2981 One of the few console games both my parents would play with my brothers and I
What saddens me is the series had such great potential. I spent so many nights with friends playing dark legacy. 😢
Gauntlet Legends was my favourite entry, and I finally beat it in 2020. Huge childhood memories. Thank you for making a video on the series!
Wow, what a disaster! "We're targeting the edgy demographic. Design this game to be M."
*Some time later*
"Hey, we just realized parents play this game with their children. If you could just tone it down back to T, that would be great."
Game comes out, so little of Sawyer's work is in the finished product he asks to have his name removed from the credits. Romero was relegated to a special thanks.
Brutal.
I can't think of many games that had so much potential and had so much go wrong
@CohCohPuff My experience with Gauntlet is minimal at best, and I'm *still* super bummed. It sounded like a genuinely good game that got shafted BIG TIME in just about everyway possible. What a shame.
Nah man, DARK LEGACY is where it's at. I've been binge playing Gauntlet in the last few weeks, how uncanny timing this is. Legends/Dark Legacy might be dated; but every level in them is hand-crafted, and it shows that the devs really enjoyed making them.
They're the best games in the franchise IMO, but they didn't meet Midway's expectations for reviews or sales
@@TriangleCity It really is a shame. Dark Legacy, I think, was a 1999 Arcade title, but didn't come to consoles until 2002-ish, it was hugely dated, and arcades were destroyed by home consoles already. I believe the Legends/Dark Legacy format could have massive potential if remade with a more modern lens.
The 2014 remake was really fun, and plays tightly, but offers very little in the grand experience. A good first step for a franchise "reboot", still, if you can overlook the mediocre sales. I would do a lot to get the more storycentric action-adventure story from Legends/Legacy universe. Fantastic documentary on it.
@educherrypatty9436 I just beat Dark Legacy, replayed it for the first time since I was a kid, co-op. One of the most funy, gamey, addiciting ganes I've ever played. Excited for the Fanmade Remaster!
It also got me looking into the rest of the series. 'Really a shame to see this dev hell video. I never knew about any of this. I only knew apparently that 7 Sorrows wasn't revieved well. Sad to see such cool concepts cut yet again.
Damn... I was a Gauntlet junkie as a kid.. I had no idea this was in the works.. what a shame 🤨
Could've been amazing 😭😭😭
Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy were a lot of fun as a kid. Me and my friends got a ton of mileage out of the GameCube Dark Legacy. I can still hear the noise the Red Dwarf makes when he throws a heavy attack lol. At its core, it's kinda a spooky/silly party game ― maybe that's the angle they should work in the future, rather than the exceedingly early-00's "make it grimdark" approach
I would get 3 of the boys to to play Seven Sorrows with me endlessly when it came out. It was definitely janky and bad, but we had such great fun playing through it over and over again. Great video!
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Some of my earliest gaming memories are playing gauntlet dark legacy on an arcade cabinet at the bar and grill my dad worked at when I was 4/5 years old; at the time I thought it was just called dark legacy cause the gauntlet name was blocked by stickers. I later got back into the series in middle school when a friend and I played gauntlet legends on the original PlayStation. It’s not a crazy complex series but I’ve had a lot of fun with it and will miss the games.
That's such a wholesome story 🖤🖤🖤
Hoooly Crap. John Romero and the Former Members of Fallout 1 & 2 Creative Teams. This would have been an Amazing Game.
Man I loved Gauntlet as a kid, I remember my Dad showing it to me on the 360 Arcade have been a fan ever since. Even had the opportunity to play the original Gauntlet in a mini arcade machine last year at a cookout
Gauntlet Legends is one of my favorite ps1 titles. I am honestly shocked to hear it did so poorly. Me, my friends, even my brother and his friends would hangout and play this. Like maybe it was just a "my neighborhood" thing but it was popular to me and the people around me when it came out.
Romeo from creative director to "special thanks" yea !
Totally insane lol
So we could have had four player MK Shaolin Monks. I mourn what I never knew we could have had.
It could've been an awesome game :)
As a huge fan (and speedrunner) of Gauntlet Dark Legacy, seeing this video was a great surprise! Seven Sorrows is such a tragic game, so hearing such huge developers and gaming figures were involved is intriguing to learn
Super cool you're branching out! Loved the video!
Thank you so much! 🖤🖤🖤
Wow, had it not been for your video, I would have completely forgotten about Seven Sorrows, and how could I? I was so hyped when they announced this game, it sounded like a couch co-op God of War with arpg elements. I always wondered why the game was released with so little of the features they initially showed off. This was one of my biggest early gaming disappointments! Thanks for the memories!
It's such a shame it's only remembered for how bad it is and not what it almost was 😭😭😭
It's crazy to think Midway had the chance to be breaking ground into the ARPG world. This was a time where Diablo 2 was leaving people thirsty for more games like it. If they didn't rush it and actually got online playability, random generated maps, a large variety of gear, and a solid story, Midway would have been in an entirely different boat.
Guantlet Dark Legacy has a special spot in my heart!
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There's a remake being done actually
I played the original in the arcade as a kid and loved 4 player co-op. I didn't know about the origin of Seven Sorrows aim, but had a fantastic time playing this on high settings with friends on OG Xbox. It was a visually impressive title for that generation, and similar to the arcade original Gauntlet, it was simply destructive fun.
Gauntlet, perhaps pretty obviously, would be a great franchise for the rogue-like craze. I played gauntlet legends a ton as a kid, always just kind of assumed more of them were made after that one. Sad to hear it crashed so badly
I played the shit out of Gauntlet Dark Legacy when that released and expected this to be similar, ugh man I hated this game and to know it coulda been awesome is just sad....
Midway was stupid, they had a game that grew with it's original fans and escalated it's depth to a point they could turn it into full on mature ARPG series and instead got cold feet and pushed out a turd that nobody liked, lost their fans and helped bankrupt the company
WB's take on the series was an insult!
I should add, dark Legacy? I had all the characters unlocked and was on maxing the last 2 characters out before I moved on, I believe it was Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance that I moved onto, that and Champions Of Norrath lol
i wont lie. played this game as a kid and fucking loved it tbh
I worked on the fully animated pre-rendered CG cutscenes for six months, it looked awesome but it was all cut because they changed a minor character... hence the panning still images. Mind boggling.
6 months of work for panning images 😭😭😭
@@TriangleCity Yep, we did Dragon Age, NeverWinter Nights2, Fury and Sacred2 shortly after - which you can see on my ancient Director's reel - to give you an idea what it would have looked like.
What happened to those cinematics? Just deleted?
@@TriangleCity archived on a hard drive somewhere. I had just spent 18 months working on The Recruit (aka Ice Nine) for PS2. Which was also shelved. There's an awful lot of games work that just never sees the light of day, just filling up hard drives in someone's basement.
It's a shame the series fell by the wayside, because Gauntlet: Legends/Dark Legacy was one of my favorite games ever. One of my objectives as a game collector is to get a working arcade cabinet of Legends.
It really is. I miss couch co-op games so badly.
hey bud glad you did this one my friend.
Thanks bro! 🖤🖤🖤
All I remember about this game is it was over within a few hours.
Gauntlet Dark Legacy is still my # 2. Goblin Commander: Unleash The Horde is #1
Check out what happened regarding the development of Gauntlet: Dark Legacy: the Paths of Evil, a novel written by Richard White! They gave him a copy of the strategy guide in order to make the game, didn't give him any other resources, the novel ends on a cliffhanger, then the publisher died and midway fell apart - so part 2 never came out.
Wow Gauntlet is a mess lol
I was interested in reading that book, but it's out of print and the ebay prices for it are wild. $70!
I was just playing Gauntlet at my local arcade yesterday! What a coincidence
I was little af when i played the OG gauntlet, but used to love the arcade.
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I would never expect to hear twin peaks music from this channel
I love David Lynch :)
It's good to see that Chthon from Quake got another job as the final boss in Seven Sorrows.
If either Netherrealm Studios or any other gaming company does Gauntlet reboot, here are my ideas for a Gauntlet reboot. Gauntlet: Lord of the Realms
Setting: Fantasy world of Arcadia. Home to the various races of Humans, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Ogres, Shadow Elves, Catfolk, Satyr and Merfolk.
Plot: An Evil Sorcerer named Markath has stolen the 8 Stones of Power and unleashed a demonic invasion. Various heroes have tried to stop the evil Lord, but they have been imprisoned by his demonic lieutenants. One 4 heroes must team up to save the heroes, regain the 8 Stones of Power from the 8 Realms of the Humans, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Ogres, Shadow Elves, Catfolk, Satyr and Merfolk and defeat Markath, who has named himself Lord of the Realms.
Main four classes
1. Male Dwarf Warrior. Color: Red. Two handed axe. Viking themed. Red haired
2. Female Human Valkyrie. Color: Blue. Sword and Shield. Medieval Knight themed. Blonde
3. Male Human Wizard. Color: Yellow. Staff. Magician themed. Grey haired
4. Female Wood Elf Archer. Color: Green. Bow and Arrow. Nature themed. Black haired
New classes.
1. Female Ogre Barbarian. Color: Crimson. Hammer. Barbarian themed. Blue haired
2. Male Catfolk Thief. Color: Purple. Daggers. Assassin themed. Green haired
3. Male Shadow Elf Warlock. Color: Black. Scythe. Emo themed. White haired.
4. Female Human Cleric. Color: White. Mace and Shield. Crusader themed. Red Haired
5. Male Satyr Druid. Color: Brown. Club. Native American themed. Brown haired
6. Female Merfolk Gladiator. Color: Cyan. Trident. Roman themed. White haired
7. Male Dwarf Engineer. Color: Orange. Gun. Steampunk themed. Black haired
8. Female Catfolk Bard. Color: Pink. Guitar. DnD bard themed. Pink haired
Levels
Prologue: Road to the Arcane Tower
1. Human Castle
2. Elven Forest
3. Dwarven Mountain
4. Ogre Swamp
5. Shadow Elven Cavern
6. Catfolk Desert
7. Satyr Island
8. Merfolk Beach
Final level: Markath’s Castle
Bosses
Prologue: demon knight
1. Dragon
2. Spider Queen
3. Golem
4. Orc Warlord
5. Shadow King
6. Serpent
7. Minotaur
8. Leviathan
Final Boss: Markath
This could have been the fantasy "Borderlands" we never got.
Throwing up the Midway logo as a punchline is an amazing joke
🖤🖤🖤
Loved gauntlet dark legacy
As a huge DOOM fan (I actually just got done re-reading Masters of Doom by David Kushner before starting this vid) and huge Fallout fan, it blows my mind to think that John Romero and Josh Sawyer once worked on the same development team, even if it was such a brief time.
That aside, this story mostly just told me what I already knew; that Midway in the mid/late '00s was really dumb and poorly managed lol. You did a good job regardless, though.
I’ll tell you exactly what “Real” true Gauntlet fans want. They want a game in the spirt of Dark Legacy, but with modern Unreal Engine 5 graphics. Original combat and exploratory levels that are full of secrets and collectibles. The linear style of the game, and going form unique world to unique world is what the games all about. Maybe add some more unique enemies that differentiate from monster and creatures from other worlds. Maybe make bosses that move, such as the Spider Queen and Lich King. Keep a boss or two stationary such as the Dragon or something. We want more playable characters with unique abilities and Passives. Also unlocking secret characters seems to be something no gaming industry understands anymore. Having secret characters hidden away that you and your friends have to find and unlock under a certain time frame was genius, and seemed to be something N64 and earlier consoles got right. Also, and maybe most importantly, we want Online Co-op and couch Co-op. Not one or the other, both. I know this is a jumbled mess of recommendations lol, but I believe it’s that simple. That’s what the people want nothing ground breaking or more than what’s already there, just some simple rearranging and fine tuning of what makes the game so unique and endearing to the real fans of the early franchise, particularly Dark Legacy.
Dark Legacy is one of the best games of it's kind, but Sorrows is just...eeghh...
Watching a video about Gauntlet while hearing the haunting Tristram village Melody of the original Diablo game.... dude lol
Gauntlet doesn't have much music that works well for ambient background music, but some of the classic games have banger midi soundtracks
legends n64 was the last great gauntlet game being the only port with an item inventory. dark legacy was ok but would have been much better by simply keeping the inventory but they got rid of it for some dumb reason. 7 sorrows looked like it could have really been something if they stuck with the original plan. never played it and have no intention as it looks pretty lame.
I wouldn't recommend playing it haha Easily one of the worst games I've ever played
@@TriangleCity yea ill take your word on it haha
I'm still wishing we could get another great game like Dungeons And Dragons Heroes was on the OG Xbox.
Maybe one day
Love seeing you expand beyond fallout stuff
Thank you so much! It's very refreshing to cover other games
I hear Twin Peaks!
My jam 😂
I don’t understand why they would cut all that and give a shoe box turtle of a game Don’t get me wrong it’s actually ok but this is a lot of stuff they dropped that would have made it awesome
Okay first off i loved seven sorrows. Yes it was too short yes the final boss sucked donkey nuts but the combat was great and i had so much fun.
I wonder if the awful development of Seven Sorrows is part of why Josh handled the extremely tight dev time of FNV so well
Probably helped to some extent, particularly since he had only been Lead Designer on IWD2 and The Black Hound prior to Gauntlet
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6 minutes
This game is infamous among the dwindling Gauntlet fandom for essentially killing off any remaining interest in the franchise due to how badly it fumbled right out of the gate. Good riddance by the way, as Gauntlet was never among my favorite classic game series despite having the Tengen NES port and having played it a lot as a kid.