The Hidden Cost of Gamification
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- Опубліковано 27 лис 2024
- Gamification can be amazing, but it also can be predatory...
What do you do when a tool becomes a weapon?
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I love the idea that it isn't about making things easier, but just about enjoying hard things more
Ayo?
And who says hard things should be easy or fun? Rewards for doing easy things are meaningless. HARD THINGS SHOULD BE HARD. Jesus, the lazy softness that's running rampant is so disheartening. OMG ITS SO HAAAARD. And y'all wonder why older folks think you're pathetic. Christ, grow up. The world is not here to amuse you.
@@Serai3 I'm an older folk who has spent literal decades operating on the premise that yes, the world is very much here to amuse me. One of the secrets is not giving a shit if other people think you're pathetic, which is pretty easy once you realize most of them are miserable anyways.
Idk, gamification never really worked for me. I mean it does, to an extent, but in the long run I'm better off with finding reasons, deep motivation and an enjoyable angle in the hard thing itself. It takes me way farther than gamification. Especially with education, turning it into games makes it kind of more superficial and less comprehensive which doesn't contribute to really understanding the subject you're after
@@Andrew-wv9ys Wow. That's pretty sad.
It’s so interesting you mention that monopoly makes the players mad at each other instead of mad at the system. When you aren’t introduced to another way, the other players are the only place for blame.
plus monopoly was MADE to show up unfair the system worked
hence why I never played it and couldnt care less what people think of me while I refuse to play that garbage
@@minmogrovingstrongandhealthybecause they were wrong for looking down on you for not playing, when all you wanted was to not be in conflict with them? same.
@@kingmasterlord I mean sure agree with you but on top of that the thing is I didnt even want to be part of it from the start is what I am getting at. I know better to stay away from stuff like this.
The same way I stopped using substances and avoid gambling. Or anything even close to that.
Real life can be a waste of time sometimes, a huge gamble etc so I dont need the same in a game too.
All my life I stayed away from trouble, I was fighting for staying far away from it yet problematic people and scenarios keep finding me, glues onto me so yeah next to that you don't need "extra on top" of the same.
Another reason why I stopped playing video games when they stopped being a game.
And the most of the community is cringe worthy and toxic at best as a result so it's not much inviting to be part of that at all.
Another example. When I was a kid I ran away from home, my parents divorced and I legally disowned my father (it was a both ways legal thing that was done in court of law) only to 30+ years later (this year) my father passed away as homeless and by lung cancer and I by "law" inherited all his debt.
I already paid out half a million euros for everything and the fines bills whatever (you should read these they are basically life threatning) keep coming.
They are forcing me to pay things that are not even my own crime or crime at all.
Chances are if this continues this way I might end up just as my father, homeless, sick and unalived ...
Do people see the major flaws in all this? How am I accountable for my father's "sins" (true or false doesn't matter) when I legally disowned him 30+ years ago ?!?!!!
AND then even if so how am I accountable for someone else that I didn't had contact with 30+ years ago too or at all!!!
So when you live in a toxic system inrl you don't need the same in a game is all I say.
@@minmogrovingstrongandhealthy yeah that's what I meant. so are you _aware_ that you're autistic? it took me a long time to figure it out, too.
and yeah, you don't owe them anything they just have to eat that loss. refuse to pay.
As a teacher and researcher gamification is way more complicated for GenZ and Gen Alpha
The problem, looks like in my opinion, saturation. If every single little steps has gamification and reward, very quick kids give up.
Why?
Because is everywhere.
Kids loves unknown.
My research in children with dyslexia also uses some of elements of gamefication but in small scale.
So even you give stars, stickers or badges, as an educational standpoint these techniques has a short life if applied without moderation.
What helps, in my experience, is to do in sections:
At first, we are working with the boring part, and then after we will play a game related with the content.
This type of contrast,boring versus fun, became more effective than just oversaturated rewards.
By having boredom, the fun will more fun, as same as a dessert is more sweet after dinner 😆
Which correlates exactly with the conclusion of this video, quite neat!
I hope you’re not teaching English…
@@artugertnot everyone lives in an English speaking country
@@luckyblockyoshi Yes, I am aware of that.
@@artugertHey random internet jerk, they're not on youtube as a professional, they're here as a human being. Unlike you.
I’m starting to question the whole “life as a game” metaphor. It still assumes that productivity, exceptionalism, and winning are the whole point. I’m not saying those are necessarily bad goals, but what if there are other ways to live a good life? Quieter, more still, smaller ways that are about enchantment and awe and pleasure and connection. Living life less like a game and more like a tree in the woods. That’s a good life too.
❤❤❤
It's about what you enjoy doing. I have friends that enjoy living just like that. For me tho, it led to decadence that I had to stop.
Why can't we have stasis? Why must we keep getting more money, keep getting "better", if we are happy with our life now?
I don't see 'life as a game', but more that for some things in my life I need to gamify them. For example: I quit drinking alcohol. I used a 'high score' principle to achieve that. My high score (3227 days and counting) worked in that instance. I've struggled to use that in other areas.
But also agree that we should have times of stillness, of a slower pace of life, taking time to 'smell the roses' so to speak. Not everything should be about productivity and doing.
Nice to find a kindred spirit. I have struggled using a variety of techniques to think and be like the aspirational role models I'm presented. Gamification didn't work. I realized that constantly going against what I wanted, a slow simple life, made me unhappier. So for me, the hard part of living is sticking to my convictions no matter how little value people find in what I want and believe in.
@@flipinaThis comment gave me peace, thank you
Wow… so society just forgot that we’re supposed to be playing in prosperity mode…
Oooooo you said it well
We as a society didn’t forget, we just never got that option. The government and elite still aren’t going to give you that option if they can help it either.
@@shaggyterrell8460 Everyone has the choice to be fair, respectful, and cooperative in their own dealings. But yeah, I’m not blaming individuals for a systemic problem. It was just a flippant observation.
Yeah, cuz landlord is capitalism, and prosperity is communism, and communism=bad
Yes
Mate, you have massively stepped up the quality of your videos. Don't get me wrong, the initial stuff was really good too. But lately, you have been killing it. I know your initial goal was quantity, but the quality your are publishing right now is astounding.
It's turning into my favourite weekly documentary series! I've started not watching them on my phone and waiting to put them on the TV. Which is so cool!
I second that
Too bad my favorite game mechanic can't be replicated irl. A set structured path, and the guarantee that you WILL finish the game if you just grind. I love being engaged in the story of a game and knowing that all the accomplishments in game lead to a big ending. But there's no such thing in real life because that wouldn't make sense. The unknown is what makes life what it is.
Ways to obtain almost any qualification sounds eerily similar to your game mechanics. There's plenty of grind and a guaranteed outcome. As long as that new skill is complementing your life, a grenade can turn into a tennis ball :)
Isn't cleaning or in general doing chores exactly like this?
Yeah my same thoughts. I got into gamification for the same reason. I have an attention disorder and no matter how hard I try to make things work, my brain is just wired a certain way. Even when I'm aware of the benefit of doing certain "boring" work irl, I can never get myself to just do it. Meanwhile, I can quickly go a long way for random hobbies that I enjoy simply because they're fun and rewarding.
I got addicted to video games in general because of quest systems and the sense progression despite the grind. We get visual aids telling us that progress is being made, like xp bars telling us that every grind is bringing us closer to an achievement. Even simply fiddling with your character can sometimes grant something.
IRL, there's nothing at all like it. It's just life. I can pick up a guitar and pluck the strings but there's no guarantee I'll be a rock star. I can paint, but no one's telling me that I'll be the next Van Gogh. I'm even forced to spend years of my life in school for a future I know nothing about (I'm in my college years now and I still don't know what the hell I'm doing).
@@Serena-or7slno big, dramatic, story encompassing ending. Just the same life you had before with a clean room. It will definitely make life better everyday, but not the dopamine-inducing attention-grabbing power of a video game ending. Which is pulling together hours of your life into not just confirming your hard work and maybe testing your skills with a final boss, but then tying up the hours you spent developing the story as well as your video game skills. It is designed to feel satisfying and to make the player feel like they made a big accomplishment (usually). Developing a new skill like cleaning is definitely a less enticing goal in the short term, even though people logically know that it is a more beneficial place to put their time in order to be content in the long term.
tbh knitting is my own form of grinding, do the same stitch over and over and suddenyl you have a sweater
Just finished the video, and, gosh, I fucking love your videos, man! The way you incorporate interesting stories to thematically engage us, the way you elaborate in a way not so hard we won't understand but also not so easy it's condescending, and your charisma, man! You have such a healthy perspective in things, it ends up actually making me morr positive lol
I'm sure you've heard this many times already, but thank you. Keep up the good work 🙌
I came here to say the same thing! ❤
"My appetite for creating stuff often exceeds my ability to"
Oh my god this, this is me right here argh it drives me insane.
Me and my projects 👀👀👀
as someone who spent almost 2yrs in a shelter and in June this year has moved into PERMANENT supportive housing...
Thank you, your final words especially have me bawling right now.
"Sometimes there's no hack for motivation and we just have to do it the hard way. But the harder the challenge is, the more it'll actually level up your life." It's always a pleasure to watch another Struthless video. And this video reinforces that. It was really insightful, entertaining, and valuable. I love how you took different angles on this issue and landed it beautifully on a true tough-to-practice fact to embrace. Thanks again for your work!
It's like playing a Soulsborne game lol
Or any Monster Hunter game I'm pretty sure
I love how you put this - I've always liked sayings that imply that life is about play, but I've felt ambivalent about those who insist that "life is a game." Life is a playground, not a game. Playing games is optional, and games are created by us children - and though they are fun, not essential to being able to play.😊 kids that force you to play their game are probably going far in life, but not very nice kids, so you can just play your own way in a way you truly want haha
Life is an open world sandbox. It's co-op, not pvp.
Great work! Where I would disagree is that suffering is a reflection of how hard something is because you can start focusing on how much you suffer to prove how hard something is, and so: how good will you feel when you achieve it.
Accepting and doing something hard and still finding ways on how to play and engage could be a better use of your energy. For example: raising my daughter is hard, but that doesn’t have to be an act of suffering. I think sometimes we confuse suffering as a proof of love or commitment. I think we can be more creative than that.
I love this message. Life gets so rewarding when you're able to utilize the gamification strategies that have been preying on us, to our advantage. That's how I've been living my life for the last decade and it's been very valuable. I also really agree that the goal of gamification isn't to make the hard thing easy, but rather to get you started on the hard thing and then it's up to you to find intrinsic joy in the process. I typically do that by being intentional with what I choose to spend my time with, so that I'm working towards something that I really want!
Your closing made me cry. I don't know how you do it Cam, but your videos are always so timely. I've spent the majority of my day today recalibrating after the long Thanksgiving break with my family and feeling sort of hopeless. It's hard to keep "gamifying" the struggle of modern (broken) society.. and equally hard to show up and stand before all of the obstacles being a person/parent/worker/human and so painfully aware of the moral bankruptcy all around us.
This was a comforting reminder that has been extremely grounding. Thank you
man i always love watching your videos, i originally found you about a year ago watching your "what to do if you feel lost in your 20's video" and i feel like since then my life has genuinely improved. I got out of a deadend job that was visibly killing me and decided to work on what i deem important. Since then ive performed on stage, traveled to the other side of the world and started school again.
Very glad that i can also watch you when i am doing alright and want to learn something new!
I've been subscribed to you for about three years I think (maybe more?) And I think this is probably my favorite video of yours you've done since the 70% rule one. Not because your quality or drive or anything dipped. But because the message is exactly what I need right now.
Back when I first watched the 70% rule I was heading into graduate school and I was drowning. Drowning in my own fear, anxiety, and harmful need for perfection. That video gave me so much freedom and grace to breathe. To do my work at a level that I KNOW I could do it rather than constantly pushing myself to impossible extremes and then fall into deep pits of shame and despair.
Thank you, mate. Thank you.
Dunno.
I see the opposite affect mostly- taking joyful things and making them drab.
From silence to learning something new to endless possibilities of novel invention with the laundry; we beat the curiosity and improvisation out of ya in the name of leveling up.
The problem with gamification is there is no actual play.
That's a good point! In terms of strategies for spicing up life, some people use gamification, but I guess others prefer to... whimsify? Like finding the magic in everyday things. It would be interesting to have more discussion about that method.
If I could physically put my copy of "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn in your hands right this instant, I would. He goes into example after example and study after study of how external reward systems, including forms of gamification, warp and even obliterate the intrinsic motivation that helps people learn and retain knowledge long term. He might even turn you away from all forms of gamification all together. He also touches on "the joy of doing hard things," as you beautifully put it.
(It's worth noting as well that some of what's included in this video isn't typically classified as "gamification," such as simple tracking, using one's imagination, and forms of non-instrumental play.)
There is no point or badge system that is going to make chores genuinely fun. That’s why they’re chores and not hobbies. As Dr. Wong told Rick:
“I have no doubt that you would be bored senseless by therapy, the same way I’m bored when I brush my teeth and wipe my ass. Because the thing about repairing, maintaining, and cleaning is, it’s not an adventure. There’s no way to do it so wrong you might die. It’s just work. And the bottom line is, some people are okay going to work, and some people, well, some people would rather die. Each of us gets to choose.”
I'm gonna read this
Yeah, I noticed that even in the game that I played, the rewards turned into a resource that had to be managed, and eventually, even that resource was worthless, because we had to pay to get more to make that new resource useful.
Wow, thanks for the recommendation. To me this sounds a lot like how drugs works. The #1 effect I see people complain about years and years after quitting heroin (but also SSRIs) in an inability to feel contentment, which kills motivation.
@@ewetn1Thank you for that info.
If I had to paraphrase that into my own perspective, would it make sense to say, "After heroine, everything seems so boring. 😞"?
Bro, I don't think I've ever commented this on one of your videos before and idk why, but you are a freaking genius, I'm sorry to say it. Like, the amount of research, dedication, scripting and analysis that goes into each and every one of your videos is truly freaking inspiring. When you drew the 3 different ironies from Monopoly to play back into your talk of gamification - actually when you even chose to anchor the story with Monopoly - I knew we had a certified hard worker and friggin genius on our hands. And this is the case for every one of your videos. Literally, you are an inspiration. Keep doing what you are doing, you are an aspirational creator, you are killing it, and I still need to get my hands on that highly rated Your Head is Houseboat book of yours xxx
The "Fonts" video is hands down one of my favorite videos of all time, and every video you make is a master piece of it's own. The man in a caldreon climbing up a mountain is such a perfect refernce for life. The older I get the more I voluntarily do hard things. That what you HAVE to do to grow. There is no other choice. That was a lovely way to spend 24 minutes before I catch up with an old friend soon. Cheers bro! Looking forward to the next one. Appreciate all you do.
Ugh i needed this video. Been procrastinating making some hard life decisions and ive been feeling like i need a swift kick in the ass to get me going. Ill try gamifying some of it. But i also love how you accept that hard things are meant to be hard for a reason bc we wouldnt grow or change without them:) That mindset helps me a lot 🙌
This is such a great topic idea! I like this specifically because it's my personal example of how my partner and I have different needs and tendencies; my partner recently got a game app that helps with habits. It's harder for them to keep track and feel recognized for what they want / need to do, and the little game is right up their alley because they play video games and are quite a tech guru. For me, the way I make cute lists and have a little "life binder" is my game because I just like art and decorating and being organized. It just depends WHY and HOW you use these tools. I get the downsides for sure! Just stay mindful of how gameification is helping or hindering you if you use it!
“for learning to cope with losing” that’s so evil oh my goddddddd
Excellent video, one caveat. There’s a sweet spot for difficulty too, also something game designers are intimately aware of. Too difficult and we stop trying (in life, in games) and too easy also decreases effort. Competency and therefore motivation are tied to challenges being appropriately dosed
I just wanna say that your videos always seem to pull me out of my own head, and make me feel like I can actually work towards making things suck less. Hope you know it's appreciated and valued.
man, you look so happy. you mentioned addiction: props on getting where you're at today, it's inspiring.
I am an Uber driver, the gamification in the platform is absolutely toxic...
It involves obfuscation of abilities and features that directly impinge on the ability to earn money.
This is incredibly prevalent in the gig economy, if you ever feel like doing a bit on the gig economy, I would love to describe the facets of gamification, and my experience of driving for nearly three years and 10,000+ trips.
All of the gamification, obfuscation, and tactics employed by the Uber platform serve to give both drivers and passengers a worse experience, while simultaneously creating a work environment that keeps drivers at odds with other drivers, which affects their ability to agree with each other, and gather, and organise in order to employ collective bargaining.
Hey Struthless? Can you promote sponsors that DON'T use AI going forward?
People don't learn or improve when they rely on AI to do the work for them. They just give their information to a machine (and the company that leases it) to collect and weaponize against the market. Every prompt typed, every action take, more data for the machine.
When I hear "It uses AI to do XYZ", it doesn't matter what XYZ is - all that matters is that it's "learning" about its users and how to exploit them. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if Styles tells its users that it would like to know their location.
I get where you are coming from too but at least he presented it as tool and not like an anchor
Welcome to 2023, and AI will not be going anywhere
Brother, AI isn't an inherently good or bad thing. Companies have access to your location regardless.
@@danvella1104even youtube does 😂
My 11 yo son is learning English through Duolingo. He likes, as a game, and so I incentive him to continue. For ADHD brains, like us, gamification is a helpfull tool to provide Structure, but I see how it has to provide structure to good things.
Fun fact in elementary school I was a bit of a problem kid, i was a genius level, adhd kid with issues at home but I loved games. So I'd finish my tests and then bug everyone else and always be in the principals office and couldnt explain it. Eventually the principal realized I really liked games, so he sent me home with games that were for english and math etc up till like grade 8, I was in grade 3. I came back like a week later having finished them all 100%
Needless to say he was really annoyed that it didnt distract me for very long and eventually I was expelled and homeschooled which probably had some adverse effects.
But ye to certain minds specifically gamification is really powerful for engaging people, for others it becomes really distasteful
I took a course in media analysis 2 years ago and what I took away from it, regarding this specific topic, being able to identify the different designs and their function is foundational to notice if the use can be addictive and harmful. It's everywhere but it's different when you "see" it and can identify it for what it is. However, I am an adult and I fear that kids don't always have access to lessons in media use.
Thank you for calling out MLMs!! Thank you! You can NOT convince people that the game is rigged against them, and I know this from the programming end of it. It's a math game where the players have no idea of the formulas behind it. If you love someone, drag them out of their MLM. All the people at the top "bought in" at the top and made up a downline business. It's legal but you're stupid if you think you can get to the top without spending a LOT of money.
My brother wrote his thesis about gamification, and I discussed the general concept with him a lot.
For me the danger of manipulation is a huge concern, and I'm happy someone talks about that publicly
One note on Club Penguin (the original version at least):
You don’t actually have to spend money in order to buy items. Only certain items and areas are locked for “members” and membership is a fairly low monthly price. This allows kids to play for free, and the parents who are paying are only spending a static amount of money.
I will say this does play on FOMO but it’s the best free to play monetization model I’ve seen.
The second version created, however, did use a myriad of parasitic free to play mechanisms that would allow kids to spend unlimited amounts of money.
Had to take a break from watching here 8:06 to answer your question: that metaphor not only made sense, but it was one of the most brilliant things I’ve heard all week 😄
I really needed to hear this. I am going through some stuff and I have been avoiding doing the hard stuff that needs to be done. Thank you, Cam.
Interactive Buddy was literal Schrodinger's Catch. Got bouncy and baseball tosses, Are they on fire? Grenades, tasers.
I remember trying to gamify things in life when I was too into gaming, and I remember wasn't very effective. I think it might've had to do with intrinsic motivation.
You are seriously killing it man. Some of the best most interesting and thought provoking content I've seen. Keep it up 👍
This is the first video of yours I've seen and you deserved my likes and sub
Thank you for this mate…. As someone drowning in debt, had to move back home with my parents, discouraged and dealing with a lot of emotions, I needed this in my life right now. Thank you, I’m literally crying right now ❤
I work Business and Arts. I struggle making people feel the way out of their consumer loop. Often solution is culture, instruction, curiosity and anything that makes their guts move. You often fulfill all of those gaps. Thank You❤
You forgot the blindfold part of Schrodinger's Catch.
You, the one with the catching mit, are blindfolded, and you can't put your blindfold off.
Your videos are genuinely amazing and deeply inspiring. Thank you
This is one of your BEST videos yet! Loved the way you segued into your ad read. And the whole vid gave me a new perspective on something I, originally, held to a much higher standard. Thanks! Keep up the great work!!
I love your videos with how you manage to tell stories to make a point. You’re also very charismatic and engaging. Also, happy belated birthday!
I've received 11 cancellation email notifications in 45 minutes...
Same, came here to see if there was an explanation
@@horsefeathers2391 I'm up to 22 emails now.
@@horsefeathers2391 It looks like the website is back up, so hopefully they will stop. When I went to look before, the website was down, so I think it was a lapse in service?
@@horsefeathers2391 It looks like the website is back up, so hopefully they will stop. When I went to look before, the website was down, so I think it was a lapse in service?
Sometimes when I think about how I'll never own a home I like to pretend that I'm a lizard on a mission, so that way maybe one day I'll actually enjoy eating bugs.
Gamification gets social credit scorey real quick.
OMG i just recently used the timer strategy, because i just thought: ok, i dont want to do this but 5 minutes are a very short time and if i do it with a timer the reward will be more noticible (i.e. the timer going off) instead of me just doing it and feeling not rewarded.
So crazy that youre now talking about this exact same thing. Thats amazing, kinda confirms my strat and now i even know why it works. Thx so much for your amazing content
"how can you use it, without it using you" the story of humanity
Oh, I got one for the grenade; life!! Not the game, but the societal idea of it. Be born; get the avatar, go to school; get the skills, get a job; the rewards, spouse, your kids, cars, house, etc. I guess they just forgot where and who you were born to be the biggest cheat code. >_>
While I personally love the idea of Duolingo, I do wish it did more to actually teach the language. I've looked a small bit into it as someone who has studied Japanese for the past 5ish years, and it seems like the app is really lacking in a lot of areas, such as the app always writing out the pronunciation of kanji in letters, rather than in Japanese hiragana or katakana. That kind of reinforcement towards memorizing the characters is exactly the kind of thing that helps make reading in Japanese more of an automatic process, rather than a more conscious one. Duolingo can be a somewhat decent tool for some extra studying, but I've seen a lot of people who feel as if they are going to learn a language to fluency with it, simply because they aren't well enough aware of all of the different aspects of language acquisition that Duolingo fails to offer. I have also noticed that a lot of people who use Duolingo a lot get kinda aggressive if I recommend they look into getting some textbooks as well, probably because doing that would take away the gamified nature of the process
I think Duolingo does not work equally well for every language. It does help a lot, in my opinion, to get the first listening “feel” or the general idea for any of them; whereas text book or 1:1 lessons are mandatory to be fairly good at most of them. To me it s the intense pushy owl what makes it special xD. It s hard to miss a day if you got the widget in the phone. Nothing is 100% for everybody, we have to make it work for us. I swear no owl is pointing at me with a gun ti say this :)
@@Maribetulait’s definitely mostly useful for the major Romance languages like Spanish, but even then there comes a point pretty early on where you’re much better off just trying to do things in the language and looking up grammar explanations for whatever you don’t know
Duolingo is okay for practicing listening and saying. For more complex languages like Polish, you absolutely need additional sources to understand what the heck is going on when nouns, even proper nouns, change Form depending on their function in a sentence. So I did buy a book about Polish verbs (oh Goddess, the verbs...) and recommended by a commenter, and I have Wikipedia on speed dial. I'm so angry and sad that the comments are no longer accessible. That right there showed me that getting people to learn a new language came a distant third to separating them from their money. Duolingo is now pay to win.
Duolingo is a huuuuuge time sink. It takes way more time to learn thing on duo than it is to learn them with a textbook. I think most people know that in the end, and being suggested a textbook reminds them of how little they know with respect of how much time they spent "learning".
tbf duolingo japanese kind of sucks.
i speak japanese and tried it out of curiosity because i learned some useful basic italian with it, but the jp course was not a great experience.
they also changed or removed so many things that made me like the app that i just deleted it.
One of the greatest videos I've seen in a long long while man. Amazing writing, editing, music, concepts. Great job man, I'm glad to live in the same timeline as you.
Dude your videos are so well-crafted and thought out! I wish I had half the creativity you seem to have. I can just tell how much effort and care goes into each of them. There's always something important to be taken away from them. Please don't quit your day job!
Such an amazing video! I’ve been thinking about gamification for a while now and the tactics used by various companies to keep me addicting has had such a net negative to my life. Ive was wondering how a tool like this could be used for more positive means but at the end of the day overcoming challenges that life brings us without looking for an easy way out is what will be the most fulfilling
The name "Getting over it" is a play on words to describe the whole game. You're physically getting over physical obstacles, but you are also getting over the punishment of being sent all the way back just because you bumped your desk...
You hate the punishment, but you get over it, and you emerge victorious because you got over it.
And then somehow, speed-run it 😂
Great analysis. The obscure metaphors just made it even more original. Great casual jokes ie. the "Pikachu."
I watched this because I'm noticing my clients with autism (and others) get sucked into this predatory gamification A LOT. Most people probably think it's easy to spot the grenade, but when you consider that their primary target audience is actually unable to understand how they're being manipulated, this gets even darker.
It was also amazing how you circled all the way back to Prosperity.
Love how you always touch upon so many different topics. The gamification thing I have been seeing lately especially for studying, what helps people tracking your progress but it was working that well for me which made me feel bad so I am glad to see this video and sometimes you need to hard things. But university kinda feels like a game like there is 4 years in each one there is like quests in the form of essays and exams when you complete them you advance to the next level slowly climbing up getting harder and harder and the gratification you get at the end you have finished all the hard levels or just all of them aka you graduate. I am like I just need to do this essay this exam to move on 😅.
I remember hearing about Zombies, Run! like 10 years ago and thinking it was a super cool idea that could get me into running.
10 years later, I still do not run.
I had a feeling that was going to be the zombie aspect. Tried ZR once and it taught me I had asthma
I hate gamification, it's everything I hate about games (competition, ranking, pointless "achievements", rewards, etc) everything that makes it feel like work and not play; and none of the fun (exploring, creating stuff, immersion, etc). Most AAA games these days has so much "gamification" elements, that I rarely finish them because it quickly starts to feel like work.
Earlier when I used to study calculus in school, I always wondered - 'Why am I studying it when I'm hardly going to use this in day to day life?'.
The point of doing hard or difficult problems of calculus was not about the application for me, now that I realise. It was about to teach me the lesson that if I can do hard things like calculus, I might be able to do other hard things in life as well.
“Journey before destination.”
We be gamifying yt comments lol 😂
On side note, always been a fan of habitica and other life gamifying apps... This is a pretty eye opening video 🙌
Howdy! I’ve been following your videos for a while and they have helped me and my friends grow, heal, and set goals for ourselves. I wanted to mention, I’m a counselor in training and “your head is a houseboat” changed my perspective on counseling. I hadn’t found a counseling model that worked for me after 10 years in therapy and after reading your book and recognizing how much it helped me I started looking for therapeutic models that would let me use a fancy professional version of your book as a counselor. Anyways I found something called “internal family systems” and it has almost all the same concepts with a different delivery. I have been studying it a ton and I want to use a mixture of IFS and your book in my sessions someday. Thank you cam! Also don’t trip about the email thing with the alphabet superset. 2 days of spam emails is worth getting to Participate in such a cool project. Have a nice day
Dude, this is profound. Well done. I loved when you flashed back to Lizy, because that story right there is WOW, and my brain was so satisfied when you brought back the answer to Pokémon.
Gamification only works if the game is one someone wants to play. Every time something has been gamified, it turns into a game I wouldn't want to play even if it was a 'real' game.
I think its because i don't find those elements in games to be fun, but when things get gamified it immediately turns me off and i leave it.
That pikachu reveal caught me off guard in the best way 😆
This is an absolutely insanely well made video. I am studying education and have many lectures on gamification and the use of games to effectively teach children. But this was a far more comprehensive dive into the topic than any of those have archieved in a whole semester. I could tell when watching it, how much work, effort an thought had gone into every second. I will advise my professor to watch this video, cause I'm sure you deserve a phd for that ;)
The answer to Shrodinger’s Catch is to press X when it pops up to catch the grenade and throw it back
This was so incredibly informational and genuinely fascinating. I know the word inspirational gets tossed around a lot, but by the end of this video, I felt that the call to action messaging spurred me to start thinking more critically about gamification and left me feeling hopeful and inspired to make change both in my own life and others' lives. Thank you for being vulnerable on the internet by sharing your struggles and how you continually overcome them. Looking forward to more high caliber videos!!
I have this game called anti-monopoly, which is literally the landlord game you describe.
So in the end. Her game actually got made...
I guess there is a message somewhere in there
The thing with Getting Over It
I spent 8 and a half hours climbing that mountain, it sucked, but I did it
And then I asked myself "Could I do it again?"
And that time it took 4 hours
And then 2 hours
And it kept getting shorter and shorter, now I can climb the mountain in 15 ish minutes
A game that frustrated me never became more fun, the controls still suck and there is no real reward for getting to the top, but it did become familiar, and with familiarity you bring comfort
So become familiar with the things that frustrate you, because eventually you'll find a sense of comfort in those things
This is also how businesses concince workers to work in hellish conditions, they become familiar with the abuse and start to feel like they can't live without it (Yes this applies to domestic abuse)
So it's often a bad thing to find comfort in these things, but it's important to be able to recognize when something is toxic or not, and use that mechanic of familiarity in something tough on the things that won't actually hurt you
Hey Cam. This is some of your best work, ever. Fantastic video, and it's genuinely inspiring me.
I love how you can talk about hard things and end up being really uplifting.
I recently got my girlfriend a kindle, she was telling me about how it shows your percentage through reading a book rather than what page you're on. She said that it helps her to stay motivated to read and actually finish a book.
I just read the rules of "Landlord's Game and Prosperity" (Very thinly veiled capitalism and communism)
It's ironic to push communism as the anti-monopoly because in practice it's the ultimate "Monopoly", unlike what the propaganda repeatedly tells the population it's not a government that owns the businesses, it's more of a corporation-government hybrid. A lot of western countries are aware they have church-state seperation but less aware they have business-state seperation too, which is why it's considered corruption when the two mix. In practice any government owned business is another way of saying someone in government abused their position to give a friend of theirs a monopoly over an industry. Governments don't start a government owned company from scratch, they bring in someone they trust with proven experience to run it for them, which is the same thing as saying they pick the head of an existing company and give them total power over their industry, only what would have been a total monopoly is only a mere government department. It's hard to get more "Monopoly" than that, a monopoly of monopolies.
gamification … simply look at schools where you would be graded according to understanding basics, and later get judged on those grades based on how well you can manipulate others
If EVERY player has doubled the money they started with, they 'printed' money, leading to inflation. Or they exploited a third party as a conglomerate. Neither are considered prosperity.
Nice to see you back. We appreciate your insights as always.
I love your content, it's always informative, exposes unethical practices but doesn't dwell in hopelessness, provides a positive perspective and teaches people how to empower themselves. You can see how you've managed to harness your own empowerment in overcoming addiction and use it to uplift those around you. Thank you for your hard work, the fruits of that labour are a positive influence on the world and you should be commended. I wish you the best for the future and believe that whatever you do you'll do it right. Peace ✌️
LOVE Schrodinger's catch! Perfect way to symbolize gamification of stuff.
It’s scary to me that things have gotten so bad that duolingo is being used as a GOOD example and not a preditory one
Dude, I'm actually working on a gamified self-help journaling system of sorts that aids in gamifying life, and I'm hoping it will snowball once I start putting it out there. It's a lot of work since there are other aspects of it -- like creating a new writing system based on, and inspired by, the syllabics of the Cree language, but also uses futhark runes and other languages' symbols, while having it still follow English orthography and accommodate different accents and languages. -- that have prolonged its debut (plus going solo dolo on it hasn't helped with that either). I use many gamification tactics, even predatory ones, in it to entice people to keep going; to keep pushing forward just to see what's behind the next roll of the dice.
Anyways, great vid as always.
i actually currently hold the Any% Glitchless Never-Pay-For-The-Tram Speedrunning world record
Hi! Just watched your video. I studied gamification applied to adult education for my bachelor's thesis, and I can see that you took your time researching the subject because you didn't confuse it with serious games or didn't think that the only point of gamification is to make things boring. Now, I know that you probably won't research this topic further since you have other projects, but I'm here to tell that even in the academic world the focus is research is shifting from the effects that single game design elements have on a person or how a person's characteristics influence the efficacy of gamification... toward to how to use these elements and techniques to improve quality of life.
My work on how to use gamification (at work, to learn better) was finally published recently, and I hope that this video inspires others to reserach on how to use gamification, if transparency is the main dimension of ethical gamification like you think it is, and other things. To be fair, there are more serious challenges to tackle right now, but shedding light on more subtle things is not wasted effort. Thank you for your video!
Everything about your channel and the content you put together is AMAZING!!! I stumbled across your channel a couple weeks ago, and have enjoyed so many of your past videos. THANK YOU!
No amount of gamification is gonna make me want to work out
Another manipulative thing with the Tinder Super Like is that since it's a finite resource you have to manage, the customer feels in control of it themselves, meaning they will probably keep buying them
At the end of the day, replace the extrinsic motivators of gamification with intrinsic motivators of doing something for the sake of doing it.
Lol me fighting ZeromusEX in FFXIV just because I want to parse and look at big numbers (which I already have some, I suppose).
There's no real reason for me to fight that thing, I already received everything I could use, I just want to fight it because I can.
Life is a real-life Monopoly game. Start with a small amount of cash, can't buy new property, so your only solution is to go in circles, collect a measly paycheck, and avoid jail. Oh, and you have to constantly pay others, who own the property you're visiting. Oh, and you can't leave, because the game is not done with you yet - you're going to play until you are dead. No, you can't quit earlier.
Biggest take away for me is 'learning to enjoy the hard things'. I really enjoyed this Doco Cam. I had no idea about the history of Monopoly, it was very interesting and not to mention, very eye opening! Absolutely loving the 26 series and can't wait for the next!
Treating research as a rare item collection quest is just hitting me so hard right now as a great idea. :D
The politics and competition part blew my mind a little bit, where I know it is popular to say politics is a spectator sport, but now it just made so much more sense because its one or the other, rather than a different method entirely
I use gamification as a social media manager for a charitable organization. People love an achievable goal and measurements when it comes to donations. The key to most fundraisers is to state the goal, measure it, put a time limit on it, and give little rewards like thank you notes.
WELL done.. I worked in gamification for the first 5 years of my career with a focus on research and I quit when I realized this harsh truth. It removes the INTRINSIC VALUE of simply doing these things.
As with all your videos, this one sparked internal questions I didn't even realize I had. Thank you for doing your thing in your way.
I get a little dopamine hit whenever I see a new struthless has dropped. So far they've always delivered.
Love this talk, and correct warning. It's not about playing people, but
how to get people to play, read play the change?
Know that wanting to get anywhere can be (ab)used as a fishhook.
Don't follow any fishhook, except the ones you chose.