More than arguing that Leo belongs in the wild, I would like for people to think about where the stories that permeate our identities come from. If I remade this video, I would put a heavier focus on why we keep telling this story, where it comes from, and what that says about us.
I forgot that the Kipling who wrote The White Man's Burden to encourage the US to "civilize" my people was the same Kipling who wrote The Jungle Book and I had to pause for a good 10 minutes to contain my rage lmao. Definitely seeing the Mowgli trope in a different light.
Your comment here reminds me of Folding Idea's "I Accidentally Did a Colonialism in Minecraft." Even when it's totally unintentional on a dev's part, it's good to think about these tropes and discuss their continued presentation in the media we consume.
I literally had no idea!!! It’s honestly nauseating to think about… I’m very lucky that the jungle book wasn’t really part of my childhood, I know it was for some people
I'm a poc but honestly, it made sense to me that there were mostly white people there - the island is not too far south of Stardew Valley. We are *not* going on a trip around the world. We're going to an island that is, at most, a couple hundred miles away. You can travel there, spend a good chunk of time there, and then get home fairly quickly _in the same day._ For comparison, the fastest a ship can get to Hawaii from California is between 4 and 5 days. This is more akin to taking a ferry from Dover, UK, to Calais, France, which takes about an hour and a half. People don't often realize just how much of a difference a hundred or so miles can make in the way the environment works. It's the difference between having to rely on beer for your alcohol in the UK for hundreds of years because it wasn't temperate enough to grow grapes for wine like down in France. _Seriously._ Consider this: Willy already knew about this island. He took us straight there. He sailed us straight to a dock that had _already been there._ Looking at the southern Ginger Island area, looks like the posts for a couple of buildings were supposed to be there. It's likely it was going to be a resort before falling into disrepair, probably due to the war with the Gotoro Empire. Leo was a fairly young kid when he ended up there - he likely was originally headed to the island with his parents with the intention to develop it into a resort - possibly at Mr. Qi's behest - and no one realized what happened to him and his family due to the ongoing war. Clearly we didn't usurp the island of a lost indigenous human population. Pirates had been making use of it, due to it being largely abandoned, but other than Birdie who decided to retire there à la Linus, no one was intentionally living there. Perhaps Ginger Island is not really large enough to support a self-sustainable indigenous population of humans. Birds? Sure. Frogs? Sure. Deadly monsters plus one dwarf in a lava-filled volcano? Sure. But humans? No idea - I'm not sure how much fresh water is readily available or accessible. As for clunky speech, whether by Leo or, say, the Gourmand Frog, eloquence is not a sign of intelligence. To quote a favorite line of mine from the Keanu Reeves movie, A Walk in the Clouds: "Don't think that just because I speak with an accent, I think with an accent." ua-cam.com/video/sMfI5e4VVkE/v-deo.html Honestly, if you rarely use a language yet are still able to communicate with it, that's pretty darned impressive.
The only thing I disagree with is that Leo wasn’t as eloquent and gets more eloquent as you go on. Leo was always eloquent. We can see that with the 2 heart event when he begins with “I know I’m not really a bird, [players name]”. His dialog here is perfect and he pretty much reveals that he uses all of this as a defense mechanism because he doesn’t have human friends and it makes him feel less lonely. At least that’s what I took from it. Just pointing it out :)
Little kids left alone will become very unused to speaking. If he learned to speak before being abandoned, however, he’ll pick it up again once he finds people
Race, and colonialism aside, Leo is a child who lives alone on an island with birds. It's not about imposing anyone's culture or values it's about making sure that the literal child is safe and taken care of.
But he was fine on his own was he not? And for a hot minute too, when he almost forgot how to speak a language. That's also just us underestimating kids like we always used to do. (Kids, Women (not so much anymore, but sadly still quite alot), Immigrants (in modern days) and, well Animals are the 4 groups people tend to take away agency from and assume they need x to be taken care of...which again is very much us imposing our culture/belief onto them, there is no way around that. The Kid was fine! However!! Big However! As Leapalot also pointed out, Leo wanted this. He decided to go to the Valley. And as a Kid his age, he still learns through mimicking the world around him (which is why he started talking "bird" in the first place) which leads to his change. Like literally every comment disagreeing and saying something like this, is basically portraying what Leapalot is talking about in the video haha.
That's fair for the literal reading of the text but we should indeed keep in mind the tropes and concepts that may or may not have influenced his story arc as well as readings of the text that are themselves influenced by these tropes.
@@JinsanSama But Leo wasn't really fine, yes he had food water and shelter but he was lonely, extremely so. For humans which are highly social animals that is a big problem.
@@JinsanSama but he isn't fine his needs are not being met intellectually and socially. He desires human connection which he doesn't have. Children need loving parents. It fucks a kid up when they don't have that. He straight up has no one to support him emotionally. No friends to play with.
i don't mind leo in general but like why... WHY can't i adopt him? and i have to let him live with linus who AT THE START OF THE GAME complains that people THROW ROCKS at his tent? that's my biggest deal with leo at least
I know right? Despite my conflicted feelings about ginger island as a whole, the entire story makes me want to marry Willy and adopt Leo (pelican town department of children and family services is yet another place where Mayor Lewis is not doing his job.) Edit: I mean seriously, only needs 3 more heart scenes and some marriage dialogue, and I could see Willy being a great Easter egg Bachelor if he was only available if you took the riverland or beach farm, which both have major drawbacks for people who are mostly interested in profit.
@@CandiceLemonSharks i think it would be so cute Also be because despite me being only 20 i find Abigail, Sam and a couple of others way too... Like they don't act like adults who can marry? THAT'S MY OPINION i like em as characters But i think willy would make a lovely elder love (Also i want to marry Caroline and steal her from Pierre so baaaaaad)
Well, I disagree. I think the sole reason that they wanted him to go to the town is because he's a CHILD alone in the jungle. And he misses having human interactions.
Totally fair! I think Leo, specifically, will be better off in the town as well. But the recurring themes of saving people who are different by civilizing them are unconscious to a lot of people, and worth examining.
@@Leapalot Yes I understand, I just don't think it was the case here. Leo isn't a native from some jungle civilisation, he's a white young boy who ended up in this island because of an accident. I think it would be concerning if he was from a tribe and they wanted him to go to their city to offer him a "better life", but that's not what happened. He's just a lost child who misses other humans. And they don't force him to follow them and they don't say "don't ever come back to this island".
@@luckyduchesse8924 I think that somewhat misses the point by just reading the literal text, which, while that is a fair reading, doesn't mean the other readings are incorrect either.
I never once thought I was forcing this kid to "conform to societal norms" He's already been used to society, the kid can speak English fluently, and the reason we're taking him back to the valley is because, ignoring the fact that he misses people and wants to hang out with other kids, he's a kid. A literal child living alone on an island lmao The same island that has a volcano filled with flying pockets of Magma
I mean those parrots practically owns the island. If they can group up and construct a house faster than Robin, they can easily swarm some unwanted guests and leaving only pile of bones behind. So I think they simply "let" you use the island because you're a nice walnut guy, any destructive behaviors? Your funeral.
It’s a small uninhabited island with very few people on it. The main cast of SDV is like 30 something characters; why add a whole civilisation for something that’s not even the focus of the game? About Leo: This is not taking a native child from his home. Leo was raised by his parents lol, he is human and doesn’t deserve to live essentially alone on this island. Isn’t he aged 6-8? Leo even says he misses society and knows that he’s pretending to be a bird as a defence. There’s nothing wrong with taking him to the valley; if there was a civilisation he was culturally close to than yeah ig. But he’s a elementary school kid living alone on an island. I just think this video didn’t really address the game, rather people’s speculations. IF there was a society on Ginger Island then Leo would be more controversial. But there isn’t? It’s basically a massive late game side quest, and it doesn’t need to have more than 6+ characters. I understand wanting representation, but wouldn’t it be better to have a variety of POC in the valley and not over complicate the island? Idrk, just didn’t enjoy this video as much as I thought I would.
Thanks for the comment. I think Leo moving to the valley is best for his development. He'll be better off with other humans for one, but also you're right that he was already coming from a fairly natural background. It's the archetype that bothers me. The casual way that we continue to build on really troublesome narratives because they're just floating around in the back of our head. Leo (to me) is just a reminder that we internalize those stories and don't see the problem with them.
Interesting analysis though I don’t know how much I entirely agree with it. While Leo’s story mirrors those narratives in a messy way, I can understand that concerned ape was trying to lean into an orphaned child trope rather than any sort of white savior ones, and it is handled with a bit more nuance there. Beyond that, I honestly think that the island having an broader indigenous population to interact with aside from magical animals that don’t equivalently reference people would have been a bad idea. Everything you said about settling into the abandoned farm house, expanding your presence on the island, and even the game’s main mechanic of transforming land into a profitable, agricultural space would have been significantly more uncomfortable if placed into an explicitly colonial narrative. Given that perspective, and that the way Leo is handled can already be potentially read as altering someone’s culture, imagine how much worse that could have been? Imagine if Leo had a family of people and not just parrots, the underlying discomfort you had from this video’s reading would have been so much worse. The nuance required to make that narrative of a rich foreign farmer moving in and taking over land for profit not seem disturbingly colonialist would be incredibly challenging in that context. I don’t think Stardew’s basic systems of occasional cutscenes and limited character dialogue can handle that level of nuance. I don’t think it would have been comfortable for the players, even if their characters relationship with a larger native population improved over time in a meaningful way. Even the idea of having the farmer move in and make friends with the indigenous people while still utilizing their lands for resources could easily be a slippery slope. So, while I understand the desire for fascinating cultural diversity in the world of Stardew Valley, I have to agree with concerned ape’s choice not to implement it here. There is no way in my mind that this game’s mechanics of money making, agriculture, and expansion would be capable of telling a narrative that would not be at least somewhat colonialist if the island was a populous and complex place that we asserted ourselves into. I don’t blame Concerned Ape in the slightest for sticking to magical creatures and transient groups. Yes, it avoids colonialist discussions, but frankly, given the structure of the game’s design and storytelling, that narrative couldn’t be adequately displayed here. This isn’t calling the video bad or anything, I love your style and it’s important we engage with the themes of what we enjoy, I just don’t agree on expanding the population of ginger island from a mostly abandoned spot being a good idea. I do think including diversity in games is important, but the care with which it is implemented is doubly so.
Totally fair! I don't think every game needs to address every social issue. It would have been an enormous amount of work to implement that, and even with the utmost care, there would certainly have been issues. Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate the insight!
Yeah I'm not a fan of the "the game is just avoiding colonialist narratives" Yeah, no duh, it's a laid back farming simulator lmao Yes it delves into dark topics like broken families and addictions, but a massive statement about racism would be definitely a step too far. The magical creatures and goofy characters fit the style of the game much more
I kindly disagree. I don't feel that giving a stranded child who lost their parents a chance to learn and make friends and basically reconnect with where they originally belonged is imposing our values on them. Lio has just as much freedom as he did before, nor is Linus or Willy treating him like a lesser human being that needs the "whiteman's saving". I think trying to compare his situation to actual people of different ethnicity and culture being taken against their will by white man is at best, far fetched. Stay safe out there, and hope you have a good weekend.
I think it is a far leap to say that adopting an orphaned child found living by themself is wrong. Leo isn't from a different culture he's from the same culture the player was. Just got cut off from it by unfortunate circumstances.
I've heard people say they've wanted to adopt Leo. Honestly, if I gained a lot of friendship with him, I'd probably me more like a fun aunt then anything else
I would have loved to have been able to adopt him/become family. It would have been nice for him to have ties to and be with his own kind, maybe a second home between being with the parrots and a human family.
Not a fan of this analysis. Leo is a child. He is a minor that has been abandoned. It has nothing to do with trying to change him or be better, but he is still a minor that needs protection and education isn’t bad.
You make good points, but they are misdirected here. The update COULD have done a lot of things, but it didn't. And it's not a subconscious representation of colonialism. Just some fun pirates on an island who didn't care enough to maintain their farm. (Also protecting and educating a child who lost his parents isn't indoctrination) Love you, Leap! ❤️
I don't know, the absence of a native civilization in the island sounds more like a game development decision to save time, Pelican Town and its NPCs have been there almost since day one and have been developing characters update after update. Adding a new NPC as well written now is not that easy, but adding a whole new native society? I think we are asking too much, to this point it would be not an expansion but instead a whole different game, and honestly I think that Concerned Ape is done with Stardew Valley
Definitely would make sense to draw the line somewhere. You can't pour your entire existence into a game when you want to move on to other projects. From a technical standpoint, limited NPCs make sense.
yeah, I already hate that I need everybody in Town to love me to achieve perfection and I would hate even more to have 30 more people to love me, so, that probably was a game design choice
to people saying "we shouldn't look so deep" and "stop explaining logic, the game is just for fun" -- you are missing the point. games and media reflect our views as a culture, whether they're bad or good. leap isn't calling CA or SDV bad for any reflections here, just examining the ugly history that makes them. we have to examine these things and learn as to not repeat them, & to get better as a whole. it's especially crucial if you're white and unaware of colonialism & racism on any level other than "it's bad" and "it doesn't exist today" -- bc they still do, and ignoring that isn't helpful to the communities that these things still actively harm. these are things that you have to actively be aware of and fight. that said.. thanks for this, leap. keep it up.
Pretty much! I think CA is a fantastic human being. He made a wholesome as heck game, and he's never been anything but kind and supportive of every person who talks to him. I think Stardew Valley is an amazing game! It's an enormous part of my life. But we just play these stories in our heads without thought sometimes, and they're worth talking about!
I 100% agree. While it’s good to have media where we can relax our brain and not think of this stuff, it’s also good to be critical of the media we surround ourselves with. Nowadays a lot of our knowledge on the outside world is from the media so media influences our brains more than ever. Of course CA did nothing wrong. Leap is just looking into the cultural origins of stories like the “wild child”. It’s similar to cowboy culture where the actual historical facts are different than the stories we see now. Of course it’s not bad to like these stories. They’re heavily romanticized. CA thought the idea would be fun for us to play with and I agree, it’s fun.
Agreed. Sure, it's "just fiction", but fiction allows us to explore concepts that we haven't encountered in our own lives. And fiction can absolutely impact our biases in ways we don't recognize until we examine it.
Something really bothered me about what you said. That we just come in and own the land. No we don't. We have to pay for it. We scavange, we work, we solve rediculous simon says puzzles, all for this island's currency. Wallnuts. The birds who own the land now ask for a price, you pay it. Also Leo living in a tree house and going into another tree house isn't exactly leaving the wild. He's finding his roots, which is something a lot of displaced children do regardless of the circumstance. Also Leo isn't doing any better or worse than the other birds according to their culture. (Which is dictated by walnuts.) He's doing well, but not better. All he gets from moving to Stardew is socilization with humans and an education. His cloths don't change, his likes don't change, his living arrangements are practically the same. The only difference is he now has a human gardian in Linus. One of his bird family even stays with him. Now keep in mind I'm not trying to harp on you or say your wrong with your questioning of stories similar to this, but I feel you kinda missed the pourpose of Leo's story by focusing on colonialism. Which is still a problem but a separate issue from the one presented in the story.
I'm not really sure on this one. Wild animals have raised children in the past. Which hasn't gone well for the kids to be honest. It usually ends in the child getting detrimentally ill, and passing on. It's an abandoned child who needs help. Which isn't really a culture. It's a tragedy.
Well I haven't finished the part with the island and I have only one heart with him, but everytime I see him, he seems sad and don't want to talk, also being alone (with no other human I mean) isn't great for anyone. I think it would have been as bad as you said if it was a family or an adult, but if I see a little boy living on the wood, I'm going to bring him back to a home were he can eat and get medication, even if he was happy among deer and birds. (my english is probably bad sorry x) )
The "Mowgli" trope seems completely wrong here. Leo is a frequently sad little boy who tries to forget that he once had human parents who were lost at sea, and who although he loves his bird family knows he is not a bird and feels very definitely that he doesn't really belong in their society. He says this emphatically more than once, even though he does contradict this idea occasionally. He shows great interest in the idea of there being other kids where the farmer lives. He is lonely, purposeless, and has "sad" days. There is no indication whatever that he is running the island or is superior to the animals there, rather the opposite. The parrots who do run the island are taking care of him, and he is in the role of their child (or pet) rather than their master. They are happy for him when he finds other humans who can return him to the society of his own kind. Once he goes to Stardew Valley, with the help and the blessing of his bird family, he is clearly much happier. Other than the Stardew adults educating him in their own particular skills, nobody is trying to change him or shows any criticism of him as "uncivilized." (And considering how much of his human language and life he unrealistically remembers, he isn't particularly "uncivilized," just inexperienced.) Whether any of this should be seen as good or bad, it is what the game tells us in Leo's own words and actions. We should really go to the game itself to find out what it is saying, rather than imposing external cliches and 19th-century expectations on it. By the way, the abandoned farm is very possibly the creation of the stranded sailor who wrote the journal pages we pick up from time to time. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense (and why doesn't Birdie live there?), but I guess he grew lots of garlic, pink melons, and wheat, within the lifespan of an elderly frog... That doesn't explain the abandoned resort of course. But the impression I have is that there was never a human community on the island, just transients. And dwarves, who are likely responsible for creating the forge, if any humanoid is.
birdie doesn't live there beacause the stranded man was very likely her husband, hence the shipwreck right below the farm and birdie saying that she is there guarding her husband's remains
I am slightly disappointed, good video though. Leo came from civilization and even mentions that he isn't as far behind as expected when he starts school because he remembers some of the things he learned before his parents passed. It is a more tragic story that he was old enough to understand and learn school age things and lost his parents and was alone to cope.
Totally fair. I think Leo in particular will do very well in the valley. It's the accumulated use of this archetype that worries me. But you're definitely correct that he came from a fairly typical background.
@@Leapalot that is true and is telling of our past behavior but I think as a whole we are realizing that we shouldn't force our ways on others as a whole. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it
I think the comparisons the community has made of Leo's arc to colonialism is really reaching. Leo is an *orphaned child* stranded on the island alone with no one else to talk to other than the birds, and he makes the decision himself later in-game to move to Pelican Town because he wanted human interaction. Colonialism doesn't allow the freedom of choice.
That video got much more serious than I thought it would. I agree with the most of what was said, but I wonder if the Leo part is true - I never heard anyone talk about Leo as a wild one who needs to be tamed and civilized, he is an orphan child stranded on the island...
Fair enough. He's just kind of a bystander here. It really just brought me back to those archetypes of little dude lost at sea, rising up to be the champion and commanding the animals.
@@Leapalot Yeah, after this video I totally see that uncomfortable parralel. I never been a fan of a works using this archetypes, so my mind just never went there. For me Leo's story was very straightforward - here is a child who has been surviving alone for who knows how long, player needs to adopt him immediately (or less preferably in terms of gameplay find his living relatives)
"Leo's entire story rotates around how you need to at least play along with civilized society to be happy" No it doesn't? He had no major issues and seems pretty happy living on the island without any humans around at all. After he leaves he directly says, as you show while saying this, that he feels happy about his memories on the island. He's curious about you and where you're from and comes to hang out in the valley. He's not escaping an awful unhappy life of uncivilized despair
Your perspective makes sense, and I respect it. One counter-point I would bring up though is that Leo remembers and misses his parents, and he likely lived his early years in a civilization similar to the valley (or maybe Zuzu city). He also tells the farmer that he knows he isn’t a bird and feels like he doesn’t belong anywhere. When Leo comes to the valley, he is reunited with the life he lost when his parents died, but he discovers that he can still maintain his place on the island. Rather than trying to change Leo’s culture, it seems to me that Leo is given the chance to regain his old human culture while still maintaining his place in the parrot’s culture. On the other hand, I agree that I would have loved to see CA’s take on an island civilization.
Though this did feel me with dread, I am so glad you mention it. I had a lot of preconceptions that I didn't even realize I had. Honestly, thank you a lot for making this video that really looks at everything with a lens I didn't even realize was needed.
I have to say I can see where you're coming from, but your perspective is very americacentric. You are looking for ties between US cultural issues and a fictional world in a farming sim game, which I do not think works out very well. Stardew Valley does present certain crtique of corporationism and presents some argument for humanity's return to nature and slower, kinder way of life. It does not however touch upon American cultural issues with race. As I said, I can understand why your thoughts went there, but I do think you read too much into a chill farming sim. Plus, in your analysis of Leo, you kept again a very American point of view, which makes little sense to any viewer who doesn't share your cultural identity.
I feel like if the game played around with the ideas of colonization there would've been an intense and immediate backlash, even if it was to teach about it or show the results from it.
You're not wrong! It's a touchy subject, and there's not an easy answer. I'm not saying CA should have done things a specific way, I just think we should take some time and recognize where some of these archetypes really come from.
You really did a great job on this video, and I've had some of the same thoughts too. Also tbh I would have loved it if there had been an Indigenous people on Ginger Island. Then instead of taking over and colonizing you learn to coexist and share the land, and you could trade with them.
The lack of diversity in Star Dew really gets to me. There’s more mythological creatures than poc or disabled people in Star Dew. And the disabled people kind of fall into stereotypical tropes (all being “crotchety” or “mean” men)
YEAH! That's something I feel has been echoed to CA and back again, and I feel as though he may be trying to change for his new game. Can't get too excited, but it's something worth hoping for that he may include more positive representation!
Wow! What a take. I really appreciate Linus' involvement in getting him to Stardew Valley, but when I played this I took it to mean less about "culturing" him and more that, as he got to know the farmer, he realized he's more lonely than he thought he was. Interdependence is important and Leo got some of that from the parrots for sure, but I think other drives-- including companionship, like wanting it with Jas-- were also what drew him to Stardew Valley too. (Jas is also the only female child around his age but that's neither here nor there) This is all tricky stuff to unpack and I agree there absolutely are some hints to the Jungle book trope. I also think that whenever we move to a new society we have to adjust to the norms. Us as the farmer are included in that and it's obvious in the heart system we play by. I'll stop here before I get too existential with the heart system and society 😅 Thank you for making this and having me think about this a bit more!
Bruh the island is literally only populated by parrots and the island is basically 2 minutes away from the man island on the map, this is just trying to add depth and racism into something that clearly is not asking for it. Edit: I just generally do not get the point this guy is trying to make, Leo is the one who wanted to move then proceeded to have the same life style as he did beforehand, just with human contact.
Hey thanks for the comment and thanks for checking it out. My point was not that we should leave Leo to live with parrots on the island. It was that we unconsciously repeat these archetypes that are rooted in some nasty places, and we should be a little more thoughtful about them. Leo's not Tarzan or Mowgli, but the parallels are hard to miss. That's all! I still love the game, and still respect CA a ton. I just want to bring attention to where some of these tropes came from.
So white kids aren't allowed to be abandoned in the wild in stories now without it being racist, even though there are plenty of real life examples? Not only that, but the colonialism point doesn't work if your character isn't white. And I say white in particular because that's the race you were gunning for. Honestly I think you are looking fat too deep into somthing that's just supposed to be a fun postage content. And for what? To tell people that they're racist for liking somthing that's got in my opinion, very little to do with race if anything at all. Not only that, but people don't know anything about extinct cultures and civilisations until someone discovers it. So I'm guessing people aren't allowed to be archaeologists any more either? That or cultures are better off staying dead than being discovered so they can be shared with the world. Seriously, none of this makes sense when you really think about it for just 5 seconds
Loved this video as someone of aboriginal descent ♡ I like that you are tackling the concept of colonialism in this and it's something we should all strive to become more comfortable talking about and knowing what it is/what it looks like and to not have others impose what they think is right or necessary on others ♡ Thanks for the A+ content as always!
i completely understand where your coming from, but i think you missed the mark here. the key difference is that leo always wanted to be in civilization. he wanted to be around other people and always knew he wasnt a bird. not only that, but leo *is* incredibly intelligent. if he was able to remember how to speak english after not doing so for a long time, he’s obviously not going to be able to speak it well. but eloquence doesnt equate to intelligence. the fact that he can still speak english is incredibly impressive, especially for a child. a child who, by the way, is living on a dangerous island with parrots as his only guardians. of course we want to take him back to civilization where there are adults who can monitor and take care of him, thats not safe for a child.
More than arguing that Leo belongs in the wild, I would like for people to think about where the stories that permeate our identities come from. If I remade this video, I would put a heavier focus on why we keep telling this story, where it comes from, and what that says about us.
I’m recently just now playing through the new update (I know, like a year too late, but hey, Genshin brainrot I suppose). While I agree with some of your speculation here, and it’s definitely something to consider, there are also some key elements that sort of take Leo away from the picture of it. For one, Leo doesn’t act like or treat himself as the head of the animal species or anything like that. He comments in the beginning on the hierarchy for birds that get ahold of and eat golden walnuts, and how he hopes to eventually be seen as an experienced/elder parrot. He speaks of other creatures being dangerous and being cautious of things. He sees himself, albeit as a defense mechanism as indicated in his 2 heart event, as one of the birds, not a leader of them or anything of that sort, and the birds are the ones helping him thrive more than the other way around. So I think that already is a few steps away from the trope you’re referencing (where while the human characters of those stories deem the animals to be their family, they are also the ones solving problems for this animal family and or conquering risks that family faces, implying that the existence of a human in their communities made their lives better. The parrots seem pretty self sufficient and they were probably more than capable of taking care of themselves before Leo, with Leo, and after Leo leaves). The other part that differs is that, Leo knows he doesn’t belong - not just in a Disney esque “I’m not the other kids” trope, but quite literally so. He remembers his parents and that they died. He has some vague recollection of living with human society. He yearns to return to it, but is worried that he will no longer belong or about leaving his family behind. And, as you noted briefly, he chooses to leave and still considers himself part of the family he came from. And likewise we’re not taking a child away from his family to colonize him - we’re getting an abandoned child off of a potentially dangerous island where he’s lived off of walnuts, ginger and taro root for who knows how long and making sure he’s taken care of 😅 Now, why I don’t have the option to adopt him myself and take him in at the farm where he can come with me to ginger island as he pleases, I don’t know. Frankly I’d go through dozens of extra steps to make that happen because he’s a precious little bean and I’d a take him in in a heartbeat lol
my big problem with this video is that you kind of proved yourself wrong. it WOULD be messed up if we industrialized an inhabited island. but it wasn't inhabited, and that was an intentional decision. my second problem is that Leo isn't really on top of the social order. he lives with the birds as equals. also, he CHOOSES to come to the island, and he continues his lifestyle there with Linus, just with more human interaction, which is honestly good for him. he is a CHILD. one who was orphaned on an island and was cut off from the rest of the world for who knows how long. i see the point you're trying to make, but Leo is not part of the problem you're addressing. his arc is about a child being allowed to be a child again.
There is nothing disturbing about Leo's story arc and I'm disappointed you chose to focus on a perceived tacet acceptance of Kipling's "White Man's Burden" as opposed to Leo's history such as who his parents were and grandparents might be. There is absolutely no need for Concerned Ape to introduce a story line where the civilized take over the native's home. Besides, the volcano cave insinuates the island was inhabited by another civilization long ago. It would have been nice to discover more about the more recent inhabitants and the origins of the island farm in the game as well. Regardless, I think you missed an opportunity to explore Leo instead of proselytizing on the ills of "civilized" versus "native".
Through the lens of every terrible thing the dole family did to Hawaii, I am *extremely* uncomfortable with the idea of a building pineapple empire (or ancient fruit or whatever) empire on the dream of an uninhabited (now) island paradise, free for the taking. Every time my banana trees need a shake it's like...whose land am I on? Who am I exploiting here? There's literally a livestock sanctuary in Hawaii while native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders make up half of Hawaii's homeless population. To say nothing of the beachfront highrise hotels and telescopes on sacred land. I don't know what changes would make me feel better about the colonialism woven through the ginger island arc but I'm hopeful that the the modding community takes up the banner of doing *something* with it. I respect ConcernedApe so much and yet I also wish he'd sought out a sensitivity reader early in drafting the story for 1.5. (Also as a white kid who watched a lot of Gullah Gullah Island growing up, the vibes given off by CA's dialectical choices for the gourmand frog are ... Not ... Great. Really not great. Reminds me of the choices that spurred antiracist backlash against JarJar Binks back in 1999.)
i haven't installed it, but there it a diverse ginger island mod on nexusmods that seems interesting !! it drew inspiration from a pacific islander's criticism of the 1.5 update, and rewrote pretty much everything there is to be about ginger island from what i could see in the preview images.
@@Valentina-mv2ux I'm definitely going to try it out on my (first!) modded playthrough--ive only played on switch so far. (My coordination in my left hand is really weak so I'm frustratingly bad at wasd controls--but I finally have a controller for PC now)
This has been my favorite of your character deep dives. I hadn't gotten far enough in my friendship with Leo to learn that he moved to Pelican Town, so when I heard you mention that I was shocked. It didn't feel good. It reminded me of the way white people have, for so long, tried to erase the native culture in children. After the yts staged a coup and overtook the Hawaiian Kingdom, teaching in Hawaiian was banned. The language is now classified as critically endangered by UNESCO. I know it's not the same. Leo is a child living alone in the Jungle. But so was Mowgli. which is why it brings to mind these uncomfortable ideas. (And as a Filipinx, fuck Rudyard Kipling.) So, I don't know what the answer is.... it's complicated. I think if CA had tried to make a POC native culture on the island that might've been a little uncomfortable as well, unless he hired someone else to do the writing and character design. We have other races in SV. I think if we had discovered a dwarven civilization living underground after finishing the volcano dungeon, that would've been super cool. I mean, who the heck built that forge?! Anyway, excellent video. Having a discourse about this subject is challenging and I very much respect you for making this video.
Thank you! You're right that it's just a difficult situation. I obviously don't have an answer. Yes, Leo will do better with Healthcare and running water. But it is still worth discussing where these stories we tell ourselves come from!
I didn't really like this video, as you got waayy too political for a game. However I understand this is how you make youe videos and I still like most of them and will continue to watch :)
I agree with a lot of your points. I think Leo's story arc is supposed to mirror Linus. Linus chose to live in the wild whereas Leo had it forced on him. When offered to leave the wild, Linus decided not to but Leo chose to leave the island.
So I've read the comments first and watched the video after. The comments made me feel like the video contains some crazy opinions far from what the ginger island really is. But after I've watched the video myself I was really surprised how has people reacted ... Although I don't agree with every point made. I believe the island have always been deserted except for dwarf civilization, parrots and pirates. The ginger island house was made by Birdie's husband, which is kind of mentioned in the journal scraps. So with exception of proffesor Snail, who is obsessed with his research to the degree he goes alone to unknown island, can be the island NPCs seen as castaways and the island as deserted. However I see all of the other points valid. I really like the concept of ginger island and I enjoy playing it but it's kind of wierd we can use the land for farming even though it's not ours. I don't really like that. I could go deeper with my comment. The video really makes a lot of room for a dabate. I still want to thank Concerned Ape that he made the ginger island the way he did. It's hard to create something and I believe he did his best as always. Noone is absolutely flawless and nothing would be ever created if people keep thinking about it too deeply.
Honestly this is a nuanced, grounded and absolutely true take about Leo. There was something bugging me about his whole arc and I couldn’t quite find the words for it - but you said it perfectly
that’s a very deep interpretation, and it makes a lot of sense. i always assumed that concernedape left the ruined structures there just as placeholders to prevent you from putting other things in the way of future structures but it does add a lot of questions and lore to the game but i guess maybe it was just the parrots that built it? they’re kind of acting as the native population, and it’s clear they’re capable of building complex structures i don’t know why they abandoned their structures and let them fall into disarray, maybe there’s some lore behind that and you’re right about the people trying to tame leo mayor lewis (though briefly mentioned) definitely is trying to fit him into a mold instead of trying to learn more about him. it seems he does this to every newcomer, as i remember him saying nearly the exact line to the farmer in the farmer’s early days in the valley. he seems to be wary of new people, and tries to make them fit his ideal. penny isn’t too guilty imo, she more just wants him to have the same educational opportunities as vincent and jas i think his friendship with linus is very beneficial to him, because linus understands better than anyone how important it is to keep your connection to nature and your roots in general he encourages leo to retain his sense of self while still learning new things one detail i noticed and really enjoy is how upon moving to the valley, leo doesn’t change his hair or outfit. he keeps the same appearance despite now having access to “civilized” clothes, and i think maybe he chose to do so. or maybe linus helped him with the decision, but either way i think it was a good move because it allowed him to keep a lot of his individuality. in my mind, even though on the fore-front leo is supposed to represent the orphaned child trope, he could also be a metaphor for indigenous people and their relationship to a more “developed” society. concernedape shows how some people try to change him or “fix” him, and only a small number encourage him and his culture and only try to get him to meet new people and not be alone anymore. leo’s background before the shipwreck is ambiguous, so his culture really is that of the parrots native to the island. and speaking of the whole “orphan raised by animals,” i think concernedape’s decision to not change leo’s appearance upon his arrival to the valley helps kinda break away from some of the racial bias hidden in the trope. for example, in one of the tarzan sequels(?) jane gets tarzan to wear his father’s suit and dress him up more like what she’s used to (in context i don’t think this was malicious though, but it still stands to say she was definitely imposing many european traditions on him throughout that film). this and many others fall into the idea of “civilizing the wild man.” concernedape strays from this by keeping leo as unchanged as possible as he moves away from the island. it was a wise choice in my opinion, intentional or not. but i do agree that more diversity being a potential of the island would have been welcome, but in doing so it would have had to have been very carefully handled so as not to add a whole white/civilized savior complex to the game, because that just wouldn’t fit the game. anthropomorphic animals much better fit the pre-existing vibe of the game, because the game is meant to have that kind of magical theme. but still, it’s interesting to think about all the directions that the island could have gone and what it calls to mind.
It would be nice to be able to somehow purchase a deed to what seems to be a second farm that ginger island provides. If nobody else I imagine Mr. Qi is the type to just casually own a large plot of land on an island somewhere. He is rich, mysterious, and shady after all.
I don't have anything deep to say really, just that as a subscriber, a player of SDV, and a person living in the Philippines, it makes me happy that you relate the game to our history. That seldom happens and I actually at first didn't see it like that, but thank you. It makes us seen.
5:40 ....920 walnuts?! Leo and the parrots going to be impressed. Well, I'm just feeling that Willy get left out. He cares about Leo, he doesn't have family. I just little bit hope that he will be with Willy and them both will have family again. But now he's with Linus and Penny. Their relationship is more like teacher and student. It kinda makes me sad.
I can see the concerns that are being presented here. I would like to share my own take, however. I always thought that the farm house was hinted to belong to the person that wrote the journals. Maybe it wasn't always a farm? I thought the island had more of a Gilligan's island vibe to it. In the made for TV movie at the end of the series, they all get off the island, but realize that it was peaceful there and they missed each other and went back. I always saw the farmer as the Gilligan character, for lack of a better term. They are there to help and connect people. Thats just my two cents! Im not saying its good or bad.
I don't think we as the player are trying to civilize Leo at least that's never how I thought of him or thought of my interactions with him. Honestly to me his story comes across more so like someone who is with a group that while he enjoys being with and gets along with he nevers fully fits in and you as the player come around and he someone who walks like him and talks like him and someone he can maybe fully relate too and once you prove that you are willing to work within the confines of the society he grew up in and you respect that society he feels safe enough to interact with you to see if he can relate to you and he makes the choice to leave all on his own for the most part only asking you for more information on the mainland and your opinion to help himself make that choice. He is someone that was thrust into a community that he never really fit into fully and while you may have enjoyed his time there it was never 100% him and then he finds other people from other communities to make a home for himself that works for him with people he likes being around and with people he can fully emotionally relate to
as a native, i’m glad that ca didn’t put a native civilization. not only is the topic of colonization a very very heavy one that needs the utmost respect, it can also very easily fall into stereotypes and while assumedly inadvertently, just flat out racism. while those topics are important to discuss, i prefer it be from people who are highly educated and have personal experience, and not from a cute farming sim
No population isn’t a rare thing for small islands like ginger island, and considering that the island used to be a holiday tourist thing, it’s likely if there WAS people there, they were already...you know. Also from a story point of view, while stardew does deal with deep issues like addiction and such, it is much more of a “with your choices you can help others” type of angel with these issues. Having inhabitants that are native and against what you are doing would be a hard obstacle, because this island would have literally no use gameplay wise if there were inhabitants who you had to displace, because doing that is...bad. Very bad. And that isn’t the game Stardew Valley is, where you do horrible acts against humanity (turning kids into doves does not count because like...who tf ACTUALLY has done that irl) so this certainly isn’t a issue that there aren’t natives on the island, it would serve no narrative use.
Honestly an easy fix for the farmland would be an executor for you're grandpa's will/estate sending you a letter informing that there had always been another deed and it was meant to be given to the player when it was deemed they could handle it. As for Leo, I agree, let us just straight up adopt the boy and maybe make it more clear he was articulate and such from the beginning as others have pointed out. Hell, even just giving him days where you find him on the island, like 50/50 time in the valley and on the island would help a lot. Do wish we had gotten to see more inhabitants on the island, but I kind of always got the feeling it was meant to be one of those places where the original population disappeared at some point (which if CA went with that kind of idea fully he could put in lots of hints about what happened and where they went, maybe even that they moved to the valley leaving the island abandoned)
I like the idea of Grandpa having ownership of part of the island, but does that just kick the issue back a generation if the rest of the island stays as is? How did he get it? Did he plant a flag? Was it passed down in the family? 🤔 It definitely solves the feeling of "eminent domain" ing the island though, and that's a big win!
@@Leapalot that is a good question and one that would have to be expanded on. There's a lot of ways it could have worked, like maybe an ancestor was an original inhabitant and it's been passed down? It's a tricky situation all around. It does seem like Grandpa was pretty established, and if we combine it with my other idea of all the inhabitants leaving to the valley then it works out I think.
CA is also working on the Haunted Chocolatier and the game is 6 years old, so I can see not adding a whole other civilization to the new island. It would've been cool to gain the respect of the people and see how things went for us. Though I also see CA not doing it so it's still that fun relaxing game, they didn't spend more time on the game and not having to make even more back stories and in depth characters.
I always thought the parrots are the natives of Ginger Island, and they eventually just let the structures fall apart because they don’t need them. I also genuinely thought that Leo was part bird. (I haven’t unlocked the island myself, so this is all just my impression from other people’s videos, etc)
I think you're allowing your own station in life (a white guy) bias your interpretation. My farmer and I arent white so your take kinda falls apart and its not like colonialism is something done exclusively by white people. Besides, no one imposed anything on Leo. Hes a lonely kid who gets tired of talking to birds.
I agree with you but by a completely different reason. For starters what Leop is doing here, is not telling you that "the farmer is a colonialist imposing his/her agenda over this child because he/she believe that his/her ways are the ones" What Leop is actually doing here is telling us that "mmm maybe Concerned Ape is doing this because he have internalized these colonialism ideas". Thing is that not only white tribes or civilizations have colonialized other cultures in fact this "white colonialism" is a pretty modern concept when it past it was just "conquering and assimilation" since from almost every great civilization's perspective others weaker were inferior even as humans (And so slavery was justify from so long). So yeah, if we assume that what the players do with Leo is imposing his ideas of civilization over a weaker tribe like colonialism, then his/her ethnicity is not an excuse
@@mado-wh4jv But... Leo doesn't have a culture ?? There's no tribe with a rich history, there's no beliefs that colonialism would need to change. It's just a single kid trapped on the island after his parent's accidental death. I see nothing wrong in helping him socialize with his peers.
@@mado-wh4jv Yeah completely agreed. Not only is this clearly not colonialism, but colonialism isn't an exclusively white people thing. The Chinese were originally from what is currently a part of Northern China. They ended up colonizing almost all of Southeast Asia. Same with the Japanese displacing the Ainu and the Mongolians displacing the peoples of Central Asia. Arabs are originally from Saudi Arabia but colonized nearly the entire Middle East and North Africa.
@@michaela2634 And here in South America, the Incas were enslaving and killing all smaller tribes for imperialists and religious reasons, actually, some historians say that the reason why the colons were so welcomed was because the natives believed that they came to set them free from the abuses of Inca's empire.
It's possible! As much as I try to take a step back, I'll always be who I am. But regardless of the farmer's skin color, Leo's story teaches us that assimilation to the dominant culture is the key to happiness. Is that a good thing? Maybe for Leo specifically. But I don't think it's a good sentiment.
CA(concerenedApe) I'm gonna make an new island to let the end game farmers explore Leapalot but why *talks about philosophy and history* me stop trying to explain logicz, it fun
So what you’re saying is that if I find a little kid roaming the woods with their only adult supervision being literal feral animals, I should just let nature take its course? I get what you’re going for here, but Leo’s kind of an inappropriate target. It would be one thing if he was a happy kid raised by actual humans who just have a different way of life from from the people of stardew, but that’s far from the case here.
Nah, Leo will do better in town. He was a kid with a fairly standard upbringing. What I'm suggesting is that we should be thoughtful about the stories we tell each other and ourselves, and recognize where they come from and what motivated them. That's all! Thanks for checking it out!
I’m glad other people wanted to adopt Leo too. When I found out you couldn’t and he just lives in a tree, I was really upset but I’ve grown to be okay with it and bring him his favorite food from time to time despite being at 10 hearts with him. I think the first time I saw Leo, I told my mom about the character and bravely said “I am going to become the bestest friends with this child”
This has to be one of the worst takes you've ever had. Instead of trying to find some hidden innate Tumblr theory about the white mans burden, let's look at the story at face value. It's a kid who has lost everything being reunited with his species. Sure, Leo may love the parrots but in the end they're animals. It's very unlikely that he can connect to them in the same way he could a human. Additionally, Leo differs in real life examples of wild children because he was separated later in life, old enough and recent enough for him to still have decent language skills. Like jeez dude
I mean, ginger island isn’t that far away. There is another comment that explains this in much greater detail. However, I understand the societal stuff. I do think that this is one of the more out there theories. On a side note, what is the weird Linus portrait in the 6 heart cutscene. Is it in the water or something?
I can agree with some points. I think it would've been more enriching to have the Farmer meet the native population of the land, earn their trust by completing tasks or learning about Ginger Island and then be given a plot of land as a kind of job well done.
Gotoro Empire, such potential. Feels like a failed colony of theirs (or a counter resistance/pirate hub), maybe they were* also poisoned by the radioactive ore/irridium?
a huge problem i have with ginger island is that CA didn't use it as an oppurtunity to fix SDV's diversity issue. leo is white, birdie is white, professor snail is white, so what is the point of ginger island being reminiscent of polynesia? maru and demitrius remain as our only major POC characters, why? i can't even think of any way to fix ginger island to remove the imperialist undertones. it really is just white aestheticized fanatasy of polynesia, without having to grapple with the racist connotation of bringing industrial agriculture to land that isn't yours.
i don't really agree with this video but i do really respect that you made a video about a topic that can be very uncomfortable. this topic is very important to discuss but i don't think that it's very relevant to sdv. it also made me a bit uncomfortable when you said that leo wasn't eloquent when you first meet him, because that's just not true. anyway, no hate to you! our opinions are different and that's okay.
Bad take tbh. You have a problem with squatters and impose this on the farmer, fine. Then you go off on this silly cultural appropriation tangent which completely loses the thread of there being anything at all wrong with Leo, until you say that you think Leo choosing to go to school and talk to people like he repeatedly tells you he wants to do... is bad because this is somehow the uh, town... making Leo... uh... be Leo? Don't read controversy into situations where there is none please.
5:36 The parrots aren't magic birds, they're just typical birds(well their capacity to build is a bit odd given the lack of thumbs, that may be magical. Psychological there's nothing odd though). Parrots are very intelligent creatures and them being portrayed as a people of their own in the game isn't "anthropomorphizing" them. To suggest that is to de-personify parrots. Humans tend to think that they're so much smarter and civilized than other species, when the reality of the situation is that we just got lucky and evolved thumbs first.
Ну и бред, он умеет разговаривать и вроде даже помнит своих родителей, он выживал на острове только благодаря попугаям... он не абориген которого колонизируют, а ребенок который попал в беду и страдает от одиночества
Абсолютно согласен, от видео просто фейспалмы набивал. По задумке автора его надо было оставить дальше жить на острове в дикой природе, где он скорее всего умер бы в раннем возрасте, будучи неопытным ребёнком? Попугаи ему бы раны залатать не помогли я думаю, они не медики... Стардью сама по себе расслабляющая игра и когда сюда пытаются всунуть такие спорные политические темы это просто не вписывается =( ...
I think this is more of a kid lives trope(tarzan) than a savior one, and i feel like shoving an allegory for the settlers into the game would've been weird. I dont think it takes away from the game that it wasn't addressed. Especially sense those subject matters can be very personal to some people and making you,the player, invade people's land could upset people. Over all it was a better idea to not address the concept at all sense its asking for controversy in my opinion. Liked the video tho
The Farmer is a true capitalist through and through. Rather than colonize the farm on the island, we buy it from the native birds using their own currency. That is unfathomably *based.*
As a black person, thank you so much for making this video! I find it strange how people are open to Stardew Valley including storylines involving homophobia and sexism but draw the line at any mention of cultural or racial bias.
While I disagree that Leo fits the archetype of civilizing an “animal human,” I do think it’s important to consider the possibility of how frequently this element is glorified in the media. Western culture being propped up as the pinnacle of success, and all other will only “benefit” by being assimilated. As other people have said before me, I don’t think Leo qualifies because he talks to the farmer about wanting to be around people again, and all of the humans give him the space to decide what he wants to do, rather than coax him “to a better life.” I think him being able to live mostly like Linus is a show that be can choose whatever lifestyle and activities make him the happiest. He even goes back to Ginger Island on Mondays for the whole day, so he still gets to spend time with his parrot family. He’s not being civilized so much as being welcomed by the inhabitants of SDV to live in whatever ways suit him the best.
Your video is thought-provoking, and the lack of diversity is one of my complaints about this game as a whole. It's small, but things like your children automatically being white and only a couple characters being of color. Ultimately, I do think the creator had an opportunity to create an interesting and diverse community for Ginger Island, and it would have been much cooler if they took it. Whether people see it or not, the creator did choose to make hyper-intelligent birds that Leo can understand instead of true Islanders, and a storyline that can be perceived as a White Savior story arc. Leo was never alone. The birds do talk to you and Leo, even giving hints about where to find Golden Walnuts, and they build structures on the island too. The parrots could have been people, and Leo didn't need to be saved. The idea he needs to be saved is based is ethnocentrism. The story could have been more wholesome if he lived on the Island with Native Islanders who accepted him and raised him as their own upon the shipwreck, and after getting to know the farmer, he visits the Valley every now and again and makes some friends.
BRO WAIT IM EARLY FIRST TIME YAY !!!!!! 6:45 kinda unrelated but i rmbr learning that some of my classmates had to memorize that poem for their classes 😭 i found that weird as a filipino but ok
even though leo’s story is really controversial and a little uncomfortable, i think one bad thing doesn’t ruin the game. ca did such a good job with ginger island and leo shouldn’t ruin it
I feel it’s a case of wanting something from a game that isn’t here to discuss it. Yes, not having a civilization is an “easy way out” but were you really expecting to find that in Stardew Valley? If you’re looking for that story, I’d recommend Horizon Zero Dawn, especially Forbidden West. It helps digest these topics with examples of this behavior without flooding it with things you might already hold opinions about.
I think you are going on a wild ride with this one here. Bringing up the White Mans Burden because an Island in the middle of the ocean has an abandoned hut on it, which could have been build by literally anyone like pirates from long ago for example, is nonsense. And Tarzan being a White "savage" makes complete sense. He is the son of a British lord in the book. So there is nothing wrong with him being White, and frankly if he was Black "savage" making monkey noises that would be actually racist, no?
That beginning... that weirded me out as I played as a female farmer my first run and befriended Linus (I have a soft spot for the outcasts), and that 4-heart (?) scene made me go "omg did he just..." and then he said LOOK it's my homemade bait! And I breathed a sigh of relief and started laughing.
More than arguing that Leo belongs in the wild, I would like for people to think about where the stories that permeate our identities come from.
If I remade this video, I would put a heavier focus on why we keep telling this story, where it comes from, and what that says about us.
I forgot that the Kipling who wrote The White Man's Burden to encourage the US to "civilize" my people was the same Kipling who wrote The Jungle Book and I had to pause for a good 10 minutes to contain my rage lmao. Definitely seeing the Mowgli trope in a different light.
Your comment here reminds me of Folding Idea's "I Accidentally Did a Colonialism in Minecraft." Even when it's totally unintentional on a dev's part, it's good to think about these tropes and discuss their continued presentation in the media we consume.
I literally had no idea!!! It’s honestly nauseating to think about… I’m very lucky that the jungle book wasn’t really part of my childhood, I know it was for some people
I'm a poc but honestly, it made sense to me that there were mostly white people there - the island is not too far south of Stardew Valley. We are *not* going on a trip around the world. We're going to an island that is, at most, a couple hundred miles away. You can travel there, spend a good chunk of time there, and then get home fairly quickly _in the same day._ For comparison, the fastest a ship can get to Hawaii from California is between 4 and 5 days. This is more akin to taking a ferry from Dover, UK, to Calais, France, which takes about an hour and a half. People don't often realize just how much of a difference a hundred or so miles can make in the way the environment works. It's the difference between having to rely on beer for your alcohol in the UK for hundreds of years because it wasn't temperate enough to grow grapes for wine like down in France. _Seriously._
Consider this: Willy already knew about this island. He took us straight there. He sailed us straight to a dock that had _already been there._
Looking at the southern Ginger Island area, looks like the posts for a couple of buildings were supposed to be there. It's likely it was going to be a resort before falling into disrepair, probably due to the war with the Gotoro Empire. Leo was a fairly young kid when he ended up there - he likely was originally headed to the island with his parents with the intention to develop it into a resort - possibly at Mr. Qi's behest - and no one realized what happened to him and his family due to the ongoing war. Clearly we didn't usurp the island of a lost indigenous human population. Pirates had been making use of it, due to it being largely abandoned, but other than Birdie who decided to retire there à la Linus, no one was intentionally living there. Perhaps Ginger Island is not really large enough to support a self-sustainable indigenous population of humans. Birds? Sure. Frogs? Sure. Deadly monsters plus one dwarf in a lava-filled volcano? Sure. But humans? No idea - I'm not sure how much fresh water is readily available or accessible.
As for clunky speech, whether by Leo or, say, the Gourmand Frog, eloquence is not a sign of intelligence. To quote a favorite line of mine from the Keanu Reeves movie, A Walk in the Clouds: "Don't think that just because I speak with an accent, I think with an accent." ua-cam.com/video/sMfI5e4VVkE/v-deo.html
Honestly, if you rarely use a language yet are still able to communicate with it, that's pretty darned impressive.
Yep
Hamburge
Thank you! I had some similar thoughts, though you said it better than I could've
The only thing I disagree with is that Leo wasn’t as eloquent and gets more eloquent as you go on. Leo was always eloquent. We can see that with the 2 heart event when he begins with “I know I’m not really a bird, [players name]”. His dialog here is perfect and he pretty much reveals that he uses all of this as a defense mechanism because he doesn’t have human friends and it makes him feel less lonely. At least that’s what I took from it. Just pointing it out :)
Fair! He obviously spoke the player's language in the past. He's just a little rusty.
Little kids left alone will become very unused to speaking. If he learned to speak before being abandoned, however, he’ll pick it up again once he finds people
Race, and colonialism aside, Leo is a child who lives alone on an island with birds. It's not about imposing anyone's culture or values it's about making sure that the literal child is safe and taken care of.
THIS. so many people miss the point entirely about leo's character arc
But he was fine on his own was he not? And for a hot minute too, when he almost forgot how to speak a language. That's also just us underestimating kids like we always used to do. (Kids, Women (not so much anymore, but sadly still quite alot), Immigrants (in modern days) and, well Animals are the 4 groups people tend to take away agency from and assume they need x to be taken care of...which again is very much us imposing our culture/belief onto them, there is no way around that. The Kid was fine! However!! Big However! As Leapalot also pointed out, Leo wanted this. He decided to go to the Valley. And as a Kid his age, he still learns through mimicking the world around him (which is why he started talking "bird" in the first place) which leads to his change.
Like literally every comment disagreeing and saying something like this, is basically portraying what Leapalot is talking about in the video haha.
That's fair for the literal reading of the text but we should indeed keep in mind the tropes and concepts that may or may not have influenced his story arc as well as readings of the text that are themselves influenced by these tropes.
@@JinsanSama But Leo wasn't really fine, yes he had food water and shelter but he was lonely, extremely so. For humans which are highly social animals that is a big problem.
@@JinsanSama but he isn't fine his needs are not being met intellectually and socially. He desires human connection which he doesn't have. Children need loving parents. It fucks a kid up when they don't have that. He straight up has no one to support him emotionally. No friends to play with.
i don't mind leo in general
but like
why... WHY can't i adopt him? and i have to let him live with linus who AT THE START OF THE GAME complains that people THROW ROCKS at his tent? that's my biggest deal with leo at least
Linus is just putting together a dodgeball team and needs fresh blood. If you can dodge a rock...
@@Leapalot If you can dodge a rock you can outrun a bear. No?
@@Leapalot love the dodgeball reference there, dude.
I know right? Despite my conflicted feelings about ginger island as a whole, the entire story makes me want to marry Willy and adopt Leo (pelican town department of children and family services is yet another place where Mayor Lewis is not doing his job.)
Edit: I mean seriously, only needs 3 more heart scenes and some marriage dialogue, and I could see Willy being a great Easter egg Bachelor if he was only available if you took the riverland or beach farm, which both have major drawbacks for people who are mostly interested in profit.
@@CandiceLemonSharks i think it would be so cute
Also be because despite me being only 20 i find Abigail, Sam and a couple of others way too... Like they don't act like adults who can marry?
THAT'S MY OPINION i like em as characters
But i think willy would make a lovely elder love
(Also i want to marry Caroline and steal her from Pierre so baaaaaad)
Well, I disagree. I think the sole reason that they wanted him to go to the town is because he's a CHILD alone in the jungle. And he misses having human interactions.
Totally fair! I think Leo, specifically, will be better off in the town as well. But the recurring themes of saving people who are different by civilizing them are unconscious to a lot of people, and worth examining.
@@Leapalot Yes I understand, I just don't think it was the case here. Leo isn't a native from some jungle civilisation, he's a white young boy who ended up in this island because of an accident. I think it would be concerning if he was from a tribe and they wanted him to go to their city to offer him a "better life", but that's not what happened. He's just a lost child who misses other humans. And they don't force him to follow them and they don't say "don't ever come back to this island".
@@luckyduchesse8924 He does come back to the island and there are mods that modify his dialogue and schedule too.
@@luckyduchesse8924 I think that somewhat misses the point by just reading the literal text, which, while that is a fair reading, doesn't mean the other readings are incorrect either.
I never once thought I was forcing this kid to "conform to societal norms"
He's already been used to society, the kid can speak English fluently, and the reason we're taking him back to the valley is because, ignoring the fact that he misses people and wants to hang out with other kids, he's a kid. A literal child living alone on an island lmao
The same island that has a volcano filled with flying pockets of Magma
I mean those parrots practically owns the island.
If they can group up and construct a house faster than Robin, they can easily swarm some unwanted guests and leaving only pile of bones behind.
So I think they simply "let" you use the island because you're a nice walnut guy, any destructive behaviors? Your funeral.
I still wish that they'd swarm the turtles and leave just a pile of bones behind, it'd be so fucked up, but funny as hell
"your funeral"💀💀💀💀
@@blokvader8283 PLS-😭😭😭😭😭
Building a house faster than robin isn't really a flex...
@@lilythearcticfox She is capable of constructing a fairly large barn/shed in 3~4 days, all by herself.
I'd say that's pretty impressive.
It’s a small uninhabited island with very few people on it. The main cast of SDV is like 30 something characters; why add a whole civilisation for something that’s not even the focus of the game?
About Leo: This is not taking a native child from his home. Leo was raised by his parents lol, he is human and doesn’t deserve to live essentially alone on this island. Isn’t he aged 6-8? Leo even says he misses society and knows that he’s pretending to be a bird as a defence. There’s nothing wrong with taking him to the valley; if there was a civilisation he was culturally close to than yeah ig. But he’s a elementary school kid living alone on an island.
I just think this video didn’t really address the game, rather people’s speculations. IF there was a society on Ginger Island then Leo would be more controversial. But there isn’t? It’s basically a massive late game side quest, and it doesn’t need to have more than 6+ characters. I understand wanting representation, but wouldn’t it be better to have a variety of POC in the valley and not over complicate the island? Idrk, just didn’t enjoy this video as much as I thought I would.
Thanks for the comment. I think Leo moving to the valley is best for his development. He'll be better off with other humans for one, but also you're right that he was already coming from a fairly natural background.
It's the archetype that bothers me. The casual way that we continue to build on really troublesome narratives because they're just floating around in the back of our head. Leo (to me) is just a reminder that we internalize those stories and don't see the problem with them.
Interesting analysis though I don’t know how much I entirely agree with it. While Leo’s story mirrors those narratives in a messy way, I can understand that concerned ape was trying to lean into an orphaned child trope rather than any sort of white savior ones, and it is handled with a bit more nuance there. Beyond that, I honestly think that the island having an broader indigenous population to interact with aside from magical animals that don’t equivalently reference people would have been a bad idea. Everything you said about settling into the abandoned farm house, expanding your presence on the island, and even the game’s main mechanic of transforming land into a profitable, agricultural space would have been significantly more uncomfortable if placed into an explicitly colonial narrative. Given that perspective, and that the way Leo is handled can already be potentially read as altering someone’s culture, imagine how much worse that could have been? Imagine if Leo had a family of people and not just parrots, the underlying discomfort you had from this video’s reading would have been so much worse.
The nuance required to make that narrative of a rich foreign farmer moving in and taking over land for profit not seem disturbingly colonialist would be incredibly challenging in that context. I don’t think Stardew’s basic systems of occasional cutscenes and limited character dialogue can handle that level of nuance. I don’t think it would have been comfortable for the players, even if their characters relationship with a larger native population improved over time in a meaningful way. Even the idea of having the farmer move in and make friends with the indigenous people while still utilizing their lands for resources could easily be a slippery slope. So, while I understand the desire for fascinating cultural diversity in the world of Stardew Valley, I have to agree with concerned ape’s choice not to implement it here. There is no way in my mind that this game’s mechanics of money making, agriculture, and expansion would be capable of telling a narrative that would not be at least somewhat colonialist if the island was a populous and complex place that we asserted ourselves into.
I don’t blame Concerned Ape in the slightest for sticking to magical creatures and transient groups. Yes, it avoids colonialist discussions, but frankly, given the structure of the game’s design and storytelling, that narrative couldn’t be adequately displayed here.
This isn’t calling the video bad or anything, I love your style and it’s important we engage with the themes of what we enjoy, I just don’t agree on expanding the population of ginger island from a mostly abandoned spot being a good idea. I do think including diversity in games is important, but the care with which it is implemented is doubly so.
Well said!
Totally fair! I don't think every game needs to address every social issue. It would have been an enormous amount of work to implement that, and even with the utmost care, there would certainly have been issues.
Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate the insight!
@@Leapalot Thanks! I love your videos and look forward to the next one!
Ah, this is a very well written reply. Thank you for taking the time to write this out.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the "the game is just avoiding colonialist narratives"
Yeah, no duh, it's a laid back farming simulator lmao
Yes it delves into dark topics like broken families and addictions, but a massive statement about racism would be definitely a step too far. The magical creatures and goofy characters fit the style of the game much more
A, friendship with Leo. Definitely my top priority when the island is unlocked. Absolutely.
Despite my complaints, he's a good noodle.
I kindly disagree. I don't feel that giving a stranded child who lost their parents a chance to learn and make friends and basically reconnect with where they originally belonged is imposing our values on them.
Lio has just as much freedom as he did before, nor is Linus or Willy treating him like a lesser human being that needs the "whiteman's saving". I think trying to compare his situation to actual people of different ethnicity and culture being taken against their will by white man is at best, far fetched.
Stay safe out there, and hope you have a good weekend.
100%.
True
I think it is a far leap to say that adopting an orphaned child found living by themself is wrong. Leo isn't from a different culture he's from the same culture the player was. Just got cut off from it by unfortunate circumstances.
I've heard people say they've wanted to adopt Leo. Honestly, if I gained a lot of friendship with him, I'd probably me more like a fun aunt then anything else
To be honest I don't want to adopt him either, I just want my kids to grow past toddler stage xD
Just cookies! No responsibilities!
I would have loved to have been able to adopt him/become family. It would have been nice for him to have ties to and be with his own kind, maybe a second home between being with the parrots and a human family.
Not sure why making a home there would be "uncomfortable". You quite literally buy the place from the parrots
Not a fan of this analysis. Leo is a child. He is a minor that has been abandoned. It has nothing to do with trying to change him or be better, but he is still a minor that needs protection and education isn’t bad.
Yes... This video is so weird... What culture is he talking about, it's a child without parents on the island🤨
You make good points, but they are misdirected here. The update COULD have done a lot of things, but it didn't. And it's not a subconscious representation of colonialism. Just some fun pirates on an island who didn't care enough to maintain their farm.
(Also protecting and educating a child who lost his parents isn't indoctrination)
Love you, Leap! ❤️
I don't know, the absence of a native civilization in the island sounds more like a game development decision to save time, Pelican Town and its NPCs have been there almost since day one and have been developing characters update after update. Adding a new NPC as well written now is not that easy, but adding a whole new native society? I think we are asking too much, to this point it would be not an expansion but instead a whole different game, and honestly I think that Concerned Ape is done with Stardew Valley
Yeah, I think it was a development decision as well, but the optics are still really are not great.
Definitely would make sense to draw the line somewhere. You can't pour your entire existence into a game when you want to move on to other projects. From a technical standpoint, limited NPCs make sense.
yeah, I already hate that I need everybody in Town to love me to achieve perfection and I would hate even more to have 30 more people to love me, so, that probably was a game design choice
to people saying "we shouldn't look so deep" and "stop explaining logic, the game is just for fun" --
you are missing the point.
games and media reflect our views as a culture, whether they're bad or good. leap isn't calling CA or SDV bad for any reflections here, just examining the ugly history that makes them. we have to examine these things and learn as to not repeat them, & to get better as a whole. it's especially crucial if you're white and unaware of colonialism & racism on any level other than "it's bad" and "it doesn't exist today" -- bc they still do, and ignoring that isn't helpful to the communities that these things still actively harm. these are things that you have to actively be aware of and fight.
that said.. thanks for this, leap. keep it up.
Pretty much! I think CA is a fantastic human being. He made a wholesome as heck game, and he's never been anything but kind and supportive of every person who talks to him. I think Stardew Valley is an amazing game! It's an enormous part of my life.
But we just play these stories in our heads without thought sometimes, and they're worth talking about!
I 100% agree. While it’s good to have media where we can relax our brain and not think of this stuff, it’s also good to be critical of the media we surround ourselves with. Nowadays a lot of our knowledge on the outside world is from the media so media influences our brains more than ever.
Of course CA did nothing wrong. Leap is just looking into the cultural origins of stories like the “wild child”. It’s similar to cowboy culture where the actual historical facts are different than the stories we see now. Of course it’s not bad to like these stories. They’re heavily romanticized. CA thought the idea would be fun for us to play with and I agree, it’s fun.
Agreed. Sure, it's "just fiction", but fiction allows us to explore concepts that we haven't encountered in our own lives. And fiction can absolutely impact our biases in ways we don't recognize until we examine it.
agreed 100%!!
"Its especially crucial if you're white" I'll take race baiting for 500
Something really bothered me about what you said. That we just come in and own the land. No we don't. We have to pay for it. We scavange, we work, we solve rediculous simon says puzzles, all for this island's currency. Wallnuts. The birds who own the land now ask for a price, you pay it. Also Leo living in a tree house and going into another tree house isn't exactly leaving the wild. He's finding his roots, which is something a lot of displaced children do regardless of the circumstance. Also Leo isn't doing any better or worse than the other birds according to their culture. (Which is dictated by walnuts.) He's doing well, but not better. All he gets from moving to Stardew is socilization with humans and an education. His cloths don't change, his likes don't change, his living arrangements are practically the same. The only difference is he now has a human gardian in Linus. One of his bird family even stays with him. Now keep in mind I'm not trying to harp on you or say your wrong with your questioning of stories similar to this, but I feel you kinda missed the pourpose of Leo's story by focusing on colonialism. Which is still a problem but a separate issue from the one presented in the story.
I'm not really sure on this one. Wild animals have raised children in the past. Which hasn't gone well for the kids to be honest. It usually ends in the child getting detrimentally ill, and passing on. It's an abandoned child who needs help. Which isn't really a culture. It's a tragedy.
Well I haven't finished the part with the island and I have only one heart with him, but everytime I see him, he seems sad and don't want to talk, also being alone (with no other human I mean) isn't great for anyone. I think it would have been as bad as you said if it was a family or an adult, but if I see a little boy living on the wood, I'm going to bring him back to a home were he can eat and get medication, even if he was happy among deer and birds. (my english is probably bad sorry x) )
It's not bad that we want Leo to be safe and happy and healthy!
The "Mowgli" trope seems completely wrong here. Leo is a frequently sad little boy who tries to forget that he once had human parents who were lost at sea, and who although he loves his bird family knows he is not a bird and feels very definitely that he doesn't really belong in their society. He says this emphatically more than once, even though he does contradict this idea occasionally. He shows great interest in the idea of there being other kids where the farmer lives. He is lonely, purposeless, and has "sad" days. There is no indication whatever that he is running the island or is superior to the animals there, rather the opposite. The parrots who do run the island are taking care of him, and he is in the role of their child (or pet) rather than their master. They are happy for him when he finds other humans who can return him to the society of his own kind. Once he goes to Stardew Valley, with the help and the blessing of his bird family, he is clearly much happier. Other than the Stardew adults educating him in their own particular skills, nobody is trying to change him or shows any criticism of him as "uncivilized." (And considering how much of his human language and life he unrealistically remembers, he isn't particularly "uncivilized," just inexperienced.) Whether any of this should be seen as good or bad, it is what the game tells us in Leo's own words and actions. We should really go to the game itself to find out what it is saying, rather than imposing external cliches and 19th-century expectations on it.
By the way, the abandoned farm is very possibly the creation of the stranded sailor who wrote the journal pages we pick up from time to time. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense (and why doesn't Birdie live there?), but I guess he grew lots of garlic, pink melons, and wheat, within the lifespan of an elderly frog... That doesn't explain the abandoned resort of course. But the impression I have is that there was never a human community on the island, just transients. And dwarves, who are likely responsible for creating the forge, if any humanoid is.
birdie doesn't live there beacause the stranded man was very likely her husband, hence the shipwreck right below the farm and birdie saying that she is there guarding her husband's remains
I am slightly disappointed, good video though. Leo came from civilization and even mentions that he isn't as far behind as expected when he starts school because he remembers some of the things he learned before his parents passed.
It is a more tragic story that he was old enough to understand and learn school age things and lost his parents and was alone to cope.
Totally fair. I think Leo in particular will do very well in the valley. It's the accumulated use of this archetype that worries me. But you're definitely correct that he came from a fairly typical background.
@@Leapalot that is true and is telling of our past behavior but I think as a whole we are realizing that we shouldn't force our ways on others as a whole. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it
I think the comparisons the community has made of Leo's arc to colonialism is really reaching. Leo is an *orphaned child* stranded on the island alone with no one else to talk to other than the birds, and he makes the decision himself later in-game to move to Pelican Town because he wanted human interaction. Colonialism doesn't allow the freedom of choice.
That video got much more serious than I thought it would. I agree with the most of what was said, but I wonder if the Leo part is true - I never heard anyone talk about Leo as a wild one who needs to be tamed and civilized, he is an orphan child stranded on the island...
Fair enough. He's just kind of a bystander here. It really just brought me back to those archetypes of little dude lost at sea, rising up to be the champion and commanding the animals.
@@Leapalot Yeah, after this video I totally see that uncomfortable parralel. I never been a fan of a works using this archetypes, so my mind just never went there. For me Leo's story was very straightforward - here is a child who has been surviving alone for who knows how long, player needs to adopt him immediately (or less preferably in terms of gameplay find his living relatives)
"Leo's entire story rotates around how you need to at least play along with civilized society to be happy" No it doesn't? He had no major issues and seems pretty happy living on the island without any humans around at all. After he leaves he directly says, as you show while saying this, that he feels happy about his memories on the island. He's curious about you and where you're from and comes to hang out in the valley. He's not escaping an awful unhappy life of uncivilized despair
Your perspective makes sense, and I respect it. One counter-point I would bring up though is that Leo remembers and misses his parents, and he likely lived his early years in a civilization similar to the valley (or maybe Zuzu city). He also tells the farmer that he knows he isn’t a bird and feels like he doesn’t belong anywhere. When Leo comes to the valley, he is reunited with the life he lost when his parents died, but he discovers that he can still maintain his place on the island. Rather than trying to change Leo’s culture, it seems to me that Leo is given the chance to regain his old human culture while still maintaining his place in the parrot’s culture.
On the other hand, I agree that I would have loved to see CA’s take on an island civilization.
Though this did feel me with dread, I am so glad you mention it. I had a lot of preconceptions that I didn't even realize I had. Honestly, thank you a lot for making this video that really looks at everything with a lens I didn't even realize was needed.
That's for watching. There were some uncomfortable concepts, but yeah. I think they were worth talking about.
I have to say I can see where you're coming from, but your perspective is very americacentric. You are looking for ties between US cultural issues and a fictional world in a farming sim game, which I do not think works out very well. Stardew Valley does present certain crtique of corporationism and presents some argument for humanity's return to nature and slower, kinder way of life. It does not however touch upon American cultural issues with race.
As I said, I can understand why your thoughts went there, but I do think you read too much into a chill farming sim.
Plus, in your analysis of Leo, you kept again a very American point of view, which makes little sense to any viewer who doesn't share your cultural identity.
I feel like if the game played around with the ideas of colonization there would've been an intense and immediate backlash, even if it was to teach about it or show the results from it.
You're not wrong! It's a touchy subject, and there's not an easy answer. I'm not saying CA should have done things a specific way, I just think we should take some time and recognize where some of these archetypes really come from.
Leo is easy to befriend.
Just give him mango from the tree
and if you don't have that,
give him fish.
I usually do duck feathers! By the time I get to Ginger Island, I usually have a few laying around. 😁
You really did a great job on this video, and I've had some of the same thoughts too.
Also tbh I would have loved it if there had been an Indigenous people on Ginger Island. Then instead of taking over and colonizing you learn to coexist and share the land, and you could trade with them.
I would have loved to see a permanent culture on the island. I'm sure it would have been tough to satisfy everyone though!
Gotta love some controversy in a video about a farming sim game.
The lack of diversity in Star Dew really gets to me. There’s more mythological creatures than poc or disabled people in Star Dew. And the disabled people kind of fall into stereotypical tropes (all being “crotchety” or “mean” men)
YEAH! That's something I feel has been echoed to CA and back again, and I feel as though he may be trying to change for his new game. Can't get too excited, but it's something worth hoping for that he may include more positive representation!
Wow! What a take. I really appreciate Linus' involvement in getting him to Stardew Valley, but when I played this I took it to mean less about "culturing" him and more that, as he got to know the farmer, he realized he's more lonely than he thought he was. Interdependence is important and Leo got some of that from the parrots for sure, but I think other drives-- including companionship, like wanting it with Jas-- were also what drew him to Stardew Valley too. (Jas is also the only female child around his age but that's neither here nor there)
This is all tricky stuff to unpack and I agree there absolutely are some hints to the Jungle book trope. I also think that whenever we move to a new society we have to adjust to the norms. Us as the farmer are included in that and it's obvious in the heart system we play by.
I'll stop here before I get too existential with the heart system and society 😅 Thank you for making this and having me think about this a bit more!
Bruh the island is literally only populated by parrots and the island is basically 2 minutes away from the man island on the map, this is just trying to add depth and racism into something that clearly is not asking for it.
Edit: I just generally do not get the point this guy is trying to make, Leo is the one who wanted to move then proceeded to have the same life style as he did beforehand, just with human contact.
Hey thanks for the comment and thanks for checking it out. My point was not that we should leave Leo to live with parrots on the island.
It was that we unconsciously repeat these archetypes that are rooted in some nasty places, and we should be a little more thoughtful about them. Leo's not Tarzan or Mowgli, but the parallels are hard to miss. That's all!
I still love the game, and still respect CA a ton. I just want to bring attention to where some of these tropes came from.
So white kids aren't allowed to be abandoned in the wild in stories now without it being racist, even though there are plenty of real life examples? Not only that, but the colonialism point doesn't work if your character isn't white. And I say white in particular because that's the race you were gunning for. Honestly I think you are looking fat too deep into somthing that's just supposed to be a fun postage content. And for what? To tell people that they're racist for liking somthing that's got in my opinion, very little to do with race if anything at all.
Not only that, but people don't know anything about extinct cultures and civilisations until someone discovers it. So I'm guessing people aren't allowed to be archaeologists any more either? That or cultures are better off staying dead than being discovered so they can be shared with the world. Seriously, none of this makes sense when you really think about it for just 5 seconds
Loved this video as someone of aboriginal descent ♡ I like that you are tackling the concept of colonialism in this and it's something we should all strive to become more comfortable talking about and knowing what it is/what it looks like and to not have others impose what they think is right or necessary on others ♡ Thanks for the A+ content as always!
i completely understand where your coming from, but i think you missed the mark here. the key difference is that leo always wanted to be in civilization. he wanted to be around other people and always knew he wasnt a bird. not only that, but leo *is* incredibly intelligent. if he was able to remember how to speak english after not doing so for a long time, he’s obviously not going to be able to speak it well. but eloquence doesnt equate to intelligence. the fact that he can still speak english is incredibly impressive, especially for a child. a child who, by the way, is living on a dangerous island with parrots as his only guardians. of course we want to take him back to civilization where there are adults who can monitor and take care of him, thats not safe for a child.
More than arguing that Leo belongs in the wild, I would like for people to think about where the stories that permeate our identities come from.
If I remade this video, I would put a heavier focus on why we keep telling this story, where it comes from, and what that says about us.
I’m recently just now playing through the new update (I know, like a year too late, but hey, Genshin brainrot I suppose). While I agree with some of your speculation here, and it’s definitely something to consider, there are also some key elements that sort of take Leo away from the picture of it. For one, Leo doesn’t act like or treat himself as the head of the animal species or anything like that. He comments in the beginning on the hierarchy for birds that get ahold of and eat golden walnuts, and how he hopes to eventually be seen as an experienced/elder parrot. He speaks of other creatures being dangerous and being cautious of things. He sees himself, albeit as a defense mechanism as indicated in his 2 heart event, as one of the birds, not a leader of them or anything of that sort, and the birds are the ones helping him thrive more than the other way around. So I think that already is a few steps away from the trope you’re referencing (where while the human characters of those stories deem the animals to be their family, they are also the ones solving problems for this animal family and or conquering risks that family faces, implying that the existence of a human in their communities made their lives better. The parrots seem pretty self sufficient and they were probably more than capable of taking care of themselves before Leo, with Leo, and after Leo leaves).
The other part that differs is that, Leo knows he doesn’t belong - not just in a Disney esque “I’m not the other kids” trope, but quite literally so. He remembers his parents and that they died. He has some vague recollection of living with human society. He yearns to return to it, but is worried that he will no longer belong or about leaving his family behind. And, as you noted briefly, he chooses to leave and still considers himself part of the family he came from. And likewise we’re not taking a child away from his family to colonize him - we’re getting an abandoned child off of a potentially dangerous island where he’s lived off of walnuts, ginger and taro root for who knows how long and making sure he’s taken care of 😅
Now, why I don’t have the option to adopt him myself and take him in at the farm where he can come with me to ginger island as he pleases, I don’t know. Frankly I’d go through dozens of extra steps to make that happen because he’s a precious little bean and I’d a take him in in a heartbeat lol
my big problem with this video is that you kind of proved yourself wrong. it WOULD be messed up if we industrialized an inhabited island. but it wasn't inhabited, and that was an intentional decision. my second problem is that Leo isn't really on top of the social order. he lives with the birds as equals. also, he CHOOSES to come to the island, and he continues his lifestyle there with Linus, just with more human interaction, which is honestly good for him. he is a CHILD. one who was orphaned on an island and was cut off from the rest of the world for who knows how long. i see the point you're trying to make, but Leo is not part of the problem you're addressing. his arc is about a child being allowed to be a child again.
There is nothing disturbing about Leo's story arc and I'm disappointed you chose to focus on a perceived tacet acceptance of Kipling's "White Man's Burden" as opposed to Leo's history such as who his parents were and grandparents might be. There is absolutely no need for Concerned Ape to introduce a story line where the civilized take over the native's home. Besides, the volcano cave insinuates the island was inhabited by another civilization long ago. It would have been nice to discover more about the more recent inhabitants and the origins of the island farm in the game as well. Regardless, I think you missed an opportunity to explore Leo instead of proselytizing on the ills of "civilized" versus "native".
Through the lens of every terrible thing the dole family did to Hawaii, I am *extremely* uncomfortable with the idea of a building pineapple empire (or ancient fruit or whatever) empire on the dream of an uninhabited (now) island paradise, free for the taking. Every time my banana trees need a shake it's like...whose land am I on? Who am I exploiting here?
There's literally a livestock sanctuary in Hawaii while native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders make up half of Hawaii's homeless population. To say nothing of the beachfront highrise hotels and telescopes on sacred land.
I don't know what changes would make me feel better about the colonialism woven through the ginger island arc but I'm hopeful that the the modding community takes up the banner of doing *something* with it.
I respect ConcernedApe so much and yet I also wish he'd sought out a sensitivity reader early in drafting the story for 1.5.
(Also as a white kid who watched a lot of Gullah Gullah Island growing up, the vibes given off by CA's dialectical choices for the gourmand frog are ... Not ... Great. Really not great. Reminds me of the choices that spurred antiracist backlash against JarJar Binks back in 1999.)
i haven't installed it, but there it a diverse ginger island mod on nexusmods that seems interesting !! it drew inspiration from a pacific islander's criticism of the 1.5 update, and rewrote pretty much everything there is to be about ginger island from what i could see in the preview images.
@@Valentina-mv2ux I'm definitely going to try it out on my (first!) modded playthrough--ive only played on switch so far.
(My coordination in my left hand is really weak so I'm frustratingly bad at wasd controls--but I finally have a controller for PC now)
To be honest you are over thinking it.
this was less about leo
more about us and how we think "i am always right"
Pretty much! Leo is just our reference point. No fault of his own.
thought provoking topic
This has been my favorite of your character deep dives. I hadn't gotten far enough in my friendship with Leo to learn that he moved to Pelican Town, so when I heard you mention that I was shocked. It didn't feel good. It reminded me of the way white people have, for so long, tried to erase the native culture in children. After the yts staged a coup and overtook the Hawaiian Kingdom, teaching in Hawaiian was banned. The language is now classified as critically endangered by UNESCO.
I know it's not the same. Leo is a child living alone in the Jungle. But so was Mowgli. which is why it brings to mind these uncomfortable ideas. (And as a Filipinx, fuck Rudyard Kipling.)
So, I don't know what the answer is.... it's complicated. I think if CA had tried to make a POC native culture on the island that might've been a little uncomfortable as well, unless he hired someone else to do the writing and character design. We have other races in SV. I think if we had discovered a dwarven civilization living underground after finishing the volcano dungeon, that would've been super cool. I mean, who the heck built that forge?!
Anyway, excellent video. Having a discourse about this subject is challenging and I very much respect you for making this video.
Thank you! You're right that it's just a difficult situation. I obviously don't have an answer. Yes, Leo will do better with Healthcare and running water. But it is still worth discussing where these stories we tell ourselves come from!
I didn't really like this video, as you got waayy too political for a game. However I understand this is how you make youe videos and I still like most of them and will continue to watch :)
That's fair! Thanks for checking it out regardless!
I agree with a lot of your points. I think Leo's story arc is supposed to mirror Linus. Linus chose to live in the wild whereas Leo had it forced on him. When offered to leave the wild, Linus decided not to but Leo chose to leave the island.
So I've read the comments first and watched the video after. The comments made me feel like the video contains some crazy opinions far from what the ginger island really is. But after I've watched the video myself I was really surprised how has people reacted ...
Although I don't agree with every point made. I believe the island have always been deserted except for dwarf civilization, parrots and pirates. The ginger island house was made by Birdie's husband, which is kind of mentioned in the journal scraps. So with exception of proffesor Snail, who is obsessed with his research to the degree he goes alone to unknown island, can be the island NPCs seen as castaways and the island as deserted.
However I see all of the other points valid. I really like the concept of ginger island and I enjoy playing it but it's kind of wierd we can use the land for farming even though it's not ours. I don't really like that.
I could go deeper with my comment. The video really makes a lot of room for a dabate.
I still want to thank Concerned Ape that he made the ginger island the way he did. It's hard to create something and I believe he did his best as always. Noone is absolutely flawless and nothing would be ever created if people keep thinking about it too deeply.
Me, a Filipino surprised Ruyard Kipling was mentioned: Ah yes thank u for the seemingly permanent colonial mentality good sir 💀👍
Sorry Nikki.... 😔
Honestly this is a nuanced, grounded and absolutely true take about Leo. There was something bugging me about his whole arc and I couldn’t quite find the words for it - but you said it perfectly
that’s a very deep interpretation, and it makes a lot of sense. i always assumed that concernedape left the ruined structures there just as placeholders to prevent you from putting other things in the way of future structures
but it does add a lot of questions and lore to the game
but i guess maybe it was just the parrots that built it? they’re kind of acting as the native population, and it’s clear they’re capable of building complex structures
i don’t know why they abandoned their structures and let them fall into disarray, maybe there’s some lore behind that
and you’re right about the people trying to tame leo
mayor lewis (though briefly mentioned) definitely is trying to fit him into a mold instead of trying to learn more about him. it seems he does this to every newcomer, as i remember him saying nearly the exact line to the farmer in the farmer’s early days in the valley. he seems to be wary of new people, and tries to make them fit his ideal.
penny isn’t too guilty imo, she more just wants him to have the same educational opportunities as vincent and jas
i think his friendship with linus is very beneficial to him, because linus understands better than anyone how important it is to keep your connection to nature and your roots in general
he encourages leo to retain his sense of self while still learning new things
one detail i noticed and really enjoy is how upon moving to the valley, leo doesn’t change his hair or outfit. he keeps the same appearance despite now having access to “civilized” clothes, and i think maybe he chose to do so. or maybe linus helped him with the decision, but either way i think it was a good move because it allowed him to keep a lot of his individuality.
in my mind, even though on the fore-front leo is supposed to represent the orphaned child trope, he could also be a metaphor for indigenous people and their relationship to a more “developed” society. concernedape shows how some people try to change him or “fix” him, and only a small number encourage him and his culture and only try to get him to meet new people and not be alone anymore. leo’s background before the shipwreck is ambiguous, so his culture really is that of the parrots native to the island. and speaking of the whole “orphan raised by animals,” i think concernedape’s decision to not change leo’s appearance upon his arrival to the valley helps kinda break away from some of the racial bias hidden in the trope. for example, in one of the tarzan sequels(?) jane gets tarzan to wear his father’s suit and dress him up more like what she’s used to (in context i don’t think this was malicious though, but it still stands to say she was definitely imposing many european traditions on him throughout that film). this and many others fall into the idea of “civilizing the wild man.” concernedape strays from this by keeping leo as unchanged as possible as he moves away from the island. it was a wise choice in my opinion, intentional or not. but i do agree that more diversity being a potential of the island would have been welcome, but in doing so it would have had to have been very carefully handled so as not to add a whole white/civilized savior complex to the game, because that just wouldn’t fit the game. anthropomorphic animals much better fit the pre-existing vibe of the game, because the game is meant to have that kind of magical theme. but still, it’s interesting to think about all the directions that the island could have gone and what it calls to mind.
It would be nice to be able to somehow purchase a deed to what seems to be a second farm that ginger island provides. If nobody else I imagine Mr. Qi is the type to just casually own a large plot of land on an island somewhere. He is rich, mysterious, and shady after all.
I don't have anything deep to say really, just that as a subscriber, a player of SDV, and a person living in the Philippines, it makes me happy that you relate the game to our history. That seldom happens and I actually at first didn't see it like that, but thank you. It makes us seen.
5:40 ....920 walnuts?! Leo and the parrots going to be impressed.
Well, I'm just feeling that Willy get left out. He cares about Leo, he doesn't have family. I just little bit hope that he will be with Willy and them both will have family again. But now he's with Linus and Penny. Their relationship is more like teacher and student. It kinda makes me sad.
Willy does get to spend some time fishing with Leo! Not sure how often that happens, but it does happen!
Another awesome vid Leap! Great job in the trials today (or, well, probably a while back for you, but shown off today)
I can see the concerns that are being presented here. I would like to share my own take, however. I always thought that the farm house was hinted to belong to the person that wrote the journals. Maybe it wasn't always a farm? I thought the island had more of a Gilligan's island vibe to it. In the made for TV movie at the end of the series, they all get off the island, but realize that it was peaceful there and they missed each other and went back. I always saw the farmer as the Gilligan character, for lack of a better term. They are there to help and connect people. Thats just my two cents! Im not saying its good or bad.
I love Linus
But he took my bird baby
Please someone make an "Adopting Leo" mod already
I don't think we as the player are trying to civilize Leo at least that's never how I thought of him or thought of my interactions with him. Honestly to me his story comes across more so like someone who is with a group that while he enjoys being with and gets along with he nevers fully fits in and you as the player come around and he someone who walks like him and talks like him and someone he can maybe fully relate too and once you prove that you are willing to work within the confines of the society he grew up in and you respect that society he feels safe enough to interact with you to see if he can relate to you and he makes the choice to leave all on his own for the most part only asking you for more information on the mainland and your opinion to help himself make that choice. He is someone that was thrust into a community that he never really fit into fully and while you may have enjoyed his time there it was never 100% him and then he finds other people from other communities to make a home for himself that works for him with people he likes being around and with people he can fully emotionally relate to
I love you but this video isn't it. lol
as a native, i’m glad that ca didn’t put a native civilization. not only is the topic of colonization a very very heavy one that needs the utmost respect, it can also very easily fall into stereotypes and while assumedly inadvertently, just flat out racism. while those topics are important to discuss, i prefer it be from people who are highly educated and have personal experience, and not from a cute farming sim
No population isn’t a rare thing for small islands like ginger island, and considering that the island used to be a holiday tourist thing, it’s likely if there WAS people there, they were already...you know.
Also from a story point of view, while stardew does deal with deep issues like addiction and such, it is much more of a “with your choices you can help others” type of angel with these issues. Having inhabitants that are native and against what you are doing would be a hard obstacle, because this island would have literally no use gameplay wise if there were inhabitants who you had to displace, because doing that is...bad. Very bad. And that isn’t the game Stardew Valley is, where you do horrible acts against humanity (turning kids into doves does not count because like...who tf ACTUALLY has done that irl) so this certainly isn’t a issue that there aren’t natives on the island, it would serve no narrative use.
Honestly an easy fix for the farmland would be an executor for you're grandpa's will/estate sending you a letter informing that there had always been another deed and it was meant to be given to the player when it was deemed they could handle it.
As for Leo, I agree, let us just straight up adopt the boy and maybe make it more clear he was articulate and such from the beginning as others have pointed out. Hell, even just giving him days where you find him on the island, like 50/50 time in the valley and on the island would help a lot.
Do wish we had gotten to see more inhabitants on the island, but I kind of always got the feeling it was meant to be one of those places where the original population disappeared at some point (which if CA went with that kind of idea fully he could put in lots of hints about what happened and where they went, maybe even that they moved to the valley leaving the island abandoned)
I like the idea of Grandpa having ownership of part of the island, but does that just kick the issue back a generation if the rest of the island stays as is? How did he get it? Did he plant a flag? Was it passed down in the family? 🤔 It definitely solves the feeling of "eminent domain" ing the island though, and that's a big win!
@@Leapalot that is a good question and one that would have to be expanded on. There's a lot of ways it could have worked, like maybe an ancestor was an original inhabitant and it's been passed down? It's a tricky situation all around. It does seem like Grandpa was pretty established, and if we combine it with my other idea of all the inhabitants leaving to the valley then it works out I think.
CA is also working on the Haunted Chocolatier and the game is 6 years old, so I can see not adding a whole other civilization to the new island. It would've been cool to gain the respect of the people and see how things went for us. Though I also see CA not doing it so it's still that fun relaxing game, they didn't spend more time on the game and not having to make even more back stories and in depth characters.
I always thought the parrots are the natives of Ginger Island, and they eventually just let the structures fall apart because they don’t need them. I also genuinely thought that Leo was part bird.
(I haven’t unlocked the island myself, so this is all just my impression from other people’s videos, etc)
I mean he speaks their language and eats their food. Still a human as far as I know though! 🤔
I think you're allowing your own station in life (a white guy) bias your interpretation. My farmer and I arent white so your take kinda falls apart and its not like colonialism is something done exclusively by white people. Besides, no one imposed anything on Leo. Hes a lonely kid who gets tired of talking to birds.
I agree with you but by a completely different reason.
For starters what Leop is doing here, is not telling you that "the farmer is a colonialist imposing his/her agenda over this child because he/she believe that his/her ways are the ones" What Leop is actually doing here is telling us that "mmm maybe Concerned Ape is doing this because he have internalized these colonialism ideas".
Thing is that not only white tribes or civilizations have colonialized other cultures in fact this "white colonialism" is a pretty modern concept when it past it was just "conquering and assimilation" since from almost every great civilization's perspective others weaker were inferior even as humans (And so slavery was justify from so long).
So yeah, if we assume that what the players do with Leo is imposing his ideas of civilization over a weaker tribe like colonialism, then his/her ethnicity is not an excuse
@@mado-wh4jv But... Leo doesn't have a culture ?? There's no tribe with a rich history, there's no beliefs that colonialism would need to change. It's just a single kid trapped on the island after his parent's accidental death. I see nothing wrong in helping him socialize with his peers.
@@mado-wh4jv Yeah completely agreed. Not only is this clearly not colonialism, but colonialism isn't an exclusively white people thing. The Chinese were originally from what is currently a part of Northern China. They ended up colonizing almost all of Southeast Asia. Same with the Japanese displacing the Ainu and the Mongolians displacing the peoples of Central Asia. Arabs are originally from Saudi Arabia but colonized nearly the entire Middle East and North Africa.
@@michaela2634 And here in South America, the Incas were enslaving and killing all smaller tribes for imperialists and religious reasons, actually, some historians say that the reason why the colons were so welcomed was because the natives believed that they came to set them free from the abuses of Inca's empire.
It's possible! As much as I try to take a step back, I'll always be who I am. But regardless of the farmer's skin color, Leo's story teaches us that assimilation to the dominant culture is the key to happiness. Is that a good thing? Maybe for Leo specifically. But I don't think it's a good sentiment.
Super thoughtful perspective, here and in your other videos in this series 🤍
CA(concerenedApe) I'm gonna make an new island to let the end game farmers explore
Leapalot but why *talks about philosophy and history*
me stop trying to explain logicz, it fun
Oops..😅
How did you comment 22 hours ago if the video came out 20 seconds ago?
@@struglemufin174 probably member early access
I hadn't thought about this. Interesting video! And I appreciate you not being scared to touch on this stuff even though its controversial
I think that's what makes it worth talking about!
So what you’re saying is that if I find a little kid roaming the woods with their only adult supervision being literal feral animals, I should just let nature take its course?
I get what you’re going for here, but Leo’s kind of an inappropriate target. It would be one thing if he was a happy kid raised by actual humans who just have a different way of life from from the people of stardew, but that’s far from the case here.
It’s hardly white savior complex to want a human child to have more stability in their lives than just birds
Nah, Leo will do better in town. He was a kid with a fairly standard upbringing.
What I'm suggesting is that we should be thoughtful about the stories we tell each other and ourselves, and recognize where they come from and what motivated them. That's all!
Thanks for checking it out!
I’m glad other people wanted to adopt Leo too. When I found out you couldn’t and he just lives in a tree, I was really upset but I’ve grown to be okay with it and bring him his favorite food from time to time despite being at 10 hearts with him. I think the first time I saw Leo, I told my mom about the character and bravely said “I am going to become the bestest friends with this child”
This has to be one of the worst takes you've ever had. Instead of trying to find some hidden innate Tumblr theory about the white mans burden, let's look at the story at face value. It's a kid who has lost everything being reunited with his species. Sure, Leo may love the parrots but in the end they're animals. It's very unlikely that he can connect to them in the same way he could a human. Additionally, Leo differs in real life examples of wild children because he was separated later in life, old enough and recent enough for him to still have decent language skills. Like jeez dude
I mean, ginger island isn’t that far away. There is another comment that explains this in much greater detail. However, I understand the societal stuff. I do think that this is one of the more out there theories. On a side note, what is the weird Linus portrait in the 6 heart cutscene. Is it in the water or something?
I can agree with some points. I think it would've been more enriching to have the Farmer meet the native population of the land, earn their trust by completing tasks or learning about Ginger Island and then be given a plot of land as a kind of job well done.
Or even learn some new farming techniques from the people who lived there!
Could it be that Leo is the lost boy of Birdy and her Pirate love?
I remember seeing Leo for the first time and being like "is this Linus 2.0"
He will be in the future!
I want to adopt Leo. Let my farmer and her husband adopt the sweet little birdie boy!
He truly is a good little noodle.
Oh geez, i did not expect to hear about the colonization of the Philippine islands as a Filipino.
Gotoro Empire, such potential. Feels like a failed colony of theirs (or a counter resistance/pirate hub), maybe they were* also poisoned by the radioactive ore/irridium?
That's a stupendous idea!
@@Leapalot Maybe Leo and his family were from the Gotoro Empire.
Yeah ima have to disagree with your reading of "we are imposing our culture onto someone as a way to save them".
a huge problem i have with ginger island is that CA didn't use it as an oppurtunity to fix SDV's diversity issue. leo is white, birdie is white, professor snail is white, so what is the point of ginger island being reminiscent of polynesia? maru and demitrius remain as our only major POC characters, why?
i can't even think of any way to fix ginger island to remove the imperialist undertones. it really is just white aestheticized fanatasy of polynesia, without having to grapple with the racist connotation of bringing industrial agriculture to land that isn't yours.
i don't really agree with this video but i do really respect that you made a video about a topic that can be very uncomfortable.
this topic is very important to discuss but i don't think that it's very relevant to sdv.
it also made me a bit uncomfortable when you said that leo wasn't eloquent when you first meet him, because that's just not true.
anyway, no hate to you! our opinions are different and that's okay.
Bad take tbh. You have a problem with squatters and impose this on the farmer, fine. Then you go off on this silly cultural appropriation tangent which completely loses the thread of there being anything at all wrong with Leo, until you say that you think Leo choosing to go to school and talk to people like he repeatedly tells you he wants to do... is bad because this is somehow the uh, town... making Leo... uh... be Leo? Don't read controversy into situations where there is none please.
Holy CRAP! I did NOT expect the sharp turn this video was gunna take. Like... wow!
This was annoyingly preachy.
5:36 The parrots aren't magic birds, they're just typical birds(well their capacity to build is a bit odd given the lack of thumbs, that may be magical. Psychological there's nothing odd though). Parrots are very intelligent creatures and them being portrayed as a people of their own in the game isn't "anthropomorphizing" them. To suggest that is to de-personify parrots. Humans tend to think that they're so much smarter and civilized than other species, when the reality of the situation is that we just got lucky and evolved thumbs first.
Ну и бред, он умеет разговаривать и вроде даже помнит своих родителей, он выживал на острове только благодаря попугаям... он не абориген которого колонизируют, а ребенок который попал в беду и страдает от одиночества
Абсолютно согласен, от видео просто фейспалмы набивал. По задумке автора его надо было оставить дальше жить на острове в дикой природе, где он скорее всего умер бы в раннем возрасте, будучи неопытным ребёнком? Попугаи ему бы раны залатать не помогли я думаю, они не медики... Стардью сама по себе расслабляющая игра и когда сюда пытаются всунуть такие спорные политические темы это просто не вписывается =( ...
I think this is more of a kid lives trope(tarzan) than a savior one, and i feel like shoving an allegory for the settlers into the game would've been weird. I dont think it takes away from the game that it wasn't addressed. Especially sense those subject matters can be very personal to some people and making you,the player, invade people's land could upset people. Over all it was a better idea to not address the concept at all sense its asking for controversy in my opinion. Liked the video tho
Man, I'm Filipino and the Kipling stuff hurts
The Farmer is a true capitalist through and through. Rather than colonize the farm on the island, we buy it from the native birds using their own currency.
That is unfathomably *based.*
As a black person, thank you so much for making this video!
I find it strange how people are open to Stardew Valley including storylines involving homophobia and sexism but draw the line at any mention of cultural or racial bias.
was anyone going to tell me that the author of white man's burden also wrote the jungle book or did i just have to learn it from a sdv video
great analysis btw :^) I've had the same issue w ginger island for a while and I'm glad you talked about it
While I disagree that Leo fits the archetype of civilizing an “animal human,” I do think it’s important to consider the possibility of how frequently this element is glorified in the media. Western culture being propped up as the pinnacle of success, and all other will only “benefit” by being assimilated.
As other people have said before me, I don’t think Leo qualifies because he talks to the farmer about wanting to be around people again, and all of the humans give him the space to decide what he wants to do, rather than coax him “to a better life.” I think him being able to live mostly like Linus is a show that be can choose whatever lifestyle and activities make him the happiest. He even goes back to Ginger Island on Mondays for the whole day, so he still gets to spend time with his parrot family. He’s not being civilized so much as being welcomed by the inhabitants of SDV to live in whatever ways suit him the best.
Your video is thought-provoking, and the lack of diversity is one of my complaints about this game as a whole. It's small, but things like your children automatically being white and only a couple characters being of color. Ultimately, I do think the creator had an opportunity to create an interesting and diverse community for Ginger Island, and it would have been much cooler if they took it. Whether people see it or not, the creator did choose to make hyper-intelligent birds that Leo can understand instead of true Islanders, and a storyline that can be perceived as a White Savior story arc.
Leo was never alone. The birds do talk to you and Leo, even giving hints about where to find Golden Walnuts, and they build structures on the island too. The parrots could have been people, and Leo didn't need to be saved. The idea he needs to be saved is based is ethnocentrism. The story could have been more wholesome if he lived on the Island with Native Islanders who accepted him and raised him as their own upon the shipwreck, and after getting to know the farmer, he visits the Valley every now and again and makes some friends.
BRO WAIT IM EARLY FIRST TIME YAY !!!!!!
6:45 kinda unrelated but i rmbr learning that some of my classmates had to memorize that poem for their classes 😭 i found that weird as a filipino but ok
That's a little uncomfortable....
even though leo’s story is really controversial and a little uncomfortable, i think one bad thing doesn’t ruin the game. ca did such a good job with ginger island and leo shouldn’t ruin it
Agreed. The game will still be my favorite forever!
I feel it’s a case of wanting something from a game that isn’t here to discuss it. Yes, not having a civilization is an “easy way out” but were you really expecting to find that in Stardew Valley? If you’re looking for that story, I’d recommend Horizon Zero Dawn, especially Forbidden West. It helps digest these topics with examples of this behavior without flooding it with things you might already hold opinions about.
I think you are going on a wild ride with this one here. Bringing up the White Mans Burden because an Island in the middle of the ocean has an abandoned hut on it, which could have been build by literally anyone like pirates from long ago for example, is nonsense. And Tarzan being a White "savage" makes complete sense. He is the son of a British lord in the book. So there is nothing wrong with him being White, and frankly if he was Black "savage" making monkey noises that would be actually racist, no?
I think you bring up some great points in this!
That beginning... that weirded me out as I played as a female farmer my first run and befriended Linus (I have a soft spot for the outcasts), and that 4-heart (?) scene made me go "omg did he just..." and then he said LOOK it's my homemade bait! And I breathed a sigh of relief and started laughing.
lmao
I don’t really talk to Leo in the slightest. I just know he likes parrots and likes the trees
Don't forget Poi!