This makes sense to me. I died 7 times in a row to a genji as zen and didn't care at all. I died to sombra once and got pissed. Losing is inevitable, and if it's extremely unfun when you lose, it's a bad experience.
the best games are often the ones you lose which are really close, or when you feel the enemy team is playing similar to you. Thats why rein mains like me love to rein v rein. When I get 3 map kills on the enemy rein, I'm satisfied, even if his team ended up beating mine by a close margin, I know we were evenly matched and it didn't feel like the winners didn't deserve it. I even endorse the enemy tank in a match like that.
Exactly! one experience makes you want to take on that zen an 8th time and the other experience can make you want to log off. this is why buffing or nerfing sometimes isn't the answer when the kit itself makes it feel like you couldn't win no matter how well you played.
@@spencerknutsen464 now I feel like the bad characters are ruining rein matchups too. I was trying to play rein one game, and sombra just waited in a corner to hack me so the enemy rein could get a free shatter or pin, then I get life gripped to safety so even that didn't matter lol Zero agency
I'd rather get killed by Sombra 10 times than even seeing Genji on the scoreboard for a millisecond. Sombra is annoying to play against, but she doesn't have a "there's literally nothing you can do to me" button. You can at least try to hit her in her invis, and her movement ability is neither instant nor simultaneously also a kill ability.
I stopped playing OW because it felt like people were way too obsessed with winning and playing the 'correct' characters, even in quick play. It was the first pvp fps I had ever really enjoyed playing when it felt like people were having fun with the game, and it's probably the last one I will play too. I did disagree with you about the UI, but I played RTS and point and click educational games as a kid so reading and looking at the UI feels very much like a natural part of the game experience. I appreciate your approach to your content though, and look forward to hearing more of your perspective.
i respect the healthy disagreements still i could always be wrong! I just prefer to always see if we can implement stuff in game to help players learn and leave UI as a last resort. sometimes UI is the only way but idk. testing is required and no matter what we come up with here without testing there's no way to know for sure. it does feel like overwatch has changed over the years. it's definitely not as fun as it used to be. both winning and losing is no longer fun for me and lots of times i queue up and wonder why i did now. i miss when the game was a bit more silly and broken and people were having fun. appreciate your comments and watching my videos still!
Adding to your point, I believe overwatch players are more focused in not losing insted of winnig, thats why counter-watch is a meme. Because people think that if the play "the correct character" they are getting an easy win, but obviously, you need to play the character correctly to benefint from the advantage that provides you. So, if you win that match counter pincking you opponent, you get less satisfaction because you are playing with the "correct character" insted of the one that you enjoy the most, and, if instead you lose, get a lot of frustation for losing with the "correct character".
@ashonline77 I can play a game where our team is controlling the high ground/side lanes, where a support knows it's there job to help DPS control that space... and the very next game my entire team stacks as a ball and stands on the payload as they get shot from 17 different angles and go back to respawn over and over without ever contesting the angles. There is an obvious gap in game knowledge between the two teams in this scenario, yet the match rank is the same. One game can feel like a sweat fest, while the next can feel like it's a bots vs bots match. There isn't much consistency when it comes to matchmaking.
@@jeremyashcraft2053 Again none of what you mentioned is a matchmaker issue. The matchmaker just has accounts assigned with their ranks and gets you as best a match as possible within the limitations of the player population. It even matches closely between roles rather than just the average rank of each team. Man i didn't wanna essay but you give me no choice so here goes... The problem is that there are too many variables that the matchmaker can't account for. Like for example, if timmy won 10 games and climbed to plat 5 due to the sheer rng of having everyone in his team perform close to their best and other random factors from anywhere between c9s, drunk players in enemy team, lil bro playing on big bros account, enemy junkrat is high as a kite etc but it wasn't because of his improvement and the real rank he deserves is gold 3. He now is in a plat lobby with plat 1 players in the enemy team and this time the drunk junkrat is on his team, he and his team is gonna perform poorly even though the matchmaker can clearly see that he is now plat 5 and should be able to deal with other plat players. See what i'm getting at? Its not something thats wrong with the matchmaker. Humans just aren't that consistent. Everyone has matches where they are playing as the server admin because a lot of variables align like team comp, map, player performance etc and then have matches where you get rolled against people of the same rank and its because there are just too many variables that cause the outcomes of every single match, down to even a single usage of an ability or a missed shot.
@@jeremyashcraft2053 how would it be improved? the matchmaker is as unbiased as it can be, Its only trying to make two numbers as close as possible to one another: each opposing players MMR. That MMR is very simply earned higher or lower by winning or losing consistently. It feels like you may be attributing external factors to the matchmaking.
Very good video, but focusing on a part towards the end a little, in my experience the thing that's helped me the most with enjoying the game more has been changing my mindset and focusing more on what I could've possibly done instead of my teammates. I still struggle with getting frustrated with what I perceive to be bad plays from my allies (which I feel is a fundamental issue with team-based games like this that can't really be controlled) but it's genuinely helped a lot to shift my mindset away from my teammates and towards my own actions, as well as recognizing that the enemy team can Just Make Good Plays. It's something I picked up mostly from watching Emongg/ML7 who basically never blame their allies and just focus on what they can do for their team instead, it leans into the psychology part of the game but it's kinda wild how a simple shift in mindset can make the game so much more enjoyable
Oh you're entirely correct. A lot of times mindset can do a lot with this. Emongg is great at this. My only point is that through design we can also alleviate some of it. For example, say you're playing a single player game and you fight a boss. If you die over and over again and cannot figure out what to do eventually you'll blame the game and stop. Let's say I give you a telegraph to know where to stand to avoid damage. You win first try and suddenly fighting enemies becomes boring and repetitive and you stop playing. Third option I give you a dodge mechanic and you fight the boss and die but you realize you're getting hit less each time you fight him. You beat him 4th try and you now feel it's earned. When a player blames themselves for a loss they come back to play. Having a positive mindset is great no matter what but video games can help you get those mindset by making sure you felt you had the tools to win. I think overwatch 2 makes me feel like at times I didn't have the tools to win.
"Im not a top 500 player Ill admit that. I don't play enough to do that and I don't want to, like I'd be miserable, they look miserable! I don't want to do that" I mostly play quick play, but when I do queue comp I've also hovered around low masters and I feel this in my soul. Grinding comp is just my least favorite way to play the game, the queue times are longer, people push to counterswap more, and I feel like I miss out on the silliness that comes with people trying new things in quick play. I just cant justify playing strictly to win over whatever is going to be fun for ME. I'd add that casual modes are the best tutorial mode a game like overwatch can offer, being able to innovate in your gameplay without the drama or emotion of an attached rank. The best way to learn how to interact with a hero that gives you problems is to play that hero yourself. Casual is a sandbox to better understand different playstyles, weaknesses, and strengths present in the cast.
you understand it perfectly. rank isn't everything and neither is winning and sometimes even when you know how to win you don't want to. experimenting, playing around, taking risks on silly plays are all part of fun gameplay. quickplay takes off a lot of that pressure to experiment and just have fun. also in quickplay people are less likely for you to get upset for trying something new. i tell my friend all the time sometimes you just have to stress test and see what you can get away with. i will admit that normally i play a lot of comp in OW but marvel rivals comp is already here and i've just continued with quickplay. i'm having fun experimenting and learning still. i don't want to rush to see who's meta or force certain playstyles. casual playing is the best tutorial like you said. i'm still learning lots about the game so i'm still happy to queue up more quickplay with my friends. it's probably the healthiest form the game.
As someone with poor vision, overwatch's visual clarity problems put me off of the game years ago. More text and brightly colored moving objects isn't helpful to players that already struggle to tell what's happening on screen.
this is an excellent perspective thank you for commenting. may i ask what are some things that help you play games with your vision the way that it is?
I can't tell whats happening half the time but still enjoy it lol, they did mess up the audio mixing going to ow2 adding a ton of bass and reverb for no reason so spacial sound goes out the window same goes for overlapping voices and sound effects
Brigitte is actually a great character (now, not at launch), once you understand how to play her. But I do agree her design is counter intuitive making it extremely difficult to pickup and realize her healing is in effect. It's too bad, because a melee healer is interesting and has potential, but it's also been so long and they've done nothing but tweak her numbers
@@jerod256 yeah I should have been a little clearer in that Brigitte now isn't so bad balance wise and everything is just the lack of easy visual understanding. Basically someone needs to explain how she works too understand and I wonder if there's ways to visually show it better so new players could pick her up faster.
@@arinrobinson3898 As someone who has played this game since release, it took me until a month ago to learn that brig healing aura doesn't follow her character model around and is an aoe burst from the point of contact.
@@MhnFive TIL Brig aura doesn't follow her around LOL jesus christ i've been playing this game since 2016 too and i still didn't know that either. well thank you for proving my point well.
In my opinion, Overwatch has from the very beginning been a game that makes it very difficult to understand where you went wrong. Only duels against a handfull of heroes make enough sense to determine your mistakes for an experienced FPS player, and that's not considering the complexity of teamfights. That doesn't mean that the game is impossible to learn and improve in, I mean look at your rank and the ranks of thousands of high-skilled players. The issue is that newer and lower-ranked players must seek external sources and thoroughly analyse their gameplay to learn and improve. There are so many concepts one needs to learn that are just not apparent from simply playing the game by trial and error. Thinking outside the box is putting it lightly.
I do agree with your overall message, just not about the UI, if they add the "left 4 dead thing" it's going to be just like wave spawn. It will help people all around play better as a team. Imagine if they added the auto aim from cod zombies, that would be super dumb and not fun at all. But the UI would help people play as a team. Like your tank knowing better who needs backup or your support knowing better who needs healing. making the game more team oriented, and probably making some characters easier to balance.
I see where people are coming from bit I think we might see some unintended consequences. For example let's say we add the UI. Now you as a tank can see when you're supports health is getting low without looking. A big weakness for flankers. OW 2 already has a problem with encouraging players to sit back and shoot and now if tanks are psychic it's an indirect nerf to genji. Along with just adding more to the screen I wonder what ways through design we could teach players to play better. To learn what to do instead of giving them information they may not even know what to do with. The game is more than just winning. Deciding if we want players to have certain information is part of the game. I personally think they're may be better ways but I understand why this seems appealing as well.
hey man have u ever done any martial arts? the way you talk about your philosophy with ow reminds me of how i feel about jiu jitsu and as i watch analysis videos of overwatch and i cant help but to draw parallels to jiu jitsu on multiple different levels
I actually have not but i'd be curious to learn the overlaps they have. I know game design has a lot to do with human psychology so maybe there's some similar elements that jiu jitsu has with that as well.
@@arinrobinson3898 There's definitely a lot of overlap in the reward of grinding OW / a fighting game / other competitive games and martials arts in that sense of visualizing your skill improve that you described, at least for me. That feeling of losing a close match that you know you could've won still being a good experience is why you have a rival in Pokemon or why you pair off when you're learning martial arts. You mentioned doing videos on other games - Overwatch is sort of a crossover between fighting games like Street Fighter and a first person shooter, so that's somewhere to look at
Small suggestion, please add links to other videos you reference for viewers who are somewhat new. I paused this to go look for it in the descrip and also on your channel and nothing popped out at first. I wanted to understand the context in whole better
"if youre not enjoying the losses" morgan said this also,,,, if we did it my way you'd enjoy loseses more,,, who's to say how you can actually do that though?,,,,, we want people to enjoy the loses, what do you propose??
A huge thing with ui / free information is that it decides what skills will be necessary to succeed. Devs should be able to decide and stand by what skills they want to determine a "good" vs "bad" player All UI reinforces or more likely removes some required "skill" For example, if Blizzard decided memorisation was an important skill it would be objectively correct to hide things like ammo or ability cooldowns to emphasise needing a good memory. Would it be stupid and unfun? Probably. But it prioritises a desired skill. The biggest problem regarding UI in my opinion is devs not communicating what factors they want to make a "highly skilled" player
I think there's something to be said about Rein mirrors, and how they so often can be a lot of fun. There's no magic uno reverse in a Rein v Rein that don't come from other players, and if you get pinned or shattered you messed up somewhere + the mindgames that comes with that. P.S. Until they can figure out a better way to tell players who is alive and has ult through gameplay somehow, the party frames will be a great addition to the game. It's less UI than tab
Perhaps a great innocuous example is Minecraft. I was trying to think of games that just give you the end result and the block game came to mind, but even Minecraft has a rather difficult early game, and a relatively brutal punishment for dying while unprepared. A game that is otherwise virtual legos, is mostly differentiated from the competition by, losing items, creepers blowing up your house, and bad mob AI forcing the player to plan their safety or their work collecting the mobs will be undone.
When they added group respawn they havent solved anything. People keep staggering and devs need to deliver this idea. Not to do the things that players are to manage but deliver the concept
I stopped playing competitive because the matchmaking is bad. I can't play quick play because the matchmaking is even worse, and I almost always play against stacks when I solo queue. That's the worst thing that can happen in online games, solo vs. groups. Moreover, this is the game where you will never feel that you are good. Matchmaking always rigs matches so that you will be humiliated and suffer.
losing that feeling of knowing you could have played better and potentially won is the same reason league of legends fell off. i really think creating that feeling should be one of the primary goal to chase for a dev team of a competitve game
Even QP is not fun, cuz the game demands a lot of knowledge of the game, and people just don't understand that An example: mercy players playing mercy, on maybe it's ambiguous, mercy right now is one of the worst supps on the game at least on PC, the problem? The whole game is based on counterpick meta, a mercy who doesn't want to switch to a supp needed in the comp of the team is a loose fo sure, now translate this to the other 2 roles, it's the same, and guess what? Losing in overwatch is not fun😅
yeah, mercy is pretty awful right now but it's cause she doesn't have the tools to help the team win. so it's a problem of the kit. she has a lot of enabling tools but not a lot of playmaking tools. i would like to see an experiment where her res was changed for an offensive tool to help make plays. cause you can't buff or nerf her kit currently in a way in which it feels fair but also she gets value.
Watch the Spilo Dev interview. Get a coach like me. 👍 also there was this famous Super Bowl winning football coach said "winning isnt everything. Its the only thing!"
I feel like i might have seen that one before as i do like a lot of spilo's content. if anyone would be a good designer on overwatch i think he would be my first choice. for that video do you happen to have a link so i know exactly which one to watch again?
I wanna talk about knowing if my team is alive or not by the UI In Marvel Rivals I cannot tell immediately how much of my team is alive and if I should retreat. I guess I’m not used to the “log”sheet or cpunter strike style frag notifs on the upper right, in flavor of Splatoon’s “live players” UI at the top of the screen, where I just glance up there and see we’re down 2 to 4 and I start backing up…
how the game made you feel can't be changed,,,,, overwatch is a game that designs itself,,, it's 5 superheroes vs 5 superheroes,,, just like in real life, not much you can do to make people enjoy that,,,,,,other than giving us the info dense HUD we all desire hahaha :)
give me my basic/good UI that i want and get out of my way,,,, this is the part of the argument youre not understanding sure, let the gun change sounds when it low on ammo....i'll be looking at my HUD
5:20 youre arguing a point not made,,, give me the UI i asked for,,, there is no good reason for you to take it away from me,,,, stop trying to disuade me,,, just give me the HUD i'm asking for,,,, you don't understand
god damn it, ok i think i know how to fix that. i've been experimenting with seeing what gets more traction on the videos. the gamer in me had to test stuff lol but now that you've said this i'll be sure to try and make sure you get them every time now. thank you for letting me know! i'm very new to all this.
youre getting to artistic with it,,, I'm not trying to have fun,,, i'm trying to play a game of overwatch,,,,,,i think this is the angle that you can't understand
@@arinrobinson3898 yeah, beacuse the purpose of playing tennis is to play tennis,,, if you're trying to clear you head or have fun,,, that's outside the realm of discussion,,,, people play tennis to drumroll pls......play tennis! lol :)
@@arinrobinson3898 if you'd like to have a long winded philisophical discussion about fun, learning, and overwatch I'd love to,,, i might learn a thing or two,,,, but it's gotta be over VC, let me know if you have the time, thx
@@rexoverwatch do you think people play tennis cause they hate it? playing tennis is describing an action they are doing but not why they are doing it.
This makes sense to me. I died 7 times in a row to a genji as zen and didn't care at all. I died to sombra once and got pissed. Losing is inevitable, and if it's extremely unfun when you lose, it's a bad experience.
the best games are often the ones you lose which are really close, or when you feel the enemy team is playing similar to you. Thats why rein mains like me love to rein v rein. When I get 3 map kills on the enemy rein, I'm satisfied, even if his team ended up beating mine by a close margin, I know we were evenly matched and it didn't feel like the winners didn't deserve it. I even endorse the enemy tank in a match like that.
Exactly! one experience makes you want to take on that zen an 8th time and the other experience can make you want to log off. this is why buffing or nerfing sometimes isn't the answer when the kit itself makes it feel like you couldn't win no matter how well you played.
@@spencerknutsen464 now I feel like the bad characters are ruining rein matchups too. I was trying to play rein one game, and sombra just waited in a corner to hack me so the enemy rein could get a free shatter or pin, then I get life gripped to safety so even that didn't matter lol
Zero agency
I'd rather get killed by Sombra 10 times than even seeing Genji on the scoreboard for a millisecond. Sombra is annoying to play against, but she doesn't have a "there's literally nothing you can do to me" button. You can at least try to hit her in her invis, and her movement ability is neither instant nor simultaneously also a kill ability.
I stopped playing OW because it felt like people were way too obsessed with winning and playing the 'correct' characters, even in quick play. It was the first pvp fps I had ever really enjoyed playing when it felt like people were having fun with the game, and it's probably the last one I will play too. I did disagree with you about the UI, but I played RTS and point and click educational games as a kid so reading and looking at the UI feels very much like a natural part of the game experience. I appreciate your approach to your content though, and look forward to hearing more of your perspective.
i respect the healthy disagreements still i could always be wrong! I just prefer to always see if we can implement stuff in game to help players learn and leave UI as a last resort. sometimes UI is the only way but idk. testing is required and no matter what we come up with here without testing there's no way to know for sure.
it does feel like overwatch has changed over the years. it's definitely not as fun as it used to be. both winning and losing is no longer fun for me and lots of times i queue up and wonder why i did now. i miss when the game was a bit more silly and broken and people were having fun.
appreciate your comments and watching my videos still!
Adding to your point, I believe overwatch players are more focused in not losing insted of winnig, thats why counter-watch is a meme. Because people think that if the play "the correct character" they are getting an easy win, but obviously, you need to play the character correctly to benefint from the advantage that provides you. So, if you win that match counter pincking you opponent, you get less satisfaction because you are playing with the "correct character" insted of the one that you enjoy the most, and, if instead you lose, get a lot of frustation for losing with the "correct character".
It's not really an FPS anymore, more some kind of broken lame MOBA without the MOBA stuff or mechanics.
The main thing that makes me not want to queue up for another game is poor matchmaking.
The matchmaking is not poor. The matches are sometimes poor due to player inconsistencies and in higher ranks due to lack of overall player numbers.
@ashonline77 I can play a game where our team is controlling the high ground/side lanes, where a support knows it's there job to help DPS control that space... and the very next game my entire team stacks as a ball and stands on the payload as they get shot from 17 different angles and go back to respawn over and over without ever contesting the angles. There is an obvious gap in game knowledge between the two teams in this scenario, yet the match rank is the same. One game can feel like a sweat fest, while the next can feel like it's a bots vs bots match. There isn't much consistency when it comes to matchmaking.
@@jeremyashcraft2053 Again none of what you mentioned is a matchmaker issue. The matchmaker just has accounts assigned with their ranks and gets you as best a match as possible within the limitations of the player population. It even matches closely between roles rather than just the average rank of each team. Man i didn't wanna essay but you give me no choice so here goes...
The problem is that there are too many variables that the matchmaker can't account for.
Like for example, if timmy won 10 games and climbed to plat 5 due to the sheer rng of having everyone in his team perform close to their best and other random factors from anywhere between c9s, drunk players in enemy team, lil bro playing on big bros account, enemy junkrat is high as a kite etc but it wasn't because of his improvement and the real rank he deserves is gold 3. He now is in a plat lobby with plat 1 players in the enemy team and this time the drunk junkrat is on his team, he and his team is gonna perform poorly even though the matchmaker can clearly see that he is now plat 5 and should be able to deal with other plat players. See what i'm getting at?
Its not something thats wrong with the matchmaker. Humans just aren't that consistent. Everyone has matches where they are playing as the server admin because a lot of variables align like team comp, map, player performance etc and then have matches where you get rolled against people of the same rank and its because there are just too many variables that cause the outcomes of every single match, down to even a single usage of an ability or a missed shot.
@@jeremyashcraft2053 how would it be improved? the matchmaker is as unbiased as it can be, Its only trying to make two numbers as close as possible to one another: each opposing players MMR. That MMR is very simply earned higher or lower by winning or losing consistently.
It feels like you may be attributing external factors to the matchmaking.
@@Jaycielantern You sure it's unbiased and not trying to drive engagement with skinner box matchmaking?
The teammate died SFX is really good, and it's only not on by default because it wasn't there on the beginning.
wait... i think I need to turn this on still and try it. i forgot this was a feature.
Very good video, but focusing on a part towards the end a little, in my experience the thing that's helped me the most with enjoying the game more has been changing my mindset and focusing more on what I could've possibly done instead of my teammates. I still struggle with getting frustrated with what I perceive to be bad plays from my allies (which I feel is a fundamental issue with team-based games like this that can't really be controlled) but it's genuinely helped a lot to shift my mindset away from my teammates and towards my own actions, as well as recognizing that the enemy team can Just Make Good Plays. It's something I picked up mostly from watching Emongg/ML7 who basically never blame their allies and just focus on what they can do for their team instead, it leans into the psychology part of the game but it's kinda wild how a simple shift in mindset can make the game so much more enjoyable
Oh you're entirely correct. A lot of times mindset can do a lot with this. Emongg is great at this. My only point is that through design we can also alleviate some of it.
For example, say you're playing a single player game and you fight a boss. If you die over and over again and cannot figure out what to do eventually you'll blame the game and stop. Let's say I give you a telegraph to know where to stand to avoid damage. You win first try and suddenly fighting enemies becomes boring and repetitive and you stop playing. Third option I give you a dodge mechanic and you fight the boss and die but you realize you're getting hit less each time you fight him. You beat him 4th try and you now feel it's earned.
When a player blames themselves for a loss they come back to play. Having a positive mindset is great no matter what but video games can help you get those mindset by making sure you felt you had the tools to win. I think overwatch 2 makes me feel like at times I didn't have the tools to win.
"Im not a top 500 player Ill admit that. I don't play enough to do that and I don't want to, like I'd be miserable, they look miserable! I don't want to do that"
I mostly play quick play, but when I do queue comp I've also hovered around low masters and I feel this in my soul. Grinding comp is just my least favorite way to play the game, the queue times are longer, people push to counterswap more, and I feel like I miss out on the silliness that comes with people trying new things in quick play. I just cant justify playing strictly to win over whatever is going to be fun for ME. I'd add that casual modes are the best tutorial mode a game like overwatch can offer, being able to innovate in your gameplay without the drama or emotion of an attached rank. The best way to learn how to interact with a hero that gives you problems is to play that hero yourself. Casual is a sandbox to better understand different playstyles, weaknesses, and strengths present in the cast.
you understand it perfectly. rank isn't everything and neither is winning and sometimes even when you know how to win you don't want to. experimenting, playing around, taking risks on silly plays are all part of fun gameplay. quickplay takes off a lot of that pressure to experiment and just have fun. also in quickplay people are less likely for you to get upset for trying something new. i tell my friend all the time sometimes you just have to stress test and see what you can get away with.
i will admit that normally i play a lot of comp in OW but marvel rivals comp is already here and i've just continued with quickplay. i'm having fun experimenting and learning still. i don't want to rush to see who's meta or force certain playstyles. casual playing is the best tutorial like you said. i'm still learning lots about the game so i'm still happy to queue up more quickplay with my friends. it's probably the healthiest form the game.
2:02 can’t agree more. Since Flashpoint released, I’ve seen some players call for lines to be placed directing you from one point to the next…
exactly! and they will learn through play till it becomes second nature.
As someone with poor vision, overwatch's visual clarity problems put me off of the game years ago.
More text and brightly colored moving objects isn't helpful to players that already struggle to tell what's happening on screen.
this is an excellent perspective thank you for commenting. may i ask what are some things that help you play games with your vision the way that it is?
Not every game is for everyone
I can't tell whats happening half the time but still enjoy it lol, they did mess up the audio mixing going to ow2 adding a ton of bass and reverb for no reason so spacial sound goes out the window same goes for overlapping voices and sound effects
Brigitte is actually a great character (now, not at launch), once you understand how to play her. But I do agree her design is counter intuitive making it extremely difficult to pickup and realize her healing is in effect. It's too bad, because a melee healer is interesting and has potential, but it's also been so long and they've done nothing but tweak her numbers
@@jerod256 yeah I should have been a little clearer in that Brigitte now isn't so bad balance wise and everything is just the lack of easy visual understanding. Basically someone needs to explain how she works too understand and I wonder if there's ways to visually show it better so new players could pick her up faster.
@@arinrobinson3898 As someone who has played this game since release, it took me until a month ago to learn that brig healing aura doesn't follow her character model around and is an aoe burst from the point of contact.
@@MhnFive TIL Brig aura doesn't follow her around LOL jesus christ i've been playing this game since 2016 too and i still didn't know that either. well thank you for proving my point well.
In my opinion, Overwatch has from the very beginning been a game that makes it very difficult to understand where you went wrong. Only duels against a handfull of heroes make enough sense to determine your mistakes for an experienced FPS player, and that's not considering the complexity of teamfights. That doesn't mean that the game is impossible to learn and improve in, I mean look at your rank and the ranks of thousands of high-skilled players. The issue is that newer and lower-ranked players must seek external sources and thoroughly analyse their gameplay to learn and improve. There are so many concepts one needs to learn that are just not apparent from simply playing the game by trial and error. Thinking outside the box is putting it lightly.
I do agree with your overall message, just not about the UI, if they add the "left 4 dead thing" it's going to be just like wave spawn. It will help people all around play better as a team.
Imagine if they added the auto aim from cod zombies, that would be super dumb and not fun at all. But the UI would help people play as a team. Like your tank knowing better who needs backup or your support knowing better who needs healing.
making the game more team oriented, and probably making some characters easier to balance.
I see where people are coming from bit I think we might see some unintended consequences. For example let's say we add the UI. Now you as a tank can see when you're supports health is getting low without looking. A big weakness for flankers. OW 2 already has a problem with encouraging players to sit back and shoot and now if tanks are psychic it's an indirect nerf to genji.
Along with just adding more to the screen I wonder what ways through design we could teach players to play better. To learn what to do instead of giving them information they may not even know what to do with.
The game is more than just winning. Deciding if we want players to have certain information is part of the game. I personally think they're may be better ways but I understand why this seems appealing as well.
hey man have u ever done any martial arts? the way you talk about your philosophy with ow reminds me of how i feel about jiu jitsu and as i watch analysis videos of overwatch and i cant help but to draw parallels to jiu jitsu on multiple different levels
I actually have not but i'd be curious to learn the overlaps they have. I know game design has a lot to do with human psychology so maybe there's some similar elements that jiu jitsu has with that as well.
@@arinrobinson3898 There's definitely a lot of overlap in the reward of grinding OW / a fighting game / other competitive games and martials arts in that sense of visualizing your skill improve that you described, at least for me. That feeling of losing a close match that you know you could've won still being a good experience is why you have a rival in Pokemon or why you pair off when you're learning martial arts.
You mentioned doing videos on other games - Overwatch is sort of a crossover between fighting games like Street Fighter and a first person shooter, so that's somewhere to look at
I agree with you; however, that UI from the PVE/King’s Mode was a GOD send, and I pray they add it as at least an option for people if they want it.
Small suggestion, please add links to other videos you reference for viewers who are somewhat new. I paused this to go look for it in the descrip and also on your channel and nothing popped out at first. I wanted to understand the context in whole better
Will do thank you! Still learning this so I'll see about making pop up references in the future.
"if youre not enjoying the losses" morgan said this also,,,, if we did it my way you'd enjoy loseses more,,, who's to say how you can actually do that though?,,,,, we want people to enjoy the loses, what do you propose??
A huge thing with ui / free information is that it decides what skills will be necessary to succeed. Devs should be able to decide and stand by what skills they want to determine a "good" vs "bad" player
All UI reinforces or more likely removes some required "skill"
For example, if Blizzard decided memorisation was an important skill it would be objectively correct to hide things like ammo or ability cooldowns to emphasise needing a good memory. Would it be stupid and unfun? Probably. But it prioritises a desired skill.
The biggest problem regarding UI in my opinion is devs not communicating what factors they want to make a "highly skilled" player
you know... you put that even better than I could have. thank you for that. makes me think about how i could word my feelings better.
I think there's something to be said about Rein mirrors, and how they so often can be a lot of fun. There's no magic uno reverse in a Rein v Rein that don't come from other players, and if you get pinned or shattered you messed up somewhere + the mindgames that comes with that.
P.S. Until they can figure out a better way to tell players who is alive and has ult through gameplay somehow, the party frames will be a great addition to the game. It's less UI than tab
Perhaps a great innocuous example is Minecraft. I was trying to think of games that just give you the end result and the block game came to mind, but even Minecraft has a rather difficult early game, and a relatively brutal punishment for dying while unprepared. A game that is otherwise virtual legos, is mostly differentiated from the competition by, losing items, creepers blowing up your house, and bad mob AI forcing the player to plan their safety or their work collecting the mobs will be undone.
When they added group respawn they havent solved anything. People keep staggering and devs need to deliver this idea. Not to do the things that players are to manage but deliver the concept
Played 5 games last night, lost 4 but 2 of those were super close and went down to last fights.
After the two close losses I bet it was disappointing but you wanted to queue back up again more than the other losses.
I stopped playing competitive because the matchmaking is bad. I can't play quick play because the matchmaking is even worse, and I almost always play against stacks when I solo queue. That's the worst thing that can happen in online games, solo vs. groups.
Moreover, this is the game where you will never feel that you are good. Matchmaking always rigs matches so that you will be humiliated and suffer.
Great video love the pov you speak from
losing that feeling of knowing you could have played better and potentially won is the same reason league of legends fell off. i really think creating that feeling should be one of the primary goal to chase for a dev team of a competitve game
as someone who is a former LoL player i very much agree.
Even QP is not fun, cuz the game demands a lot of knowledge of the game, and people just don't understand that
An example: mercy players playing mercy, on maybe it's ambiguous, mercy right now is one of the worst supps on the game at least on PC, the problem? The whole game is based on counterpick meta, a mercy who doesn't want to switch to a supp needed in the comp of the team is a loose fo sure, now translate this to the other 2 roles, it's the same, and guess what? Losing in overwatch is not fun😅
yeah, mercy is pretty awful right now but it's cause she doesn't have the tools to help the team win. so it's a problem of the kit. she has a lot of enabling tools but not a lot of playmaking tools. i would like to see an experiment where her res was changed for an offensive tool to help make plays. cause you can't buff or nerf her kit currently in a way in which it feels fair but also she gets value.
just because rank is meaningless, doesn't mean you have to hide it from me
Watch the Spilo Dev interview. Get a coach like me. 👍 also there was this famous Super Bowl winning football coach said "winning isnt everything. Its the only thing!"
I feel like i might have seen that one before as i do like a lot of spilo's content. if anyone would be a good designer on overwatch i think he would be my first choice. for that video do you happen to have a link so i know exactly which one to watch again?
I wanna talk about knowing if my team is alive or not by the UI
In Marvel Rivals I cannot tell immediately how much of my team is alive and if I should retreat. I guess I’m not used to the “log”sheet or cpunter strike style frag notifs on the upper right, in flavor of Splatoon’s “live players” UI at the top of the screen, where I just glance up there and see we’re down 2 to 4 and I start backing up…
-----youtube comments are cooked, sorry if it got a little jumbled up there
and on the contrary a super technical HUD would bring more players in,,, this is my forecast, could be wrong
doing better than you did the last time..... well put!
12:55 "it's a lot easier to make sure people wanna queue back up"---- big mistake---- you're assuming your ideas will work ......
how the game made you feel can't be changed,,,,, overwatch is a game that designs itself,,, it's 5 superheroes vs 5 superheroes,,, just like in real life, not much you can do to make people enjoy that,,,,,,other than giving us the info dense HUD we all desire hahaha :)
give me my basic/good UI that i want and get out of my way,,,, this is the part of the argument youre not understanding
sure, let the gun change sounds when it low on ammo....i'll be looking at my HUD
5:20 youre arguing a point not made,,, give me the UI i asked for,,, there is no good reason for you to take it away from me,,,, stop trying to disuade me,,, just give me the HUD i'm asking for,,,, you don't understand
youtube hid your video from my notifications :/
god damn it, ok i think i know how to fix that. i've been experimenting with seeing what gets more traction on the videos. the gamer in me had to test stuff lol but now that you've said this i'll be sure to try and make sure you get them every time now. thank you for letting me know! i'm very new to all this.
@@arinrobinson3898 it's completely fine dw !
5:00 no one is trying to ensure you win 100% of games,,,, you win your argument by fighting ghosts, clever :) haha jk :)
youre getting to artistic with it,,, I'm not trying to have fun,,, i'm trying to play a game of overwatch,,,,,,i think this is the angle that you can't understand
I get the feeling we fundamentally think about games differently if you don't think the purpose is to have fun and learn.
@@arinrobinson3898 yeah, beacuse the purpose of playing tennis is to play tennis,,, if you're trying to clear you head or have fun,,, that's outside the realm of discussion,,,, people play tennis to drumroll pls......play tennis! lol :)
@@arinrobinson3898 if you'd like to have a long winded philisophical discussion about fun, learning, and overwatch I'd love to,,, i might learn a thing or two,,,, but it's gotta be over VC, let me know if you have the time, thx
@@rexoverwatch do you think people play tennis cause they hate it? playing tennis is describing an action they are doing but not why they are doing it.
@@arinrobinson3898 i'm in ow2 discord VC right, got 30 minutes to spare?