Not to dissuade those interested, but it should be noted by some that outplayed themselves only keeps clips for a year. May not matter in the moment, but if you play for a long time and have clips that mean something to you, make sure you save it directly on your computer instead of just on outplayed.
BRO whats the point in downloading this shit both amd and nvidia got THEIR softwares that do all of that AND u keep videos forever why should i doenload some bullshit app that cant even hold the videos?
@ziemada dude power creep is wild. I remember when orianna's ultimate was THE uncontested highest impact ultimate in the game, now i wouldnt even put it in the top 30.
@@RisottoNero-z1w dude, the number of people who try and convince me cait is still a high mobility champion with that dogshit 22s cooldown "dash" is insane.
My issue with rampant mobility is these champions dont seem to be losing anything for it, and the immobiles are gaining nothing for being immobile. They do just as much damage as immobiles, they have just as much if not more cc than immobiles. Their survivability is often just as good if not better than immobiles. Like, being immobile is THE second worst thing you can be in modern league, yet their kits dont reflect that insane weakness.
Yeah riot likes to pull out the "power budget" argument not to buff imobiles, but if Swain has the power budget of a mom and pop shop, Yone Ambessa etc have power budgets equivalent to Jeff Bezos
> my issue with rampant mobility is these champs don’t seem to be losing anything for it Correct, because they’re melee champs and melee champs kinda need mobility to exist in modern league
At first I thought Ambessa was fine like you covered in her initial release. Then…I learned. Her movement is crazy, even when I used her. Once she got on top of you unless you had something like Tristana ult or a Leblanc warp it’s hopeless. That’s without getting into her insane shielding. It’s like Sett with mobility and damage.
We need another champion who can interact with enemy dashes. It can either be 1. Has a skill that deals damage if an enemy unit moves (like Bloodseeker's ult from Dota) or 2. Skill CD reduces each time an enemy champion dashes.
And heaven forbid you have the patience and skill to read there movements and realize that a dash typically goes a fixed distance. I’ve been accused of hacking so many times because the person blindly dashes straight at me and I dump everything on the spot they dash to.😅
Man we need more grounded abilities like Poppy, Singed, or Cassiopeia. In addition, there should also be abilities that interrupts mobility like Vex too.
Grounded is kinda meh as a mechanic, it's pretty much an ultimate counter to a mechanic without any possibility to bypass it. I would rather see abilities that cancel the last dash performed (either like LB W on an opponent, or making 'em dash the fixed distance backwards), more cc being able to cancel the dash in and out itself and/or (semi)defensive items that interract with dash and movement speed boosts in some form
Anivia is my favorite example of this She is designed for area control but that role is not that important in modern league cus the enemy can just gap close to her ignoring her ult what makes this worse is that she needs to stay close to her ult while only having above average to average self peel with a pitifully low amount of hp
What do you mean? Anivia has pretty strong self peel, i mean 3 out of her 4 active abilities can be used for peeling. And even if its not that strong, her passive can be a self peel tool too in a teamfight.
@@marshallneff1631 her passive is not a self peel it's a distraction (that doesn't even last longer in a tf, anivia passive works better in 1v1 or 3v3 at best), her w is good but you can dash through it, the q is semi trash unless you cast it mid range, and If anivia casts that mid range that means she can be easily gap closed, so is an ability that is both trash and good, so if anivia casts it max range you can either dodge it with good movement or dash through it, and her r is countered by Swifties so the slow doesn't feel that potent, also the area of the ability is small so you can, ehem, dash through it
Yes, Anivia is outdated, but she's not as helpless against new characters as Ashe is for example. Yes, there are a lot of characters who can jump over a wall, but there are fewer who can jump past Anivia's ultimate. Yone can, of course, but that's a fucking chancer that shouldn't exist in the game. There was a funny game recently when Anivia single-handedly defended the base against five opponents, including tanks and Yone and Ambessa. They decided they could run the base against Anivia without Baron. No, you can't ))))
@@mantraki The reason i said her passive is not strong is because wheter the egg survives long enough depends on how well your teammates deffend it. But its actuallyy a pretty good psychological self peel tool. Cause a lot of assasins and rushdown characters wont be brave enough to engage onto you in a 5v5. And why would her p only be good at midrange? We are talking about peeling. You know you can recast her q instantly in close range too right? Also, you forget the part that her w can interrup dashes. Doesnt come up often, but its a use case too. And her ult slow combined with her q and w makes an incredibly good disengage
@andreas3904 In an ideal world your suggestion would be valid, but we are in too deep into the mobility creep. I doubt the monkeys over at Riot would change more then half of the champion pool. Especially the money making ones.
hard disagree, i hate the insane amount of mobility in the game as much as the next guy but honestly giving somebody an option and then taking it away is just very annoying for the player... taking agency away from the player is just annoying and frustratiing to deal with in general so honestly i really dislike the amount of cc in the game overall lol (agency being the control the player has over their character btw).
@@justinjakeashton Ground doesn't apply slow to your champion. If your champion is grounded or not, a Morgana's Q can still be side stepped. But I can't blame you tbh, most ground effect also apply slow so most people assume ground makes people slow
As someone who primarily enjoys playing enchanters this is my bane, along with damage creep making fights so much shorter because you just can't heal a someone being one-tapped. Then when the enchanters find a way to start dealing damage THAT is obviously the problem for Riot and they nerf it into the ground.
@@draphking Or maybe Riot should give half a shit about balancing their game and not neglecting an entire class of champions. I'm capable of playing virtually any support (and do so) but my long time main has always been Sona and right now it just feels bad. No survivability, late game scaling and incredibly item dependent, works best with a tank in the party which is increasingly rare itself, AP ratios repeatedly nerfed so even early chip damage is reduced and healing overall (for enchanters, not items) nerfed. It feels awful. Add to the mix supports like Pyke and Senna who are told 'go ahead, do damage' and get extra gold to facilitate it while not being so item reliant themselves.
@@chillchinna4164 I never had much of a problem even after Seraphines release, but yeah Sona is the second squishiest champ in the game and the squishiest doesn't count, that being Yuumi.
@ she’s rarely been ‘great’ but after the waves of nerfs around that time she always feels like the worst option I could pick. I get less criticism for playing Orianna support than I do locking in Sona.
Theoretically, the answer to mobility creep is crowd control, but the damage creep of the game also means that any significant amount of crowd control is basically insta-death
@@PlanetDiablo16967 Wdym 5 seconds ???? Thresh alone can cc you for at least 4 seconds. I've played games where I'd get cced for 12, 15, heck even 20 seconds in a single fight. 5 seconds is pretty short. (exept if you're playing as an adc in which case yeah you kinda just die before getting cced for that long)
remember: velkoz is the last champion that didnt have any mobility boost at all, that was February 27, 2014 (mobility boost meaning a dash or movement speed bost)
Riot very mucg put themselves into that corner, mobility is their only answer to skillshots while skillshots were their only answer to everything else. From fun new champion to skill expression, to counterplays to easing outpicking to damage creep. If Riot hadnt been solving everything with skillshots the mobility wouldnt be that much of a problem.
I did the math: League Of Legends has TWICE the mobility saturation that Dota 2 does: Twice the mobility Per Champion, so even more than double the total mobility. Dota solves its mobility with powerful items that provide lock down in roots, silences and stuns. League has MORE mobility and no easy counters any class can get!
I got dragged to LoL by my friends and was originally a Dota 2 player. League feels way less balanced to me and that is just plain sad. Since Dota literally has stuff like a champ with a 20 second global teleport, a character that can perma stun. Permanently invisible champ. And yet there is counter play to all of that and it feels less toxic than league.
@@TZAR_POTATO switched to dota long time ago but still playing lol time to time with friends and i totally agree. Even though dota has blink dagger which is basicly a flash every 15 ( or 12) sec its still not as frustrating as leagues mobility Just because there are ways to deal with it unlike league
Hard CC is far more cancerous than mobility. If you factor mobility in correctly to stat budgets its fine, while the only way to counter hard CC is to not be cc'd meaning there is no counter play.
Idk why they don't add grounding/knock down to existing champions like have Karma's w ground while attached so the champ has to walk out of it or have Viktor W have a ground that's instantly applied to champs in the zone, but the stun still takes the same amount of time to apply
Because this would make these champs stupid overpowered and they’d need extreme nerfs elsewhere in their kit to make room for this? Do you have any idea how awful it’d be for mobile and immobile champs alike if they couldn’t flash out from a karma that flash W’d them?
@TaconIStenen then Karma used her flash which is a 5min cooldown??? That's like saying "you know how broken it is for a Malphite/Hecram to flash + R. Fiddle flash + Q is undodgable too, take that out? Flash + ability is going to be broken because the point is that its going to be hard to dodge if not impossible, but why would we balance everything around how something combs with flash? Either way you can turn on her if she wastes her flash or if you have high movement like a Garden or Hecram you run out of it? You could also use that excuse on how broken it is for a poppy to flash on someone because they couldn't flash out of that. We just watched a video about how all these dashing champs get so much other stuff from those dash abilities, but adding knockdown/grounding to other champ's abilities would make them broken? Also those are just suggestions, there's other champs you possibly give those effects to for balance, try imagining that instead of dismissing the option all together.
@@ShadowCrossFoxflashing onto someone to stop them from dashing away is considerably stronger when you consider that Karma W is point and click and in this case would be completely non-conditional compared to Poppy W. Grounded effects are rare for a reason, they’re extremely strong because they nullify the biggest thing a mobile champ needs, their mobility. Champs aren’t just given mobility for the hell of it, they’d given mobility because they need it to fundamentally function in a game where range is the single best stat in the game to have Also, the comparison to Malphite flash+ult or Fiddle flash+Q is hilarious considering those abilities still have travel times where someone can actually react with a flash of their own, and their duration actually ends as opposed to a grounding Karma W that would ground you for the tether duration then root you afterwards Get better, mobility is not that big of a deal
@@TaconIStenen Grounding isn't broken. You act like you can't just turn on Karma and kill her or just play a champ with high movement speed, get better dude. Your complaint is literally "this counters high mobility champs that I like playing" . Don't play dash champs against those who counter them then. Would love to see a Karma Flash+w on a Darius or Garen,see how well that turns out. But here are better examples:malzahar flash+r or pantheism flash+w, try dodging that. Sorry I didn't mention them before because you lack any imagination to think of how nearly if not completely impossible it is to dodge them yourself. I'm sure you always dodge Malphite R with how easy you make it sound, nvm the tech for using flash+r is to shorten the distance to make the travel time near instant for Malphite ukt
Dw guys. Blitzcrank W still slows him so mobility isn't that high.... "We don't think our champions have overloaded kits overall" How I read this: "We don't think" "Our champions have overloaded kits overall"
Whenever Kennen is in pro play, it is incredibly hard for the Kennen to have any value if their flash is down due to their lack of mobility. Also speaking of Kennen (and other champions), remember how necessary items like Rocketbelt or Stridebreaker (when it had the dash) were for those champions. It's been considered invaluable to have as much mobility as possible unless you have enough tools around that issue which often means you just have lots of mobility already.
One of the big issues I have about dashes and mobility is that any dash a champion has adds to their potential zone of interaction. And if their zone of interaction is greater than yours, it makes it really hard to effectively fight them because they effectively outrange you at all times. But in terms of defense, it becomes nigh impossible to catch something that has the ability to dash away so easily. If you’re playing someone immobile, it’s impossible to keep them off you and impossible to close the distance without high investment
Mobily creep is a result of layzy champion desing. Insted of doing smth realy uniq, they just drop more & more of the same stats\effect on top of mobility spells and call "uniq skillexresive experience", while it is basicly chromos of the same desing\ champion gameplay loop.
Riot could just buff towers, so ppl couldnt dive you as easily and scale due to tower posing no risk to them, as they can just dive in and out. and make minions more aggro
I still remember when Yasuo came out and we were all saying "there is no reason to play Master Yi anymore". Some champions just have more of everything.
Nah it's been out of control. That's why we see so much mobility on a kit now and just say 'ok'. Same with boring damage and damage reduction mechanics such as True Damage and 'Damage reduction'. It all compounds to the same boring direction.
what do you think of this change to yone: his E working like illaoi's test of spirit whereas he leaves a body behind and the enemy can damage it to force him to return to his body forcefully and and get them out of their face
I think just remove the reapply damage with his mark and his ability would work fine. Heck, it would be a cool mirror to Yasuo's W as they have 1 utility ability that deals no damage but pose serious threat in specific situation
@@cloudynguyen6527nah the change with him being damaged at his original point is fine. I hate the champ as much as the other guy but outside of laning phase that change pretty much levels the field
ngl, mobility creep wont be as big of an issue if there were actually tools to combat mobility. enemy is cc heavy? there's cleanse, certain champion abilities like gangplank, olaf etc. quicksilver sash and tenacity can help enemy has lots of healing? ignite, grievous wounds items exist to tone them down what do you build to counter mobility? unless your name is cassiopeia, singed or poppy, the only real way to counter them is hope your CC ability hits
i really like this comment, made me think of what could be a great addition to the game, an item (most likely a tank one) that has an active that silences an enemy, we never got a silencing item if i'm not wrong.
@ThundererR64T If you want to counter mobility you could have the item apply grounded instead (which only disables movement abilities) A silence item would be incredibly powerful as silence removes all tools the champion has except moving with their movement speed and auto-attacking (which doesn't really do much for a lot of champions) It is as close to hard cc as possible without being hard cc (though less so for auto-attackers)
I haven't played League in a long time, but when i was younger i remember how crazy zeds mobility was back in the day. I mean it really felt like he was special but also that he paid for that with his power budget. Now it seems every new release that people complain about has dashes when it makes no sense. A bunch of tanks having great mobility is just... Weird
the problem is most anti-mobility spells/items like Nasus "W" and Rylais, are worse for Champs that have no mobility than for Champs that have unlimited dashes. e.g. kiting Darius with Rylais almost means instant win if u watch ur spacing, but using an anti mobility Item against Irelia/Akali/Ambessa is like a water drop on a hot stone. They have so much mobility that reducing it by 30% for 1sec is almost nothing when u can either engage or disengage with a dash. Meaning u can't get "chain-slowed".
Zilean E is also a prime example of that. Great against any juggernaut (Garen, Darius, Mundo, Cho, Etc.), Does f all against dash-heavy champions, at which point you're better off using it as its movespeed steroid.
We need to make slows affect dash and teleport ranges, or about 30× more grounding abilities. Maybe an item that damages someone everytime they dash, maybe a tank item that does it like a thornmail replacement
Comments like these make me glad the average player has no choice when it comes to game design. How fking awful yeah let me just take free damage for simply using my ability one that’s supposed to help dodge dmg on top of that? Get a grip
@@CorruptionAura Yeah and then there is vayne that will just shoot right through you no matter some stupid thornmail. Getting damaged for dashing really is a bad idea.
In most games with some form of combat, a character's strength is decided by its combat attributes: 1-Damage output 2-Mobilty 3-Resistance That's it, there aren't other relevant traits. If a character has all three of those, we can agree they're, more often than not, overpowered. If they have only one trait, they usually suck, with some exceptions. If they have two, you're good. I heard Thor (PirateSoftware) call this the golden triangle of combat design or something like that. It's common for older champions to have only one of these traits because champ design in earlier days of LoL was more one-note, not so dynamic. E.g. Annie, no mobilty, basically just damage considering her shield doesn't do much. Classes are derived by mixing these attributes: - Damage and resistance (no mobility): fighter/dps -Damage and mobility (no resistance): assasin -Mobility and resistance (no damage): tank/healer If a character does have all three attributes, it is important to not give it too much of any one thing. "Much" meaning, how often they can output a unit of measure for that attribute. Ambessa/Yone/etc can feel overpowered becasue they have too much mobility and also decent damage and resistance, although conditioned. Most players, aka low elo, we never really get used to playing the mind games that come with these conditions, so we feel like some champions don't have weakneses. Some other time, our character choice doesn't give us the tools to counter. Good design is making it as easy for the opponent to identify and work around those conditions as it is for a character to engage on them. For simplicity, it's best to stick to only two of the traits above. Skill expression comes from making the right choices, so if a character has plenty of choices, so should their oponnent, regardless of their kit. Say, if dodging isn't an option, blocking should. In League, this isn't always posible because options are built in a character's kit. Another example, Xerath. Damage, no resistance. In a very technical sense, he does have "mobility", because he can hit you without getting up from bed, do he's balanced but, when playing him, most of us don't know how to keep distance from opponents nor we keep track of all sides, which is harder and less intuitive than stepping away if things go south. That is why he feels annoying but not op, figthing him gives you plenty of time to react, whether you move out of his way or you cc him, you have plenty of options and they're more evident than they would be against other characters, and when playing him you can't just move around without thinking. Azzap describes Vel'Koz in a similar way. Dr. Mundo: He can walk up to anyone, take a beating and walk away, mobility and resistance, good so far. Problem is when he can also take half your hp bar, if not all. Another "balanced" mundo is one that can kill you while sucking up all your damage output, but he's slow, so that only happens if he reaches you, which he won't. I'll stop giving examples here.
I’ve been playing a lot of velkoz and it feels like with certain high mobility chances I need to play significantly better than them to be able to hit my skill shots compared to how they need to play against me to do my skill shots
I play Zoe and Vel'koz all the time. It is really sad that you need to be twice as good as your opponent to kill them. I litellary loose so many options like drakes or crugs just because I can't jump over a wall or any other thing. Sometimes they just counter pick and then start to roam around the map and all you can do is just ping and hope your team won't feed it :D
@@Aerilia731true it takes a lot of skill to be forced under tower the entire game, wasting mana trying to hit champions with 3 dashes, one of which they'll use to simple dodge your ability
@@Aerilia731 if your playing under tower your probably in a bad match up and with chaps that have several dashes tower diving is very easy. the champs that can do it is zed, yone, yasuo, ambessa, akali, ahri, wokong, and irelia
Mobility in old characters still massive, but look at less because of the new champs having more bullshit. Yasuo's theorical infinite dashes, riven AOE damaging dashes, kallista's dash on AA. But now, since that mobility have some weakness, it feels less powerful than ambesa, belveth or yone's mobility
My biggest problem with dash champions isn't actually the pure mobility. It's the mobility over walls. Anyone acting like for a whole lot of champions being able to selectively ignore terrain features isn't a problem is out of their mind. A few champions being able to do it is fine. Many champions being able to ignore base rules of the playing field is a disaster. Being able to go over a wall on a basic ability timer is both a strategic asset and a tactical one. When we talk about stuff like this we often talk about direct engagements. Forgetting that just being able to get from one side of the map to another faster than another champion is in itself an overpowered ability.
There's also a big difference between the nature of the mobility. For example, Briar seems to have huge mobility, but she's not annoying at all because her dashes work predictably. It's possible to play against them. If you have one thing that could ruin Briar's life, you easily throw it on preemptively and hit Briar. For example, Caitlyn puts a trap where she flies and gets a chance to win. But it doesn't work against Abmessa. She jerks in all directions, and even if you hit her with something, she'll be out of control in a second and keep jerking around like a seizure. And freakin' Yone is purely the cancer of this game. Why the hell is a super mobile character allowed to be an ADC with double crit, an Assassin who kills Mages, ADCs, and Supports in a single skill rotation, a Bruiser who chokes on autoattacks and devours tanks, and an Initiator who bursts into the crowd from behind the screen, keeping everyone in a chain СС? And all at the same time, in the same generic item build for every occasion!
I agree, imo they could fix a lost of these issues with just 2 items: 1. Galeforce back 2. Item that grounds Now every1 has some possiblity too be mobile or deny enemies mobility
I think the idea of a “defensive” stat against mobility is an interesting though. Like how frozen heart cuts enemy attack speed. Maybe if there exist a set of counter items That reduces dash/blink frequency or distance or speed that is less effective eachtime you’ve dashed/blinked recently, then it will be easier to balance
Yeah that is how you instantly kill a game lol. Dashes are fun to use, mobility is fun. It is already frustrating to be interrupted by Poppy or Cass, but I can respect it because it is a character ability. Being able to build "anti dash" makes to game less interactive and fun
1 item i propose is: Temporal restrictor After a blink or a dash (maybe just dash not blink) dash user is affected by a slow that decays in 1 sec. This item would make a dash not as a gold escape tool since you dont make distance away and would make it so that AFTER you dash ypu are easier to hit giving a more or less fixed area you are. You can still dodge skills with a dash and have it be usefull. But using a dash in neutral makes you easier to hit afterwards.
@@waluigit-poses7767Bruh fk is this logic? It's like saying building Armor to counter PhysDmg makes the game unfun. You sure having fun dashing around 10 times in 3s, for the opponent that relies solely on skillshots? Not so much isn't it?
@@waluigit-poses7767heh, meanwhile in dota one can buy root stick Rod of Atos with a upgrade to Gleipnir (also comes with AoE root now), a straight-up stun (but in melee range) Abyssal blade with passive bashes too (because you need a Skull basher to buy, passive bash item before it), a silence stick Orchid Malevolence and its upgrade Bloodthorn and finally, Scythe of Vyse aka sheepstick, an item which turns a targeted enemy into a harmless and slow pig to be slaughtered.
@@waluigit-poses7767 High mobility if fun *when every one have it* without sacrificing almost nothing or if is a skill issue rather than a character/role issue, like in Warframe (and this one is a PvE so it dosen't count too much) or Warzone-BO6, in League? *No*
Mobility has been grossly undervalued across the board in the calculations of the power budget of champions since at least Retardsuo's development. And presenting Vex as the answer to mobility creep was clear evil. They knew what they were doing and that what was needed was not a single champion to counter mobility but half a dozen items (for AP, AD, Tank, and support coverage, with a few extras in case some are understated and never bought)
Vex runs into the same issue that Brrigitte had in OW (which I believe is when that game dropped hard in balance/quality) At the time it was a very heavy dive meta and Brigitte was introduced as a survivable melee support that could brawl with divers and brute force assassins off the backline, but had to be made viable for use outside of hard countering dive and ended up being a generically good character that outright denied an entire gameplan by existing. Systemic issues need systemic changes/fixes, not hard counter characters.
what really shows the state of the game regarding mobility creep is, in this 15 min video talking about characters with dashes there weren't any clips of akali
I feel like giving a champ access to mobility should mean they lose survivability elsewhere. This would imply little to no healing from abilities, low base health regen, no shielding from abilities, cc, etc. Of course this heavily depends on the champion's own power budget and role. For a tank like Zac for example, I don't mind him having crazy engage, cc and sustain because his damage is supposed to be low, sadly that hasn't been the case every now and then but you get the point.
Riot should nerf mobility and damage, fully rework the game to be STRATEGIC Not gonna say "create tank meta and solve everything!" But rather actually look at the game and TRY to fix the issues
its not just mobility but also adding so many things to basekit , i mean look at old champions and new ones for example ; ashe : sum slow and 1 cc ( not great at close distance ) akshan : can do infinite range boomerang, infinite swing , shield , infinite invis , revive , swing cd returned on kills , ult that can be casted while moving , passive either does more damage or gives speed boost. and its becoming worse with each release at some point we will have a champ that has healing , true damage, dash execution , also can be played both ap and ad,, block , cc, invisibility .
Do NOT challenge riot. They released a brother of Yasuo (Yone), and will probably release a daughter of Ambessa (Mel). For all we know, there could be K'Sante's ex in 2025
It happens literally every day lol. The only way for the ranged champion to lose to a slow ass bruiser is to stand still or try to fight them in melee range.
@@devilkingaming4619 if you are the one running, you are not winning if you can't stand your ground you are losing terrain, you are the one being beaten. and no amount of turret will save you from any top laner with his or her ult up.
I just hate how they completely killed orbwalking and gliders, partly because everyone can just teleport right on top of you. Twitch is completely pointless and even when he ends up being better, attack speed is such a pointless stat for ADCs, why bother when as a character everything can just walk at you and kill you? Go all in on doing a billion damage a hit and screw having skilled movement, just blow people up. Real healthy.
Speaking of old mobility, I wish they’d change Tristana’s rocket jump. The number of times I get hit by stuff that shouldn’t hit me is crazy. It’s like Tristana exists at point A until the ability ends
Funfact about Bel'veth's dashes. The tail swipe returns dashes based on your proximity to the enemies when they're knocked up. So if you press W then flash into the middle of a 4 man knock up it'll restore your dashes in all four directions.
I think more dash cancels / knock down effects would be a good way to solve this. Jinx chompers and Veigar cage having a dash cancel makes them much more reliable forms of self peel compared to say a slow. Poppy W and Taliyah E are also have way more gameplay to them than grounding or silence.
stop being cowards riots, put counters in the game the game isn't going to fall apart bc a few more champs can stop dashes, or because a few games a skirmisher couldn't dash once every 3 seconds we have silences, give is more Grounds More Cassios, Taliyahs, Viegars, Poppy's, Singed's, Vex's Viktor W, Vel'koz E, Yorick W, Skarner W, Karthus W, Kog'maw E, etc they should all have ground
Having had my first time laning against Ambessa today, I can say that I definitely had that 'WTF is that champ' moment on multiple occasions. When you get THAT much mobility with zero downsides, it really messes with the power budget of a champion.
This is a sorely needed video considering that Riot doesn't think before they release new or update old champions... At least the new Viktor doesn't have a dash, but then again he didn't even get reworked, it was just a visual update.
I think the increase in mobility is also the reason there are so few artillery mages in the game. Those that do exist get played kind of rarely since the other team usually has at least one champ that can easily close in on them to, if not kill them, make sure they can't poke the rest of the team. I wish there we more abilities that interact with or directly counter mobility, like poppy's w
It got out of hand when Lee Sin was added to the game. Ever since then mobility has been insane and almost every new champ has high mobility. He was the first champion (I think) that had 2 dash abilities.
tbh one thing that i find quite interesting because of this is how flash isn't something that's always picked. Many champs simply just don't need the extra mobility granted by it anymore (camille, shaco, ambessa (imo)) while others would like it but their kit revolves so much around running that ghost is just a better option with higher uptime (olaf, singed, heca).
Yone's conceptual passive was going to be "he can dash towards any enemy champion that has recently used a dash or blink (you're forced to build movespeed and position better*)"
Having an Item option that adds Groudning effect on your AOE spells like Anivia R, Morganna W could be good counter opportunity against all the dashes nowadays
This is why I eventually gave up on nearly all of my favorite champions to play. You can walk at them menacingly but if they beat you they just sit at your max range and kite, if they lose to you, they just leave. There’s no winning as a show champ anymore. Even if you win lane you’ll run into this same exact problem with the rest of the enemy team. And pray to god the enemy jungler doesn’t notice this and just sit under your tower….
An ability idea for an anti dash champion that could be cool is kind of like old talon e with the blink and silence. Only instead of silencing you and being a blink all the time it has a base form that becomes a blink and ground behind an enemy unit that just recently dashed.
I always think back to how Riven felt like she was ahead of her time. A Dash and small lunges plus a short hop that could bypass short terrain walls if you were precise enough? Back in the day those almost felt downright unfair. Super fun to play once you got the hang of it. A small precursor of what was to come. Nowadays I doubt she's even in the discussion about mobility.
I would love to see more conditioned dashes, ex. dash is only accessible if you land a tough skillshot first. Vex/Briar R feel a lil overtuned in some cases, but they are ULTIMATE spells. I'm more imagining a rebalance to Sylas E where his second cast only becomes accessible if he uses something else in his kit, ex. landing Q explosion on a champion empowers his next E to have two parts. Also interesting note for the nilah and samira dashes being "opposite types", nilah E is also a targeted dash, just a different set of targets. Nilah having a free target dash was probably an iteration of her kit in alpha, but thankfully it's no longer available
i was learning j4 recently and his ult felt so useless. only old mages and adc were able to stay within the cage almost every common champion can escape it.
Genuinely feels like they put Vex in the game as "Here, see? We made a yordle to counter mobility creep." and then used that as an excuse to go balls-to-the-wall with mobility for every character since. :/
Meanwhile, Paladins back during its beta did an overhaul of Champion Legendaries (essentially that game's version of Keystone Masteries mixed with skill trees) because champions were becoming too mobile with certain loadouts and some like Androxus were becoming too dominant as a result.
In combat mobility, out of combat mobility, MS towards enemies, MS away from enemies, If you break up mobility into more specific scenarios, you can limit its agency. So give an assassin mobility towards enemies but not give them move speed to run away. Gives them engage window, but still makes them vulnerable to counter play.
Ksante has way more than 2(3) dashes when you factor in that his mobility spells reset and become faster in his ult form, aswell as e coming off cooldown, in a skirmish its not unheard of ksante dashing 6 times.
Absolutely agree. I’m an OTP Neeko, so I have more passive mobility than most other champs, but it genuinely has gotten impossible to play against hyper mobile champs as they can easily dodge out of my R given I don’t have flash, or they can easily catch up if I use it for peel. My main issue with mobility is that it defeats the entire premise of some champs. Ie tanks and brawlers should be the most immobile characters in the game. Strong yet tanky; but have difficulty staying on top of a target. The issue is that isn’t even remotely accurate to what we have in game. Tanks and brawlers tend to be some of the most mobile champs (mundo, ksante, voli, Zac, Rell, Shen, Galio) yet all can easily stay on top of you without that mobility in the first place. It makes it so that there is 0 counterplay to fight these champs when they can just walk on you regardless of CC, you can’t kill them, and they kill you insanely fast (tanks dealing damage is an entirely different form of BS rn) It’s not very fun when I get out chased by a tank as a mage running symbiotics, celerity, relentless, with CC and speed buffs. Fights like Yone, Shaco, Yasuo, and Ksante are some of the most absolute cancer matchups in the game on the basis that I have no counterplay to get them off of me, cause they have dashes and CC, more than what any other character can really fight against unless they are tanky.
My problem with mobility is that many of the characters I enjoy playing _don't have mobility,_ so I end up just kind of losing to anybody who does--because all the good positioning in the world can't help you if you can't even stand on the same screen as your lane opponent. If I play Swain into Akali or Kat, my options are "don't farm" or "get dived constantly" (and it _REALLY_ doesn't help that Swain isn't allowed to be tanky _or_ have damage, because that would be OP--as opposed to Katarina, who has damage, more health than me, _and_ tons of mobility). If every character in League played like Akali it would be fine; I've played Akali ditto 1v1s as a practice method, and it's actually really fun...but most characters _don't_ play like Akali. And that sucks, because I actually really like the slower pace of fights with characters like Swain, Malzahar, or Xerath. I _like_ playing around the resource management of the mana bar, carefully choosing when and how to commit to fights. But that's simply incompatible with characters who have half a dozen dashes. For a while I stopped taking flash because there was no point--burning a multi-minute cooldown only to get chased down anyway by someone who has three flashes in their kit was just frustrating.
I want to say that the champion's that don't have a dash have some kind of utility or access to slow down opponents with ease, It's pretty common for champs to have some form of CC than dashes.
League will never be balanced in a champion vs champion sense but you always need to have clear counterplay even if it's the most minor example. Dodging an important ability is counterplay enough or baiting out a single ability of a stat check champion. These things used to matter so much but are now completely irrelevant due to low cooldowns and over complicated damage numbers to a point where you feel like there is less counterplay today than it was 10 years ago when everything was so simple and point and click based.
I don't mind gapclosing abilities that place a champ in danger. Ambessa quite literally just shuts down some spells where it becomes impossible to land certain abilities because she nearly always has a dash off cooldown. I had similar complaints about Qiyana on release, but ambussy takes it to a new level.
I'm very torn on this (The mobility specifically. Fuck making everyone ranged). It would be fucking awesome, but at the same time the entire game, on a **CORE** fundamental level, would need to be COMPLETELY rebalanced. The few stat checkers we still have would have to get nerfed into the ground, certain abilities of this "Low CD, universal mobility" thing would become extremely redundant thus multiple champs would need at least 1 of their abilities completely replaced, & need we mention Anti-Mobility Champs (Singed, Cassio, Poppy, etc) needing to be asked "How DO we nerf you?"
What if we had items in the shop with effects that trigger if an enemy dashes within a certain radius from you? Could be passive effects or even an active effect that could be manually triggered
August actually talked about this recently, which you can see in a video on HeWhoQuacks channel. YT will probably cook the link, so I'll throw it in a comment replying in case, but it's called An Increasingly Mobile LoL.
I played Caitlyn. I use a dash away from Ambessa, also used blink, but she catch up with me without ult anyways, so what the point? Oh, and also she killed me with 4 attacks and i deleted like 30% of her HP bar, but we had same item count, like 2.5 items.
As someone who played the mobile clone(ML) its pretty popular in SEA. I just think about how ambessas kit is just ruby Has 2 ccs deals decent dmg heals a lot and can dash and gain mr and armor every skill
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Nocturne's ultimate used to be considered the craziest mobility tool ever. Nowadays it's mostly used as map control.
sort of funny to see champions that were once considered "mobile" in the past today, like wukong, xin zhao, jax, cait, talon.
yeha but it used to be global
@@iamthemelon5683 not exactly, it just had a ton more range than now
@ziemada dude power creep is wild. I remember when orianna's ultimate was THE uncontested highest impact ultimate in the game, now i wouldnt even put it in the top 30.
@@RisottoNero-z1w dude, the number of people who try and convince me cait is still a high mobility champion with that dogshit 22s cooldown "dash" is insane.
It really says a lot when Hwei, a champ that can do it all but dash, is the most balanced of the new releases
In dire need of commas. But I agree with the statement
@@АнненковАртемийcalm it down in dire need of a job
He has a massive skill ceiling and kinda difficult to pick up.. alot to manage
And even hwei can speed up entire team… give velkoz more movement
Now hweis we should just be “hwei dashes forward into his pool of water and becomes invisible :D
How dare my fyp hide this from me for 6 seconds
My issue with rampant mobility is these champions dont seem to be losing anything for it, and the immobiles are gaining nothing for being immobile.
They do just as much damage as immobiles, they have just as much if not more cc than immobiles. Their survivability is often just as good if not better than immobiles.
Like, being immobile is THE second worst thing you can be in modern league, yet their kits dont reflect that insane weakness.
Yeah riot likes to pull out the "power budget" argument not to buff imobiles, but if Swain has the power budget of a mom and pop shop, Yone Ambessa etc have power budgets equivalent to Jeff Bezos
Imagine you at least try to tank their attacks but they build Liandras
Hmm what would you consider to be the worst thing you can be?
> my issue with rampant mobility is these champs don’t seem to be losing anything for it
Correct, because they’re melee champs and melee champs kinda need mobility to exist in modern league
@@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs the worst thing you can be in this game is squishy, followed by immobile, followed by short range.
At first I thought Ambessa was fine like you covered in her initial release. Then…I learned. Her movement is crazy, even when I used her. Once she got on top of you unless you had something like Tristana ult or a Leblanc warp it’s hopeless.
That’s without getting into her insane shielding. It’s like Sett with mobility and damage.
is Ambessa on par with K'sante's, worse or more OP? in your opinion
git gud
@@abogmus8904 not even close to release ksante, worse than him in his current form.
@@ASMRDevourer She’s worse than release ksante
Me laughing in Cassiopeia when they get close and can't dash anymore. Since Cassio out dps them hard, they die 😂
We need another champion who can interact with enemy dashes.
It can either be
1. Has a skill that deals damage if an enemy unit moves (like Bloodseeker's ult from Dota)
or
2. Skill CD reduces each time an enemy champion dashes.
We already have Poppy and Vex kinda being anti-dash champions
Not enough imo
Taliyah e stuns dashing enemies
No we need an anti-dash item (or several), so everyone can deal with dashes
I think more grounding abilitys would be cool like miasma idk would be a good counter
Vex being the dasher counter has a counterpick with alot of dash saying alot of thing about current mobility issue
Xerath gets nerfed every patch without a single decrease of his base numbers or ratios.
And heaven forbid you have the patience and skill to read there movements and realize that a dash typically goes a fixed distance. I’ve been accused of hacking so many times because the person blindly dashes straight at me and I dump everything on the spot they dash to.😅
As a Vel’Koz main, I feel your pain
this is basically every immobile mage
@@RisottoNero-z1w Syndra will still erase your ass if you dash towards her.
@@justinjakeashtonbecause syndra stun is still not nerfed since release somehow. That ‘skillshot’ xD
Man we need more grounded abilities like Poppy, Singed, or Cassiopeia. In addition, there should also be abilities that interrupts mobility like Vex too.
Grounded is kinda meh as a mechanic, it's pretty much an ultimate counter to a mechanic without any possibility to bypass it.
I would rather see abilities that cancel the last dash performed (either like LB W on an opponent, or making 'em dash the fixed distance backwards), more cc being able to cancel the dash in and out itself and/or (semi)defensive items that interract with dash and movement speed boosts in some form
@@LDDim but you still have to aim the ability that applies grounded, if you miss then it's tough shit
Anivia is my favorite example of this
She is designed for area control but that role is not that important in modern league cus the enemy can just gap close to her ignoring her ult what makes this worse is that she needs to stay close to her ult while only having above average to average self peel with a pitifully low amount of hp
What do you mean? Anivia has pretty strong self peel, i mean 3 out of her 4 active abilities can be used for peeling. And even if its not that strong, her passive can be a self peel tool too in a teamfight.
I literally play hers as a battle mage now and it works
@@marshallneff1631 her passive is not a self peel it's a distraction (that doesn't even last longer in a tf, anivia passive works better in 1v1 or 3v3 at best), her w is good but you can dash through it, the q is semi trash unless you cast it mid range, and If anivia casts that mid range that means she can be easily gap closed, so is an ability that is both trash and good, so if anivia casts it max range you can either dodge it with good movement or dash through it, and her r is countered by Swifties so the slow doesn't feel that potent, also the area of the ability is small so you can, ehem, dash through it
Yes, Anivia is outdated, but she's not as helpless against new characters as Ashe is for example. Yes, there are a lot of characters who can jump over a wall, but there are fewer who can jump past Anivia's ultimate. Yone can, of course, but that's a fucking chancer that shouldn't exist in the game.
There was a funny game recently when Anivia single-handedly defended the base against five opponents, including tanks and Yone and Ambessa. They decided they could run the base against Anivia without Baron. No, you can't ))))
@@mantraki The reason i said her passive is not strong is because wheter the egg survives long enough depends on how well your teammates deffend it. But its actuallyy a pretty good psychological self peel tool. Cause a lot of assasins and rushdown characters wont be brave enough to engage onto you in a 5v5.
And why would her p only be good at midrange? We are talking about peeling. You know you can recast her q instantly in close range too right? Also, you forget the part that her w can interrup dashes. Doesnt come up often, but its a use case too. And her ult slow combined with her q and w makes an incredibly good disengage
What we need is more anti mobility abilities/items. More Poppy W please.
Or just not insane mobility champs in the first place.
@andreas3904 In an ideal world your suggestion would be valid, but we are in too deep into the mobility creep. I doubt the monkeys over at Riot would change more then half of the champion pool. Especially the money making ones.
Mordekaiser when they buff crystal Sceptre
Let there be counterplay, Cassio's W, Poppy W, Taliyahs antidash stun, hell give us items@andreas3904
hard disagree, i hate the insane amount of mobility in the game as much as the next guy but honestly giving somebody an option and then taking it away is just very annoying for the player...
taking agency away from the player is just annoying and frustratiing to deal with in general so honestly i really dislike the amount of cc in the game overall lol (agency being the control the player has over their character btw).
At this point they could make a summoner spell that just grounds an enemy
I would love that. Way more fun than ignite.
Add this to exhaust, no dashing or binking apart from flash when exhausted
Congratulations. Now Morgana Q never misses.
@@justinjakeashton Ground doesn't apply slow to your champion. If your champion is grounded or not, a Morgana's Q can still be side stepped. But I can't blame you tbh, most ground effect also apply slow so most people assume ground makes people slow
As someone who primarily enjoys playing enchanters this is my bane, along with damage creep making fights so much shorter because you just can't heal a someone being one-tapped. Then when the enchanters find a way to start dealing damage THAT is obviously the problem for Riot and they nerf it into the ground.
"enjoys playing enchanters"
You're on the other side of the problem coin. Play an mmo
@@draphking Or maybe Riot should give half a shit about balancing their game and not neglecting an entire class of champions. I'm capable of playing virtually any support (and do so) but my long time main has always been Sona and right now it just feels bad.
No survivability, late game scaling and incredibly item dependent, works best with a tank in the party which is increasingly rare itself, AP ratios repeatedly nerfed so even early chip damage is reduced and healing overall (for enchanters, not items) nerfed. It feels awful.
Add to the mix supports like Pyke and Senna who are told 'go ahead, do damage' and get extra gold to facilitate it while not being so item reliant themselves.
@@StonedDragonssona never recovered being hobbled just before Seraphine’s release.
@@chillchinna4164 I never had much of a problem even after Seraphines release, but yeah Sona is the second squishiest champ in the game and the squishiest doesn't count, that being Yuumi.
@ she’s rarely been ‘great’ but after the waves of nerfs around that time she always feels like the worst option I could pick. I get less criticism for playing Orianna support than I do locking in Sona.
Theoretically, the answer to mobility creep is crowd control, but the damage creep of the game also means that any significant amount of crowd control is basically insta-death
Also cc creep might be even worse than mobility creep. (And that comes from someone who mains Thresh.)
@Bark_743 I would rather fight a champion with infinite dashes than be unable to do anything in a team fight for 5 seconds.
@@PlanetDiablo16967 Wdym 5 seconds ???? Thresh alone can cc you for at least 4 seconds. I've played games where I'd get cced for 12, 15, heck even 20 seconds in a single fight. 5 seconds is pretty short. (exept if you're playing as an adc in which case yeah you kinda just die before getting cced for that long)
crowd control is the counter to everything though, that's such a bad answer
damage is way lower than it used to be though...
13:18 Its kinda insane how we have gotten to a point where renekton, a double dash andy, is in the "lacks mobility" category.
remember: velkoz is the last champion that didnt have any mobility boost at all, that was February 27, 2014
(mobility boost meaning a dash or movement speed bost)
wasnt yassuo the next release?
@vorkarb2825 i think so
@@vorkarb2825and so it went uphill for mobility from there on out
Does aphelios have a mobility boost?
@leonardoneves6232 yes and very minor one....Severum/Red's Q
Riot very mucg put themselves into that corner, mobility is their only answer to skillshots while skillshots were their only answer to everything else. From fun new champion to skill expression, to counterplays to easing outpicking to damage creep. If Riot hadnt been solving everything with skillshots the mobility wouldnt be that much of a problem.
I did the math: League Of Legends has TWICE the mobility saturation that Dota 2 does: Twice the mobility Per Champion, so even more than double the total mobility.
Dota solves its mobility with powerful items that provide lock down in roots, silences and stuns. League has MORE mobility and no easy counters any class can get!
I got dragged to LoL by my friends and was originally a Dota 2 player. League feels way less balanced to me and that is just plain sad. Since Dota literally has stuff like a champ with a 20 second global teleport, a character that can perma stun. Permanently invisible champ. And yet there is counter play to all of that and it feels less toxic than league.
@@Sir_L.Wallace Agreed. Offering counterplay keeps dota far more balanced. Everything is strong, and everything strong has solutions.
@@TZAR_POTATO Dota 2 is the moba version of Syndrome’s “If everyone is super no one will be.”
@@TZAR_POTATO switched to dota long time ago but still playing lol time to time with friends and i totally agree. Even though dota has blink dagger which is basicly a flash every 15 ( or 12) sec its still not as frustrating as leagues mobility Just because there are ways to deal with it unlike league
Hard CC is far more cancerous than mobility.
If you factor mobility in correctly to stat budgets its fine, while the only way to counter hard CC is to not be cc'd meaning there is no counter play.
Mobility has been out of control for ages, arguably since before the durability update. The gap between older and more modern champs is astronomical.
Aatrox CC's himself everytime he presses Q.
Idk why they don't add grounding/knock down to existing champions like have Karma's w ground while attached so the champ has to walk out of it or have Viktor W have a ground that's instantly applied to champs in the zone, but the stun still takes the same amount of time to apply
Adding Grounding to Viktor’s empowered W would make much better sense than the current 1 second slow
Because this would make these champs stupid overpowered and they’d need extreme nerfs elsewhere in their kit to make room for this? Do you have any idea how awful it’d be for mobile and immobile champs alike if they couldn’t flash out from a karma that flash W’d them?
@TaconIStenen then Karma used her flash which is a 5min cooldown??? That's like saying "you know how broken it is for a Malphite/Hecram to flash + R. Fiddle flash + Q is undodgable too, take that out? Flash + ability is going to be broken because the point is that its going to be hard to dodge if not impossible, but why would we balance everything around how something combs with flash? Either way you can turn on her if she wastes her flash or if you have high movement like a Garden or Hecram you run out of it? You could also use that excuse on how broken it is for a poppy to flash on someone because they couldn't flash out of that. We just watched a video about how all these dashing champs get so much other stuff from those dash abilities, but adding knockdown/grounding to other champ's abilities would make them broken? Also those are just suggestions, there's other champs you possibly give those effects to for balance, try imagining that instead of dismissing the option all together.
@@ShadowCrossFoxflashing onto someone to stop them from dashing away is considerably stronger when you consider that Karma W is point and click and in this case would be completely non-conditional compared to Poppy W.
Grounded effects are rare for a reason, they’re extremely strong because they nullify the biggest thing a mobile champ needs, their mobility. Champs aren’t just given mobility for the hell of it, they’d given mobility because they need it to fundamentally function in a game where range is the single best stat in the game to have
Also, the comparison to Malphite flash+ult or Fiddle flash+Q is hilarious considering those abilities still have travel times where someone can actually react with a flash of their own, and their duration actually ends as opposed to a grounding Karma W that would ground you for the tether duration then root you afterwards
Get better, mobility is not that big of a deal
@@TaconIStenen Grounding isn't broken. You act like you can't just turn on Karma and kill her or just play a champ with high movement speed, get better dude. Your complaint is literally "this counters high mobility champs that I like playing" . Don't play dash champs against those who counter them then. Would love to see a Karma Flash+w on a Darius or Garen,see how well that turns out. But here are better examples:malzahar flash+r or pantheism flash+w, try dodging that. Sorry I didn't mention them before because you lack any imagination to think of how nearly if not completely impossible it is to dodge them yourself. I'm sure you always dodge Malphite R with how easy you make it sound, nvm the tech for using flash+r is to shorten the distance to make the travel time near instant for Malphite ukt
Dw guys. Blitzcrank W still slows him so mobility isn't that high....
"We don't think our champions have overloaded kits overall"
How I read this:
"We don't think"
"Our champions have overloaded kits overall"
Whenever Kennen is in pro play, it is incredibly hard for the Kennen to have any value if their flash is down due to their lack of mobility. Also speaking of Kennen (and other champions), remember how necessary items like Rocketbelt or Stridebreaker (when it had the dash) were for those champions. It's been considered invaluable to have as much mobility as possible unless you have enough tools around that issue which often means you just have lots of mobility already.
One of the big issues I have about dashes and mobility is that any dash a champion has adds to their potential zone of interaction. And if their zone of interaction is greater than yours, it makes it really hard to effectively fight them because they effectively outrange you at all times. But in terms of defense, it becomes nigh impossible to catch something that has the ability to dash away so easily. If you’re playing someone immobile, it’s impossible to keep them off you and impossible to close the distance without high investment
Mobily creep is a result of layzy champion desing. Insted of doing smth realy uniq, they just drop more & more of the same stats\effect on top of mobility spells and call "uniq skillexresive experience", while it is basicly chromos of the same desing\ champion gameplay loop.
Юрец, ну ты перечитай че написал, нереально много грамматических ошибок
Riot could just buff towers, so ppl couldnt dive you as easily and scale due to tower posing no risk to them, as they can just dive in and out. and make minions more aggro
and also nerf scalers base stats so they cannot hide under turret 24/7
also make towers do split damage so that armor isn't the end all be all for turrets
What am i reading, towers do insane dmg to everyone except tanks why the fk would we buff them ???
@@alextrust4784 because they're weak as fuck
I still remember when Yasuo came out and we were all saying "there is no reason to play Master Yi anymore". Some champions just have more of everything.
Nah it's been out of control. That's why we see so much mobility on a kit now and just say 'ok'. Same with boring damage and damage reduction mechanics such as True Damage and 'Damage reduction'. It all compounds to the same boring direction.
what do you think of this change to yone:
his E working like illaoi's test of spirit whereas he leaves a body behind and the enemy can damage it to force him to return to his body forcefully and and get them out of their face
I think just remove the reapply damage with his mark and his ability would work fine. Heck, it would be a cool mirror to Yasuo's W as they have 1 utility ability that deals no damage but pose serious threat in specific situation
@@cloudynguyen6527nah the change with him being damaged at his original point is fine. I hate the champ as much as the other guy but outside of laning phase that change pretty much levels the field
ngl, mobility creep wont be as big of an issue if there were actually tools to combat mobility.
enemy is cc heavy? there's cleanse, certain champion abilities like gangplank, olaf etc. quicksilver sash and tenacity can help
enemy has lots of healing? ignite, grievous wounds items exist to tone them down
what do you build to counter mobility? unless your name is cassiopeia, singed or poppy, the only real way to counter them is hope your CC ability hits
Silence, but there isnt much silence on lol
lol they got rid of half the tenacity in the game
i really like this comment, made me think of what could be a great addition to the game, an item (most likely a tank one) that has an active that silences an enemy, we never got a silencing item if i'm not wrong.
@ThundererR64T If you want to counter mobility you could have the item apply grounded instead (which only disables movement abilities)
A silence item would be incredibly powerful as silence removes all tools the champion has except moving with their movement speed and auto-attacking (which doesn't really do much for a lot of champions)
It is as close to hard cc as possible without being hard cc (though less so for auto-attackers)
does aurora ult disable mobility abilities? if it doesn't it's such a missed opportunity...
I haven't played League in a long time, but when i was younger i remember how crazy zeds mobility was back in the day. I mean it really felt like he was special but also that he paid for that with his power budget. Now it seems every new release that people complain about has dashes when it makes no sense. A bunch of tanks having great mobility is just... Weird
the problem is most anti-mobility spells/items like Nasus "W" and Rylais, are worse for Champs that have no mobility than for Champs that have unlimited dashes. e.g. kiting Darius with Rylais almost means instant win if u watch ur spacing, but using an anti mobility Item against Irelia/Akali/Ambessa is like a water drop on a hot stone. They have so much mobility that reducing it by 30% for 1sec is almost nothing when u can either engage or disengage with a dash. Meaning u can't get "chain-slowed".
Zilean E is also a prime example of that. Great against any juggernaut (Garen, Darius, Mundo, Cho, Etc.), Does f all against dash-heavy champions, at which point you're better off using it as its movespeed steroid.
We need to make slows affect dash and teleport ranges, or about 30× more grounding abilities. Maybe an item that damages someone everytime they dash, maybe a tank item that does it like a thornmail replacement
Comments like these make me glad the average player has no choice when it comes to game design. How fking awful yeah let me just take free damage for simply using my ability one that’s supposed to help dodge dmg on top of that? Get a grip
@NimaLema adcs take damage every time they attack thornmail, remove thornmail!
@@CorruptionAura Yeah and then there is vayne that will just shoot right through you no matter some stupid thornmail.
Getting damaged for dashing really is a bad idea.
@@CorruptionAura mate your idea is just garbage okay? Lmao
In most games with some form of combat, a character's strength is decided by its combat attributes:
1-Damage output
2-Mobilty
3-Resistance
That's it, there aren't other relevant traits. If a character has all three of those, we can agree they're, more often than not, overpowered. If they have only one trait, they usually suck, with some exceptions.
If they have two, you're good.
I heard Thor (PirateSoftware) call this the golden triangle of combat design or something like that.
It's common for older champions to have only one of these traits because champ design in earlier days of LoL was more one-note, not so dynamic. E.g. Annie, no mobilty, basically just damage considering her shield doesn't do much.
Classes are derived by mixing these attributes:
- Damage and resistance (no mobility): fighter/dps
-Damage and mobility (no resistance): assasin
-Mobility and resistance (no damage): tank/healer
If a character does have all three attributes, it is important to not give it too much of any one thing. "Much" meaning, how often they can output a unit of measure for that attribute.
Ambessa/Yone/etc can feel overpowered becasue they have too much mobility and also decent damage and resistance, although conditioned. Most players, aka low elo, we never really get used to playing the mind games that come with these conditions, so we feel like some champions don't have weakneses. Some other time, our character choice doesn't give us the tools to counter.
Good design is making it as easy for the opponent to identify and work around those conditions as it is for a character to engage on them.
For simplicity, it's best to stick to only two of the traits above.
Skill expression comes from making the right choices, so if a character has plenty of choices, so should their oponnent, regardless of their kit. Say, if dodging isn't an option, blocking should. In League, this isn't always posible because options are built in a character's kit.
Another example, Xerath. Damage, no resistance. In a very technical sense, he does have "mobility", because he can hit you without getting up from bed, do he's balanced but, when playing him, most of us don't know how to keep distance from opponents nor we keep track of all sides, which is harder and less intuitive than stepping away if things go south. That is why he feels annoying but not op, figthing him gives you plenty of time to react, whether you move out of his way or you cc him, you have plenty of options and they're more evident than they would be against other characters, and when playing him you can't just move around without thinking.
Azzap describes Vel'Koz in a similar way.
Dr. Mundo: He can walk up to anyone, take a beating and walk away, mobility and resistance, good so far. Problem is when he can also take half your hp bar, if not all. Another "balanced" mundo is one that can kill you while sucking up all your damage output, but he's slow, so that only happens if he reaches you, which he won't.
I'll stop giving examples here.
I’ve been playing a lot of velkoz and it feels like with certain high mobility chances I need to play significantly better than them to be able to hit my skill shots compared to how they need to play against me to do my skill shots
Whats more skill in hiding under turret and poking them?
He used to be such a good pick but nowdays you just throw e and ult and they all dash away
I play Zoe and Vel'koz all the time. It is really sad that you need to be twice as good as your opponent to kill them. I litellary loose so many options like drakes or crugs just because I can't jump over a wall or any other thing.
Sometimes they just counter pick and then start to roam around the map and all you can do is just ping and hope your team won't feed it :D
@@Aerilia731true it takes a lot of skill to be forced under tower the entire game, wasting mana trying to hit champions with 3 dashes, one of which they'll use to simple dodge your ability
@@Aerilia731 if your playing under tower your probably in a bad match up and with chaps that have several dashes tower diving is very easy. the champs that can do it is zed, yone, yasuo, ambessa, akali, ahri, wokong, and irelia
Mobility in old characters still massive, but look at less because of the new champs having more bullshit.
Yasuo's theorical infinite dashes, riven AOE damaging dashes, kallista's dash on AA. But now, since that mobility have some weakness, it feels less powerful than ambesa, belveth or yone's mobility
i'd say yasuo dash IS OP just yasuo is really bad beside his windwall
@vorexin6201 a 0.5s cooldown dash IS OP. What keeps it balanced is the fact it have a long CD on each target
My biggest problem with dash champions isn't actually the pure mobility. It's the mobility over walls. Anyone acting like for a whole lot of champions being able to selectively ignore terrain features isn't a problem is out of their mind. A few champions being able to do it is fine. Many champions being able to ignore base rules of the playing field is a disaster. Being able to go over a wall on a basic ability timer is both a strategic asset and a tactical one. When we talk about stuff like this we often talk about direct engagements. Forgetting that just being able to get from one side of the map to another faster than another champion is in itself an overpowered ability.
There's also a big difference between the nature of the mobility. For example, Briar seems to have huge mobility, but she's not annoying at all because her dashes work predictably. It's possible to play against them. If you have one thing that could ruin Briar's life, you easily throw it on preemptively and hit Briar. For example, Caitlyn puts a trap where she flies and gets a chance to win.
But it doesn't work against Abmessa. She jerks in all directions, and even if you hit her with something, she'll be out of control in a second and keep jerking around like a seizure.
And freakin' Yone is purely the cancer of this game.
Why the hell is a super mobile character allowed to be an ADC with double crit, an Assassin who kills Mages, ADCs, and Supports in a single skill rotation, a Bruiser who chokes on autoattacks and devours tanks, and an Initiator who bursts into the crowd from behind the screen, keeping everyone in a chain СС? And all at the same time, in the same generic item build for every occasion!
I agree, imo they could fix a lost of these issues with just 2 items:
1. Galeforce back
2. Item that grounds
Now every1 has some possiblity too be mobile or deny enemies mobility
I think the idea of a “defensive” stat against mobility is an interesting though. Like how frozen heart cuts enemy attack speed. Maybe if there exist a set of counter items That reduces dash/blink frequency or distance or speed that is less effective eachtime you’ve dashed/blinked recently, then it will be easier to balance
Yeah that is how you instantly kill a game lol. Dashes are fun to use, mobility is fun. It is already frustrating to be interrupted by Poppy or Cass, but I can respect it because it is a character ability. Being able to build "anti dash" makes to game less interactive and fun
1 item i propose is:
Temporal restrictor After a blink or a dash (maybe just dash not blink) dash user is affected by a slow that decays in 1 sec.
This item would make a dash not as a gold escape tool since you dont make distance away and would make it so that AFTER you dash ypu are easier to hit giving a more or less fixed area you are. You can still dodge skills with a dash and have it be usefull. But using a dash in neutral makes you easier to hit afterwards.
@@waluigit-poses7767Bruh fk is this logic? It's like saying building Armor to counter PhysDmg makes the game unfun. You sure having fun dashing around 10 times in 3s, for the opponent that relies solely on skillshots? Not so much isn't it?
@@waluigit-poses7767heh, meanwhile in dota one can buy root stick Rod of Atos with a upgrade to Gleipnir (also comes with AoE root now), a straight-up stun (but in melee range) Abyssal blade with passive bashes too (because you need a Skull basher to buy, passive bash item before it), a silence stick Orchid Malevolence and its upgrade Bloodthorn and finally, Scythe of Vyse aka sheepstick, an item which turns a targeted enemy into a harmless and slow pig to be slaughtered.
@@waluigit-poses7767 High mobility if fun *when every one have it* without sacrificing almost nothing or if is a skill issue rather than a character/role issue, like in Warframe (and this one is a PvE so it dosen't count too much) or Warzone-BO6, in League? *No*
Mobility has been grossly undervalued across the board in the calculations of the power budget of champions since at least Retardsuo's development.
And presenting Vex as the answer to mobility creep was clear evil. They knew what they were doing and that what was needed was not a single champion to counter mobility but half a dozen items (for AP, AD, Tank, and support coverage, with a few extras in case some are understated and never bought)
this game was never the same after yasuo.
Vex runs into the same issue that Brrigitte had in OW (which I believe is when that game dropped hard in balance/quality)
At the time it was a very heavy dive meta and Brigitte was introduced as a survivable melee support that could brawl with divers and brute force assassins off the backline, but had to be made viable for use outside of hard countering dive and ended up being a generically good character that outright denied an entire gameplan by existing. Systemic issues need systemic changes/fixes, not hard counter characters.
"Retardsuo" im assuming you think Yasuo is broken, you've been stuck bronze since beta of the game haven't you 😭😭
@@alextrust4784 I'm saying champion design quality took a nosedive, not that he is competitively strong.
Learn to read.
@@RisottoNero-z1w not talking to you, reread my message
what really shows the state of the game regarding mobility creep is, in this 15 min video talking about characters with dashes there weren't any clips of akali
I feel like giving a champ access to mobility should mean they lose survivability elsewhere.
This would imply little to no healing from abilities, low base health regen, no shielding from abilities, cc, etc.
Of course this heavily depends on the champion's own power budget and role. For a tank like Zac for example, I don't mind him having crazy engage, cc and sustain because his damage is supposed to be low, sadly that hasn't been the case every now and then but you get the point.
I love when my zeri goes through the wall then dies and flames me for not being able to randomly teleport to her as Lulu :)
Riot should nerf mobility and damage, fully rework the game to be STRATEGIC
Not gonna say "create tank meta and solve everything!" But rather actually look at the game and TRY to fix the issues
am really starting to think they should make a league of legends 2 at this point
@HunterOmbrégal is not even funny how desperate League 2 is needed
Agree, but it's also not going to happen. Super high damage and super high mobility is like drugs and they're addicted.
its not just mobility but also adding so many things to basekit , i mean look at old champions and new ones for example ;
ashe : sum slow and 1 cc ( not great at close distance )
akshan : can do infinite range boomerang, infinite swing , shield , infinite invis , revive , swing cd returned on kills , ult that can be casted while moving , passive either does more damage or gives speed boost.
and its becoming worse with each release at some point we will have a champ that has healing , true damage, dash execution , also can be played both ap and ad,, block , cc, invisibility .
Mobility creep has been ended by ambessa, you literally cannot have more dashes on a champ
Do NOT challenge riot. They released a brother of Yasuo (Yone), and will probably release a daughter of Ambessa (Mel). For all we know, there could be K'Sante's ex in 2025
to add further to this; proliferation of "micro buffs" after abilities go off; many of them being move speed
Yone lives in Vars' mind rent-free. He even made it into the thumbnail
Meanwhile blitzcrank has a skill that debuffs his own movement.
Then there's Blitzcrank that slows himself
and then there is blitzcrank that have slow on his W
a "ranged squishy" DOES NOT beats a "stat-check bruiser" that is not a thing and it will never be.
It happens literally every day lol. The only way for the ranged champion to lose to a slow ass bruiser is to stand still or try to fight them in melee range.
Watch mundos get run down by ashe will never not be a depressing site
@@devilkingaming4619 if you are the one running, you are not winning if you can't stand your ground you are losing terrain, you are the one being beaten. and no amount of turret will save you from any top laner with his or her ult up.
@@subasafreak lol have you never heard of kiting or orb walking? I can't tell if you're trolling or new.
@@devilkingaming4619 i'm not trolling you just haven't play the game it is clear.
I just hate how they completely killed orbwalking and gliders, partly because everyone can just teleport right on top of you. Twitch is completely pointless and even when he ends up being better, attack speed is such a pointless stat for ADCs, why bother when as a character everything can just walk at you and kill you? Go all in on doing a billion damage a hit and screw having skilled movement, just blow people up. Real healthy.
Don’t you love wanting to play a traditional adc bot just for the enemy to go tk and a mage to just shut you down when you try and glide :/
Speaking of old mobility, I wish they’d change Tristana’s rocket jump. The number of times I get hit by stuff that shouldn’t hit me is crazy. It’s like Tristana exists at point A until the ability ends
Funfact about Bel'veth's dashes. The tail swipe returns dashes based on your proximity to the enemies when they're knocked up. So if you press W then flash into the middle of a 4 man knock up it'll restore your dashes in all four directions.
I think more dash cancels / knock down effects would be a good way to solve this. Jinx chompers and Veigar cage having a dash cancel makes them much more reliable forms of self peel compared to say a slow. Poppy W and Taliyah E are also have way more gameplay to them than grounding or silence.
stop being cowards riots, put counters in the game
the game isn't going to fall apart bc a few more champs can stop dashes, or because a few games a skirmisher couldn't dash once every 3 seconds
we have silences, give is more Grounds
More Cassios, Taliyahs, Viegars, Poppy's, Singed's, Vex's
Viktor W, Vel'koz E, Yorick W, Skarner W, Karthus W, Kog'maw E, etc they should all have ground
Having had my first time laning against Ambessa today, I can say that I definitely had that 'WTF is that champ' moment on multiple occasions. When you get THAT much mobility with zero downsides, it really messes with the power budget of a champion.
This is a sorely needed video considering that Riot doesn't think before they release new or update old champions... At least the new Viktor doesn't have a dash, but then again he didn't even get reworked, it was just a visual update.
I think the increase in mobility is also the reason there are so few artillery mages in the game. Those that do exist get played kind of rarely since the other team usually has at least one champ that can easily close in on them to, if not kill them, make sure they can't poke the rest of the team.
I wish there we more abilities that interact with or directly counter mobility, like poppy's w
It got out of hand when Lee Sin was added to the game. Ever since then mobility has been insane and almost every new champ has high mobility. He was the first champion (I think) that had 2 dash abilities.
tbh one thing that i find quite interesting because of this is how flash isn't something that's always picked. Many champs simply just don't need the extra mobility granted by it anymore (camille, shaco, ambessa (imo)) while others would like it but their kit revolves so much around running that ghost is just a better option with higher uptime (olaf, singed, heca).
Yone's conceptual passive was going to be "he can dash towards any enemy champion that has recently used a dash or blink (you're forced to build movespeed and position better*)"
Wish my dad could get some dashes so he can dash back home with the milk
Having an Item option that adds Groudning effect on your AOE spells like Anivia R, Morganna W could be good counter opportunity against all the dashes nowadays
We are at a point we are measuring mobility as jumps/second.
The Viktor "Rework" missed the opportunity to have the stun field ground like the singed glue
Enemy team: pick Ambessa
Me: Bear
This is why I eventually gave up on nearly all of my favorite champions to play. You can walk at them menacingly but if they beat you they just sit at your max range and kite, if they lose to you, they just leave. There’s no winning as a show champ anymore. Even if you win lane you’ll run into this same exact problem with the rest of the enemy team. And pray to god the enemy jungler doesn’t notice this and just sit under your tower….
An ability idea for an anti dash champion that could be cool is kind of like old talon e with the blink and silence. Only instead of silencing you and being a blink all the time it has a base form that becomes a blink and ground behind an enemy unit that just recently dashed.
5:50 Meanwhile lucian E: just dash
(I know it lowers cooldown off passive)
Malphite: press q to lose 25% of your mana and deal 70 damage
I always think back to how Riven felt like she was ahead of her time. A Dash and small lunges plus a short hop that could bypass short terrain walls if you were precise enough? Back in the day those almost felt downright unfair. Super fun to play once you got the hang of it. A small precursor of what was to come.
Nowadays I doubt she's even in the discussion about mobility.
I would love to see more conditioned dashes, ex. dash is only accessible if you land a tough skillshot first. Vex/Briar R feel a lil overtuned in some cases, but they are ULTIMATE spells. I'm more imagining a rebalance to Sylas E where his second cast only becomes accessible if he uses something else in his kit, ex. landing Q explosion on a champion empowers his next E to have two parts.
Also interesting note for the nilah and samira dashes being "opposite types", nilah E is also a targeted dash, just a different set of targets. Nilah having a free target dash was probably an iteration of her kit in alpha, but thankfully it's no longer available
i was learning j4 recently and his ult felt so useless. only old mages and adc were able to stay within the cage almost every common champion can escape it.
On ambessa you can freedash after ultimate as well, making it 6
Genuinely feels like they put Vex in the game as "Here, see? We made a yordle to counter mobility creep." and then used that as an excuse to go balls-to-the-wall with mobility for every character since. :/
Meanwhile, Paladins back during its beta did an overhaul of Champion Legendaries (essentially that game's version of Keystone Masteries mixed with skill trees) because champions were becoming too mobile with certain loadouts and some like Androxus were becoming too dominant as a result.
In combat mobility, out of combat mobility, MS towards enemies, MS away from enemies, If you break up mobility into more specific scenarios, you can limit its agency. So give an assassin mobility towards enemies but not give them move speed to run away. Gives them engage window, but still makes them vulnerable to counter play.
I literally thought to myself “a vars video would be cool right now” and this video popped up at the top of my recommended
make a summoners spell that explodes in an AOE around you that shortens the distance of dashes
Ksante has way more than 2(3) dashes when you factor in that his mobility spells reset and become faster in his ult form, aswell as e coming off cooldown, in a skirmish its not unheard of ksante dashing 6 times.
Absolutely agree. I’m an OTP Neeko, so I have more passive mobility than most other champs, but it genuinely has gotten impossible to play against hyper mobile champs as they can easily dodge out of my R given I don’t have flash, or they can easily catch up if I use it for peel.
My main issue with mobility is that it defeats the entire premise of some champs. Ie tanks and brawlers should be the most immobile characters in the game. Strong yet tanky; but have difficulty staying on top of a target. The issue is that isn’t even remotely accurate to what we have in game. Tanks and brawlers tend to be some of the most mobile champs (mundo, ksante, voli, Zac, Rell, Shen, Galio) yet all can easily stay on top of you without that mobility in the first place. It makes it so that there is 0 counterplay to fight these champs when they can just walk on you regardless of CC, you can’t kill them, and they kill you insanely fast (tanks dealing damage is an entirely different form of BS rn)
It’s not very fun when I get out chased by a tank as a mage running symbiotics, celerity, relentless, with CC and speed buffs.
Fights like Yone, Shaco, Yasuo, and Ksante are some of the most absolute cancer matchups in the game on the basis that I have no counterplay to get them off of me, cause they have dashes and CC, more than what any other character can really fight against unless they are tanky.
Meanwhile Vladimir gets 0.5seconds of 10% move speed every 3rd Q.
Yes, next question
My problem with mobility is that many of the characters I enjoy playing _don't have mobility,_ so I end up just kind of losing to anybody who does--because all the good positioning in the world can't help you if you can't even stand on the same screen as your lane opponent. If I play Swain into Akali or Kat, my options are "don't farm" or "get dived constantly" (and it _REALLY_ doesn't help that Swain isn't allowed to be tanky _or_ have damage, because that would be OP--as opposed to Katarina, who has damage, more health than me, _and_ tons of mobility).
If every character in League played like Akali it would be fine; I've played Akali ditto 1v1s as a practice method, and it's actually really fun...but most characters _don't_ play like Akali. And that sucks, because I actually really like the slower pace of fights with characters like Swain, Malzahar, or Xerath. I _like_ playing around the resource management of the mana bar, carefully choosing when and how to commit to fights. But that's simply incompatible with characters who have half a dozen dashes. For a while I stopped taking flash because there was no point--burning a multi-minute cooldown only to get chased down anyway by someone who has three flashes in their kit was just frustrating.
Vars, you would lose your mind if you saw Shiranui and Yamakaze from Onmyoji Arena
I want to say that the champion's that don't have a dash have some kind of utility or access to slow down opponents with ease, It's pretty common for champs to have some form of CC than dashes.
League will never be balanced in a champion vs champion sense but you always need to have clear counterplay even if it's the most minor example. Dodging an important ability is counterplay enough or baiting out a single ability of a stat check champion.
These things used to matter so much but are now completely irrelevant due to low cooldowns and over complicated damage numbers to a point where you feel like there is less counterplay today than it was 10 years ago when everything was so simple and point and click based.
I don't mind gapclosing abilities that place a champ in danger. Ambessa quite literally just shuts down some spells where it becomes impossible to land certain abilities because she nearly always has a dash off cooldown. I had similar complaints about Qiyana on release, but ambussy takes it to a new level.
So in theory, if all champions had the same mobility options, and were all ranged, then mobility in general would be more balanced
Kinda like Deadlock
I'm very torn on this (The mobility specifically. Fuck making everyone ranged). It would be fucking awesome, but at the same time the entire game, on a **CORE** fundamental level, would need to be COMPLETELY rebalanced. The few stat checkers we still have would have to get nerfed into the ground, certain abilities of this "Low CD, universal mobility" thing would become extremely redundant thus multiple champs would need at least 1 of their abilities completely replaced, & need we mention Anti-Mobility Champs (Singed, Cassio, Poppy, etc) needing to be asked "How DO we nerf you?"
*They may be faster, but we have approach velocity*
What if we had items in the shop with effects that trigger if an enemy dashes within a certain radius from you? Could be passive effects or even an active effect that could be manually triggered
August actually talked about this recently, which you can see in a video on HeWhoQuacks channel. YT will probably cook the link, so I'll throw it in a comment replying in case, but it's called An Increasingly Mobile LoL.
We need more champs that have grounding ability’s
It’s really annoying how much movement speed has been nerfed but gigadashing is still in the game more and more.
It’s only fair that grounding cc be more abundant to compensate.
I played Caitlyn. I use a dash away from Ambessa, also used blink, but she catch up with me without ult anyways, so what the point? Oh, and also she killed me with 4 attacks and i deleted like 30% of her HP bar, but we had same item count, like 2.5 items.
As someone who played the mobile clone(ML) its pretty popular in SEA. I just think about how ambessas kit is just ruby
Has 2 ccs deals decent dmg heals a lot and can dash and gain mr and armor every skill