Warhammer Old World Rules Update: Phases and Magic. IN DEPTH ANALYSIS
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- In depth discussion on the latest announcement from Warhammer: the Old World, where a bit more meat is put on the bones of phases. My thoughts - and critique - of what all this might mean!
Announcement: www.warhammer-...
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These omens don't seem too bad... but the mists are still swirling and even the stars may lie. Moreover, I oppose the reduction of magic from a force transcending the laws of reality to a list of wizard abilities oddly in-step with the abilities of ordinary mortals as has befouled many games. I think there should be a distinction between being empowered because you're within a mystic aura and being empowered because of a battle cry. Magic phase helped with that distinction but now magic may be stepping of that (rightful!) pedestal into the muddy realm of the mundane... worrisome if true!
I greatly enjoyed your and Dr. Blaxill's commentary together. Please consider granting us more be-moanings in the future
100% with you on that! It blew my mind seeing them together.@@RyanDattilio
Isn't the reality here that Wizards now have 4 magic phases instead of just one? Seems like an upgrade for me. In all honesty its better that way since magic can be tuned more finely to specific use cases and is spread out over an evolving turn, making it much more useful to the specific game state at hand and the use of magic much more reactive and potentially useful. Could also be an upgrade the wizards themselves since their spell loadout could be fine-tuned to their role and use-case.
Yes, I also interpret the omens as fairly favourable (more so still since the 'movement' announcement).
Exactly- for magic to indeed be magic, it must by definition transcend mundane abilities and be qualitatively something that would otherwise be impossible. Otherwise a mage would not be recognised as a practitioner of a mysterious art of the normally impossible- but merely a particular skilled practitioner of the mundane- like an accountant or a lawyer. Heaven forfend!
Good analysis. I look forward to these everytime we get new information. 👍
It will be really interesting to see what they come out with for the rest of the phases. Hopefully they wont make us wait too long to find out.
The rules update commentary I've been waiting for. Saw other content creators uploading comments on the rules since their release...I'll wait to hear from the Doctor
The most interesting thing about the change to magic and its phasing is it reveals a humility on the part of the GW rules writers. Since magic produces effects similar to those produced in other phases of the game, it becomes a way of producing those effects out of phase, and this can either be extremely powerful or extreme weak depending upon the contexts.
For example, if I have unit of knights that wants to charge a unit of bowmen stationed on a hill I would not be able to if a unit of pikemen were standing ready between them. This is because I must move, then shoot, then charge, then conduct combat. So, even if I could shoot the pikemen with my own bowmen in the shooting phase, they would still have blocked my knights’ movement in the movement phase. If, however, I could start my turn with a magic phase (similar to age of sigmar) where I kill the pikemen with a fireball, then my knights could move to reach the bowmen and charge in the appropriate phase later on. In this way magic produced an out of phase shooting effect that is more powerful than it may have appeared based simply on the number of wounds it says it causes on paper.
Conversely, if we have a magic phase that occurs after the movement phase (such a psychic powers in older editions of 40k) then a spell that causes fear would be weaker or even detrimental to my army. If we have the same situation as before with the bowmen, pikemen, and knights, but I thought to cast a fear-inducing spell upon the pikemen I might find that by making them run I now risk failing my charge because they ran away after I had already used up my opportunity to advance my knights in the movement phase.
So when I say that GW is being humble what I mean is that they have recognized their own inability to assess the strength of the magical effects when those effects are produced out of phase. A fireball produced in the shooting phase can be compared in strength to shooting on a like-to-like comparison of wounds caused, and a spell that induces fear in the morale phase can be compared like-to-like with effects that make units more likely to fail morale after losing combat.
This system of effects only occurring in phases where it is appropriate for them to do so was implemented in the most recent edition of Horus Heresy and given its success I’m not surprised to see that repeated in The Old World.
I haven't played a game since 5th edition, so I'm on my own cloud of excitement and glee every time I see an old world article.
Thanks for offering a different perspective, looking forward to your future videos as we learn more about the game.
3:35 It was literally called "1. Start of the Turn Phase". The only thing new here (magic and fanatics aside) is more structure to the order in which you do things by way of the sub-phases.
14:45 In addition to that, it looks fundamentally just like how psychic powers work in 40K 3rd through 6th editions, so it's just as old-school as WFB 6th through 7th editions are at this point.
On a side note, I agree that each generation of rules/magic/lore (in both Fantasy and 40,000) has its pros and cons and thus its own appeal, but I wouldn't be caught dead ranking WFB 8th edition anywhere near first place in any category.
I hope that there is a limitation to the number of casts/dispels each wizard could do each turn. I think this would add a portion of a back and forth recourse management system back into the game.
Pushback and routing were in early editions like 3rd. If you didn't break, more likely without combat modifier affecting test. You moved the unit back 2" you could follow up and stay in combat or not if you want. If you've been pushed back you lose advantageous from spears/pikes. The victor who followed gets +1 to hit in the next round. The +1 to hit is what chargers got.
Solid video, Doc. Thanks!
So very happy to have pushback returned… been waiting for it since 3rd Ed.
_"This video has my consent!"_ -Karl Franz.
I actually think it sounds pretty decent so far.
My biggest fear is the tone and aethetics of the game. Is it going to try hard to appeal to _"little boys named Kevin"_ (extra points if you know where that's from), with everyone riding blue dinosaurs within a year? Or is it going to channel the more grounded feel of earlier editions. Rules are somewhat secondary to me.
It's an unspoken thing in the official Warhammer community but I hope this game is a winner and overtakes Age of Sigmar eventually. Trolls taking stupidity tests at the start of this turn, that brings back some memories from ancient times, I think giants had to do the same.
Good content
The 21 minute mark and onward was very applicable to myself. I took this as sage advice and found it very helpful. The new game is not for me, and that is the way it is. I enjoyed this entire video and am happy to have found your channel.
I love third edition (last I played too 🙄) where you saved cards like Total power to the right opportunity.
I was ready for the punks intro this time
Agree that the tactics and bluff of the mini game magic phase is really good and creates more dynamic rather than dice roll buff / impact affect
Nice job
Really very interesting. So glad I came across this account ❤
Luke is the goat
With the mention of a Command Radius and the fact they are mentioning a "Strategy" phase I wonder whether we are going to see something like Warmaster orders
Always entertaining, Doc!
I do kinda wish for either a 5th edition magic system, or something like 8th. I do like winds of magic. I doubt that’s the model they have used though
I like all of this. I am also a big fan of 8th Edition Magic, I think when you look at it altogether, it's very well balanced, and makes for some very exciting moments, or may be a full on dud the entire game and the winds of magic are just not blowing. But it'll be nice to see mages being something else other than characters in ranged unit bunkers in the backline that are just looking to six-dice their apocalyptic spell to attempt to wipe out a block of models.
I LOVE IT!!!!!!!
I concur that the basis of the 8th edition magic system was the best.
It will be very sad if there's no mana resource and spells are just abilities with some mindless dice rolling.
Constant character buffs turned me off modern GW games. Hope they're not to prevalent in olde worlde
I think they are going to essentially try to replicate the feel of the warhammer total war games, onto the tabletop
An inference by your choice of language. Doc Are you a shadowrun/cyberpunk fan?
3rd ed is life, 3rd ed is love.
*7th
Our group of 11 8th edition players just look forward to new minis, none of us expects the rules to be good. Half of the armies will probably never get a real army book and so on. Except GW surprises a lot we prob. gonna stay with the 8th. Just hope the group doesn't split up du to a few changing to TOW
It will be intriguing to see what happens. If its really good (which I am sure we all hope it is) then there might be a great conjunction of reunion. If it isn't so good, then I think 8th ed will live on- maybe much in the way 6th ed continues to do. To be honest I'd love for all the editions to continue to be played, because they all have something nice about them that reflects the gaming and hobby zeitgeist of the time they were created.
@@DrBlaxill Yes, if it becomes a great game that would be the best outcome and our whole group would embrace it and we all going to switch.
I understand what you are saying about all editions, I still love 5th edition but only got 1 friend to play with, so it is rare. Most editions got "something" to them. Except the 7th in my case, never liked it much and never played it again since the tournament days of it.
Lets all hope for a great new game in the big Warhammer fantasy family! Cheers.
More of this
Even though you agreed with Mom I’m subscribing. 😂
alright punk
Yeah, from what I am seeing so far, I don't think I will be playing the game itself. I might get the new models for other rules systems but that's about it.
Just play Conquest
everyone talks about loving complex games but complex games generally really arent that complex they just devolve to build your army this exact way or loose
I think they will remove the dispel function and reduce the power of magic. To save time.
From an earlier article: "This means players will have to plan ahead, moving their Wizards as carefully as any other unit, both to ensure they can bring their magic to the right place at the right time, and to ensure they can counter the spells of enemy Wizards."
It’s going to function almost identical to AOS. Calling it now.
WFB rule were HORRIBLE over the years. I played competitively for 25 years (since 1997)... they rules were piss poor and the balance was too. I still have a love for it though. I don't think we ever played 8th ed out of the box. We had to mod that game all over the place.
The magic phase is going to be 9th Ed 40k/sigmar, 2d6 vs 2d6, caster wins ties.
It sucks, it's basically a dumbed down version of 6th fantasy onwards.
The no base to base rule means it's an even more dumbed down dice bucket game than was 8th.
It's basically only a pretext to release and sell new models
‘It all went wrong.’ Thanks for your quality complaining. I was fortunate enough to sell my Warhammer collection before the game was abandoned. I was baffled how the company abandoned such a loyal fanbase who had spent so much time and money on their collections over many years and iterations of the rules.
GW sucks but you can keep playing. WFB is very much still alive
It was due to Chapter House winning the legal case against GW ie. that they could create similar fantasy miniatures with names like 'Elves' and 'Dwarves' etc. as GW didn't have exclusive right to these generic fantasy types so cue Age of Sigmar and GW creating 'new' miniatures named 'Aelves' / 'Wanderers' and 'the Dispossessed' (dwarves !) instead with a rushed launch ruleset of around 2 pages. I did some research into the guy who burnt his high elf army on UA-cam before he took down the video and he was actually a teacher of sorts who wrote a few fiction books. I don't have the book titles or his name anymore.
Can someone tell me how many times the term 'diversity' is used in this video?
I’m glad the mini game has gone, I like the idea that heroes get abilities to make them a viable choice over wizards.
You never saw an Ogre Tyrant, Elf Lord or Dwarf Lord except at higher point games as it was almost obligatory to take a level 4 wizard.
it was never obligatory. I rarely ever bother with a level 4 wizard for my high elves instead opting for the Fun Prince on a star dragon.... in 8th! Cause i'm not a meta-weeb.
I'm not sure I agree. If you took the fighting lord, your army was 1 point of leadership higher.
Now I haven't played since 3rd Edition (!), but I'm pretty confident the Dwarfs weren't fielding any level 4 wizards in the later versions (they did have wizards in 2nd/3rd though). I know there were Runelords and Runesmiths available and people did go for at least one of those (I guess I'll have to buy one if I want to get my old army up and running again), but I think the change in 8th for them was that with 'step up', hordes, supporting attacks or whatever it was more effective to have extra dwarfs with two handed weapons than it was to have more heroes. People who actually played it may well correct me of course.
Obviously the magic thing applied differently to everyone else though so I imagine your point is valid for most/all other armies who could have powerful wizards!