This vid got some real damn interesting feedback from the power scalers so I’ll respond to my favourite sentiments here (I’m on mobile plz excuse my grammar my oomfie lil kittens :3): “It’s just a hobby bro it’s not that deep” - I’m making fun of your hobby and there’s nothing you can do to stop me nuh nicky nuh nuh hehehe 😝 “Ki control is canon to dragon ball actually!!” - This is really interesting to me so I’m going to make a video analysing every instance in dragon ball where fans say “Ki control” is proven to exist, all of the examples I got in the comments were straight up lies or accidental misrememberings; taking similar ideas out of context like the Goku vs Beerus clash, but hey who knows ya’ll might be right, I’ll do a lot of research and make a full video dissecting the concept. “Doom Slayer and Dante’s guns aren’t regular guns!” - I think some of em are tho? You can unlock better shteez as you progress and there’s some lore about demon energy being infused with bullets but overall this really doesn’t affect the point; the idea of bullets hurting demons so therefore every single one of Doom Slayer’s punches is canonically power equivalent to the energy needed to blow up every Doom map infinity times over is absolutely bat shit insane lol. It’s just really funny brain rot, I luv you guys. “Attack potency is real actually!” - …yes, that’s- that’s the point. A lot of these arguments really highlight some of ya’ll didn’t watch the vid and got mad anyway. This video is about (among some other things) why attack potency happens, and why I don’t like it. “Inconsistent power scaling is entirely the author’s fault.” - Power scaling is an inconsistent practice in its own right, plus there’s a couple kinds of power scaling (author scaling and fan scaling) and both have their intricacies, flaws and problems. But even taking these comments at face value I actually mention in the video the fact that authors don’t care about mathematics, I agree with you on the fact that authors mess this shit up, why ya’ll going for my throat 😅 My argument wasn’t that authors should be scientifically accurate 100% of the time and should employ hardcore fan approved power scaling in all their works, it was that fans shouldn’t expect authors to hardcore power scale in the first place! People malding over the Mach 3 thing saying “the author admitted he was wrong actually” YEESSSSSS! That’s what I’m saying! You’re understanding!!!! Some of the detractors for this vid have brought up some really interesting and well thought out points (don't you ever think I'm saying I don't want critiques at all, I'm a new creator, I CRAVE critique), but a vast portion of this comment section is 30% people calling me a dumb bitch, 30% “it’s just a lil hobby we’re all nice really ❤” and 40% accidentally or purposefully misinterpreting all of the things I say and comparmentalising this into a little "gotcha!" I’m still early in my UA-cam career so I’m learning a lot; no matter how well I research my shteez a good portion of the communities I dissect will hate my guts, but I’m going to get better and better (I SHALL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE MUHAHAHA) at this so I hope I’ll be able to produce something each and every one of you can enjoy eventually.
Don't know about DMC but yeah doomguy guns are conventional guns with the occasional futuristic or esoteric one like the ballista or BFG but most of them are stuff that we have IRL like the shotguns, heavy machineguns and chainsaws the argument that they're not normal guns is based on a statement from the devs taken out of context where they say that he confirms doom guns are magically enhanced when all he actually says is that the quad damage power-up is Canon and not a game mechanic
This video isn't a dissection of the community, it's just you hating on it for no reason than you being bitter. Of course the community will not like you.
@@MidnightRants I do you can make a badass overpowered planet buster who never shows it. Like have a pacifist monk for the first half never throw a punch then when he does it makes massive shock waves and he says sorry and never does it again. Also I hate the reverse power scalers saying thats a no limits fallacy for Gods in fiction, We don't have to show omnipotence if the story implys it they might be till proven otherwise, can two difference characters be omnipotence yes if they exist in separate stories.
The only thing i like is when it causes "he can move faster than teleporting and 1 second is always like 3 days for him, he looses to baby with regular gun" moments @@Blackvoidwithwhiteside7193
I mean that’s because the flash is infuriatingly inconsistent there’s no powerscaling there just annoyance at how the fastest man alive got tagged by a dude with a gun. Literally how?!?!?
Power scalers: Sonic The Hedgehog can run at 18 times the speed of light Sonic Gameplay: I wonder if I can shave 7 seconds off of this 500 meter corridor.
@@TwistedLullabies Don't forget that Eggman can also keep up with sonic as well, because he can perceive and react to FTL movements. Which makes Eggman a galaxy level character, at the very least
Something I love about jjk is that it’s pretty much the antithesis to this problem. Power scaling wise, outside of some absolute bullshit, the strongest characters can’t even wipe out a city. Yet when a character like Toji or Sukuna comes around you FEEL how strong they are and they’re terrifying because the story generally does a great job at showcasing their power when realistically as far as anime go, they’re super weak. They’re just creative about it. To people who can’t outrun a car, a man who you blink and lose track of is fucking terrifying, even if he can’t split continents by sitting down.
Fandom shippers trying hard not reveal their own fantasies... No, but seriously, this makes no sense. You're just saying you see a weird sexual dynamic in this. Way to tell on yourself, bro.
"If you have ever known the pleasures of a woman's touch or the joys of touching grass, it's probably your first time hearing it......" 😭😭😭bro why are you attacking your target audience???
As a *firm* believer of attack potency, you would *never* catch me arguing that it is a real, scientific concept, as with powerscaling as a whole. We’re talking about unreal, often blatantly unscientific fictional universes… trying to use actual science to gauge how powerful some of these characters are would be an utter nightmare.
The problem with powerscaling is how to you form a baseline create some standard as a basis for comparing characters from different stories that have different rules. People try use real life as a basis because it is a fair standard, but it just results in rediculous conclusions.
I hate when people try to use real world science in power scaling. If we're gonna say people that dodge lasers are lightspeed reaction do not try bringing real world physics into it. If a person dodges lightning don't telling me how electricity is attracted to something or yadda yadda. Comics/cartoons/anime/fiction has people lifting infinity and running faster than light. Things that are physically impossible or just mean they kill all life on earth by using their powers once
I like to call this the Chuunibyou problem, where characters in fiction are described to be incredibly powerful, because it sounds cool, but little thought is given to the practical implications, so they don't look as powerful as they should.
This is part of the reason that I like One Punch Man, people in that universe aren’t the most powerful characters in fiction or anything but when their attacks are powerful we actually get to see the damage it can do😂
Here is the narrative point of giving him that infinite power so when he encounter kryptonite or magic and loses the power there are stakes. As know he has to fight the guy he beat easy without his powers and the roles are flipped
Power scaling is only fun when used to scale two characters from the same story that never interacted and try to figure out who would come out on top based on their opponents and if they had any similar opponents to compare their performance with. Otherwise it's not useful at all.
@@Sappysappster Yes, I don't deny that, read my previous comment again and you'll see how I said that powerscaling can be fun. But overall there comes a point where it gets out of hand and too ridiculous. There comes a point where it turns into a dick measuring contest between the participants, trying to prove that their favorite character can totally beat the other's favorite by any means necessary, even by defying all logic and pre established lore. Like, I've had people try and prove to me that Spiderman is somehow stronger than Invincible (from the Invincible series) which makes absolutely no sense. But using very shitty scaling and the logic behind attack potency they somehow make a silly argument that this is the case.
@Sappysappster I wouldn’t compare it to playing video games. No one gets into long winded debates scales fictional characters to each other for fun. They do it to “win” an argument. It’s like a sad dick measuring contest.
It can be fun to talk about how strong a character would be Irl but some people take it too seriously. Power scaling is still fun and shouldn't be treated like the damn plague.
The fundamental problem with powerscaling is, in my opinion, that powerscalers put *way* more thought into what they do than the writers themselves. The example of this that comes to mind is when Seth the Programmer used a statement from Tetsuya Nomura about that one scene in Kingdom Hearts III where Sora changed the timeline to undo the Guardians' defeat several minutes prior to argue that Sora was complex multiversal. Seth's logic made sense, but I highly doubt that Tetsuya Nomura was thinking about the complex math involved in recreating the multiverse from scratch.
@@niloyabid2851 When I call it "the fundamental problem" I'm talking about why powerscaling is stupid and a waste of time. I'm not saying it's a problem with the way the stories are written.
@@HunterStiles651 i mean, when you think about it, most fiction is a waste of time devoid of any direction, id say it then comes down to how you want to waste your time thinking about a fiction, the charas, the plot, themes, or the powerlevels.
@@HunterStiles651 If you enjoy it, it's not a waste of time. I've spent about 30 years *deep* into powerscaling, to the point of spending hours on it nearly every day. Other than sleeping, I don't think there's *anything* I've spent more time on. I would not consider a single *second* of that time wasted, because I enjoyed all of it.
Powerscalling is a hobby, attack the concept all you wanr but in the end of the day its just a subchapter of the internet doing what they think is fun, sure some vs debaters get pissy but theyre only common when you actively look for them. I genuinely dont agree with the notion of "powerscallers are all jobless losers" Becauss that is attacking people for what they find fun. Its all just for fun, we like seeing how strong a fictional character is with real math. Sure its not physically possible but its fiction, its all up to interpretation
So true, but i just dislike how often versus debating & powerscaling are lumped together as the same thing when people complain about the community around it. Versus debates can get toxic fast, like "can he beat goku?/nobody beats goku" Most of the time those videos are complaining about versus debaters getting pissy, but they just lump powerscalers as the same cause they dont see a difference.
I am so thankful that this video exists. This exact thing is what I've been trying to say to alot of people for ages. The most recent example of an debate I had with an online UA-camr who powerscales, was with the feat of Sonic the Hedgehog from the games and IDW comic having immeasurable speed as he can causally run faster than time it self. I explained that it makes no narrative sense since the feats we always see him do to be something like speed of sound, you know, the thing he's known for, but he just kept saying just because it doesn't work narratively doesn't mean it disproves a feat, that is 100% head canon. I wish they would use more common sense when scaling characters as at the end of the day, these characters exist to tell a story in their world, not just to be a power fantasy. If characters are as powerful as many power scales insist they are, the stories in those franchises just wouldn't work.
can people stop making powercalers up to be a bunch of cringy cry babies, sure some of us are like that, but that could be say for any internet community, we are just people that are having fun our own ways. but fun video though
this isn't a shortcoming or power scaling, all they do is follow the logic of the story, if it doesn't make sense it's because the story isn't logically consistant. you can't both catch bullets and be way slower than bullets at the same time. it is normal to not like logical inconsistencies in fiction. and that's the best kind of case when it's just inconsistent with real values of bullet speed worst case scenario they have slow bullets. but sometimes character A is faster than character B even though B is faster than C who is faster than A. and that's just bad writing.
ok but its usually way worse. like saying a character is light speed or something because they dodge lasers but then they take several episodes to go from one place to another. or saying that a character is infinitely fast because it was mentioned in a throw away statement that a place was 'beyond time'(whatever tf that means) and it was sort of implied that they traveled that place if you squint at it kinda.
One thing is to have some inconsistencies, and another to make things up contradicting mostly everything, not only the story itself. And yes you can stop bullets if you are strong enough and if you have good reaction or are well positioned. As for the lasers, what bothers me is them trying to argue that every lasers goes at the speed of light, even if they are way diferent to our own, or even have no problem to say they are even faster. Having beams that go slower than the speed of light in fiction while being completly diferent to the actual thing is a foreing idea to them, yet having it be way faster is something they do not have a problem with. Thats because there is not actual logic, just excuses to wank them as much as posible. A good example of this is One Piece when characters like Kizaru exist and they clearly do not move faster than him. Same with Polnareff and the hanged man
@@Dario-uj6qo maybe I haven't been exposed to the worst of it, but usually when I see that kind of wank it's when the character is compared to another one who is stronger, and it's more to make the point that there are no interpretation where the weaker character wins not that this interpretation is the most logical one.
There’s no such this as bad power scaling. The issue is bad writing. You don’t need to be a power scaler to understand a story’s inconsistencies in power levels is the WRITER’S fault. Power scalers simply apply logic to what’s shown on screen. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.
As someone who loves powerscaling for fun I feel the need to say that there are like two types of powerscaling. There’s what I like to call internal powerscaling which is scaling with in a self-contained story and then there’s external powerscaling which is powerscaling between fictional stories. Internal powerscaling is the important one that actually matters as it keeps a story consistent. I’m sure we’ve all been there watched the Flash outrun a bolt of lightning, stop a black hole, etc… and then he gets hit by a dude with a gun for no reason. That’s an example of when someone doesn’t use internal powerscaling it’s when a story doesn’t bother to follow its own internal logic. It’s essentially that A>B>C so A>C but sometimes a story will be weird and have C>A despite it making no sense. That is why I actually care about specifically internal powerscaling. It’s a way for authors and their audience to know stakes and is also the main reason the warf effect occurs. If the strongest guy in the group gets taken out then basic logic and internal powerscaling says that this new threat is also stronger than the other main characters meaning we need to take them seriously and be worried. Also it’s why you aren’t going to see like Krillin beat Beerus and if you did the entire fan base would have a meltdown because that wouldn’t make sense.
Authors care about telling a good story. Nobody cares about powerscaling except powerscalers. The whole point of superhero comics is for a hero to overcome a villain that is usually superior to them in some way. Case in point, if you powerscaled John Constantine against the things he goes up against, he loses every time, but due to wit and trickery, he finds a way to come out on top. I personally don't see the appeal of reducing characters to D&D stat sheets.
Superman is widely biased Like they just do favoritism for him and dumb and numb other heroes who are supposed to be similar i.e Shazam and martial man hunter... That's why I like invincible It's power scaling is much more realistic than any version of DC animation or not They scale very well Take for instance the stupid fight against doomsday and Justin league members Superman fought like he's the only superhero on dooms level while there's literally mm and we who can go on toe to toe Especially mm everytime he just gets burned alive while Shazam who is a Kryptonian level character just gets knwcked around like a cat lol @@caliginousmoira8565
@@jameslight4391 Yes powerSCALING matters, powershitting is the issue here. Me being low planetary level makes perfect sense. I literally burned the earth, easily. Because I am basically an giant space menace. And my whole thing is being an pyro maniacal world destroyer. This is powerscaling. Superman cannot even be called an superhero anymore because now he has literal infinite and now boundless feats more like an god. This bullshit is powershitting.
Ki control is just the fans terminology. The concept of ki control was actually explained in series. Vegeta talks about it during the Cell saga. I'm sure someone else has probably explained this in the comments though.
It's something that made Dead Mount Death Play feel novel. While characters in that series perform legitimately impressive feats, there's still a level of like "yeah, a human could achieve this", generally speaking. Then you encounter throughout the story these legitimately magical characters and realize like, they CAN meaningfully effect the structure of a building and it puts them on a level significantly higher than the prior "Tall dude with long sword who's good at fighting" without really changing the scope of the story.
I mean Ki control really isn't a fan made thing, the whole Beerus vs Goku fight universe destroying feat was literally about Goku not being able to control his output. One thing I heavily agree with is on Doom Slayer and Kratos where they're scaled more on concepts rather then what they actually do during fights, the one I find funniest is when people make a character infinite speed cause they moved in a space without time. One thing I really loved during the Broly movie is when they shattered dimensions actually showing the power behind their punches, as you said Dragon Ball characters really need to learn how to breathe in space so they can throw hands through planets, like when Beerus fought his brother. Loved the video, I'll keep enjoying powers scaling though cause I have a simple brain and seeing big number against big number makes my monkey brain happy.
But that's the point, my friend. It's not that powerscalers are wrong-because they’re not. Catching a bullet is a feat that a speedster moving at Mach 3 couldn't replicate. The issue lies with the writers, who are often inconsistent and struggle to maintain internal logic and consistency. Some examples may seem silly to you, but that’s likely because you’re not focused on the math involved in those situations. But then, you get cases like Black Panther defeating the Silver Surfer with a headlock or Batman dodging an Omega Beam, and suddenly, the frustration of powerscalers becomes understandable. This is a problem of careless writing; powerscalers just highlight the flaws. And honestly, most powerscalers don’t really take it that seriously-it’s more of a fun hobby. They know the author might not be great with math, but they still enjoy the story. Powerscaling logic is usually solid, and people rarely debunk it. However, since the conclusions sometimes clash with the world the writer intended, it can lead to some humorous critiques.
Batman dodging the omega beams is not an issue because it is a story and in stories the hero (usually) wins. The person who wins the fight is whoever the author wants to win either because of the plot, drama, themes, etc. There is no amount of fav character powerscaling wanking that can change that.
@@sam7559 Disagree hard on that. An author should make the universe internally consistent if it isn't a gag (this is the exception, jokes don't need to make sense in a conventional way). Wouldn't people be mad if Batman just woke one day and won in a race against a serious Flash? Maybe not. But many would if the logic used is just bad, like Batman just straight up being faster because he is fucking Batman. Batman dodging an omega beam is cool until you think how the fuck the man with human level strength can just out maneuver something that can catch much faster characters like Superman. Do you believe that Batman can dodge things that are probably lightspeed (because they actually hit speedsters with ease, with the exception of the Flash) ? Do you think a human can do it even if they predict exactly what is happening? It's hype that batman dodged that! I'm not gonna lie about that! But! It also makes you think about how the fuck it happens and if the only logic is that the writter wanted it to happen... Then it just breaks immersion and, consequently, the stakes in the story. If the writter doesn't have to care about the internal consistency of the universe they are working on, then the reader is left with an empty feeling that nothing matters, because the stakes never existed. The result was predermined from the very beggining and the journey to it is just something that doesn't matter at all.
@thalesgarcia6955 "The result was predermined from the very beginning" Yes, they always having been. Fiction writers aren't looking into a special window and then creating a documentary on what they see. Goku, Superman, Batman, they always win because the writer choose for them to win, not because they're writer did a complex math equation and determined that Freiza's punches can only blow up planets that are 95.68% percent of the size Goku can blow up.
@@sam7559 Yes, but it the job of the writter to hide that fact. The writter needs to create tension and just being obvious that there is no other reason for something to happen other than "it was written so" kills it. Also, just to be clear, I'm not speaking of the author following equations and all that. I'm just talking about things that pass an extreme. Like a character that is just peak real life martial artist fighting hand to hand with creatures that are hypersonic and somehow winning (generic example, not talking about batman here). Also, I don't believe in powerscaling characters from different stories. That is just for fun, but only that. Different universes, different rules and incompatible narrative makes for a poor combination in finding any logic in a discussion. There is no reason to take this seriously. Internal universe consistency is the thing that matters to me not because of how much physics, math or whatever is broken, but because the writter previously convinced me of something to just say otherwise when its convenient. Batman and the omega beam is the perfect example, because the writter made me believe that batman is extremely weaker and slower than the rest of the justice league. The omega beam was convincing in it being undodgeable (except if your title is Flash). Then, somehow, the writter wants me to believe batman can dodge it just because he can predict it? I just can't and it kills the tension because from now on, the information the writter gives can be just negated on a whim.
@@sam7559 An author has absolute power, but this doesn't mean they should use it recklessly. If an author makes a character do something beyond their established capabilities without providing an explanation, it breaks the illusion of stakes. Part of the fun in an action story is watching how a character will succeed or fail against a challenge. The story becomes boring if the audience realizes the author is lazy and solves problems by ignoring the rules of their own work. Restrictions, like 'Batman is just a human,' are boundaries for the writer and promises to the reader. These promises ensure the author won't resolve conflicts in arbitrary ways, making the story more engaging. They challenge the writer to find creative solutions within the framework they've established.
I enjoy a powerscaling vid from time to time but they definitely lose me when I hear “this character based on this one scene can obliterate the multiverse 10 trillion times over”
Cannon does matter.I'm annoyed about the idea that you actually want every fight in Dragonball to be cataclysmic. It's a martial arts gag series, do i think most of the fighters in the series can destroy galaxies easily? yes but i love the story as well and the humor just as much as the power of the characters but their power wouldn't mean anything to anyone if it weren't for the story of how they got there at least we have some explanation other than they felt like it.
On the subject of Star Wars, I once got into a debate with someone who took that Vader quote - "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the force!" - absolutely literally. Thus illustrating the cardinal sin of the power scaler: the fetishization of literalism and brute force over the metaphors and subtleties that make stories worth reading in the first place. The idea that the force CAN'T destroy planets, but remains more valuable or useful than something that CAN is infinitely more intriguing than the idea that Vader can just explode stars on a whim and has thus far chosen not to for no logical reason. Power scalers seem to be unable to comprehend that there are people who aren't as fixated on spectacle as they are.
Powerscalers are also often overlooking feats like "faster than light". Not only do they sometimes apply that label because a character dodged a lightbeam looking attack (which visibly traveled slower than a bullet). But completely ignore the implications of it, while citing the laws of physics pften to make their point A.) Characters look at their opponents movements while if they travel faster than light, light reaches their retinas _slower_ than the attack, and even as an outside observer you'd only have 2 states reaching you. B.) The magnitude of a sonic boom created by breaking the sound barrier to that magnitude would be devastating, that's nothing to do with attack potency, that's just matter moving through a gas at a high speed. C.) At such speeds you'd be reaching time dilation in ridiculous ways.
@danieltodorov7753 I wasn't sure but I just looked into it and apparently it's a special gunsmith named Nell from the novels who specifically made the guns for him so he can infuse his demonic energy in them so yeah their definently not normal guns.
I feel like powerscaling is important to have internally though. If you make a character sit specifically on some sort of pecking order and have someone above them lose a fight to the weaker character then you have to give a reason why the fight played out that way or you throw the audience’s suspension of disbelief
Characters being strong is cool, inconsistency doesn't matter as long as the story is fun. I've never actually heard about the attack potency thing, it sounds dumb lol, but nonetheless, big numbers are fun so let power scalers do what they want, it doesn't really have any affect on the story considering that as you mentioned most writers don't give a shit about power scaling.
It makes those people less able to appreciate writing when all they care about is power and not the many other aspects of what makes stories resonate with us. It's not a complete tragedy, but it is a bad thing.
@@danieltodorov7753 People should just be able to enjoy whatever aspect of a story they want. I definitely prefer when a series is well written over the characters being strong, for example my 3 favourite battle shounen anime/manga are Yu Yu Hakusho, HxH and Rurouni Kenshin but sometimes dumb power levels are just cool to see. Putting that aside, what are power scalers really doing that's so harmful to anyone but themselves and their own free time? As mentioned they certainly have no effect over the author's and as long as you don't let them bother you they have no sway over anything else.
@@joshuafrazier3904 an opinion they don't have a right to push onto others? they just shared an opinion online that nobody is even obligated to read, nobody got forced to except or believe anything lol. Someone replied to their comment and they replied back, so it wasn’t even unwarranted for them to say something back. what exactly do you mean by push onto others? Normally that implies force doesn’t it.
@@dylanbarrett508They literally say that powerscalers can't enjoy stories because they'e too focused on powerscaling. Are you illiterate or just a troll?
When you bring anime and cartoons like regular show into it, powerscaling Marvel just seems kinda like saying which dog could beat which in dogfighting.
I always remember that first appearance: Vegeta charging his ki blast made the earth rumble and lightning appear… FIRST APPEARANCE!!! By Buu's arc, he should punch a wall and destroy the Milky Way.
for dragon ball i've always seen it as them channeling the 'energy/power' into their target. when they use blasts they should destroy everything especially when it gets knocked away.
@@elcalabozodelandroide2 control de q? si el fenomeno no depende Vegeta, depende le la cantidad de energia q acumula, se produce es por acumular mucha energia muy rapido en un lugar muy pequeño... ahora reuna 1000 mas energia y mas rapido y a la atmosfera ni la tierra no le pasa nada.... lol
This is honestly one of the better deconstructions of power scaling I have seen so far. I don't particularly hate power scaling but I always found the concept of attack potency to be flawed. Good to see someone else who agrees on this. Very nice and detailed video.
As someone who likes to power scale I completely agree. Power scalers will completely ignore all logic and context and purely look at stats at their peak. They'd take two characters, one that can throw a punch so fast it can create a bubble as hot as the sun, and another characters who with their strongest punch against a boxing bag, broke their hand and so much as put a hole in the bag; then clearly character one is stronger right...no bc I left out the context that character two is a full grown man and character one is a mantis shrimp...
man took a 30 minute dump on the entire power scaling community .... absolutely goated you echoed sentiments I felt for a long time and I'm glad someone finally said it
Powerscaling in general isnt bad. In fact alot of people who claim they hate powerscalers, are indeed themselves powersclaers. All powerscaling is is determining what characters are capable of based on feats theyve preformed before. Its as simple as Character A has only shown to be able to lift 500 lbs. Character B has shown to be able to lift 1,000 lbs. Based on that information Character B is stronger than charcacter A. At the end of the day it is ultimately on the writer to be aware of the characters feats and show what they're capable of and explaoning why planet busters dont detsroy the planet with their fights. The fans can only take the information the writer and the story gives.
I agree with basically everything you say in this video, except that you can't have a form of "attack potency". One example I had in a story idea was one where the characters were actually capable of destroying planets, but they were all able to absorbe that level of energy to get them to be damaged. But this gives the factor that if any of these characters are fighting each other, they need to be very careful not to miss a single strike or they are killing everyone on the planet. So there can be an explanation for something like that, but most of the explanations I've heard are rediculous.
"If you have ever known the pleasures of a woman's touch or the joys of touching grass" Meanwhile, here in Venezuela, me and my nerdy acquaintances who touch grass, go to the beach, and hang out with women, debate about anime and cartoons 😂 I guess american culture is quite different Still, the OG debaters often disregarded author's statements, one time they were even mocked because in their community "feats reign supreme" And even if those words were meant to be an insult, they're perfectly describe the most reasonable perspective in this particular hobby. Feats are better for scaling than most writer's statements (Toriyama himself forgot how powerful his characters were before Super started). The key to avoid going crazy is to remember this is just a hobby
I think there was only one time DBZ where the level of Goku or anyone else's power really sets in and its the Cell Tournament. First was the scene when Goku charged up a Kamehamaha and everyone was so afraid that if he fired it towards earth from the sky it would have destroyed the planet and the next time was when Cell bitched out and tried to blow up everything. outside of that the tournaments in super were held in the space between universes because of the destructive powers of the participates and the arenas were made my angels but that doesn't really show the raw power of the people in dragon ball
@coolbeans107 I get what you mean but it still didn't feel like a universe was wiped out. You didn't see the countless amounts of galaxies because erased. It just shows that zeno getting rid of zamasu but if they didn't say the entire universe was wiped you wouldn't have known
It might be worse when such a high attack potency only applies to a specific weapon or power, nothing else in a character's arsenal, but powerscalers just slap that AP onto EVERYTHING the character has (and/or even ignore the rule of Kryptonites). Like, there's a reason certain moves in, say, video games have differing attack power values, and even why some have type weaknesses.
Most power scalers will just say the max power a characters has that they can use under normal circumstances and just go if they land blank attack they can win. Not that every punch is equal to their strongest attack
it mainly comes down to narrative convenience. Because let's be honest, if the universe split in half every time the Hulk punched Abomination the story would kind of be counter intuitive to him saving people. That's not an excuse for the writers oversight but it's why that happens. Attack potency was created as head canon for the debate community to explain away this issue and allow the discussions to even happen in the first place. If you wanna win in a lot of cases, when they bring up a character's power and use terms from a wiki like VSBW for example just say "that's not official to the comics, I don't except it" and that's done. I stopped doing that kind of thing because something about this chronic online arguing makes people very toxic and even gets into real world implications, like doxing for example. The only debates I engage in are real world things, such as theology or sports, and occasionally politics. In those spaces you can't use "outerversal" or any other made up term to win. You actually have to actually debate for real and that's where I get the enjoyment out of it, the actual discussions not the "speed blitz bfr narrative transcendence, concede you rat" nonsense.
My god, I’m so glad someone is saying this. People really need to stop with this logic born from DBZ power scaling. Unless the threat a character is facing can not be solved using force, or the story takes place on a galactic scale (meaning the story is about traveling through space). Then the story should end after the characters reach planet buster level’s of power. Stories in general are at their best when they stay at street level’s of power.
@@ether2275 you are technically correct. But I would say the most important thing is that characters are not overpowered for the story the writer wishes to tell. For example, Dragonball Z, or super would not be as popular if it was consistent with its power scaling. If it was the story would quickly become stale and boring. People want stories that are both interesting and consistent.
The author of jjk did actually debunk the mach 3 later and to be fair people will get mad it's like you watch the flash going light speed or something like that then a random guy with a gun take him down just for the sake of plot sometimes The author have the right to do what they want but sometimes they do some weird stuff like goku blowing up planets then he can't lift 40 tons lol
Writers either need to stop making their characters so strong they can't properly depict that strength, or figure out how to consistently depict that strength within the confines of their stories. "He's holding back" makes sense, but it can only carry you so far.
Powerscailing isn’t fun anymore. It stopped being fun out of its ridiculousness at first and then it isn’t fun to even mock it. I’m literally tired. EVERY TIME when nerds are making some characters who CANONICALLY don’t have any supernatural powers (like Sportacus or Baki characters) into some city-busting hypersonic monster… Something’s dying inside me. And I don’t even want to hear any glazing of Dragonball. Just please… I’m actually feeling stupid for participating in powerscailing community even if it was only for standing for some of my beloved characters. But hey. At least some powerscalers are making really cool edits
Lmao dude, Sportacus CANONICALLY hit a ball to the moon. Show me an irl human who can do that, I'll wait. Honestly it's so funny that people are getting mad at powerscaling fucking Sportacus. We powerscale for fun, you rage because it genuinely bothers you.
@ ever heard of a thing called “exaggeration”? It’s basically that. You can calculate that it takes bazillion newtons of force to do that but I don’t think that this one and only moment in a whole series means that Sportacus was meant to be able to destroy cities with punches. He’s just a regular healthy athletic human story wise. Also I’m not getting mad. I’m just tired of powerscailing. Especially when powerscalers are joining conversations where I don’t want to hear their bull$hit. Like when we’re talking about Demon Slayer and suddenly here comes that one guy with his “Lmao Gojo solos your weak verse”. It happens too often.
@@КириллТрифонов-е5ф Ever heard of a thing called fun? Genuinely, what does it matter if the calcs say he can destroy a city? He isn't a shonen anime character lmao. I can understand being annoyed at someone wanking a character like Goku or Gojo, but who genuinely cares if someone thinks Sportacus can destroy a city? How is it any more dumb than hitting a ball casually to the moon or literally running at super speed because he's athletic? He's already potrayed as blatantly superhuman, but ig TOO MUCH IS TOO MUCH in your children's tv show lmao. Also dude, "I have to see something I don't agree with on the internet" Gee, almost like this is a social platform where anyone can express their opinion, no matter how dumb or subjective. Honestly this isn't even a powerscaling issue, that is literally how the internet works.
@@КириллТрифонов-е5ф I have no issue with that my guy. I'm just saying, there's always gonna be the "but can he beat x?" guy who everyone finds annoying. Just ignore them.
Never saw this dude more white in my life but now I'll watch every single video he drops for the next decade 100%. Dude could've speak english but instead he choose speak FACTS.
@OnlyLiarGameFan Yes we all think that saying that your favorite fictional character is 'super duper mega ultra versal' and 52475 dimensional makes you very cool.
Love this video and your channel, new subscriber :) only suggestions I really have are to talk at least a little faster and focus a little more on your hooks, because when the video started I had a feeling it was gonna be a slop analysis but I'm glad I stuck around
Bocchi can beat Goku Her feats are nothing to scoff at. She was able to turn into Godzilla. Those who know Godzilla lore knows he never loses. She started breaking the matrix in the famous Bocchi glitch scene. Making her an absolutely omniversal threat to even be capable of that. She popped like a balloon. Then came back the next scene. Meaning she can resist existence erasure itself. So hakai is ineffective against Bocchi. Strongest feat of them all. She can turn to dust which inflicts poison to those who breathe it in. We all know Goku is weak to poison types. So now acknowledge Bocchi as your anxious overlord.
Hakai wud still be effective since it erased dr mashiroto who earlier had come back after being erased from the narrative itself. Also beerus is immune to gag characters
I'm normally against the powerscaller side but I feel you're comming from a way too utilitarian point of view, I mean, Joke's on me entering this video based on the title and thinking it was about storytelling. at the end of the day the author's goal is to make an entertaining story so that it gets read, but yes, authors are human too, and make mistakes, Akutami is NOTORIOUSLY bad at math and picturing numbers, but at the same time obssessed with mathematical concepts, he even acknowledges that having Maki catch that bullet was a mistake, finding out how fast are bullets is not hard, and they're very often well avobe Mach 3, hence the inconsistency. I want to agree with you and you make good points, but you're approaching from the "appeal to real life physics" side, it's that whole "objects in real life cant move faster than light therefor Goku can't" type of argument and... man, that's what fiction is for, the idea is to be able to imagine it, and just while you're reading it, suspend your disbelief, and believe that it's real. "Goku is Figthing Cell as 9 octillion times the speed of light, i can't keep up with their movements!", its just an amusing thought! it's really entertaining trying to picture it in your brain Attack pottency is an entirely fictional concept and I don't know who you might be talking to who believes otherwise, but more than an excuse i feel its more of an attempt at accommodating the fact that we're talking about cartoons, In One Piece, Usopp is for all intents and purposes a regular normal human guy, and he gets hit in the face with a 4 ton bat which cracks his skull, and he survives, and is even able to continue fighting for a bit after, and that's not lazy writting, One piece is just straight up cartoony with its physics, and by that point we've been through enough funny stretchy shenanigans that we can believe that usopp, a cartoony but regular guy, can survive getting attacked like that, hell, I'd even believe it takes much more effort creating a mood in order to condition the reader to believe that.
Fantastic comment. I love everything you mentioned here, especially with One Piece's cartoonish conditioning. That show can be pretty brutal at times, so it does feel weird to have such a silly cartoonish side to it, yet it works well. Plot heavily influences power.
Little bro so ahh decroded he can't comprehend the incredulous nature of bifurcating the concepts of power into attack potency and destructive capacity and how this impacts the quality of series' writing 💀💀💥
@@MidnightRants How did you even come to that conclusion, lmao? Your whole rant in this video about how AP "doesn't make sense because it violates the principle of conservation of energy" is straight up mentioned within every scaling wiki on the Fandom , even on one of the worst wikis-the VS Battles Wiki . AP is a specific concept used in power scaling to try to gauge a character's strength despite inconsistencies in the story. It provides a straightforward baseline for character scaling. How is that hard to understand? Look , i recognize that the power scaling community is a unique space ( by that, i mean mentally r----). The people there often have nothing better to do; they debate online about which character would win over another based on whatever scaling system they use, regardless of their “hax” . Honestly, that's why I left power scaling-I found it a waste of time. After reading a ton of Marvel comics to try scaling (since Marvel is my favorite universe), I just got bored of it. Your statement about AP having any impact on the quality of a story’s writing is just so funny. lol , AP has nothing to do with analyzing stories and doesn’t affect storytelling at all. It’s a fan-made concept used strictly in a different field. It’s not the fans’ fault if the author can’t maintain consistent writing or visuals, so they try to make sense of it all to scale the characters within the verse . I support the slander to the com , but if you gonna slander them , then pls adress your points correctly 😭.
@@cesaredits6726 In all seriousness you've strawmanned me here; 1. that isn't the entire rant of my video that's one specific point I made among many, 2. the wikis specifically I did not say made the ac = real argument, 3. the effects of ap does affect stories (creating inconsistencies and such) but even then the main point of the vid is just me ranting about it for blue balling me out of cool big boom booms, 4. I mention that it is the author's fault but also the power scalers also are separately at fault for different ap based things like I mentioned in the video.
The problem isn't power scaling, its a hobby people have cause its FUN, the problem is *inconsistency in the writting* Its why people are annoyed when characters like The Flash are constantly nerfed so the plot can happen the way the writers want it to. Changing the characters to fit the story instead of the other way around. But usually people don't take it too seriously unless some serious tomfackery is happening in the story.
The flash isn't constantly nerfed that is how he normal acts the feet's are impressive because there not normal what he can do, I do believe the villians in cw can beat the flash why that is what happens in every episode it makes perfect sense that the guy who can multiple can over whelm the flash, the run faster then you ever did to win is the outline at the end he got stronger to win as he was weaker before
5:25 I was just watching a Krillin vs vid where they said the same thing. Even though Krillin has never slightly been shown to be able to do it in the show.
ok but why, why would they show krillin doing that in a show, they already showed piccolo blow up a moon with a casual ki blast a million sagas ago and krillin's much stronger than that in-universe. Thats how fiction works, plot over perfect feat consistency.
Because he can? I mean he is galaxy level already but why would he even try? He is a human he doesn't want to blast the solar system in under a minute and the show doesn't wanna do that?
I agree. As someone who's been in and out of the community, powerscalers take it to a comical level of stupidity. The attempts to one-up one another is even more comical, with Naruto powerscalers trying to downplay One Piece characters (to which the world is nonsensical as is) by saying that Kizaru's light isn't real light because it's "destructive." I had to explain to people, more times than I like to count, how light carries momentum. It's no use, honestly. But... unfortunately, I feel like the joke is on you. The fact that you made this video proves that they not only live in your head rent free, but some anonymous discord group is going to hound your every waking moment to debate you. Before I even got sucked into that kind of mess I immediately, and correctly, came to the conclusion that it is _not_ worth it. There is a subset of powerscalers that understand what you're exactly preaching, and you just needlessly attacked an entire population from a high horse - and those guys just do it because it's fun to find out how whacky the authors intend for their characters to be.. Like, I get it, it's insane, but you're like (checking the first Goku vs Superman death battle video...) 11 years way, way, WAY too late and now you painted a target on your back. For nothing.
3:38 there’s a this guy on tiktok who keeps scaling tobey maguire spider-man to beat people like hancock, superman, thor..etc & it’s so annoying because you know “realistically” if they fought peter would lose no hesitation.
5:39 The modern Doom lore is so stupid and completely misses the point. Doom lore was never meant to be taken seriously and Doomguy was just supposed to be a goofy crazy soldier guy who is good at shooting demons, his backstory of wanting revenge cause his rabbit died is shallow and ridiculous because thats literally the point. He was never supposed to be this hyper OP god slaying universe buster that went from a normal dude to a blessed son of satan that has a tragic backstory because of his wife dying or some crap. People complain about Mary Sues but "the epic and radicool doomSLAYA" is far more obnoxious in this regard then Batman or Superman ever were
@GeorgeDCowley That would work if it was like the classic games where they arent meant to be taken seriosuly at all but eternal is tryhard to the point where its just silly and almost cringeworthy. The lore and cutscenes make it very clear that it takes itself very seriously and isnt just a joke which is why its funny that the game acts like its the coolest shit ever.... kinda like how 40k started out as a joke that went over most people's heads
basically if your strong characters don't feel as justifiably strong as baki hanma and don't utilize half his strength [pp training included], you're probably doing something wrong
Hanma baki is such bad example he seems so unrealistically op even if he isn't much because of the bs the story ironically puts and power creep in show is crazy to
Have never dealt with this when it comes to power scaling. I just view it as "There is a strategy for everything. And some characters just don't have that strategy."
I disagree in some stuff, the point in planet level destruction is very clear in dbz for example, vegeta came to earth and if goku loses the entire earth goes with him... freeza destroys namek and this drives a good part of the plot of the arc... kid buu destroys the planet when he appears and kills a lot of the main characters, etc... theres a lot of moments where the character being planet level makes a massive difference in the story... It all started with roshi blowing up the moon to make goku destransform from oozaru form. Of course, in other stories a lot of times it doesn't make much differences indeed...
I agree if you are power scaling fiction you have to look in the story if it consistent for characters do have the power to create or destroy celestial bodies and cosmic structures because people make up tiers like Hyperversal and Outerversal to put their characters in which make no sense if something like a Omniverse doesn’t exist in the narrative of the author doesn’t know about what is power scaling
Some power scalers make up other things like appeal to reality which make no sense because the most common thing about fiction and reality from a physical perspective is that they both are typically depicted as having three spatial dimensions of length width and height just like our world
9:30 that was so fucking funny that power scaler claims to use physics to calculate feat but actually don't understand physics at all, like catching a pistol is something Bruce Lee could do yet they somehow mental gymnastics their ass to hyper sonic, and even worse is scene of "teleportation effect" they straight up treat it like actually teleportation when it's just to show the character being fast and vanish
Bruce Lee could in fact not catch a bullet centimeters from his face while resting last minute, scientifically speaking. It’s pretty funny how a powerscaler that uses physics to calculate feats didn’t understand physics at all.
The special pleading/double standard of power scalers is crazy, if we normies try to make sense of fiction using real life logic and physics they will call it "appeal to reality fallacy" (yes they say shit like that) but if they want to know how powerful a feat is OF COURSE THEY USE REAL WORLD LOGIC AND PHYSICS and that's not a fallacy somehow.
@@racuncai it's very dependent on what exactly you are referring to with those terms as many misuse them. Appeal to reality fallacy is just when you assume things in a fictional universe MUST adhere to the real world which is not always the case. "Good" powerscalers will use real world physics to try and calculate different feats but if certain physics or structures of that fictional universe are different then they have to adjust for those facts in some way when making arguments and calculations.
Broth: I would, not that my author can animate. . . I would show you something. . . but your power level is through the roof. Also, the audience is itself and many people, but you're right.
17:00 one problem; KI isn't real, trying to apply real world physics to what amounts to magic is silly. Now for non-magical actions/ characters that are more grounded and realistic I agree with this sentiment. I would agree with this argument if ki blast did follow real world physics.
If you believe death battle, almost every character can move and fight a million times faster than light and destroy the universe thousands of times with a single punch.
The purpose of depicting characters with cosmic or dimensional power goes beyond literal display. Higher-dimensional power levels in fiction often serve as narrative and thematic tools rather than purely visual spectacles. In many fictional stories, cosmic power is not just a physical trait but a narrative device that speaks to themes of responsibility, isolation, and humanity. A big example of this is Superman. Superman's god-like abilities aren’t just for show; they highlight the tension between his power and his restraint, his moral conflicts, and his unique perspective on humanity. EVEN IF he does not use his full strength to destroy planets, his capacity for such power affects his inner conflicts and the weight of his choices. Actually a lot of philosophers like Friedrich Nietzsche and his concept of the Übermensch (or “Overman”) aligns here. The Übermensch is a symbol of potential, moral complexity, and the struggle to transcend ordinary limits, not a literal figure wreaking havoc on everything in existence. Also depending on the execution, high-level characters, such as those classified as 4D or cosmic, often add depth to the world-building by suggesting a larger, layered universe. Their existence implies that there are stakes and scales beyond what is immediately visible, adding layers of intrigue, awe, and potential to the story. This aligns with David Lewis’s possible worlds theory, where different realms can coexist with unique internal structures. Characters on cosmic scales extend the “possible worlds” within the story, expanding its potential and reinforcing a layered setting that is felt, if not always seen. Series like Dragon Ball, Bleach, or Doctor Strange, high-dimensional or god-like entities are rarely depicted using their full power, yet their mere presence establishes a sense of scale, mystery, and hierarchy within the universe. This contributes to the world-building by framing a layered reality where greater powers exist beyond the ordinary characters’ comprehension. Cosmic power usually allows authors to explore philosophical questions about existence, knowledge, and perception. For example, 4D characters can raise questions about the nature of time, reality, and cause and effect-concepts that challenge readers on an intellectual level. Scientists and theories like Hugh Everett’s many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, which posits infinite, branching universes, provides a powerful framework for these themes. By suggesting characters who can influence or even exist across dimensions, authors can examine ideas of free will, determinism, and alternate possibilities-even if these powers are not visually depicted. A good example of this is Marvel's Infinity Gauntlet story arc, for example, has cosmic entities that rarely display their full power. Instead, they serve as symbols of boundless potential, ethical dilemmas, and the inherent risk of wielding infinite power. Not showing a character’s full power can be a deliberate artistic authorial choice, one that adds tension and intrigue to the story. The potential of characters who are cosmically powerful but restrained keeps the audience engaged with the mystery of their capabilities. When a character’s power is left partially unseen, it contributes to the story’s suspense and offers a deeper payoff when (and if) that power is revealed. In this way, their strength is part of the plot’s tension, not a mere spectacle. AN AMAZING EXAMPLE OF THIS is One Punch Man, Saitama’s overwhelming power isn’t about the destruction he could cause but rather the existential crisis he faces because of it. The focus is on how such power shapes him internally, not on the direct impact on his surroundings. This restraint can add layers of complexity to both the character and the plot. Characters with god-like or dimensional power often function as symbols of larger ideas, such as the potential for creation, destruction, and transcendence. They represent boundaries beyond ordinary human limitations, embodying ideals or fears. According to the philosopher Plato and his theory of forms, abstract, ideal versions of concepts exist even if they are not fully embodied. In this way, higher-dimensional characters symbolize abstract ideals-ideas of infinity, existence, or moral absolutes-rather than merely demonstrating raw power. An example of this is Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, Dr. Manhattan’s god-like abilities are rarely used to their full extent, but his mere presence raises questions about detachment, human emotion, and morality. His powers function as symbols of ideas much larger than their literal demonstration, adding profound meaning to the story even without constant displays of his full capabilities.
You are referencing dimensional tiering, a concept which is completely pseudoscientific; extra spatial dimensions do not cause infinite or beyond infinite power properties due to an extraordinary number of factors. The concept of dimensional tiering was born with HP Lovecraft, popularised further by Grant Morrison and then popularised in power scaling circles by UA-camrs and sites like vsbattlewiki. All fiction based people and communities bastardising scientific ideas to wank the power levels of fictional characters. Dimensional tiering misunderstands geometry, how quantities (scalar and vectors) function, and bastardises string theory. String theory for instance does not agree with the fiction writer born concept of dimensional tiering anymore than the theory that the Earth is round agrees with the pseudoscientific idea that the Earth is flat. You’ve raised some interesting points but the core of your message is predicated on genuine pseudoscience. Unfortunately the topic is extremely deep, I plan on debunking it fully in the future, perhaps even make a full documentary into the very interesting history of dimensional tiering pseudoscience, but I am not applying all that energy into debunking a single comment’s allusion to it. Again you raise some interesting ideas, but they are predicated on a vsbattlewiki idea that states that the physical embodiment of autism would scientifically have the power to punch the universe out of existence more than infinity times over, dimensional tiering is perhaps the maddest and most interesting pseudoscience created by man and it has developed beyond even the infamously scientifically inept Lovecraft’s wild imagination. Even ignoring all the dimensional tiering stuff; your arguments do not deconstruct mine. Characters restraining their power is handy plot device as you mention, but that fact exists irrelevant of my arguments. If a character doesn’t feel powerful then to the audience they aren’t powerful, your core examples being One Punch Man and Superman who are characters which actually do constantly show off constantly bombastic earth rending feats is quite funny in this respect. Characters being cosmically, unfathomably powerful is also great for writing stories with messages of higher ideas, but this also doesn’t disagree with anything I have said in this video, I love Dr Manhattan as much as the next guy and I can FEEL how powerful he is, and thus feel his power-based plight better, because of the outlandish feats he showcases.
Again, you do raise some good points for cases where not showing a character's full power is a good thing but the general thesis of the video still holds firm; the vast majoroity of the time attack potency is just lazy writing, not an exploration of higher themes or a device used to incite mystery. Of course there are exceptions to the lazy writing truth, but these are exceptions that prove the rule, as they use power, or in this case a lack of showcasing said power, in a unique and interesting way.
@@MidnightRants It isn't pseudoscience, dimensional tiering is based on scientific theories, purely hypothetical theories, your dismissal of dimensional tiering and cosmic power as “pseudoscientific” fundamentally misinterprets both the scientific and philosophical frameworks these concepts draw from. Fiction doesn’t aim to literally mirror science but to use it as a metaphor for higher ideals; like Nietzsche’s Übermensch explores transcending human limitations, cosmic characters embody restraint, moral conflict, and an understanding of humanity beyond brute destruction. And just how Plato’s theory of forms speaks to the presence of abstract ideals that can’t be fully manifested in the physical world, higher-dimensional beings in fiction symbolize concepts like infinity, transcendence, or justice, adding depth rather than mere spectacle. You also claim restrained power makes characters feel weak, Alfred Hitchcock’s concept of suspense - the “bomb under the table” - demonstrates that implied power can heighten tension and engagement precisely by being restrained, as with Saitama or Dr. Manhattan, whose powers provoke thought rather than bombastic displays. Mathematically, dimensional tiering isn’t a distortion but an extension, inspired by real theories like Hausdorff dimensions, which show how entities can operate beyond typical three-dimensional constraints, illustrating characters who transcend normal perception. Your focus on visual feats oversimplifies these ideas, ignoring how cosmic powers resonate with ancient storytelling traditions where myths, from Greek gods to Hindu deities, symbolized incomprehensible forces; cosmic power isn’t about showy visuals but serves as a narrative tool to explore responsibility, existence, and reality itself.
"Fiction doesn’t aim to literally mirror science" HAHAHAHA EVERY TIME! Every time I point out the mad pseudoscientific absurdity of dimensional tiering the entire argument changes from "it's a real science!" to something like "it's just ficiton bro it doesn't have to be scientific!" "inspired by real theories like Hausdorff dimensions" Yup, it inspired ficiton authors to write interesting magic systems. Hausdorff dimensions, string theory, basic geometry, none of these support the pseudoscientific idea of dimensional tiering anymore than the theory that the Earth is round supports the pseudoscientific idea of flat Earth theory. Dimensional tiering is a bastardisation of dimensional properties just like the flat Earth is a bastardisation of Earth. Flat Earth theory wouldn't exist without the Earth, dimensional tiering wouldn't exist without string theory, that doesn't mean dimensional tiering is a real science.
@@MidnightRants Brother, you are conflating dimensional tiering with literal, empirical science, which misunderstands the purpose of fiction and theoretical models in storytelling. Dimensional tiering at its core is a conceptual framework, much like metaphor or symbolism in literature, that draws on advanced mathematical ideas to explore abstract ideals. just because fiction adapts theories for narrative depth doesn’t make them “flat Earth” equivalents, instead it uses scientific inspiration to shape complex characters and universal concepts, as Nietzsche’s Übermensch or Plato’s forms represent transcendence beyond immediate reality. you laughed off fiction’s aim to “mirror science,” but countless works of fiction, from Star Trek to The Matrix, use speculative science to reflect social and philosophical questions - not to mirror exact equations. IN FACT, Plato’s allegories and Nietzsche’s concepts both rely on hypothetical ideas to explore human ideals, not strict literalism. Also, saying dimensional tiering is just a "bastardisation" of Hausdorff dimensions just overlooks how dimensional tiering is used to further build a story’s layered reality. Exactly like Gödel’s incompleteness theorems demonstrate limits in mathematical systems without invalidating mathematics. Higher-dimensional frameworks in fiction similarly explore metaphysical boundaries: they’re an imaginative extension that acknowledges scientific theory without needing to prove it. David Lewis’s possible worlds theory explains this perfectly, showing that fictional worlds operate with distinct internal logics to explore possibilities and themes. Like brother, dismissing dimensional tiering for not being “real science” ignores how it allows for themes like responsibility, cosmic awe, and inner conflict - not “magic” but structured abstraction. Additionally, Alfred North Whitehead’s philosophical concept of abstraction highlights that the purpose of such frameworks is to represent reality's deeper truths, not literal scientific assertions. Lastly, you bring up good points, but your comparison to flat Earth theory is off base: flat Earth proponents deny observable reality, while dimensional tiering acknowledges science as a foundation for creating speculative but internally consistent narratives. In fiction, dimensional tiering’s appeal lies in its capacity to convey infinite potential and complex character dynamics, much like H.P. Lovecraft’s beings, which suggested existential limits and humanity’s place in an unknowable universe, yet didn’t rely on literal scientific proof. These cosmic characters represents ideals of moral responsibility and restraint by getting inspiration from how us humans are fascinated by power beyond our comprehension, not a literal display, but an exploration of the philosophical weight of infinite potential.
Attack Potency can be fairly accurate Somethings which cause massive collateral damage can’t harm things which other things which don’t can Take for an example a Grenade vs an armored tank not being very affective But a powerful anti tank rifle being able to penetrate right through when used at close range
I never understood why authors escalate danger by upping raw power, when there's a million ways to explain that x is stronger than y because of skill. Like you can literally INVENT techniques that make your character fight smarter or make them better at predicting the enemy. Raw power amps should be rare. Not only that, they should be marginal. Like, in Dragonball for example, characters don't gain 5% or 10% extra power between arcs, no, they multiply their power by 500 times, like why???
Actually one thing I noticed about powerscaling which is actually funny is how they scale characters to concepts that don't even exist or things beyond the human mind💀 Examples are, Hyperversal Megaversal Extraversal Omniversal And all the while, mist of them are barely even star level.(the rest would likely just have very impressive feats)
“Power Scaling” and “Shipping” are natural outcomes of fandoms dealing with supernatural fiction however pushed too far it becomes “brain rot.” When power scaling is pushed from “fun stimulating engagement in the source material” to “my daddy can beat up your daddy pissing contests” then we’ve lost the plot (literally); it’s all I care about personally (the quality of writing). For a great example of this look at “Homelander vs (insert daddy here)” it’s a great litmus test for brain dead. “One Punch Man” is a great example of how “power scaling” is trash.
The scene where Saitama comically chases a mosquito but is unable to catch it then the mosquito boss lady appears and Saitama easily one-shots her that perfectly captures what comic books are nowadays, inconsistent powerscaling nonsense. You have these idiot writers wanking superman to be God then remember they have to write a story with this overpowered abomination which leads to even more ass pulls like "he's holding back" (it's the same as "ki control")
The thing about the second amendment, is it was written at a time when government (British government, especially) was considered "the enemy", and it was generally thought that if the government was unjust, it was a citizens duty to revolt. Also, an armed populace is harder for invaders to conquer than an unarmed one. It was all about giving people the power to fight back against the government - something the British could benefit from.
_Commenting this before I watch the video, so don't kick me if anything I say is already said, explained, or argued against._ Whether a character is Wall level or Omniversal, the only thing that matters for shock and awe is theatrics. And a lot of people use that to sneer at characters Planetary and up, but my opinion is... who cares? (Yeah, powerscalers do, but they as a whole still like characters regardless of attack potency, durability, feats, etc despite what it can seem from the _very_ vocal minority). If a Wall level character looks cool doing Wall level stunts, then it's cool. If an Omniversal, 5D character looks cool doing Wall level stunts, then... that's also cool. Again, what matters is theatrics. You can't tell me people weren't painting their room white when Saitama split the clouds with a punch, even when he jumped from the Moon back to Earth (a much more physically demanding feat by orders of magnitude in the time frame he did it) in the _same fight._ People also tend to associate higher levels of power and a vertical power system with bad writing when that is far from the truth. For as many stories as there are with "my number is bigger [citation needed]," there are just as many with "I poisoned you, which will come into effect... about now-ish!" and "we're 1v1ing and exchanging blows, but now _you_ are the one with arbitrarily less stamina!" and "I know you spent 39 years training (it took 3 seasons), but I win off of one trick because realism and plot extension!" For the third time, to remind everyone, theatrics are king. And, yes, writing is also king. Regardless of if someone can break a cinder block _or_ manually stop the flow of time, neither means jack if the writing is subpar or the animation/visual effects aren't up to snuff. People tend to be harsher on stronger power systems because the villains suddenly _need_ to try to destroy the planet/galaxy/universe at that point, but there are a million ways to easily explain past it (for example, Dragon Ball, the king of "vertical power scaling bad," has multiple scenes explaining that power ~= speed, and smaller AoE attack = more potent and faster technique. So an energy attack capable of destroying planets wouldn't always be viable since the user has to either expand the attack's AoE and sacrifice speed or potency - both allowing the protag to easily intercept it and knock it away - or take forever to charge it up which would also put themselves at risk by being in the blast radius after expending themselves). This also isn't to completely excuse vertical power systems, since they _do_ come with a ton of flaws and need a bit more effort put in to work effectively, but neither approach is as cut and dry as people try to make them. Horizontal power system =/= good, and vertical power systems don't need Shakespearean writing skills to make enjoyable media out of.
Tell me how would you feel if the Flash after running around the world in under a second got hit with a bullet while saving someone, or was unable to chase down someone after they turned a corner despite nothing be there to block his line of sight. If you are like me and care about even the mildest amount of internal consistency you would be mildly annoyed. How do you solve such an issue??? Basic powerscaling. Not that bs use irl physics to calculate speed stuff just simple A>B>C so A>C
Saitama got so piwerful in his series that his sneeze deleted the gas on jupiter. One fixed this by reverting his power to be fore the fight, but if this was dragon ball he would just live on planet again and be chilling. If we just use real life scaling saitama just beats about everyone due to that sneeze. Obviously thats not how it works in the powerscaling scene. Somehow people with infinite strength dont move a blood cell and destroy existance like ininify means. Its infinite and the smallest amount of infinite is infinite the universe is gone
That point about characters using guns is one of the most idiotic complaints I've heard from anti-scalers. Swords are more primitive than guns and I doubt you have a problem with Dante swinging a magical demon blade around but for some reason when he starts blasting you think that's automatically some street-level activity. He didn't buy his guns at Walmart.
i feel like powerscalers need to learn the difference between energy, force, and pressure before they start yapping about how gokus kamehameha doesnt blow up planets everytime it is used
Multiversal being that don't blow up things that are smaller than multiversal is not the powerscaling community's fault, it's the authors. Also the AP argument is you complaining about the solution to your own argument.
Another copium argument. Also why's it that for db characters, yall need a laundry list of explanations just to prove a character is multiversal or above while for comics, literally one out of context scan is enough despite 100s of other scans contradicting the previously supposedly "multiversal scan" lol...
@@shawtank6912One context scan is also enough for DB. Just pull up Goku and Beerus clash. Also it’s not copium when it’s literally canon. Nice try, but maybe you should debate some more.
@@coolbeans107db has so many instances of universal-multiversal or beyond feats like buuhan collapsing dimensions, goku beerus, zamas becoming the timeline, Zeno erasing it, mechi becoming one with the multiverse, the dark dragons flying through all of space and time and threatening to enter the real world, garlic jr destroying the dead zone which is a hyperspace, gogeta broly destroying dimensions, prometheus merging all jump worlds into a a single multiverse amd goku's spirit bomb forcing him to retreat, janemba warping the entire otherworld, vegeta breaking out of time chamber in which the past, present and the future intersect, ssj3 goku shaking the Kai realm which is stated to transcend dimensions, supreme Kai of time creating an infinite dimensional realm, jiren shaking the void of infinite nothingness etc
This vid got some real damn interesting feedback from the power scalers so I’ll respond to my favourite sentiments here (I’m on mobile plz excuse my grammar my oomfie lil kittens :3):
“It’s just a hobby bro it’s not that deep” - I’m making fun of your hobby and there’s nothing you can do to stop me nuh nicky nuh nuh hehehe 😝
“Ki control is canon to dragon ball actually!!” - This is really interesting to me so I’m going to make a video analysing every instance in dragon ball where fans say “Ki control” is proven to exist, all of the examples I got in the comments were straight up lies or accidental misrememberings; taking similar ideas out of context like the Goku vs Beerus clash, but hey who knows ya’ll might be right, I’ll do a lot of research and make a full video dissecting the concept.
“Doom Slayer and Dante’s guns aren’t regular guns!” - I think some of em are tho? You can unlock better shteez as you progress and there’s some lore about demon energy being infused with bullets but overall this really doesn’t affect the point; the idea of bullets hurting demons so therefore every single one of Doom Slayer’s punches is canonically power equivalent to the energy needed to blow up every Doom map infinity times over is absolutely bat shit insane lol. It’s just really funny brain rot, I luv you guys.
“Attack potency is real actually!” - …yes, that’s- that’s the point. A lot of these arguments really highlight some of ya’ll didn’t watch the vid and got mad anyway. This video is about (among some other things) why attack potency happens, and why I don’t like it.
“Inconsistent power scaling is entirely the author’s fault.” - Power scaling is an inconsistent practice in its own right, plus there’s a couple kinds of power scaling (author scaling and fan scaling) and both have their intricacies, flaws and problems. But even taking these comments at face value I actually mention in the video the fact that authors don’t care about mathematics, I agree with you on the fact that authors mess this shit up, why ya’ll going for my throat 😅 My argument wasn’t that authors should be scientifically accurate 100% of the time and should employ hardcore fan approved power scaling in all their works, it was that fans shouldn’t expect authors to hardcore power scale in the first place! People malding over the Mach 3 thing saying “the author admitted he was wrong actually” YEESSSSSS! That’s what I’m saying! You’re understanding!!!!
Some of the detractors for this vid have brought up some really interesting and well thought out points (don't you ever think I'm saying I don't want critiques at all, I'm a new creator, I CRAVE critique), but a vast portion of this comment section is 30% people calling me a dumb bitch, 30% “it’s just a lil hobby we’re all nice really ❤” and 40% accidentally or purposefully misinterpreting all of the things I say and comparmentalising this into a little "gotcha!"
I’m still early in my UA-cam career so I’m learning a lot; no matter how well I research my shteez a good portion of the communities I dissect will hate my guts, but I’m going to get better and better (I SHALL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE MUHAHAHA) at this so I hope I’ll be able to produce something each and every one of you can enjoy eventually.
Don't know about DMC but yeah doomguy guns are conventional guns with the occasional futuristic or esoteric one like the ballista or BFG but most of them are stuff that we have IRL like the shotguns, heavy machineguns and chainsaws the argument that they're not normal guns is based on a statement from the devs taken out of context where they say that he confirms doom guns are magically enhanced when all he actually says is that the quad damage power-up is Canon and not a game mechanic
This video isn't a dissection of the community, it's just you hating on it for no reason than you being bitter. Of course the community will not like you.
@@thelordz33 40%
@@MidnightRants I do you can make a badass overpowered planet buster who never shows it. Like have a pacifist monk for the first half never throw a punch then when he does it makes massive shock waves and he says sorry and never does it again. Also I hate the reverse power scalers saying thats a no limits fallacy for Gods in fiction, We don't have to show omnipotence if the story implys it they might be till proven otherwise, can two difference characters be omnipotence yes if they exist in separate stories.
@@thelordz33 Midnight probably encountered a few Gokutards then assumed every power scaler are like them.
Power scaling has made talking about characters like the flash so annoying
I swear if i hear one more guy saying: "this character x is small galaxy level and 60x faster then light" then i am gonna lose it fr
@@justreadberserkd1021"this character, tom, is above reality and moves at speed which can't be measured. Still loses to Jerry tho."
The only thing i like is when it causes "he can move faster than teleporting and 1 second is always like 3 days for him, he looses to baby with regular gun" moments @@Blackvoidwithwhiteside7193
@@Blackvoidwithwhiteside7193Nah Tom Solos
I mean that’s because the flash is infuriatingly inconsistent there’s no powerscaling there just annoyance at how the fastest man alive got tagged by a dude with a gun. Literally how?!?!?
Power scalers: Sonic The Hedgehog can run at 18 times the speed of light
Sonic Gameplay: I wonder if I can shave 7 seconds off of this 500 meter corridor.
Sonic gameplay after the half kilometer corridor:
**escapes a black holes for 30 seconds by pressing x*
It’s not physically possible to make something move that fast…yet
He's also able to be perceived by Doctor Eggman and can create robots that can match his speed
@@TwistedLullabies nah bro eggman is just built different lol
@@TwistedLullabies Don't forget that Eggman can also keep up with sonic as well, because he can perceive and react to FTL movements. Which makes Eggman a galaxy level character, at the very least
Something I love about jjk is that it’s pretty much the antithesis to this problem. Power scaling wise, outside of some absolute bullshit, the strongest characters can’t even wipe out a city. Yet when a character like Toji or Sukuna comes around you FEEL how strong they are and they’re terrifying because the story generally does a great job at showcasing their power when realistically as far as anime go, they’re super weak. They’re just creative about it. To people who can’t outrun a car, a man who you blink and lose track of is fucking terrifying, even if he can’t split continents by sitting down.
Pretty sure gojo wiped out the majority of shinjuku
Jesus Christ loves you
@@joshuaharper8957 but can he beat Goku?!?!?
@@MidnightRantshe wins no diff
@@MidnightRants absolutely
Powerscaling is the masculine form of shipping.
Yeah and we like it that way.
@@Lordmaster135 lets all have our own cringe
Are you saying men can't like romance🤨🤨🤨
Fandom shippers trying hard not reveal their own fantasies...
No, but seriously, this makes no sense. You're just saying you see a weird sexual dynamic in this. Way to tell on yourself, bro.
@@l-x-10 On that we agree
"If you have ever known the pleasures of a woman's touch or the joys of touching grass, it's probably your first time hearing it......" 😭😭😭bro why are you attacking your target audience???
He had to in order to really get people to pay attention
@@PhillipRubio578 and it worked
Well why else are they called "target"
He just speaking facts
As a *firm* believer of attack potency, you would *never* catch me arguing that it is a real, scientific concept, as with powerscaling as a whole. We’re talking about unreal, often blatantly unscientific fictional universes… trying to use actual science to gauge how powerful some of these characters are would be an utter nightmare.
People trying to project real world physics onto fictional stories when the characters start unambiguously moving faster than light: 💀💀💀
The problem with powerscaling is how to you form a baseline create some standard as a basis for comparing characters from different stories that have different rules. People try use real life as a basis because it is a fair standard, but it just results in rediculous conclusions.
Thank you, that's always been something that's annoyed me about power scaling, even during my "Powerscaler" phase.
I hate when people try to use real world science in power scaling. If we're gonna say people that dodge lasers are lightspeed reaction do not try bringing real world physics into it. If a person dodges lightning don't telling me how electricity is attracted to something or yadda yadda. Comics/cartoons/anime/fiction has people lifting infinity and running faster than light. Things that are physically impossible or just mean they kill all life on earth by using their powers once
Exactly you said it perfectly
I like to call this the Chuunibyou problem, where characters in fiction are described to be incredibly powerful, because it sounds cool, but little thought is given to the practical implications, so they don't look as powerful as they should.
This is part of the reason that I like One Punch Man, people in that universe aren’t the most powerful characters in fiction or anything but when their attacks are powerful we actually get to see the damage it can do😂
Powerscaling in the OPM universe essentially boils down to: "survived x amount of punches from saitama"
Powerscaler: “Superman has an infinite mass strength in the book”
Readers: “So he can punch as hard as the writer wants him to punch”
Here is the narrative point of giving him that infinite power so when he encounter kryptonite or magic and loses the power there are stakes. As know he has to fight the guy he beat easy without his powers and the roles are flipped
Power scaling is pretty fun tbh. Shame you had to face the bad aspects of it
Power scaling is only fun when used to scale two characters from the same story that never interacted and try to figure out who would come out on top based on their opponents and if they had any similar opponents to compare their performance with. Otherwise it's not useful at all.
@@ether2275gaming is not useful at all yet we still do it
Sometimes we do things because they're fun
There doesn't need to be deeper meaning to it
@@Sappysappster Yes, I don't deny that, read my previous comment again and you'll see how I said that powerscaling can be fun. But overall there comes a point where it gets out of hand and too ridiculous.
There comes a point where it turns into a dick measuring contest between the participants, trying to prove that their favorite character can totally beat the other's favorite by any means necessary, even by defying all logic and pre established lore.
Like, I've had people try and prove to me that Spiderman is somehow stronger than Invincible (from the Invincible series) which makes absolutely no sense. But using very shitty scaling and the logic behind attack potency they somehow make a silly argument that this is the case.
@Sappysappster
I wouldn’t compare it to playing video games. No one gets into long winded debates scales fictional characters to each other for fun.
They do it to “win” an argument. It’s like a sad dick measuring contest.
It can be fun to talk about how strong a character would be Irl but some people take it too seriously. Power scaling is still fun and shouldn't be treated like the damn plague.
Thank you someone go gets it!!
❤
Completely agree
Agree. Same with shipping.
The fundamental problem with powerscaling is, in my opinion, that powerscalers put *way* more thought into what they do than the writers themselves.
The example of this that comes to mind is when Seth the Programmer used a statement from Tetsuya Nomura about that one scene in Kingdom Hearts III where Sora changed the timeline to undo the Guardians' defeat several minutes prior to argue that Sora was complex multiversal.
Seth's logic made sense, but I highly doubt that Tetsuya Nomura was thinking about the complex math involved in recreating the multiverse from scratch.
thats not a problem tbh, of course the author puts less thoughts in the nuances than the fans. Powerscaling is just niche fan bikkering.
@@niloyabid2851 When I call it "the fundamental problem" I'm talking about why powerscaling is stupid and a waste of time. I'm not saying it's a problem with the way the stories are written.
@@HunterStiles651 i mean, when you think about it, most fiction is a waste of time devoid of any direction, id say it then comes down to how you want to waste your time thinking about a fiction, the charas, the plot, themes, or the powerlevels.
@@HunterStiles651 If you enjoy it, it's not a waste of time. I've spent about 30 years *deep* into powerscaling, to the point of spending hours on it nearly every day. Other than sleeping, I don't think there's *anything* I've spent more time on. I would not consider a single *second* of that time wasted, because I enjoyed all of it.
@@RedLordOfAlagadda You do you man. Just make sure you’re keeping up with other hobbies.
Powerscalling is a hobby, attack the concept all you wanr but in the end of the day its just a subchapter of the internet doing what they think is fun, sure some vs debaters get pissy but theyre only common when you actively look for them. I genuinely dont agree with the notion of "powerscallers are all jobless losers" Becauss that is attacking people for what they find fun. Its all just for fun, we like seeing how strong a fictional character is with real math. Sure its not physically possible but its fiction, its all up to interpretation
The most correct comment
So true, but i just dislike how often versus debating & powerscaling are lumped together as the same thing when people complain about the community around it.
Versus debates can get toxic fast, like "can he beat goku?/nobody beats goku"
Most of the time those videos are complaining about versus debaters getting pissy, but they just lump powerscalers as the same cause they dont see a difference.
I am so thankful that this video exists. This exact thing is what I've been trying to say to alot of people for ages.
The most recent example of an debate I had with an online UA-camr who powerscales, was with the feat of Sonic the Hedgehog from the games and IDW comic having immeasurable speed as he can causally run faster than time it self. I explained that it makes no narrative sense since the feats we always see him do to be something like speed of sound, you know, the thing he's known for, but he just kept saying just because it doesn't work narratively doesn't mean it disproves a feat, that is 100% head canon.
I wish they would use more common sense when scaling characters as at the end of the day, these characters exist to tell a story in their world, not just to be a power fantasy. If characters are as powerful as many power scales insist they are, the stories in those franchises just wouldn't work.
can people stop making powercalers up to be a bunch of cringy cry babies, sure some of us are like that, but that could be say for any internet community, we are just people that are having fun our own ways. but fun video though
this isn't a shortcoming or power scaling, all they do is follow the logic of the story, if it doesn't make sense it's because the story isn't logically consistant.
you can't both catch bullets and be way slower than bullets at the same time. it is normal to not like logical inconsistencies in fiction.
and that's the best kind of case when it's just inconsistent with real values of bullet speed worst case scenario they have slow bullets.
but sometimes character A is faster than character B even though B is faster than C who is faster than A.
and that's just bad writing.
ok but its usually way worse. like saying a character is light speed or something because they dodge lasers but then they take several episodes to go from one place to another.
or saying that a character is infinitely fast because it was mentioned in a throw away statement that a place was 'beyond time'(whatever tf that means) and it was sort of implied that they traveled that place if you squint at it kinda.
One thing is to have some inconsistencies, and another to make things up contradicting mostly everything, not only the story itself. And yes you can stop bullets if you are strong enough and if you have good reaction or are well positioned. As for the lasers, what bothers me is them trying to argue that every lasers goes at the speed of light, even if they are way diferent to our own, or even have no problem to say they are even faster. Having beams that go slower than the speed of light in fiction while being completly diferent to the actual thing is a foreing idea to them, yet having it be way faster is something they do not have a problem with. Thats because there is not actual logic, just excuses to wank them as much as posible. A good example of this is One Piece when characters like Kizaru exist and they clearly do not move faster than him. Same with Polnareff and the hanged man
You missed the point entirely.
@@danieltodorov7753 No, I focused on the ideas I am interested in rather than the whole theme of the video.
@@Dario-uj6qo maybe I haven't been exposed to the worst of it, but usually when I see that kind of wank it's when the character is compared to another one who is stronger, and it's more to make the point that there are no interpretation where the weaker character wins not that this interpretation is the most logical one.
There’s no such this as bad power scaling. The issue is bad writing. You don’t need to be a power scaler to understand a story’s inconsistencies in power levels is the WRITER’S fault. Power scalers simply apply logic to what’s shown on screen. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.
As someone who loves powerscaling for fun I feel the need to say that there are like two types of powerscaling. There’s what I like to call internal powerscaling which is scaling with in a self-contained story and then there’s external powerscaling which is powerscaling between fictional stories. Internal powerscaling is the important one that actually matters as it keeps a story consistent. I’m sure we’ve all been there watched the Flash outrun a bolt of lightning, stop a black hole, etc… and then he gets hit by a dude with a gun for no reason. That’s an example of when someone doesn’t use internal powerscaling it’s when a story doesn’t bother to follow its own internal logic. It’s essentially that A>B>C so A>C but sometimes a story will be weird and have C>A despite it making no sense. That is why I actually care about specifically internal powerscaling. It’s a way for authors and their audience to know stakes and is also the main reason the warf effect occurs. If the strongest guy in the group gets taken out then basic logic and internal powerscaling says that this new threat is also stronger than the other main characters meaning we need to take them seriously and be worried. Also it’s why you aren’t going to see like Krillin beat Beerus and if you did the entire fan base would have a meltdown because that wouldn’t make sense.
Authors care about telling a good story. Nobody cares about powerscaling except powerscalers.
The whole point of superhero comics is for a hero to overcome a villain that is usually superior to them in some way.
Case in point, if you powerscaled John Constantine against the things he goes up against, he loses every time, but due to wit and trickery, he finds a way to come out on top.
I personally don't see the appeal of reducing characters to D&D stat sheets.
except superman ..... somehow he is GOD and outscales every universe.
Superman is widely biased
Like they just do favoritism for him and dumb and numb other heroes who are supposed to be similar i.e Shazam and martial man hunter...
That's why I like invincible
It's power scaling is much more realistic than any version of DC animation or not
They scale very well
Take for instance the stupid fight against doomsday and Justin league members
Superman fought like he's the only superhero on dooms level while there's literally mm and we who can go on toe to toe
Especially mm everytime he just gets burned alive while Shazam who is a Kryptonian level character just gets knwcked around like a cat lol
@@caliginousmoira8565
@@caliginousmoira8565 Agreed. He really sets the diamond standard of being unfathomably op.
powerscaling still matters you don't want the character to progress to fast especially in a action comic where the fight matter.
@@jameslight4391 Yes powerSCALING matters, powershitting is the issue here.
Me being low planetary level makes perfect sense. I literally burned the earth, easily. Because I am basically an giant space menace. And my whole thing is being an pyro maniacal world destroyer. This is powerscaling.
Superman cannot even be called an superhero anymore because now he has literal infinite and now boundless feats more like an god. This bullshit is powershitting.
Sometimes, powerscalers remind me of that Syndrome quote
"And when everyone is super, no one will be."
Dude you're called midnight rants and this video wasnt even filmed during midnight or atleast a dark room, come on...
never watch Wendigoon, he's not even a real cryptid
@@MidnightRants Crazy, i thought he was..
@@MidnightRants But is he a goon(er)?
@@MidnightRants Counterpoint: you don't know that.
Ki control is just the fans terminology. The concept of ki control was actually explained in series. Vegeta talks about it during the Cell saga. I'm sure someone else has probably explained this in the comments though.
It's something that made Dead Mount Death Play feel novel. While characters in that series perform legitimately impressive feats, there's still a level of like "yeah, a human could achieve this", generally speaking. Then you encounter throughout the story these legitimately magical characters and realize like, they CAN meaningfully effect the structure of a building and it puts them on a level significantly higher than the prior "Tall dude with long sword who's good at fighting" without really changing the scope of the story.
I mean Ki control really isn't a fan made thing, the whole Beerus vs Goku fight universe destroying feat was literally about Goku not being able to control his output.
One thing I heavily agree with is on Doom Slayer and Kratos where they're scaled more on concepts rather then what they actually do during fights, the one I find funniest is when people make a character infinite speed cause they moved in a space without time.
One thing I really loved during the Broly movie is when they shattered dimensions actually showing the power behind their punches, as you said Dragon Ball characters really need to learn how to breathe in space so they can throw hands through planets, like when Beerus fought his brother.
Loved the video, I'll keep enjoying powers scaling though cause I have a simple brain and seeing big number against big number makes my monkey brain happy.
To be fair on the "timeless" thing, it's quite annoying when scalers go "oh no, it's undefined" when the very definition is that it's zero.
Half of those characters would be just energy eating crabs
10:11 Gege himself said that having Maki catch a bullet was too excessive and only did it because it looked cool
Power scalers explaining how Caseoh is capable of destroying planet Earth in mere seconds even by accident:
But that's the point, my friend. It's not that powerscalers are wrong-because they’re not. Catching a bullet is a feat that a speedster moving at Mach 3 couldn't replicate.
The issue lies with the writers, who are often inconsistent and struggle to maintain internal logic and consistency.
Some examples may seem silly to you, but that’s likely because you’re not focused on the math involved in those situations. But then, you get cases like Black Panther defeating the Silver Surfer with a headlock or Batman dodging an Omega Beam, and suddenly, the frustration of powerscalers becomes understandable.
This is a problem of careless writing; powerscalers just highlight the flaws.
And honestly, most powerscalers don’t really take it that seriously-it’s more of a fun hobby. They know the author might not be great with math, but they still enjoy the story.
Powerscaling logic is usually solid, and people rarely debunk it. However, since the conclusions sometimes clash with the world the writer intended, it can lead to some humorous critiques.
Batman dodging the omega beams is not an issue because it is a story and in stories the hero (usually) wins. The person who wins the fight is whoever the author wants to win either because of the plot, drama, themes, etc. There is no amount of fav character powerscaling wanking that can change that.
@@sam7559 Disagree hard on that. An author should make the universe internally consistent if it isn't a gag (this is the exception, jokes don't need to make sense in a conventional way). Wouldn't people be mad if Batman just woke one day and won in a race against a serious Flash? Maybe not. But many would if the logic used is just bad, like Batman just straight up being faster because he is fucking Batman.
Batman dodging an omega beam is cool until you think how the fuck the man with human level strength can just out maneuver something that can catch much faster characters like Superman. Do you believe that Batman can dodge things that are probably lightspeed (because they actually hit speedsters with ease, with the exception of the Flash) ? Do you think a human can do it even if they predict exactly what is happening? It's hype that batman dodged that! I'm not gonna lie about that! But! It also makes you think about how the fuck it happens and if the only logic is that the writter wanted it to happen... Then it just breaks immersion and, consequently, the stakes in the story.
If the writter doesn't have to care about the internal consistency of the universe they are working on, then the reader is left with an empty feeling that nothing matters, because the stakes never existed. The result was predermined from the very beggining and the journey to it is just something that doesn't matter at all.
@thalesgarcia6955 "The result was predermined from the very beginning" Yes, they always having been. Fiction writers aren't looking into a special window and then creating a documentary on what they see. Goku, Superman, Batman, they always win because the writer choose for them to win, not because they're writer did a complex math equation and determined that Freiza's punches can only blow up planets that are 95.68% percent of the size Goku can blow up.
@@sam7559 Yes, but it the job of the writter to hide that fact. The writter needs to create tension and just being obvious that there is no other reason for something to happen other than "it was written so" kills it.
Also, just to be clear, I'm not speaking of the author following equations and all that. I'm just talking about things that pass an extreme. Like a character that is just peak real life martial artist fighting hand to hand with creatures that are hypersonic and somehow winning (generic example, not talking about batman here).
Also, I don't believe in powerscaling characters from different stories. That is just for fun, but only that. Different universes, different rules and incompatible narrative makes for a poor combination in finding any logic in a discussion. There is no reason to take this seriously.
Internal universe consistency is the thing that matters to me not because of how much physics, math or whatever is broken, but because the writter previously convinced me of something to just say otherwise when its convenient. Batman and the omega beam is the perfect example, because the writter made me believe that batman is extremely weaker and slower than the rest of the justice league. The omega beam was convincing in it being undodgeable (except if your title is Flash). Then, somehow, the writter wants me to believe batman can dodge it just because he can predict it? I just can't and it kills the tension because from now on, the information the writter gives can be just negated on a whim.
@@sam7559 An author has absolute power, but this doesn't mean they should use it recklessly. If an author makes a character do something beyond their established capabilities without providing an explanation, it breaks the illusion of stakes. Part of the fun in an action story is watching how a character will succeed or fail against a challenge. The story becomes boring if the audience realizes the author is lazy and solves problems by ignoring the rules of their own work.
Restrictions, like 'Batman is just a human,' are boundaries for the writer and promises to the reader. These promises ensure the author won't resolve conflicts in arbitrary ways, making the story more engaging. They challenge the writer to find creative solutions within the framework they've established.
I enjoy a powerscaling vid from time to time but they definitely lose me when I hear “this character based on this one scene can obliterate the multiverse 10 trillion times over”
Excuse but what powerscaling are you watching to hear that?
@ Im mostly exaggerating of course.
Cannon does matter.I'm annoyed about the idea that you actually want every fight in Dragonball to be cataclysmic. It's a martial arts gag series, do i think most of the fighters in the series can destroy galaxies easily? yes but i love the story as well and the humor just as much as the power of the characters but their power wouldn't mean anything to anyone if it weren't for the story of how they got there at least we have some explanation other than they felt like it.
On the subject of Star Wars, I once got into a debate with someone who took that Vader quote - "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the force!" - absolutely literally.
Thus illustrating the cardinal sin of the power scaler: the fetishization of literalism and brute force over the metaphors and subtleties that make stories worth reading in the first place. The idea that the force CAN'T destroy planets, but remains more valuable or useful than something that CAN is infinitely more intriguing than the idea that Vader can just explode stars on a whim and has thus far chosen not to for no logical reason.
Power scalers seem to be unable to comprehend that there are people who aren't as fixated on spectacle as they are.
Powerscalers are also often overlooking feats like "faster than light". Not only do they sometimes apply that label because a character dodged a lightbeam looking attack (which visibly traveled slower than a bullet). But completely ignore the implications of it, while citing the laws of physics pften to make their point A.) Characters look at their opponents movements while if they travel faster than light, light reaches their retinas _slower_ than the attack, and even as an outside observer you'd only have 2 states reaching you. B.) The magnitude of a sonic boom created by breaking the sound barrier to that magnitude would be devastating, that's nothing to do with attack potency, that's just matter moving through a gas at a high speed. C.) At such speeds you'd be reaching time dilation in ridiculous ways.
The gun thing doesn't really make sense at least for example a character like Dante who very obviously doesn't have normal weapons
Who made his weapons ?
@danieltodorov7753 I wasn't sure but I just looked into it and apparently it's a special gunsmith named Nell from the novels who specifically made the guns for him so he can infuse his demonic energy in them so yeah their definently not normal guns.
@@projectmessiahlook those guns are made to kill demons only that's it. 😅
@@abhijeetgolder7535 I don't know if you read it or not but I looked into it and explained in my reply to the other dude
@@abhijeetgolder7535And the demons are really strong lmao. Actually read up on the lore before commenting.
I feel like powerscaling is important to have internally though. If you make a character sit specifically on some sort of pecking order and have someone above them lose a fight to the weaker character then you have to give a reason why the fight played out that way or you throw the audience’s suspension of disbelief
For most people its just a hobby in all honesty. Just fun to think about hypotheticals
Casual reminder that Dante has a hat that summons meteors and you think his guns are... regular pistols
To be fair, the meteors are made of blood orbs, so they are probably just summoned from a small distance around him.
What makes meteor deadly is their speed and their even with their speed they're city lvl in damage capacity.
Dawg the meteors aren’t even that big
@@rancorious7785Oh they big I tell you, not as big as your mom though.
Characters being strong is cool, inconsistency doesn't matter as long as the story is fun. I've never actually heard about the attack potency thing, it sounds dumb lol, but nonetheless, big numbers are fun so let power scalers do what they want, it doesn't really have any affect on the story considering that as you mentioned most writers don't give a shit about power scaling.
It makes those people less able to appreciate writing when all they care about is power and not the many other aspects of what makes stories resonate with us. It's not a complete tragedy, but it is a bad thing.
@@danieltodorov7753 People should just be able to enjoy whatever aspect of a story they want. I definitely prefer when a series is well written over the characters being strong, for example my 3 favourite battle shounen anime/manga are Yu Yu Hakusho, HxH and Rurouni Kenshin but sometimes dumb power levels are just cool to see. Putting that aside, what are power scalers really doing that's so harmful to anyone but themselves and their own free time? As mentioned they certainly have no effect over the author's and as long as you don't let them bother you they have no sway over anything else.
@@danieltodorov7753that’s a matter of opinion and one you don’t have the right to push onto others
@@joshuafrazier3904 an opinion they don't have a right to push onto others?
they just shared an opinion online that nobody is even obligated to read, nobody got forced to except or believe anything lol. Someone replied to their comment and they replied back, so it wasn’t even unwarranted for them to say something back.
what exactly do you mean by push onto others? Normally that implies force doesn’t it.
@@dylanbarrett508They literally say that powerscalers can't enjoy stories because they'e too focused on powerscaling. Are you illiterate or just a troll?
Let's be clear Gege Akutami admitted that he made the Mach 3 statemnet because he thought it sounded cool and forgot about the catching bullet scene
Genuinely
@@Lordmaster135 fr
No… he never said he forgot that scene or that he only made it because it sounded cool
@@SoulofFinality Then you need to check your facts
@@KiraiKatsuji Can you provide proof for your it statement?
When you bring anime and cartoons like regular show into it, powerscaling Marvel just seems kinda like saying which dog could beat which in dogfighting.
I always remember that first appearance: Vegeta charging his ki blast made the earth rumble and lightning appear… FIRST APPEARANCE!!! By Buu's arc, he should punch a wall and destroy the Milky Way.
roshi could destroy the moon in og dragon ball and yet its considered impressive that freeza can destroy the planet
for dragon ball i've always seen it as them channeling the 'energy/power' into their target. when they use blasts they should destroy everything especially when it gets knocked away.
He gain more control
@@elcalabozodelandroide2 control de q? si el fenomeno no depende Vegeta, depende le la cantidad de energia q acumula, se produce es por acumular mucha energia muy rapido en un lugar muy pequeño... ahora reuna 1000 mas energia y mas rapido y a la atmosfera ni la tierra no le pasa nada.... lol
@@zaidalvi-r2l The amount of power to destroy the earth compared to the if around 1,800 times so there's a big difference
goku and vegeta are low multiversal beings while at the same time vegeta died to fricking planet exoplosion while in ssb while king vegeta tanked 3
This is honestly one of the better deconstructions of power scaling I have seen so far. I don't particularly hate power scaling but I always found the concept of attack potency to be flawed. Good to see someone else who agrees on this. Very nice and detailed video.
I'd like to mention to people that powerful characters don't necessarily have exetreme destructive capability. With high creation output.
As someone who likes to power scale I completely agree. Power scalers will completely ignore all logic and context and purely look at stats at their peak. They'd take two characters, one that can throw a punch so fast it can create a bubble as hot as the sun, and another characters who with their strongest punch against a boxing bag, broke their hand and so much as put a hole in the bag; then clearly character one is stronger right...no bc I left out the context that character two is a full grown man and character one is a mantis shrimp...
man took a 30 minute dump on the entire power scaling community .... absolutely goated
you echoed sentiments I felt for a long time and I'm glad someone finally said it
Powerscaling in general isnt bad. In fact alot of people who claim they hate powerscalers, are indeed themselves powersclaers. All powerscaling is is determining what characters are capable of based on feats theyve preformed before. Its as simple as Character A has only shown to be able to lift 500 lbs. Character B has shown to be able to lift 1,000 lbs. Based on that information Character B is stronger than charcacter A. At the end of the day it is ultimately on the writer to be aware of the characters feats and show what they're capable of and explaoning why planet busters dont detsroy the planet with their fights. The fans can only take the information the writer and the story gives.
I fucking hate the power-scaling thing so much like its the worst thing to happen to the super-hero-science-fiction genre I wish it never existed
Must suck to be that angry all the time.
I agree with basically everything you say in this video, except that you can't have a form of "attack potency". One example I had in a story idea was one where the characters were actually capable of destroying planets, but they were all able to absorbe that level of energy to get them to be damaged. But this gives the factor that if any of these characters are fighting each other, they need to be very careful not to miss a single strike or they are killing everyone on the planet.
So there can be an explanation for something like that, but most of the explanations I've heard are rediculous.
You’ve got a subscriber from this 😆Your sense of humor is top tier
"If you have ever known the pleasures of a woman's touch or the joys of touching grass"
Meanwhile, here in Venezuela, me and my nerdy acquaintances who touch grass, go to the beach, and hang out with women, debate about anime and cartoons 😂
I guess american culture is quite different
Still, the OG debaters often disregarded author's statements, one time they were even mocked because in their community "feats reign supreme"
And even if those words were meant to be an insult, they're perfectly describe the most reasonable perspective in this particular hobby. Feats are better for scaling than most writer's statements (Toriyama himself forgot how powerful his characters were before Super started). The key to avoid going crazy is to remember this is just a hobby
@@OverlordGab wait you think I’m American? This has happened a couple times, do I really sound American?!?!?
@MidnightRants Your accent doesn't sound American, British perhaps?
I called it American culture because everything started in this continent
@@MidnightRants telajeta gringo we/>on
I think there was only one time DBZ where the level of Goku or anyone else's power really sets in and its the Cell Tournament. First was the scene when Goku charged up a Kamehamaha and everyone was so afraid that if he fired it towards earth from the sky it would have destroyed the planet and the next time was when Cell bitched out and tried to blow up everything. outside of that the tournaments in super were held in the space between universes because of the destructive powers of the participates and the arenas were made my angels but that doesn't really show the raw power of the people in dragon ball
How about the time when Zeno earned literal universes?
@coolbeans107 I get what you mean but it still didn't feel like a universe was wiped out. You didn't see the countless amounts of galaxies because erased. It just shows that zeno getting rid of zamasu but if they didn't say the entire universe was wiped you wouldn't have known
@@Renaldo_Grahamwell when super shenron appeared, u cud literally see galaxies in the background as small specks compared to his size lol
It might be worse when such a high attack potency only applies to a specific weapon or power, nothing else in a character's arsenal, but powerscalers just slap that AP onto EVERYTHING the character has (and/or even ignore the rule of Kryptonites). Like, there's a reason certain moves in, say, video games have differing attack power values, and even why some have type weaknesses.
Most power scalers will just say the max power a characters has that they can use under normal circumstances and just go if they land blank attack they can win. Not that every punch is equal to their strongest attack
Finally someone touched on what I've been thinking the whole time!
8:25 The author’s response and his supporters response is hilarious!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
it mainly comes down to narrative convenience. Because let's be honest, if the universe split in half every time the Hulk punched Abomination the story would kind of be counter intuitive to him saving people. That's not an excuse for the writers oversight but it's why that happens. Attack potency was created as head canon for the debate community to explain away this issue and allow the discussions to even happen in the first place. If you wanna win in a lot of cases, when they bring up a character's power and use terms from a wiki like VSBW for example just say "that's not official to the comics, I don't except it" and that's done. I stopped doing that kind of thing because something about this chronic online arguing makes people very toxic and even gets into real world implications, like doxing for example. The only debates I engage in are real world things, such as theology or sports, and occasionally politics. In those spaces you can't use "outerversal" or any other made up term to win. You actually have to actually debate for real and that's where I get the enjoyment out of it, the actual discussions not the "speed blitz bfr narrative transcendence, concede you rat" nonsense.
My god, I’m so glad someone is saying this. People really need to stop with this logic born from DBZ power scaling.
Unless the threat a character is facing can not be solved using force, or the story takes place on a galactic scale (meaning the story is about traveling through space). Then the story should end after the characters reach planet buster level’s of power.
Stories in general are at their best when they stay at street level’s of power.
Or even more accurately... "Stories are at their best when they stay consistent." and that means both story and lore-wise as well as visually.
@@ether2275 you are technically correct. But I would say the most important thing is that characters are not overpowered for the story the writer wishes to tell.
For example, Dragonball Z, or super would not be as popular if it was consistent with its power scaling. If it was the story would quickly become stale and boring.
People want stories that are both interesting and consistent.
"STOP HAVING FUN"-wannabe writers on the internet.
The author of jjk did actually debunk the mach 3 later and to be fair people will get mad it's like you watch the flash going light speed or something like that then a random guy with a gun take him down just for the sake of plot sometimes
The author have the right to do what they want but sometimes they do some weird stuff like goku blowing up planets then he can't lift 40 tons lol
Writers either need to stop making their characters so strong they can't properly depict that strength, or figure out how to consistently depict that strength within the confines of their stories. "He's holding back" makes sense, but it can only carry you so far.
Powerscailing isn’t fun anymore. It stopped being fun out of its ridiculousness at first and then it isn’t fun to even mock it. I’m literally tired. EVERY TIME when nerds are making some characters who CANONICALLY don’t have any supernatural powers (like Sportacus or Baki characters) into some city-busting hypersonic monster… Something’s dying inside me. And I don’t even want to hear any glazing of Dragonball. Just please…
I’m actually feeling stupid for participating in powerscailing community even if it was only for standing for some of my beloved characters.
But hey. At least some powerscalers are making really cool edits
Lmao dude, Sportacus CANONICALLY hit a ball to the moon. Show me an irl human who can do that, I'll wait.
Honestly it's so funny that people are getting mad at powerscaling fucking Sportacus. We powerscale for fun, you rage because it genuinely bothers you.
@ ever heard of a thing called “exaggeration”? It’s basically that. You can calculate that it takes bazillion newtons of force to do that but I don’t think that this one and only moment in a whole series means that Sportacus was meant to be able to destroy cities with punches. He’s just a regular healthy athletic human story wise.
Also I’m not getting mad. I’m just tired of powerscailing. Especially when powerscalers are joining conversations where I don’t want to hear their bull$hit. Like when we’re talking about Demon Slayer and suddenly here comes that one guy with his “Lmao Gojo solos your weak verse”. It happens too often.
@@КириллТрифонов-е5ф Ever heard of a thing called fun? Genuinely, what does it matter if the calcs say he can destroy a city? He isn't a shonen anime character lmao. I can understand being annoyed at someone wanking a character like Goku or Gojo, but who genuinely cares if someone thinks Sportacus can destroy a city? How is it any more dumb than hitting a ball casually to the moon or literally running at super speed because he's athletic? He's already potrayed as blatantly superhuman, but ig TOO MUCH IS TOO MUCH in your children's tv show lmao.
Also dude, "I have to see something I don't agree with on the internet" Gee, almost like this is a social platform where anyone can express their opinion, no matter how dumb or subjective. Honestly this isn't even a powerscaling issue, that is literally how the internet works.
@@unfortunatecircumstances8870 if anyone can express their opinion than so do I. Which was what I did. Any question about that?
@@КириллТрифонов-е5ф I have no issue with that my guy. I'm just saying, there's always gonna be the "but can he beat x?" guy who everyone finds annoying. Just ignore them.
ok this is very well made, you deserve more subs.
Never saw this dude more white in my life but now I'll watch every single video he drops for the next decade 100%. Dude could've speak english but instead he choose speak FACTS.
This is poorly made. This man clearly doesn't understand much about what he's complaining about.
@OnlyLiarGameFan
Yes we all think that saying that your favorite fictional character is 'super duper mega ultra versal' and 52475 dimensional makes you very cool.
@zaidalvi-r2l I'd disagree.
@@OnlyLiarGameFan
No no no. We all think you're very cool
Love this video and your channel, new subscriber :)
only suggestions I really have are to talk at least a little faster and focus a little more on your hooks, because when the video started I had a feeling it was gonna be a slop analysis but I'm glad I stuck around
Bocchi can beat Goku
Her feats are nothing to scoff at.
She was able to turn into Godzilla. Those who know Godzilla lore knows he never loses.
She started breaking the matrix in the famous Bocchi glitch scene. Making her an absolutely omniversal threat to even be capable of that.
She popped like a balloon. Then came back the next scene. Meaning she can resist existence erasure itself. So hakai is ineffective against Bocchi.
Strongest feat of them all. She can turn to dust which inflicts poison to those who breathe it in. We all know Goku is weak to poison types.
So now acknowledge Bocchi as your anxious overlord.
Hakai wud still be effective since it erased dr mashiroto who earlier had come back after being erased from the narrative itself. Also beerus is immune to gag characters
I'm normally against the powerscaller side but I feel you're comming from a way too utilitarian point of view, I mean, Joke's on me entering this video based on the title and thinking it was about storytelling. at the end of the day the author's goal is to make an entertaining story so that it gets read, but yes, authors are human too, and make mistakes, Akutami is NOTORIOUSLY bad at math and picturing numbers, but at the same time obssessed with mathematical concepts, he even acknowledges that having Maki catch that bullet was a mistake, finding out how fast are bullets is not hard, and they're very often well avobe Mach 3, hence the inconsistency.
I want to agree with you and you make good points, but you're approaching from the "appeal to real life physics" side, it's that whole "objects in real life cant move faster than light therefor Goku can't" type of argument and... man, that's what fiction is for, the idea is to be able to imagine it, and just while you're reading it, suspend your disbelief, and believe that it's real. "Goku is Figthing Cell as 9 octillion times the speed of light, i can't keep up with their movements!", its just an amusing thought! it's really entertaining trying to picture it in your brain
Attack pottency is an entirely fictional concept and I don't know who you might be talking to who believes otherwise, but more than an excuse i feel its more of an attempt at accommodating the fact that we're talking about cartoons, In One Piece, Usopp is for all intents and purposes a regular normal human guy, and he gets hit in the face with a 4 ton bat which cracks his skull, and he survives, and is even able to continue fighting for a bit after, and that's not lazy writting, One piece is just straight up cartoony with its physics, and by that point we've been through enough funny stretchy shenanigans that we can believe that usopp, a cartoony but regular guy, can survive getting attacked like that, hell, I'd even believe it takes much more effort creating a mood in order to condition the reader to believe that.
To be fair Ussop is not normal either, that talk in the series how normal people wouldnt survive that
Fantastic comment. I love everything you mentioned here, especially with One Piece's cartoonish conditioning. That show can be pretty brutal at times, so it does feel weird to have such a silly cartoonish side to it, yet it works well. Plot heavily influences power.
Bro does not know what AP or D.C is 🏃♂️
Little bro so ahh decroded he can't comprehend the incredulous nature of bifurcating the concepts of power into attack potency and destructive capacity and how this impacts the quality of series' writing 💀💀💥
@@MidnightRants How did you even come to that conclusion, lmao? Your whole rant in this video about how AP "doesn't make sense because it violates the principle of conservation of energy" is straight up mentioned within every scaling wiki on the Fandom , even on one of the worst wikis-the VS Battles Wiki .
AP is a specific concept used in power scaling to try to gauge a character's strength despite inconsistencies in the story. It provides a straightforward baseline for character scaling. How is that hard to understand?
Look , i recognize that the power scaling community is a unique space ( by that, i mean mentally r----). The people there often have nothing better to do; they debate online about which character would win over another based on whatever scaling system they use, regardless of their “hax” . Honestly, that's why I left power scaling-I found it a waste of time. After reading a ton of Marvel comics to try scaling (since Marvel is my favorite universe), I just got bored of it.
Your statement about AP having any impact on the quality of a story’s writing is just so funny. lol , AP has nothing to do with analyzing stories and doesn’t affect storytelling at all. It’s a fan-made concept used strictly in a different field. It’s not the fans’ fault if the author can’t maintain consistent writing or visuals, so they try to make sense of it all to scale the characters within the verse . I support the slander to the com , but if you gonna slander them , then pls adress your points correctly 😭.
@@cesaredits6726 cring ahh contrarian ahh cope 💀💀🤣🤣💥💥
@@cesaredits6726 In all seriousness you've strawmanned me here; 1. that isn't the entire rant of my video that's one specific point I made among many, 2. the wikis specifically I did not say made the ac = real argument, 3. the effects of ap does affect stories (creating inconsistencies and such) but even then the main point of the vid is just me ranting about it for blue balling me out of cool big boom booms, 4. I mention that it is the author's fault but also the power scalers also are separately at fault for different ap based things like I mentioned in the video.
@@MidnightRants shhhh yo skibidi ahh 🦍🦍🦍🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️
The problem isn't power scaling, its a hobby people have cause its FUN, the problem is *inconsistency in the writting*
Its why people are annoyed when characters like The Flash are constantly nerfed so the plot can happen the way the writers want it to. Changing the characters to fit the story instead of the other way around.
But usually people don't take it too seriously unless some serious tomfackery is happening in the story.
The flash isn't constantly nerfed that is how he normal acts the feet's are impressive because there not normal what he can do, I do believe the villians in cw can beat the flash why that is what happens in every episode it makes perfect sense that the guy who can multiple can over whelm the flash, the run faster then you ever did to win is the outline at the end he got stronger to win as he was weaker before
5:25 I was just watching a Krillin vs vid where they said the same thing. Even though Krillin has never slightly been shown to be able to do it in the show.
ok but why, why would they show krillin doing that in a show, they already showed piccolo blow up a moon with a casual ki blast a million sagas ago and krillin's much stronger than that in-universe. Thats how fiction works, plot over perfect feat consistency.
Because he can? I mean he is galaxy level already but why would he even try? He is a human he doesn't want to blast the solar system in under a minute and the show doesn't wanna do that?
@@LJCG777Where was that “galaxy destroying power” when he was in the Tournament of Power? 💀
I agree. As someone who's been in and out of the community, powerscalers take it to a comical level of stupidity. The attempts to one-up one another is even more comical, with Naruto powerscalers trying to downplay One Piece characters (to which the world is nonsensical as is) by saying that Kizaru's light isn't real light because it's "destructive." I had to explain to people, more times than I like to count, how light carries momentum. It's no use, honestly.
But... unfortunately, I feel like the joke is on you. The fact that you made this video proves that they not only live in your head rent free, but some anonymous discord group is going to hound your every waking moment to debate you. Before I even got sucked into that kind of mess I immediately, and correctly, came to the conclusion that it is _not_ worth it.
There is a subset of powerscalers that understand what you're exactly preaching, and you just needlessly attacked an entire population from a high horse - and those guys just do it because it's fun to find out how whacky the authors intend for their characters to be.. Like, I get it, it's insane, but you're like (checking the first Goku vs Superman death battle video...) 11 years way, way, WAY too late and now you painted a target on your back. For nothing.
3:38 there’s a this guy on tiktok who keeps scaling tobey maguire spider-man to beat people like hancock, superman, thor..etc & it’s so annoying because you know “realistically” if they fought peter would lose no hesitation.
5:39 The modern Doom lore is so stupid and completely misses the point. Doom lore was never meant to be taken seriously and Doomguy was just supposed to be a goofy crazy soldier guy who is good at shooting demons, his backstory of wanting revenge cause his rabbit died is shallow and ridiculous because thats literally the point. He was never supposed to be this hyper OP god slaying universe buster that went from a normal dude to a blessed son of satan that has a tragic backstory because of his wife dying or some crap. People complain about Mary Sues but "the epic and radicool doomSLAYA" is far more obnoxious in this regard then Batman or Superman ever were
To be fair, his OPness is part of the joke.
Oh no!!! Anyway.
@GeorgeDCowley That would work if it was like the classic games where they arent meant to be taken seriosuly at all but eternal is tryhard to the point where its just silly and almost cringeworthy. The lore and cutscenes make it very clear that it takes itself very seriously and isnt just a joke which is why its funny that the game acts like its the coolest shit ever.... kinda like how 40k started out as a joke that went over most people's heads
basically if your strong characters don't feel as justifiably strong as baki hanma and don't utilize half his strength [pp training included], you're probably doing something wrong
Hanma baki is such bad example he seems so unrealistically op even if he isn't much because of the bs the story ironically puts and power creep in show is crazy to
Have never dealt with this when it comes to power scaling. I just view it as "There is a strategy for everything. And some characters just don't have that strategy."
I disagree in some stuff, the point in planet level destruction is very clear in dbz for example, vegeta came to earth and if goku loses the entire earth goes with him... freeza destroys namek and this drives a good part of the plot of the arc... kid buu destroys the planet when he appears and kills a lot of the main characters, etc...
theres a lot of moments where the character being planet level makes a massive difference in the story... It all started with roshi blowing up the moon to make goku destransform from oozaru form.
Of course, in other stories a lot of times it doesn't make much differences indeed...
I agree if you are power scaling fiction you have to look in the story if it consistent for characters do have the power to create or destroy celestial bodies and cosmic structures because people make up tiers like Hyperversal and Outerversal to put their characters in which make no sense if something like a Omniverse doesn’t exist in the narrative of the author doesn’t know about what is power scaling
Some power scalers make up other things like appeal to reality which make no sense because the most common thing about fiction and reality from a physical perspective is that they both are typically depicted as having three spatial dimensions of length width and height just like our world
9:30 that was so fucking funny that power scaler claims to use physics to calculate feat but actually don't understand physics at all, like catching a pistol is something Bruce Lee could do yet they somehow mental gymnastics their ass to hyper sonic, and even worse is scene of "teleportation effect" they straight up treat it like actually teleportation when it's just to show the character being fast and vanish
The character caught a bullet, while it was centimeters from her face. Bruce Lee can’t do that…
Bruce Lee could in fact not catch a bullet centimeters from his face while resting last minute, scientifically speaking. It’s pretty funny how a powerscaler that uses physics to calculate feats didn’t understand physics at all.
Your right about the other stuff though
The special pleading/double standard of power scalers is crazy, if we normies try to make sense of fiction using real life logic and physics they will call it "appeal to reality fallacy" (yes they say shit like that) but if they want to know how powerful a feat is OF COURSE THEY USE REAL WORLD LOGIC AND PHYSICS and that's not a fallacy somehow.
@@racuncai it's very dependent on what exactly you are referring to with those terms as many misuse them. Appeal to reality fallacy is just when you assume things in a fictional universe MUST adhere to the real world which is not always the case. "Good" powerscalers will use real world physics to try and calculate different feats but if certain physics or structures of that fictional universe are different then they have to adjust for those facts in some way when making arguments and calculations.
My logic has always just been “the fight is imaginary and in my head, screw scaling, the winner is who I want it to be”
Broth: I would, not that my author can animate. . . I would show you something. . . but your power level is through the roof. Also, the audience is itself and many people, but you're right.
Sounds like Hulk stans
17:00 one problem; KI isn't real, trying to apply real world physics to what amounts to magic is silly. Now for non-magical actions/ characters that are more grounded and realistic I agree with this sentiment. I would agree with this argument if ki blast did follow real world physics.
If you believe death battle, almost every character can move and fight a million times faster than light and destroy the universe thousands of times with a single punch.
don't let bleach fans see this video
The purpose of depicting characters with cosmic or dimensional power goes beyond literal display. Higher-dimensional power levels in fiction often serve as narrative and thematic tools rather than purely visual spectacles. In many fictional stories, cosmic power is not just a physical trait but a narrative device that speaks to themes of responsibility, isolation, and humanity. A big example of this is Superman. Superman's god-like abilities aren’t just for show; they highlight the tension between his power and his restraint, his moral conflicts, and his unique perspective on humanity. EVEN IF he does not use his full strength to destroy planets, his capacity for such power affects his inner conflicts and the weight of his choices. Actually a lot of philosophers like Friedrich Nietzsche and his concept of the Übermensch (or “Overman”) aligns here. The Übermensch is a symbol of potential, moral complexity, and the struggle to transcend ordinary limits, not a literal figure wreaking havoc on everything in existence.
Also depending on the execution, high-level characters, such as those classified as 4D or cosmic, often add depth to the world-building by suggesting a larger, layered universe. Their existence implies that there are stakes and scales beyond what is immediately visible, adding layers of intrigue, awe, and potential to the story. This aligns with David Lewis’s possible worlds theory, where different realms can coexist with unique internal structures. Characters on cosmic scales extend the “possible worlds” within the story, expanding its potential and reinforcing a layered setting that is felt, if not always seen. Series like Dragon Ball, Bleach, or Doctor Strange, high-dimensional or god-like entities are rarely depicted using their full power, yet their mere presence establishes a sense of scale, mystery, and hierarchy within the universe. This contributes to the world-building by framing a layered reality where greater powers exist beyond the ordinary characters’ comprehension.
Cosmic power usually allows authors to explore philosophical questions about existence, knowledge, and perception. For example, 4D characters can raise questions about the nature of time, reality, and cause and effect-concepts that challenge readers on an intellectual level. Scientists and theories like Hugh Everett’s many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, which posits infinite, branching universes, provides a powerful framework for these themes. By suggesting characters who can influence or even exist across dimensions, authors can examine ideas of free will, determinism, and alternate possibilities-even if these powers are not visually depicted. A good example of this is Marvel's Infinity Gauntlet story arc, for example, has cosmic entities that rarely display their full power. Instead, they serve as symbols of boundless potential, ethical dilemmas, and the inherent risk of wielding infinite power.
Not showing a character’s full power can be a deliberate artistic authorial choice, one that adds tension and intrigue to the story. The potential of characters who are cosmically powerful but restrained keeps the audience engaged with the mystery of their capabilities. When a character’s power is left partially unseen, it contributes to the story’s suspense and offers a deeper payoff when (and if) that power is revealed. In this way, their strength is part of the plot’s tension, not a mere spectacle. AN AMAZING EXAMPLE OF THIS is One Punch Man, Saitama’s overwhelming power isn’t about the destruction he could cause but rather the existential crisis he faces because of it. The focus is on how such power shapes him internally, not on the direct impact on his surroundings. This restraint can add layers of complexity to both the character and the plot.
Characters with god-like or dimensional power often function as symbols of larger ideas, such as the potential for creation, destruction, and transcendence. They represent boundaries beyond ordinary human limitations, embodying ideals or fears. According to the philosopher Plato and his theory of forms, abstract, ideal versions of concepts exist even if they are not fully embodied. In this way, higher-dimensional characters symbolize abstract ideals-ideas of infinity, existence, or moral absolutes-rather than merely demonstrating raw power. An example of this is Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, Dr. Manhattan’s god-like abilities are rarely used to their full extent, but his mere presence raises questions about detachment, human emotion, and morality. His powers function as symbols of ideas much larger than their literal demonstration, adding profound meaning to the story even without constant displays of his full capabilities.
You are referencing dimensional tiering, a concept which is completely pseudoscientific; extra spatial dimensions do not cause infinite or beyond infinite power properties due to an extraordinary number of factors.
The concept of dimensional tiering was born with HP Lovecraft, popularised further by Grant Morrison and then popularised in power scaling circles by UA-camrs and sites like vsbattlewiki. All fiction based people and communities bastardising scientific ideas to wank the power levels of fictional characters.
Dimensional tiering misunderstands geometry, how quantities (scalar and vectors) function, and bastardises string theory. String theory for instance does not agree with the fiction writer born concept of dimensional tiering anymore than the theory that the Earth is round agrees with the pseudoscientific idea that the Earth is flat.
You’ve raised some interesting points but the core of your message is predicated on genuine pseudoscience. Unfortunately the topic is extremely deep, I plan on debunking it fully in the future, perhaps even make a full documentary into the very interesting history of dimensional tiering pseudoscience, but I am not applying all that energy into debunking a single comment’s allusion to it.
Again you raise some interesting ideas, but they are predicated on a vsbattlewiki idea that states that the physical embodiment of autism would scientifically have the power to punch the universe out of existence more than infinity times over, dimensional tiering is perhaps the maddest and most interesting pseudoscience created by man and it has developed beyond even the infamously scientifically inept Lovecraft’s wild imagination.
Even ignoring all the dimensional tiering stuff; your arguments do not deconstruct mine. Characters restraining their power is handy plot device as you mention, but that fact exists irrelevant of my arguments. If a character doesn’t feel powerful then to the audience they aren’t powerful, your core examples being One Punch Man and Superman who are characters which actually do constantly show off constantly bombastic earth rending feats is quite funny in this respect.
Characters being cosmically, unfathomably powerful is also great for writing stories with messages of higher ideas, but this also doesn’t disagree with anything I have said in this video, I love Dr Manhattan as much as the next guy and I can FEEL how powerful he is, and thus feel his power-based plight better, because of the outlandish feats he showcases.
Again, you do raise some good points for cases where not showing a character's full power is a good thing but the general thesis of the video still holds firm; the vast majoroity of the time attack potency is just lazy writing, not an exploration of higher themes or a device used to incite mystery. Of course there are exceptions to the lazy writing truth, but these are exceptions that prove the rule, as they use power, or in this case a lack of showcasing said power, in a unique and interesting way.
@@MidnightRants It isn't pseudoscience, dimensional tiering is based on scientific theories, purely hypothetical theories, your dismissal of dimensional tiering and cosmic power as “pseudoscientific” fundamentally misinterprets both the scientific and philosophical frameworks these concepts draw from. Fiction doesn’t aim to literally mirror science but to use it as a metaphor for higher ideals; like Nietzsche’s Übermensch explores transcending human limitations, cosmic characters embody restraint, moral conflict, and an understanding of humanity beyond brute destruction. And just how Plato’s theory of forms speaks to the presence of abstract ideals that can’t be fully manifested in the physical world, higher-dimensional beings in fiction symbolize concepts like infinity, transcendence, or justice, adding depth rather than mere spectacle. You also claim restrained power makes characters feel weak, Alfred Hitchcock’s concept of suspense - the “bomb under the table” - demonstrates that implied power can heighten tension and engagement precisely by being restrained, as with Saitama or Dr. Manhattan, whose powers provoke thought rather than bombastic displays. Mathematically, dimensional tiering isn’t a distortion but an extension, inspired by real theories like Hausdorff dimensions, which show how entities can operate beyond typical three-dimensional constraints, illustrating characters who transcend normal perception. Your focus on visual feats oversimplifies these ideas, ignoring how cosmic powers resonate with ancient storytelling traditions where myths, from Greek gods to Hindu deities, symbolized incomprehensible forces; cosmic power isn’t about showy visuals but serves as a narrative tool to explore responsibility, existence, and reality itself.
"Fiction doesn’t aim to literally mirror science" HAHAHAHA EVERY TIME! Every time I point out the mad pseudoscientific absurdity of dimensional tiering the entire argument changes from "it's a real science!" to something like "it's just ficiton bro it doesn't have to be scientific!"
"inspired by real theories like Hausdorff dimensions"
Yup, it inspired ficiton authors to write interesting magic systems. Hausdorff dimensions, string theory, basic geometry, none of these support the pseudoscientific idea of dimensional tiering anymore than the theory that the Earth is round supports the pseudoscientific idea of flat Earth theory. Dimensional tiering is a bastardisation of dimensional properties just like the flat Earth is a bastardisation of Earth. Flat Earth theory wouldn't exist without the Earth, dimensional tiering wouldn't exist without string theory, that doesn't mean dimensional tiering is a real science.
@@MidnightRants Brother, you are conflating dimensional tiering with literal, empirical science, which misunderstands the purpose of fiction and theoretical models in storytelling. Dimensional tiering at its core is a conceptual framework, much like metaphor or symbolism in literature, that draws on advanced mathematical ideas to explore abstract ideals. just because fiction adapts theories for narrative depth doesn’t make them “flat Earth” equivalents, instead it uses scientific inspiration to shape complex characters and universal concepts, as Nietzsche’s Übermensch or Plato’s forms represent transcendence beyond immediate reality.
you laughed off fiction’s aim to “mirror science,” but countless works of fiction, from Star Trek to The Matrix, use speculative science to reflect social and philosophical questions - not to mirror exact equations. IN FACT, Plato’s allegories and Nietzsche’s concepts both rely on hypothetical ideas to explore human ideals, not strict literalism.
Also, saying dimensional tiering is just a "bastardisation" of Hausdorff dimensions just overlooks how dimensional tiering is used to further build a story’s layered reality. Exactly like Gödel’s incompleteness theorems demonstrate limits in mathematical systems without invalidating mathematics. Higher-dimensional frameworks in fiction similarly explore metaphysical boundaries: they’re an imaginative extension that acknowledges scientific theory without needing to prove it. David Lewis’s possible worlds theory explains this perfectly, showing that fictional worlds operate with distinct internal logics to explore possibilities and themes.
Like brother, dismissing dimensional tiering for not being “real science” ignores how it allows for themes like responsibility, cosmic awe, and inner conflict - not “magic” but structured abstraction. Additionally, Alfred North Whitehead’s philosophical concept of abstraction highlights that the purpose of such frameworks is to represent reality's deeper truths, not literal scientific assertions.
Lastly, you bring up good points, but your comparison to flat Earth theory is off base: flat Earth proponents deny observable reality, while dimensional tiering acknowledges science as a foundation for creating speculative but internally consistent narratives. In fiction, dimensional tiering’s appeal lies in its capacity to convey infinite potential and complex character dynamics, much like H.P. Lovecraft’s beings, which suggested existential limits and humanity’s place in an unknowable universe, yet didn’t rely on literal scientific proof.
These cosmic characters represents ideals of moral responsibility and restraint by getting inspiration from how us humans are fascinated by power beyond our comprehension, not a literal display, but an exploration of the philosophical weight of infinite potential.
Attack Potency can be fairly accurate
Somethings which cause massive collateral damage can’t harm things which other things which don’t can
Take for an example a Grenade vs an armored tank not being very affective
But a powerful anti tank rifle being able to penetrate right through when used at close range
Very well spoken man, agree with everythin you said. And yeah gurren lagann and mob are peak when it comes to visual power
I never understood why authors escalate danger by upping raw power, when there's a million ways to explain that x is stronger than y because of skill. Like you can literally INVENT techniques that make your character fight smarter or make them better at predicting the enemy. Raw power amps should be rare. Not only that, they should be marginal. Like, in Dragonball for example, characters don't gain 5% or 10% extra power between arcs, no, they multiply their power by 500 times, like why???
Actually one thing I noticed about powerscaling which is actually funny is how they scale characters to concepts that don't even exist or things beyond the human mind💀
Examples are,
Hyperversal
Megaversal
Extraversal
Omniversal
And all the while, mist of them are barely even star level.(the rest would likely just have very impressive feats)
“Power Scaling” and “Shipping” are natural outcomes of fandoms dealing with supernatural fiction however pushed too far it becomes “brain rot.” When power scaling is pushed from “fun stimulating engagement in the source material” to “my daddy can beat up your daddy pissing contests” then we’ve lost the plot (literally); it’s all I care about personally (the quality of writing). For a great example of this look at “Homelander vs (insert daddy here)” it’s a great litmus test for brain dead. “One Punch Man” is a great example of how “power scaling” is trash.
Power scaling is the male equivalent to shipping
@@billyboleson2830…?
@@billyboleson2830 How so? Plenty of males are shippers, and plenty of women are powerscalers. Neither are gendered hobbies.
The scene where Saitama comically chases a mosquito but is unable to catch it then the mosquito boss lady appears and Saitama easily one-shots her that perfectly captures what comic books are nowadays, inconsistent powerscaling nonsense. You have these idiot writers wanking superman to be God then remember they have to write a story with this overpowered abomination which leads to even more ass pulls like "he's holding back" (it's the same as "ki control")
The thing about the second amendment, is it was written at a time when government (British government, especially) was considered "the enemy", and it was generally thought that if the government was unjust, it was a citizens duty to revolt. Also, an armed populace is harder for invaders to conquer than an unarmed one. It was all about giving people the power to fight back against the government - something the British could benefit from.
_Commenting this before I watch the video, so don't kick me if anything I say is already said, explained, or argued against._
Whether a character is Wall level or Omniversal, the only thing that matters for shock and awe is theatrics. And a lot of people use that to sneer at characters Planetary and up, but my opinion is... who cares? (Yeah, powerscalers do, but they as a whole still like characters regardless of attack potency, durability, feats, etc despite what it can seem from the _very_ vocal minority).
If a Wall level character looks cool doing Wall level stunts, then it's cool. If an Omniversal, 5D character looks cool doing Wall level stunts, then... that's also cool. Again, what matters is theatrics. You can't tell me people weren't painting their room white when Saitama split the clouds with a punch, even when he jumped from the Moon back to Earth (a much more physically demanding feat by orders of magnitude in the time frame he did it) in the _same fight._
People also tend to associate higher levels of power and a vertical power system with bad writing when that is far from the truth. For as many stories as there are with "my number is bigger [citation needed]," there are just as many with "I poisoned you, which will come into effect... about now-ish!" and "we're 1v1ing and exchanging blows, but now _you_ are the one with arbitrarily less stamina!" and "I know you spent 39 years training (it took 3 seasons), but I win off of one trick because realism and plot extension!"
For the third time, to remind everyone, theatrics are king. And, yes, writing is also king. Regardless of if someone can break a cinder block _or_ manually stop the flow of time, neither means jack if the writing is subpar or the animation/visual effects aren't up to snuff. People tend to be harsher on stronger power systems because the villains suddenly _need_ to try to destroy the planet/galaxy/universe at that point, but there are a million ways to easily explain past it (for example, Dragon Ball, the king of "vertical power scaling bad," has multiple scenes explaining that power ~= speed, and smaller AoE attack = more potent and faster technique. So an energy attack capable of destroying planets wouldn't always be viable since the user has to either expand the attack's AoE and sacrifice speed or potency - both allowing the protag to easily intercept it and knock it away - or take forever to charge it up which would also put themselves at risk by being in the blast radius after expending themselves).
This also isn't to completely excuse vertical power systems, since they _do_ come with a ton of flaws and need a bit more effort put in to work effectively, but neither approach is as cut and dry as people try to make them. Horizontal power system =/= good, and vertical power systems don't need Shakespearean writing skills to make enjoyable media out of.
I like the broly movie were they actually showed these characters at their full power being able to shatter reality with each punch.
Conclusion: Power levels are BS!
And powerscaling is stupid. People try to use
Big word=smart
But it still makes no sense. End of story
Tell me how would you feel if the Flash after running around the world in under a second got hit with a bullet while saving someone, or was unable to chase down someone after they turned a corner despite nothing be there to block his line of sight.
If you are like me and care about even the mildest amount of internal consistency you would be mildly annoyed. How do you solve such an issue??? Basic powerscaling. Not that bs use irl physics to calculate speed stuff just simple A>B>C so A>C
@@joshuafrazier3904 A>B>C= A>C. Right.
So then
Rock>Scissors>Paper, so Rock> Paper
You can't get me to like powerscaling it has waaay to many problems
@@treanmunt1420 Which is why popular characters are usually pitted against multiple others, not just the one with the most wins.
@@joshuafrazier3904 To be fair, the first scenario requires a little bit of maths.
Drastic misunderstanding of powerscaling.
nope wrong gg
powerscalers misunderstand media.
cope
Appeal to Reality Fallacy 🤭
IdaTen is also an anine that depicted the power of their characters in a more "coherent" way
He look like minilad 😅
Superman can fight darkseid can goku fight darkseid no goku is weak
I mean, a character can definetely have the power to blow up a night and haven't done it because the story never called for it.
Saitama got so piwerful in his series that his sneeze deleted the gas on jupiter. One fixed this by reverting his power to be fore the fight, but if this was dragon ball he would just live on planet again and be chilling. If we just use real life scaling saitama just beats about everyone due to that sneeze. Obviously thats not how it works in the powerscaling scene. Somehow people with infinite strength dont move a blood cell and destroy existance like ininify means. Its infinite and the smallest amount of infinite is infinite the universe is gone
That point about characters using guns is one of the most idiotic complaints I've heard from anti-scalers. Swords are more primitive than guns and I doubt you have a problem with Dante swinging a magical demon blade around but for some reason when he starts blasting you think that's automatically some street-level activity. He didn't buy his guns at Walmart.
Indeed. If guns are a sign of weakness, then why isn't Doom Slayer weak at all, not even against Hell?
@@pantheman2842 I have heard many people say he is weak because he fights with guns and that it invalidates his lore.
@@Zack-pm2tu (chuckles) A weakling does not just grab a gun and walk into the gates of Hell for more than a minute.
i feel like powerscalers need to learn the difference between energy, force, and pressure before they start yapping about how gokus kamehameha doesnt blow up planets everytime it is used
Power scaling changed how people discuss characters vs characters.
Great vid!
Multiversal being that don't blow up things that are smaller than multiversal is not the powerscaling community's fault, it's the authors. Also the AP argument is you complaining about the solution to your own argument.
Another copium argument. Also why's it that for db characters, yall need a laundry list of explanations just to prove a character is multiversal or above while for comics, literally one out of context scan is enough despite 100s of other scans contradicting the previously supposedly "multiversal scan" lol...
@@shawtank6912One context scan is also enough for DB. Just pull up Goku and Beerus clash.
Also it’s not copium when it’s literally canon.
Nice try, but maybe you should debate some more.
@@coolbeans107db has so many instances of universal-multiversal or beyond feats like buuhan collapsing dimensions, goku beerus, zamas becoming the timeline, Zeno erasing it, mechi becoming one with the multiverse, the dark dragons flying through all of space and time and threatening to enter the real world, garlic jr destroying the dead zone which is a hyperspace, gogeta broly destroying dimensions, prometheus merging all jump worlds into a a single multiverse amd goku's spirit bomb forcing him to retreat, janemba warping the entire otherworld, vegeta breaking out of time chamber in which the past, present and the future intersect, ssj3 goku shaking the Kai realm which is stated to transcend dimensions, supreme Kai of time creating an infinite dimensional realm, jiren shaking the void of infinite nothingness etc
@@coolbeans107 nah you gotta respond bro
@@Lordmaster135 To what? He agreed with me lol.