Amateur mistake, but no worries, I've done it too. Never poke huge BGAs like that when heated. The pin pitch is very small, and you're almost guaranteed to form solder bridges. Watch out for the board warping temporarily from heat too. That in itself can cause solder bridges to form, or it can cause other BGA chips to lose connections. The board needs to be supported so that it remains flat when heated. Flux will NOT "undo" solder bridges. The surface tension will keep them together due to the small pitch. As long as you didn't short power to data, no damage should be done. This is generally unlikely anyways since power and data pins tend to be far apart for integrity purposes. It will have to be reballed. It's not difficult to do, unless the ball pattern is something particularly weird. Since you've killed it already, just heat+lift the chip and take a look at the underside (you can take tweezers with L-shaped ends, bend the tips slightly so that they grab onto the chip's edges, and this way you can lift evenly/vertically). Make sure you do so with minimum "pulling", since otherwise you can rip out pads. Measure pin pitch (since that's difficult, you can just measure the distance between 10 balls and divide - less error that way), order a cheap stencil from eBay along with some solder balls, get some proper BGA flux (I use Kingbo RMA-218 which works very well and doesn't stink) and watch some tutorials. :) Do this not because you need to or because it's financially sensible, but just to have the experience so that future situations become simpler to deal with. How can you be the #1 electronics blogger without at least some successful experience reballing chips. Come on Dave! :) :)
I +1 this. Has he never seen @Louis Rossmann work ? Dave says that he has fanned out huge BGA packages at Altium, then why does he ignore the known fact that the pitch is tiny ? E: I think the attitude of "No script, No fear" is biting him in the arse. Recently, on the calculator video, he was very mumbling. I think the reason for this could be 1. He wanted a quick video out, so did no do itsy bitsy research 2. He is moving the lab, it has occupied a lot of part of processing power of his brain...? 3. The power capacitors of his brain are now old and puffed, may need replacing ..🤣
@@xMalhardeshmukh I'm pretty sure Louis and Dave know each other, and I assume they've seen each other's work (Louis has mentioned him before). Dave knew he made an error here and I'm sure he knows how to reball it, it's just something he probably hasn't done in a really long time so has apprehensions about it (and it's not easy unless you are well practised)
When I worked at Nintendo at Kirkland, we had all the kit; Mantis microscopes, fancy Hakko soldering stations, air-pencils, vacuum rigs...you name it! One bit of training they did was to allow folks to bring in dead consumer electronics with an eye at fixing them in the shop. Get in a lot of practice working on other peoples mistakes! A buddy brought in an LG TV, and over the course of 3 months every dang IC and transistor had been flowed off the PCB, cleaned, examined, put back on wrong, removed, broken, replaced, put back on right, you name it! In the end it was a partly shorted by-pass capacitor...swollen electrolytic, nobody saw it! Check yer basics first!
Working at Nintendo... I would love an old 2DS motherboard schematic... Have one here that doesn't power up (LED goes blue, stays few seconds, slight pop and turns off), can't find the fault to save my life. Not the screen having bad connection, nor screen itself (tested even with another 2DS screen). That TV seems to have been molested way past repair point... Did you guys manage to fix it in the end or did all the molesting kill too many ICs inside to make it possible?
The right bga stencial solder paste and whit the stuff he have tv can be alive again or just ebay the pcb for like 50€ you can find the pcb and new tv. IF the panel is ok the repair worth on 4 years old or less tv.
IT'S THE DECODE ENGINE RAM!!! It HAS to be either that or the decode engine in the main chip itself - thats where the signal is being blocked. The signal is fed from there to the [B] Engine block which handles the OSD etc and clearly is working fine. The decode engine and the [B] Engine have separate DDR3 controllers, so the ram fault isnt affecting it. The display output looks like classic VRAM issues. A RAM fault is also vastly more likely than a processor fault
phones without ir blaster work just fine. get the IR code as a pcm wav / audio file, hook up a ir or even red led to the 3.5mm jack (if you got one lol) and play the file. i entered my lg tv service menu this way many times.
a red / ir one of course, their Vf is right at the peak of what a headphone jack can deliver (note: amplified headphone jack not just line-out which is just 1 Vpp). the led isnt running at much power, a red one is barely lighting up but its enough for the sensitve ir receivers to detect it when holding it like 1cm infront. certainly less than what most headphones require.
It's the decoder RAM, because you have image movement, it's communicating but reading/writing wrong bits. But I think you toasted it, these operations must be temperature controlled
Some initial tests for BGA would be applying pressure with your finger while TV is on and looking for any change in picture, cooling and or heating chip when TV is on looking for a change in picture. When attempting reflow look at near by soldered components for any solder melt which would indicate that the BGA is also melted instead of touching chip for movement.
Well reflowing that chip, changed the output... So either you fixed something partly, or you just broke it completely and the error was actually before that chip, and because you broke it you didn't even get far enough to encounter the original problem.
Let me shed some light as to why the RS232 Codes are listed in the consumer manual. This is a former top of the line, home cinema TV. Most professional and home made installs for home cinemas work with universal remotes who send RS 232 codes via wire to devices such as the amplifier ,tv , screen and sometimes even curtains and such. Hence these are included because the consumer really does need them. I worked in a small scale cinema (1 screen) for about 5 years and we used this system.
I'll cast another vote for a Dave Jones Loius Rossman shared universe! But yeah shipping between these countries is either super slow or super expensive.
That is a high spec tv and worth fixing being only a few years old and comparing it to current model tv's (4K res, 200hz refresh rate, LED localised dimming, decent built in sound for a tv), so even if you have to buy a whole board to get it going after a couple of vids of you trying to fix it with what you have it would be worth it. RRP was $4599.00 when it left the market, average sell under $4000.00. brand new main boards available on ebay for $588.00 and $22.00 postage from melbourne. probably sell it second hand for $1500 easy once fixed if you could not find a use for it at home. i am a video junkie and i also sell TV's for a living and I would be more than happy to have this as one of my tv's.
Aw, poor BGA has it's balls all mixed up now :( Too bad shipping to the states would cost probably as much as the TV itself, I like the "ship it to Louis Rossmann" ideas. It'd probably be an interesting challenge for him..
@@Sharklops Not sure how he calculates his cost per hour of work (for a UA-camr it's likely: work as much as possible while fitting everything else in your schedule and receive a huge variation of revenue), but a few days of work is probably not worth the cost of a TV for him, unless he receives revenue greater than the value of his time spent on this. Not sure, but it doesn't seem like he would save any money by spending the time on it. However, there's the fun factor and if he wasn't going to be productive anyways, then it's worth it! I would personally do it for two reasons. 1) I don't have a 4K TV at the moment and 2) there are times during the weekend where I don't want to be doing my job but don't mind working on a project.
That's great for your computer. But when you're watching UA-cam on your phone or smart tv, that doesn't work. Most purple watch UA-cam on their phone. Usually the only people who watch UA-cam from a computer are people who work from home or don't have a job.
22:08 "so you gotta be looking carefully for it... so hopefully those joints get hot enough" good one! got me to stop what I was doing and look at the screen.
From the looks of it the service manual was suggesting cracked soldering for a similar image issue to yours. I guess that 500 may have been too much for that board. Look at the discolouration around the area you heated. Or was that the flux messing with the coating?
As per your guide in this video was reflowing my old tube TV to get youtube app on it, dick severely burned, instructions unclear! UA-cam app doesnt show up on any channel. Is it cause mine has no remote capabilities?
You’ve gotta get this thing working! Please do a part 2. I have the 55” model of this TV, so this is particularly interesting to me. Anyone know where to get that document?
Wow. LG being great.I guess you might have gotten this board to work if you had studied bit more before doing stuff for it. That garble pattern was oddly specific and might show up in troubleshooting of panels in general. I dont think reflow would have helped here.I also had few panels to fix a while ago. Could not do anything because the backlight crumbled into pieces when touched. Had no idea how to give it new light that'd match the panel.
Those service manuals assume board swapping. The days of narrowing down a particular component because of the service manual are gone. You have to use your instincts. The original problem looks to be like a video codec problem - something probably related to MP4 video since the problem only occurs in video streams. So whatever chip handles the codec for MP4 - that would be my target.
Dave would make a great video to see you trying to re-ball that chip. I think a lot of people would like to see too. These try to fix it videos are excellent.
Try putting the TV in "game mode" and see if it works. Game mode is made to reduce input lag by bypassing post-processing of the image. The game mode might bypass the defective video decoder section of the chip.
Be careful with "not used before" flux. The little bottle of flux that i bought at an electronics store not too long ago IS CONDUCTIVE! Sure, it's a couple kOhms but i don't want it between the gate and drain of a FET in a switching power supply. Little IC's don't like to be powered with 325V DC.
Since the BGA was likely screwed up solder by poking it I'd say nothing to lose removing it now...any guides for DIY reballing? I have to admit I have no clue what I'm doing but I probably would have tried to dribble some very runny flux under the chip until it ran out the other side prior to attempting the reflow....but maybe that too would be a dumb idea
They include the serial commands in the consumer manual because they are used by AV system integrators to connect and control the display via a control system such as Extron, Crestron, AMX, Control4 etc. They wouldn't put it in the service manual since those are rarely shipped with the unit and are not always available online.
my first thought was the MPEG decoder is screwed...but it could possably be the RAM on either the main decoder chip or the U14 or URSA9 chips...looks like a PC graphics card with bad RAM...one of the RAM chips on URSA9 looks to have something on the top (notice you can read the other 3 fine)..the glue blobs maybe there to help keep the chips from lifting under heat stress.. but meh! its dead now!...send it to Louis to have it reballed..he seems to enjoy that crap!
That was my initial thought, one of the ddr3 modules (bga's) is likely toast. Perhaps the pair on the left in the illustration is the framebuffer memory. (the one marked with 16x2 lanes?) That said it could still be a power issue, the chip will consume more power the moment you play video and a PSU rail might be dropping.
Adding to this the OSD would just be superimposed on the data before going to the LCD panel, so the chip you desoldered likely had little to do with the issue unless there was a problem with the input side of said chip.... you can see that the video selection and OSD is pristine so it would have been the main SoC that was decoding the video where the issue lied, and it didn't look to be the chip you ruined. Also you failed to do the tap test, tap, press, super cool via compressed air trick, bend various areas around the chips and see if symptoms differ... etc.
Remove, clean the board with a solder wick, try wiping a thin layer of solder paste on the chip ( while it is upside down and alone ) to attempt to have it reball with out a stencil
I am confused by the concept of reflowing... Can someone tell me why it is "safe" to heat up chips to 400+ degrees, when cpus like intel chips have a tjmax of 100 or thereabouts degrees (start to break when they go over this) ???
Not sure if it works on the consumer models, but on the pro version on the LG screens you can enter the service menu with a regular remote. Press and hold menu until the menu disappears, then press 0 (zero) 4 times and the set or OK button. And if you have a samsung screen you turn it off, press mute 182 and power on, and the service menu should appear. Be vary careful in the samsung service menu, you can actually brick the screen.
So weve got an older sanyo flatscreen, its a 19 inch flatscreen from around 2010-2011, dont have the model handy at the moment, but anyways, you turn it on and it displays picture for a few seconds and then the screen goes black but keeps playing audio. In your expert opinion, what would you think this would be? easy fix? i figure maybe its the main board or maybe even the backlight driver going out, im fairly good with electronics but i just want to get a good point of reference to start. If you have any information for me id appreciate it and ill also get the model. Model number is either DP13649 or DP15649 Manufactured by Sanyo May 2009
I like how Dave only decides to do the right thing after he does it the wrong way. :P You needed the very liquidy flux to slide under the BGA from the start. And NOT TOUCH IT. And good use of Kapton tape at the end.
9:00 32KBI$, 32KBD$, 1MB L2 $. That's creative. What I think happened is that because cash and cache are pronounced the same (at least in non-Aussie English) someone symbolized cache with a dollar sign.
Hi Dave. Thank you for sharing this with us. You could have scrapped this edition and we would have been none the wiser. Instead, you chose to share it, "oops!" and all, and I applaud you for that. It takes courage and a strong sense of confidence to share mistakes with others, including the supercilious egomaniacs of the world who feel compelled to tell you how much better they would have handled this. I do hope their insensitive remarks don't offend you. Your videos are as educational as they are entertaining, and I thank you for sharing!
Cracked joints can usually by identified by applying pressure to the top of the BGA while its running. Look for the picture changing. Failing that try heating and cooling the BGAs one at a time while it's running. The expansion and contraction will often show intermittent faults, but also temporarily fix o/c joints by breaking through the oxide. The PCB vias under hot BGAs can often fail due to expansion and contraction, it's not always the solder joints. The DDR RAM chips can fail. We often have issues with them not going down properly in the first place because they're so light. We find the larger metal topped BGAs usually go down okay, but suffer more expansion contraction fractures longer term, so I always suspect the hotter running chips.
I've been there too and learned the leason. Once you poked that chip I remembered myself doing this on a friend's laptop (bought him a new laptop from my pocket).
I replaced a defective mainboard in one of these about 1.5 years ago, it was displaying a cycle of red/green/blue/white/black constantly and wouldn't respond. Board cost around $220 and I sold the TV for $1400, not bad.
Haha really enjoyed this video, great fun in the troubleshooting bit, shame the chip moved but I'm sure that can be fixed. That URSA9 looked like it was cooking in there, brown on the underside of the PCB!
On my older LG TV there is a way to drop into a human friendly built in debugger from the serial port. I can peek and poke registers. Maybe some of the same commands work. Some people even got as far as replacing the Linux kernel.
Lets say this fault could be fixed by a successful reflow, would applying a force to the chips in turn help diagnose which is the culprit. I am assuming that it was once working and if it is a failed solder ball then it must only be a hairline fault and a small force would temporarily re-make the connection.
I'm going to send you some flux. You clearly do not have enough. :'(
Don't delay...
@Louis Rossmann : Don't delay, send it today :-)
Good advice from the Flux-Man himself!
He used about 1/10 of a Paul of flux
This job probably needs about 4 Paul's of flux since it's a bigger board and bigger chips
Don't give up, try reballing yourself, audience wanna see continuation Dave.
Looks like a job for paul to me!
Some people admire Elon Musk, I just admire people who are able to reball BGA chips on daily basis...
thats what i am going to comment.... 😁
Such a video might get banned… o.0
How does one reball oneself?
Amateur mistake, but no worries, I've done it too. Never poke huge BGAs like that when heated. The pin pitch is very small, and you're almost guaranteed to form solder bridges. Watch out for the board warping temporarily from heat too. That in itself can cause solder bridges to form, or it can cause other BGA chips to lose connections. The board needs to be supported so that it remains flat when heated. Flux will NOT "undo" solder bridges. The surface tension will keep them together due to the small pitch. As long as you didn't short power to data, no damage should be done. This is generally unlikely anyways since power and data pins tend to be far apart for integrity purposes.
It will have to be reballed. It's not difficult to do, unless the ball pattern is something particularly weird. Since you've killed it already, just heat+lift the chip and take a look at the underside (you can take tweezers with L-shaped ends, bend the tips slightly so that they grab onto the chip's edges, and this way you can lift evenly/vertically). Make sure you do so with minimum "pulling", since otherwise you can rip out pads. Measure pin pitch (since that's difficult, you can just measure the distance between 10 balls and divide - less error that way), order a cheap stencil from eBay along with some solder balls, get some proper BGA flux (I use Kingbo RMA-218 which works very well and doesn't stink) and watch some tutorials. :) Do this not because you need to or because it's financially sensible, but just to have the experience so that future situations become simpler to deal with. How can you be the #1 electronics blogger without at least some successful experience reballing chips. Come on Dave! :) :)
I +1 this.
Has he never seen @Louis Rossmann work ?
Dave says that he has fanned out huge BGA packages at Altium, then why does he ignore the known fact that the pitch is tiny ?
E: I think the attitude of "No script, No fear" is biting him in the arse.
Recently, on the calculator video, he was very mumbling. I think the reason for this could be
1. He wanted a quick video out, so did no do itsy bitsy research
2. He is moving the lab, it has occupied a lot of part of processing power of his brain...?
3. The power capacitors of his brain are now old and puffed, may need replacing ..🤣
Excellent advice. BGA rework is just hard! ;)
@@xMalhardeshmukh I'm pretty sure Louis and Dave know each other, and I assume they've seen each other's work (Louis has mentioned him before). Dave knew he made an error here and I'm sure he knows how to reball it, it's just something he probably hasn't done in a really long time so has apprehensions about it (and it's not easy unless you are well practised)
We can't do it ALL now can we. :) :)
Yes I know. that was sarcastic .@@schr4nz
When I worked at Nintendo at Kirkland, we had all the kit; Mantis microscopes, fancy Hakko soldering stations, air-pencils, vacuum rigs...you name it!
One bit of training they did was to allow folks to bring in dead consumer electronics with an eye at fixing them in the shop.
Get in a lot of practice working on other peoples mistakes!
A buddy brought in an LG TV, and over the course of 3 months every dang IC and transistor had been flowed off the PCB, cleaned, examined, put back on wrong, removed, broken, replaced, put back on right, you name it!
In the end it was a partly shorted by-pass capacitor...swollen electrolytic, nobody saw it!
Check yer basics first!
Working at Nintendo... I would love an old 2DS motherboard schematic... Have one here that doesn't power up (LED goes blue, stays few seconds, slight pop and turns off), can't find the fault to save my life. Not the screen having bad connection, nor screen itself (tested even with another 2DS screen).
That TV seems to have been molested way past repair point... Did you guys manage to fix it in the end or did all the molesting kill too many ICs inside to make it possible?
Come on don't give up.
I'm not sure if your name falls between 3.11 and 95, or if it's still to come...
I think the issue is quite obvious: You didn't use enough flux! Check out Louis Rossman to see what an adequate amount of flux is.
Yeah you need at least one milliPaul of flux, that's like a microPaul or something. Totally inadequate.
Its 2 parts flux, 1 part PCB.
The bigger the glob, the better the job.
@The Dollar Guy
Is that by weight or by volume?
@Dave Micolichek pretty sure he doesn't get along with Louis Rossmann either :P
Service flow chart: Abnormal display ----> place in dumpster.
JohnAudioTech More great surface mount garbage, modern electronics is sure going down the $h!utter, no quality, hard to repair.
The right bga stencial solder paste and whit the stuff he have tv can be alive again or just ebay the pcb for like 50€ you can find the pcb and new tv.
IF the panel is ok the repair worth on 4 years old or less tv.
Then some guy comes along
"oh look, a tv. I wonder what's wrong with it ???"
@@scottb721 Or not, because if you're a nice person you'll write on it what's wrong with it!
or give to Dave Jones.
for those who don't know, chris gammell is his co-host for The Amp Hour, a podcast about electronics
@@Dead_Ringer They only recently met in real life, having done the podcast for years and years.
IT'S THE DECODE ENGINE RAM!!! It HAS to be either that or the decode engine in the main chip itself - thats where the signal is being blocked. The signal is fed from there to the [B] Engine block which handles the OSD etc and clearly is working fine. The decode engine and the [B] Engine have separate DDR3 controllers, so the ram fault isnt affecting it. The display output looks like classic VRAM issues. A RAM fault is also vastly more likely than a processor fault
Mijc Osis Yes... It is not even Samsung RAM..
nothing is being decoded when you play HDMI source
but yes it can be ram for en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XD_engine
Well even if it is the ram, now it has more than one fault, oops.
My thought as well, GUI memory/frame buffer is ok, but not the memory/frame buffer for the video decoder.
I was thinking the same. But now it's significantly harder to be sure.
phones without ir blaster work just fine.
get the IR code as a pcm wav / audio file, hook up a ir or even red led to the 3.5mm jack (if you got one lol) and play the file. i entered my lg tv service menu this way many times.
Does it really have enough power and voltage to drive a LED? What can the jack do?
ur phone sucks my phone has ir
a red / ir one of course, their Vf is right at the peak of what a headphone jack can deliver (note: amplified headphone jack not just line-out which is just 1 Vpp).
the led isnt running at much power, a red one is barely lighting up but its enough for the sensitve ir receivers to detect it when holding it like 1cm infront. certainly less than what most headphones require.
link to a write up or something?
does phone amp has enough output power / frequency response at 38 KHz for IR ?
openlgtv.org.ru/wiki/index.php/Access_hidden_service_menus_/_modes#Simple_improvised_home_brew_IR_transmitter
Dave, would you like to go for another round, may be re-balling the chip. Don't give up
Good to see Dave come a gutser every now and then. Makes me feel a little bit better.
COM port is for interfacing with an component controller. (Home automation type stuff.)
Ah, thanks.
and the protocol is an ask and answer type thing... so you have to know how to initiate comms!
It's the decoder RAM, because you have image movement, it's communicating but reading/writing wrong bits. But I think you toasted it, these operations must be temperature controlled
the instant he tapped that chip a little too hard, I was like "it's f**ked". good try tho. time to find a reball stencil
Some initial tests for BGA would be applying pressure with your finger while TV is on and looking for any change in picture, cooling and or heating chip when TV is on looking for a change in picture. When attempting reflow look at near by soldered components for any solder melt which would indicate that the BGA is also melted instead of touching chip for movement.
Well reflowing that chip, changed the output... So either you fixed something partly, or you just broke it completely and the error was actually before that chip, and because you broke it you didn't even get far enough to encounter the original problem.
That's *LEAD FREE* solder for ya!
did you try to heat it /cool it while it was powered on?
Let me shed some light as to why the RS232 Codes are listed in the consumer manual. This is a former top of the line, home cinema TV. Most professional and home made installs for home cinemas work with universal remotes who send RS 232 codes via wire to devices such as the amplifier ,tv , screen and sometimes even curtains and such. Hence these are included because the consumer really does need them. I worked in a small scale cinema (1 screen) for about 5 years and we used this system.
Exactly. Well said.
Why, then, does it have built-in speakers that don't look removable?
I'll cast another vote for a Dave Jones Loius Rossman shared universe! But yeah shipping between these countries is either super slow or super expensive.
my money is on that black ram chip
thats racist!!!4444
Reball it! You can listen to Tom Petty's "Re-balling" to pass the time while doing it.
I think you meant the video decoder. The encoder would be for recording stuff, decoding is what was to be done to view video encoded in codec x.
@ 20:33 is that a service switch that you press once connected to the RS-232?
Looks an awful lot like an GPU with failed GDDR so i would suspect the RAM of either U14 or URSA9
That is a high spec tv and worth fixing being only a few years old and comparing it to current model tv's (4K res, 200hz refresh rate, LED localised dimming, decent built in sound for a tv), so even if you have to buy a whole board to get it going after a couple of vids of you trying to fix it with what you have it would be worth it. RRP was $4599.00 when it left the market, average sell under $4000.00. brand new main boards available on ebay for $588.00 and $22.00 postage from melbourne. probably sell it second hand for $1500 easy once fixed if you could not find a use for it at home. i am a video junkie and i also sell TV's for a living and I would be more than happy to have this as one of my tv's.
Is there a reball try video? I could not find it and this is a year old video.
Aw, poor BGA has it's balls all mixed up now :(
Too bad shipping to the states would cost probably as much as the TV itself, I like the "ship it to Louis Rossmann" ideas. It'd probably be an interesting challenge for him..
Was it me, or at 19:08 did the board look a little discoloured behind the LGE7411 chip?
You need a unit with a smashed panel..Cheap
Not that cheap
unless he's really hurting for a TV, might be better to offer up his working panel on eBay for someone who has smashed theirs
Does Dave sell anything?
@@Sharklops imagine the postage price for this absolute unit
@@Sharklops Not sure how he calculates his cost per hour of work (for a UA-camr it's likely: work as much as possible while fitting everything else in your schedule and receive a huge variation of revenue), but a few days of work is probably not worth the cost of a TV for him, unless he receives revenue greater than the value of his time spent on this. Not sure, but it doesn't seem like he would save any money by spending the time on it.
However, there's the fun factor and if he wasn't going to be productive anyways, then it's worth it! I would personally do it for two reasons. 1) I don't have a 4K TV at the moment and 2) there are times during the weekend where I don't want to be doing my job but don't mind working on a project.
I don't see ads because ad blockers.
Do you have Adblock on the LG TV app?
That's great for your computer. But when you're watching UA-cam on your phone or smart tv, that doesn't work. Most purple watch UA-cam on their phone. Usually the only people who watch UA-cam from a computer are people who work from home or don't have a job.
@Andrew Delashaw For mobile, use "UA-cam Vanced". All the benefits of premium without having to pay google.
Watch some ads. It won’t hurt you!
@@xenonram I don't use the youtube app on my phone or tablet.
Ad blockers work on phone, tablets if you use a browser to access youtube. :)
22:08 "so you gotta be looking carefully for it... so hopefully those joints get hot enough"
good one! got me to stop what I was doing and look at the screen.
I used to reflow BGA for phones, flux is a must, and the trick is to lightly bump the corner of the chip to know that it's reflow-ed properly
it was only 784 ball chip. just reball and test :)
Here I am 2 years later, watching this EEVblog episode and UA-cam break for commercials. The commercial was about LG OLED TV :D. What are the odds :p
Now we definitively want to see you repair this TV ! Is like a personal challenge for you .:)
From the looks of it the service manual was suggesting cracked soldering for a similar image issue to yours.
I guess that 500 may have been too much for that board. Look at the discolouration around the area you heated. Or was that the flux messing with the coating?
As per your guide in this video was reflowing my old tube TV to get youtube app on it, dick severely burned, instructions unclear! UA-cam app doesnt show up on any channel. Is it cause mine has no remote capabilities?
what does Kapton tape do? does it stop the heat from getting to other components?
how'd you get the service manual for the television?
how did you get the maintenance manual?
You’ve gotta get this thing working! Please do a part 2. I have the 55” model of this TV, so this is particularly interesting to me. Anyone know where to get that document?
Time to call Louis Rossmann
Paul daniels is somewhat local and might venture outside the apple ecosystem.
to dump more flux on it!
Wow. LG being great.I guess you might have gotten this board to work if you had studied bit more before doing stuff for it. That garble pattern was oddly specific and might show up in troubleshooting of panels in general. I dont think reflow would have helped here.I also had few panels to fix a while ago. Could not do anything because the backlight crumbled into pieces when touched. Had no idea how to give it new light that'd match the panel.
Henri Tuhola Just seems like bad graphics RAM where the decoder / framebuffer is working.
Of you connect to a smart dvd/br player where the graphics processor is built in to the dvd/br would it still use the onboard chip that is damaged?
Those service manuals assume board swapping. The days of narrowing down a particular component because of the service manual are gone. You have to use your instincts. The original problem looks to be like a video codec problem - something probably related to MP4 video since the problem only occurs in video streams. So whatever chip handles the codec for MP4 - that would be my target.
Dave would make a great video to see you trying to re-ball that chip. I think a lot of people would like to see too. These try to fix it videos are excellent.
Try putting the TV in "game mode" and see if it works. Game mode is made to reduce input lag by bypassing post-processing of the image. The game mode might bypass the defective video decoder section of the chip.
How do you get the service manuals?? Is there a specific page?
Be careful with "not used before" flux. The little bottle of flux that i bought at an electronics store not too long ago IS CONDUCTIVE!
Sure, it's a couple kOhms but i don't want it between the gate and drain of a FET in a switching power supply. Little IC's don't like to be powered with 325V DC.
Is it worth doing a hard software reset on the TV?
Might just be some data or values that have become corrupted?
Great video as always Mr Gammell
I'm so much better than that Aussie dickhead!
@@EEVblog That's what you get for using Bing as your search engine, mate :D
In the manual and at 7:16 in the video - I noticed 'gradiation' (right side) seems to match your fault.
Did you try turning it off and on again? ;)
Yes really want to see it alive and kicking again working 100%, don't give up !
19:08 that board looks like toast where the cip was on the other side. Something got way to hot
@19:08 it looks brown under where the URSA chip sits
Did I miss it or wasn't there a thermocouple on that chip while heating ?
Since the BGA was likely screwed up solder by poking it I'd say nothing to lose removing it now...any guides for DIY reballing?
I have to admit I have no clue what I'm doing but I probably would have tried to dribble some very runny flux under the chip until it ran out the other side prior to attempting the reflow....but maybe that too would be a dumb idea
They include the serial commands in the consumer manual because they are used by AV system integrators to connect and control the display via a control system such as Extron, Crestron, AMX, Control4 etc. They wouldn't put it in the service manual since those are rarely shipped with the unit and are not always available online.
Glad to see you gave it a shot.
If it aint broke, fix it until it is!
curious did you mange to fix it ?
Always good to see things not going to plan
my first thought was the MPEG decoder is screwed...but it could possably be the RAM on either the main decoder chip or the U14 or URSA9 chips...looks like a PC graphics card with bad RAM...one of the RAM chips on URSA9 looks to have something on the top (notice you can read the other 3 fine)..the glue blobs maybe there to help keep the chips from lifting under heat stress..
but meh! its dead now!...send it to Louis to have it reballed..he seems to enjoy that crap!
That was my initial thought, one of the ddr3 modules (bga's) is likely toast. Perhaps the pair on the left in the illustration is the framebuffer memory. (the one marked with 16x2 lanes?) That said it could still be a power issue, the chip will consume more power the moment you play video and a PSU rail might be dropping.
"looks like a PC graphics card with bad RAM" was my 1st thought when i saw the 1st video.
Yeah, my bet is on the RAM... It is not even Samsung!
Adding to this the OSD would just be superimposed on the data before going to the LCD panel, so the chip you desoldered likely had little to do with the issue unless there was a problem with the input side of said chip.... you can see that the video selection and OSD is pristine so it would have been the main SoC that was decoding the video where the issue lied, and it didn't look to be the chip you ruined. Also you failed to do the tap test, tap, press, super cool via compressed air trick, bend various areas around the chips and see if symptoms differ... etc.
excellent video, by the way. i love seeing your rationale and troubleshooting process. engineering is all about problem solving after all
Remove, clean the board with a solder wick, try wiping a thin layer of solder paste on the chip ( while it is upside down and alone ) to attempt to have it reball with out a stencil
@27:00 Mac access? Call Louis Rossman....Wheres the flux
I am confused by the concept of reflowing... Can someone tell me why it is "safe" to heat up chips to 400+ degrees, when cpus like intel chips have a tjmax of 100 or thereabouts degrees (start to break when they go over this) ???
Cause he's heating them when the power is off
Not sure if it works on the consumer models, but on the pro version on the LG screens you can enter the service menu with a regular remote.
Press and hold menu until the menu disappears, then press 0 (zero) 4 times and the set or OK button.
And if you have a samsung screen you turn it off, press mute 182 and power on, and the service menu should appear.
Be vary careful in the samsung service menu, you can actually brick the screen.
How much would a replacement board cost?
$200
@@EEVblog might still be better than buying a new TV. Economical and environmental wise.
So weve got an older sanyo flatscreen, its a 19 inch flatscreen from around 2010-2011, dont have the model handy at the moment, but anyways, you turn it on and it displays picture for a few seconds and then the screen goes black but keeps playing audio. In your expert opinion, what would you think this would be? easy fix? i figure maybe its the main board or maybe even the backlight driver going out, im fairly good with electronics but i just want to get a good point of reference to start. If you have any information for me id appreciate it and ill also get the model. Model number is either DP13649 or DP15649 Manufactured by Sanyo May 2009
I like how Dave only decides to do the right thing after he does it the wrong way. :P You needed the very liquidy flux to slide under the BGA from the start. And NOT TOUCH IT. And good use of Kapton tape at the end.
9:00 32KBI$, 32KBD$, 1MB L2 $. That's creative. What I think happened is that because cash and cache are pronounced the same (at least in non-Aussie English) someone symbolized cache with a dollar sign.
@@YourMotherSucksCocksInHell Interesting. Do you have a reference that using a dollar sign to denote cache is a common thing?
Where does one find technical and/or service manuals, such as this one, for consumer-grade electronics? Anyone have a good source for stuff like that?
I can't wait for you to hit a million subs. You need a play button in your office!!!
Probaly find it is one failed resistor or capasitor next to the chip.
Keep going Dave, we want to see it fixed!
how much is it to buy a new board
Shades of a repair I have done a couple of times on old PS3 following the “Gilksy guide”.
Hi Dave. Thank you for sharing this with us. You could have scrapped this edition and we would have been none the wiser. Instead, you chose to share it, "oops!" and all, and I applaud you for that. It takes courage and a strong sense of confidence to share mistakes with others, including the supercilious egomaniacs of the world who feel compelled to tell you how much better they would have handled this. I do hope their insensitive remarks don't offend you. Your videos are as educational as they are entertaining, and I thank you for sharing!
Great stuff doing the trouble shooting procedure. Really interesting watch.
I hope you attempt a BGA reball, even if all we learn is what not to do.
Chris Gammell of contextual electronics, I think he's on a pretty famous podcast...
So far your videos have been interesting, but how can you think now that reflow will help?
Nicely done Mate. Thumbs up! You gave it a go. More than I woulda. Id a just changed the board.
NO flux? Blasphemy!
Edit: bumped it a bit too much, time for reballing
Cracked joints can usually by identified by applying pressure to the top of the BGA while its running. Look for the picture changing. Failing that try heating and cooling the BGAs one at a time while it's running. The expansion and contraction will often show intermittent faults, but also temporarily fix o/c joints by breaking through the oxide. The PCB vias under hot BGAs can often fail due to expansion and contraction, it's not always the solder joints. The DDR RAM chips can fail. We often have issues with them not going down properly in the first place because they're so light. We find the larger metal topped BGAs usually go down okay, but suffer more expansion contraction fractures longer term, so I always suspect the hotter running chips.
I've been there too and learned the leason. Once you poked that chip I remembered myself doing this on a friend's laptop (bought him a new laptop from my pocket).
Why is it split screen at the end? Like one half shows different stuff than the other half?
At least we know the MAC Address for the tomb stone ;-)
This should be called "Why there are so few TV repair shops left."
Hey Dave, there's LGE7411 chips for cheap on ebay, might be fake, but worth a try?
I replaced a defective mainboard in one of these about 1.5 years ago, it was displaying a cycle of red/green/blue/white/black constantly and wouldn't respond. Board cost around $220 and I sold the TV for $1400, not bad.
Is it just me are does that ram chip @18:25 look kinda like it got really Hot. IC2600
Haha really enjoyed this video, great fun in the troubleshooting bit, shame the chip moved but I'm sure that can be fixed. That URSA9 looked like it was cooking in there, brown on the underside of the PCB!
On my older LG TV there is a way to drop into a human friendly built in debugger from the serial port. I can peek and poke registers. Maybe some of the same commands work. Some people even got as far as replacing the Linux kernel.
Is there next video about this TV ?
Same thing happened to me at one point,replaced the board and where the chip is,I placed a fan and heatsink on it and now it runs cool-ish
Lets say this fault could be fixed by a successful reflow, would applying a force to the chips in turn help diagnose which is the culprit. I am assuming that it was once working and if it is a failed solder ball then it must only be a hairline fault and a small force would temporarily re-make the connection.