⚠️Any keyless entry car should have been designed with simple ON/OFF switch on the key fobs. Owners can switch them off when not in the car. Keep it simple. 1000's of cars could have been prevented from getting stolen. PLUS Fob battery life will be lengthened
Hi Richard Firstly thank you for your time and efforts regarding JLR INSURANCE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF I AM 78 years young I purchased a Range Rover Sport 2018 in September 2022 insured it for £1200 Renewed in 2023 my existing insurer declined to renew got many quotes in excess of 10K eventually insured with 1st central for £3600.00 I live in Bromley at SUNDRIDGE park mansion half a mile from main road behind electric gates in centre of golf course I use krooklok all the time even when shopping in Sainsbury’s or parking anywhere parked overnight outside my apartment waiting 2 feet from my lounge Got several cars to drive Cover approx 2000 miles per year 9years max no claims Where will it end dreading renewal quotes for 2024 Regards Jack follows Well done you
Our 2018 DISCOVERY SPORT L550 was stolen from the driveway 2 days after having the updated software installed and being told no longer to use faraday pouch!
Where are all these cars going , getting 1600 plus RR Sport through our Ports and 1000s more of various models suggests a worrying lack of security at our borders , perhaps if this was tightened up it may go someway to stopping the tide. I wont hold my breath ...!!!!!
Fixing the problem is great, all of your hard work is much appreciated. Unfortunately, insurance co's will not relinquish the additional premium costs associated.
Whilst you have their ‘most secure car’ you should have it tested and see how locked down it is by having a ‘pro’ see how quick they can bypass the new security measures
Great update thanks So we have the WLB key, the latest update and JLR won’t back us on the insurance…. Time for them to put their money where their mouth is !
Great work. my 2019 RRS goes in for the update next Tuesday at JLR's Knutsford dealership. Still as far as I'm concerned there current MD needs sacking/replacing and won't buy again until he's gone and the parts backorder issues are resolved. We should have never got to this point period.
I have a 2020 Evoque when I heard about this security up date I rang JLR Jardine of Tonbridge booked the car in, up date took an hour. Also had a free valet, great coffee too. Great service
Having watched this and heard about the levels and effectiveness of the security updates that has gone into vehicle theft deterrent, I now feel more confident about purchasing one of these vehicles
Well done Richard, really useful info on the UWB key. If only the dealers were as quick as you getting things done. My 2019 fullfat was in twice in December for issues and each time I asked them to do the security update and was told both times mine wasn’t on the list requiring it. Yesterday I got the letter and they can’t fit me in until March 6th!!! Thanks again,great job.
He’s just made it quite clear there is no update for the older security and owners with the older key are on there own, there only interested in people who has bought new ish 2018 models and from a main dealer, that’s that list there working on
Just as a side issue when i sold my 2017 RR Sport SVR in 2019 (im in the midlands) the remote app still worked a week later..i could see the car was in Bristol so i remotely started it for a laugh..don’t know if it actually did start but my access to app was deleted the same day.
Good work Richard but as others have said why have LR only told us now about the different keys, my LR has got the new key which means that I've been needlessly putting both keys religiously inside Faraday pouches at night. Although is their any real evidence that LR's with these keys are not still being stolen by thieves, as I can't recall LR claiming that's the case like they are with the latest shape RR's? If they aren''t then why is it so difficult to obtain insurance on LR's using the latest keys?
Great to get some more information but sadly doesn't feel like there's much in the way of progress for older cars such as my 2014 Disco. It occurs to me that as the newer models get enhanced protection with the associated publicity could the theft focus shift more to slightly older models left vulnerable?
Many thanks for the update Richard - despite the PR flannel from JLR they do seem to be finally taking this seriously, thanks to your efforts, and recognising that engaging with their customers is actually worthwhile. I would be interested to hear how long they think it will take them to get through the 2018+ updates (75k done is interesting, but meaningless if they have another 200k to get through). I’m particularly keen to hear when do they expect to be able to provide meaningful recommendations for those of us that own pre 2018 models. We need more information on what JLR is going to do for us to help us in our conversations with insurers - which non-manufacturer fitted immobilisers would be recommended and approved by both JLR and the Insurance Industry, for example. Until then, keyless entry has been deactivated on my 2016 RR Autobiography and the keys are staying in the microwave (which incidentally now also has a higher resale value…)!
Well, I have a velar 300d hse 2018 as I said before went into dealer in knutsford in December for its service and was told no recalls on my car and thy are clearly not interested in the customer and as one of your video's say its not classed has a recall .I also just watched this video, and my key is the older one, and as the high-risk area ,l live in altrincham the second highest area to London Range Rovers are like ford escorts my insurance said you have the wrong car in the wrong area where do I stand ,also they had my car for days for a service and a fault that I have to rebook in again
Great informative video as always Richard, thanks again for helping all JLR customers understand where we are with JLR ownership security concerns. It’s just a pity that JLR haven’t communicated this information direct to their customers or through their dealerships. If called good PR or customer aftercare. Keep up the good work, thanks again.
I’ve got 2 older Discoveries (2003 & 2016). 2003 has a brilliant security feature - a key you have to insert in a little hole on the steering column. A quaint idea, but amazingly I’ve never lost the key in the car or dropped it somewhere unretrievable under the seat. My son’s 2007 BMW Z4 does the same, but even recharges the key when in the ignition. Sometimes progress isn’t always for the better.
I noticed he didn’t say that warranty will be void if aftermarket security is fitted to your car. Most customers are being told this by their dealer. But insurance won’t insure without additional security.
Great work chap, also good to see some form of strong positive engagement back from LR - I can see a full time role for you acting as a customer liaison ……. not saying you should, but perhaps JLR can see how that using social media in this way and using a good customer advocate like this can perhaps shift opinions on how JLR engages with its customers.
My 2023 Evoque comes with a one year included to the InControl Secure Tracker. I do intend to extend it but I would have thought that with all the present problems JLR would include the subscription for 3 years as with the warranty. The certificate that comes with the tracker says that it is Thatcham Cat 6 approved which concerns me as Thatcham moved from Cat 6 to S7 category in 2019! Also cat S7 is just a tracker, to quote Thatcham "Thatcham Category 6 - A good, reliable entry level system"! I would have thought that a more comprehensive system should be used on such valuable vehicles! The difference between the InControl Secure Tracker and the InControl Secure Tracker Pro - The InControl Secure Tracker is a Thatcham Cat 6 (S7) basic entry level system which "Secure Tracker alerts you and the Stolen Vehicle Tracking Centre if someone tries to steal your vehicle". The InControl Secure Tracker Pro is a better system being Thatcham S5 compliant as it also "Prevents unauthorised keys from starting your vehicle with our cutting-edge authentication technology". Apparently as they are completely different trackers you cannot upgrade from the S7 to the S5 at renewal. What a cheapskate of JLR not to put the best system on a £57K vehicle!!!! In fact they should have put the highest level of Thatcham approved tracker that is 5+ as this includes an immobiliser.
So the cars that are being stolen that have the UWB tech (2018-2022) are due to the thieves gaining access to the car then cloning the keyfob. He is suggesting that the access is gained due to the car not being locked or not double locked (i.e. double locked enables deadlocked and movement sensors). Are they been stolen any other way (e.g. access to the Canbus)? If you haven't locked your vehicle you should be notified eventually by the InControl App (how long does that take and mobile signal permitting). But double locking suggests to me that it should be the other way round, i.e. single lock deadlocks and movement sensors, then double lock disables both incase you have a pet in the car.
Does this suggest that the 2023, 2024 models cannot have the keyfob cloned as this is the enhancement that is being done to 2018-2022 models which have the UWB tech? If this is true then what are the theft statistics for the 2023+ models which have all the security system updates? If any are being stolen then how (car jacking?- difficult if autolocked when driving)?
All positive news for new vehicles and those registered 2018 onwards, but a suck it and see approach for the older models is disappointing and disingenuous to loyal customers. Just because my vehicle is our of warranty should not be given as a reason to shirk off any commitment to a full resolution that satisfies insurers. Have they considered outsourcing the resolution to a third party who can develop under license and exclusively cater for older vehicles? Just a thought as there may be a little more appetite shown if someone can make a margin!
It's the brand new cars that have been getting stolen the most by far. So much so that insurance companies now refuse to insure. That bad JLR do their own policy now.
Excellent Richard. Well done for getting JLR to enter in dialogue with you for the good of all. Also a big shout out to JLR themselves for having the were with all to openly tackle your challenge 👏👌
I got a letter from JLR to book in for the security update, booked in for yesterday Wednesday waiting appointment, then told could be 3 to 5hours, so cancelled and rebooked for next week, when my wife will pick me up and we can come back later for it. Vertu Motors at Bolton are quite lacks with there appointment timings. (past experiane of this)
Thank you again for this update Richard. My 2019 RR Sport….JLR security upgrade letter arrived Monday…booked into Pentland Stirling on Friday…’wait for the car’…’about an hour and a half’….’take both keys.’ We’ll see how this goes. Best regards.
So confused by this whole situation. Here is someone living in Stirling, who has received the upgrade letter, but I live in Birmingham and haven't. I thought they were sending them to higher-risk customers?
The people that need to be convinced the most are the insurance companies. My guess is that it will be a long time before premiums reduce. This situation is the exact replica of that that occurred with hot hatches. The insurance companies were once bitten twice shy then.
Interesting discussion for sure, this is the first time I’ve been made aware of there being two different key fobs. From my perspective it’s good to know that however it shouldn’t take your self and Utube to highlight this to customers a major lapse via my dealerships and JLR. My Velar is October 2018 and has the older style key fob, both of my nearest dealers have stated my VIN is not on the current list so I guess it’s just a case of waiting until that changes. Thanks Richard excellent stuff much appreciated 👍
That is because the "security update" is not to the UWB tech for the key but to the cloning of of the UWB keyfob via the Canbus. The tech on vehicles that do not have the UWB keyfob is completely different.
I guess there will end up being a two tier insurance price for those that haven’t had the mod to those that have. There will be pressure on JLR to modify all of them I would think.
i have a MY24 RR Autobiography, registered Nov 23, but i had an urgent recall for a security update, just two weeks ago. It was so important, i had two phone calls from LR central backed up by email. I went on line and booked the car in for thye next day at a time convenient to me. So, it would appear that NOT all LR products after 2022 have these security updates. Since that update there has been a major batery drain issue. When the car is locked and after two minutes, something starts running under the bonnet; a motor/pump. After two days of not driving, a battery warning appears on the dashboard. If i could leave the car unlocked, which after this security update, unless the key is inside, YOU CAN'T - it locks itself after a few minutes. How frustrating!!!
Great information Richard , I do think jlr are trying to sort this mess that’s for sure . However we don’t live in city and our discovery sport just had 100% increase on insurance , this along with the depreciation of the vehicle is just heartbreaking . I did go to Mercedes garage to trade it ! The peanuts they offered me was shocking , I nearly swallowed mi biscuit . Oh the gloating that came from Mercedes garage was difficult to listen too . I am afraid this is going to take many more years to sort , I will get shut of our sport , and I defo won’t be going back to landrover .Keep up the good work 😀
At this stage that's the thing that grates the most; insurance premium has more than doubled whilst the vehicle value has dropped by a huge amount and you/I will never recover that money; what are JLR going to do about that??
My Range Rover has the latest security, a tracker, a Ghost immobilisr and is kept on a property protected by large steel security bollards. The bollards alone make theft from the drive practically impossible. Insurance companies seem unintersted in any of these security measures. My premium is determined only by my postcode and the year and model of the car. The JLR rep refers to having a conversation with your insurance company but that does not seem possible in my experience. Due for renewal in April, but if the premium is up further then ownership becomes uneconomical....
As I thought the pre 2022 models with the old key are not protected from relay theft with the security enhancement only protected from obd key cloning/ emergency starting. Make sure to keep using your faraday bag!!!!!!
Great video as always. Something I feel is odd, why not have a single press activate full security of the car instead of double pressing ? Surely you would want full security far more frequently than partial security. I would think for many people out there that don’t watch videos etc like the older generation of people will press it once and presume all is good and not even know about double pressing, therefore leaving the car more vulnerable and potentially adding to the theft issues. One press (full security) two presses (partial security, if you have a dog or child in the car). Keep up the good work.
If you double click when there are people still in the car, they cannot get out in an emergency. They would literally have to smash a window to escape. I know someone is going to say - don't lock the car at all if there's people in it, but depending where you are parked there can be good security reasons to do so.
The thieves know where the manufacturers trackers and immobilisers are in the cars, hence why we need 3rd party devices such as Ghost 2. No matter how great manufacturers tech is, nothing is preventing the thieves from removing it
On the loan car Richard if it’s fitted please turn off walk away locking and walk towards unlock. It’s a great feature but so inconvenient and in my opinion a risk.
I have a 2019 Velar 180SE. I have the old style key. I don't understand how the JLR security person couldn't be clearer on when the new keys started to be used. It would also have helped for him to be clearer on what is being done. Will those of us who have the old non-UWB be upgraded? My car is booked in for 19/2. I'll be interested to see what they do.
Also I’m hearing you can literally drill a hole into the rear boot next to the reg there are 3 wires touch them together and the cars fire straight up no computer scanner needed to steal key codes
I'm not sure this will make a difference with the insurance companies. From what I discussed with them at my renewal because they can't tell which vehicles have which tech they have to class them all the same.
Idea for a car alarm! It lets the thief easily enter the vehicle and start the engine. Then it locks all the doors and closes the windows, disables the gearbox and here's the really good bit! It directs exhaust fumes into the cabin and a message is played through the speakers! "Are you feeling lucky today punk"!
Dear Richard, great video and thank you for your hard work. I have spoken to a few different high end car security companies and they all stated that the current land rover security even with the update is substandard and can be easily bypassed. They have also stated the Ghost immobiliser can also be easily bypassed. Would be great to get your thoughts on this. Many thanks .
Criminals know it’s substandard. Hence they target JLR vehicles. However JLR’s PR machine tries to spin how desirable their cars are being the reason they are nicked, the fact is the security is a joke.
@@Challengetheroad I did some investigation as to why the Autowatch Ghost 2 Immobiliser was not Thatcham approved. This is what I received from Thatcham: "The Ghost immobiliser product does not meet the current Thatcham criteria and is therefore not Thatcham approved, You will neeed to contact the manufacturer for further information as to why the product does not meet the requirements" I therefore got in touch with Autowatch to find out why, they said: "In response to your enquiry , I can confirm that Thatcham do not have a category for Canbus immobilsers that is why we could not apply for accreditation with them" I have emailed Thatcham with the following (as yet no reply): "I am surprised that Thatcham do not recognise such Canbus immobilisers especially since more and more cars have Canbus technology." Still very concerned that fitting of the Ghost 2 immobiliser may invalidate my 3 year warranty as advised by JLR online as hinted at by the JLR security manager.
The other information I received from Autowatch regarding the Ghost 2 you may find interesting and useful: "I have included an email from a company that represent insurance companies that are happy to promote our product if this is helpful: We're happy to confirm the Autowatch Ghost II Canbus Immobiliser was added to the relevant insurance industry digital trading code lists maintained by Polaris in December 2022 following a request from one of our subscribing insurers following discussions with TASSA. The existence of an entry in our code lists allows any insurer providing motor insurance in the UK who use this information for rating purposes in their insurance products to identify your device has been fitted to a vehicle and provide a suitable quotation to the customer. We have no objection with you informing any individual or organisation with whom you transact business that the device is available on the Polaris maintained insurance industry code lists (formally known as the ABI code lists). We also have no issues with you including this on your website and brochures on condition Polaris will be provided in advance with a draft of the wording you wish to use for our approval" Seems as if there are other approval databases other than Thatcham that insurances can use to reduce premiums. Still a bit disgusted that Thatcham haven't moved on with the tech.🤨
I did some investigation as to why the Autowatch Ghost 2 Immobiliser was not Thatcham approved. This is what I received from Thatcham: "The Ghost immobiliser product does not meet the current Thatcham criteria and is therefore not Thatcham approved. You will need to contact the manufacturer for any further information as to why the product does not meet the requirements." I therefore got in touch with Autowatch to find out why, they said: "In response to your enquiry, I can confirm that Thatcham do not have a category for a Canbus immobiliser that is why we could not apply for accreditation with them." I have emailed Thatcham with the following (as yet no reply): "I am surprised that Thatcham do not recognise such Canbus immobilisers especially since more and more cars have Canbus technology."
Ghostwatch 2, had it fitted to a 5 Series BMW and even the BMW technicians didnt know it was fitted. It immobilises the engine when you put it in gear if you havent inputed the code
According to WhatCar the number of Range Rover Sports stolen last year is down 26.6% whereas the number of Land Rover Discovery Sports is UP 15.2%. It would seem thieves are being channelled unintentionally by Land Rover to other vehicles in their range which will inevitably mean even higher insurance premiums for their owners. The security update should be spread across the range and age of Land Rover vehicles which would mean that thieves wouldn’t know which particular vehicles are easier prey.
Thank you Richard, for an interesting and informative update, despite a bit of flowery corporate-yukspeak from Head of Security at various moments through the interview. Reading between the lines, if the UWB keys have been as good as he describes since they went square in 2018, it sounds like the reduction in theft of 2018+ JLR vehicles under their £10M program is rather more down to the fitting and/or activation of a built-in third party immobiliser than anything else - is that a fair assessment? If so, do pre-2018 JLR owners only need fit a similar grade immobiliser to achieve the same anti-theft standard? (Or is it as much about the desirability of a model of vehicle vs effort to steal it?) What most surprised me in this interview was hearing the insurance industry seem unable or unwilling to collectively provide clear guidance on the value - so far as it might impact a vehicle insurance premium - of any one immobiliser product against another - or even lack there-of. Perhaps that’s another avenue of research you might care to take on for the benefit of your viewers - or if I do have the wrong end of the stick, try to explain a little better than the Head of JLR Security. Thanks again for a useful update!
Hi Richard - thanks for the update. My 68 plate Discovery Sport is supposed to be MY19 - first reg Jan 19. It has the 'older' non- NWB key :-(. It sounds like this is the cut off point at the moment as there didn't seem to be any discussion around the options for models with the older key. Keep up the good work - it looks like I'm going to have to wait for phase 2 but if that is the case then maybe they ought not to be referring to the enhancement as improving 2018-2022 cars?
@@TheJonoMahoney What I don't understand is that the new key was UWB anyway which they are saying is harder to relay and that they are updating the car to stop key cloning. . . I'm not sure what they have really added. Seems like smoke and mirrors at this point if that's the cut off. Starting to sound like the PO all over..
To what extent has the CAN bus injection theft 😊😊been mitigated? Increased security from key technology is little use if it can be bypassed easily and quickly. Why do manufacturers put the cost of tracking (and recovery) on the owner? They could easily locate cars using their data systems and pass information to police should they so wish (until thieves disable the car’s comms that is).
I don't understand why he mentions the re-sale of a car and how that is in important? Not living in the UK, so maybe I miss sth. here. In my country there is a central owner register and if a manufacturer needs to contact all owners of a specific car model for an update, this central register can be used to get in contact with them. It doesn't matter who bought the car initially or owned it in between, they are not contacted only the current registered owner.
Hi Richard, great work, did our JLR guy say every 2018 onwards RRs all have UWB tech built in? I own a 2020 model Velar D180 HSE (the most stolen model?) I have the OLS style key!! So the comment that ALL 2018 models onwards is NOT TRUE, also the priority comment does not ring true either as I contacted my dealer (Hatfields) & JLR customer service & was told I’m not on the list yet !!!!
Great video Richard a technologist is always better than the CEO given it’s their discipline. As JLR and hopefully the industry are moving towards UWB wireless radio frequencies it would be a good question to confirm if JLR are applying the newer standard of ultra wide band 802.15.4z as it’s encrypted. Basically it measures the TOF calculation “time of flight’ and can stop relay current attacks as it’s accurate up to 10cm distance… and would know if the owners device is nearer or further away from the request. Resulting in a denial from the attacker. The former A standard has no encryption to my knowledge. Hope that’s not too technical. 😂❤ for everyone’s benefit. It appears for now to be an adequate solution but as he said tech is always on the move much like 256 bit encryption has been breached long ago, but remains a standard for now…
Great work Richard. I hope my 2017 RR SD V8 Autobiography makes the cut. I already have the LR tracker and Autowatch Ghost II immobiliser but it has made no difference when it comes to reducing my insurance premium. Also JLR insurance couldn't quote me. Waste of time really
I did some investigation as to why the Autowatch Ghost 2 Immobiliser was not Thatcham approved. This is what I received from Thatcham: "The Ghost immobiliser product does not meet the current Thatcham criteria and is therefore not Thatcham approved. You will need to contact the manufacturer for any further information as to why the product does not meet the requirements." I therefore got in touch with Autowatch to find out why, they said: "In response to your enquiry, I can confirm that Thatcham do not have a category for a Canbus immobiliser that is why we could not apply for accreditation with them." I have emailed Thatcham with the following (as yet no reply): "I am surprised that Thatcham do not recognise such Canbus immobilisers especially since more and more cars have Canbus technology." The other information I received from Autowatch you may find interesting and useful: "I have included an email from a company that represent insurance companies that are happy to promote our product if this is helpful : We’re happy to confirm the Autowatch Ghost II Canbus Immobiliser was added to the relevant insurance industry digital trading code lists maintained by Polaris in December 2022 following a request from one of our subscribing insurers following discussions with TASSA . The existence of an entry in our code lists allows any insurer providing motor insurance in the UK who use this information for rating purposes in their insurance products to identify your device has been fitted to a vehicle and provide a suitable quotation to the customer. We have no objection with you informing any individual or organisation with whom you transact business that this device is available on the Polaris maintained insurance industry code lists (formerly known as the ABI code lists). We also have no issue with you including this on your website and brochures on condition Polaris will be provided in advance with a draft of the wording you wish to use for our approval."
I know this is largely a LR discussion, but i’m curious now about my Jaguars. 2023 F-Pace SVR has new key 2022 F-Type has old key But we know Jag have been better at resisting these techniques to thieve our motors - but what about my F-Type with the old key? I keep it in a faraday case, as I did the F-Pace, because I didn’t realise the new shape keys are better. Curious now, is the F-Type vulnerable, will JLR offer an upgrade? Or is it protected because it’s a Jaaaag?
@@jonathancollard3710thanks, yeah I always double lock, unless i’m leaving the dog in there - a single lock doesn’t arm the interior sensors 👍🏼 and yes, the faraday case is in action, but odd they couldn’t bring the new tech to a MY22 car but then there doesn’t seem to be a crisis in F-Type thefts… oh well, will just carry on with the basics and hope for the best. I hope this all gets sorted for the LR lads n lasses out there, it’s horrific isn’t it. Richard is doing such a good job.
What’s happening with insurance companies I have seen astronomical hikes and I have ordered a defender 110 X Dynamic D300 HSE due to built in April this year! I might need to cancel my order and lose my deposit
I own a 2020(69) RRS, living near Birmingham - bought from a LR dealer. Have spoken to them, they had now knowledge of any recall or updates required for it, and I haven't heard anything from LR direct. Insurance renewal coming up in 30 days - the market is still suggesting that these cars are uninsurable.
Unfortunately I think the damage is done now. The slow response from LR, the insurance difficulties, the re-sale value. I'm just gonna have to ditch mine and take the hit, and I suspect many others are the same.
@@Challengetheroad it’s the newer key, but surely all post 2020 RRS have those newer keys? If the newer keys are the solution to the theft problem, why aren’t insurers differentiating between those that have the newer key and those that don’t. There seems to be something amiss here
Hi mate av got 2016 on 65 plate older keys do u believe the will be a solution? And do u fink values are going back up or fink values are doomed greatly thanks for your input on the situation great chanle
This is the sort of video Land Rover should have made instead of a somewhat patronising sales spin interview. Being able to identify if you have UWB keys and are not susceptible to the relay key theft is critical for people to know where they are. They also need to be clearer that this feature wasn't rolled out on all models for 2018, and that it's more likely that it was introduced for Range Rover (flagship) and Range Rover Sport. I'd imagine the Velar was probably updated too quite soon being new at that point. I would expect that Discovery Sport and Evoque models didn't get this until the new Evoque and DS appeared in late 2019, early 2020. So it's not a one date cutover. New Discovery would span the cutover potentially. They could have used an approved used vehicle to then demonstrate how to turn off keyless entry. At least then people have a choice on whether to disable (it's a few key presses on the fob) or use some kind of faraday protection. We also need to be honest in that it will not be possible to update non-UWB cars to UWB, as this likely needs lots of new hardware in each car. Also to be fair, this is not just a Land Rover issue, and I don't think any other maker has replaced old keys and receivers with updated ones on cars already built. Happy to be corrected if they have. The next elephant in the room is 3G. To get the benefit of the 'car is unlocked' warning from your phone, if your car supports InControl, you need a valid subscription and then the car can talk to the app over it's built in 3G telematics. However, UK phone providers are in the process of dismantling the 3G network which will render this feature useless in cars with 3G telematics. A list of models for this would be nice. Given that owners of non-UWB keys have the least protection for the thieves getting into the car, it would be helpful if Land Rover think the body or key control modules in these cars with keyless entry can be updated to help prevent theft at all. Again honesty helps here as I'm guessing that if they can relay the key signal, the secondary hole that's being plugged for later models doesn't matter as the car thinks it's a valid key and unlocks/starts. If you have disabled keyless entry and double locked, is it possible to gain entry without causing a fair amount of damage, and if they get in, is the older car still susceptible to that second method? If so, do Land Rover think they can plug it? I thought the security guy came across well, and knew the subject, and thankfully didn't engage in much spin. Exactly what is needed, knowledge. Thank-you Richard for taking the time to do this. 👍
DOUBLE-SPEAK ...reference 1984. I struggle with understanding what is being said ...particularly as to the people with wide band keys but not sure if upgrade needed! I would like to know but don't get a straight answer for JL
Thanks for the updates and your continuing work on this. I assume you will be doing videos on how best to utilise security and the app too? Still not clear on whether extra security like ghost or Pandora is a good idea or not? As mentioned previously these will be installed somewhere different on each install as opposed to the same place every time on oem security? Thoughts?
Great work thanks. I did have a 2018 RR Velar but now have an early MY22 Jaguar I-Pace with Secure Pro (3 years from purchase). Do you know how the issues reflect across to the Jaguar part of JLR?
How did I manage to defeat thieves who tried to steal a Daihatsu Fourtrak, which I had fitted an alarm to for a neighbour? They smashed the alarmto bits, ripped out most of the dashboard, but didn't manage to find how I immobilised the engine! Clever wiring! Takes some time, but stopped them taking the car! The repairers took five weeks to fix the car.
I live in north London . You just cannot get sensible insurance on a Range Rover . I have 2021 car . Last year my insurance was £650 my renewal came in at £14000 with a load of exclusions , hence it’s up for sale . 😢
You have to feel sorry for the Local Youth in the hoodie and Bucket Hat having to walk around with a large TV aerial to improve his Freeview channel reception in the middle of the night and as one once infamous Politician told us you should go outside and give him a hug ...
The suggestion that 2018-2022 cars mostly have the UWB key doesn’t sound right to me. My 2020 Velar has the older key technology which is disappointing given that this relay theft problem was already known and JLR had been fitting UWB keys to ‘some’ models since 2018. Surely once the new technology was being deployed why has it taken more than two years after that to deploy it on all models?
So any idea if the wideband key is compatible with the pre-2018 cars and if the hardware and software in these cars all provide the correct level of security against relay theft? I carry my key in a faraday pouch but if I can go to my insurer with some sort of document from JLR that I have updated keys then are insurers then willing to accept that as an approved security update? JLR need to be talking with the insurance industry because some insurers don't want aftermarket / post manufacture security enhancements even though it makes the car more secure. It is a real mess at the moment.
Great video thanks! Please can you ask how they define the 2018 model year? I.e mines registered as September 2017 but shows up as 2018 model year on my online Land Rover service history 😊.
There are rumours that JLR have gone into partnership with some insurance companies and keep recommending them to jaguar and range rover owners. The problem is that even those insurance companies are asking for an arm and a leg which favours them both as the profit is split between the dealership and the insurance company. If JLR weren't making money out of this they could stop these theft within a week by replacing the ignition modules. They simply don't want to.
Would it be possible to add Face ID as a means of allowing access to the vehicle? By all means have a key, but like an iPhone which uses such technology to unlock it, it’d be almost impossible to steal a car if your facial features aren’t stored in the recognition software.
Additionally, although living rurally in Scotland 40m out from Glasgow i am feeling the impact of this weak spot. Underwriter and Insurer has stopped cover at renewal forcing change. Initital quotes being +50% up on last year. JLR need to update all with equal priority not just high incident Southern based owners.
@Challengetheroad ive completed (twice) the LR online quote and on both occassions they have not quoted. This in spite of clean record and license, 50yrs driving experience, Advanced driver qualification, 9yrs+++ NCD, living rurally 40m out from Glasgow, parked on drive behing gates on remote private road ~ ie not hot spot!
One further point which is that recently I have received an offer from my local dealership of £1k cheque to spend plus £4k off a new Velar. While attractive, considering the security, insurance and plummeting values, the offer is an obvious no-go. JLR have a major brand and technology issue only they can resolve.
Incredible work Richard, thank you for all your hard work in helping so many people out there 🙌🏾
⚠️Any keyless entry car should have been designed with simple ON/OFF switch on the key fobs.
Owners can switch them off when not in the car.
Keep it simple.
1000's of cars could have been prevented from getting stolen.
PLUS
Fob battery life will be lengthened
@@julesviolinJLR think they know better than their ‘clients’
What a disgrace! They WANT cars to be stolen!
Let’s be clear about this, if they wanted to, they could make cars un steal able! I think a class action is required!
This guy is a complete flog!
Hi Richard
Firstly thank you for your time and efforts regarding JLR INSURANCE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF
I AM 78 years young I purchased a Range Rover Sport 2018 in September 2022 insured it for £1200
Renewed in 2023 my existing insurer declined to renew got many quotes in excess of 10K eventually insured with
1st central for £3600.00
I live in Bromley at SUNDRIDGE park mansion half a mile from main road behind electric gates in centre of golf course I use krooklok all the time even when shopping in Sainsbury’s or parking anywhere parked overnight outside my apartment waiting 2 feet from my lounge
Got several cars to drive
Cover approx 2000 miles per year 9years max no claims
Where will it end dreading renewal quotes for 2024
Regards Jack follows
Well done you
"enjoy the security features" weeks test parked up in London would be the ultimate test of LR's confidence
Well my l460 got stolen like others in my country of residence, so wonder if it works…
Put the MD’s sentimental and irreplaceable stuff in the boot while you’re about it.
See how confident and smug he is then.
Our 2018 DISCOVERY SPORT L550 was stolen from the driveway 2 days after having the updated software installed and being told no longer to use faraday pouch!
Where are all these cars going , getting 1600 plus RR Sport through our Ports and 1000s more of various models suggests a worrying lack of security at our borders , perhaps if this was tightened up it may go someway to stopping the tide. I wont hold my breath ...!!!!!
Fixing the problem is great, all of your hard work is much appreciated. Unfortunately, insurance co's will not relinquish the additional premium costs associated.
Whilst you have their ‘most secure car’ you should have it tested and see how locked down it is by having a ‘pro’ see how quick they can bypass the new security measures
Great update thanks
So we have the WLB key, the latest update and JLR won’t back us on the insurance…. Time for them to put their money where their mouth is !
Had my security update by Vertu Land Rover Exeter free health check topped up fluids and a valet while I waited with coffee and biscuits. Thank you 🙏
Great update Richard, it’s the goto channel for this subject 👍
Great work being done here. I wasn’t aware of the double clicking of the lock button on the key fob. I wonder how many more owners are the same.
RTFM
Great content. I have installed security devices to these vehicles for over 20 years and even the new models are being stolen without extra security.
Great work. my 2019 RRS goes in for the update next Tuesday at JLR's Knutsford dealership. Still as far as I'm concerned there current MD needs sacking/replacing and won't buy again until he's gone and the parts backorder issues are resolved. We should have never got to this point period.
I have a 2020 Evoque when I heard about this security up date I rang JLR Jardine of Tonbridge booked the car in, up date took an hour. Also had a free valet, great coffee too. Great service
Having watched this and heard about the levels and effectiveness of the security updates that has gone into vehicle theft deterrent, I now feel more confident about purchasing one of these vehicles
Well done Richard, nice to know about the key differance as well.
Well done Richard, really useful info on the UWB key.
If only the dealers were as quick as you getting things done. My 2019 fullfat was in twice in December for issues and each time I asked them to do the security update and was told both times mine wasn’t on the list requiring it. Yesterday I got the letter and they can’t fit me in until March 6th!!!
Thanks again,great job.
Thanks for keeping the fight with JLR Richard, but to me (and I hope I’m wrong) they wont offer anything pre 2018
Thanks Richard, but as the proud owner of a 2014 RR Sport L494 I’m not holding my breath!
Av got a 2016 finking the same thing myself mate
He’s just made it quite clear there is no update for the older security and owners with the older key are on there own, there only interested in people who has bought new ish 2018 models and from a main dealer, that’s that list there working on
Just as a side issue when i sold my 2017 RR Sport SVR in 2019 (im in the midlands) the remote app still worked a week later..i could see the car was in Bristol so i remotely started it for a laugh..don’t know if it actually did start but my access to app was deleted the same day.
I couldn’t even get an insurance quote for a 2008 model with 25 years of no claims!!!
Thanks Richard for your time and effort in keeping this topic hot with JLR. 🔥
How many customers have been contacted but haven’t got the car anymore as it’s been stolen 😢
Good work Richard but as others have said why have LR only told us now about the different keys, my LR has got the new key which means that I've been needlessly putting both keys religiously inside Faraday pouches at night.
Although is their any real evidence that LR's with these keys are not still being stolen by thieves, as I can't recall LR claiming that's the case like they are with the latest shape RR's? If they aren''t then why is it so difficult to obtain insurance on LR's using the latest keys?
Great to get some more information but sadly doesn't feel like there's much in the way of progress for older cars such as my 2014 Disco. It occurs to me that as the newer models get enhanced protection with the associated publicity could the theft focus shift more to slightly older models left vulnerable?
Many thanks for the update Richard - despite the PR flannel from JLR they do seem to be finally taking this seriously, thanks to your efforts, and recognising that engaging with their customers is actually worthwhile.
I would be interested to hear how long they think it will take them to get through the 2018+ updates (75k done is interesting, but meaningless if they have another 200k to get through).
I’m particularly keen to hear when do they expect to be able to provide meaningful recommendations for those of us that own pre 2018 models.
We need more information on what JLR is going to do for us to help us in our conversations with insurers - which non-manufacturer fitted immobilisers would be recommended and approved by both JLR and the Insurance Industry, for example.
Until then, keyless entry has been deactivated on my 2016 RR Autobiography and the keys are staying in the microwave (which incidentally now also has a higher resale value…)!
Well, I have a velar 300d hse 2018 as I said before went into dealer in knutsford in December for its service and was told no recalls on my car and thy are clearly not interested in the customer and as one of your video's say its not classed has a recall .I also just watched this video, and my key is the older one, and as the high-risk area ,l live in altrincham the second highest area to London Range Rovers are like ford escorts my insurance said you have the wrong car in the wrong area where do I stand ,also they had my car for days for a service and a fault that I have to rebook in again
Insurance is still going up to unaffordable prices on recent models, the insurance companies don't seem very convinced by JLR talk.
Would you believe anything JLR said ? I know I would not.
As we live in rip off Britain it comes as no surprise that the insurance companies are dragging there feet when it comes to lowering the premiums...
I have a 2019 Velar but it has an old style key. When will I be offered an upgrade?
Great informative video as always Richard, thanks again for helping all JLR customers understand where we are with JLR ownership security concerns. It’s just a pity that JLR haven’t communicated this information direct to their customers or through their dealerships. If called good PR or customer aftercare. Keep up the good work, thanks again.
They have told there customers and sent out a letter, my car was upgrades last year!
Unfortunately, that is not the case with everyone
Depends on the age and model of your car
I have a 2018 Evoque with the older key fob what happens now
Great video Richard, thanks for sharing
Really great work Richard. So pleased that your efforts have resulted in such progress.
thank you - we have made real progress
If things are that bad , which they are , why are jlr extending the 12 months tracker and secure pro and reducing the renewal prices 🤔
I’ve got 2 older Discoveries (2003 & 2016). 2003 has a brilliant security feature - a key you have to insert in a little hole on the steering column. A quaint idea, but amazingly I’ve never lost the key in the car or dropped it somewhere unretrievable under the seat. My son’s 2007 BMW Z4 does the same, but even recharges the key when in the ignition. Sometimes progress isn’t always for the better.
I noticed he didn’t say that warranty will be void if aftermarket security is fitted to your car. Most customers are being told this by their dealer. But insurance won’t insure without additional security.
Great work chap, also good to see some form of strong positive engagement back from LR - I can see a full time role for you acting as a customer liaison ……. not saying you should, but perhaps JLR can see how that using social media in this way and using a good customer advocate like this can perhaps shift opinions on how JLR engages with its customers.
why does he keep saying how hard his team are working ? dont they normally work hard ? and what were they all doing before this ? candy crush ?
JLR should make the tracker free and not subscription only
My 2023 Evoque comes with a one year included to the InControl Secure Tracker. I do intend to extend it but I would have thought that with all the present problems JLR would include the subscription for 3 years as with the warranty. The certificate that comes with the tracker says that it is Thatcham Cat 6 approved which concerns me as Thatcham moved from Cat 6 to S7 category in 2019! Also cat S7 is just a tracker, to quote Thatcham "Thatcham Category 6 - A good, reliable entry level system"! I would have thought that a more comprehensive system should be used on such valuable vehicles!
The difference between the InControl Secure Tracker and the InControl Secure Tracker Pro - The InControl Secure Tracker is a Thatcham Cat 6 (S7) basic entry level system which "Secure Tracker alerts you and the Stolen Vehicle Tracking Centre if someone tries to steal your vehicle". The InControl Secure Tracker Pro is a better system being Thatcham S5 compliant as it also "Prevents unauthorised keys from starting your vehicle with our cutting-edge authentication technology". Apparently as they are completely different trackers you cannot upgrade from the S7 to the S5 at renewal. What a cheapskate of JLR not to put the best system on a £57K vehicle!!!! In fact they should have put the highest level of Thatcham approved tracker that is 5+ as this includes an immobiliser.
So the cars that are being stolen that have the UWB tech (2018-2022) are due to the thieves gaining access to the car then cloning the keyfob. He is suggesting that the access is gained due to the car not being locked or not double locked (i.e. double locked enables deadlocked and movement sensors). Are they been stolen any other way (e.g. access to the Canbus)? If you haven't locked your vehicle you should be notified eventually by the InControl App (how long does that take and mobile signal permitting). But double locking suggests to me that it should be the other way round, i.e. single lock deadlocks and movement sensors, then double lock disables both incase you have a pet in the car.
Does this suggest that the 2023, 2024 models cannot have the keyfob cloned as this is the enhancement that is being done to 2018-2022 models which have the UWB tech? If this is true then what are the theft statistics for the 2023+ models which have all the security system updates? If any are being stolen then how (car jacking?- difficult if autolocked when driving)?
All positive news for new vehicles and those registered 2018 onwards, but a suck it and see approach for the older models is disappointing and disingenuous to loyal customers. Just because my vehicle is our of warranty should not be given as a reason to shirk off any commitment to a full resolution that satisfies insurers. Have they considered outsourcing the resolution to a third party who can develop under license and exclusively cater for older vehicles? Just a thought as there may be a little more appetite shown if someone can make a margin!
It's the brand new cars that have been getting stolen the most by far. So much so that insurance companies now refuse to insure.
That bad JLR do their own policy now.
Excellent Richard. Well done for getting JLR to enter in dialogue with you for the good of all. Also a big shout out to JLR themselves for having the were with all to openly tackle your challenge 👏👌
Thank you for these informative videos which is giving Range Rover owners peace of mind . Excellent work Richard 🙂
I got a letter from JLR to book in for the security update, booked in for yesterday Wednesday waiting appointment, then told could be 3 to 5hours, so cancelled and rebooked for next week, when my wife will pick me up and we can come back later for it. Vertu Motors at Bolton are quite lacks with there appointment timings. (past experiane of this)
Thanks for the update , the fact i cant get my 2019 RR booked in for the 'enhancement' i will try to take as a positive in that it must be low risk !
Thank you again for this update Richard. My 2019 RR Sport….JLR security upgrade letter arrived Monday…booked into Pentland Stirling on Friday…’wait for the car’…’about an hour and a half’….’take both keys.’ We’ll see how this goes. Best regards.
So confused by this whole situation. Here is someone living in Stirling, who has received the upgrade letter, but I live in Birmingham and haven't. I thought they were sending them to higher-risk customers?
@@philburtonfrench has no one in Birmingham received a letter from JLR yet?
The people that need to be convinced the most are the insurance companies. My guess is that it will be a long time before premiums reduce. This situation is the exact replica of that that occurred with hot hatches. The insurance companies were once bitten twice shy then.
loving the content dude
Thank you
Thank you for your reply. I have just contacted my dealer and they have told me that my velar is not on the list for a security update.
Interesting discussion for sure, this is the first time I’ve been made aware of there being two different key fobs. From my perspective it’s good to know that however it shouldn’t take your self and Utube to highlight this to customers a major lapse via my dealerships and JLR. My Velar is October 2018 and has the older style key fob, both of my nearest dealers have stated my VIN is not on the current list so I guess it’s just a case of waiting until that changes. Thanks Richard excellent stuff much appreciated 👍
I've got a 2019 velar, old key, also told mine doesn't need doing... or at least not on the list to be done!
Same here I’ve got the older style key fob and my local dealer checked my cars VIN number and was advised the same .
That is because the "security update" is not to the UWB tech for the key but to the cloning of of the UWB keyfob via the Canbus. The tech on vehicles that do not have the UWB keyfob is completely different.
I guess there will end up being a two tier insurance price for those that haven’t had the mod to those that have. There will be pressure on JLR to modify all of them I would think.
i have a MY24 RR Autobiography, registered Nov 23, but i had an urgent recall for a security update, just two weeks ago. It was so important, i had two phone calls from LR central backed up by email. I went on line and booked the car in for thye next day at a time convenient to me. So, it would appear that NOT all LR products after 2022 have these security updates.
Since that update there has been a major batery drain issue. When the car is locked and after two minutes, something starts running under the bonnet; a motor/pump. After two days of not driving, a battery warning appears on the dashboard. If i could leave the car unlocked, which after this security update, unless the key is inside, YOU CAN'T - it locks itself after a few minutes. How frustrating!!!
Great information Richard , I do think jlr are trying to sort this mess that’s for sure . However we don’t live in city and our discovery sport just had 100% increase on insurance , this along with the depreciation of the vehicle is just heartbreaking . I did go to Mercedes garage to trade it ! The peanuts they offered me was shocking , I nearly swallowed mi biscuit . Oh the gloating that came from Mercedes garage was difficult to listen too .
I am afraid this is going to take many more years to sort , I will get shut of our sport , and I defo won’t be going back to landrover .Keep up the good work 😀
At this stage that's the thing that grates the most; insurance premium has more than doubled whilst the vehicle value has dropped by a huge amount and you/I will never recover that money; what are JLR going to do about that??
Thank you, yes no a great situation but pushing as much as I can
My Range Rover has the latest security, a tracker, a Ghost immobilisr and is kept on a property protected by large steel security bollards. The bollards alone make theft from the drive practically impossible. Insurance companies seem unintersted in any of these security measures. My premium is determined only by my postcode and the year and model of the car. The JLR rep refers to having a conversation with your insurance company but that does not seem possible in my experience. Due for renewal in April, but if the premium is up further then ownership becomes uneconomical....
Very informative video thanks a lot
As I thought the pre 2022 models with the old key are not protected from relay theft with the security enhancement only protected from obd key cloning/ emergency starting. Make sure to keep using your faraday bag!!!!!!
Great video as always. Something I feel is odd, why not have a single press activate full security of the car instead of double pressing ? Surely you would want full security far more frequently than partial security. I would think for many people out there that don’t watch videos etc like the older generation of people will press it once and presume all is good and not even know about double pressing, therefore leaving the car more vulnerable and potentially adding to the theft issues.
One press (full security) two presses (partial security, if you have a dog or child in the car).
Keep up the good work.
I agree entirely. I commented the same about single and double pressing
If you double click when there are people still in the car, they cannot get out in an emergency. They would literally have to smash a window to escape. I know someone is going to say - don't lock the car at all if there's people in it, but depending where you are parked there can be good security reasons to do so.
The thieves know where the manufacturers trackers and immobilisers are in the cars, hence why we need 3rd party devices such as Ghost 2. No matter how great manufacturers tech is, nothing is preventing the thieves from removing it
On the loan car Richard if it’s fitted please turn off walk away locking and walk towards unlock. It’s a great feature but so inconvenient and in my opinion a risk.
I have a 2019 Velar 180SE. I have the old style key. I don't understand how the JLR security person couldn't be clearer on when the new keys started to be used.
It would also have helped for him to be clearer on what is being done. Will those of us who have the old non-UWB be upgraded?
My car is booked in for 19/2. I'll be interested to see what they do.
I have a Discovery Sport MY20 and with the new key and I live in rural Dorset. Insurance £650 for retired 75 yr old full NCB etc.
Great work being done and thank you. Hopefully they will do some mod from2012 onwards. 👍👍👍👍
Thanks John, I am pushing for older models resolution
Also I’m hearing you can literally drill a hole into the rear boot next to the reg there are 3 wires touch them together and the cars fire straight up no computer scanner needed to steal key codes
I'm not sure this will make a difference with the insurance companies. From what I discussed with them at my renewal because they can't tell which vehicles have which tech they have to class them all the same.
Idea for a car alarm! It lets the thief easily enter the vehicle and start the engine. Then it locks all the doors and closes the windows, disables the gearbox and here's the really good bit! It directs exhaust fumes into the cabin and a message is played through the speakers! "Are you feeling lucky today punk"!
Dear Richard, great video and thank you for your hard work. I have spoken to a few different high end car security companies and they all stated that the current land rover security even with the update is substandard and can be easily bypassed. They have also stated the Ghost immobiliser can also be easily bypassed. Would be great to get your thoughts on this. Many thanks .
I think ghost etc are good options but have no difference on premium which is frustrating
Criminals know it’s substandard. Hence they target JLR vehicles.
However JLR’s PR machine tries to spin how desirable their cars are being the reason they are nicked, the fact is the security is a joke.
@@Challengetheroad I did some investigation as to why the Autowatch Ghost 2 Immobiliser was not Thatcham approved.
This is what I received from Thatcham:
"The Ghost immobiliser product does not meet the current Thatcham criteria and is therefore not Thatcham approved, You will neeed to contact the manufacturer for further information as to why the product does not meet the requirements"
I therefore got in touch with Autowatch to find out why, they said:
"In response to your enquiry , I can confirm that Thatcham do not have a category for Canbus immobilsers that is why we could not apply for accreditation with them"
I have emailed Thatcham with the following (as yet no reply): "I am surprised that Thatcham do not recognise such Canbus immobilisers especially since more and more cars have Canbus technology."
Still very concerned that fitting of the Ghost 2 immobiliser may invalidate my 3 year warranty as advised by JLR online as hinted at by the JLR security manager.
The other information I received from Autowatch regarding the Ghost 2 you may find interesting and useful:
"I have included an email from a company that represent insurance companies that are happy to promote our product if this is helpful:
We're happy to confirm the Autowatch Ghost II Canbus Immobiliser was added to the relevant insurance industry digital trading code lists maintained by Polaris in December 2022 following a request from one of our subscribing insurers following discussions with TASSA. The existence of an entry in our code lists allows any insurer providing motor insurance in the UK who use this information for rating purposes in their insurance products to identify your device has been fitted to a vehicle and provide a suitable quotation to the customer. We have no objection with you informing any individual or organisation with whom you transact business that the device is available on the Polaris maintained insurance industry code lists (formally known as the ABI code lists). We also have no issues with you including this on your website and brochures on condition Polaris will be provided in advance with a draft of the wording you wish to use for our approval"
Seems as if there are other approval databases other than Thatcham that insurances can use to reduce premiums. Still a bit disgusted that Thatcham haven't moved on with the tech.🤨
I did some investigation as to why the Autowatch Ghost 2 Immobiliser was not Thatcham approved.
This is what I received from Thatcham: "The Ghost immobiliser product does not meet the current Thatcham criteria and is therefore not Thatcham approved.
You will need to contact the manufacturer for any further information as to why the product does not meet the requirements."
I therefore got in touch with Autowatch to find out why, they said:
"In response to your enquiry, I can confirm that Thatcham do not have a category for a Canbus immobiliser that is why we could not apply for accreditation with them."
I have emailed Thatcham with the following (as yet no reply): "I am surprised that Thatcham do not recognise such Canbus immobilisers especially since more and more cars have Canbus technology."
Ghostwatch 2, had it fitted to a 5 Series BMW and even the BMW technicians didnt know it was fitted. It immobilises the engine when you put it in gear if you havent inputed the code
According to WhatCar the number of Range Rover Sports stolen last year is down 26.6% whereas the number of Land Rover Discovery Sports is UP 15.2%. It would seem thieves are being channelled unintentionally by Land Rover to other vehicles in their range which will inevitably mean even higher insurance premiums for their owners. The security update should be spread across the range and age of Land Rover vehicles which would mean that thieves wouldn’t know which particular vehicles are easier prey.
Great content
Thank you Richard, for an interesting and informative update, despite a bit of flowery corporate-yukspeak from Head of Security at various moments through the interview. Reading between the lines, if the UWB keys have been as good as he describes since they went square in 2018, it sounds like the reduction in theft of 2018+ JLR vehicles under their £10M program is rather more down to the fitting and/or activation of a built-in third party immobiliser than anything else - is that a fair assessment? If so, do pre-2018 JLR owners only need fit a similar grade immobiliser to achieve the same anti-theft standard? (Or is it as much about the desirability of a model of vehicle vs effort to steal it?) What most surprised me in this interview was hearing the insurance industry seem unable or unwilling to collectively provide clear guidance on the value - so far as it might impact a vehicle insurance premium - of any one immobiliser product against another - or even lack there-of. Perhaps that’s another avenue of research you might care to take on for the benefit of your viewers - or if I do have the wrong end of the stick, try to explain a little better than the Head of JLR Security. Thanks again for a useful update!
Hi Richard - thanks for the update.
My 68 plate Discovery Sport is supposed to be MY19 - first reg Jan 19.
It has the 'older' non- NWB key :-(.
It sounds like this is the cut off point at the moment as there didn't seem to be any discussion around the options for models with the older key.
Keep up the good work - it looks like I'm going to have to wait for phase 2 but if that is the case then maybe they ought not to be referring to the enhancement as improving 2018-2022 cars?
I have a March 19 Velar, also has old key....the brand is in a crises & saying anything at the moment to dig themselves out of it!
@@TheJonoMahoney What I don't understand is that the new key was UWB anyway which they are saying is harder to relay and that they are updating the car to stop key cloning. . .
I'm not sure what they have really added. Seems like smoke and mirrors at this point if that's the cut off. Starting to sound like the PO all over..
To what extent has the CAN bus injection theft 😊😊been mitigated? Increased security from key technology is little use if it can be bypassed easily and quickly.
Why do manufacturers put the cost of tracking (and recovery) on the owner? They could easily locate cars using their data systems and pass information to police should they so wish (until thieves disable the car’s comms that is).
I don't understand why he mentions the re-sale of a car and how that is in important? Not living in the UK, so maybe I miss sth. here. In my country there is a central owner register and if a manufacturer needs to contact all owners of a specific car model for an update, this central register can be used to get in contact with them. It doesn't matter who bought the car initially or owned it in between, they are not contacted only the current registered owner.
Richard- used Land Rover prices on the rise. 2 mths ago Motorway offered £35k for my 22 Velar now upto £40k. Something is working?
Hi Richard, great work, did our JLR guy say every 2018 onwards RRs all have UWB tech built in? I own a 2020 model Velar D180 HSE (the most stolen model?) I have the OLS style key!! So the comment that ALL 2018 models onwards is NOT TRUE, also the priority comment does not ring true either as I contacted my dealer (Hatfields) & JLR customer service & was told I’m not on the list yet !!!!
I seeing this a lot on comments and noted for next call 👍
I think it was 2018 for FFRR
Many thanks Richard, LUV the Velar, but currently HATE dealership & JLR🥺
Great video Richard a technologist is always better than the CEO given it’s their discipline. As JLR and hopefully the industry are moving towards UWB wireless radio frequencies it would be a good question to confirm if JLR are applying the newer standard of ultra wide band 802.15.4z as it’s encrypted. Basically it measures the TOF calculation “time of flight’ and can stop relay current attacks as it’s accurate up to 10cm distance… and would know if the owners device is nearer or further away from the request. Resulting in a denial from the attacker. The former A standard has no encryption to my knowledge. Hope that’s not too technical. 😂❤ for everyone’s benefit. It appears for now to be an adequate solution but as he said tech is always on the move much like 256 bit encryption has been breached long ago, but remains a standard for now…
Great work Richard. I hope my 2017 RR SD V8 Autobiography makes the cut. I already have the LR tracker and Autowatch Ghost II immobiliser but it has made no difference when it comes to reducing my insurance premium. Also JLR insurance couldn't quote me. Waste of time really
I did some investigation as to why the Autowatch Ghost 2 Immobiliser was not Thatcham approved. This is what I received from Thatcham:
"The Ghost immobiliser product does not meet the current Thatcham criteria and is therefore not Thatcham approved. You will need to contact the manufacturer for any further information as to why the product does not meet the requirements."
I therefore got in touch with Autowatch to find out why, they said:
"In response to your enquiry, I can confirm that Thatcham do not have a category for a Canbus immobiliser that is why we could not apply for accreditation with them."
I have emailed Thatcham with the following (as yet no reply):
"I am surprised that Thatcham do not recognise such Canbus immobilisers especially since more and more cars have Canbus technology."
The other information I received from Autowatch you may find interesting and useful:
"I have included an email from a company that represent insurance companies that are happy to promote our product if this is helpful :
We’re happy to confirm the Autowatch Ghost II Canbus Immobiliser was added to the relevant insurance industry digital trading code lists maintained by Polaris in December 2022 following a request from one of our subscribing insurers following discussions with TASSA .
The existence of an entry in our code lists allows any insurer providing motor insurance in the UK who use this information for rating purposes in their insurance products to identify your device has been fitted to a vehicle and provide a suitable quotation to the customer.
We have no objection with you informing any individual or organisation with whom you transact business that this device is available on the Polaris maintained insurance industry code lists (formerly known as the ABI code lists). We also have no issue with you including this on your website and brochures on condition Polaris will be provided in advance with a draft of the wording you wish to use for our approval."
I know this is largely a LR discussion, but i’m curious now about my Jaguars.
2023 F-Pace SVR has new key
2022 F-Type has old key
But we know Jag have been better at resisting these techniques to thieve our motors - but what about my F-Type with the old key? I keep it in a faraday case, as I did the F-Pace, because I didn’t realise the new shape keys are better.
Curious now, is the F-Type vulnerable, will JLR offer an upgrade? Or is it protected because it’s a Jaaaag?
Just double blip every time, to ensure deadlocks are enabled and keep all keys in tin box / faraday cage…
@@jonathancollard3710thanks, yeah I always double lock, unless i’m leaving the dog in there - a single lock doesn’t arm the interior sensors 👍🏼 and yes, the faraday case is in action, but odd they couldn’t bring the new tech to a MY22 car but then there doesn’t seem to be a crisis in F-Type thefts… oh well, will just carry on with the basics and hope for the best.
I hope this all gets sorted for the LR lads n lasses out there, it’s horrific isn’t it. Richard is doing such a good job.
What’s happening with insurance companies I have seen astronomical hikes and I have ordered a defender 110 X Dynamic D300 HSE due to built in April this year! I might need to cancel my order and lose my deposit
I own a 2020(69) RRS, living near Birmingham - bought from a LR dealer. Have spoken to them, they had now knowledge of any recall or updates required for it, and I haven't heard anything from LR direct. Insurance renewal coming up in 30 days - the market is still suggesting that these cars are uninsurable.
Unfortunately I think the damage is done now. The slow response from LR, the insurance difficulties, the re-sale value. I'm just gonna have to ditch mine and take the hit, and I suspect many others are the same.
What key do have Phil
@@Challengetheroad it’s the newer key, but surely all post 2020 RRS have those newer keys? If the newer keys are the solution to the theft problem, why aren’t insurers differentiating between those that have the newer key and those that don’t. There seems to be something amiss here
Hi Richard great work... thanks
So these enhancements... have they made any difference to insurance premiums? Have insurance co reduced the cost
Hi mate av got 2016 on 65 plate older keys do u believe the will be a solution? And do u fink values are going back up or fink values are doomed greatly thanks for your input on the situation great chanle
Yes I have been told they are working on a solution for older models, will keep pushing 👍
This is the sort of video Land Rover should have made instead of a somewhat patronising sales spin interview.
Being able to identify if you have UWB keys and are not susceptible to the relay key theft is critical for people to know where they are. They also need to be clearer that this feature wasn't rolled out on all models for 2018, and that it's more likely that it was introduced for Range Rover (flagship) and Range Rover Sport. I'd imagine the Velar was probably updated too quite soon being new at that point. I would expect that Discovery Sport and Evoque models didn't get this until the new Evoque and DS appeared in late 2019, early 2020. So it's not a one date cutover. New Discovery would span the cutover potentially.
They could have used an approved used vehicle to then demonstrate how to turn off keyless entry. At least then people have a choice on whether to disable (it's a few key presses on the fob) or use some kind of faraday protection. We also need to be honest in that it will not be possible to update non-UWB cars to UWB, as this likely needs lots of new hardware in each car. Also to be fair, this is not just a Land Rover issue, and I don't think any other maker has replaced old keys and receivers with updated ones on cars already built. Happy to be corrected if they have.
The next elephant in the room is 3G. To get the benefit of the 'car is unlocked' warning from your phone, if your car supports InControl, you need a valid subscription and then the car can talk to the app over it's built in 3G telematics. However, UK phone providers are in the process of dismantling the 3G network which will render this feature useless in cars with 3G telematics. A list of models for this would be nice.
Given that owners of non-UWB keys have the least protection for the thieves getting into the car, it would be helpful if Land Rover think the body or key control modules in these cars with keyless entry can be updated to help prevent theft at all. Again honesty helps here as I'm guessing that if they can relay the key signal, the secondary hole that's being plugged for later models doesn't matter as the car thinks it's a valid key and unlocks/starts. If you have disabled keyless entry and double locked, is it possible to gain entry without causing a fair amount of damage, and if they get in, is the older car still susceptible to that second method? If so, do Land Rover think they can plug it?
I thought the security guy came across well, and knew the subject, and thankfully didn't engage in much spin. Exactly what is needed, knowledge.
Thank-you Richard for taking the time to do this. 👍
I have a 2020 Velar D300 yet it has the old style key. Seems odd that he said it changed in 2018?
So current insurance quotes are £22,000 a year in London. What are Land Rover Doing?
DOUBLE-SPEAK ...reference 1984.
I struggle with understanding what is being said ...particularly as to the people with wide band keys but not sure if upgrade needed! I would like to know but don't get a straight answer for JL
Thanks for the updates and your continuing work on this. I assume you will be doing videos on how best to utilise security and the app too? Still not clear on whether extra security like ghost or Pandora is a good idea or not? As mentioned previously these will be installed somewhere different on each install as opposed to the same place every time on oem security? Thoughts?
Great work thanks. I did have a 2018 RR Velar but now have an early MY22 Jaguar I-Pace with Secure Pro (3 years from purchase). Do you know how the issues reflect across to the Jaguar part of JLR?
Jaguar is ok but I will double check
@@Challengetheroad Thank you, that is very kind.
I have a 2019 RR Vogue where can I get my upgrade ? great video thanks
On brand Richard - wearing a McLaren vest!!! Oh wait!
How did I manage to defeat thieves who tried to steal a Daihatsu Fourtrak, which I had fitted an alarm to for a neighbour? They smashed the alarmto bits, ripped out most of the dashboard, but didn't manage to find how I immobilised the engine! Clever wiring! Takes some time, but stopped them taking the car! The repairers took five weeks to fix the car.
JLR knew this problem as early as 2012 !!!
I live in north London . You just cannot get sensible insurance on a Range Rover . I have 2021 car . Last year my insurance was £650 my renewal came in at £14000 with a load of exclusions , hence it’s up for sale . 😢
You have to feel sorry for the Local Youth in the hoodie and Bucket Hat having to walk around with a large TV aerial to improve his Freeview channel reception in the middle of the night and as one once infamous Politician told us you should go outside and give him a hug ...
The suggestion that 2018-2022 cars mostly have the UWB key doesn’t sound right to me. My 2020 Velar has the older key technology which is disappointing given that this relay theft problem was already known and JLR had been fitting UWB keys to ‘some’ models since 2018. Surely once the new technology was being deployed why has it taken more than two years after that to deploy it on all models?
That’s not good will report back to them
Agree, I also have a 2020 Velar with the old style keyfob.
So any idea if the wideband key is compatible with the pre-2018 cars and if the hardware and software in these cars all provide the correct level of security against relay theft? I carry my key in a faraday pouch but if I can go to my insurer with some sort of document from JLR that I have updated keys then are insurers then willing to accept that as an approved security update? JLR need to be talking with the insurance industry because some insurers don't want aftermarket / post manufacture security enhancements even though it makes the car more secure. It is a real mess at the moment.
Ultra Wideband RF technology is completely different to other RF technology and requires a change of hardware in the car and the key fob.
@CharlesDickson-nv2ol that is what I thought
Great video thanks! Please can you ask how they define the 2018 model year? I.e mines registered as September 2017 but shows up as 2018 model year on my online Land Rover service history 😊.
Thank you, could you check your key, hopefully it’s the newer one which would be 2018 model
@@Challengetheroad unfortunately it’s the old style key :(
I would imagine the easiest way to tell is if you have the “facelift” features. As from what I understand, this is when this “key” came into effect
@@TheDrago1882 Thanks. For the velar, it only got the facelift from 2021!
Damn
There are rumours that JLR have gone into partnership with some insurance companies and keep recommending them to jaguar and range rover owners. The problem is that even those insurance companies are asking for an arm and a leg which favours them both as the profit is split between the dealership and the insurance company. If JLR weren't making money out of this they could stop these theft within a week by replacing the ignition modules. They simply don't want to.
Does anyone know if the 2010-2012 L322 Range Rover is affected by theft they are keyless start not sure about keyless entry….well mine isn’t
I will ask Barrie on next call
Would it be possible to add Face ID as a means of allowing access to the vehicle? By all means have a key, but like an iPhone which uses such technology to unlock it, it’d be almost impossible to steal a car if your facial features aren’t stored in the recognition software.
Are JLR replacing the older keys? My 2019 Velar has just had a security update however I have not received a new square key. What has been updated?
Additionally, although living rurally in Scotland 40m out from Glasgow i am feeling the impact of this weak spot. Underwriter and Insurer has stopped cover at renewal forcing change. Initital quotes being +50% up on last year. JLR need to update all with equal priority not just high incident Southern based owners.
Hi Colin, could you fill out our insurance form and will get you a call with them
@Challengetheroad ive completed (twice) the LR online quote and on both occassions they have not quoted. This in spite of clean record and license, 50yrs driving experience, Advanced driver qualification, 9yrs+++ NCD, living rurally 40m out from Glasgow, parked on drive behing gates on remote private road ~ ie not hot spot!
One further point which is that recently I have received an offer from my local dealership of £1k cheque to spend plus £4k off a new Velar. While attractive, considering the security, insurance and plummeting values, the offer is an obvious no-go. JLR have a major brand and technology issue only they can resolve.