Jup, I always assumed the same as you Res. It never made sense for me with the "trample" damage. But I was just like "meh, And camels are boats. AoE logic"
It's actually based on real history. Byzantine Cataphracts were the ones who pioneered the wedge formation when charging. Thus they would literaly pierce enemy lines and trample their opponent's infantry.
Dude wedge formation has existed since the introduction of companion cavalry into war (Rome didn't even exist so suggesting the Byzantines is a joke). The formation is meant to increase maneuverability by having all of the cavalry follow the one unit in front (as opposed to a line which wouldnt be nearly as agile/flexible). The point is that the cavalry can change directions more efficiently and attack exactly where they want.
I love games where people go for the relics, but I especially loved this one as one player secured them all. The one with the relics is the one with my favor!
Res, you should mention that Daut went for Cataphracts partially because Aztecs are stuck at Pikemen. And pikes don't do shit to catas, their cav attack bonus is almost completely neutralized. Halberdiers are still viable, and if there were halbs on the field Daut would stop phract production
kkab really invited daut to play like this with his passive approach to the match. He could have pressured daut much earlier, because by the time he finally pulled out daut was already set up for what turned out to win him the game.
seems like we all had different ideas of what trample damage did XD I thought (until this vid tbh) that trample damage dealt additional damage when a Cataphract runs into an enemy unit and attacks them - like when your army of Cataphracts charge the enemy lines, when they reach them the Cataphracts in front would deal additional damage along with their initial attack. Great to be informed, and awesome vid once again. Break the Meta might be the best series on YT :D
At 18:47, couldn't kkab have targeted the duat's 1 treb with his treb, and got the first two shots off with a 2nd and 3rd treb coming? Would duat have made more trebs in this case? I believe duat only had 2 castles at this time and one researching elite cataphract and the other making cataphracts, would have been hard to find the build time for more trebs. As it was, duat was able to kill 2 trebs with his 1 treb against kkab's 3 trebs, should that be happening? If kkab kills duat's only treb wouldn't his 3 trebs go on to kill duat's castle and cut his cataphract production in half?
When you were looking at the achievements and commenting about Army at 32:32 "Size doesn't mean everything my friends, it's how you use it." - I dare you not to think dirty about that xD RES QUOTE
+SirLaurenceNZ Gaming you need not worry about that since it is not really well explained. It took a good 12 years of playing before I actually asked myself how does it work.
Stoned as Fuck , first thing to do ? Watch the new Break the Meta Episode ! Thats me right now and I have to say , its just perfect . Keep up the good work @Resonance22 !
Honestly this match was all about Cav playing the matchup so poorly rather than Daubt's mass Cataphracts. The Aztecs vs Byzantines matchup dictates that the Aztecs have an advantage in the early-mid game but the Byzantines are heavily favored in the late game. So what did Cav do? Completely surrender his early-mid game advantage and let Daubt get to the late game where he's favored. Why would you ever do that? Such a massive matchup miss play! To add insult to injury being the Aztecs, lacking the Stables entirely means he basically cornered himself having no good counter play options to the Byzantine's cavalry focused play(not just the Cataphracts, Byzantines also have access to Paladins and Camels if he needed them). Basically Pikemen even with Garland Wars simply don't match up well vs Cataphracts nor do Eagle Warriors and those are his only anti cavalry options and if he did go mass Arbalests which can easily be countered by Paladins, Hussars and Elite Skirmishers. TL : DR in the Aztecs vs Byzantines matchup the Aztecs need to win early, aka be the aggressor. Cav ceded the initiative to Daubt which put himself into a corner he simply couldn't get out of due to the tech tree differences between the 2 civs. You can't miss play a matchup more than Cav did in this case.
Not to mention he allowed Daut to grab ALL the relics, giving him a steady gold income throughout the game. I mean, an Aztec player not grabbing relics is just stupid.
Conquistadors, Mangudais, other most of Heavy Cavalry Archer Unique Units, Heavy Cavalry Archers of Turks, Hun, Mongol etc, Paladins, Boyars beat Cataphracts. Heavy Cavalries(full upgrade) of Turks, Bumese, Chinese may beats. Heavy Camels, Heavy Cavalries and Halberdiers can support to Heavy Cavalry Archers against to Paladins. Composition of Large group of Skirmishers, Arbalesters and Archer Unique Units, Scorpions and small group of Halberdier can be tried lack of Cavalry and Cavalry Archer. But but less effective.
+Harshath JR No, it's armor against "anit-cavalry" attacks. Just like "pierce armor" is armor against "pierce" attacks, and "melee armor" is armor against "melee" attacks.
+Harshath JR Basically a normal Halberdier can do around 32 damage against normal Cavalry, but Elite Cataphract has up to 16 "Anti-Cavalry" defense, Halb can only do 16 damage. With that insane Cavalry defense, 1v1 Cataphract win against all Cavalry counters.
fun fact: one of the original manuals for cataphracts actually said they did "triple" damage, so i used to think they were CRAZY OP, but that was just a typo. Later i also thought trample meant running over an opponenets farms would damage them.
Hey Res a few queries. First you described the aztecs as a brilliant early eco race, but in this scenario its nullified as the walls offer protection all the way to castle. I think daut was just heavily favoured from the off in this game as it is the only map that allows it. Normally the aztecs will crush the byzantines with early pressure, but you just can't do it on this map.
if charging enemy infantry with a group of cataphracts would knock them over... that would be a fun new mechanic and come closer to actual trampling xD
+Gilgwath oh that would be so fun and devastating to the enemy player XD imagine that they would need like a second to get back up on their feet, and in the meantime the cataphracts would just hack n' slice them to mincemeat :b
Daniel Kemnitz if you would charge them in maner that knocks them over you would be be going at quite a speed and would need come to a halt or chang direction, but you could send in some infantry afterwards. ^^ Btw. I think Battle Of Middle Earth 2 actually had a element like this in it. Also had alot of other intresting unit featurs... but yeah other parts of the game were wores than worst.
+Gilgwath Or just continue running... lol the Cataphracts would be the meanest scouting and raid units ever, when the enemy sends an army to stop them they would just run into them and knock them over, then proceed to run somewhere else and be completely unstoppable by anything but archers :) - it would be like playing tag with someone who knocks you down and runs away all the time, total douche but effective none the less^^
Daniel Kemnitz You would need to give pikes a stance where they can array them selfs into a speer wall that would break a chrage or something like that, else this would be OP as fuck, exactly as you say ^^
The thing about cataphracts is that they take no bonus damage from pikemen, which makes them rather useless. Mass scorpions would have been a better counter to the cataphracts.
+Kei Angelus True about their awesome defence bonus but u cant be serious when u say that scorps would counter the catas? They would go down instantly :P Monks is the best choice in kkabs situation, also arbs (before daut started to make skirms)
You keep saying he needs moe/massed pikeman.. but I thought pikemen don't have any (or virtually no) bonus against Cataphracts... maybe massed skirms and arbalast are good idea?
donjecrte Heavy Camels still deal +2. But Cataphracts have good enough stats to still counter Camels to a degree. It's Mamelukes that you should worry about. Cataphracts beat Mamelukes in a 1v1 because of superior stats, however in mass battles they are even because Mamelukes are ranged and can attack behind others. Also you can use hit-and-run tactics.
halberdiers are ... okay (halberdiers specifically, pikemen are almost useless), paladins are good, even cavaliers do fine. Also, massed ranged units are pretty decent because cataphract don't have the best pierce armor. Monks are also decent against smaller groups of cataphracts. But the thing is, there is no foolproof answer once the byzantines get those cataphracts rolling
17:00 BattleForge is now dead, other than some fan attempts at remakes, otherwise you could realize your childhood dream of trampling units underfoot, as in that game, the XL sized units and some smaller ones with that ability could do exactly that
+XyntXII Thats because you are too early. When he uploads the vid, it is converted to different formats for different browsers and also replicated over different severs, so many ppl can watch the high quality version at the same time without maxing out the crossatlantic datalines ;-) This stuff takes time.
+SirLaurenceNZ wait lol just reed the description "*As usual it will take around 1 hour after uploading for the video quality options to become available! ;)" Resonence striving to get the content to us first!
I know it's 4 years late but those comments are for those who read it later as well so whatever The reason, why he deleted the walls is because the area behind was inside his town anyways so all they did was get in the way
What's the purpose of age of empires 2? I'm thinking of buying this game but have no idea what you do in this game? Do you just build your own kingdom and attacks others?
+justin bartelen Its like starcraft except with less micro and speed requirements so ye if starcraft is the fast paced micro intensive rts then aoe is the slower paced macro focused game
Someone tested 10 fully upgraded Elite Cataphracts vs 20 fully upgraded Halbediers, and the Elite Cataphracts (w logistica) only lost a single unit. This is due ot the Cataphract's bonus damage vs. infantry.
they are more than twice as expensive tho. I heard a few times that halberdiers are supposed to still be cost effective against cataphracts but I don't know any actual examples of this. And even if they are, I would still take that with a huge grain of salt because you need to be in a like 3:1 majority to actually *be* cost effective and even then, halbs are so pop inefficient against cataphracts that they simply crumble against masses of them
+XyntXII Kinda hard to make cavalry with aztecs ;P nah but archers are good but thats why daut started to make skirms.. Monks + archers is probably the best aztecs can do. FU halbs is also good but sadly tecs dosnt got that ;/ But yea, with another civ: arbs + halbs or knight line + either archers or halbs.
Conquistadors, Mangudais, other most of Heavy Cavalry Archer Unique Units, Heavy Cavalry Archers of Turks, Hun, Mongol etc, Paladins, Boyars also beat Cataphracts. Heavy Cavalry(full upgrade) of Turks, Bumese, Chinese may beats. Heavy Camels and Halberdiers can support to Heavy Cavalry Archers against to Paladins.
An Aztec battle should never drag into the Imperial Age. If the Aztec cannot defeat or cause a significan impact against a Cavalry heavy civ before Imperial, they may as well resign (in a 1v1). The cost of making a Cataphract is about the same as making two pikemen/halberdier (temporarily). As the battle goes on, while the gold may deplete, the cavalry heavy civ can outnumber the pikemen/halbs quite easily. So in a 1v1 where most battles only last 50 minutes and there are still plenty of gold piles left after the battle, that shows how powerful Cavalry really are and gold really isn't as "rare" a resource to get as many suggest. Even Paladins are worth their gold when they can just run into a town center and kill one or two villagers. It'd take an army of pikemen to do an equal amount of economic damage. The opponent that builds the skirmishers are locked into a defensive position because the skirms/halbs are unable to go near castles/Town Centers. Even if Trebuchets are added, a handful of cavalry could easily run past/around the skirms and handle the problem easily. Any civ that lacks a strong cavalry unit should be trying to bring their opponent down very early, including dark/feudal rushes. This is especially true if the civ has some sort of economic advantage. The civ then can basically whittle down their opponent while aging up around the same time as their opponent.
+1sephiroth8 Pffft. Aztecs excel in Imperial Age. Cats are the only kind of cavalry which has significant advantage against Aztecs. This game didn't even last 50 minutes and there was no gold left.
Proggie-kun Aztecs are.... ok lategame. Not as good as so many other lategame civs(Spanish, Teutons, Byzantines, Chinese, Japanese, Goths, Britons). They are certainly better than civs like Huns, Franks who are complete one trick ponies.
DauT gets town watch for free as Byzantines, so he definitely would see it coming a mile away. DauT is also a a player that knows every strategy in and out of the box.
I don't understand this idea that it's relatively easy to get eagle warriors when you're also getting monks. Gold is a very limited resource and building eagle warriors when you're already building monks, just means you need even more gold. Won't it be easier to use your gold for either and build other units with other resources?
+Wouter Vos yea it is quite a finite resource, but unlike some other units the eagle warriors and monks only need two resource types. That means you can focus the majority of your vilagers on those specific resources rather than spreading them out evenly on all resources. That way it is economically viable that they cost food and gold only, rather than fx food, gold, AND wood. But when you hit the late game, you would need to transition into something else because as you say, gold is finite and runs out quite fast. - And I should mention that eagle warriors and monks are only very effective in mid game, in post there will be so many units that a few monks won't do much, so the great need for gold to produce the units is only temporary and won't harm you later on because typically people will transition into other units in late game. Hope it was not too complicated :b
What he means is that since it's so incredibly expensive in the food and gold departments, requires several castles, and is really only super effective once all the upgrades have come in (blacksmith + logistica + elite), what looks like an obvious choice on paper is severely limited by the practicality of it. If you find yourself in an instance like this where you have the time to harvest the necessary resources, then you can pull it off, but if you have to get involved with early/early-mid game aggression, then you aren't going to want to open with cataphracts. DauT took advantage of a lull in the action created by Kabb not expecting multiple defensive castles in order to get sufficiently teched into what he needed. It also helped a great deal that he had all 5 relics as even with a 3-2 relic advantage, he would've only had a gold income advantage of a third of a relic due to the Aztec team bonus (90 gold/min for DauT vs 80 gold/min for Kabb).
Byzantines only make Cataphracts if they see the opponent commit to infantry(and they dont make many of them). Else on Arena, it is just a fast imp into gunpowder+trash spam.
I don't see why this is a meta-breaking move. If you are the Byzantines, you are going to make Cataphracts at some point. Because they are awesome. Maybe because pros never make them?
The common Byzantine strat on Arena is fast imp into gunpowder+trash or trebs+trash. That cheap imp advancement is so good that it makes up for Byzantines having no eco bonus.
Ideal time for this video to upload. 2 o clock on a school night. Thanks Res.
Jup, I always assumed the same as you Res. It never made sense for me with the "trample" damage. But I was just like "meh, And camels are boats. AoE logic"
You found Cataphract style in French Cuirassier that deal tremple damages too (but countered by Halbs)
So a real AoE logic :D
It's actually based on real history. Byzantine Cataphracts were the ones who pioneered the wedge formation when charging. Thus they would literaly pierce enemy lines and trample their opponent's infantry.
Dude wedge formation has existed since the introduction of companion cavalry into war (Rome didn't even exist so suggesting the Byzantines is a joke). The formation is meant to increase maneuverability by having all of the cavalry follow the one unit in front (as opposed to a line which wouldnt be nearly as agile/flexible). The point is that the cavalry can change directions more efficiently and attack exactly where they want.
Hellercor Uhm, no, the Macedonians pioneered the wedge formation. You're like 800 years off.
@@tomh4754 And the Persians/Armenians before them.
"...almost double the size of daut's, but size doesn't mean everything my friends, it how you use it,..."
10/10 best motivation ever
I love games where people go for the relics, but I especially loved this one as one player secured them all. The one with the relics is the one with my favor!
Things like this match are why Daut is one of my favorite players in the game.
Res, you should mention that Daut went for Cataphracts partially because Aztecs are stuck at Pikemen. And pikes don't do shit to catas, their cav attack bonus is almost completely neutralized. Halberdiers are still viable, and if there were halbs on the field Daut would stop phract production
Don't pikes deal about 8 bonus damage to Cataphracts?
Tocaraca I think its 22
The emerald dream Nope, it's 22 against normal cavalry and only 6 vs Cataphracts.
Actually the Cataphracts negate bonus damage vs cavalry from pike and camels, their only weakness is paladins and archer units.
kkab really invited daut to play like this with his passive approach to the match. He could have pressured daut much earlier, because by the time he finally pulled out daut was already set up for what turned out to win him the game.
seems like we all had different ideas of what trample damage did XD I thought (until this vid tbh) that trample damage dealt additional damage when a Cataphract runs into an enemy unit and attacks them - like when your army of Cataphracts charge the enemy lines, when they reach them the Cataphracts in front would deal additional damage along with their initial attack. Great to be informed, and awesome vid once again. Break the Meta might be the best series on YT :D
gave the impression of "no rush til imp" haha
At 18:47, couldn't kkab have targeted the duat's 1 treb with his treb, and got the first two shots off with a 2nd and 3rd treb coming? Would duat have made more trebs in this case? I believe duat only had 2 castles at this time and one researching elite cataphract and the other making cataphracts, would have been hard to find the build time for more trebs. As it was, duat was able to kill 2 trebs with his 1 treb against kkab's 3 trebs, should that be happening? If kkab kills duat's only treb wouldn't his 3 trebs go on to kill duat's castle and cut his cataphract production in half?
It's awesome to see a good game of such vintage still receive attention and strategic experimentation
30 seconds into the video, hearing the Byzantines will be played by DauT.. *oh this is gonna be gooood*
When you were looking at the achievements and commenting about Army at 32:32 "Size doesn't mean everything my friends, it's how you use it." - I dare you not to think dirty about that xD
RES QUOTE
Cataphract - Neglecting extra damage since 1998
Mhm
The way you analyse these games is incredible! Definitely helped me a lot improving my own game style (:
AND: Cataphracts ftw :D
I love me some elite cataphracts, mix that in with the cheap skirmishers and it can be a touch matchup to overcome.
break the meta - imperial age scout OP 11
cjay92 teutons approve it, 11
27:00 I would've preferred that use of trample damage too. How it's not seems... counter-intuitive.
I thought that trample damage was tripple damage XD so I always got it :P
not an idiot just an extremely careless 5 year old paying aoe2 at the time I finally realized it was trample after like 10 years of playing the game
Well a 5 year old can make mistakes bro....
+SirLaurenceNZ Gaming you need not worry about that since it is not really well explained.
It took a good 12 years of playing before I actually asked myself how does it work.
Wow you're a moron
20:08 that magical moment!
Stoned as Fuck , first thing to do ?
Watch the new Break the Meta Episode !
Thats me right now and I have to say , its just perfect .
Keep up the good work @Resonance22 !
Honestly this match was all about Cav playing the matchup so poorly rather than Daubt's mass Cataphracts. The Aztecs vs Byzantines matchup dictates that the Aztecs have an advantage in the early-mid game but the Byzantines are heavily favored in the late game. So what did Cav do? Completely surrender his early-mid game advantage and let Daubt get to the late game where he's favored. Why would you ever do that? Such a massive matchup miss play! To add insult to injury being the Aztecs, lacking the Stables entirely means he basically cornered himself having no good counter play options to the Byzantine's cavalry focused play(not just the Cataphracts, Byzantines also have access to Paladins and Camels if he needed them). Basically Pikemen even with Garland Wars simply don't match up well vs Cataphracts nor do Eagle Warriors and those are his only anti cavalry options and if he did go mass Arbalests which can easily be countered by Paladins, Hussars and Elite Skirmishers.
TL : DR in the Aztecs vs Byzantines matchup the Aztecs need to win early, aka be the aggressor. Cav ceded the initiative to Daubt which put himself into a corner he simply couldn't get out of due to the tech tree differences between the 2 civs. You can't miss play a matchup more than Cav did in this case.
Khab and Daut. I know res says Khab like Cav for some reason and Daut sounds like Doubt.
Not to mention he allowed Daut to grab ALL the relics, giving him a steady gold income throughout the game. I mean, an Aztec player not grabbing relics is just stupid.
Conquistadors, Mangudais, other most of Heavy Cavalry Archer Unique Units, Heavy Cavalry Archers of Turks, Hun, Mongol etc, Paladins, Boyars beat Cataphracts. Heavy Cavalries(full upgrade) of Turks, Bumese, Chinese may beats. Heavy Camels, Heavy Cavalries and Halberdiers can support to Heavy Cavalry Archers against to Paladins. Composition of Large group of Skirmishers, Arbalesters and Archer Unique Units, Scorpions and small group of Halberdier can be tried lack of Cavalry and Cavalry Archer. But but less effective.
i love these series keep it up !
I used to think that the trample tech was broken because when i ran them over a farm the farms took no damage
You mean anti-"anti-cavalry" armour? :)
+Harshath JR No, it's armor against "anit-cavalry" attacks. Just like "pierce armor" is armor against "pierce" attacks, and "melee armor" is armor against "melee" attacks.
+Harshath JR Basically a normal Halberdier can do around 32 damage against normal Cavalry, but Elite Cataphract has up to 16 "Anti-Cavalry" defense, Halb can only do 16 damage. With that insane Cavalry defense, 1v1 Cataphract win against all Cavalry counters.
tha armor class is named "cavalry", so technically it's "cavalry armor", but saying "anti-cavalry armor" is definitely fine as well.
is there another way to counter aztec with byzantine except using cata?
fun fact: one of the original manuals for cataphracts actually said they did "triple" damage, so i used to think they were CRAZY OP, but that was just a typo. Later i also thought trample meant running over an opponenets farms would damage them.
Hey Res a few queries. First you described the aztecs as a brilliant early eco race, but in this scenario its nullified as the walls offer protection all the way to castle. I think daut was just heavily favoured from the off in this game as it is the only map that allows it. Normally the aztecs will crush the byzantines with early pressure, but you just can't do it on this map.
Yes but with eagle warriors and them getting that relic gold bonus they are good at arena
You CAN still put pressure early on with the "tower hop" strategy, but that would be incredibly difficult against a player like Daut.
The real message of this game is:
Daut WITH quickwalls is unbeatable!
:D
if charging enemy infantry with a group of cataphracts would knock them over... that would be a fun new mechanic and come closer to actual trampling xD
+Gilgwath oh that would be so fun and devastating to the enemy player XD imagine that they would need like a second to get back up on their feet, and in the meantime the cataphracts would just hack n' slice them to mincemeat :b
Daniel Kemnitz if you would charge them in maner that knocks them over you would be be going at quite a speed and would need come to a halt or chang direction, but you could send in some infantry afterwards. ^^
Btw. I think Battle Of Middle Earth 2 actually had a element like this in it. Also had alot of other intresting unit featurs... but yeah other parts of the game were wores than worst.
+Gilgwath Or just continue running... lol the Cataphracts would be the meanest scouting and raid units ever, when the enemy sends an army to stop them they would just run into them and knock them over, then proceed to run somewhere else and be completely unstoppable by anything but archers :) - it would be like playing tag with someone who knocks you down and runs away all the time, total douche but effective none the less^^
Daniel Kemnitz
You would need to give pikes a stance where they can array them selfs into a speer wall that would break a chrage or something like that, else this would be OP as fuck, exactly as you say ^^
Cavalry does that in games like Battle for Middle Earth (and kinda Total War) if you wish to try it :)
Finally I see a game in which a player gets all the relics... but I guess pro games don't have relic victories?
The thing about cataphracts is that they take no bonus damage from pikemen, which makes them rather useless. Mass scorpions would have been a better counter to the cataphracts.
+Kei Angelus True about their awesome defence bonus but u cant be serious when u say that scorps would counter the catas? They would go down instantly :P Monks is the best choice in kkabs situation, also arbs (before daut started to make skirms)
You keep saying he needs moe/massed pikeman.. but I thought pikemen don't have any (or virtually no) bonus against Cataphracts... maybe massed skirms and arbalast are good idea?
Skirms dmg too low, albares are better, but until byzatines cheap trash kicks in tons of skirms,...
when are you streaming on twitch???
+george bouranis look at his twitch schedule below the stream window: www.twitch.tv/resonance22
sumarai? is there any game where they are actually the best option
+flip maessen when your opponent does what you just saw above
rat488 break 'break the meta' =D?
Ravi Teja Well, that'll probally never happen :\
Flip Well if you hide your samurai versus a goth player who is just booming into a massive huscarl group you could make him a really sad panda
rat488 Could be interesting
i think cataphracts nullify camel bonuses against cavalry.... not sure though
They nullify a lot of it, but not all. Camels are OK against Cataphracts, and I guess they're a bit cost effective.
they nullify the whole bonus
donjecrte Heavy Camels still deal +2. But Cataphracts have good enough stats to still counter Camels to a degree. It's Mamelukes that you should worry about. Cataphracts beat Mamelukes in a 1v1 because of superior stats, however in mass battles they are even because Mamelukes are ranged and can attack behind others. Also you can use hit-and-run tactics.
oh yeah byz is my fav civ especially cos cataphracts :33
jo Res and youtube community what is the best against a massiv monk tactic?
+TheM3nt0ss Longbows. In general, siege, archers, and non-knight line cavalry are all good counters to monks.
+TheM3nt0ss Long range units in general. Skirms are very good, so are Mangonels. Hussars or Light Cavalry can also work.
+TheM3nt0ss ranged units (plumes, archer-line), light cavs & eagles.
Cataphracts late game vs Goth late game, who would win?
Cataphracts especially if they have Eskirms behind
I just got hit with mass catephracts and I couldn't properly counter it
halberdiers are ... okay (halberdiers specifically, pikemen are almost useless), paladins are good, even cavaliers do fine. Also, massed ranged units are pretty decent because cataphract don't have the best pierce armor. Monks are also decent against smaller groups of cataphracts. But the thing is, there is no foolproof answer once the byzantines get those cataphracts rolling
17:00 BattleForge is now dead, other than some fan attempts at remakes, otherwise you could realize your childhood dream of trampling units underfoot, as in that game, the XL sized units and some smaller ones with that ability could do exactly that
only 360p?
+XyntXII Thats because you are too early. When he uploads the vid, it is converted to different formats for different browsers and also replicated over different severs, so many ppl can watch the high quality version at the same time without maxing out the crossatlantic datalines ;-) This stuff takes time.
+XyntXII sadly it appears so ;( if he re uploads least we saw it before he does XD
+SirLaurenceNZ wait lol just reed the description "*As usual it will take around 1 hour after uploading for the video quality options to become available! ;)" Resonence striving to get the content to us first!
+SirLaurenceNZ 720p =)
2:35 bottom right: Why on Earth destroy the walls in this strange pattern!?
I know it's 4 years late but those comments are for those who read it later as well so whatever
The reason, why he deleted the walls is because the area behind was inside his town anyways so all they did was get in the way
hahaha i thought the same about trample damage and i used to run them around the enemy base
I think everyone who played AoE from its early days, can agree that Byzantines cataphact mass was always the way to go....
good as always, thanks :)
read the description for information about quality
Is Daut again!!!
has Daut ever lost a game???
I DAUT IT! :P
What's the purpose of age of empires 2? I'm thinking of buying this game but have no idea what you do in this game? Do you just build your own kingdom and attacks others?
+Silentkiller007 yep and play campaigns and defeat your friends ant it is also a game that needs alot of strategy just like chess ;D
+Silentkiller007 Like Starcraft but with more complexity (arguable) and usually much longer games
+justin bartelen Its like starcraft except with less micro and speed requirements so ye if starcraft is the fast paced micro intensive rts then aoe is the slower paced macro focused game
^that
"Mass byz cataphract is breaking the meta"
I thought it WAS the byz meta, kappa
+KyvannShrike no : the Byzantine meta is archery ranges => archers/skirms.
+Matthias Darrington While I appreciate you explaining the Byz meta to me, I would like to reiterate that this was a joke..... hence the "kappa"
ahhhhhh
+KyvannShrike Not everybody watches twitch tv and hence would not get the meaning of kappa.
+Matthias Darrington I thought the Byzantine meta was the trash flood.
Someone tested 10 fully upgraded Elite Cataphracts vs 20 fully upgraded
Halbediers, and the Elite Cataphracts (w logistica) only lost a single unit. This is due ot the Cataphract's bonus damage vs. infantry.
they are more than twice as expensive tho. I heard a few times that halberdiers are supposed to still be cost effective against cataphracts but I don't know any actual examples of this. And even if they are, I would still take that with a huge grain of salt because you need to be in a like 3:1 majority to actually *be* cost effective and even then, halbs are so pop inefficient against cataphracts that they simply crumble against masses of them
That's one hell of a way to pronounce halberdier
Gosh Heavy ! ... but could be deadlier with (siege) onager in place of rams :p
Please try the overlay, you don't need to be an expert on it first, I promise^^
+Andréas Fjordstig he says this on all of his videos he cannot use overlay because the replays are mostly older and the overlay is not compatible
pikemen are not cost effective against cataphracts.
normally the better combination would be heavy cavalry backed by lots of archers.
+XyntXII Kinda hard to make cavalry with aztecs ;P nah but archers are good but thats why daut started to make skirms.. Monks + archers is probably the best aztecs can do. FU halbs is also good but sadly tecs dosnt got that ;/
But yea, with another civ: arbs + halbs or knight line + either archers or halbs.
Conquistadors, Mangudais, other most of Heavy Cavalry Archer Unique Units, Heavy Cavalry Archers of Turks, Hun, Mongol etc, Paladins, Boyars also beat Cataphracts. Heavy Cavalry(full upgrade) of Turks, Bumese, Chinese may beats. Heavy Camels and Halberdiers can support to Heavy Cavalry Archers against to Paladins.
An Aztec battle should never drag into the Imperial Age. If the Aztec cannot defeat or cause a significan impact against a Cavalry heavy civ before Imperial, they may as well resign (in a 1v1). The cost of making a Cataphract is about the same as making two pikemen/halberdier (temporarily). As the battle goes on, while the gold may deplete, the cavalry heavy civ can outnumber the pikemen/halbs quite easily. So in a 1v1 where most battles only last 50 minutes and there are still plenty of gold piles left after the battle, that shows how powerful Cavalry really are and gold really isn't as "rare" a resource to get as many suggest. Even Paladins are worth their gold when they can just run into a town center and kill one or two villagers. It'd take an army of pikemen to do an equal amount of economic damage. The opponent that builds the skirmishers are locked into a defensive position because the skirms/halbs are unable to go near castles/Town Centers. Even if Trebuchets are added, a handful of cavalry could easily run past/around the skirms and handle the problem easily.
Any civ that lacks a strong cavalry unit should be trying to bring their opponent down very early, including dark/feudal rushes. This is especially true if the civ has some sort of economic advantage. The civ then can basically whittle down their opponent while aging up around the same time as their opponent.
+1sephiroth8 Pffft. Aztecs excel in Imperial Age. Cats are the only kind of cavalry which has significant advantage against Aztecs.
This game didn't even last 50 minutes and there was no gold left.
Proggie-kun
Aztecs are.... ok lategame. Not as good as so many other lategame civs(Spanish, Teutons, Byzantines, Chinese, Japanese, Goths, Britons). They are certainly better than civs like Huns, Franks who are complete one trick ponies.
Impressive...
Lol i still thought thats what trample damage did untill this vid 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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awww yisss
ALL HAIL KING DAUT
cab could've tower hopped
+Thunder Cardoza Or he could have used petards.
DauT gets town watch for free as Byzantines, so he definitely would see it coming a mile away. DauT is also a a player that knows every strategy in and out of the box.
yeah
I always make mass cataphracts :/
I don't understand this idea that it's relatively easy to get eagle warriors when you're also getting monks. Gold is a very limited resource and building eagle warriors when you're already building monks, just means you need even more gold. Won't it be easier to use your gold for either and build other units with other resources?
+Wouter Vos yea it is quite a finite resource, but unlike some other units the eagle warriors and monks only need two resource types. That means you can focus the majority of your vilagers on those specific resources rather than spreading them out evenly on all resources. That way it is economically viable that they cost food and gold only, rather than fx food, gold, AND wood. But when you hit the late game, you would need to transition into something else because as you say, gold is finite and runs out quite fast.
- And I should mention that eagle warriors and monks are only very effective in mid game, in post there will be so many units that a few monks won't do much, so the great need for gold to produce the units is only temporary and won't harm you later on because typically people will transition into other units in late game.
Hope it was not too complicated :b
I actually think Kab would have won if he'd used Petards to get through the walls instead of rams
Since when is going cataphracts "breaking the meta"? lol
They're a really good unit, I personally use them a lot when I get Byz and see them a lot.
In a 1v1 going solo mass elite cats is not common in the slightest.
In Arena Byzantine meta is fast imp into gunpowder+trash or trebs+trash.
how the hell is this break the meta, its a go to option in this game.
Usually a Byzantine player in Imp wouldn't go for mass Cataphracts
In an byzantine vs aztecs match-up on arena its the most logical option to go for, don't u agree?
What he means is that since it's so incredibly expensive in the food and gold departments, requires several castles, and is really only super effective once all the upgrades have come in (blacksmith + logistica + elite), what looks like an obvious choice on paper is severely limited by the practicality of it. If you find yourself in an instance like this where you have the time to harvest the necessary resources, then you can pull it off, but if you have to get involved with early/early-mid game aggression, then you aren't going to want to open with cataphracts. DauT took advantage of a lull in the action created by Kabb not expecting multiple defensive castles in order to get sufficiently teched into what he needed. It also helped a great deal that he had all 5 relics as even with a 3-2 relic advantage, he would've only had a gold income advantage of a third of a relic due to the Aztec team bonus (90 gold/min for DauT vs 80 gold/min for Kabb).
Byzantines only make Cataphracts if they see the opponent commit to infantry(and they dont make many of them). Else on Arena, it is just a fast imp into gunpowder+trash spam.
I don't see why this is a meta-breaking move. If you are the Byzantines, you are going to make Cataphracts at some point. Because they are awesome. Maybe because pros never make them?
+MoLetalis How often can you afford to mass elite catas in 1v1's? In my eyes this is definately a rare strat.
The common Byzantine strat on Arena is fast imp into gunpowder+trash or trebs+trash. That cheap imp advancement is so good that it makes up for Byzantines having no eco bonus.
"Value".
Fraco
man this guys commentating is super annoying lol