Yeeeah, that’s short term woe imo! Like the stock market. You look at the day/week/month, looks awful. 5-10 years out, better trajectory. That might play into Harley’s favor.
I think you're spot on. Polaris has not just revived but continued the Indian line and brought it into modern times. As for Harley, they only have themselves to blame for the declining market share.
@@jocoloco1320 I wouldn’t be so sure. Plus the influencers on social media is more of a thing now than when Victory was around, so you’ll hear more about Indian than ever before. So if victory was still around, they would have the same social market share.
Thanks for your video and your thoughts. I’m an older rider that owned just about all the popular brands. Left Harley back in 1970 era due to the many issues the Harley had pertaining to fit and finish. Bought my first Japanese bike in 1970, the Honda CB 750. Great bike, low maintenance and it never left me walking. My second Japanese bike was the Kawasaki Z900, fast sweet bike. Early 80s went back to Harley when Willie G and friends bought Harley back from AMF. During that period of time I restored several older Indians Road masters from 1949-1953. Great bikes , felt they were a head of their time. Still loved my Harleys. When I returned from Vietnam in 1969, I and a couple of friends took a extended road trip for one year. At that time I owned an older Harley cop bike I purchased at a city auction. Rode that Harley through my High School years. It was an old pan head vintage 1959. Great bike, I had no difficulty wrenching on it. I fixed all the issues Harley factory was lazy to do. I machined all the cases and reworked the heads stopped all the leaks Harley was known for. Kept that bike for years cause it saved my life from all the issues a war can lay at one’s feet if involved in combat situations. That Harley helped me clear my soul and mind from returning to a new life after Vietnam experience. I wish I still had some of those great bikes I restored or rode. I’m now in my early 80s and still riding. Age is just a number. Still got an older Indian I restored some years back. It’s like an old boot that slips on and feels comfortable. When I stop for gas or at an intersections I get a lot of praise for the look of my old Indian Road Master. It has the look of the fabulous 50s and it gets the attention it deserves. Stay safe, stay up on two wheels, maybe I’ll meet up with you on the rode. Glad you’re into the bikes… My grand dad told me once, you’ll never see a Harley parked in front of a psychiatrist office! How true it was for me.. That freedom and the wind in your face says it all for one’s physical being… it’s the closest thing to be able to fly like an eagle.
I’m seeing more and more Indians on the road every week here in Australia. I’m a CDH owner and I honestly think Indian/Polaris are gonna take a bigger bite out of HD every year
Victory was shut down because of the popularity of Indian.. Victory sales sadly declined after Indian came on the scene. I wished they kept both but, I get it. Why compete within the company.
They competed I theirs head only, because even know streetglide does nor have a competition from Indian, because of indian chieftain design. While something similar to victory cross country is fully capable of that, and Polaris would get more profit per tho two models... Especially when traditional American cruisers with are loosing popularity in general
Victory sales slowed down because Polaris intentionally stopped giving Victory any attention. Polaris put all their eggs in the Indian basket then when Victory unsurprisingly slowed down, they closed it down. The biggest evidence is the Scout/Octane. The Octane had been in development for a LONG time under Victory. But it was stolen from Victory and released as the Scout first.
If Polaris ever decided to shut down Indian (which is very doubtful), they would sell the brand, the reason they did not sell the Victory brand is because they did not want the competition.
Polaris Indian has no real heritage. That's all just on paper and marketing. Indian died in 1953. Ride what you like and like what you ride. But Polaris Indian heritage? That's fake...unless you buy into them "identifying" as whatever they want to be. Sound familiar?
I own a 2016 Victory Gunner. Bought it new. I really don't want a new bike but I am definitely looking at a Harley for my next bike. The feeling of not being able to get parts to fix my bike when i see so many 15 year old Harleys still on the road is a sickening feeling.
I love my Victory Cross Country Tour. Even if it has a catastrophic failure, I will never get rid of it. I can also appreciate the reason Polaris stopped production to focus on Indian. I love those bikes as well.
Brandon, thank you for the video. Towards the end of the video of how you explained how polaris isn't just slapping the name on the tank. They actually put forth effort to retain the history of the name. Many times, I've had to explain this to people when they tell me, "Oh, It'S nOt a TrUe InDiaN." If it wasn't for Polaris, Indian Motorcycles would be history. Plus, times keeps progressing forward, with tech becoming more advanced, gotta keep up with the times. But it has crossed my mind after Polaris shut down Victory to make way for Indian. But, one thing I know is that polaris is hungry to compete in the on-road market. Victory didn't have the history behind the name, while Indian did and still does. Thats what people were looking for in a motorcycle. Plus, with recent events that happened with HD. It kind of reassures myself that Polaris seems to be dead set on holding onto Indian Motorcycles.
Yeah was seriously looking at the Octane or Hammer at the time and that's when the rumbling started about them shutting down. Soured me on Polaris for a long time. I just ended up doing what i do,drug an old Dyna home and rebuilt it.Still got it.Great bike.
Polaris is not shutting down Indian. Indian is shutting down Polaris 😂 Indian is not going anywhere. I think in a couple years Indian motorcycle sales will surpass Harley Davidson and become #1 American motorcycle again.
@mrdude3540. I could see this actually happening as long as H-D keeps shooting themselves in the foot. If I could get an Indian Thunderstroke with a carburetor and no ECU, I would be tempted to get one. I am a bit old school.
i dont think indian will ever get shut down but they are a ways away from dethroning Harley. The after market parts available for Harley alone is substantial in comparison to indian.
@@BrandonBicasso Just an observation. My local Indian dealer had 79 new bikes two months ago, were down to 39 a week ago. got a shipment and currently have 194. My local H-D Has 4 less bikes than two months ago. Just sayin' If you hold stock, sell it.
@@BrandonBicasso I was eyeing the street bob in orange when all this broke, and walked away from H-D. I was only vaguely aware of Indian a couple months ago. Decided to stop by the dealer and sat on all the models, that was really it for me. Now can't decide on the Scout or the Chief. The cost between them isn't my primary concern
@@BrandonBicassome personally, I wanted an American brand but HD reliability issues had me scared to go that route. Plus I wanted to be different. I’ve owned 3 and they’ve been SO reliable!! Glad I went Indian And now the severe and common M8 issues have me never wanting one of the newer ones. Now an old twin cam or even sportster would be a fun around town bike.
Victory are Indian and vise versa. It's all in the name..Indian is a better name for historical heritage and marketing and now they're producing decent bikes.
I hate it when people say "iNdiAnS aRe jUsT a PoLaRiS pRoDucT. iT'S nOt oRiGinAL" It's a bike based off of the original designs, especially the new Scout and even the Chief but most notably the Springfield ESPECIALLY with the unique front fender design that Indians are known for. Its a bike manufacturer that was brought back from the dead. I have a couple Indians and a couple Victories. If anything, Polaris could bring the Victory name back as a sport bike line if they wanted to. That would be cool to see.
Yeah the "unoriginal" argument never made sense to me. Harleys aren't any more "original" than any other bike just because the company happened to stay open the entire time. The Indian bikes coming out today are great, and they're plenty original
I will preface this with - I don't care what you ride as long as your knees are in the breeze on twos (or threes for trikes and Can-Am riders). Ride safe no matter what. The argument is accurate when (some not all) claim that Indian is the "older brand." This is a false claim. The brand of Harley-Davidson has been in continuous, non-stop production since 1903. Indian cannot truthfully make the same statement since 1901. Another commenter said that Polaris bought the brand for its history and heritage. While this was a (good) strategic action for Polaris, again, the "older brand" claim is untrue from a continuous, non-stop production standpoint. Again, don't get me wrong, Polaris makes some nice-looking motorcycles. Only a fool would say otherwise. And the competition was/is definitely needed to kick the ass of the other brands in the industry (not just Harley). We've seen a lot of great innovation from many brands across the industry, especially in the last decade. Ride safe!
I get a kick out of Harley owners saying, "that's not an Indian, it's a Polaris!" Who really cares? I love what Polaris has done with the Indian brand. It's actually what distracted me from my pursuit of a Softail and ultimately bought an Indian instead. I am so glad I did. In my opinion, Harley is played out. I see new owners as sheep. Everyone should get what they want, but I feel like many are purchasing a name with HD. Indian is a better value, again, imo.
Harley rides should shut up. All the Harley apparel is made over seas. Not all, but a lot of their parts are also made over seas, now they are looking to send the 2025 revmax bikes to Thailand to be manufactured.
Those Harley owners that will say “nice Polaris” to Indian riders seem to forget how many different parent corporations Harley’s had. Polaris making Indian a stable market player is good for the American motorcycle market as a whole.
People that would say that are immature close minded fuds. Grown men that ride, like all motorcycles, and don't care what people ride. Those guys sound like self conscious teenage girls who have to cut other people down to pad their ego.
Hey Brandon, if Polaris did close down Indian, there would be a backlash against all the other products that Polaris owns. As an example Norton motorcycles. They stopped producing bikes for years however, it got back up and running. The newer versions of the Commandos look basically the same as the old ones, but they aren’t really like the old ones. The same with Indian. I had a 1934 Chief with sidecar. Now the Indians of today aren’t like the old ones because technology has changed and there are environmental issues of running an old Indian compared to a new one. The real old bikes and cars were fundamentally death traps however, technology has fixed all that. It’s impossible for any manufacturer to build the essence of an old bike into a newer one. Sorry if I’m rambling lol been awake for over 36 hours lol. Love your work Mate.
I think Indian is Polaris's cash cow , so I don't think the brand will go anywhere, besides Indian has something victory never had, a long and rich history, so I'm sure that's why they ditched victory in favor of Indian..
Something Victory had over Indian is that design language. Whew.. 😮💨 I was all in on Cross Country/Magnum with those sharp lines and the tear drop tank.
I know some people that are dyed in the wool Harley hardcore enthusiast that secretly love Indian motorcycles. It is my opinion that Indian motorcycles, is Harley's worst nightmare! Harley is in trouble in all aspects of being a motorcycle company, the stock is falling, they're closing down dealerships in America and overseas, they've had about six different CEOs and as many years, they're playing outrageous games with their warranties on the bikes, the cost of a Harley motorcycle and the cost of the repairs of Harley motorcycles is simply outrageous, and I think brand loyalty will only run so long. And I am a former Harley-Davidson owner, and for the negative state it above I will never buy another Harley!... Not that I don't like Harleys I just cannot see myself buying another one. Thanks for another awesome video.
@@BrandonBicasso wow thanks for that good information I did not know Harleys were cheaper to work on than the Indians, thanks for the info, and stay safe brother.
It’s not a black/white thing on every model/part. From my experience, the rebuild aspect has been more favorable for Harley. Some of the comparable parts are a good amount more expensive with Indian. No idea why but it’s got me considering not rebuilding more.
I can’t speak on it only from lack of experience. I haven’t had either just break down or throw engine codes for no reason like others. So, not that I wouldn’t say, but my bikes overall have a similar level of reliability. Plus, they’ve all been wrecked so is it fair to judge one over another? Curious on what you think. Great question also.
Thoughtful and I agree with everything you said. I don't see Indian going away though and Harley has made some mistake recently. The Bell saga is a shame. I'm not sure anything was ever as cool to me as the XB series bikes. I'd still like to see one in my garage some day.
You said something interesting Brandon when you mentioned the intellectual property of Victory. I've noticed that the Indian engines at least on the outside, are looking more and more like Victory motors.
I’m a victory hold out. I’ve owned mine since 2011. I’ve never broken down. With that said victory was never viewed as competition to Harley Davidson. Sales stagnated for victory. Indian sales at the same time were rising. Indian is direct competition for Harley. So it makes sense that they killed victory. I highly doubt polaris will kill Indian off. Look at UA-cam and what do you see ? Rg vs challenger. Heck they created the king of baggers competition.
I have had the same thoughts. Polaris makes all kinds of other power sports things. If the motorcycle market gets too weak they could shut down the motorcycle part. Harley makes motorcycles. They could go out of business but they wouldn’t have anything to fall back on.
Lack of Parts availability for older Victory is why I didn't get an Indian for my 1st streetbike. I figured of they don't have parts support for one model they'll do it again. It seems like everything is moving away from being serviceable after warranty though.
In the past 12 years I've owned 3 victories and just traded my last 2 in for a 15 HD road glide as I always wanted a RG but then I was introduced to Vics. However, the pricing of the bikes needs to come down which is why HD dropped their prices in the 24 models. I was just at my local Indian dealer last week and I was checking out the pursuit and was ready to trade but the price kept me out of the deal. The MSRP is a bit high just like other brands which is the one of the main reasons sales are down on bikes and not just bikes. Gen Zers do not have the disposable income like us the older crowds and we're embarking on a major financial crisis and a lot of people are not ready for it. I definitely miss my 2 cross countries and should've kept one at least.
I had a 99 Victory and a 03 Victory and now I ride a 15 Chief Vintage. I occasionally worry about Polaris just getting out of the motorcycle business all together, if it happens I'll probably switch to Triumph.
I don’t think Indian is going anywhere. I traded victory Vega’s in my cheiftain in 2017 a month after victory was shut down. I loved victory, but Indian is a better bike. So I’m not concerned at all
With anyone I speak with who’s a previous Victory owner I do inform them that the Victory technology still lives on in the bikes we keep in our stables…..yet some still cringe like it doesn’t register in their brains or something
Getting parts for any old bike can be quite challenging (let alone from a now defunct manufacturer). About twenty plus years ago I owned a 1980 Honda, the ignition switch went bad, I went to the local Honda (powersports) dealership to try and buy a new one, of course the part was no longer available from Honda, so the dealer had to search high and low for one, they finally found a n.o.s. part on the shelf of some obscure motorcycle shop in a town in Japan, needless to say, it took a number of weeks to get it to me. After getting stranded on the road, pushing the bike home and then having to wait for the part (wasn't my first issue with metric bikes), I decided to go the Harley route, parts are far easier to obtain. P.S. I'm not trying to rag on any other bike manufacturer or their riders (I grew up in a Honda family), ride what you love to ride and be proud to be able to ride. ✌
@@alexwilsonpottery3733 True, there are a lot of old Harley bikes that ended up as parts bikes, but the real reason is that there is still a real demand for those parts, thereby creating an aftermarket supply chain. I'll bet it's easier to get parts for a '55 panhead than it is for '75 Honda (or similar metric bike manufacturer).
I wanted Polaris to succeed with Victory. But anyways I got rid of my 11 Cross Country and got an 18 Chieftain and by far the Indian wasn't a Victory and vice versa. After riding that Thunderstroke for a few years I was still wanting that Freedom 106 so I bought a Gunner, not worrying about, OH what's going to happen when I need to work on it, cause I trust the Polaris brand. Now I ride a 22 Challenger and still have Gunner for when I feel the need to keep Victory alive in my mind. The BEST of both worlds. So everybody go buy a Victory and keep the dream alive.
Polaris has been committed to a US built alternative to HD since the 90's. They waited until all the legal issues were resolved with the Indian branding to make that purchase as the only brand that could go head to head with HD at their game. With the loss of Polaris we did also lose amazing innovation to the focus on heritage, which will always be part of this scene, but we have seen some of that back with FTR and then Challenger design, pushing the segment forward. If Polaris does shut down Indian, it will be because they are exiting their 30+ year commitment to this segment so they will not have to worry about moving buyers to a third brand!
Any riding community without Vic/Indian would be a major loss but I do think about it a lot. Doesn’t affect me buying Indian but it does for Vic. Commitments for business sounds good until the revenue dries up and loss flows free. 🌚
@@BrandonBicasso For sure! No business is here as a community service for us so we ultimately need to show our support of awesome products with our hard earned $$! Goes for aftermarket too!
I currently have a 14 Victory Cross Country and know my next bike will be an Indian. Kinda of thinking adding a Scout as some days I feel like being on a lighter but highly capable bike.
Indian are doing better than ever, thankfully they won't be going anywhere. Letting go of Victory was a difficult but wise decision to compete against HD. Indian make better bikes than Harley Davidson 100% even though they sell less bikes overall. I love my Thunderstroke 116 in the Super Chief Limited. It destroys the M8 my old Street Glide had. I just finished encasing my dog tags in clear art epoxy in the gas cap of the Super Chief. Going to wrap it in gold leaf to make it look like it was mined from the ground. Video coming soon.
I've owned a couple Victorys and a couple Indians but I have to tell you I was furious when I had just bought a Victory Gunner and the dealer claimed a week later that Polaris never told them and they had no Idea this was going to happen..as far as me I kept it for awhile and traded it in on a Springfield Dark Horse but it was always in my head that it could happen again... I don't trust any of these Corporations anymore. You are correct about parts and availability but it was hard enough getting parts when Victory was still in business and I bet it is very hard now... No company will invest making after market parts for a brand that is not around anymore. Not to mention what is the re sale value on a old Victory ? That being said Indians are better made more thought out with more R&D but I thought the Gunner had a great engine and my Octane was a fun bike also....
Shoot, if someone wanted a Vic, this is a great time to get one $$$ wise. I’m lucky to have ridden multiple but maybe not so lucky having to rebuild one. I don’t want to do it again without more experience. The older Vic gets, the more custom, $$$ and experience you’ll need to get it back going. Luckily, the engines are solid.
I`m thinking Polaris bout the Indian name and the Indian motorcycles are just renamed Victory. They wanted to keep both brands but would be stupid competing with each other. rather than only having one to put their full attention to one. If Polaris stops Indian or sells to another company, I would probably switch to another brand. We have an Indian dealer in Spokane and the next closes one is in Seattle, so if they only just closed this one, I would be thinking of something else because I couldn`t take it 400 miles for service when or if needed.
Companies exist to make money. With Indian doing well, they’re not going to shut it down. I was a Buell guy, I owned several of them. When H-D closed Buell, I was pissed off. But a fact I couldn’t deny was that Buell had a small percentage of sales. No disrespect to Victory, but fact is it wasn’t gaining customers (being an alternate to H-D) the way Indian is. Right now I see no reason why Polaris would close Indian. I believe they’re going forward with it. I have two Indian motorcycles, and I love ’em.
I enjoyed my Victory CC, smooth 106, powerful enough, and the ride was great. I hate Polaris for killing the brand. I will buy an Indian when they drop the "Since 1901". The original company shutdown long ago. How about Re-established 2014 with a modern twist of the original. For now I will stick with my Road King and wear my Victory t-shirts.
Mr. Bicasso, i do like your content very much and i respect your efforts put forth in your channel. Being a Victory owner i will absolutely not buy an Indian because of that simple fact that you stated. Indians are not selling well around where i live.
I think the question is what will motorcycles look like in 2035+ and how will Polaris and HD deal with changing technology, government regulations, and more people embracing sustainable living? In the mean time, there's a gap between ICE and a growing segment of younger riders who want smaller electric urban mobility and have no interest in the "open road" generation. Polaris and Zero Motorcycles have a 10-year partnership agreement in off-road vehicles and snowmobiles. Harley has LiveWire but hasn't made significant progress. The company who can capture a multi-generational product line will gain market share and Polaris appears to be well positioned.
I took my Scout in for the State Inspection, and they said they were seeing some issues with the new scout. Some noises in the forks and engines. Cycle World just put out a review comparing the Sport Chief to the Low Rider S and they basically said the Low Rider beat the Chief in every category. I truly believe Indian’s look better than Harley’s, while Harley has a grip on the 40yr old customers, I think Indian can easily capture the younger buyers.
My Low Rider S I’d say felt faster than my Chief in some ways. Putting them side by side in speed is probably splitting hairs, but the Low Rider 100% had better cornering agility.
I can completely respect those that had their heart broken with the Victory name, from a business point of view keeping Indian over Victory made sense as it had more value. But Indian being shut down wouldn't make a lot of sense unless they actually fell over and in today's market I don't see that happening. Name brand is too positive. And I couldn't be happier with my chief so far either.
You and me both. I like the conversation tho! When people ask why Indian doesn’t go a certain direction in the market, I come back to this topic. They’re very strategic in their direction to not get caught out by this market.
@@BrandonBicasso I think a large part of this is simply the endless need for some people to find problems with the brand they're not a fan of. Don't like rock music well all rock is bad because they don't say enough words and rap is better. Silly example maybe just trying to make a po6
I think this is a very big concern, I own Indians and the more I look into the story the more concerned I get, Polaris appear to have developed the Victory purely to put the technology into Indian, I think that was always the plan. Here in the UK we have about the same amount of main dealers for Harley as we do Indian but the main issue Polaris will not support independent service garages which reduces the customer choice and also gives the main dealers the chance to exploit the pricing and get away with poor service. Even with the woke issue I feel HD have the upper hand as there are more choices in service and parts than Indian. I think the HD scheme for independent service garages also includes warranty work which is the same for America and the UK. Which could be the difference of a local quick fix to a couple of weeks with transport costs. Indian is a very, very small part of the Polaris portfolio and is a real concern that they may one day get bored and do another Victory!
I would prefer not to buy an overpriced Harley but what you articulated is the only reason I'm still considering Harley. I always get the feeling that the tech at any Polaris dealership probably has some motorcycle experiences but may or may not have tons of Indian experience. There are no 20 year Indian motorcycle techs out there.
I know a lot of people were upset about Victory but it absolutely made sense for Polaris to put everything into Indian. Victory just couldn’t gain any traction. The Indian brand has heritage. It was the only way to compete with Harley-Davidson and it would have made no sense to keep both brands going. The only way Indian goes away is if the motorcycle market goes away. Polaris has made the brand viable again. It’s on solid ground now. They were probably the only company that could pull it off. It may not be the original company, but I’m okay with that. We can’t go back in time and keep the original company in business but this is the next best thing. Harley-Davidson needed real competition. It’s good for the consumer. Victory wasn’t getting it done.
It didn’t make sense for them to produce two separate lines of motorcycles. When they had the opportunity to acquire the Indian brand, they not only got the IP, but they got the legacy and history that they could build on. That’s the only reason why they shut down Victory. I can’t see anything better coming along that would have them shut down the Indian brand save for a total collapse of the motorcycle market or HD buying Polaris and shutting down the brand to eliminate competition which would probably be blocked by the government to prevent a monopoly in the US market.
My father was a victory owner untill the day he had a low tire and had to take most of his bike apart just to get to the tire, he went to the indian dealer here in town and traded it for a BMW, lol. Thought I was going to say Indian, didn't you. RIP dad.
If they sold Indian and bought Harley Davidson with the same or greater attention to improving the brand, reliability, etc, everyone would love them, except the haters and some Indian Owners!
Victory made some of the baddest bikes available when i graduated high school. Still want a jackpot. Love my harley, love my yamaha, love my kawasaki. Parts are easiest to find for harley. If they shut down Indian i would never consider a polaris based product. Period. Love your progression brotha. Keep the shiny side up!
Victory and especially Indian forced Harley to get off their ass and step up their game! You would not see the leaps from their 1950's technology by Harley any other way. Garage floors everywhere will be cleaner and happier as a result! Still have my Vegas BTW.
I could see Polaris selling Indian. If sold to an American company or holding company, then I would see that company shutting it down or selling it overseas. Chinese could produce these bikes and assemble them in the US.
Indian motorcycle is growing by the day i can only see it growing even more they put a lot work into the brand just let it go like that I can’t see it happening
I think of Indians shut down Harley shut down afterwards. If they're selling there's no reason to shut down. It used to be if you couldn't afford a car you would buy a motorcycle. Now the prices I'll get into be where it's cheaper to buy a car than a motorcycle then I would see motorcycle company starting shutting down. I don't even want to talk about the cheaper Chinese products coming in. I'm sorry e-bikes.
it will never happen, as sad as it was for the Victory brand, they did well, Indian is a brand that can be used all over the world, even those who are not passionate about custom motorbikes know it, Victory doesn't, for example, in Italy only enthusiasts everyone in the custom world knows this about Victory, Indian
I always felt that Polaris shut down the wrong brand tbh, I get why they did it, but Victory was such a breath a breath of fresh air for cruisers at the time vs Harley.
After 5 Harley's I'm over them. I like the Indians, I'd buy another Triumph I've had 2 already. Even another Honda. The Moto Guzzi Griso maybe. Hells bells even BMW maybe.
Based on what I saw vis-a-vis how many Indians were on the road up in Sturgis this year vs. two years ago, it was eye opening. A huge percentage increase. No where near half/half, but still very telling. And this was well before all the wokeism backlash took hold. Seriously, the only thing I heard about moan-wise from the HD crowd up there was how the new bikes sounded, the VVT was a bad idea, they didn't like all the LED stuff looking more like Indians, etc. I have two Indians in my garage and I plan to keep it that way. The loss of Victory was sad, especially how they had to roll it out and torpedoed a lot of great mom/pop stores the way they did, but the DNA remains. You put an Indian next to a Victory and you can absolutely see the same design language inside and out.
Yeah, I’m seeing more Indians on the road which is awesome to see. The momentum keeps going. The styling is similar but those sharp edges and body lines are soo distinct on Vic.
OR they could shut down Indian if the sales aren't there and focus on their horrible reverse trikes and slingshots. Unfortunately, at least currently two wheel riders are getting fewer and fewer
If Indian would add one or two smaller bikes in the $5 to $10k price range, they could bring in a LOT more new riders. Just sayin'... not everyone can afford the $13k entrance fee to be a new rider.
I think bike manufacturers in general would do better if they focused on performance a bunch more and a lot less on TV screens and useless ( on a motorcycle in my opinion) tech and apps. Polaris could be a real leader in that direction. I would settle for a radio that I can bluetooth to my Cardio headset. I don't need a giant touchscreen with a bunch of unreliable tech built into it, unreliable tech that raises the purchase price and, arguably, is distracting and dangerous to use while riding. Just my $.02.
follow the money, that will let you know which direction any company will be going. Get their public records via freedom of information act and see future projections based on information you find. Will they shut down? probably. not in next decade, but who knows what kinda bikes will be powered by then..... we all may be riding ARCH hydro powered hover bikes 🎉
Victory 8 Ball. Gone. Loved those bikes. Indian is a better bike than Harley.... but better in a Honda sort of way. Make sense? The Indian is better balanced, more reliable, better tech, better features, better, better, better... But, and this is a big butt, I don't want a Honda. There's just something OG about Harley.
I hear what you're saying but I'm gonna disagree. The easiest way for Polaris to recover from shutting down Indian would be to relaunch Victory. I think that has been the plan the whole time, Polaris never sold anything from Victory when they closed the doors. They still have the machines, molds and some factories that are loaded with Victory parts. Numerous aftermarket companies made Polaris offers for the equipment and dyes etc and Polaris refused to sell any of it. When they pulled the plug on Victory the company was attracting the young riders with the style of the cross country that had sleeker lines than the street glide. Arlen Ness was also involved in Victory giving them that that custom edge feel and cool factor from the king of custom. Sonny Barger rode a Victory Vision for years that was gifted to him by Arlen who also loved the Vision. I would even say they might do better if they shut down or sold Indian and relaunched Victory, being able to tap into the young new rider market again that Harley has NEVER figured out how to get despite numerous failed attempts.I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
Gonna go take a ride on my Polaris for a bit to let it marinate.
With the way Harley's reputation has taken a beating lately it's hard to see Indian being shut down.
Yeeeah, that’s short term woe imo! Like the stock market. You look at the day/week/month, looks awful. 5-10 years out, better trajectory. That might play into Harley’s favor.
@@BrandonBicassothis is exactly right! Stock market is a great comparison!
Well, hd will win because of this eventually. Because now it good time to get HD for cheap for those who could effort it. And become a fan.
@@BrandonBicassotwo words, Bud Light.
From what I hear, Indian sales are going downhill faster than Harley’s.
I think you're spot on. Polaris has not just revived but continued the Indian line and brought it into modern times. As for Harley, they only have themselves to blame for the declining market share.
Imho indian is gaining market share, you got nothing to worry about.
So did Victory.
@@AkaBullnot even close to what Indian is doing.
@@jocoloco1320 I wouldn’t be so sure. Plus the influencers on social media is more of a thing now than when Victory was around, so you’ll hear more about Indian than ever before. So if victory was still around, they would have the same social market share.
Thanks for your video and your thoughts. I’m an older rider that owned just about all the popular brands. Left Harley back in 1970 era due to the many issues the Harley had pertaining to fit and finish. Bought my first Japanese bike in 1970, the Honda CB 750. Great bike, low maintenance and it never left me walking. My second Japanese bike was the Kawasaki Z900, fast sweet bike. Early 80s went back to Harley when Willie G and friends bought Harley back from AMF. During that period of time I restored several older Indians Road masters from 1949-1953. Great bikes , felt they were a head of their time. Still loved my Harleys. When I returned from Vietnam in 1969, I and a couple of friends took a extended road trip for one year. At that time I owned an older Harley cop bike I purchased at a city auction. Rode that Harley through my High School years. It was an old pan head vintage 1959. Great bike, I had no difficulty wrenching on it. I fixed all the issues Harley factory was lazy to do. I machined all the cases and reworked the heads stopped all the leaks Harley was known for. Kept that bike for years cause it saved my life from all the issues a war can lay at one’s feet if involved in combat situations. That Harley helped me clear my soul and mind from returning to a new life after Vietnam experience. I wish I still had some of those great bikes I restored or rode. I’m now in my early 80s and still riding. Age is just a number. Still got an older Indian I restored some years back. It’s like an old boot that slips on and feels comfortable. When I stop for gas or at an intersections I get a lot of praise for the look of my old Indian Road Master. It has the look of the fabulous 50s and it gets the attention it deserves. Stay safe, stay up on two wheels, maybe I’ll meet up with you on the rode. Glad you’re into the bikes… My grand dad told me once, you’ll never see a Harley parked in front of a psychiatrist office! How true it was for me.. That freedom and the wind in your face says it all for one’s physical being… it’s the closest thing to be able to fly like an eagle.
I’m seeing more and more Indians on the road every week here in Australia. I’m a CDH owner and I honestly think Indian/Polaris are gonna take a bigger bite out of HD every year
Victory was shut down because of the popularity of Indian.. Victory sales sadly declined after Indian came on the scene. I wished they kept both but, I get it. Why compete within the company.
Would’ve been interesting to see a split brand gig going.
@@BrandonBicasso Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury, and Plymouth agree.
They competed I theirs head only, because even know streetglide does nor have a competition from Indian, because of indian chieftain design. While something similar to victory cross country is fully capable of that, and Polaris would get more profit per tho two models...
Especially when traditional American cruisers with are loosing popularity in general
Victory sales slowed down because Polaris intentionally stopped giving Victory any attention. Polaris put all their eggs in the Indian basket then when Victory unsurprisingly slowed down, they closed it down. The biggest evidence is the Scout/Octane. The Octane had been in development for a LONG time under Victory. But it was stolen from Victory and released as the Scout first.
Indian had the history and the name....no Brainerd really!
Harley can thank Indian for force them to make a better motorcycle.
Not better engineered than Indian, just a better Harley.
Great commentary Brandon...thanks for your honesty...from a Indian 2022 Chief owner.
🫡
If Polaris ever decided to shut down Indian (which is very doubtful), they would sell the brand, the reason they did not sell the Victory brand is because they did not want the competition.
Everyone talking smack about Polaris forgot about Harley's AMF years.
Saved by a bowling pin!
…and what they did to all us Buell riders.
I like Indian… having heritage and
Technology in mind for the is spot on for any successful motorcycle
Co.
Polaris Indian has no real heritage. That's all just on paper and marketing. Indian died in 1953. Ride what you like and like what you ride. But Polaris Indian heritage? That's fake...unless you buy into them "identifying" as whatever they want to be. Sound familiar?
I own a 2016 Victory Gunner. Bought it new. I really don't want a new bike but I am definitely looking at a Harley for my next bike. The feeling of not being able to get parts to fix my bike when i see so many 15 year old Harleys still on the road is a sickening feeling.
Def understand that. A few parts for the Magnum aren’t available. 🌚
I love my Victory Cross Country Tour. Even if it has a catastrophic failure, I will never get rid of it. I can also appreciate the reason Polaris stopped production to focus on Indian. I love those bikes as well.
Brandon, thank you for the video. Towards the end of the video of how you explained how polaris isn't just slapping the name on the tank. They actually put forth effort to retain the history of the name. Many times, I've had to explain this to people when they tell me, "Oh, It'S nOt a TrUe InDiaN." If it wasn't for Polaris, Indian Motorcycles would be history. Plus, times keeps progressing forward, with tech becoming more advanced, gotta keep up with the times.
But it has crossed my mind after Polaris shut down Victory to make way for Indian. But, one thing I know is that polaris is hungry to compete in the on-road market. Victory didn't have the history behind the name, while Indian did and still does. Thats what people were looking for in a motorcycle. Plus, with recent events that happened with HD. It kind of reassures myself that Polaris seems to be dead set on holding onto Indian Motorcycles.
Indian will never die!
Technically it did die for good in 1953. There’s nothing other than logos and looks of the original company. Don’t be fooled. It’s not an Indian.
I think Polaris should run a 3 Victory line under the Indian umbrella. 3 most popular models, Indian drive train with victory looks
Yeah was seriously looking at the Octane or Hammer at the time and that's when the rumbling started about them shutting down. Soured me on Polaris for a long time. I just ended up doing what i do,drug an old Dyna home and rebuilt it.Still got it.Great bike.
That rebuild is more fun anyway 🤙🏾
Polaris is not shutting down Indian. Indian is shutting down Polaris 😂 Indian is not going anywhere. I think in a couple years Indian motorcycle sales will surpass Harley Davidson and become #1 American motorcycle again.
Profound
In a couple years? Whew, that's optimistic.
@@BrandonBicasso ok more like 5 or 6 years according to my calculations
@mrdude3540. I could see this actually happening as long as H-D keeps shooting themselves in the foot. If I could get an Indian Thunderstroke with a carburetor and no ECU, I would be tempted to get one. I am a bit old school.
@@fmagalhaes1521 🍻
i dont think indian will ever get shut down but they are a ways away from dethroning Harley. The after market parts available for Harley alone is substantial in comparison to indian.
Def agree!
H-D's quarterly report is coming up. We'll see if Indian's moving up on them.
Sure is! I keep an eye on it out of curiosity.
@@BrandonBicasso Just an observation. My local Indian dealer had 79 new bikes two months ago, were down to 39 a week ago.
got a shipment and currently have 194. My local H-D Has 4 less bikes than two months ago. Just sayin'
If you hold stock, sell it.
Hey, a sale is a sale. I’d be curious on each person’s why for buying either today. Maybe I should bring up the conversation.
@@BrandonBicasso I was eyeing the street bob in orange when all this broke, and walked away from H-D.
I was only vaguely aware of Indian a couple months ago.
Decided to stop by the dealer and sat on all the models, that was really it for me. Now can't decide on the Scout or the Chief.
The cost between them isn't my primary concern
@@BrandonBicassome personally, I wanted an American brand but HD reliability issues had me scared to go that route. Plus I wanted to be different. I’ve owned 3 and they’ve been SO reliable!! Glad I went Indian
And now the severe and common M8 issues have me never wanting one of the newer ones. Now an old twin cam or even sportster would be a fun around town bike.
Victory are Indian and vise versa. It's all in the name..Indian is a better name for historical heritage and marketing and now they're producing decent bikes.
I hate it when people say "iNdiAnS aRe jUsT a PoLaRiS pRoDucT. iT'S nOt oRiGinAL"
It's a bike based off of the original designs, especially the new Scout and even the Chief but most notably the Springfield ESPECIALLY with the unique front fender design that Indians are known for. Its a bike manufacturer that was brought back from the dead. I have a couple Indians and a couple Victories. If anything, Polaris could bring the Victory name back as a sport bike line if they wanted to. That would be cool to see.
Totally agree! A sport bike Vic line would be crazy interesting!
Yeah the "unoriginal" argument never made sense to me. Harleys aren't any more "original" than any other bike just because the company happened to stay open the entire time. The Indian bikes coming out today are great, and they're plenty original
I will preface this with - I don't care what you ride as long as your knees are in the breeze on twos (or threes for trikes and Can-Am riders). Ride safe no matter what.
The argument is accurate when (some not all) claim that Indian is the "older brand." This is a false claim. The brand of Harley-Davidson has been in continuous, non-stop production since 1903. Indian cannot truthfully make the same statement since 1901. Another commenter said that Polaris bought the brand for its history and heritage. While this was a (good) strategic action for Polaris, again, the "older brand" claim is untrue from a continuous, non-stop production standpoint.
Again, don't get me wrong, Polaris makes some nice-looking motorcycles. Only a fool would say otherwise. And the competition was/is definitely needed to kick the ass of the other brands in the industry (not just Harley). We've seen a lot of great innovation from many brands across the industry, especially in the last decade. Ride safe!
I get a kick out of Harley owners saying, "that's not an Indian, it's a Polaris!" Who really cares? I love what Polaris has done with the Indian brand. It's actually what distracted me from my pursuit of a Softail and ultimately bought an Indian instead. I am so glad I did. In my opinion, Harley is played out. I see new owners as sheep. Everyone should get what they want, but I feel like many are purchasing a name with HD. Indian is a better value, again, imo.
Harley rides should shut up. All the Harley apparel is made over seas. Not all, but a lot of their parts are also made over seas, now they are looking to send the 2025 revmax bikes to Thailand to be manufactured.
Also they have dominated Flat Track for Decades!
Those Harley owners that will say “nice Polaris” to Indian riders seem to forget how many different parent corporations Harley’s had. Polaris making Indian a stable market player is good for the American motorcycle market as a whole.
People that would say that are immature close minded fuds. Grown men that ride, like all motorcycles, and don't care what people ride. Those guys sound like self conscious teenage girls who have to cut other people down to pad their ego.
Hey Brandon, if Polaris did close down Indian, there would be a backlash against all the other products that Polaris owns. As an example Norton motorcycles. They stopped producing bikes for years however, it got back up and running. The newer versions of the Commandos look basically the same as the old ones, but they aren’t really like the old ones. The same with Indian. I had a 1934 Chief with sidecar. Now the Indians of today aren’t like the old ones because technology has changed and there are environmental issues of running an old Indian compared to a new one. The real old bikes and cars were fundamentally death traps however, technology has fixed all that. It’s impossible for any manufacturer to build the essence of an old bike into a newer one. Sorry if I’m rambling lol been awake for over 36 hours lol. Love your work Mate.
Lol, for someone who’s been up that long, you type out good arguments and spelled words. 😂 solid points Fam. 👌🏾
Good thoughts B
I think Indian is Polaris's cash cow , so I don't think the brand will go anywhere, besides Indian has something victory never had, a long and rich history, so I'm sure that's why they ditched victory in favor of Indian..
Something Victory had over Indian is that design language. Whew.. 😮💨 I was all in on Cross Country/Magnum with those sharp lines and the tear drop tank.
@@BrandonBicasso I agree. Victory bikes were DIFFERENT. They looked good, too! I loved their bikes and was upset when they got canned.
I know some people that are dyed in the wool Harley hardcore enthusiast that secretly love Indian motorcycles. It is my opinion that Indian motorcycles, is Harley's worst nightmare! Harley is in trouble in all aspects of being a motorcycle company, the stock is falling, they're closing down dealerships in America and overseas, they've had about six different CEOs and as many years, they're playing outrageous games with their warranties on the bikes, the cost of a Harley motorcycle and the cost of the repairs of Harley motorcycles is simply outrageous, and I think brand loyalty will only run so long. And I am a former Harley-Davidson owner, and for the negative state it above I will never buy another Harley!... Not that I don't like Harleys I just cannot see myself buying another one. Thanks for another awesome video.
@@SoloBlack313 These Indians are getting expensive as well. They’re both luxury brands at this point. I find it cheaper to fix Harleys than Indians.
@@BrandonBicasso wow thanks for that good information I did not know Harleys were cheaper to work on than the Indians, thanks for the info, and stay safe brother.
It’s not a black/white thing on every model/part. From my experience, the rebuild aspect has been more favorable for Harley. Some of the comparable parts are a good amount more expensive with Indian. No idea why but it’s got me considering not rebuilding more.
@@BrandonBicasso do you feel comfortable in giving your your opinion on which one is more reliable Indian or Harley, and if not I do understand.
I can’t speak on it only from lack of experience. I haven’t had either just break down or throw engine codes for no reason like others. So, not that I wouldn’t say, but my bikes overall have a similar level of reliability. Plus, they’ve all been wrecked so is it fair to judge one over another? Curious on what you think. Great question also.
Thoughtful and I agree with everything you said. I don't see Indian going away though and Harley has made some mistake recently. The Bell saga is a shame. I'm not sure anything was ever as cool to me as the XB series bikes. I'd still like to see one in my garage some day.
You said something interesting Brandon when you mentioned the intellectual property of Victory.
I've noticed that the Indian engines at least on the outside, are looking more and more like Victory motors.
Every release, Indians look a bit more like Victory. Not completely but just a tad. I’m a fan.
I’m a victory hold out. I’ve owned mine since 2011. I’ve never broken down. With that said victory was never viewed as competition to Harley Davidson. Sales stagnated for victory. Indian sales at the same time were rising. Indian is direct competition for Harley. So it makes sense that they killed victory. I highly doubt polaris will kill Indian off. Look at UA-cam and what do you see ? Rg vs challenger. Heck they created the king of baggers competition.
Aug 8, 2023 - Indian Motorcycle NA retail was up 40%+ year-over-year. Market share is over 13%. Strongest motorcycle portfolio in our history.
I have had the same thoughts. Polaris makes all kinds of other power sports things. If the motorcycle market gets too weak they could shut down the motorcycle part.
Harley makes motorcycles. They could go out of business but they wouldn’t have anything to fall back on.
Lack of Parts availability for older Victory is why I didn't get an Indian for my 1st streetbike.
I figured of they don't have parts support for one model they'll do it again.
It seems like everything is moving away from being serviceable after warranty though.
In the past 12 years I've owned 3 victories and just traded my last 2 in for a 15 HD road glide as I always wanted a RG but then I was introduced to Vics. However, the pricing of the bikes needs to come down which is why HD dropped their prices in the 24 models. I was just at my local Indian dealer last week and I was checking out the pursuit and was ready to trade but the price kept me out of the deal. The MSRP is a bit high just like other brands which is the one of the main reasons sales are down on bikes and not just bikes. Gen Zers do not have the disposable income like us the older crowds and we're embarking on a major financial crisis and a lot of people are not ready for it. I definitely miss my 2 cross countries and should've kept one at least.
I had a 99 Victory and a 03 Victory and now I ride a 15 Chief Vintage. I occasionally worry about Polaris just getting out of the motorcycle business all together, if it happens I'll probably switch to Triumph.
My first engine build was a Triumph Bonneville T-100.
I don’t think Indian is going anywhere. I traded victory Vega’s in my cheiftain in 2017 a month after victory was shut down. I loved victory, but Indian is a better bike. So I’m not concerned at all
More reason for them to get it right with each release and to not expand too fast for the market.
With anyone I speak with who’s a previous Victory owner I do inform them that the Victory technology still lives on in the bikes we keep in our stables…..yet some still cringe like it doesn’t register in their brains or something
Oh, some see the writing on the wall and still ignore it.
Yes u are correct. Polaris is basically the money and Indian is Indian! Carry on….
Polaris is doing a magnificent job with Indian, they make some amazing motorcycles with the same brand cachet as Harley-Davidson.
Indian's not going anywhere. They had brilliant marketing in the beginning and have grown a solid customer base.
Oof. If they had it in the beginning, what now. 🤨
It's a coin flip with this crazy economy. I agree with you that if they close Indian, they're done.
Eric in Kissimmee.
Getting parts for any old bike can be quite challenging (let alone from a now defunct manufacturer). About twenty plus years ago I owned a 1980 Honda, the ignition switch went bad, I went to the local Honda (powersports) dealership to try and buy a new one, of course the part was no longer available from Honda, so the dealer had to search high and low for one, they finally found a n.o.s. part on the shelf of some obscure motorcycle shop in a town in Japan, needless to say, it took a number of weeks to get it to me. After getting stranded on the road, pushing the bike home and then having to wait for the part (wasn't my first issue with metric bikes), I decided to go the Harley route, parts are far easier to obtain. P.S. I'm not trying to rag on any other bike manufacturer or their riders (I grew up in a Honda family), ride what you love to ride and be proud to be able to ride. ✌
Of course, the real reason it’s so easy to find parts for an older Harley is because so many of them ended up as parts bikes.
@@alexwilsonpottery3733 True, there are a lot of old Harley bikes that ended up as parts bikes, but the real reason is that there is still a real demand for those parts, thereby creating an aftermarket supply chain. I'll bet it's easier to get parts for a '55 panhead than it is for '75 Honda (or similar metric bike manufacturer).
Polaris is doing E bikes now by the way. Can’t wait for your input.
There’s a group of riders I know who all owned Victory motorcycles. They have all moved onto Indians.
Captain obvious here. Polaris needs to keep supporting Victory through Indian. Earn the respect back. It's not too late.
I believe that the second that them design engineers at Indian make 3 fairing sets for they bikes it’s game over for Harley
3 fairing sets 🧐. Interesting.
I wanted Polaris to succeed with Victory. But anyways I got rid of my 11 Cross Country and got an 18 Chieftain and by far the Indian wasn't a Victory and vice versa. After riding that Thunderstroke for a few years I was still wanting that Freedom 106 so I bought a Gunner, not worrying about, OH what's going to happen when I need to work on it, cause I trust the Polaris brand. Now I ride a 22 Challenger and still have Gunner for when I feel the need to keep Victory alive in my mind. The BEST of both worlds. So everybody go buy a Victory and keep the dream alive.
Polaris has been committed to a US built alternative to HD since the 90's. They waited until all the legal issues were resolved with the Indian branding to make that purchase as the only brand that could go head to head with HD at their game. With the loss of Polaris we did also lose amazing innovation to the focus on heritage, which will always be part of this scene, but we have seen some of that back with FTR and then Challenger design, pushing the segment forward. If Polaris does shut down Indian, it will be because they are exiting their 30+ year commitment to this segment so they will not have to worry about moving buyers to a third brand!
Any riding community without Vic/Indian would be a major loss but I do think about it a lot. Doesn’t affect me buying Indian but it does for Vic. Commitments for business sounds good until the revenue dries up and loss flows free. 🌚
@@BrandonBicasso For sure! No business is here as a community service for us so we ultimately need to show our support of awesome products with our hard earned $$! Goes for aftermarket too!
I currently have a 14 Victory Cross Country and know my next bike will be an Indian. Kinda of thinking adding a Scout as some days I feel like being on a lighter but highly capable bike.
Love that. The Scout is legit even more with the new engine 🤙🏾
Indian are doing better than ever, thankfully they won't be going anywhere. Letting go of Victory was a difficult but wise decision to compete against HD. Indian make better bikes than Harley Davidson 100% even though they sell less bikes overall. I love my Thunderstroke 116 in the Super Chief Limited. It destroys the M8 my old Street Glide had. I just finished encasing my dog tags in clear art epoxy in the gas cap of the Super Chief. Going to wrap it in gold leaf to make it look like it was mined from the ground. Video coming soon.
They definitely need to bring back victory.It's the best bike I have ever owned
I've owned a couple Victorys and a couple Indians but I have to tell you I was furious when I had just bought a Victory Gunner and the dealer claimed a week later that Polaris never told them and they had no Idea this was going to happen..as far as me I kept it for awhile and traded it in on a Springfield Dark Horse but it was always in my head that it could happen again... I don't trust any of these Corporations anymore. You are correct about parts and availability but it was hard enough getting parts when Victory was still in business and I bet it is very hard now... No company will invest making after market parts for a brand that is not around anymore. Not to mention what is the re sale value on a old Victory ? That being said Indians are better made more thought out with more R&D but I thought the Gunner had a great engine and my Octane was a fun bike also....
Shoot, if someone wanted a Vic, this is a great time to get one $$$ wise. I’m lucky to have ridden multiple but maybe not so lucky having to rebuild one. I don’t want to do it again without more experience. The older Vic gets, the more custom, $$$ and experience you’ll need to get it back going. Luckily, the engines are solid.
I`m thinking Polaris bout the Indian name and the Indian motorcycles are just renamed Victory. They wanted to keep both brands but would be stupid competing with each other. rather than only having one to put their full attention to one. If Polaris stops Indian or sells to another company, I would probably switch to another brand. We have an Indian dealer in Spokane and the next closes one is in Seattle, so if they only just closed this one, I would be thinking of something else because I couldn`t take it 400 miles for service when or if needed.
Companies exist to make money. With Indian doing well, they’re not going to shut it down.
I was a Buell guy, I owned several of them. When H-D closed Buell, I was pissed off. But a fact I couldn’t deny was that Buell had a small percentage of sales.
No disrespect to Victory, but fact is it wasn’t gaining customers (being an alternate to H-D) the way Indian is.
Right now I see no reason why Polaris would close Indian. I believe they’re going forward with it. I have two Indian motorcycles, and I love ’em.
That thumbnail tho😅
I enjoyed my Victory CC, smooth 106, powerful enough, and the ride was great. I hate Polaris for killing the brand. I will buy an Indian when they drop the "Since 1901". The original company shutdown long ago. How about Re-established 2014 with a modern twist of the original.
For now I will stick with my Road King and wear my Victory t-shirts.
They wont shutdown Indian. They retired Victory to use the Indian name, which has a legacy.
Mr. Bicasso, i do like your content very much and i respect your efforts put forth in your channel. Being a Victory owner i will absolutely not buy an Indian because of that simple fact that you stated. Indians are not selling well around where i live.
I think the question is what will motorcycles look like in 2035+ and how will Polaris and HD deal with changing technology, government regulations, and more people embracing sustainable living? In the mean time, there's a gap between ICE and a growing segment of younger riders who want smaller electric urban mobility and have no interest in the "open road" generation. Polaris and Zero Motorcycles have a 10-year partnership agreement in off-road vehicles and snowmobiles. Harley has LiveWire but hasn't made significant progress. The company who can capture a multi-generational product line will gain market share and Polaris appears to be well positioned.
Love this take especially with Vic having the electric Empulse before closing shop. 🤙🏾
I took my Scout in for the State Inspection, and they said they were seeing some issues with the new scout. Some noises in the forks and engines. Cycle World just put out a review comparing the Sport Chief to the Low Rider S and they basically said the Low Rider beat the Chief in every category. I truly believe Indian’s look better than Harley’s, while Harley has a grip on the 40yr old customers, I think Indian can easily capture the younger buyers.
Also my Dealer does the Big Bore 1300 kit for the Scout and I may consider it in the future.
My Low Rider S I’d say felt faster than my Chief in some ways. Putting them side by side in speed is probably splitting hairs, but the Low Rider 100% had better cornering agility.
I thought about the big bore for my Scout 60. Gains would’ve been impressive.
@@BrandonBicasso I would love to see a big bore scout with the Krazy Horse Street Hooligan Kit!
I can completely respect those that had their heart broken with the Victory name, from a business point of view keeping Indian over Victory made sense as it had more value.
But Indian being shut down wouldn't make a lot of sense unless they actually fell over and in today's market I don't see that happening. Name brand is too positive.
And I couldn't be happier with my chief so far either.
You and me both. I like the conversation tho! When people ask why Indian doesn’t go a certain direction in the market, I come back to this topic. They’re very strategic in their direction to not get caught out by this market.
@@BrandonBicasso I think a large part of this is simply the endless need for some people to find problems with the brand they're not a fan of.
Don't like rock music well all rock is bad because they don't say enough words and rap is better.
Silly example maybe just trying to make a po6
I think this is a very big concern, I own Indians and the more I look into the story the more concerned I get, Polaris appear to have developed the Victory purely to put the technology into Indian, I think that was always the plan. Here in the UK we have about the same amount of main dealers for Harley as we do Indian but the main issue Polaris will not support independent service garages which reduces the customer choice and also gives the main dealers the chance to exploit the pricing and get away with poor service. Even with the woke issue I feel HD have the upper hand as there are more choices in service and parts than Indian. I think the HD scheme for independent service garages also includes warranty work which is the same for America and the UK. Which could be the difference of a local quick fix to a couple of weeks with transport costs. Indian is a very, very small part of the Polaris portfolio and is a real concern that they may one day get bored and do another Victory!
I would prefer not to buy an overpriced Harley but what you articulated is the only reason I'm still considering Harley. I always get the feeling that the tech at any Polaris dealership probably has some motorcycle experiences but may or may not have tons of Indian experience. There are no 20 year Indian motorcycle techs out there.
Shooot, It would be harder for us to come back from that!
I know a lot of people were upset about Victory but it absolutely made sense for Polaris to put everything into Indian. Victory just couldn’t gain any traction. The Indian brand has heritage. It was the only way to compete with Harley-Davidson and it would have made no sense to keep both brands going. The only way Indian goes away is if the motorcycle market goes away. Polaris has made the brand viable again. It’s on solid ground now. They were probably the only company that could pull it off. It may not be the original company, but I’m okay with that. We can’t go back in time and keep the original company in business but this is the next best thing. Harley-Davidson needed real competition. It’s good for the consumer. Victory wasn’t getting it done.
But yeah, if Polaris ended Indian Motorcycle manufacturing, it would be suicide for any future motorcycle manufacturing for the company.
It didn’t make sense for them to produce two separate lines of motorcycles. When they had the opportunity to acquire the Indian brand, they not only got the IP, but they got the legacy and history that they could build on. That’s the only reason why they shut down Victory. I can’t see anything better coming along that would have them shut down the Indian brand save for a total collapse of the motorcycle market or HD buying Polaris and shutting down the brand to eliminate competition which would probably be blocked by the government to prevent a monopoly in the US market.
Oh, that’s the first time I’ve heard that. HD buying Polaris and shutting out competition. That’d be wild if jt ever came to that!
My father was a victory owner untill the day he had a low tire and had to take most of his bike apart just to get to the tire, he went to the indian dealer here in town and traded it for a BMW, lol. Thought I was going to say Indian, didn't you. RIP dad.
If they sold Indian and bought Harley Davidson with the same or greater attention to improving the brand, reliability, etc, everyone would love them, except the haters and some Indian Owners!
Victory made some of the baddest bikes available when i graduated high school. Still want a jackpot. Love my harley, love my yamaha, love my kawasaki. Parts are easiest to find for harley.
If they shut down Indian i would never consider a polaris based product. Period.
Love your progression brotha. Keep the shiny side up!
The jackpot was the first Victory I saw! That 250 rear end led me to the 109. 😮💨
Victory and especially Indian forced Harley to get off their ass and step up their game! You would not see the leaps from their 1950's technology by Harley any other way. Garage floors everywhere will be cleaner and happier as a result! Still have my Vegas BTW.
Victory was dying
Unfortunately 🥲
It was and they did not want to invest or upgrade anything those last couple years....
Then we would all be sad. I ride HD bikes, but I have freimds who ride both Victory and Indian bikes. We love our diversity.
Woah woah woaaaah nonono I aint putting no energy on that
😂😂😂😂😂
@@BrandonBicasso 🤣
They did not keep making parts for Victory!
I could see Polaris selling Indian. If sold to an American company or holding company, then I would see that company shutting it down or selling it overseas. Chinese could produce these bikes and assemble them in the US.
Indian motorcycle is growing by the day i can only see it growing even more they put a lot work into the brand just let it go like that I can’t see it happening
Really, wasn't the Scout just a de-tuned Octane as opposed to the direct lineage of the OG Scout
I’d be curious to know why they put a similar engine in the Scout with less numbers. Odd decision considering they share a number of parts.
@@BrandonBicasso I believe in the Octane it was directly targeting the Dynas and the Indian the Sporty. Sadly, I can't offer more than that.
The local Indian dealer is full of used HD’s traded in for new Indians.
I think of Indians shut down Harley shut down afterwards. If they're selling there's no reason to shut down. It used to be if you couldn't afford a car you would buy a motorcycle. Now the prices I'll get into be where it's cheaper to buy a car than a motorcycle then I would see motorcycle company starting shutting down. I don't even want to talk about the cheaper Chinese products coming in. I'm sorry e-bikes.
it will never happen, as sad as it was for the Victory brand, they did well, Indian is a brand that can be used all over the world, even those who are not passionate about custom motorbikes know it, Victory doesn't, for example, in Italy only enthusiasts everyone in the custom world knows this about Victory, Indian
Here comes Excelsior -Henderson revival...lol
Oh sweet Lord that would be something 😂 They do have the assets for it too. 💀💀💀
ain't gonna happen...wish they kept Victory alongside Indian, however I get it. Victory may be the best US made bikes ever built
I always felt that Polaris shut down the wrong brand tbh, I get why they did it, but Victory was such a breath a breath of fresh air for cruisers at the time vs Harley.
A Victory still stands on its own today. The styling and engine is 🫰🏾
After 5 Harley's I'm over them. I like the Indians, I'd buy another Triumph I've had 2 already. Even another Honda. The Moto Guzzi Griso maybe. Hells bells even BMW maybe.
I mean, they still own the Victory brand rights, eitherway, the Victory branded bikes looked better imo.
And allll the assets
Based on what I saw vis-a-vis how many Indians were on the road up in Sturgis this year vs. two years ago, it was eye opening. A huge percentage increase. No where near half/half, but still very telling. And this was well before all the wokeism backlash took hold. Seriously, the only thing I heard about moan-wise from the HD crowd up there was how the new bikes sounded, the VVT was a bad idea, they didn't like all the LED stuff looking more like Indians, etc.
I have two Indians in my garage and I plan to keep it that way. The loss of Victory was sad, especially how they had to roll it out and torpedoed a lot of great mom/pop stores the way they did, but the DNA remains. You put an Indian next to a Victory and you can absolutely see the same design language inside and out.
Yeah, I’m seeing more Indians on the road which is awesome to see. The momentum keeps going. The styling is similar but those sharp edges and body lines are soo distinct on Vic.
OR they could shut down Indian if the sales aren't there and focus on their horrible reverse trikes and slingshots. Unfortunately, at least currently two wheel riders are getting fewer and fewer
If Indian would add one or two smaller bikes in the $5 to $10k price range, they could bring in a LOT more new riders. Just sayin'... not everyone can afford the $13k entrance fee to be a new rider.
I think bike manufacturers in general would do better if they focused on performance a bunch more and a lot less on TV screens and useless ( on a motorcycle in my opinion) tech and apps. Polaris could be a real leader in that direction. I would settle for a radio that I can bluetooth to my Cardio headset. I don't need a giant touchscreen with a bunch of unreliable tech built into it, unreliable tech that raises the purchase price and, arguably, is distracting and dangerous to use while riding. Just my $.02.
Indian has acquired a third of HD sales in 10 years
A third? Source?
follow the money, that will let you know which direction any company will be going. Get their public records via freedom of information act and see future projections based on information you find. Will they shut down? probably. not in next decade, but who knows what kinda bikes will be powered by then..... we all may be riding ARCH hydro powered hover bikes 🎉
If we’re all riding anything ARCH based, either they made cheaper bikes or we all got wealthy 😂
@@BrandonBicasso think positive mane! chump change gang ya heard!!!!!!
Don't say that Bran. Don't say that. 😨
Naw man. Just conversation. No different than anything else.
Victory 8 Ball. Gone. Loved those bikes. Indian is a better bike than Harley.... but better in a Honda sort of way. Make sense?
The Indian is better balanced, more reliable, better tech, better features, better, better, better... But, and this is a big butt, I don't want a Honda.
There's just something OG about Harley.
Knowing what you know now, do you wish you had rebuilt your original Bobber?
100% and that’s a great question. Thank you!
I just don't see it - Indian brand and Indian motorcycles especially the Scout has been very profitable for them
Never underestimate the stupidity a corporation like Polaris can practice...
GM shut
Down Pontiac and Oldsmobile similar reasons. GM is still around
I hear what you're saying but I'm gonna disagree. The easiest way for Polaris to recover from shutting down Indian would be to relaunch Victory. I think that has been the plan the whole time, Polaris never sold anything from Victory when they closed the doors. They still have the machines, molds and some factories that are loaded with Victory parts. Numerous aftermarket companies made Polaris offers for the equipment and dyes etc and Polaris refused to sell any of it. When they pulled the plug on Victory the company was attracting the young riders with the style of the cross country that had sleeker lines than the street glide. Arlen Ness was also involved in Victory giving them that that custom edge feel and cool factor from the king of custom. Sonny Barger rode a Victory Vision for years that was gifted to him by Arlen who also loved the Vision. I would even say they might do better if they shut down or sold Indian and relaunched Victory, being able to tap into the young new rider market again that Harley has NEVER figured out how to get despite numerous failed attempts.I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.