The Real Reason We Avoid Buying Indian Motorcycles
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2018
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Moral of the story: remove all incriminating evidence from your saddlebags before selling a bike.
Best comment
@John Smith I think it was a joke rather than actual prescriptive guidance
@John Smith Not sure any part is "supposed" to be funny it just incidentally is. It is pretty well established that there is no consistently effective way to explain how funny is funny, you either think so or you don't. I thought it was funny and still do. Please feel free to have another opinion! God bless
Gold
technically since the odometer was replaced and programmed to the correct miles... the Indian Dealership letter was moot at that point and should have been shredded. Not incriminating, just confusing.
Just as an update.
I bought this bike from SRK.
Two and a half years and over 14,000 miles later, the bike still runs perfectly. Although I will need to soon have the rear tire replaced.
bought a 2015 Vintage new ..still runs and drives like new 7 yrs later!
I was thinking all the way through the video: Its seems like a really good bike to buy. Well done.
Do you like cats?
dont go to Indian!!
@@quads4life1 why?
Zeroing the odometer is a common practice when changing gauge clusters though. By law, you need to disclose that you zeroed it and you need to write/tape a piece of paper literally anywhere with the actual miles before you zeroed wether the subject os a bike or a car.
So yeah, having the piece pf paper in the saddle bag was completely legal.
or taping it under the rear fender, or maybe even inside the tire
Exactly what I was going to comment. So the more accurate name for this video is: "I buy an Indian but don't know the laws around zeroed odometers and so I make everything worse for myself" haha.
@@malcolmstamp2249 Here's the law, seems like you didn't know. The Truth in Mileage Act (TIMA) is a federal law that requires the seller of a motor vehicle to provide an odometer disclosure to the buyer at the time of sale or transfer of ownership. ... At least one owner shown on the title must make their disclosure on the actual title.
Not really. The Truth in Mileage Act (TIMA) is a federal law that requires the seller of a motor vehicle to provide an odometer disclosure to the buyer at the time of sale or transfer of ownership. ... At least one owner shown on the title must make their disclosure on the actual title.
@@briarfox637
Not on vehicles older than ten years. Then it does not need written disclosure, to be listed on the title or bill.
I ran a small custom bike building business in the UK for 15 years. I was shocked by the way some others in the industry and support businesses treated me as a small business man. Plenty of very similar experiences and resulted in me aquiring the machines and skills to do most of those jobs myself in house.
I never went back to places that ripped me off and can only imagine how their retail customers were abused.
Sorry about your misadventure. My take: Right bike, wrong dealer.
Buyer Beware. I think all dealerships have, at least 100% markup. A Harley friend I have say's H-D stands for "Hundred-Dollars". Everything's $100.00.
@@tomchrisfield7348 true, as I owned many harleys, but they hold their value much better than these newer Indians, at least in my area, for example ,I bought a 2015 road glide, brand new, bought it Dec. 2014, and in dec. 2016 traded for a 2017 street glide, and got what I paid the dealership fo it, only thing it cost me was the interest I paid on the loan, when I traded it, I put everything back to stock, never heard any where else that does that!
@@shawnjarman9860 it's just like apple products, they have a cult following and are generally worse than average products with amazing marketing.
@KTMARV 1 thanks, I need a bridge.
@@tomchrisfield7348 Dude, everything has high mark up. That's how stores make money. What did you think? Your only paying 1%-2% markup for that TV you bought at Target?
A dealership over charging for a part... Imagine that.
I heard Harleys are now a import bike and not a pure USA made and designed product I’m assuming it’s true so with that how’s the build quality vs cost compared to the amc era aka other older Harleys etc. Or new or older Indians or Honda valkyrie / rune or star / jap ect. in disguised as a 1950s Harleys or Indian ect. And how many people still care about supporting USA family’s ( jobs ) ? And or buying patriotically ?
Richard Price they opened up production plant in Mexico as far as I know.
@@richardprice5978 wiring harness...but then EVERYTHING can get tracked back to China now?
Wow !! That’s so odd !! Lol 😂
... but they have 120 reasons why they charge so much, so it is not overcharging at all. :D
Well this was a weird situation and doesn't really call for a complete boycott of Indian Motorcycles.
its just one of those things that ruins a brand for you based on the experience. i hate certain car models based on issues ive had trying to sell
Its not the situation its the fact that he is a youtuber and no one watched the Indian videos. His fan base as a whole dont care about the brand. And on top of that it wasn't selling. No demand for the product. Its a money sink from his perspective.
Indian bikes for whatever reason really just don't catch peoples eye anymore. If you're a harley guy, you're just that. A harley guy. If you like Sport bikes, you like just sport bikes. Those rare gems are weirdos like me and these guys here from BaB. We just like motorcycles. I've owned exactly one Indian in my life and I honestly had hell getting rid of it. It was a 1949 and the throttle was on the wrong dang side. No one I met could get use to it and it just wouldn't sell. I eventually traded it for another weird left hand throttle bike. 1949 Triumph TR5. Which I also couldn't sell... so I traded it for a pair of Pan heads, which sold before I could get home with them. What I learned from all this is people don't like things that are different or weird. They stick to what they know.
He isn't saying boycott them, he is just saying he wont do business with them. Their labor messed it up, charged him more for a tire than market value, etc.
that's what i was thinking, even with the dealership hosing him that's representative of that dealership and not every dealership, my girlfriend and i have had to go to four or five ford dealerships before we found one that didn't instantly make us think they were trying to squeeze money out of us.we honestly think the one we were getting our fluids changed at intentionally failed to mention it was due for a transmission fluid change thinking they were going to get the transmission job when it finally blew. since they dont put dipsticks in their cars anymore there's no way we could check it.
I upgraded the stock speedo on my 2007 Vic Vegas with a Dakota unit. After purchasing the Dakota speedo, I sent it to the (Dakota) with a certification stating the exact miles on the bike. Dakota put that certified number on the speedometer and sent it back to me. The cost was maybe $35 plus shipping...easy peasey and completely legal.
It's not Indian, but that particular Indian dealership that should be dissed.
exactly
If Indian cannot fix the odometer, why would they take the risk?
@@worldhello1234 They made bike like royal Enfield so search in youtube you know reality
Isn’t Indian owned by the company that hung Victory owners out to dry? One other thing, every dealership is a “representative” of the mfg. if you don’t get satisfaction from the local representative call the factory.
@- king- 🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Illegal to swap out an odometer". So if your bike had a damaged instrument panel with no other problems, you would just total it out with the insurance company. Sure buddy
Yep, mechanical odometers always fail eventually. Every vehicle I've sold has had a malfunctioning odometer, and I've had to mark "actual mileage unknown" on the title. I had one car where it would sometimes go backwards.
I believe if the factory one is damaged its fine to replace it
And having a zero'd odometer doesn't wreck the value. That's where having proof from the shop of what the true mileage will be. It's also only deceptive claiming "low mileage" if you don't disclose the true amount. That's on you being a scumbag or not... It's also easily possible to go to another shop and have an odometer adjustment to fix it. It's illegal to dial back an odometer and act like you didn't. It's completely legal to artificially add milage on one to bring it to the correct amount. Odometers can fail just like any other part on a car. It isn't automatically boycott worthy just because a dealership didn't automatically adjust an odometer versus just leaving the proof of original mileage with the service record kept with the motorcycle. If it was a car, there would just be a sticker or something similar on the door but motorcycle laws usually just say "kept with the vehicle" since body styles and accessible/visible locations change so much from brand to brand.
@@Gr8thxAlot Now that is a miracle car. If only everything else on the car acted like time was going backwards.
@@motojaymn4131 yeah,,you blow the motor , drop a new one in,,,the motor is at 0. The rest of the vehicle isn't though.
I bought a new Harley Davidson and the rear spokes were never tightened at the factory. The warranty did not cover it because Harley Davidson said the wheels are wearable parts. The dealership then charged me $350.00 to fix it. The rocker boxes also leaked from day one and still leak to this day. When I went to the dealership the mechanic went out where the bike was parked with a ratchet and told me that should fix it. When the ECM went bad I was charged $1,300.00 and the bike still would not start and was the same as when I brought it in. I could go on but I'm starting to get pissed off all over again.
What year was the bike? The oldest HD I've owned was a 2007 Nightster Sportster and it was a really good bike. My 2020 LRS now has 7500 miless with no issues, but the handlebars were a little off-center when I bought it. I straightened them myself rather than trust the dealer. I wouldn't trust many HD dealer mechanics to work on my bike.
An odometer that starts at 0, and an overpriced tire.. I would personally consider these things trivial, but different worlds I guess. I'm just a consumer, not a trader.
Must be nice to be able to afford a $1,000 loss and a few weeks worth of hassles and call it "trivial".
3:45 fixed after a couple of weeks? LOL! The dude probably had the time of his life putting 4000 miles on the bike by driving it down route 66. Hell, he even got paid to do so. Well played dude!
Very possible !
...or pulled a Ferris Bueller and set it on a stand and let it run in top gear.
@@johnh2349 lmao
Nah he probably just drilled the wire
Best comment
I just saw the thumbnail and read “why we don’t buy Indians anymore”
Needless to say, I was very confused
Now we don’t buy, we just take.
@@SackKickingFatMan Instead of paying, why not just *T A K E*
the thumbnail should have been a picture of Sitting Bull.
🤣🤣🤣
Wow 😂
Perfectly reasonable for people who repair anything to charge for seeing what's the issue. That's time and money out of their day and that they could be working on other people's stuff.
Problems like than take time and energy often thinking outside the box into the early hours.
lol, but not $300 for just looking and seeing. Maybe $50 to $150 which is pretty much standard is all industries, plumbing, electrical, HVAC etc.
I'm late to the game on this video, but hopefully with over 2.1 million views you made more than $10 on monetization.
As an Indian owner, I feel the title of the video is a little misleading. It's not like you no longer buy Indians because they aren't good bikes, but you had an extremely unlucky string of events with it.
This could have happened to any bike, any, any odometer, any dealership. From the odometer breaking, to a nail in the tire, it was just bad luck.
The only thing I agree on is the dealership not fixing it properly. Sadly some dealerships are good, some bad. Dunno if you tried this, but you could have called Indians home office and explained the situation.
Anyhow, you seem like a cool dude who just had bad luck, and maybe could have done somethings different. But I wouldn't swear off Indians forever.
Misleading videos are a UA-camr's bread and butter. They all do it to make money.
I take it you didnt watch 5 min into the video
But, it didn't happen to another bike or at another dealer, it WAS his experience with Indian. So typical for fanboys to try and explain away a product/company's shortcomings. The measure of a company is how they respond to problems. Indian failed BIG TIME here.
@@killaken2000 how is it misleading? it states exactly what he explains in the video.
@@AutonomousCollective yup.. the big clue is the $300-400 cost to replace a tire. I drive a BMW with stock run-flat tires and it doesn't cost that much to replace one.
I'm the guy who bought the Indian. Sean was completely up front about the speedometer issue and resolution during the transaction. The bike has been almost perfect since I took delivery. The only issue was with the chrome on the kickstand which Indian replaced under warranty. I would definitely buy another bike from SRK.
Wow dont fix your bikes at the dealership haha
Anyone could've missed the nail.
The first Indian dealer should've put the mileage on the new speedometer, don't let them tell you they can't.
The dealer in Tennessee should've asked more of the RIGHT questions.
Always empty saddlebags, documents get shredded - parts go to the customer.
Dude -That is the nicest bike ever - an you bought from a stand- up dealer
ropermachine right you are - the private shop did it - they have factory support and could have even it sent it back for factory repair - they caused the problem
@@1badhaircut
Says the guy who probably works for Bikes and Beards dealership.
When you're in the business of buying "as is" deals from auctions for the purpose of reselling isn't that a risk you take?
Yup, still really sucks when things go sideways though.
Yea that is true but at the same time it’s still under warranty the sold as is pretty much goes out the window for the bike as long the dealer it may be says it’s under warranty I did retail wholesale are dealers for 15 years and technically Indian is in the wrong and the dealer he sold it to should’ve took it up with the dealer that done that work because the way law is he’s rite as long as your not trying to cover up mileage it’s legal if not they wouldn’t make replacement speedometers and odometers they use to use stickers which may still have to on some older ones if done correctly
@@patrickhollis5332 Jesus! Ever hear of a sentence?
@@mrpoizun Uh, yes my son. I have heard of a sentence. And, I also forgive people's sins.
Kind of sounds like my 2018 Harley Davidson. I couldn't get HD to stand behind my HD bike then that I bought new then and it only had thousand mile when I rode it from Ft. Bragg NC to Sturgis SD. On the way it kept cutting off and after it cooled down for about an hour it would start and continued to ride toward Sturgis. It finally stopped north of Omaha, Nebraska leaving me stranded on a side street there. I called for HD service to get the bike towed in to a Harley dealership in Omaha. After sitting there for hours the dealership said they would have to call Harley-Davidson corporate headquarters and see if this was something they could fix there under the warranty, after hours waiting no answer was returned by phone! I called a cab and went to the nearest hotel for the night. Next morning returning to the dealership the manager told me they can't fix the bike there, I would have to find another dealership to work on the bike and HD corporate suggest me calling around to other HD dealerships and ask them if they will do the warranty work? I then said ,sooo if you buy a HD motorcycle and have trouble on the road not all dealerships will honor HD warranties? The Manager just shrugged his shoulders and walked off! I called HD corporate and gave them a cussing and told them I wanted my money back and that the bike was being left in Omaha, Nebraska HD dealership to refund my money so I could catch a flight back to NC. They didn't refund all 5 thousand dollars I paid down but did send 2,800 dollars to my bank account, I flew back to NC and Bought a new Indian the next day,I haven't looked back since. I'll Never buy another HD in my lifetime! ~ F'm
I’ve heard of others having this problem. They never had this issue. I have never heard of that happening. No way this would have happened if you went to another Indian dealership
Wonder if the speedo repair guy fixed it by just letting the back wheel spin for a while
It's a Digital speedometer there's no wheel to spin Backwards
@@stevenwilson2605 the back wheel? And they wanted miles on it not off it. Either way I'm just being a jerk :)
That's exactly what I would have done. Manipulate the speed sensor to get the miles back to original.
@@IlIlIlIlIlIlIlIl yep, reluctor wheel chucked in a dewalt with the trigger ziptied... ezpz
In the older models you could just attach a drill to the tip of the odometer cable and run it front or backwards... ;)
Odometer affadavits are completely normal. Replacing odometers with new or used odometer heads is totally normal. You just keep the affadavit with the title and transfer it to the new owner at time of sale. I wouldn't even have bothered with any of that crap.
No shit ! He wasted a ton of money and time on that !!
@Casey R. Well apparently didn't work in this case; the new odometer read zero. Maybe they replaced the ECU too?
@Casey R. As to setting the mileage on a digital system, depends on the design. They could easily design a system where the mileage was not alterable if that was the requirement. Certainly it should be hard and ideally it would only be possible to do by a dealer who had a digital tool with a secret crypto key, otherwise anyone with enough knowledge could alter odometers at will. But it could also be built to be impossible to alter (other than making it think it was running and count up only - like if you want to set it to 8000 miles, put it on a circuit that makes it think it's going 100 MPH and let it run for 80 hours.
Nothing new. As someone else stated this has been the way it is for years, even with old analog odometers from cars. The speedometer cluster cam with a sticker for the installer to fill out and attach to the door jamb. If you really need something to ponder think about this, VDO speedometers, the mechanical ones had an odometer driver gear that would deteriorate leaving the speedometer working just fine but no odometer. Think Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, VW, to name a few that used them. Owners would drive them for years taking them in for repair only when time to sell, and those units were repairable, with only the customers word that " It just went out a mile ago". Think of that the next time you but that classic SL500 or Carrera.
but that's 'deceptful' 2:32...(".)
I've had to replace digital speedometer on Harley-Davidsons and when you buy a new speedometer from Harley-Davidson it comes programed with the correct mileage from the previous speedometer.
You are the type of guy that I would buy a bike from, your that honest and caring, thank you
I owned an Indian Scout ( yellow) for fourteen years and loved that bike . My only problem that turned out to be a real pain in the butt was the 10 HD dealerships within five miles of my house and the ONE Indian dealership that closed down a year after my purchase. Please be sure when you chose a certain motorcycle that plenty of places will be around to work on them when you need them or else learn how to do your own work. There is now one Indian dealership that is open near me but now I’m subject to whatever they charge, good or bad.
Shouldn't have folded like a lawn chair to the dealership that bought the bike from you. You were in the right. Sometimes you have to stand your ground.
Tru but he didn't know that, he assumed the dealer knew what they were talking about
Hold on. His company presumably buys and sells dozens of bikes. if this is a long-term business relationship -- or has the potential to become one -- it's better to fold on this admittedly sketchy situation to avoid poisoning the well. What he should have done is explained the odometer problem before shipping the bike. Either hide it or disclose it up front, don't just leave evidence on the bike and hope for the best.
I mean I just saw this whole video. I trust this guy. I still wouldn't try to resell this bike, cause I don't want to be having to explain this whole odometer situation to any client that looks at it. I'd buy it for personal use tho.
@@spdewertton well 💰💰💰 the bag looks good. In this kind of business you have to roll your money its buy and sell the longer you hold your items the more you lose. But i get what your saying reputation is always a must.
The guy literally agreed to pay money he shouldn’t have, left, right and centre… as for bitching about the tyre replacement cost, should’ve just fitted it himself…
Business, making videos, or the public sight. Remember, progress is important to a lot of people these days.
(Management in a lot of factories have people with no social skills, but with pride in the company they work for and them selves. They take care of what needs attention at home, and plan on retiring with the same company in 20-30 yrs)
This guy, on this channel, is ready for SRK 2.0...
My congratulations, you have done a very noble deed!
Thanks for the video, you give a lot of valuable information.
I wish you health and enlightenment!
im surprised that you had all this trouble over a speedo. i worked at a car dealership, and from time to time we had to replace a speedo, usually over vandalism damage. we would simply send the new speedo to a shop, that run the new one up to the current mileage listed on our repair order. the new one would have identical mileage to the old one, no problem.
Feel like I just listened to some dude ramble at the bar.
Trent Marko Yep 😝
Sorry to say but it’s a mistake over a mistake that they made.
You have original paperwork from Indian that the Odometer has been replaced with the exact miles the bike has... What the F... is “tainted” about that???
Than you go and sell the bike without divulging the whole story of what you did... all your blame Dude!
Very lame story
🍻🍻
I'm a bartender and absolutely agree. I enjoyed the story though and would definitely pour this man one on the house.
I miss those days !
Were you drinking while watching this? Lol!
He definitely took ten long way 😂
"because you can get 20 Chinese for the same price!"
The amount of pure edge radiating from this comment is nearly unbearable
I'm Chinese and this shit is hilarious 🤣
LMAO HAHA i saw that 😂
Great joke! I actually laughed out loud
You are dull in the head.
The new 2022 Indian Scout Bobber is like $8,000 starting
I now have an Indian Challenger...love it! I have owned at 25 Harleys, and many metrics, Wings, and BMWS! They all have their issues and bad dealers.... good way to alienate your audience!! I have lost money on most all and have been stranded on the side of the road on quite a few Harleys!
The speedometer in my 58 GMC pick , on a trip to Alaska, went south, so.....I took the innards out of a 58 Pontiac, engineered it into an old Studebaker housing, and then installed into the dash of my pick up. It looks like it could be factory, but is cleaner and now goes up to 120 mph....it is also 'balls on' accurate.
The title should have been 'Why You Should Never Buy A Bike At An Auction' '!
When I saw the thumbnail I was like "because it's illegal!!?"
joe wood no, he’s explaining an issue with Indian that could be a problem for anyone buying a used Indian. Good video to be honest. I didn’t know that.
@@AdiKotes119KRITICAL hahaha awesome dont think anyone else got your joke.
@@user-tq3ud9zi7w haha ikr
Should be called all sales are final, never fuck with dealers.
I'm in the welding industry. Any machine that needs to be sent in for a problem costs $125.00 just for them to look at it, whether they fix it or not. Their time and knowledge is not free. Nor should it be. They give an estimate, and if you go for it, they take the $125.00 off the work. It's basically one hour's labor. If your guy looked at the odometer, and spent several hours trying to fix it, then saying he "didn't do anything" is wrong.
That's just greed dude.
@@timothybaker639 Nonsense. Fix it yourself, or buy a new one.
@@filthwhistle charging a person just for looking at their vehicle, is robbery. And it makes u a true greedy piece of shit. I work on bikes for people. And I sure as hell don't charge them just for looking at their bike. I charge when I actually fix something on their bike. You're greedy.
If the mechanic didn't tell you there's a fee to try to fix it up front then he is shady. As a computer repair person I charge $50 (Australian $$) to investigate issue, quote a repair price and deduct $50 from the quote. But the customer knows that up front. You are paying for my skills and knowledge. I also tell customer what I think the issue is and let them try to fix first if they want. Probably why I'm not rich, but I am happy because I am honest.
@@timothybaker639 so the Dermatologist shouldn’t charge you for looking at your skin?
I like your “at my shop” format with continuity between vids.
Gotta' say... You lost money, but you gained my respect. I'm new to any bike channels, but I have subscribed to yours. I will check out your channel. I have been without a mc endorsement for almost 40 years. Taking the course next month at Smoky Mountains Harley Davidson. I don't want a Harley. I think I want a more traditional/quieter bike. Something comfortable to sit up on and ride. My last bike was a Honda CB 750? Been so long I don't remember, but definably a CB. I'm liking the Bonneville. What do you recommend for a 62 Year old man with a bad right knee (Army injury 🇺🇸👍)? God bless 🙏
Years ago I had a Yamaha Roadstar that had the odometer replaced due to not registering properly. It came back to me from the dealer with 0 miles just like you describe. Indian is not the only one that does this. Indians have improved since 2016 and are priced less then an equivalent Harley motorcycle. The best thing is to ride each one and see what fits you the best. Don't count out Indian. Yes, I own the Roadmaster and I wouldn't trade it for the Ultra/Limited Harley. I buy a bike to ride.... not to make money on! If it fits and you like it then ride it.
That's right girl. You RIDE a motorcycle... not DRIVE it like the snowflake stated.
So the take home is that you don't buy indians cause you over paid for a tire, can't change a tire on your own and didn't disclose the whole story to the first buyer... Um, ok. :-/
kiwidadygirl yep that’s there Mo.. ADAMAC HACKS.. & When you go there Thay talk to you like your the idiot.. glad I Mount & Balance All My Own Tires Now.. Cause ADAMAC HACKS SUCK ASS
@Trashman Indians and HD tour models use the EXACT SAME TIRE!
Thanks for doing this and going through all of this trouble! Whooda thunk? It is very deceitful!!!
Integrity is everything. Character and honesty go hand-in-hand. I would buy a motorcycle from you because you've shown integrity above and beyond your own interest of what is right. The old saying "the item is only as good as the seller" holds true today. Take a very good look at the seller, his background, his intentions, his past dealings, as well as his integrity.
Watch collectors have a saying, 'Buy the dealer, not the watch.' You can mess with watches and they aren't always what they're represented as being. But a dealer with integrity won't let a piece of crap like that pass through his stock, and if by chance he somehow does make an error, he'll make good when it's brought to his attention. I'm guessing motorbikes are somewhat similar.
"I'm like, he's like, I'm like, he's like, I'm like, he's like, I'm like, he's like"
You no like?
do you feel "decepted"?
Hahahah!!!!
Who actually read this all the way lol🙋♂️
He’s adjective and adverb poor.
When I read the title I thought the problem was with the bike itself...
Exactly this dude is an idiot.
Mingo 92545 this bugger has a problem
So the odometer was already sketchy when you bought it. A previous service invoice search should have been performed to match up mileage and dates prior to purchase. Who knows how many miles were actually on it when you bought it. The current owner may have over-paid for a bike with 40K miles on it. 🤔.
Sounds like you got a "lurker" IE there is something lurking in the bike that attract every bit of bad luck for miles around. I had one of those once. It kept failing (stopped sparking) and was a distributor type ignition so nothing complicated. It worked when it was bone dry, and it worked when wet. If it was damp and cold however it would sometimes cut out. Turns out it was the type and grade of ignition lead. IE when wet it moved ever so slightly away from the metal work so did not ground through the insulation. When dry the insulation was good enough (just) however damp got into the insulation over a period of a couple of days and spark strength was lost. I had to build a circuit to measure spark strength for that and use a digital storage oscilloscope (I used to design automotive electronics). Nearly drove myself and the dealer I bought it off bat crap crazy. Ended up building him a rig to test spark strength too. It could measure to the nearest 10mJ. The indicators went after that, then the crank bearings, then the front wheel axle broke (no I've never even heard of that either). The final straw was a casting problem that resulted in a very small hole in the cylinder wall. The dealers exact words were "how the F*** did that happen?". This was all in the extended 1 year warranty I bought. Legend has it he took a sledge hammer to it before scrapping it. It was a CB250N I bought for commuting so no big loss to the world of bikes.
so is that indian bike the only one you ever lost money on? If you stop selling every name bike you lose money on, you will not have anything to sell. You win some, u lose some, thats the way it is.
Absolutely, some times you won and some times you lose. I still like Indian
@Johnny Appleseed Sean made me respect his business even more by telling this story. He is showing all of us who are not in the business, the ups and downs of sales. I own a Honda and still would upgrade to an Indian.
I submit that INDIAN failed to do what they were supposed to do, that being to make an odometer that functions for at least 100,000 miles AND, when they replaced the trash original gauge, INDIAN Failed to set the New Odometer that they installed onto SRK's motorcycle to the correct mileage accumulated. If the the local odometer shop near SRK CYCLES was able to set the mileage readout to be accurate After Some Effort, INDIAN Should Have Been Able To Do It WITHOUT Difficulty!!! INDIAN Started The Problem, by having an odometer that failed at 4 or 5 thousand miles. Then INDIAN Compounded The Problem when they Failed To Set The Replacement Odometer To The Accurate Miles Accumulated when they returned the motorcycle to SRK.
@Johnny Appleseed agree, if i did'nt finish the whole video, my thinking would have to NOT CONSIDER to buy an indian, sometimes its a good thing to read comments from viewers. I STILL LOVE INDIANS
@@BikesandBeards but you said you will not sell them anymore. Do that with every bike you lose money on and soon you will be selling kiddie cars.
So let's look at this:
1) Indian replaces the gauges for 50 bucks, and gives a certificate of the actual miles, srkcycles gets salty
2)srkcycles takes it to a guy who schedules them, puts the time in, and attempts to work on the odometer. After working on it, he cant do it. Srkcycles makes a big deal of paying him for his time. Eventually hes able to fix it.
3)srkcycles proceeds to sell it without disclosing problem (right after complaining about deceptive marketing), is surprised when buyer is sketched out.
4)proceeds to sell it again, without inspection
And this is all Indian's fault?
It's never a millenials fault.
Ive just noticed some other deceptive business practices by this company. They are TOTAL BULLSHIT SCAM ARTIST$
Also sounds like a freaking cry baby, cause he can't make a buck. Karma
atusek I have no idea how you guys anything he did was wrong...
Number 3 is incorrect. The odometer had been fixed and had the correct miles on it at that point.
Had the same problem on both my BMW f650gs (2000 and 2007), at 10000 km's they blank out to zero, the bikes were way out of warranty so when I sold them I was very nervous, luckily a BMW engineer bought them and he told me it's normal, I've never touched a BMW again, I would've lost over 5k if I had to sell it to average Joe
Just saw this one....who 'drives' a motorcycle. You get the manufacturer to write up an confirmation letter listing the original mileage when odometer was changed. Any Dealer will help you. Is it really that hard to figure this out?
It's, "deceiving" not decepting. The other reason to never buy Indian is you have no idea if Polaris will shutter the Indian brand in a few years like they did Victory.
The early Victories were decent bikes once they fixed their transmission problem. They the went all "George Jetson" trying to be everything to everybody and eventually became nothing that anyone wanted. They tried riding the "American Chopper" wave but couldn't read the tea leaves that this is not what most people wanted. I will give Victory and Indian credit for one thing, they forced HD to improve to keep up. In 1999 when the first Victories came out the biggest stock Harley motor was an 88, Victory came in at 92, then HD went to 96, Victory went to 100, Harley went to 103. Victory had brembo brakes Harley came out with Brembo, my 2003 Vegas had an oil cooler, my 2020 Road King has an oil cooler. Of course what fueled all this was the fact that Victory had Polaris as a parent company with lots of $$$ to pump into it. When they acquired Indian the writing was on the wall for Victory. My take, Harley should hope that Indian stays Viable so that they have to improve.
Why would they? Indian has been around since 1903, they're not gonna shutter it. Also, what does shutter mean?
@@LeakyTrees How can you answer a question not knowing the meaning of the main word? SMH Shutter means to close down business. Indian has been around since 1903, but they went out of business for decades and the NAME has been sold several times with no real success! THAT is one reason I question if Indian can survive, the other reason is that Polaris has no loyalty to their motorcycle customers. As soon as things get bad they run.
@@diamondrmp Well, I was answering under the assumption that the word meant shut down, but I wanted to be sure. You bring fair points, I understand, have a nice day. But I hope your next is as dark as the night.
You mean like Harley getting ready to close its doors? Harley is the one who's legitimately on the brink of Bankruptcy. You've got your brands mixed up bro.
That receipt the guy “found” in the saddle bag should have been photographed and prominently displayed in the EBay listing.
They probably assumed it didn't need to be, as the odometer had since been corrected. Honestly if it was me, I would've thrown that slip in the garbage after I had the odometer set to the correct mileage
@@ExplosiveBottle after all that. bye bye.
Yup, scrolled down a bit to find a comment like this. I'm surprised they didn't explain the odometer story within the ad. Would have saved a lot on shipping. Probably would have scared off some buyers, but they're honest guys. A smart buyer would believe them.
@@2ndShiftSupremeOverlord546 no a smart buyer would just avoid any bike that has a fishy story or something funky with it like that.... I don't believe anything anyone says when it comes to used vehicles or motorcycles.... Do you believe people that say things like car would run it only needs "part x, y, z"..... It's like if that's all it needs why don't you fix it and get more money?? It's because it's a flat-out lie and they really don't know what they are talking about
Exactly. Either disclose it upfront or actually hide it. Letting the buyer find out on their own makes a sketchy situation look even sketchier.
In Britain. It is illegal to tamper with an odometer. We call it clocking. However, it is not illegal to replace the whole facia, which includes another odometer from another vehicle. From a scrap yard, for example.
I used to work for Polaris, the Odo issues are widespread in their brands Replacing the gauge equals zero milage, the only way to find true milage is looking in the ECU data
I watch this to go to sleep at night, works every time!
9mins is good,i wait 9 hours before i sleep 🙁
It worked on me too last night
😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴
Same
This guy sure is a piece of work!
I listened to your report with an open mind because that's from working with rehabilitating addicted criminals. I am old school, but new to the bike buying world (I rode one time in the Philippines while on leave as a Marine from Vietnam). Now at my age I ride all the time (just got my Harley Davidson Riding Academy Cert. last year). I learned a lot of what to do and what not to do from this video. I have ridden In Vietnam (2018) and the Philippines, believe me that will help you grow an extra pair, lol. I don't subscribe to any channel but I just subcrbed to yours. I also get a lot Intel from the comments (thanks out there). God bless you and all bikers bro.
Spring of 1995 I bought a brand new 1995 Dyna Wide Glide from an authorized Harley dealer in
Columbus, Ohio. Electronic speedo so no speedo cable. Moisture got in and ruined it. Was replaced twice, both times when moisture got in it stopped working. Both times it was replaced the new speedometer read zero ! I only kept a guesstimate of the mileage and 2 years later traded it in on on a 1997 Electra Glide Standard at the same dealership.
Thanks for sharing. Good to know. 👍🤔
June 2019 - they have an Indian Scout listed for sale on their website.
It's not hypocrisy, it's click baiting. This dudes a master!
The Indian Scout is an amazing bike! Powerful motor, great handling for a cruiser. It only needs mid-mounted pegs and a decent seat. Can't wait 'til the used ones come down to my price range of ~$5K.
I'm sort of confused as to why this is an issue? If an odometer breaks, you can replace it. Indian didn't do anything wrong. The guy buying it was the person in the wrong if you advertised it correctly. This could have been any bike. As for the tire, that's just poor luck and also could have happened to any bike.
Every other manufacturer is able to put the new odometer back to the current miles.
Bikes and Beards I’m probably thinking of old odometers, not the digital ones. Either way, it’s still not a big deal. Titles have a block to check that says “not actual miles” in most states.
@Tom's Tinkering and Adventures
I don’t know about the cost of bike tires or the mount and balance issues on motorcycle tires, but I’d be hard pressed to suck up a $400 tire, mount, and balance shop charge!!!
That’s ridiculous!!!!
I’m sure I’d have had to ask them how much dope they were adding to the inside of that tire for that kind of charge!!!
AzzKicker 1234 yeah, that cost seems absurd to me as well but at that point it sounds like they only had that one option? I think I would have asked the buyer to wait for a tire to be ordered but maybe it had to be done immediately.
Most manufacturers have modern odometers that's plug and play. The actual mileage is stored in the ECM and BCM
I had the same issue with my 2014 Triumph, the cluster with the speedometer/odometer had to be replaced at 3825 miles. The new odometer was 0000.0 miles. The dealer told me they couldn’t adjust the odometer, and that it was against federal law to adjust the odometer.
Thanks for sharing this Indian odometer incident. I still prefer my 2015 cmx250c Honda Rebel tho!😃
You buy and sell motorcycles for a living and you don't have your own mechanic to deal with this kind of stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense
I quina feel the same here. Is this guy for real? Or its just a dude with a beard in someone else wearhouse with bikes in the back.
@Chris Kibodeaux he sais his mechanic. quina supid point to make without reading
Guys poorly mstaken, you CAN change odometers you need to have an affadavit but thats for dealerships not private party transactions and especially auctions...
You still have your integrity! Well done sir. Sorry about your loss.
When I had to have my odometer changed on my Harley the dealer had to order a new odometer from Harley with actual miles preset. They wanted to keep my bike until the new odometer was installed to maintain actual mileage. We did compromise since the bike is my only transportation and added 100 miles to the reading sent to Harley with the odometer order.
I don't ride a motorcycle (although I have in the past), but I enjoy watching your videos a lot. I am also immensely impressed with your open and candid feedback to your audience/the public. You provide the kind of honest information that I wish were present in every transaction. example: I would far rather have the odometer read the real mileage than rely on a silly piece of paper (that's gonna get lost) , if for no other reason than it shows that you care about your integrity and image. I just bought a used car with higher km's than another similarly priced with lower km's because I had more faith in the previous owner's handbook annotations (he marked all the key "caring for your car from new pages" with post-it's and his own notes). Respect to you. Dave
Most state titles have an odometer replacement disclosure section, just for this scenario. Does yours have that??
Polaris had the same setup on the Victory bikes as well. The mileage is NOT stored in the ECU so if the odometer fails or is replaced you get the mileage of 0 if it’s a new gauge or the mileage of the donor bike if you grab a used one. I love Victory/Indian bikes but I’m extremely skeptical when I see unusually low mileage examples.
I have a 2017 Scout with 2,000 miles on it. I just don't have time to ride . *shrug*
@@dmonaco1924You don't TAKE the time!
I had the dash cluster replaced (the gauges failed) on my chevy pickup and the company that supplied the new cluster adjusted the odometer back up to what the original odometer
I know the person who bought this bike from you. great guy and the bike is still going strong.
That kind of stuff is common . I am in trucking industry
And ive had odomiters changes theres always 0000 on the new one .
And the dealer gives you documents to keep with the Vehicle
exactly...I don't know why he is pissed about the paper approval
But what if you don't hand over the documents you can sell a truck for less miles obviously for a higher price are we that trusting now a days?
Rad story. Thank you for sharing behind the scenes.
Thanks for sharing ur experience,u did a good thing👍🏻
Really think that could have happened with any bike not just Indian. Anything can have an odometer replaced just as you guys did and you would have to just put it on the bill of sale what the mileage was at time of changing it. Could have saved yourselves the headache.
Josh Steinwand doesn’t change the fact that Indian charged them over $400 for a tire.
Johnny Appleseed their dealership seems to be doing just fine without a mechanic. So that comment is void.
There was so much 'hustling' going on here and it clouds the issue. That would never have been a problem in the dealership I worked at in the '70s, just note the original odometer mileage on the service bill and it's done. As for the tire rip-off, that seems the nature of motorcycling gradually pricing itself into extinction.
WoodyOn2Wheels Whose fault was it that they paid $400 for a tire? The dude who made this video, that's who. There are other places to buy a tire than the dealership.
@@WoodyRides The comment is clearly NOT void because they're down at least $150 because they couldn't do the tire themselves. Just because you don't agree with the point, it doesn't go away on your say-so.
The point was made, the comment stands.
I don’t know why your blaming Indian for your screw up. Simple deal Indian honored their warranty, you got new odometer installed by them. All you had to do was place repaired warranty odometer paperwork and your original paperwork and leave it at that. Explain in sale ad in detail of what took place and you have paperwork / pics before and after warranty repair and selling it with no issues. Done, sale complete no issues everything shows correct in paperwork and matches up. Done deal for any private buyer or dealer buyer.
You screwed the deal by adding miles after the repair and muddied the waters with not being up front when you sold it. That’s not Indian or any buyers issues that’s all yours. It’s called the stupid tax.
How is this a screwup ? You're claiming Indian "honored" their warranty by providing an odometer that's false and reads zero when the KNOWN mileage is much higher ??? WOW......
What about the tire fix outrageous!
You don't know why he's blaming Indian? Wow! Maybe because they refused to fix/correct their own odometer, which cost him money. That's not a complicated concept to grasp.
What Indian did was perfectly legal they provided the documentation that he required and dear Lord if people think $300 for a tire is expensive I have had to pay upwards of $450 to put a rear tire on on the road because of that exact reason I'm on the road you pull into a shop you pay what their labor is to get what you need if you don't want to do that then you should do the work yourself
Most brand new odometers read 'zero'. I don't see how this is a problem.
You can change odometers if they are broken...you can repair them if they're broken
Similar situation: New to me, 07 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 odometer is not working, will a need Gauge show the correct milage? Thank you
I would've bought the bike. That really isn't a big deal to someone that plans on using it.
agreed 100%
On modern Harleys the vehicle mileage resides in the ECM so even if you change speedometers the correct odometer reading will be shown on the new unit. Strange that Indian isn't using this method as well.
Bought a 2021 Indian Scout abs awesome bike no problems. Very quick and sharp looking.
He had a problem by buying a used bike
I wish you had a shop in nc you seem to be a real honest dealership
I've done the same with odometer and hour meter readings I have just kept a record of mileage or hours at time of replacement
That's a pretty weak reason to condemn a whole company.
Joe Blow lol you ain’t kidding bro
Exactly.
I think poor customer service is a valuable reason
i like watching my bosses fat boy milk batteries and piss oil all over the shop every year and that's after taking it to the dealer hd sucks.
This has happened to me on a Honda S2000. I still have it and the machine works well. Parts fail sometimes as long as there isn’t ill intent no worries. I don’t plan on selling my Honda. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
"No good deed goes unpunished" lesson learned 😞
Where I'm at the Harley dealership is the one known to have issues. But being an Indian owner, the Indian dealership isn't anything special either. It's really unfortunate because both companies make really wonderful motorcycles and a bad dealership can ruin everything.
Where I am at (Boise) the Indian, Triumph and Harley dealerships are all owned by the same group of people. They are in different buildings that share the same parking lot. They are all equally expensive to deal with and they are equally shiesty. The only thing they do right is they support the troops by raising money for the benefit of charity groups who aid them. I have never seem an audit for that though.
I needed some simple maintenance on my 2017 Road Glide Special and emailed the dealer from whom I bought the bike. No reply. Called them and left a message. No reply. Because I'm in a "Harley Triangle," I emailed & called the other two equidistant dealers; only one of them returned my contact and invited me to bring it in. I did, and they now have all my business. It's been a year since I've heard anything from the selling dealer, other than mass event emails. Geniuses.
I appreciate your honesty. Wish everyone felt the same. I Like that you subtracted the few bucks you made on advertising.. Don't let the bastards in this world get you down..
The honest thing is to replace the odometer, keep the new one untouched, and disclose the actual mileage and the reason for it being zeroed. That's an insanely common practice and its both the legal and the ethical thing to do. It blows my mind that these guys wouldn't know that as dealers. The person who didn't want it because they (illegally) tampered with the odometer was in the right, its a sign that something shady went down. They were idiots for having someone change it.
Frames break..I know a dude an his wife were killed going around a corner..the front end completely broke off ..it was a straight clean break too..the metal looked just like white metal...totally pieces of junk..
I know of fiat car dealers who disconnected odometers on pre-registration cars they used as run arounds and demonstrators, which they were selling as 0 mile pre registration
Really, this sounds like a snow flake story, and a huge waste of time. Just document, and sell..we have done many this way.
“Deceptful” ? No, it’s not! Since that’s not really a thing.
KeTech deceptive or deceitful.
Deceptful is not a word.
@Jerry Donohue HA! Yeah, I said the same thing. Solid comment friend.
Hah! I normally don’t go after bad grammar or spelling but when I heard that I actually turned my head and said “what??” 🤪
I have always wanted to own a motorcycle and, especially, an Indian motorcycle.
My inner ears precluded the operation of any two-wheeled conveyance.
Maybe I am lucky, given this tale of woe.
I suppose I shall have to content myself with memories of my AMF Roadmaster (26 inch). Ahhh, the late Fifties... Ahhh, the early Sixties.
Please enjoy your ride and, when you ride, have a thought for all of us who simply do not dare take to the road on two wheels.
I wholeheartedly applaud your effort to go above and beyond to do the ethically and morally correct thing.
My faith in today's youth is restored. Thank you.
Just saw your video thank you for being so honest it's just so wrong what they did to you I always wanted to buy an Indian but but honestly I can't afford it but I have a Yamaha V Star 1100 classic love my bike thank you for being such an honest man and may God bless your business always happy holidays
Look at it from the point of view of the consumer: One of my cars has a mechanical odometer, I can take it apart in 10 minutes and turn the little wheels to whatever reading I want. If I buy a second hand, used car with one of those, can I trust the milage? No.
My other car has a Canbus/ODB connected electronic odometer, I can change the mileage from my laptop, so I can't trust that mileage on that either.
But an Indian motorcycle where the only way of changing the odometer reading is by replacing the whole odometer, at some expense? Good on them.
Either dodgy dealers can change the mileage or not, make up your minds what you want.
Lols, growing up in the 60s 70s in a large city was the golden age of flipping cars. I lived next to the "curbside " King. This guy was truly amazing. He flipped some times a couple of cars a month. I watched in amazement as the dashboard came apart and he adjusted the odometer to a nicer number. Most of the time all done in one hour or sew. He was a high end curbsider dealing in cars no more than 3 years old that had racked up way to many miles to have very good trade in value. The one thing I learned from him was the importance of cleaning the car to greatly improve your chances of selling the car fast. I can't believe the way people try and sell their absolutely FILTHY CARS AND TRUCKS NOW, EVEN THERE HOMES.
Why not let us know which dealers shipped it back, so we know not to give them business, cuz making you pay shipping when you legally didn't have to take it back. That's plain dirty.
I suspect they are too grown up to do that - SRK seem to be a very fair company, I am sure they are doing well for themselves which is right and proper.
It was an eBay sale, they force to you to take almost anything back. I sell guitars on eBay and have been doing it for nearly 20 years. The buyer is literally ALWAYS right. I could spend all day going over my grievances there, but long story short...he could choose to accept the return on the buyer's terms or stop doing business on eBay. As anyone whose business relies on eBay's massive following knows...life isn't fair, make the smart business move.
@@abalen5932 Then do not sell on eBay, go cheat people somewhere else.
@@flyingdog1498 I'm not sure if you are just taking an emotional stance on being cheated on a business deal or if you are implying that I cheat people on eBay. I'll give you an example to clear up. This is just the most recent over the last 18 years, but not particularly unique. I shipped a $1200 Fender Jaguar to Brazil. When it arrived, the buyer claimed that the box did not contain a guitar, but 27 pounds of rocks and demanded his money back. Ebay asked for my reply to the claim. I pointed out that I have been selling with them for nearly 20 years with 100% positive feedback and I would not send a customer a box of rocks. They promptly refunded the buyer's money. Does the loss upset me? Of course. But I still do hundreds of deals per year where I make money and don't get cheated. People are willing to buy $1200 guitars sight unseen on eBay because they know eBay will take their side in any disagreement. It would take me years and cost me bucks to build up a marketplace with that level of exposure and credibility. So...I write off a $1200 loss...block the buyer from purchasing in the future and move on assuming most buyers will not cheat me. It's the right business decision.
If a seller does anything short of bending over backward at the slightest buyer complaint on eBay, they will be screwed. As an example one guy sold a somewhat rare violin a few years ago, the buyer claimed it was counterfeit, the seller provided proof that he had it independently examined and shown to be correct. eBay told the buyer to provide proof that they'd destroyed it and he'd get a refund. The buyer showed the violin in a smashed-up condition and eBay refunded the $30,000 he paid for it. The seller was just screwed. So yeah if you sell on ebay and they say you pay the return shipping, you do or you'll just be boned and get nothing back at aoo.
I purchased a used well known, sought after brand, desk radio, AM, FM.
It had a plexiglass case rather then the standard wood, maple, oak, etc, cabinet.
I wondered why a plexiglass? I really didn't care but seemed odd. I could not find a retailer with a plexiglass model.
Receiving it we found out, the box included the prison commissary recipe for the radio and a few more items picked up.
Seems TVs, radios made for prison have to have clear cases. Now to the prison's defense, this wasn't a cheaply made radio that would break in a year, but a standard one, just cased different.
It looked new, not a mark on it.
We saved the recipe, we figured it adds value. 😀
Man ! I would have loved the bargain and been Ecstatic that you had the odometer fixed RIGHT !
happy to know there are still people who prefer honesty and truth over making profit even if it comes at a loss...........dude i highly regards your sincere honesty and to how much extent you went to not compromise on your rules. thumbs up!
I've owned roughly 25 motorcycles in the last 35 years and riden probably over a hundred bikes. I've owned 6 street glides and 4 road glides, bought a 2017 Indian Chieftain and I have to say it's all around a better motorcycle than anything Harley is building. The OEM FOX suspension and electronics with auto locking bags are top notch and the engines are way more reliable with little to no vibration like the famous vibrating harley engine, everything comes stock on the bike. Harley better step up their game to compete. The new indian challenger is definitely a competitor in the market with the fixed fairing and the liquid cooled American made V-twin pumping 134HP stock. I still think Harley is the better looking bike but Indians are hands down better riding motorcycles. Im not brand loyal I'm about the performance of the machine and overall quality of the ride. The fact that you get all these upgrades OEM stock for the same cost of the HD is amazing.
J3RK agreed.
In 2015 I test rode a scout and a 1200 sportster (then bought a yama xvs1300a lol which i just traded on a new Z900).
I honestly dont know why anyone would by the harley. Ida bought the scout had the dealership been remotely interested in selling a motorcycle. The xvs was approx 8k cheaper new, was almost as fast as the scout and handled and braked better than both.
But the scout had somethng the harley didnt for that extra money - it didnt feel like it was gonna fall apart any time soon. I was surprised the 1200 made it back to the dealership lol.
If i was gonna buy an american cruiser (highhhhly unlikely) itd be a toss up between a chief and a victory boardwalk (daaamn thats a good looking bike).
Nahhh lol ima sportsbike guy with bad knees so the Z900 is the boss. Loving it.
U move out of ur mama basemnet, bike expert, lol, kid from india
To each his own, I have an 18 RG and I love it, no problems so far, none. Stage 3, Dyno at 115/128 so I don't feel like I'm underpowered at all. Its a TOURING bike, my 85 Suzuki 1150 would blow it away. But an hour on that thing was a long ride. I must agree with you on the suspension tho, kinda sux, needs upgrade. I have a Polaris 4 wheeler, it's been mostly good. I've hardly ever locked my bags, so not sure why that's a big deal. I don't understand all the hate for Harley. I'm not a biker, I just ride the thing.
I been riding a 2067 chevy Pinto four stroke vtwin dirt bike 4200cc with a automatic Manuel six speed suicide shifting paddle shifter with a duel exhaust cherry bombed exhaust and gold played gremlin bell with diamond accents complete with a 3 week extended warrantee. Best airplane I ever drove.
Indians biggest problem is that it's a harley knockoff...it'll never hold its value.
I'd buy a bike from you any day, anytime. You're an honest dude.
I'd feel comfortable as long as the odometer reads the correct(ish) mileage. Zeroing is shady though 100%. But let's say you replace the instruments? You have to change a clusters odometer eventually on install, it happens.