Battery Analyzer Conductance Tester Review Part 1/2
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- In this video I review the CEN-TECH Digital Automotive Battery Analyzer to see how well it performs in measuring the condition of various batteries in various states of degradation.
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Nice video. There seem to be a lot of these testers and it's hard to tell whether they're worth having or not. Your explanation of some of the principals was helpful.
Here in the shop we use strictly midtronics units for their unparalleled accuracy!! Recently we compared a midtronics unit against the fluke multimeter and the voltage was a 100% accurate with that of the fluke meter. Midtronics is a Made in USA product!! 🇺🇲
Interesting and informative, thanks for sharing :-)
Very nice videos!!!!!
Good expository video.
Those clips are temperamental, they NEED a good connection or the tester beeps flashing a clip logo
I really enjoyed watching his videos. It's a shame he doesn't make them anymore. I hope he is OK.
have you tried to detect a battery with a bad cell (short cell) with this analyzer?
and what is the probable resistance value of a battery with a bad cell?
I have the same meter and I'm absolutely loving it. On my meter, voltage was a bit off but resistance measurements are very close to bang on (compared to some professional tools i could get my hands on). Both voltage and resistance readings can be adjusted with trimpots when You open up the meter ;) PS: it seems that the meter uses short 1amp current pulses and measures the voltage drop to calculate IR. So it's rather an internal resistance meter, not conductance.
Interesting on the trip pots - that's good to know. I also did not test accuracy over temperature which I wonder about. BTW conductance and resistance are the same quantity - one is the inverse of the other. ;)
It's a great meter - I use it all the time now and it has always worked as expected.
*****
Ok, thanks for pointing that out to me. It's not the first time I've confused conductance with impedance. English not being my first language is certainly not helping. So, impedance was the one where they inject a sine wave and measure phase shift between voltage and current signal. I think I got it now... Accuracy over temperature would be interesting, because I often need to test batteries in close to freezing temps. The meter itself would somewhat cool down.
Something to note about flooded batteries that i have noticed when testing with them testers. It only reveals part of the story.
For example, my partners 10 year old battery read about 450 cca ( rated 640 A) You would think it was sufficient for a tiny 1.4 sized engine. It was. It cranked nicely. However if she sat in her car listening to the radio for 20 mins or so the car wouldn’t crank. It’s reserve capacity was greatly diminished. The chances are your 10 year battery will probably have the same issue. If a flooded battery has a lower cca than rated be very wary of it even if it’s only 100 amps less than rated. Chances are it lost a big chunk of capacity along with it.
My AGM battery seems to have the opposite issue. It only reads 350 A out of 680A and of course i can tell it doesn’t crank as well as it did when new especially in cold weather. However it has loads of reserve capacity. I can sit in the car and listen to the radio or leave lights on and it won’t flatten easily. It still will start unlike my partners battery. To sum it up, my partners battery had higher CCA but low reserves but my battery has lower CCA but lots of reserves.
I agree with you. The best way to measure battery health is with a capacity test as it will more accurately show the loss of active material. The fortunate part of having a battery with poor CCA but good reserve capacity is that it can be desulfated and some of that CCA will come back for 'free'.
Another thing your post reveals.... don't sit in a car with the headlights or radio on without the engine running! That was the mystery answer to why my brother had to keep buying new batteries. In his case leaving the headlights on. Obviously you a radio uses a lot less power, but still.......Who woulda thought with a degree in electrical engineering that would slip past him!
@@annpeerkat2020 This was rarely ever done to the battery in question. It was a rare situation because of covid. She ate her dinner in the car that day because her mother is 90 and was afraid to go into the house and infect her pre vaccination. The real reason is the battery was 10 years old and the testers don’t tell the whole story. Last winter my batter read 350 amps(680amps) with a message “Replace battery”. Now it’s summer and 25 degreesC my battery miraculously is a “Good battery” with an added 150 amps now reading 500amps.
Playing the devil’s advocate maybe the tester is accurate and actually tells you what the battery is able to deliver at a given temperature but i was told that’s not how they work. So if that’s true one would have to test the battery at a certain temperature for an accurate reading. So i wonder what that golden figure might be.
@@Mickytdi Cool. Apart from temperature factors, I've had differing results apparently depending on the crocodile clip/ battery quality of connection. I think they're a useful indicator, but somewhat variable
Thanks
SWEET A VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The clips with one connection on each side are actually called Kelvin clamps. The idea is to use one side for the measurement current ("force") and the other side to take the voltage measurement ("sense"), therefore nullifying the contact and wiring resistance. You can replace the clips if necessary as long as you maintain the Kelvin connection.
I would definitely want to see a teardown of the device. Not just how well it's built but also what internal protection it has.
Isn't the impedance, of the battery, in ohms. being measured?
314Tazo
The impedance of the battery when subjected to an AC waveform is being measured. Batteries are strange chemical contraptions that behave in complex ways so the frequency and magnitude of this signal impacts the measurement result.
*****
I believe, a 1 KHz waveform is injected, into the battery, from the analyzer.
The analyzer will, then, do the calculations to determine the impedance, of the battery, in milliohms.
314Tazo I connected a 0.1ohm series resistor with the battery under test. I then probed the resistor and it seems that no AC signal is injected. Rather, several different current pulses (large power resistors inside meter?) are used to determine the voltage drop under load and hence, the IR. The largest pulse was only about 1amp. I guess no impedance then, just resistance? Was hoping for Midtronics-like AC measurement...darn. You're welcome to correct me if I got it wrong.
drezster
That's interesting stuff! I haven't actually measured with a scope but I can confirm after using it for quite a few applications that it works extremely well, repeatably, and reliably. I had assumed that it was a sine wave - I should have expected something different from a cheap meter I suppose. Regardless it doesn't make much of a difference in my view since current pulses should work just as well for lead acid battery testing.
They are not always accurate. I checked a friends battery with a conductance tester. It passed and said battery good with most of it’s rated cca. However if he leaves his dome light on for half an hour it struggles to crank. It does not measure capacity.
Where can I see table to convert from resistance and voltage to CCA? I have DMM and battery resistance meter.
+juliusvalentinas which cannot been converted, skype： davidcharles520， email： yangping@criane.com
deep cycle and 1000 CCA ?
so you say that if two deep cycle battery with both 100 ah
but one with 500 CCA and another with 1000 CCA
the second is better
for solar application use i asked ?
thank you
There are a lot of variables. In general deep cycle batteries have thicker plates which reduce CCA ratings, but there are many possible constructions so that isn't a hard rule. Some deep cycle batteries are made with very thin plates that offer both high CCA and relatively high cycle counts because of their specific construction for those deep cycle applications which require low internal resistance but reasonable cycling capability. You will have to look at the details of each battery to know which will be better for your application.
16:00 10 years is not an old battery. My last two factory installed batteries (Panasonic) lasted 15 and 16 years and would start the car at -30C. Of course the VR was spot on and all connections were clean.
That's pretty good. I usually get 10 years out of my car batteries and the average battery life for deep cycle batteries is only a few years, so I do consider 10 years to be old regardless.
@@knurlgnar24 There's no way you get anywhere close to 10 years out of today's batteries.
From wikipedia I got that CCA is the amps that a battery can deliver without going below 1.2V per cell. If I do the maths with the internal resistance I get a different value of Crancking amps than what your device displays. Why is that?
Batteries are complicated chemical systems that are very difficult to model with simple algebra. CCA is the amperage a fully charged battery can deliver for 30 seconds (I think) before dropping to 1.2V per cell. This is a very non-linear specification that does not directly relate to the internal resistance. Meters like this are good estimators of capacity and CA, but only an actual test can determine the exact values of Ah capacity or CCA. Even so, for practical applications the CCA rating is not that practical and this meter does a good job of measuring battery health.
Thanks for your explanation.
I thought that the resistance value was constant, no matter what the load is. I guess I was wrong!
Great video , good tool. I'm wondering about the orange battery , what brand, ?weight, ? & how much $ ? my 4 AGMs weight 76 LBs ea. THANKS sailersteve
The orange battery is a Powersafe SBS Eon battery. Model SBS-100F. It is AGM.
Marine cranking amps is the same as cold cranking amps.
Oops...marine cranking amps (MCA) is the same as cranking amps (CA).
What was the cost of th...nm you just said it as I do as typing, $150 bucks wow, you could take a zero off on alibaba in 2014
Do you suppose the Chinese also use the cheap shit they sell to the US?
I also do the drain test. It usually accidentally occurs when I am using a battery powered pump under stable conditions. Considering the pump usually draws about seven amps, it's pretty quick way to tell the condition of the battery or if it is going to make me some money at the scrap yard.
I agree that a long term load test is probably the best way to test a battery's condition, but it shortens its life and takes more than 10 seconds so a tool like this is very useful. And yes, China does use primarily Chinese stuff. The same stuff they sell to other nations. Not all of it is junk, however, they get that reputation due to the high percentage being poor quality.
+Project23D you can compare the criane parameter with midtronics, we have the same quality. skype: davidcharles520, email: yangping@criane.com
Project23D No the Chinese are not stupid. I was on the market in Shanghai with a chinese friend and after byuing some cheap stuff for my kids she went to a good shop buying German stuff for her friend. No kidding. It cost here a big chunk from her monthly salary but they even give only german imported milk to her baby refusing the unsafe chinese milk.
Hooked mine up backwards with no dramas, it just won’t work
Good to know! I'm still not going to do it on purpose though...
Carbon pile testers are somewhat good? Your joking right? Carbon pile testers are the gold standard by which all conductance testers are measured. Even a cheap harbor freight carbon pile tester is capable of 10 micro-ohms accuracy, on the other hand, the best conductance testers costing well over $500 are bearly accurate to 50 micro-ohms and that harbor freight model is probably no better than 500 micro-ohms.
The best way to test a battery is with a carbon pile tester and a good DVM. conductance testers don't actually measure the condition of the battery they simply guess the condition of the battery using mathematical formulas based on theoretical modeling. since they don't actually test the battery condition directly and rely on theoretical modeling there are many battery fault conditions that will actually fool conductance testers. That's why electrical load testing is the only legal way to test aircraft batteries.
With that said conductance testers are great for a quick check, but if there is any reason to question the results it's best to follow up with a real carbon pile load test.
Sorry, but having worked in a government battery lab evaluating and testing battery chargers and batteries, I do not have much faith in a conductance battery tester. I used upper end expensive Midtronics testers. And there is nothing like doing a REAL load test and capacity test using a load tester and Torkel Programma 860 capacity tester.
They have their place but I agree. Load and capacity testing is better. Unfortunately in most real-world scenarios people aren't willing to wait that kind of time for a test or don't want to pay for that level of detail so a fast 10 second test that tells a reasonable approximation of battery health has merit.
Dude, you should totally grow a beard.
Funny you say that as I only shave once every couple of months now. It almost got me into serious trouble when I traveled to China a while back with serious facial hair and an ID where I was clean shaven. I swear I'm not a Pig Capitalist Spy! If I have to go there again I'll shave first. :)
You have been looking for a battery analyzer for a long time? There are at least 11 well known brands that are of course more expensive than the Chinese unit you are promoting. Conductance means the ability to conduct electricity (as amperage or watts) it has more to do with the wiring (conductors). These videos are just painfully over pitched promotions of devices that serve no real purpose other than enriching you at the expense of the uninformed. Please feel free to sue me!
congradulation sir you have just been served
You will never get the correct readings on that meter while you keep leaving it set to 500cca
Before you go beaking off you should look up what a "Conductance" test is.
I know what it is and I also own a few of these meters being used here,
@@user-tv8sm6so9y He's not checking for CCA. He's only checking the reference value of a conductance test. Example a 105 AH Glas mat Alpha GX220 battery will have a reference of around 1100 meaning it's good. I recycle all that fail a reference of less than 700. Don't confuse what he is showing with a load test. This is a completely different thing.
I know what he is doing, I actually own A better one of these type of testers that does more and prints out the data.