They should cut the pay for the actors. They should swallow it and be happy with the publicity it gives their careers. Some of them are household names now
@@KingSlayer_.The actors work with what they’re given, so cutting their pay will do what? If it’s the writing that’s the problem, then that should be dealt with, not the onscreen talent.
@@KingSlayer_.what an absolutely smoothbrained take. the executives make decisions that hurt the final product and you call for the actors to take pay cuts.
@@kuong3467 That’s the problem with executives, they never think about the quality of the product these days. While their grandfathers and great grandfathers who were corporate executives did factor in quality.
GOT was 8 seasons long. Hotd is only on season 2. People want everything now now now! Hotd CGI bill alone must be freaking massive because most of it looked truly amazing! Probably cost 10x per episode more then GOT did per episode
I remember when some tv shows had like 20 episodes per season, every year.... Then 16, then 13, then 2 years between seasons, then 10, now 8, sometimes 4 split into 2 mini seasons. Fkn BS.
10-12 is perfect for most shows. when shows had 23 episode seasons the only episodes that mattered were the first episode mid season finales and premiers and the last episode. the rest were filler episodes with a hint at plot progression every now and then.
He has been doing a great job decreasing expenses which was something he was expected to do. We might not like the outcome, but gotta respect a good businessman.
@@wadeh7254 what “book”? How would you honestly want them to stick to the book? Season 1 was 2 chapters. Season 2 was again, 2 chapters. Let’s take season 2. Alicent, Daemon and Rhae do absolutely nothing in those 2 chapters. Alicent is a mustache twirling villain and Rhae and Daemon are non existent. You can say “I would’ve like them to portray blood and cheese the same” but to think this show hasn’t surpassed the book (Vicerys and the majority of characters) in character arcs or other than that one event they haven’t expanded far beyond the “history” book is asinie…I find it hard to believe you actually read the book. Rooks Rest was leagues above what was portrayed in the book as well. Only other criticisms I can find book vs show is maybe no Nettles (which is kinda a big deal for me) and bringing the white walker prophecy into the show (not a big deal, but unnecessary). Easy question although you’ll probably google it, what chapters in F and B do they cover in the first season?
Honestly they could've worked with 8 episodes. It's not even the lack of action and dragon battles that got me turned off this season, It's the awful writing, brain dead storytelling and character assassinations. I rewatched season 1 of GOT last week and god damn I could watch them just talking all day. There was tension and conflict. HOTD, season 2 specifically is just filled with nonsensical plot lines that veered too far from the source material. They're literally making the same mistake as D&D.
EXACTLY!! The writing just isn't there, I try mentioning this and I get bombarded by fans saying "you just want action and can't appreciate the show" No bro, GOT season 1 barely had any action and it is one of the best seasons in television history because the writing was phenomenal
he walked out simply because hbo didn't want to make his wife a producer. Now i get hbos pov but this guy was attached to some of GoT's great episodes and early house of the dragon. To let him walk is crazy
How do you make people lose interest in one of the most exciting genres of all time? Give the characters nothing to do. Keep promising that next episode will be the one. Then nothing. Just keep waiting. Then nothing. Well the season finale will surely be action packed. Nope. If they don't step up their game in the coming seasons, it might not only spell doom for this show, but for future shows.
So short sighted. Why would I pay $17 a month for 2 years, waiting for HOD 3.....? I FULLY expected a DANCE OF THE DRAGONS and BATTLE. Cancelled immediately after Episode 8. GOT screwed up their finale and ffs there was even a WATER BOTTLE and STARBUCKS cups in 2 separate scenes. Nah, I'm done being jacked around with executives who buys $50 million homes and expect $50 bonuses in addition to their $100 million salary. THAT is awfully convenient. DONE.
exactly. If no one is watching shows get cut. that's not greed but basic capitalism. As we are talking about art that is how art always was. Art was never made just to do it. It was always made for payment. Centuries ago until recently it was basically the subscriptions of Kings or Lords artist were interested in. And for centuries artists adjust their art to what gets them the necessary subscription. It's a century old business. Nothing has really changed.
I hate the writers of HoTD. GoT had races feel they belong. Now you got black guys/gals and middle eastern looking people in Westeros, all speaking with Westerosi accents. Seriously, GRRM constructed one of the greatest universes and made every race feel they had a place in the world. HotD made it all pointless.
Yeah, at first it didn't bother me because if the best actor got the role then so be it. However that's clearly not the case and they've only been changed to appeal to racists who cannot enjoy a show that they don't "see themselves" in.
It’s also noticeable that the writers watered down a lot of the story because they favor Rhaenyra’s faction and don’t want her to look too bad. Not to mention the way Alicent keeps turning on her children when her whole character arc was about defending them in the last season. Inconsistency makes it very difficult to invest in the writing.
The story itself is just the problem. Its all bout creating more problems that shouldn't been there necessarily and I do not like that. It already happened from the beginning.
Making alicent so important in S1 was a mistake, at least without having aemond feed her to his dragon or something in S2. There's just nothing for her to do, and as a member of team patriarchy, she can't have influence now that her team got power. Her being eaten by a dragon after criticising some castle being burned would have both made a great scene to characterize somebody who will have influence, and stop the writers from having to give her screen time
Inconsistent? Wouldn't say that. It's clear her oldest sons are beyond saving atp. Aegon is seriously injured. It's in the best interest of Helena and her youngest son to now try to end the war given team black now has a sizable advantage
@@-_YouMayFind_- she’s never worked on a project a day in her life she strong armed her way into being an extra and if her husband is anything to go by I wouldn’t let her within a country mile of pen and paper
I didn’t, that’s why I wasn’t disappointed. From how the show was going. Every big episode is followed by a weak one. Eg episode 2 was amazing then came episode 3. Episode 4 was great then came episode 5. Then came episode 7 then episode 8. but episode 1 to 2 was back to back great
@@jeannie8173 well this shows 1st season was better than the last 2 seasons of GOT (& slightly better than HOTD 2nd season) I'm still a fan of the universe & still willing to stick with the franchise just hoping the writers for HOTD do better next time! This 2nd season finale was extremely lack luster
To be honest we had a good dragon fight...and im even more hyped for more to come...I suggest to be patient...because the show hasn't stopped with the second season...
@@GiveonKing I don't remember them that accurately. I really liked young Rhaenyra episodes. Then EVERYTHING changed for the worse, even the color pallette and it seems the camera work as well, the shot composition was different. And all of the characters became depressed and vile to different degrees.
@@LegsON the color palette change was very noticeable, felt like a completely different show. Because they filmed the grown up scenes first THEN filmed the younger scenes, if not for the actors looking similar and some actors showing up in both the first half and second half. You would think it’s a different show. The crew isn’t working together and it shows but the show is still overall enjoyable and good but there needs to be co-operation and team work.
i do agree where she takes the story and what she thematically seems to hone in on are garbage but i do believe she did write the second episode of season two which was one of everyone’s favorite episodes this season. i could be wrong tho. but i agree she needs to go she’s too woke to be adapting this dark and tragic story
@@oxxce the first red flags began to show when she wrote Rhaenys bursting through the dragon pit then giving a woke explanation why she did that & didn’t burn Alicent
I found that there were a lot of "snooze fest" portions in all the 8 episodes in season 2. If this continues in season 3, I doubt the audience will stick around.
I put the blame more on the writing decisions than HBO/WBD cutting episodes. An announcement is when the public finds out, not when execs and creatives find out. The writing decisions for Alicent, Daemon, Rhaenyra and even Rhaenys did more harm than cutting the episode count. These characters were inconsistent and making unwise decisions.
becoz the whole story is simping teamqueenblack its all meant so they can shoehorn queen into the promised role this is why teamgreen is falling apart and every character fail and make mistake after mistake, mistakes that they wouldnt make had they been true to there character. thats why it feels so odd and feels so out of touch.
This whole argument is bull , they needed better dialogues and better character traits to sell us house of dragon . It wasn’t that there wasn’t a battle to finish the season . It’s just that most of us had a hard time connecting with the characters .
It would be the nail on the coffin fo this IP. I’m frankly so disenchanted about tv adaptations of westeros universe after this season, i think id stick to the books
@A7XKoRnRocks1 That falls on David. She didn't write the entire two seasons, so you can't blame one writer for what happened. In fact, the writers were anticipating 10 episodes and had written the season for that number. HBO stepped in and cut it 8.
I agree that this season had a lot of issues, and it's starting to go downhill, not living up to the hype, pacing issues, bungled plot lines etc. People in the comments saying this channel is making a false narrative are just gaslighting🤷♂️ Literally everyone is saying this season was disappointing.
@@KingSlayer_. I’ve heard more people who wanted a complete season, not that what we got was trash. Just put the in its own box, it was its own adventure and experience. The show will never be that.
The problem with this season is all on HBO cutting it down to 8 episodes when it was already written for 10 and in filming. If this was the real HBO that Thrones had- these creators could have told the story they wanted to tell the right way. They are a great team and I hope "HBO" will sort themselves out so the show can shine.
Why couldn’t they have episode 9-10 and ended the season with the Battle of the Gullet? Considering how many battles and fights there is in the Dance of Dragons.
2:39 you’d think HBO would bet the house on the game of thrones franchise that’s basically the only good show left on HBO. House of the dragon should have a unlimited budget since it’s basically the only reason people have HBO max in the first place they don’t have any other big shows right now
I don't care how short the season is or how many battles it has. I hate the fact that they completely changed the narrative from the book. It was meant for how ambition hate and choosing sides divided and caused the downfall of the most powerful family. Instead they made it about misunderstanding, GOT references, and forcing their own agenda and messages. They completely ruined Rhaenyra and Alicent characters . It was awful season
Rhaenyra and Halaena are the biggest improvements from the book. Not loving Jace, and I’m frustrated by Daemon (although he ended season strong). No Nettles and not enough Baela is disappointing.
That is still what the show is about! 😅 Just because rhaenyra and Alicent sat down and talked it out doesn't change the ambition Alicent and Otto had to take the throne.. 😂 2 things can be true at once.
@@Kalenderz35 how is she sexist? And how is her writing one sided? Did you watch episode 2? She wrote for shows like Deadwood. You can talk about themes like patriarchy without being sexist. Is GRRM sexist? Please explain. I’m not trolling you either. I want to understand this complaint because it blows my mind and haven’t heard any facts to back it up.
@@fy4b230 Can you explain to me why ninety percent of the people watching this series are black fans and only ten percent are green fans. I'm just curious.
i think people are ignoring the real issue, who cares about it being anti climactic because of "no action", it's actually bad because it's littered with bad writing that i feel nobody is going to really talk about till it's too late, like the general public only realizing the problems with season 7 of GoT only after sitting through season 8
I know right??? Everybody keeps saying "oh these people with short attention span that only want dragon battles and action". Uhm no, It's the awful writing/storytelling, brain dead dialogues, nonsensical plot lines, and character assassinations. I rewatched GOT season 1 last week and god damn, I could watch them just talking the whole day. HOTD season 2's atmosphere just felt really off from the beginning.
Got any examples? Because I actually think every episode this season had AT LEAST solid writing, and several had great writing (including the Rooks Rest ep and the finale). HoTD is just being criticized because people don’t want to wait til 2026 to see another big battle.
@@davidwindell i'll go easy and not touch Allicent being ruined and Daemon's development being traded for prophecy. Can you tell me how it made any sense that the river lords and river men didn't bow to Rhaenyra till Daemon kneedled first or why he even says "they are sworn to me" ? Good luck
People has to know it is not the lack of action that is the problem, it’s the way they write and put stuff out of context or they bring stuff that are totally different from the book story like Rheanyra being bi only because the actress is..
I'm not buying the excuses at all. From my research on the Game of Thrones season 8 fiasco, then AT&T/WB begged Benioff and Weiss for more episodes and seasons. HBO/AT&T gave them car blanche. AT&T/HBO knew the show was their flagship. For GoT it was the showrunners that wanted shorter seasons each and every time. Now, fast forward to the present, the showrunners are stating it was an HBO decision to truncate the new show??? I'm not buying it. I believe the idea came from a HoTD official fansite ran by Mr. Garcia. Again, I'm not buying it. The issue here is the filler episodes. I counted 4 filler episodes. The writing team of Condal and Hess is abysmal. In the beginning I thought Condal was the lore guy and Sapochnik was the epic battle guy. I was wrong. Condal is too much of a revisionist. A bad one at that. Bring back Miguel Sapochnik.
Nah, the HBO of then is not the same as now. Condal and Hess are definitely guilty as well but this is totally on brand for current Warner after the Discovery merger and David Zaslav's leadership. They've been doing nothing but cost cutting and removing films and shows for tax write offs.
When you have different leadership (i.e. change in CEO), you get different results. GOT's writing of Season 8 was 7 years ago. The real fault is the US government approving a merger that was all about Discovery channel off-loading their debt, further empowering David Saslov to make these decisions. If you actually watched the news in real time, you'd realize that. The original episode order was for 10. Months later, it was revised to just 8. And Sapochnik quit over his wife not getting a bigger role; he wasn't fired. He was grossly unprofessional.
This just shows even when you do have the books to pull from to write the show they can still fumble the execution by making small changes that mess everything up like George said one little change can cause a butterfly effect later on
No good, witty conversation between any characters, no character building, no great fights, no surprises after watching 2 seasons, I'm not at all interested.
A big issue for me is the lack of character development. We need to be invested in these characters and I am not. Yes, action is great, but there were WOW moments in GOT that had nothing to do with action. When battles are the only thing that's interesting, the show is failing. Make us care about these people. We need to love or hate them, not feel like we could care less. I've read all the books, so changes are not bothering me, but the dialogue is lacking, there is no intrigue, and relationships between characters is weak. HBO may have dropped the ball on financing, but the writers are failing at making us care.
I cried when rhaenys died! And I will when Jace dies and daemon. I'm invested in these characters! Don't know what your trauma is that makes it so you can't connect but you aren't the only one watching the show and if you don't like it you don't have to watch.. 🤷
I agree with the original poster. This series is missing something that Game of thrones had. I’m not really invested in the characters or the story line. At this point I’m just watching for the dragons.
Because of this, season 3 will most likely have the same problem. They'll do Gullet and the Fall at the beginning of season 3, leaving no satisfying climax for the end of season 3 because they can't afford it.
The thing that bugged me was the kiss scene, after mysaria confessed a lifetime of abuse, of course the queer actress suggested a kiss scene after such a backstory
Ruining character arcs like Alicent Otto Daeron and arguable others, yes it was very very similar. I liked s8e3 just like Rooks Rest, but the rest of both shows was just garbage.
They also dropped the ball with Rhaenyra and Alicent being painted as trying to work it out. In the books, they hated each other and their age gap was a lot bigger. Also, they blew it having Daemon running around Harrenhal having visions for 5 episodes. They could have wrapped that up in 1 or 2. I also feel they should have had Nettles and moved Sheepstealer away from the Vale, he was never there. Blood & Cheese, let’s not even go there! They better hit the gates running in 2 years….hopefully us fans won’t give up.
Considering I only subscribed to HBO, for these GOT-HOD series, HBO better reconsider their position to reducing episodes! I’m sure not the only one in this boat.
It was a really disappointing season finale and episode 5 and 6 weren't great but it wasn't "a disaster" lol (GoT Season 8 was a "disaster). Almost everyone will be back for S3 either way.
First season was amazing so many great dramatic and intense scenes. My main problem with this season is they were all separated for way too long long and very little drama
The finale was a let down. Its still far better than season 7 and 8 of GOT. People exaggerate so much. Still a weird move by HBO, its the one show they shouldn't cut back on.
I think the ending should have been the start of the battle of the gullet. Than they can have extra episodes to really show us the battle in the next season giving us a beautiful cliffhanger and something to look forward to.
It's a combination of the new HBO CEO. He isn't learning from past mistakes because he didn't make them. And they need Miguel Sapochnik back. He's a nice counter balance to Ryan Condall and Hess. Also, the cast isn't big enough. And they are mostly centrally located to one another. They are also writing the greens vs. the blacks like heros vs. villains. We should be watching the whole show the way the loot train episode was done. Loving characters on both, or all sides, really. Lastly, the epic nature of the big battles, or wtf moments aren't there. They just don't quite equal Hardhome, Blackwater, Castle Black, Loot Train, Long Night. The stakes aren't high enough.
They're milking the targeryan like they did with wolverine. There are other houses and stories. That's what made got in great, it wasn't just the starks and lannisters
I’ll say this… I can’t in good faith consider Se2 a total failure. 1) Everything looked amazing; the budget could be seen all over it in just about every scene. The only Hollywood feature I’ve seen that looked better was Dune 2, and not by much. 2)The writing and acting made nearly every returning character more interesting (never less interesting), plus they introduced quite a few new characters I look forward to seeing more of. 3) Speaking for myself, I always loved the battles and action scenes from GoT and what we’ve seen so far in HotD, but that’s not really the main thing drawing me in. The bread and butter for me has always been the fleshed out characters, their relationships and the politics between them, the expansive and complex nature of world around them, and finally, the narrative that weaves the overall tapestry. Maybe I’m an outlier, but I haven’t felt bored even once so far in this series. I can’t think of a single scene that felt empty or meaningless. Like everyone, of course I wanted more, but I believe that’s a testament to how amazing it’s been. If people abandon HBO, it will surely only worsen the budget problem we’re now seeing, and the 1.5 year wait we face could easily become 3 years. Be pragmatic with your subscription. I’ll be hanging around for The Penguin and Last of Us 2 in the hope we get more amazing HotD sooner. I’d implore others to do the same.
Glad you guys enjoyed the season. But I doubt there is anything they could have done that you wouldn't have liked. If you can find nothing but positive things to say about a season that most ppl disliked, then you're probably so much of a fan that it's impossible for you to be displeased with this show. The thing is most ppl aren't that diehard, so they're going to have to step it up or depend solely on diehards. And if they're going to do that they might as well increase budget cuts even more since diehards will be happy regardless
@@kgkg4118 Apologies for the wall of text. I see no reason a ‘diehard’ couldn’t point out flaws in the things they love, so I’m fine with that label (especially with the ASoIaF books), but I think the word you’re looking for is ‘fanatic.’ Luckily for all of us, there’s no such thing as sacrosanct fiction. Like humans themselves, nothing created by humans can be above reproach. So it should go without saying there’s no such thing as a perfect show. I could point out little things I’d have adjusted slightly in terms of how the dialogue was directed, like So&So should’ve waited one more second before delivering that line, or perhaps the order of scenes, but doing so would be worthlessly pedantic. Maybe I didn’t get everything I wanted from this season, but I got what I needed. The problems with GoT (and it had many) are not shared so far by HotD. Shorter seasons? Sure, but there are important distinctions. As Talking Thrones wisely pointed out, D&D chose shorter seasons for selfish reasons. The writers and show runners of HotD had no choice if they wanted to give the people something in a more timely manner. People would be bishing about that too if it took more than 2 years just to get +2 episodes. There’s simply no way to please everyone. Seems trite to say but it’s true. I find it silly to throw the baby out with the bath water when something doesn’t fully meet expectations. It’s a mentality I’ve never understood. I stand by my statement about being pragmatic with our subscriptions. Season 3 will be 8 episodes, so we best get used to it. If the quality suffers beyond that because people bailed, those fans will have only themselves (and the cheap HBO execs) to blame.
My complaints are that it felt like Rhane spent several episodes complaining about being able to do nothing and Daemon spent the whole season tweaking out. Not fun to watch 2 main characters do nothing
Becoming a showrunner should have a prerequisite of having to write your own best seller BEFORE you even think about altering the work of someone who has. So many shows are being ruined by hubris, wokeism, and identity politics. The Witcher, Halo, The Rings of Power, the list goes on. Another killer of source material is the original author choosing greed over the integrity of their works. It’s sad.
What do you mean by “wokeism” and “identity politics”? Black and brown people existing and having speaking roles outside of servants and slaves? The existence of people attracted to the same sex? The acknowledgment of the mistreatment and dismissal of women throughout history (which for folks like you who are probably soooo into historical accuracy shouldn’t even be a debate)? And please tell me how any of those things *ruin* the original storytelling/plot of the beloved IP. Or is it just that people who don't look or act like you or how you want them to existing in your eye-line makes you angry? That's a you problem. That's a bigotry problem.
@@GonzoJohnny here’s my argument babe: “wokeism” is a nebulous and meaningless term used by weirdos to villainize non-white, non-straight people instead of critically thinking about media and the reasons media can fail. Media and franchises usually fail or suffer because of corporate greed, not because someone in the main cast is black or gay.
So, Warner CEO David Zaslav received 246 Million USD / year as salary. And He cut 100 Millon USD from the show. Literally, He could pay the 100 Million from his pocket. What about cutting his salary by 100 Million, and giving it to the next season of House of Dragons?
As much as this season fizzled out, I think they might change their minds and put more into season 3 to try and win over fans. If they dont they only have themselves to blame.
@@jofranco238 sadly I don't even think it's optimism anymore, I think a lot of us have become accustomed to setting ourselves up to be disappointed when it comes to entertainment.
Sara hess is just self inserting her own lesbian fanfiction on this show and the only way to stop that is to not watch this badly thought off show. I hate how we can't even speak common sense without being labelled as a sexist or homophobe.
HBO should keep slashing the budget until George RR Martin sits tf down and finishes his books. He will a hundred percent pass away before he finishes the books and he is looking for every excuse not to and then gets mad when questioned about it
He will never write that book. It's been 13 f*cking years since Dance was released. I was 9 years old then, I'm 22 now. That's insane. We haven't seen Rickon in like 20 years or so. Martin simply doesn't care. He seems to feel 0 obligation towards his audience. Sad.
The books simply aren't going to be finished. That ship has sailed. He is 75 years old, in bad health, with 0 interest in finishing them. It will be a surprise at this point if he even finishes the next book, much less the series. For your own sanity, let it go
I was bored with season 2 Every time the story moved to Harrenhal I was rolling my eyes . Emo Daemon.... insufferable... not Matt Smith's fault though.... the writer's
I mean why even make it on the first place if they won’t commit to funding it properly? S2 will have turned so many people away from the show. It felt like a cockblock for anything exciting to happen.
I gave up on the whole franchise when a. The final season of the previous show came out. b. It was clear to me that waiting for Martin to finish the book series is not worth waiting for.
Don’t care about the company’s debt, it’ll be consumed by another company. My big question is why the heck they are giving viewers a 2 year delay? HBO is clowning around.
Sara Hess is too into modern politics to be writing a fantasy show based in Medievel times. There is no such thing as good side in ASOIAF universe but these writers want to show blacks as good guys and greens as cartoonish evil.
agreed. i wanted to see two groups of morally reprehensible characters do whatever it takes to win. but we cant have that in this pc agenda. in this version all the women are good, patient, forgiving, understanding and victims of the evil men. just asinine, silly, characterizations.
It's not budget that made the riverlandsrs switch from hating daemon in one episode, and blaming him for killing their families and burning their homes and such in one episode, to following him with a chance that they might break from their queen to follow him instead.
This is absurd. People in charge need to be replaced. If and HBO produced show based on Game of Thrones cannot get enough budget, what the hell are we doing?! I don't hardly look forward to anything coming out, but HOTD was big for me, and I'm extremely let down.
Don't be a overdramatic twaut. A lot of you twauts will be quiet when Season 3 blows away all these issues. Y'all will look back at S2 and realise how good it was as build up to the real war.
@@aegonbreakspear9102 Nothing overdramatic about it. They ruined Rhaenyra, Daemon, Alicent, Jace, Aemond, and many more. You cannot undo the damage without retcons, which would further damage the show. The storylines are utterly fcked. Maybe you dont have the source material to compare it to but its unfixable plot-wise. The effects and costumes will probably still be good, but if I dont care about what im looking at...
The excuse for us waiting 2 years for season 2 was the writer's strike! Why is it taking another 2 years for the next??? Obviously there is much more CGI required for all of the additional dragon scenes, but c'mon, there are plenty of people capable of doing the necessary work. 🤬
I cancelled HBO after they just randomly canceled Deadwood years ago that really pissed me off !! I got it back a year or so before Game of thrones started and I cancelled once again after they screwed the last couple seasons up so royally I got it back for house of the dragon because I thought that they would've learned their lesson but I guess not I honestly thought the fact that they at least made Deadwood movie to finally finish the story " somewhat " was a signal that maybe they would quit letting fans of series down like that because people do get invested in shows you put a lot of your personal time into these and to be consistently let down absolutely sucks maybe it's time to boycott HBO and all their sister companies losing hundreds of millions of dollars might change their ways!! ☹😠😠😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🖕🏻💀
I think people need to appreciate what Benioff and Weiss were doing during the prime seasons of GoT. They were running at least three separate units, disparate storylines, tons of cast, producing multiple banger seasons each with at least half the episodes being awesome and almost no bad or weak episodes. That's a pretty damn impressive feat. Because it isn't just having George there, it's the whole production aspect of the series, having to put it all together, and that's nothing that's dictated in the writing per se, although the writing was awesome during those seasons. Condal is doing a decent job, but it just feels like he and his team are clearly the B to C team.
Someone send HBO to Harrenhal for them to see hallucinations of what will happen if they cut budgets again
They should cut the pay for the actors. They should swallow it and be happy with the publicity it gives their careers. Some of them are household names now
@@KingSlayer_.The actors work with what they’re given, so cutting their pay will do what? If it’s the writing that’s the problem, then that should be dealt with, not the onscreen talent.
@@KingSlayer_. Always cut the pay of workers. Never the CEO, who makes $50M a year at a company worth $18,000,000,000, but the actors. Trash
@@KingSlayer_.what an absolutely smoothbrained take. the executives make decisions that hurt the final product and you call for the actors to take pay cuts.
@@KingSlayer_.Depending on where you live, some were already household names. Matt Smith? Rhys Ifans? Paddy Considine, just b4 HotD.
Whoever decided to drop from 10 to 8 should be fired. They left the season at a pathetic cliffhanger which probably pissed off all the viewers
@@tysonas1 LOL the one who made that decision is also the one who has the authority to fire everyone.
@@kuong3467
That’s the problem with executives, they never think about the quality of the product these days. While their grandfathers and great grandfathers who were corporate executives did factor in quality.
It wasn't intended to end at Episode 8. Now I know why it felt "off" - the plan was to complete the season with 9 and 10...
NOTHING MUCH HAPPENED the entire season. My god this is nothing like GOT..
GOT was 8 seasons long. Hotd is only on season 2. People want everything now now now!
Hotd CGI bill alone must be freaking massive because most of it looked truly amazing! Probably cost 10x per episode more then GOT did per episode
They should give us 12 episodes in season 3 to make up for this crap.
But they wont
Yea like outlander promised 16 episodes and what did they do was give us 8 last year and the rest in November 2024!
I hope the show gets canceled. It’s really really really bad
nah, nothing makes up for the blue ball ending of season 2.
Oh yes good idea
I remember when some tv shows had like 20 episodes per season, every year.... Then 16, then 13, then 2 years between seasons, then 10, now 8, sometimes 4 split into 2 mini seasons. Fkn BS.
10-12 is perfect for most shows. when shows had 23 episode seasons the only episodes that mattered were the first episode mid season finales and premiers and the last episode. the rest were filler episodes with a hint at plot progression every now and then.
@@stormblessedkiwi8049true, plus we need to consider shows like got are way to expensive to make, but not less than 10 episodes should be canon
These 24 episode shows were mostly teenage drama bullshit
It seems like most streaming platforms are going down to 8 episodes which always feels incomplete. 10-12 is good.
@@SoLazy100and they didn’t have to build massive medieval sets, custom costumes for every actor, and making cgi dragons interact with actors is hard.
That new CEO is killing HBO for real.
That part
Absolutely true. It's tragic really.
He has been doing a great job decreasing expenses which was something he was expected to do. We might not like the outcome, but gotta respect a good businessman.
@@Elfangel85I don’t have to respect it at all actually
@@ragnakakit's ok, you don't know how to run a business anyway
Dear writers, stick to the f*cking books.
@@wadeh7254 what “book”? How would you honestly want them to stick to the book? Season 1 was 2 chapters. Season 2 was again, 2 chapters.
Let’s take season 2. Alicent, Daemon and Rhae do absolutely nothing in those 2 chapters. Alicent is a mustache twirling villain and Rhae and Daemon are non existent.
You can say “I would’ve like them to portray blood and cheese the same” but to think this show hasn’t surpassed the book (Vicerys and the majority of characters) in character arcs or other than that one event they haven’t expanded far beyond the “history” book is asinie…I find it hard to believe you actually read the book. Rooks Rest was leagues above what was portrayed in the book as well.
Only other criticisms I can find book vs show is maybe no Nettles (which is kinda a big deal for me) and bringing the white walker prophecy into the show (not a big deal, but unnecessary).
Easy question although you’ll probably google it, what chapters in F and B do they cover in the first season?
@@wadeh7254 they kinda did, there were no major plot changes in S2 that would change the direction of the story.
The entire story's 250 pages. 😅
no, we have better ideas and want our actors to do what ever they want. how dare you not like us making up whatever we want.
@@van.deaux.1694 nice reply. Again, please tell me what you think they did that was not the “book” that meant anything.
Corporations destroying their massively popular IPs? I've seen this somewhere before...
Groundhog's day..
Don't forget George or Martin has said he has a lot and he means a lot of input about All of the spin-offs, so be mad at him.
@@curtdecker694 He has some input but he doesn't have the final say at all so can't be mad at him.
I believe it's a company that was run by leftist / activist
I haaaaate disney 👎👎
Honestly they could've worked with 8 episodes. It's not even the lack of action and dragon battles that got me turned off this season, It's the awful writing, brain dead storytelling and character assassinations. I rewatched season 1 of GOT last week and god damn I could watch them just talking all day. There was tension and conflict. HOTD, season 2 specifically is just filled with nonsensical plot lines that veered too far from the source material. They're literally making the same mistake as D&D.
I couldn’t have said this any better myself! I’m with you…LOVED the conversations in GOT. HOTD on the other hand is garbage 😢
I rewatched GOT S8 this week and even that last season was way better than the quality of the acting and storyline in HOTD.
EXACTLY!! The writing just isn't there, I try mentioning this and I get bombarded by fans saying "you just want action and can't appreciate the show" No bro, GOT season 1 barely had any action and it is one of the best seasons in television history because the writing was phenomenal
They literally have people writing that didn’t even read the book.
correct. HoD is trash, except for the costumes, the music and the cgi.
Sara Hess. Fire her. Bring back Miguel Sapochnik.
he walked out simply because hbo didn't want to make his wife a producer. Now i get hbos pov but this guy was attached to some of GoT's great episodes and early house of the dragon. To let him walk is crazy
He's a director not a writer.
The best!!
Nah, she's fine. Her effect on the quality of the show "going down hill" has been exaggerated.
They need Miguel back though. And no more budget cuts.
He isn't a director. And stop blaming women for all your problems
How do you make people lose interest in one of the most exciting genres of all time? Give the characters nothing to do. Keep promising that next episode will be the one. Then nothing. Just keep waiting. Then nothing. Well the season finale will surely be action packed. Nope. If they don't step up their game in the coming seasons, it might not only spell doom for this show, but for future shows.
I'm hoping that doesn't happen. They got a lot of praise after the first season. Let's see how they respond to this season's criticism.
So short sighted. Why would I pay $17 a month for 2 years, waiting for HOD 3.....? I FULLY expected a DANCE OF THE DRAGONS and BATTLE. Cancelled immediately after Episode 8. GOT screwed up their finale and ffs there was even a WATER BOTTLE and STARBUCKS cups in 2 separate scenes. Nah, I'm done being jacked around with executives who buys $50 million homes and expect $50 bonuses in addition to their $100 million salary. THAT is awfully convenient. DONE.
David Zaslav's salary is higher than HOTD's budget.
@@TalkingThrones I wish dragons existed just so David could be fed to one.
You literally got a dragon battle this season wtf are you talking about💀
I mean if you’re using HBO solely for Hotd cancel the membership until s3 comes out
@@voiceofreason8398 🤣🤣
Corporate greed wins every time.
it's not greed not wanting to lose your shirt. Warner is not doung well right now.
exactly. If no one is watching shows get cut. that's not greed but basic capitalism. As we are talking about art that is how art always was.
Art was never made just to do it. It was always made for payment. Centuries ago until recently it was basically the subscriptions of Kings or Lords artist were interested in.
And for centuries artists adjust their art to what gets them the necessary subscription.
It's a century old business. Nothing has really changed.
Next thing you know, they'll have us paying yearly subscriptions to get 8 episodes every two years.
Oh, wait...
Lord God, don't give them any ideas.
Just cancel it after my g
Fire stick is the way to go
It will last until S4. No more seasons after S4.
Disney needs to buy hbo
I hate the writers of HoTD. GoT had races feel they belong. Now you got black guys/gals and middle eastern looking people in Westeros, all speaking with Westerosi accents.
Seriously, GRRM constructed one of the greatest universes and made every race feel they had a place in the world. HotD made it all pointless.
Yeah, at first it didn't bother me because if the best actor got the role then so be it. However that's clearly not the case and they've only been changed to appeal to racists who cannot enjoy a show that they don't "see themselves" in.
Get rid of Sara Hess she is a bad writer
All those chickss are ..
Yes!
And Condal
Ryan Condal too
Fire Hess
It’s also noticeable that the writers watered down a lot of the story because they favor Rhaenyra’s faction and don’t want her to look too bad. Not to mention the way Alicent keeps turning on her children when her whole character arc was about defending them in the last season. Inconsistency makes it very difficult to invest in the writing.
The story itself is just the problem. Its all bout creating more problems that shouldn't been there necessarily and I do not like that. It already happened from the beginning.
Making alicent so important in S1 was a mistake, at least without having aemond feed her to his dragon or something in S2.
There's just nothing for her to do, and as a member of team patriarchy, she can't have influence now that her team got power.
Her being eaten by a dragon after criticising some castle being burned would have both made a great scene to characterize somebody who will have influence, and stop the writers from having to give her screen time
Inconsistent? Wouldn't say that. It's clear her oldest sons are beyond saving atp. Aegon is seriously injured. It's in the best interest of Helena and her youngest son to now try to end the war given team black now has a sizable advantage
Uh my guy did you watch season one she literally says you are no son of mine to Aegon because he's molesting his staff
@@biancan801So she smart to betray half of her family to spare the other half? You're either not a parent or I hope you only have 1 kid.
The season finale watched like the 8th episode of a 10 episode season.. Oh yea cause it was lol
The lost Miguel Sapochnik. That is the glaring difference.
His presence made a major difference
He wanted his talentless wife to be a producer. Nah
@@rocco24554 And you know somehow that she doesn't have talent?. I guess he knows way better then you
@@-_YouMayFind_- she’s never worked on a project a day in her life she strong armed her way into being an extra and if her husband is anything to go by I wouldn’t let her within a country mile of pen and paper
That season finale of HOTD season 2 was shockingly lackluster as a major fan I expected SOO much more!
I didn’t, that’s why I wasn’t disappointed. From how the show was going. Every big episode is followed by a weak one. Eg episode 2 was amazing then came episode 3. Episode 4 was great then came episode 5. Then came episode 7 then episode 8. but episode 1 to 2 was back to back great
After GOT final 2 seasons you expected more?! Not me... They completely screwed GOT and now they are doing the same for HOTD.
@@jeannie8173 well this shows 1st season was better than the last 2 seasons of GOT (& slightly better than HOTD 2nd season) I'm still a fan of the universe & still willing to stick with the franchise just hoping the writers for HOTD do better next time! This 2nd season finale was extremely lack luster
As has been pointed out, it was planned to have two major events following it.
To be honest we had a good dragon fight...and im even more hyped for more to come...I suggest to be patient...because the show hasn't stopped with the second season...
Cut the CEO's, COO's, and all the other C's salary and reduce their bonuses, that alone will fund 10-12 episodes per season for four more seasons.
YES!
From the start of Season 2, I could tell the writers were being handcuffed. HBO wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Budget
I'd say only first 5 episodes of season 1 were GREAT.
Then the rule is each 5 episodes are worse than the previous 5.
@@LegsONfirst 4. Then episode 7.(I also liked 6). but 5 is the worst. Followed by 3 then 8
@@GiveonKing I don't remember them that accurately.
I really liked young Rhaenyra episodes.
Then EVERYTHING changed for the worse, even the color pallette and it seems the camera work as well, the shot composition was different.
And all of the characters became depressed and vile to different degrees.
@@LegsON the color palette change was very noticeable, felt like a completely different show. Because they filmed the grown up scenes first THEN filmed the younger scenes, if not for the actors looking similar and some actors showing up in both the first half and second half. You would think it’s a different show. The crew isn’t working together and it shows but the show is still overall enjoyable and good but there needs to be co-operation and team work.
People asking for 10 episodes are ignoring how bad the 8 we got were
From what I’m hearing Sarah Hess needs to go, she writes garbage whenever she directs or writes an episode.
Which episodes she wrote ?
i do agree where she takes the story and what she thematically seems to hone in on are garbage but i do believe she did write the second episode of season two which was one of everyone’s favorite episodes this season. i could be wrong tho. but i agree she needs to go she’s too woke to be adapting this dark and tragic story
@@M7md_n29er most of it lol idk what he's on about
@@oxxce the first red flags began to show when she wrote Rhaenys bursting through the dragon pit then giving a woke explanation why she did that & didn’t burn Alicent
@@oxxce Enough with the woke crap.
I found that there were a lot of "snooze fest" portions in all the 8 episodes in season 2. If this continues in season 3, I doubt the audience will stick around.
This. The only good part was the last 20 minutes of episode 4.
Ayo who else fell asleep every time harranhall poped up 😂
They also need to bring back Miguel Sapochnik.
Yea I'm thinking this must not have been a coincidence that after he left, everything went south.
He won’t be coming back, he left after they wouldn’t let his wife be an executive producer.
He is still an executive producer. But yes, we need him back as a director.
I put the blame more on the writing decisions than HBO/WBD cutting episodes. An announcement is when the public finds out, not when execs and creatives find out.
The writing decisions for Alicent, Daemon, Rhaenyra and even Rhaenys did more harm than cutting the episode count. These characters were inconsistent and making unwise decisions.
becoz the whole story is simping teamqueenblack
its all meant so they can shoehorn queen into the promised role
this is why teamgreen is falling apart and every character fail and make mistake after mistake, mistakes that they wouldnt make had they been true to there character.
thats why it feels so odd and feels so out of touch.
It doesn't make sense to buy the rights for a novel to adapt just to completely disregard the source material. Season 3 has to be a hit!.
This whole argument is bull , they needed better dialogues and better character traits to sell us house of dragon . It wasn’t that there wasn’t a battle to finish the season . It’s just that most of us had a hard time connecting with the characters .
agreed, i dont really care about any of these characters
There was practically no battle at all, let alone as a season finale... Any time there could be action it got skipped and "happened off screen".
If they (HBO) mess this up, no one will trust them with another show again. Not anything related to The Song of Ice and Fire. 😔
It would be the nail on the coffin fo this IP. I’m frankly so disenchanted about tv adaptations of westeros universe after this season, i think id stick to the books
David needs to be fed to Sunfyre
Sara Hess too!
@A7XKoRnRocks1 She can stay she wrote some of the better episodes like episode 2 this season
@@shinrugal One episode doesn’t excuse the entire season.
@A7XKoRnRocks1 That falls on David. She didn't write the entire two seasons, so you can't blame one writer for what happened. In fact, the writers were anticipating 10 episodes and had written the season for that number. HBO stepped in and cut it 8.
I like this idea
I agree that this season had a lot of issues, and it's starting to go downhill, not living up to the hype, pacing issues, bungled plot lines etc. People in the comments saying this channel is making a false narrative are just gaslighting🤷♂️
Literally everyone is saying this season was disappointing.
Literally not everyone
literally?
@@LaCheeserieFigure of speech🙄😂
@@KingSlayer_. I’ve heard more people who wanted a complete season, not that what we got was trash. Just put the in its own box, it was its own adventure and experience. The show will never be that.
excellent beginning
Call the Godzilla Minus One crew for some budget and writing help.
The problem with this season is all on HBO cutting it down to 8 episodes when it was already written for 10 and in filming. If this was the real HBO that Thrones had- these creators could have told the story they wanted to tell the right way. They are a great team and I hope "HBO" will sort themselves out so the show can shine.
Why couldn’t they have episode 9-10 and ended the season with the Battle of the Gullet? Considering how many battles and fights there is in the Dance of Dragons.
The biggest problem is none of that. The biggest problem is that GRRM didn't sell the rights to Netflix instead.
I doubt they will.
This show either sets itself straight in season 3 or falls apart like Game of Thrones did.
The latter is likelier.
@@aslemartinsen5284 lmao it would be wayyyy worse at Netflix
@@aslemartinsen5284 Netflix would cancel after 1 season
2:39 you’d think HBO would bet the house on the game of thrones franchise that’s basically the only good show left on HBO. House of the dragon should have a unlimited budget since it’s basically the only reason people have HBO max in the first place they don’t have any other big shows right now
I don't care how short the season is or how many battles it has. I hate the fact that they completely changed the narrative from the book. It was meant for how ambition hate and choosing sides divided and caused the downfall of the most powerful family. Instead they made it about misunderstanding, GOT references, and forcing their own agenda and messages. They completely ruined Rhaenyra and Alicent characters . It was awful season
Rhaenyra and Halaena are the biggest improvements from the book. Not loving Jace, and I’m frustrated by Daemon (although he ended season strong). No Nettles and not enough Baela is disappointing.
That is still what the show is about! 😅 Just because rhaenyra and Alicent sat down and talked it out doesn't change the ambition Alicent and Otto had to take the throne.. 😂 2 things can be true at once.
@@h33-q8wWhere is that ambition?
We literally see Alicent trying to run away, like a racoon iluminated by torchlights last episode.
Exactly, Alicent is the worst written character ever. And Rhae sucks, oh no, I gotta kill your son you know. Fanfic.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δher ambition to run away and take her daughter drove her to pretty much agreeing to kill her own son. That’s pretty ambitious
They NEED to get rid of Sara Hess. She’s awful.
She wrote arguably the best episode of the season and only wrote 2 episodes.
Why should they get rid of her?
@@fy4b230new target of the incels
@@fy4b230She's sexist, and her writing is one-sided.
@@Kalenderz35 how is she sexist? And how is her writing one sided?
Did you watch episode 2? She wrote for shows like Deadwood. You can talk about themes like patriarchy without being sexist. Is GRRM sexist?
Please explain. I’m not trolling you either. I want to understand this complaint because it blows my mind and haven’t heard any facts to back it up.
@@fy4b230 Can you explain to me why ninety percent of the people watching this series are black fans and only ten percent are green fans. I'm just curious.
i think people are ignoring the real issue, who cares about it being anti climactic because of "no action", it's actually bad because it's littered with bad writing that i feel nobody is going to really talk about till it's too late, like the general public only realizing the problems with season 7 of GoT only after sitting through season 8
I know right??? Everybody keeps saying "oh these people with short attention span that only want dragon battles and action". Uhm no, It's the awful writing/storytelling, brain dead dialogues, nonsensical plot lines, and character assassinations. I rewatched GOT season 1 last week and god damn, I could watch them just talking the whole day. HOTD season 2's atmosphere just felt really off from the beginning.
Got any examples? Because I actually think every episode this season had AT LEAST solid writing, and several had great writing (including the Rooks Rest ep and the finale). HoTD is just being criticized because people don’t want to wait til 2026 to see another big battle.
@@davidwindell i'll go easy and not touch Allicent being ruined and Daemon's development being traded for prophecy. Can you tell me how it made any sense that the river lords and river men didn't bow to Rhaenyra till Daemon kneedled first or why he even says "they are sworn to me" ? Good luck
I could live without the action. daemon’s nonsense and Lannister side stupidities were totally unnecessary
@@jdh5224 lacks the expansive feel that GoT had, feels too limited in scope with many uninteresting/bland characters.
Good. I'm glad it wasn't just me feeling the end of Season 2 was utterly underwhelming.
People has to know it is not the lack of action that is the problem, it’s the way they write and put stuff out of context or they bring stuff that are totally different from the book story like Rheanyra being bi only because the actress is..
Disgusting.
Why was there random footage of that Florida sheriff lol🤣🤣
0:48
😂
Yeah what was with that? Did Sheriff Grady arrest the showrunners? 😂
@@fortythreenorth2518 🤣🤣🤣
@@fortythreenorth2518one can only wish.
I'm not buying the excuses at all. From my research on the Game of Thrones season 8 fiasco, then AT&T/WB begged Benioff and Weiss for more episodes and seasons. HBO/AT&T gave them car blanche. AT&T/HBO knew the show was their flagship. For GoT it was the showrunners that wanted shorter seasons each and every time. Now, fast forward to the present, the showrunners are stating it was an HBO decision to truncate the new show??? I'm not buying it. I believe the idea came from a HoTD official fansite ran by Mr. Garcia. Again, I'm not buying it. The issue here is the filler episodes. I counted 4 filler episodes. The writing team of Condal and Hess is abysmal. In the beginning I thought Condal was the lore guy and Sapochnik was the epic battle guy. I was wrong. Condal is too much of a revisionist. A bad one at that. Bring back Miguel Sapochnik.
No doubt they need Sapochnik back. He left and a lot of Season 2 was unwatchable.
Nah, the HBO of then is not the same as now. Condal and Hess are definitely guilty as well but this is totally on brand for current Warner after the Discovery merger and David Zaslav's leadership. They've been doing nothing but cost cutting and removing films and shows for tax write offs.
When you have different leadership (i.e. change in CEO), you get different results. GOT's writing of Season 8 was 7 years ago. The real fault is the US government approving a merger that was all about Discovery channel off-loading their debt, further empowering David Saslov to make these decisions. If you actually watched the news in real time, you'd realize that. The original episode order was for 10. Months later, it was revised to just 8. And Sapochnik quit over his wife not getting a bigger role; he wasn't fired. He was grossly unprofessional.
When I saw the kiss scene, I knew it was going downhill from there
This has nothing to do with the kiss...
@@blob3853 Why did they put in then? It was uncalled for, it only pushes unnecessary agenda, which shows me weak writing
Yep. We have to have diversity, though. 🙄
@@blob3853wrong
@@ryansmurda1552 weirdo
The awful mud sequence 😂
This just shows even when you do have the books to pull from to write the show they can still fumble the execution by making small changes that mess everything up like George said one little change can cause a butterfly effect later on
Sara and Ryan can go tbh. The writing was not good
No good, witty conversation between any characters, no character building, no great fights, no surprises after watching 2 seasons, I'm not at all interested.
There was at least one witty conversation. Jace+baella was really well done both for emotional core and witty one liners
A big issue for me is the lack of character development. We need to be invested in these characters and I am not. Yes, action is great, but there were WOW moments in GOT that had nothing to do with action. When battles are the only thing that's interesting, the show is failing. Make us care about these people. We need to love or hate them, not feel like we could care less. I've read all the books, so changes are not bothering me, but the dialogue is lacking, there is no intrigue, and relationships between characters is weak. HBO may have dropped the ball on financing, but the writers are failing at making us care.
I cried when rhaenys died! And I will when Jace dies and daemon. I'm invested in these characters! Don't know what your trauma is that makes it so you can't connect but you aren't the only one watching the show and if you don't like it you don't have to watch.. 🤷
Jace has been annoying since Luke died. They have to do something to make us care about him before he dies@@h33-q8w
I agree with the original poster. This series is missing something that Game of thrones had. I’m not really invested in the characters or the story line. At this point I’m just watching for the dragons.
Cole and deamon had good character development
The actors and writing can't compare to GOT. I could care less about the characters.
I don't even care about 8 episodes. They ruined Alicent, the worst written character ever.
Rhaeneyra is just as bad though.
@@ionutcristian9650 Rhae is pretty bad, but she can be improved in season 3, Alicent is unfixable.
@@ionutcristian9650 pls take my son's head that i put on the throne, because i want to be free feminist spirit, lmao, what is this
Because of this, season 3 will most likely have the same problem. They'll do Gullet and the Fall at the beginning of season 3, leaving no satisfying climax for the end of season 3 because they can't afford it.
The God’s Eye would be a good climax for Season 3
No, they have enough time now to plan the season accordingly and write episodes with the right pace to arc everything.
@@iqbalfaizercomedian4066 nice joke, the first two seasons had bad pacing what makes you think the last two will be any better
The thing that bugged me was the kiss scene, after mysaria confessed a lifetime of abuse, of course the queer actress suggested a kiss scene after such a backstory
The House of the Dragon season 2 ending wasn't good, but there's no way you can compare it to season 8 of Game of Thrones.
Ruining character arcs like Alicent Otto Daeron and arguable others, yes it was very very similar. I liked s8e3 just like Rooks Rest, but the rest of both shows was just garbage.
@@brettreason484 Dearon hasn't appeared yet, how can his character arc be ruined? And what is wrong with Otto, because he got fired?
The Alicent and Rhaenyra scene was.
Yes. 8 season of GOT much better than 1 season of HotD. Not speaking of second.
@@brettreason484take your antidepressants
They also dropped the ball with Rhaenyra and Alicent being painted as trying to work it out. In the books, they hated each other and their age gap was a lot bigger. Also, they blew it having Daemon running around Harrenhal having visions for 5 episodes. They could have wrapped that up in 1 or 2. I also feel they should have had Nettles and moved Sheepstealer away from the Vale, he was never there. Blood & Cheese, let’s not even go there! They better hit the gates running in 2 years….hopefully us fans won’t give up.
agree with all of that, although im not that hard on them about the nettles thing. some people will give up. no reason to have faith at this point
The writers are awful.
No.
Considering I only subscribed to HBO, for these GOT-HOD series, HBO better reconsider their position to reducing episodes! I’m sure not the only one in this boat.
It was a really disappointing season finale and episode 5 and 6 weren't great but it wasn't "a disaster" lol (GoT Season 8 was a "disaster). Almost everyone will be back for S3 either way.
The thing is season 1 was great.
So season 2's lack of consistency is more noticeable.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ Yeah no doubt about that but season 2 was a "disappointment" not a disaster.
@@misterhoobomaster It was ' no offence what were you watching?
@@misterhoobomasterIt was a disaster.
Duhhh how I'd this an argument, almost everyone will be back for season 3 obviously cause we live the books and hope to see a change
This is one of the biggest fumbles in tv history
The first season was solid, this season felt pretty disappointing
First season was amazing so many great dramatic and intense scenes. My main problem with this season is they were all separated for way too long long and very little drama
Season 2 was insanely slow, they cut out any and all action scenes. Felt like the whole season was only 3-4 episodes.
The finale was a let down. Its still far better than season 7 and 8 of GOT. People exaggerate so much.
Still a weird move by HBO, its the one show they shouldn't cut back on.
@@devanman7920 not hardly, this is just one big flop and degrading to world Westeros
Not even close.
They messed up at least 4 episodes
The finale should have been the battle of the gullet. It would have rhymed perfectly with vhagar eating luceris at the end of season one
I think the ending should have been the start of the battle of the gullet. Than they can have extra episodes to really show us the battle in the next season giving us a beautiful cliffhanger and something to look forward to.
Should have ended with Jace and his dragon falling in the ocean, THAT is a proper cliffhanger
It's a combination of the new HBO CEO. He isn't learning from past mistakes because he didn't make them. And they need Miguel Sapochnik back. He's a nice counter balance to Ryan Condall and Hess. Also, the cast isn't big enough. And they are mostly centrally located to one another. They are also writing the greens vs. the blacks like heros vs. villains. We should be watching the whole show the way the loot train episode was done. Loving characters on both, or all sides, really. Lastly, the epic nature of the big battles, or wtf moments aren't there. They just don't quite equal Hardhome, Blackwater, Castle Black, Loot Train, Long Night. The stakes aren't high enough.
They're milking the targeryan like they did with wolverine. There are other houses and stories. That's what made got in great, it wasn't just the starks and lannisters
I’ll say this…
I can’t in good faith consider Se2 a total failure.
1) Everything looked amazing; the budget could be seen all over it in just about every scene. The only Hollywood feature I’ve seen that looked better was Dune 2, and not by much.
2)The writing and acting made nearly every returning character more interesting (never less interesting), plus they introduced quite a few new characters I look forward to seeing more of.
3) Speaking for myself, I always loved the battles and action scenes from GoT and what we’ve seen so far in HotD, but that’s not really the main thing drawing me in. The bread and butter for me has always been the fleshed out characters, their relationships and the politics between them, the expansive and complex nature of world around them, and finally, the narrative that weaves the overall tapestry.
Maybe I’m an outlier, but I haven’t felt bored even once so far in this series. I can’t think of a single scene that felt empty or meaningless. Like everyone, of course I wanted more, but I believe that’s a testament to how amazing it’s been. If people abandon HBO, it will surely only worsen the budget problem we’re now seeing, and the 1.5 year wait we face could easily become 3 years. Be pragmatic with your subscription. I’ll be hanging around for The Penguin and Last of Us 2 in the hope we get more amazing HotD sooner. I’d implore others to do the same.
Agreed I liked it because you can see what it’s leading up to. Can’t wait for season 3
Glad you guys enjoyed the season. But I doubt there is anything they could have done that you wouldn't have liked. If you can find nothing but positive things to say about a season that most ppl disliked, then you're probably so much of a fan that it's impossible for you to be displeased with this show. The thing is most ppl aren't that diehard, so they're going to have to step it up or depend solely on diehards. And if they're going to do that they might as well increase budget cuts even more since diehards will be happy regardless
Considering $40MIL were cut from the total budget. They did a good job
@@kgkg4118 Apologies for the wall of text.
I see no reason a ‘diehard’ couldn’t point out flaws in the things they love, so I’m fine with that label (especially with the ASoIaF books), but I think the word you’re looking for is ‘fanatic.’ Luckily for all of us, there’s no such thing as sacrosanct fiction. Like humans themselves, nothing created by humans can be above reproach.
So it should go without saying there’s no such thing as a perfect show. I could point out little things I’d have adjusted slightly in terms of how the dialogue was directed, like So&So should’ve waited one more second before delivering that line, or perhaps the order of scenes, but doing so would be worthlessly pedantic. Maybe I didn’t get everything I wanted from this season, but I got what I needed.
The problems with GoT (and it had many) are not shared so far by HotD. Shorter seasons? Sure, but there are important distinctions. As Talking Thrones wisely pointed out, D&D chose shorter seasons for selfish reasons. The writers and show runners of HotD had no choice if they wanted to give the people something in a more timely manner. People would be bishing about that too if it took more than 2 years just to get +2 episodes.
There’s simply no way to please everyone. Seems trite to say but it’s true. I find it silly to throw the baby out with the bath water when something doesn’t fully meet expectations. It’s a mentality I’ve never understood. I stand by my statement about being pragmatic with our subscriptions. Season 3 will be 8 episodes, so we best get used to it. If the quality suffers beyond that because people bailed, those fans will have only themselves (and the cheap HBO execs) to blame.
My complaints are that it felt like Rhane spent several episodes complaining about being able to do nothing and Daemon spent the whole season tweaking out. Not fun to watch 2 main characters do nothing
Becoming a showrunner should have a prerequisite of having to write your own best seller BEFORE you even think about altering the work of someone who has. So many shows are being ruined by hubris, wokeism, and identity politics. The Witcher, Halo, The Rings of Power, the list goes on. Another killer of source material is the original author choosing greed over the integrity of their works. It’s sad.
I was with you until you said “wokeism” 🙄
@@lmaoashley yet no real argument from you? More wokeism...
Yep they ruined movies and TV series by injecting their Agenda.
What do you mean by “wokeism” and “identity politics”? Black and brown people existing and having speaking roles outside of servants and slaves? The existence of people attracted to the same sex? The acknowledgment of the mistreatment and dismissal of women throughout history (which for folks like you who are probably soooo into historical accuracy shouldn’t even be a debate)? And please tell me how any of those things *ruin* the original storytelling/plot of the beloved IP.
Or is it just that people who don't look or act like you or how you want them to existing in your eye-line makes you angry?
That's a you problem. That's a bigotry problem.
@@GonzoJohnny here’s my argument babe: “wokeism” is a nebulous and meaningless term used by weirdos to villainize non-white, non-straight people instead of critically thinking about media and the reasons media can fail. Media and franchises usually fail or suffer because of corporate greed, not because someone in the main cast is black or gay.
So, Warner CEO David Zaslav received 246 Million USD / year as salary. And He cut 100 Millon USD from the show. Literally, He could pay the 100 Million from his pocket. What about cutting his salary by 100 Million, and giving it to the next season of House of Dragons?
Hahahaha keep dreaming dude
@@kristianpadley5562 he might get zero salary if he gets fired.
He owes us 100 million.
As much as this season fizzled out, I think they might change their minds and put more into season 3 to try and win over fans. If they dont they only have themselves to blame.
I wish I had your optimism 🥲
@@jofranco238 sadly I don't even think it's optimism anymore, I think a lot of us have become accustomed to setting ourselves up to be disappointed when it comes to entertainment.
Sara hess is just self inserting her own lesbian fanfiction on this show and the only way to stop that is to not watch this badly thought off show. I hate how we can't even speak common sense without being labelled as a sexist or homophobe.
HBO should keep slashing the budget until George RR Martin sits tf down and finishes his books. He will a hundred percent pass away before he finishes the books and he is looking for every excuse not to and then gets mad when questioned about it
😢
Let’s not ruin the shows for a book that will never be written.
He will never write that book.
It's been 13 f*cking years since Dance was released. I was 9 years old then, I'm 22 now. That's insane.
We haven't seen Rickon in like 20 years or so.
Martin simply doesn't care. He seems to feel 0 obligation towards his audience. Sad.
You’re really waiting for that man to finish his books? LMAO!!!!
The books simply aren't going to be finished. That ship has sailed. He is 75 years old, in bad health, with 0 interest in finishing them. It will be a surprise at this point if he even finishes the next book, much less the series. For your own sanity, let it go
I was bored with season 2
Every time the story moved to Harrenhal I was rolling my eyes . Emo Daemon.... insufferable... not Matt Smith's fault though.... the writer's
HBO has no problem charging full price when they continue to slash their budget and release less and less original content
I mean why even make it on the first place if they won’t commit to funding it properly? S2 will have turned so many people away from the show. It felt like a cockblock for anything exciting to happen.
Season 2 was awful. I was so disappointed
The last 4 episodes were so bad I had actually forgotten that the season started strong
Man, imagine budget cutting the thing that keeps the ship afloat.
I was very disappointed with the season being short
I gave up on the whole franchise when a. The final season of the previous show came out. b. It was clear to me that waiting for Martin to finish the book series is not worth waiting for.
RR martin should pull out. they aren't doing his work the justice it deserves.
Don’t care about the company’s debt, it’ll be consumed by another company. My big question is why the heck they are giving viewers a 2 year delay? HBO is clowning around.
Feed the Writers to the Dragons....
Sara gotta go! I was so disappointed in this season I skipped episode 7 all together.
But they didn’t follow the books they change everything. 😢
change for the worse too
Hopefully GRRM will stop pandering to the HBO cheques now and finish SOMETHING worthwhile.
Sara Hess is too into modern politics to be writing a fantasy show based in Medievel times. There is no such thing as good side in ASOIAF universe but these writers want to show blacks as good guys and greens as cartoonish evil.
agreed. i wanted to see two groups of morally reprehensible characters do whatever it takes to win. but we cant have that in this pc agenda. in this version all the women are good, patient, forgiving, understanding and victims of the evil men. just asinine, silly, characterizations.
Not surprised. Only 8 episodes this season and about 5 of them had nothing going on
I‘m still waiting for the „Martin cut“ of Season 8 , with extended material from the Archive and reshooted scenes
Put the knight of the seven kingdoms on the back burner and get s3 of hotd out asap
Real talk.....they know most of us will watch NO MATTER WHAT.
I canceled that crap. No more
@Superwoman19692 I did too. I'm really disappointed with HOTD.
@@cjsrescues Wtf is there to be disappointed about??
With GoT, episode 9 was always very significant and action packed so doing the same for HotD would have been perfect...
This should have been the “redemption” and it turns out as another feminist-woke disaster.
Early GOT had amazing dialogue as did HotD season 1. Season 2 can almost be skipped entirely and we'd be at the same point in the story.
I think it wasn't bad. They showed what they could show given their budget.
It's not budget that made the riverlandsrs switch from hating daemon in one episode, and blaming him for killing their families and burning their homes and such in one episode, to following him with a chance that they might break from their queen to follow him instead.
Too much was left out of season 2 and I hated it.
This is absurd. People in charge need to be replaced. If and HBO produced show based on Game of Thrones cannot get enough budget, what the hell are we doing?! I don't hardly look forward to anything coming out, but HOTD was big for me, and I'm extremely let down.
They definitely made a huge error with the 10-8 approach. I guess HBO once again wants to toss away a fortune with this franchise
HBO just ruined this show for all time. HOTD should have gotten all the budget for AKOTSK show that is supposed to be coming out in 2025. Ruined.
Don't be a overdramatic twaut. A lot of you twauts will be quiet when Season 3 blows away all these issues. Y'all will look back at S2 and realise how good it was as build up to the real war.
@@aegonbreakspear9102 and when is Season 3, exactly? I’ll just read the books while you wait.
@@aegonbreakspear9102 Nothing overdramatic about it. They ruined Rhaenyra, Daemon, Alicent, Jace, Aemond, and many more. You cannot undo the damage without retcons, which would further damage the show. The storylines are utterly fcked. Maybe you dont have the source material to compare it to but its unfixable plot-wise. The effects and costumes will probably still be good, but if I dont care about what im looking at...
😂😂😂😂 so dramatic.
@@morewar01That’s funny. Cause I don’t feel like anyone was “ruined”💀
Only the top of the iceberg, budget wasn't the main problem.
The excuse for us waiting 2 years for season 2 was the writer's strike! Why is it taking another 2 years for the next??? Obviously there is much more CGI required for all of the additional dragon scenes, but c'mon, there are plenty of people capable of doing the necessary work. 🤬
they don’t want to pay for the necessary work.
I cancelled HBO after they just randomly canceled Deadwood years ago that really pissed me off !! I got it back a year or so before Game of thrones started and I cancelled once again after they screwed the last couple seasons up so royally I got it back for house of the dragon because I thought that they would've learned their lesson but I guess not I honestly thought the fact that they at least made Deadwood movie to finally finish the story " somewhat " was a signal that maybe they would quit letting fans of series down like that because people do get invested in shows you put a lot of your personal time into these and to be consistently let down absolutely sucks maybe it's time to boycott HBO and all their sister companies losing hundreds of millions of dollars might change their ways!! ☹😠😠😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🖕🏻💀
First thing I did was cancel HBO MAX. Last year after season 1, I kept it for a whole year, out of thanks.
“out of thanks” just say “I’M A CUCK EVERYONE”
I think people need to appreciate what Benioff and Weiss were doing during the prime seasons of GoT. They were running at least three separate units, disparate storylines, tons of cast, producing multiple banger seasons each with at least half the episodes being awesome and almost no bad or weak episodes. That's a pretty damn impressive feat. Because it isn't just having George there, it's the whole production aspect of the series, having to put it all together, and that's nothing that's dictated in the writing per se, although the writing was awesome during those seasons. Condal is doing a decent job, but it just feels like he and his team are clearly the B to C team.