I am very interested in the comment offered on context in relation to Christian Atheism.(so-called). I too had always thought the phrasing throughout this portion of scripture pertained merely to beliefs and theology of historic Christianity. But after decades of thought I would suggest that there is something more to it than that. I respect other thoughts and do not want to be critical of them in any way. And at this time I don't have time to illustrate the reasons for that thinking. Later I would like to come back to this and discuss it further. Thank you very, very much for your observation and response.
When I read this part I always thought it was directed against the mainstream Christian teaching that there are to be no more prophets or scriptures. But this is an interesting application.
Thank you for this insightful comment. Is the prophecy merely about historic Christianity or is it about religionists a step beyond that? For many years I was troubled by the additional progression of theology that made the declaration, "There is no God today." Nor the declaration, "for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work," Nor the declaration, "for he hath given his power unto men." Nor the direct declarations pertaining to "there are no miracles today," nor "eat, drink and be merry," nor the lack of judgements and penalties for the wicked. For years, in fact, I was troubled that those might not be fair descriptions of modern Christian leaders. But the descriptions seem to perfectly fit some of the theology of radical philosopher/theologians. Thanks again for the thought.
I just read these chapters this week and they are one of my favorite parts of the Book of Mormon. (2 Nephi 25-33) It is Nephi's final words to his posterity and also to us.
If you are like me, you end up underlining every line. They are just absolutes after absolutes. It just seems impossible to stop finding deeper and deeper meanings. We don't need any surprise prophecies like the ones I point out here. Thanks for watching.
Again in relation to the comment upon context and the usual interpretation that this particular prophecy pertains to the views of "historic Christianity," might I say that I don't find in Joseph's comments in the account of the first vision or in other references, the argument that generally Christian leaders have become fullfledged atheists, teaching that God literally died, there is no god today, and he has passed his power unto mankind. Yet these are the specific and exact conclusions stated by some radical theologians as foretold by the scripture.
1 Nephi 13:26-27: "And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men."
Thank you, Mr. Conger, for the point that I suggested nothing but negative about atheists. Your point is well taken. Atheists have contributed much to the world and to humanity. I am grateful for all that that they have done to help us all. My comments were intended for those atheists who identify with Christ but deny his stated eternal stature. Many atheists praised Jesus but few blasphemed his name through corrupting his message. I still can think of none in history that created the mythology attributed to radical Christian theologians in modern times. That was my attempted point. Thanks for your thoughts.
"..this church(the church of jesus christ of latter day saint ) and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and..." D&C 1:30.Revelation given by Jesus christ to joseph smith the prophet in ohio on 1st September 1831.
There were deists, agnostics, and atheists in the years 1700-1828. For an easy example check out Thomas Jefferson's remade personal bible (with Jesus' miracles removed). Also check out Thomas Paine's book The Age of Reason which holds the bible as mythology and has a negative view of all organized religion.
Sorry for any confusion caused. The atheists I refer to are Radical Christian theologists who portray God as having existed but who died in Christ. There, of course, have always been atheists. Thanks for the comment.
Despite what I said below that part of the Book of Mormon is talking to YOU! The gentile Church! Your own leaders expect you to deny a Holy Ghost! No? How many people were told by the Holy Ghost not yet the jibbyjabby or the holy ghost told a member to do one thing and the “prophets” will say -no that’s not right because you disagree with us. Jerimiah shores up my argument. “… in the last days you should consider it perfectly…I did not send these prophets yet they prophesied”. I think Isaiah called your prophets sleeping dogs. How many times has Nelson or a past president of the church said I speak for the Lord ? But do they? How many times have policies changed? Brigham said you can’t get to exaltation without polygamy but yet the church now back away from it and Hinckley even said that it is not doctrine! So Neph I was talking to you not some oddball protestant atheist professor sent by Rome!
Dear Dad, I am sure that many members of the Restored Church are descended from gentile or non-Israelite ancestors. I, for one, have a heritage of both gentile and Israelite blood. I am grateful for both and feel that through the blood of Christ all who come unto Him and receive the holy ordinances he has provided become his sons and his daughters and are truly a part of the spiritual house of Israel. I am grateful, too, that both my wife and I followed the Prophet's counsel to receive that "jibbyjabby" you mention and have never, so far, been touched by that plague. Whether we did become ill or not, we are grateful to have had faith in the spokeman of the Lord and been obedient in one small bit of his counsel. We only pray that we will be able to follow the next challenge we are given. Perhaps we won't. There will yet be many tests.
Mormons, NO RESTORATION IS NEEDED. Because Jesus already has established His Church. MATTHEW 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it..." JUDE 3 "While I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints..." Jesus already has established His Church and built it on a rock so the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Also the faith was ONCE and for all already delivered to the saints. No mention of any Mormon restoration in the past, present, or future.
Thank you for the thought. And please know that my heart is filled with gratitude for the declarations of all faithful followers of Christ. The Book of Mormon declares on page that (apparently aside from Latter-day Saints) there are many "followers of Christ" in the latter-days. I understand your distaste for me but I know that I love you and thank God for your faith in His Son and your desire to follow him. God bless you in your path.
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24: 23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..." Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in? A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
Albert, thank you for your thoughts. I am very, very grateful that you also believe in Christ and are motivated to defend him as the Son of the Father and the Savior of mankind. God bless you!
@FingerprintsOnEveryPage Which Jesus do you believe in? A. The Jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. You can't picked both.
Thank you so much for your input. It is so interesting and valuable to hear each other's thoughts and conclusions on a matter like this. How fascinating that some see absolutely no evidence and others are completely filled with proof and evidence and reason to believe and rejoice. Many, many years ago we ranched in an desert area of Eastern Oregon. There was no amusement or entertainment there, no tv, no telephone, no mountains, streams or other rest spots. So what did we do after a long day of work on the ranch? Sometimes we gathered up the multiple family children and went hunting for arrowheads. Most of the families, including myself, never found an arrow head or spearpoint, year after year. But one young girl, named Kelly, would discover arrowheads in the sand each time. The rest of us were almost mad at her and thought she must somehow be cheating. Back at the house we would look in bewilderment at her finds. "It's not fair, she must be cheating, we didn't see anything!" She was always so happy and we were always so sad and maybe a little irritated. It is really an unfair argument, if you think about it. One side says "it isn't true because I don't see any evidence. It makes me mad." And the other side says, "I am sorry but I know it is true because I have the evidence. I've seen, heard, touched and tasted the evidence. Why do you want me deny what I know? Why won't you try to look deeper and more carefully with me for the evidence?" One side is happy as can be and the other is just plain irritated. Those who have proof love it and those who don't have any evidence aren't so happy. It's an empty bucket against a full bucket. Not a fair debate, I admit. I hope my conclusion isn't just more irritations. Thanks for commenting.
@FingerprintsOnEveryPage I'll make it easy for you. There's no proof. See how I did that? And I did it without writing over 200 words saying absolutely nothing!
The biggest problem is we are achogicaly digging up the last 100-150 years of the nephite civilization and in the books own admission they were utterly destroyed so if they were utterly destroyed how would you find proof of there existence if any remains. Also who was it that burned the codesies to translate the ancient civilization text oh right Spanish conquistadors. I think that you should go check out Zion media they have an actual native chief on saying ya the Book of Mormon is true this is what we have taught for generations upon generations. Or ancient answers. Or saints unscripted. The last one I would suggest is you want the least biased source of information.
@@DC99504 he said a lot, he exposed your ignorance of expecting clear records when the Earth becomes more unclear over time and lack of technology back then further validates that notion. I don't need the archeology to prove anything because the evidence is self there. The history and spirit combined makes it known that Christ is king and BOM says that.
The Book of Mormon is true and contains the records of ancient prophets. God directed Nephi and Mormon to craft the entire volume for the latter days, and that's why prophecies such as this one are written down.
Would love to see more videos. Thanks
I love this channel
Well, we love you and hope we aren't too wordy or boring.
I am very interested in the comment offered on context in relation to Christian Atheism.(so-called). I too had always thought the phrasing throughout this portion of scripture pertained merely to beliefs and theology of historic Christianity. But after decades of thought I would suggest that there is something more to it than that. I respect other thoughts and do not want to be critical of them in any way. And at this time I don't have time to illustrate the reasons for that thinking. Later I would like to come back to this and discuss it further. Thank you very, very much for your observation and response.
Wow! Nephi summed it up perfectly!
He answers so many questions we haven't even yet thought to ask!
Nice video...
Thanks for the visit
When I read this part I always thought it was directed against the mainstream Christian teaching that there are to be no more prophets or scriptures. But this is an interesting application.
Thank you for this insightful comment. Is the prophecy merely about historic Christianity or is it about religionists a step beyond that? For many years I was troubled by the additional progression of theology that made the declaration, "There is no God today." Nor the declaration, "for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work," Nor the declaration, "for he hath given his power unto men." Nor the direct declarations pertaining to "there are no miracles today," nor "eat, drink and be merry," nor the lack of judgements and penalties for the wicked. For years, in fact, I was troubled that those might not be fair descriptions of modern Christian leaders. But the descriptions seem to perfectly fit some of the theology of radical philosopher/theologians. Thanks again for the thought.
I just read these chapters this week and they are one of my favorite parts of the Book of Mormon. (2 Nephi 25-33) It is Nephi's final words to his posterity and also to us.
If you are like me, you end up underlining every line. They are just absolutes after absolutes. It just seems impossible to stop finding deeper and deeper meanings. We don't need any surprise prophecies like the ones I point out here. Thanks for watching.
Again in relation to the comment upon context and the usual interpretation that this particular prophecy pertains to the views of "historic Christianity," might I say that I don't find in Joseph's comments in the account of the first vision or in other references, the argument that generally Christian leaders have become fullfledged atheists, teaching that God literally died, there is no god today, and he has passed his power unto mankind. Yet these are the specific and exact conclusions stated by some radical theologians as foretold by the scripture.
Crazy mythical Christian belief of today #1 : God is three Persons who are 1 Being.
#2 God dwells outside space and time.
1 Nephi 13:26-27: "And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men."
@@mikeonthecomputer From the plain and precious truth to superstition and an unknown, unknowable god. Acts 17 :>)
For someone that was an atheist, Bonhoffer shure *_fought hard_* against Hitler .
So did Stalin.
Thank you, Mr. Conger, for the point that I suggested nothing but negative about atheists. Your point is well taken. Atheists have contributed much to the world and to humanity. I am grateful for all that that they have done to help us all. My comments were intended for those atheists who identify with Christ but deny his stated eternal stature. Many atheists praised Jesus but few blasphemed his name through corrupting his message. I still can think of none in history that created the mythology attributed to radical Christian theologians in modern times. That was my attempted point. Thanks for your thoughts.
"..this church(the church of jesus christ of latter day saint ) and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and..." D&C 1:30.Revelation given by Jesus christ to joseph smith the prophet in ohio on 1st September 1831.
An important statement from the Lord.
There were deists, agnostics, and atheists in the years 1700-1828. For an easy example check out Thomas Jefferson's remade personal bible (with Jesus' miracles removed). Also check out Thomas Paine's book The Age of Reason which holds the bible as mythology and has a negative view of all organized religion.
Sorry for any confusion caused. The atheists I refer to are Radical Christian theologists who portray God as having existed but who died in Christ. There, of course, have always been atheists. Thanks for the comment.
Despite what I said below that part of the Book of Mormon is talking to YOU! The gentile Church! Your own leaders expect you to deny a Holy Ghost! No? How many people were told by the Holy Ghost not yet the jibbyjabby or the holy ghost told a member to do one thing and the “prophets” will say -no that’s not right because you disagree with us. Jerimiah shores up my argument. “… in the last days you should consider it perfectly…I did not send these prophets yet they prophesied”. I think Isaiah called your prophets sleeping dogs.
How many times has Nelson or a past president of the church said I speak for the Lord ? But do they? How many times have policies changed? Brigham said you can’t get to exaltation without polygamy but yet the church now back away from it and Hinckley even said that it is not doctrine! So Neph I was talking to you not some oddball protestant atheist professor sent by Rome!
Dear Dad, I am sure that many members of the Restored Church are descended from gentile or non-Israelite ancestors. I, for one, have a heritage of both gentile and Israelite blood. I am grateful for both and feel that through the blood of Christ all who come unto Him and receive the holy ordinances he has provided become his sons and his daughters and are truly a part of the spiritual house of Israel. I am grateful, too, that both my wife and I followed the Prophet's counsel to receive that "jibbyjabby" you mention and have never, so far, been touched by that plague. Whether we did become ill or not, we are grateful to have had faith in the spokeman of the Lord and been obedient in one small bit of his counsel. We only pray that we will be able to follow the next challenge we are given. Perhaps we won't. There will yet be many tests.
God lives! His gospel is true, alive and active in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- Day Saints.😁
I believe that with all my heart. God bless you for your faith.
2nd Coming < 20 years. Not surprised religion shrinking except for LDS; Its Prophecy being fulfilled.
Mormons, NO RESTORATION IS NEEDED.
Because Jesus already has established His Church.
MATTHEW 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it..."
JUDE 3
"While I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints..."
Jesus already has established His Church and built it on a rock so the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Also the faith was ONCE and for all already delivered to the saints.
No mention of any Mormon restoration in the past, present, or future.
Thank you for the thought. And please know that my heart is filled with gratitude for the declarations of all faithful followers of Christ. The Book of Mormon declares on page that (apparently aside from Latter-day Saints) there are many "followers of Christ" in the latter-days. I understand your distaste for me but I know that I love you and thank God for your faith in His Son and your desire to follow him. God bless you in your path.
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24: 23-24
"Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
Albert, thank you for your thoughts. I am very, very grateful that you also believe in Christ and are motivated to defend him as the Son of the Father and the Savior of mankind. God bless you!
@FingerprintsOnEveryPage
Which Jesus do you believe in?
A. The Jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
You can't picked both.
The Book of Mormon has never been proven or validated by any historian or archeologists, not one artifact has been found.
Thank you so much for your input. It is so interesting and valuable to hear each other's thoughts and conclusions on a matter like this. How fascinating that some see absolutely no evidence and others are completely filled with proof and evidence and reason to believe and rejoice. Many, many years ago we ranched in an desert area of Eastern Oregon. There was no amusement or entertainment there, no tv, no telephone, no mountains, streams or other rest spots. So what did we do after a long day of work on the ranch? Sometimes we gathered up the multiple family children and went hunting for arrowheads. Most of the families, including myself, never found an arrow head or spearpoint, year after year. But one young girl, named Kelly, would discover arrowheads in the sand each time. The rest of us were almost mad at her and thought she must somehow be cheating. Back at the house we would look in bewilderment at her finds. "It's not fair, she must be cheating, we didn't see anything!" She was always so happy and we were always so sad and maybe a little irritated.
It is really an unfair argument, if you think about it. One side says "it isn't true because I don't see any evidence. It makes me mad." And the other side says, "I am sorry but I know it is true because I have the evidence. I've seen, heard, touched and tasted the evidence. Why do you want me deny what I know? Why won't you try to look deeper and more carefully with me for the evidence?" One side is happy as can be and the other is just plain irritated. Those who have proof love it and those who don't have any evidence aren't so happy. It's an empty bucket against a full bucket. Not a fair debate, I admit. I hope my conclusion isn't just more irritations. Thanks for commenting.
@FingerprintsOnEveryPage I'll make it easy for you.
There's no proof. See how I did that?
And I did it without writing over 200 words saying absolutely nothing!
The biggest problem is we are achogicaly digging up the last 100-150 years of the nephite civilization and in the books own admission they were utterly destroyed so if they were utterly destroyed how would you find proof of there existence if any remains. Also who was it that burned the codesies to translate the ancient civilization text oh right Spanish conquistadors. I think that you should go check out Zion media they have an actual native chief on saying ya the Book of Mormon is true this is what we have taught for generations upon generations. Or ancient answers. Or saints unscripted. The last one I would suggest is you want the least biased source of information.
@@DC99504 he said a lot, he exposed your ignorance of expecting clear records when the Earth becomes more unclear over time and lack of technology back then further validates that notion. I don't need the archeology to prove anything because the evidence is self there. The history and spirit combined makes it known that Christ is king and BOM says that.
historian and archeologist are simply people creating a micro religion according to capabilities of man.
The Book of Mormon is true and contains the records of ancient prophets. God directed Nephi and Mormon to craft the entire volume for the latter days, and that's why prophecies such as this one are written down.
I would say an amen to that. Thank you.