The way poor Joan casually explains it and even says the guy was a good man. That made my skin crawl. Even Bette is horrified. Too many victims of sexual abuse think what happened to them is ok or normal. It was even worse back then. Almost no support for victims.
I’m a victim and I can relate to that sort of response. It’s not that it’s okay. But after years of being traumatized you just accept it as what happened. It wasn’t right, but you aren’t shackled by the pain anymore and just let it go like it was nothing. I’ve had the same reaction of people being shocked at how nonchalant I talk about the abuse but it’s something only victims can understand. No excuses, but no hard feelings either. you just grow up and move on.
Yes, it was definitely abuse, no doubt about it, but unlike Christina, who suffered the open contempt and brutal physical beatings from her mother, Joan at least had the DELUSION of being loved by her stepfather. Not condoning his sexual predation, but Christina still suffered far more.
@@taymur0804 I believe their point was that survivors learn to adapt to/cope with it, they are not being ''brave'' intentionally... Also, we shouldn't frame as surviving/experiencing abuse as ''brave''.
The hell these two women endured in their lifetime. Both very strong survivors. Joan's story of her stepfather's abuse. The way she casually spoke about it. She was able to overcome the trauma and move on. The strength in that. But then again, women didn't have much choice but to fight twice as hard.
Sad scene.....You can see Bette's shock at Joan being raped at 11 by her stepfather. I love how Bette always calls Joan by her real name "Lucille". Sarandon and Lange did a very impressive job in this series.
@Shane Brown Rape? You must have missed the part where she said "He was kind and gentle; I led him into it". It's disturbing and weird, but maybe it was different in the early 1900's. 1:45
@@Mike-fp5rc Do you know what childhood is? Do you know what it is and the responsibility it takes to be an adult? Abuse in children is not always forced and sometimes happens many cases like those of Joan Crawford. When you are 11 years old, you do not have the sexual maturity, nor the psychological maturity to have sex with an adult man. He, who was the ADULT, must have said NO! It was his obligation. Joan did not understand that it was sexual abuse until she was an adult woman and she already had logic of her own.
@@Mike-fp5rc What will happen in the past will not mean that it was not aberratic. And the Crawford story was at the beginning of the last century, so it was already understood that children do not!
@@Mike-fp5rc Really? Ever heard of grooming? If you know sexually aggressive 11 year olds, better find out who's been abusing them since they were small.
She's one of the all time greats. And she is sexy, still. I first saw her in Cape Fear, and she left a big impression, even scenes with Deniro.he throws shade, but she can throw it right back in a supporting role as the polar opposite Deniro as homicidal rapist. That's the real test of a great actress.
Damn. These are the scenes that made this show so fucking intriguing. They were meant to be friends because inside they were the same person. I love when Joan is in that stoic hard faced zone. "You're lucky".
They were both strong willed but Joan was far more broken than Bette. Bette knew how to be happy and successful, but Joan’s single-minded pursuit of success at any cost destroyed any chance for her to be happy.
@@claudiajadeGrioli69 Where was Bette better than Joan?? Joan's films were more profitable and had better stories. And Joan, outside of the movies and outside of Hollywood, changed laws like adoption laws and was the first woman to enter the business world. That Bette did not abuse her children? Looool Bette was another monstrous lousy mother. Bette disregarded her disabled daughter leaving her in a clinic for life.
They are both great actresses. Bette Davis was a trained actress who went into Hollywood and became a star. Joan started out in Hollywood first and became a star. Bette was from the old school, the stage and Joan the new motion pictures. They were both great, they were both bitchy sometimes and nice at others, and both deserved more than one Oscar.
4 icons : Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Suzanne Sarandon & Jessica Lange 😍😍. Poor Joan had to go through this horrific childhood & how sweet of Bette to show compassion.
Poor Joan? Did you know how physically and mentally abusive she was to her real children? She left her inheritance to her adopted children only. She was a witch! Patterning.
@@barb6868 All of her children were adopted, not just the younger ones. People learn from experience, hopefully, and Joan DID show more compassion to the younger ones, as witnessed in the ep about Christina's opening night on Broadway. Do some fact checking before you throw stones!
The look on Susan Sarandon’s face when she talk about her mother passing almost made me cry, my mother is still alive but to know one day you will say that same line “She was my female friend”.
I honestly think if "Feuds" hadn't gone up against "Big Little Lies" in the same year, it would've copped more awards. Sometimes it's just plain luck, or lack of, when great mini series get released the same year. Nicole Kidman would sweep all the major TV awards that season for Big Little Lies---Emmy, Golden Globe and SAG. But Susan and Jessica deserved it as well.
think it was I've deleted it now, sorry for that ahaha, sometimes I can comment so fast on UA-cam however there was a lot of hate like bridgeton where people were moaning about historical inaccuracy in regards to historical related shows. it's a shame that Olivia de Havilland went against feud when she could've jumped on the ban wagon and gave an interview in regards to the time when whatever happened to baby Jane was filmed and told the correct story to satisfy fans of Bette and Joan and what really happened on the set of Charlotte.
Now that, ladies and gentlemen, IS acting. This scene is excellent, the best from the entire mini series. If every scene had been as great as this one, it would've been more successful. It told you more about who these women were in one five minute scene than the entire show and it is fascinating for it.
I loved this scene in the series. They were so civil to each other and exposed a little vulnerability. Too bad this civility didn't play out the rest of their lives. Thanks, Veronique, this is a good one!
Not that Bette was all that sincere in terms of her rapprochement, but Joan reopened the can of worms by telling Hedda Hopper that Bette would step aside by opting for Best Supporting Actress.
Good acting. Amazing how the Bette Davis character registers horror, disbelief , and compassion... and yet the Joan Crawford character recounts her tale with cold, emotionless, calculating, dead- eyed stare of a cobra!
DCFunBud that didn’t really happen. Nobody called her Lucille after a certain point, even her family of origin. Actually people called her Billie instead of Lucille. Even her brother, whom she rarely ever saw, called her Billie. I think the script writers where trying to go for what they did in the Judy Garland movie with Arthur Freed calling Judy by her real name “Francis”.
I read that her close friend Billie Haines was the ONLY one allowed to call her a name other than "Joan" or Miss Crawford." Haines jokingly called her, "Crawfish."
Weird since literally everyone in Hollywood changed there names when they joined a studio Bette was the rare exception so Bette calling her Lucille is just random
I can watch this scene, and others, repeatedly. Makes me wonder why anyone would want to watch the Kartrashians or any of the awful “reality” tv shows. These 2 are mesmerizing!
Poor Joan- she learned in a very dark way how to please men. I can't imagine how empty your life must be that sexual abuse seems like love. There are probably still victims in similar situations a hundred years later.
It's awful. Some victims are so brainwashed and abused that they think it's perfectly normal. Which makes everything so much worse. They see it as real love and not sick perversion. Heartbreaking that horrific abuse is happening even as I type this.
A genuine moment of vulnerability and empathy between two strong female survivors of abuse, neglect, and hardship. I admire both women. Tough family life and childhood and then they faced the worst of men in Hollywood as well as the glass ceiling. I think due to childhood 'innoculation' against suffering, they survived better than most. Better than poor Marilyn.
As great and powerful as this scene is, I HIGHLY doubt this ever happened. Joan was all about maintaining a certain image to the point where she even fabricated her upbringing so it didn't seem so "unfortunate". As she got older, she eventually started being a bit more honest about her past, but she would have NEVER told Bette these secrets. I just think it was more of a fabricated scene for the show to give more of a background on Joan and where she came from without using an obvious narration.
The meeting did swarm between them but the dialogue they had will never be known. It is logical that more or less the two spoke to meet after so many years of success and rivalry between them. It is not so rare that two stars of the time went out together, today many celebrities do it. The director of the series would put the dialogue as excuse to tell a little about the life of both and especially to tell the terrifying childhood of Joan.
Joan was very guarded about her past . No way she told Bette Davis this stuff I don't think the two ever trusted each other enough to tell intimate secrets Bette respected Joan as an actress but not as a person .Joan walked off the set of Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte and never returned
It’s just a show .. how would you know this if you weren’t there .... I doubt it too but writers have to be creative specially when they do real life people like this.
This scene was the first scene in which I actually forgot that I was watching Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon and I was in the booth with Joan Crawford and Bette Davis.
What a crucial scene. The literal banter is shockingly heartbreaking. This most assuredly did not happen but makes for great drama that far surpasses anything the writers on Dynasty could put to paper! Fantastic acting so rarely seen on film.
The writers took a lot of "liberties" with the storyline. Viewers know this is pure crap, but hey, it's still delicious and intriguing to watch. After 5 mins, you almost start to believe this actually happened. That's good filmmaking.
I just have a hard time believing that the hard nosed Joan talked so eruditely in private. Sure, she sounded like the Queen of England in public, but, behind the scenes, she acted and spoke like a Marine. Bette was the one who was better educated and bred, but in Feud, she was the one made to act and talk like a construction worker.
They both went to boarding school. They both had very different experiences with their mothers. And they both had very different experiences with sex. How sad for Joan to think a pedophile having sex with her was love.
Joan and Bette were both vindictive types, each in her own way. Bette was more blatant, she'll tell it to your face and was not afraid of confrontation. In fact, she got a sick thrill from direct confrontations. Joan was more sneaky and behind-your-back, like what she did to Bette to sabatoge her chances of winning another Oscar for "Baby Jane". All in all, these two were not to be messed with altho Bette got the better of Joan when her "sick-out" from "Sweet Charlotte" set backfired and she was ultimately fired from the picture.
And, in the end, Joan did not sabotage Bette's attempt at a third Oscar. First of all, she was not that powerful. She could not even save her position at MGM. Second, there was no way that Anne Bancroft was going to lose that year. Her performance in The Miracle Worker was simply too strong. The role of Baby Jane Hudson, and the entire movie itself, were too campy to merit the winning of Oscars. In terms of the major awards, Whatever Happened To Baby Jane struck out entirely.
1:03 Christ! Lmao damn I love Sarandon speaks and how she acts in this scene. One of my fav scenes of the series. I hope season 2 about Diana and Charles still happens.
This conversation never happened...but who cares. It makes for good drama illuminates their lives for the viewer makes us admire bette and Joan and wants us to see their movies. Mission accomplished
Chilling how all her life Joan had probably heard that it was her fault and that "she lead him on" and that she corrupted a good, caring man. That "he loved her". All of those must have been ingrained so deep into Joan's brain, along with the trauma of the nun's school (cleanliness, discipline? Mommy dearest), who probably worsened this behaviour, that she accepts this as truth and has completely moved on from it. Wow
joan lived to age 71 (so she didnt make it far into her 70s) and bette davis died at age 81, and the last few years of her life she had poor health and looked like she could have been 10 years older...
i this Movie was amazing, like a interviewer stated once. Joan Crawford was the movie star and Bette Davis was the actress. Both were very good in their own right, They were to much a like.
Sarandon and Lange did their homework and their jobs becoming the very essence of Bette and Joan especially pertaining to their feud of Pain, judgment of one another and jealousy. Bette of Joan's Beauty and Joan of Bette's Talent. Their Childhoods were brutal in different ways and painful but this scene was Epic and spoke Volumes. Joan craved for any kind of positive loving attention even through rape which isn't Love at all. Bette was the complete opposite.
If given the chance and we found a way to bring back those who have died, I think Psychiatrists all over the world would be eye twitchingly excited to work with Bette, Joan and a host of other golden age actresses, address their issues, fears and help them cope.
Many of the claims in Mommie Dearest were widely disputed by those close to Joan, as well as her other children. And the movie was such an over-the-top horror show that even Christina thought it was unfair to her mother. Not saying she was good Mom, but she was likely not the violent monster the movie made her out to be.
@@nassauguy48 Christina mentions one particular "witness" .. who came forward and said that this simply didn't happen that way. There were slaps exchanged, but no strangling.
Like so much of Feud, this never happened. It's inconceivable that these two with their ego, their past, and their pride would permit themselves to be so vulnerable and open in front of a rival (particularly in less than four and a half minutes), but there's truth in the "spirit" of this scene. In addition to the documented historical realness of the relationships they describe with their family members, there's an authenticity to how they react to each other's stories. What's particularly excellent is how natural and not manufactured this scene feels. The dialogue covers a lot of ground in a realistic way, the actresses emotions and performances come across as fully genuine, and most of all, this suits the tone of the whole series in one neat 4 minute scene.
I don't think it happened. But I think it's important for the Feud series to use it as a narrative device to unpack their backstories for the audience otherwise how would it be done? Biopics like this don't have it be exactly true. But what they must do is be truth-ful. In other words, lead us to the truth about the characters - sometimes exactly as it happened and sometimes not. But with the aim of showing us - rather than telling us - what was going on for them psychologically and emotionally throughout their journeys. It does this very well. And whilst it didn't happen that way, it was a really interesting reimagining of what it would've been like if they could've talked frankly like this. And how they would've realised how much they had in common. The Feud director is really trying to make the point through this cocktail meeting of theirs, that these women had more in common than they had different. And in that way, it's a good scene. This isn't a documentary. It's a quasi-fictional reimagining of their "Feud." Some artistic license is desirable. Otherwise it would be unwatchable. The audience has to dream and wonder a little about all the "what if's" along the way.
@@jtrain5615 Bette did several interviews late in her life on tv talk shows and it was clear the two were never friends Best that can be said is that they admired each other 's acting ability Bette still was not over Joan's letter writing campaign to Academy Award judges that kept her from winning an Oscar
Who knows? Personally, I think much of their feud was staged for the media because I always got the vibe that they respected each other as actresses but didn't particularly like each other as people. It's a shame they never got to bury the hatchet, though.
It's a lovely scene but I find it hard to believe that it actually took place. And even harder to believe that Joan told Bette her intimate details about her molestation by her stepfather and even still harder to believe that Bette would've shown the compassion she did in this scene. Having said that, it's a nice idea and concept for the Feud series and perhaps helps to unpack some of the psychological baggage for the audience to better understand where these women were coming from. But I doubt it happened.
I wonder why she wanted children, apart from any biological need, which seems doubtful, given her childhood, maybe just a narcissistic need, based on her adopted daughter, Christina's biography.
Christina Crawford claimed that her grandmother, Joan’s mother, was a kind, caring lady, the sort who baked cakes and pies for her grandchildren. Christina claimed that Joan resented the hell out of her mother for being a reminder of her impoverished upbringing, and cut her out of her and her children’s lives - but there was a time when Anna visited regularly.
I know the media did their darndest to try dig up dirt btw Susan and Jessica on the set of Feuds to see if life imitated art. Nope. These two are PROS thru and thru. Especially Jessica has worked in movies, TV, Broadway over 40 years.......she has a stellar rep, never any fights with anyone. Susan supposedly had a huge falling out with Julia Roberts after they worked on Stepmom. This was vehemently denied by all parties. But the funny thing is we have not seen Susan and Julia together ever since that movie wrapped. Hmm......
Even if it was consensual with Joan and her stepfather, it was still rape, from a legal standpoint, and just plain disgusting and evil. The sick bastard should have been castrated!
Not incest but disgusting just the same. The incident was statutory rape and it did mentally damage Lucille -- no matter what she thought/said. So sad.
Crestalban 🏫 A puritanical boarding school in western Massachusetts. Doesn't exist anymore. Where Bette took cold 🥶 baths in the ❄ snow as a school girl.
Aside from their hard nosed approach and being abandoned by their fathers, Bette and Joan were really not that similar. Joan definitely had the harder childhood. She lost her virginity to her stepfather at age 11, was despised by her mother, was married multiple times, and had to adopt children due to several miscarriages. Bette was loved by her mother, waited until marriage to lose her virginity, was married only once, and gave birth to her own child.
I kind of doubt this conversation occurred. I doubt the 2 of them would have been so open with each other especially Joan admitting having sex with her stepfather. Sad and shocking at the same time but all too common even today.
sounds like both Bette Davis and Joan Crawford had a really shitty childhood. and I thought mine was bad, with a emotionally and psychologically abusive, father who was also an alcoholic , and also Addicted to prescription drugs .... guess that's the reason why I am what I am today. I vowed No One would EVER treat me that way again without consequence🤘
OMG, when Bette was talking about being close to her mother and missing her... I had to grab a tissue! And what happened to Joan with her disgusting perverted stepfather made me want to puke. No 11-year-old should even have the slightest clue what sex is, other than an activity between two consenting adults that children are not to partake in. So sad that her mother left her in such emotional desolation that a grown man could weasel his way in and take such a precious asset...
The genuine concern and sadness on Bette’s face when Joan tells her about her stepfather is so damn well acted. Majestic acting from two queens.
Yesss
Susan Sarandon & Jessica Lange who could ever forget these very incredible actresses.
The way poor Joan casually explains it and even says the guy was a good man. That made my skin crawl. Even Bette is horrified. Too many victims of sexual abuse think what happened to them is ok or normal. It was even worse back then. Almost no support for victims.
I’m a victim and I can relate to that sort of response. It’s not that it’s okay. But after years of being traumatized you just accept it as what happened. It wasn’t right, but you aren’t shackled by the pain anymore and just let it go like it was nothing. I’ve had the same reaction of people being shocked at how nonchalant I talk about the abuse but it’s something only victims can understand. No excuses, but no hard feelings either. you just grow up and move on.
And blames herself for his abuse of her. Harrowing.
@alexanderluna4598 Wow, thats very brave 😮
Yes, it was definitely abuse, no doubt about it, but unlike Christina, who suffered the open contempt and brutal physical beatings from her mother, Joan at least had the DELUSION of being loved by her stepfather. Not condoning his sexual predation, but Christina still suffered far more.
@@taymur0804 I believe their point was that survivors learn to adapt to/cope with it, they are not being ''brave'' intentionally... Also, we shouldn't frame as surviving/experiencing abuse as ''brave''.
The hell these two women endured in their lifetime. Both very strong survivors. Joan's story of her stepfather's abuse. The way she casually spoke about it. She was able to overcome the trauma and move on. The strength in that. But then again, women didn't have much choice but to fight twice as hard.
I believe this drama wasn't historically accurate.
Never get over sexual abuse just learn to deal with it ....her life behavior, drinking, sex addiction, mental health..rage all reflect her abuse
Nobody overcomes trauma like that, they just learn to deal with it... or not and just live with that.
@@jordanaus75 Some scenes were exaggerated or totally fictional but abuse was real and their childhood stories were taken from their biographies.
@@lynntownsend4457 Agree except one thing: how do you know if she had ''sex addiction''???
Sad scene.....You can see Bette's shock at Joan being raped at 11 by her stepfather. I love how Bette always calls Joan by her real name "Lucille". Sarandon and Lange did a very impressive job in this series.
@Shane Brown Rape? You must have missed the part where she said "He was kind and gentle; I led him into it". It's disturbing and weird, but maybe it was different in the early 1900's. 1:45
@@Mike-fp5rc Do you know what childhood is? Do you know what it is and the responsibility it takes to be an adult? Abuse in children is not always forced and sometimes happens many cases like those of Joan Crawford. When you are 11 years old, you do not have the sexual maturity, nor the psychological maturity to have sex with an adult man. He, who was the ADULT, must have said NO! It was his obligation. Joan did not understand that it was sexual abuse until she was an adult woman and she already had logic of her own.
@@Mike-fp5rc What will happen in the past will not mean that it was not aberratic. And the Crawford story was at the beginning of the last century, so it was already understood that children do not!
This scene was so sad. Betty knew at this point this women was hard cuz she was abused..
@@Mike-fp5rc Really? Ever heard of grooming? If you know sexually aggressive 11 year olds, better find out who's been abusing them since they were small.
Jessica Lange is such a great actress.
She's one of the all time greats. And she is sexy, still. I first saw her in Cape Fear, and she left a big impression, even scenes with Deniro.he throws shade, but she can throw it right back in a supporting role as the polar opposite Deniro as homicidal rapist. That's the real test of a great actress.
Yeah, she's my favorite. Frances, Men Don't Leave and Blue Sky are her best work.
Not Tootsie?
She is the best 😊
Damn. These are the scenes that made this show so fucking intriguing. They were meant to be friends because inside they were the same person.
I love when Joan is in that stoic hard faced zone. "You're lucky".
no..bette was far better and she never abused her children
Right... smoke much crack?
They were both strong willed but Joan was far more broken than Bette. Bette knew how to be happy and successful, but Joan’s single-minded pursuit of success at any cost destroyed any chance for her to be happy.
@@claudiajadeGrioli69 Where was Bette better than Joan?? Joan's films were more profitable and had better stories. And Joan, outside of the movies and outside of Hollywood, changed laws like adoption laws and was the first woman to enter the business world. That Bette did not abuse her children? Looool Bette was another monstrous lousy mother. Bette disregarded her disabled daughter leaving her in a clinic for life.
They are both great actresses. Bette Davis was a trained actress who went into Hollywood and became a star. Joan started out in Hollywood first and became a star. Bette was from the old school, the stage and Joan the new motion pictures. They were both great, they were both bitchy sometimes and nice at others, and both deserved more than one Oscar.
This was the only current mini-series I've gotten into over the last 30 years. I could easily watch it over and over, it's that good.
Such a vulnerable moment for the both of them, thank you.
4 icons : Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Suzanne Sarandon & Jessica Lange 😍😍. Poor Joan had to go through this horrific childhood & how sweet of Bette to show compassion.
Susan.
Poor Joan? Did you know how physically and mentally abusive she was to her real children? She left her inheritance to her adopted children only. She was a witch! Patterning.
@@terr777 hahah right I wrote it in French
@@barb6868 I'm not praising her but parents have reasons for how they turn out + no therapy ...
@@barb6868 All of her children were adopted, not just the younger ones. People learn from experience, hopefully, and Joan DID show more compassion to the younger ones, as witnessed in the ep about Christina's opening night on Broadway. Do some fact checking before you throw stones!
The look on Susan Sarandon’s face when she talk about her mother passing almost made me cry, my mother is still alive but to know one day you will say that same line “She was my female friend”.
That oh so subtle face drop when Bette hears that Joan lost her virginity to her step-father, expecting it to be a young boy.
" discipline. .. the importance of cleanliness and order "
Mommie Dearest
My thought exactly... tragic.
I honestly think if "Feuds" hadn't gone up against "Big Little Lies" in the same year, it would've copped more awards.
Sometimes it's just plain luck, or lack of, when great mini series get released the same year.
Nicole Kidman would sweep all the major TV awards that season for Big Little Lies---Emmy, Golden Globe and SAG.
But Susan and Jessica deserved it as well.
@@charlessoutherton8946umm is this posted under the correct comment?
think it was I've deleted it now, sorry for that ahaha, sometimes I can comment so fast on UA-cam however there was a lot of hate like bridgeton where people were moaning about historical inaccuracy in regards to historical related shows. it's a shame that Olivia de Havilland went against feud when she could've jumped on the ban wagon and gave an interview in regards to the time when whatever happened to baby Jane was filmed and told the correct story to satisfy fans of Bette and Joan and what really happened on the set of Charlotte.
Now that, ladies and gentlemen, IS acting. This scene is excellent, the best from the entire mini series. If every scene had been as great as this one, it would've been more successful. It told you more about who these women were in one five minute scene than the entire show and it is fascinating for it.
Wow! Jessica Lange's performance is so wonderfully nuanced and textured in its mannerisms. Both great actresses but Jessica steals every scene.
I like to think that they are sharing a drink in heaven, just like in this scene, two powerful, beautiful women, laughing over the dramas of life
And how petty it all must seem, in hindsight, from that other side!
you swear they're in heaven. lol
Ah, Bette and Joan...The Original “Frenemies”!
I loved this scene in the series. They were so civil to each other and exposed a little vulnerability. Too bad this civility didn't play out the rest of their lives. Thanks, Veronique, this is a good one!
Does this incident even really existed in REAL LIFE? I doubt it.
Probably not; but it's still a good scene.
Not that Bette was all that sincere in terms of her rapprochement, but Joan reopened the can of worms by telling Hedda Hopper that Bette would step aside by opting for Best Supporting Actress.
In my fantasy world. This was the moment Joan and Bette became united as one powerful force !!
I'm speechless... two amazing actresses!
Good acting. Amazing how the Bette Davis character registers horror, disbelief , and compassion... and yet the Joan Crawford character recounts her tale with cold, emotionless, calculating, dead- eyed stare of a cobra!
It's funny Joan never corrects Bette when she calls her Lucille. Only her family of origin called her that.
DCFunBud that didn’t really happen. Nobody called her Lucille after a certain point, even her family of origin. Actually people called her Billie instead of Lucille. Even her brother, whom she rarely ever saw, called her Billie. I think the script writers where trying to go for what they did in the Judy Garland movie with Arthur Freed calling Judy by her real name “Francis”.
I read that her close friend Billie Haines was the ONLY one allowed to call her a name other than "Joan" or Miss Crawford." Haines jokingly called her, "Crawfish."
Wonderful, poignant, deeply felt and studied performances by Lange and Sarandon.
I LOVE that Bette called Joan by her real name Lucille. It was her way of saying I know where and what you came from.
Weird since literally everyone in Hollywood changed there names when they joined a studio Bette was the rare exception so Bette calling her Lucille is just random
Susan sarrandon does a great job! I love her! So does Lange!
I forgot about this lil detail and it explains everything about Crawford. Childhood grooming messes with the mind.
I can watch this scene, and others, repeatedly. Makes me wonder why anyone would want to watch the Kartrashians or any of the awful “reality” tv shows. These 2 are mesmerizing!
You didn’t wonder that before?
Poor Joan- she learned in a very dark way how to please men. I can't imagine how empty your life must be that sexual abuse seems like love. There are probably still victims in similar situations a hundred years later.
It's awful. Some victims are so brainwashed and abused that they think it's perfectly normal. Which makes everything so much worse. They see it as real love and not sick perversion. Heartbreaking that horrific abuse is happening even as I type this.
True.
A genuine moment of vulnerability and empathy between two strong female survivors of abuse, neglect, and hardship. I admire both women. Tough family life and childhood and then they faced the worst of men in Hollywood as well as the glass ceiling.
I think due to childhood 'innoculation' against suffering, they survived better than most. Better than poor Marilyn.
I am not certain as to how Bette actually suffered, with the exception of her father running off.
Damn! Both of them are such great actors and always have been, but their work here is so good it’s almost scary! Love love love 💕
As great and powerful as this scene is, I HIGHLY doubt this ever happened. Joan was all about maintaining a certain image to the point where she even fabricated her upbringing so it didn't seem so "unfortunate". As she got older, she eventually started being a bit more honest about her past, but she would have NEVER told Bette these secrets. I just think it was more of a fabricated scene for the show to give more of a background on Joan and where she came from without using an obvious narration.
Exactly. There's no way in hell that Joan Crawford would have revealed such personal details to Bette Davis.
The meeting did swarm between them but the dialogue they had will never be known. It is logical that more or less the two spoke to meet after so many years of success and rivalry between them. It is not so rare that two stars of the time went out together, today many celebrities do it. The director of the series would put the dialogue as excuse to tell a little about the life of both and especially to tell the terrifying childhood of Joan.
Joan was very guarded about her past . No way she told Bette Davis this stuff I don't think the two ever trusted each other enough to tell intimate secrets
Bette respected Joan as an actress but not as a person .Joan walked off the set of Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte and never returned
It’s just a show .. how would you know this if you weren’t there .... I doubt it too but writers have to be creative specially when they do real life people like this.
They took a lot of "liberties" with the storyline.
Viewers know this is pure crap, but hey, it's still delicious and intriguing to watch.
Christ, these performances are insanely good
Jessica's voice is so sexy
This scene was the first scene in which I actually forgot that I was watching Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon and I was in the booth with Joan Crawford and Bette Davis.
This is FINALLY on Hulu!! 🙂
What a crucial scene. The literal banter is shockingly heartbreaking. This most assuredly did not happen but makes for great drama that far surpasses anything the writers on Dynasty could put to paper! Fantastic acting so rarely seen on film.
Actually, I read Joan was abused, horribly!
Love you Joan and Jessica Lange 👍🏻👌🏻
Thank you so much for posting all these awesome clips !!!!!!!!
The writers took a lot of "liberties" with the storyline.
Viewers know this is pure crap, but hey, it's still delicious and intriguing to watch.
After 5 mins, you almost start to believe this actually happened.
That's good filmmaking.
I just have a hard time believing that the hard nosed Joan talked so eruditely in private. Sure, she sounded like the Queen of England in public, but, behind the scenes, she acted and spoke like a Marine. Bette was the one who was better educated and bred, but in Feud, she was the one made to act and talk like a construction worker.
@@nassauguy48 Bingo!
@@nassauguy48 Exactly! Her interview persona was so fake.
This is one of the best scenes from this miniseries
I love this scene and have viewed it multiple times. Thanks again, Veronique!
They both went to boarding school. They both had very different experiences with their mothers. And they both had very different experiences with sex. How sad for Joan to think a pedophile having sex with her was love.
Both r tortured souls, and that makes them the greatest star ever 💓💓💓 👑👑
Joan and Bette were both vindictive types, each in her own way.
Bette was more blatant, she'll tell it to your face and was not afraid of confrontation.
In fact, she got a sick thrill from direct confrontations.
Joan was more sneaky and behind-your-back, like what she did to Bette to sabatoge her chances of winning another Oscar for "Baby Jane".
All in all, these two were not to be messed with altho Bette got the better of Joan when her "sick-out" from "Sweet Charlotte" set backfired and she was ultimately fired from the picture.
And, in the end, Joan did not sabotage Bette's attempt at a third Oscar. First of all, she was not that powerful. She could not even save her position at MGM. Second, there was no way that Anne Bancroft was going to lose that year. Her performance in The Miracle Worker was simply too strong. The role of Baby Jane Hudson, and the entire movie itself, were too campy to merit the winning of Oscars. In terms of the major awards, Whatever Happened To Baby Jane struck out entirely.
Jessica and Susan....simply the best!!
Powerful performances, by two great actresses. Sad to think of this happening to anyone as a kid.
1:03 Christ! Lmao damn I love Sarandon speaks and how she acts in this scene. One of my fav scenes of the series. I hope season 2 about Diana and Charles still happens.
This conversation never happened...but who cares. It makes for good drama illuminates their lives for the viewer makes us admire bette and Joan and wants us to see their movies. Mission accomplished
Chilling how all her life Joan had probably heard that it was her fault and that "she lead him on" and that she corrupted a good, caring man. That "he loved her". All of those must have been ingrained so deep into Joan's brain, along with the trauma of the nun's school (cleanliness, discipline? Mommy dearest), who probably worsened this behaviour, that she accepts this as truth and has completely moved on from it. Wow
I love how these women drank and smoked but Joan lived into her 70's and Bette into her 90's.
WD Harris bette smoked up to 100 cigarettes a day towards the end too.....
joan lived to age 71 (so she didnt make it far into her 70s) and bette davis died at age 81, and the last few years of her life she had poor health and looked like she could have been 10 years older...
When tobacco was just tobacco and not filled with cancer
@@tanamurphy7388 when was that?
Poor Joan . How awful her stepfather did that to her. It doesn't surprise me her mom didn't do anything.
i this Movie was amazing, like a interviewer stated once. Joan Crawford was the movie star and Bette Davis was the actress. Both were very good in their own right, They were to much a like.
Loved this, thanks. I wonder if Bette really called "Joan", Lucille, her real name.
Sarandon and Lange did their homework and their jobs becoming the very essence of Bette and Joan especially pertaining to their feud of Pain, judgment of one another and jealousy. Bette of Joan's Beauty and Joan of Bette's Talent. Their Childhoods were brutal in different ways and painful but this scene was Epic and spoke Volumes. Joan craved for any kind of positive loving attention even through rape which isn't Love at all. Bette was the complete opposite.
2 crazy women... plain and simple. Both very very driven and ambitious.
If given the chance and we found a way to bring back those who have died, I think Psychiatrists all over the world would be eye twitchingly excited to work with Bette, Joan and a host of other golden age actresses, address their issues, fears and help them cope.
They could have been such good friends 😔
Such touching revelations 😭
This version of Joan was much more functional than Mommie Dearest.
@@admeliora4822 Exactly. We aren't getting to see the nightmare Joan is putting those kids through at home.
Many of the claims in Mommie Dearest were widely disputed by those close to Joan, as well as her other children. And the movie was such an over-the-top horror show that even Christina thought it was unfair to her mother. Not saying she was good Mom, but she was likely not the violent monster the movie made her out to be.
@@hutch1197 Well, in a number of interviews, Christina says that Joan tried to kill her. How unfair or not as violent can that be?
Mommie Dearest is fabricated, embellished filth...
@@nassauguy48 Christina mentions one particular "witness" .. who came forward and said that this simply didn't happen that way. There were slaps exchanged, but no strangling.
Like so much of Feud, this never happened. It's inconceivable that these two with their ego, their past, and their pride would permit themselves to be so vulnerable and open in front of a rival (particularly in less than four and a half minutes), but there's truth in the "spirit" of this scene. In addition to the documented historical realness of the relationships they describe with their family members, there's an authenticity to how they react to each other's stories.
What's particularly excellent is how natural and not manufactured this scene feels. The dialogue covers a lot of ground in a realistic way, the actresses emotions and performances come across as fully genuine, and most of all, this suits the tone of the whole series in one neat 4 minute scene.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting all these wonderful clips Veronique!♥
Do you suppose they ever really had such conversations in real-life?
nope
It doesn't line up with everything that's been said by people who were are around at the time. This scene (although great) takes a lot of liberties.
I don't think it happened. But I think it's important for the Feud series to use it as a narrative device to unpack their backstories for the audience otherwise how would it be done? Biopics like this don't have it be exactly true. But what they must do is be truth-ful. In other words, lead us to the truth about the characters - sometimes exactly as it happened and sometimes not. But with the aim of showing us - rather than telling us - what was going on for them psychologically and emotionally throughout their journeys. It does this very well. And whilst it didn't happen that way, it was a really interesting reimagining of what it would've been like if they could've talked frankly like this. And how they would've realised how much they had in common. The Feud director is really trying to make the point through this cocktail meeting of theirs, that these women had more in common than they had different. And in that way, it's a good scene. This isn't a documentary. It's a quasi-fictional reimagining of their "Feud." Some artistic license is desirable. Otherwise it would be unwatchable. The audience has to dream and wonder a little about all the "what if's" along the way.
@@jtrain5615 Bette did several interviews late in her life on tv talk shows and it was clear the two were never friends Best that can be said is that they admired each other 's acting ability Bette still was not over Joan's letter writing campaign to Academy Award judges that kept her from winning an Oscar
Who knows? Personally, I think much of their feud was staged for the media because I always got the vibe that they respected each other as actresses but didn't particularly like each other as people. It's a shame they never got to bury the hatchet, though.
Great music in the background!
They really could have been friends :'(
Fuck, Lange gave one of the performances of her career
Best acting with both females.
I *still* wish they could have been friends.
I know. I know. But I still do.
It's a lovely scene but I find it hard to believe that it actually took place. And even harder to believe that Joan told Bette her intimate details about her molestation by her stepfather and even still harder to believe that Bette would've shown the compassion she did in this scene. Having said that, it's a nice idea and concept for the Feud series and perhaps helps to unpack some of the psychological baggage for the audience to better understand where these women were coming from. But I doubt it happened.
Joan had a tough childhood.
I wonder why she wanted children, apart from any biological need, which seems doubtful, given her childhood, maybe just a narcissistic need, based on her adopted daughter, Christina's biography.
@@jaxcaulfield7071 it was for publicity
"Damn good acting"
Notice how Susan Sarandon is just holding the cigarette not smoking coz Susan doesn't smoke in real life while Bette Davis smoked heavily.
Bette was 24 when she married
Great scene, great actresses.
Christina Crawford claimed that her grandmother, Joan’s mother, was a kind, caring lady, the sort who baked cakes and pies for her grandchildren. Christina claimed that Joan resented the hell out of her mother for being a reminder of her impoverished upbringing, and cut her out of her and her children’s lives - but there was a time when Anna visited regularly.
I know the media did their darndest to try dig up dirt btw Susan and Jessica on the set of Feuds to see if life imitated art.
Nope. These two are PROS thru and thru.
Especially Jessica has worked in movies, TV, Broadway over 40 years.......she has a stellar rep, never any fights with anyone.
Susan supposedly had a huge falling out with Julia Roberts after they worked on Stepmom.
This was vehemently denied by all parties.
But the funny thing is we have not seen Susan and Julia together ever since that movie wrapped.
Hmm......
The look on Susan Sarandon's/Bette Davis's face at 1:54 is the personification of the word APPALLED.
Even if it was consensual with Joan and her stepfather, it was still rape, from a legal standpoint, and just plain disgusting and evil. The sick bastard should have been castrated!
This is fantastic!
1:53 Bette’s look says it all
That last line....... now you KNOW that this exchange NEVER happened.
What Powerhouses!!!😇💖🙏😊💖🙏
When I saw this first, when I saw Bette (well Sharon, but you know) I was like “GIRL SAME THE FUCK”.
You mean Susan.
Not incest but disgusting just the same. The incident was statutory rape and it did mentally damage Lucille -- no matter what she thought/said. So sad.
This is Hilarious, She is like'I led him into it 😁
I never knew molestation could be hilarious but whatever to each it’s own 🥴🙄🤨
Joan's story made me very sad, no wonder she was how she was.
Crestalban 🏫 A puritanical boarding school in western Massachusetts. Doesn't exist anymore. Where Bette took cold 🥶 baths in the ❄ snow as a school girl.
Epic scene
Jessica Lange, ran away with this movie!
Shades, shades everywhere
Brilliant
I always pictured Susan Sarandon as bette…I wish she would do a more truthful one..but I enjoyed this one anyway.
The could Had been best Friends......
This scene needs to be studied there, and two are the easy actresses
i honestly think joan and bette could have been great friends if they were more able to work out their differences...
wow wee I didn't want to hear this.
Aside from their hard nosed approach and being abandoned by their fathers, Bette and Joan were really not that similar. Joan definitely had the harder childhood. She lost her virginity to her stepfather at age 11, was despised by her mother, was married multiple times, and had to adopt children due to several miscarriages. Bette was loved by her mother, waited until marriage to lose her virginity, was married only once, and gave birth to her own child.
does anyone kmow when it will come back oN???
I kind of doubt this conversation occurred. I doubt the 2 of them would have been so open with each other especially Joan admitting having sex with her stepfather. Sad and shocking at the same time but all too common even today.
Did this scene really happen? I doubt it
sounds like both Bette Davis and Joan Crawford had a really shitty childhood.
and I thought mine was bad, with a emotionally and psychologically abusive,
father who was also an alcoholic , and also Addicted to prescription drugs
.... guess that's the reason why I am what I am today. I vowed No One would
EVER treat me that way again without consequence🤘
11 GEEZE LOUISE!
OMG, when Bette was talking about being close to her mother and missing her... I had to grab a tissue! And what happened to Joan with her disgusting perverted stepfather made me want to puke. No 11-year-old should even have the slightest clue what sex is, other than an activity between two consenting adults that children are not to partake in. So sad that her mother left her in such emotional desolation that a grown man could weasel his way in and take such a precious asset...