What Really Happened When America Tried to Invade Britain?
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2021
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Thoughty2 (Arran) is a British UA-camr and gatekeeper of useless facts. Thoughty2 creates mind-blowing factual videos about science, tech, history, opinion and just about everything else.
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Writing: Steven Rix
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Hello
Hello
You should do a video on Bobby Fischer
Hi, your video mentions where I live which is Dumfries and Galloway, that’s awesome for a change! Kircudbright is close to where I live. I’m sorry to point out but you butchered the pronunciation.
Hi, your video mentions where I live which is Dumfries and Galloway, that’s awesome for a change! Kircudbright is close to where I live. I’m sorry to point out but you butchered the pronunciation.
John P Jones with his single ship:
England: You've got to be the worst navy we've ever heard of.
John P: But you have heard of me.
CAPTAIN JACK SPARROW!!!!!!!
@@atkguy7109 ua-cam.com/video/GI6CfKcMhjY/v-deo.html
Jack Sparrow quote ftw
The only reason an Englishman remembers the name 'John Paul Jones' is because he's a musician who played bass and mandolin with Led Zeppelin.
@@sunnyjim1355 Actually he's more well known for his arrangements. The string arrangements on Kasmir and the recorders on Stairway, for example. He then did arrangements for other artists on some very famous songs.
Not going to lie, the biggest twist of this whole story is an English fleet being saved by an Irishmen. Pretty sure you could classify the Anglo-Irish relationship as ‘special’ also, though for entirely different reasons haha
The fact that Jones was Scottish (with a Welsh name) makes this even funnier 😂
@@scotfly4172 There's all sorts of messed-up going on here lol
Obviously he meant a special relationship, not with the US or Ireland, it's probably Britain and France ? Spain ? Germany ? The Dutch? Ah... nevermind.
Lol I know right as a Canadian Irishman myself I didn't see that coming lol 😆
Maybe he was North Irish. Nah, just kidding, was North Ireland even a country then? It's not important enough for me to google.
Another fun fact about John Paul Jones is that after the Revolutionary War, he actually made his way back to England, lived another 150 years, and became a really good bass player
As with keyboard , I if I heard correctly a classical orchestra director? I'm not sure about the last, but as a kid in the 70's I'd all the records up to that point. I recorded what I thought were all my favourite what I call pump up songs of theirs and would listen before sports events.
@BogusJNutherwebb-me6pn keyboard and bassist on songs like trampled under foot and since I've been loving you. He wrote the orchestral section of kashmir, making it one of the most recognizable songs of the past 100 years. Not to mention the legendary bass lines on immigrant song, dazed and confused and heartbreaker just to name a few
Did you know that he almost left Led Zeppelin to become the organist at Winchester cathedral?
Also in his spare time I believe he was Pope John Paul.
🤣🤣
So, a Brit who ran away on murder charges was one of the founders of the US navy, and decided to go and attack the British isles with only 1 ship against the greatest force in the world at the time. Sounds about British honestly
Most American's at the time were victims of British tyranny and that's why they left the island,Duh..
@@jasonallen3678 “most Americans were victims of British tyranny”
I think you mean the rich slave owners didn’t want to pay taxes after being defended in a war they had a hand in starting ?
This isn’t a dig, I have respect & admiration for the US, and I’m sure some of the complaints were valid. I just don’t think it amounts to tyranny.
You could point to British rule over Ireland or India and then it would have to be said it was tyrannical. But tyranny in the 13 colonies ? Barely
@@fredbarker9201 British opposed insane taxes and taxed just about everything on Americans add a massacre and that sounds pretty tyrannical to me we won a war and escaped the tyranny of the British empire
@@fredbarker9201 and everyone was slave owners at that time why people act like we are the only people to enslave others every group has enslaved every group throughout history
@@jasonallen3678 "British tyranny" yeah good one. 😂😂
John Paul Jones: "Let's sink supply ships and bring the United Kingdom to its knees with a single ship."
Germany: _"...Write that down! Write that down!!!"_
Long beach griphy?
Nice1 lol
Why do Sotts wear kilts? Because SHEEP CAN HEAR ZIPPERS.
Yeah that’s funny. No matter how you pronounce it.
@@Triangleinformation 🤣💀
This is the kind of comment we need.
And not a single mention of John Paul Jones' career as bass player for Led Zeppelin
sure-fire (!) swan song (!!) for the episode eh?
Some people just have no sense of history.
Don't forget his brother Davy who was a member of the Monkees!
Jimmy Page said that Jones was the greatest musician that he's ever known, that there wasn't an instrument that he couldn't play.
@@denimdan908 It's pretty accurate, considering he was known to have played something like 26 different instruments with Led Zep. And coming from one of greatest guitarists ever, too!
Also, I want to add that the winter uniforms that George Washington and his men wore when crossing the Delaware River in the winter of 1776 were British uniforms that were part of the Drake's shipment of supplies to the British army, and were sent to the Continental Army by John Paul Jones upon his return to America.
"Raid the pub" in a town with no fewer than 134 pubs by the 1800s. What an absolute Mad Lad. He's still a bit of a legend in Whitehaven, we named a pub after him, errected statues around the town in memory of him and his crew, and pardoned him in 1999.
I spent many a good time in the JPJ in "Whitehevven" in the 90's/ 2000's. !
Did you also know he raped a 10 year old girl? they didn't tell you about that did they?
@@cpj93070 Perhaps he was practicing to become POTUS one day.
@@davebeat Yeah that's right trying to make a joke out of something serious.
Britain never recovered from backstreet boys vicious attack some people even say it was one of reason for 2008 crash
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🏻
Revenge for the Spice Girls.
😂😂😂
It took me a minute to get that reference. Good job! 👍
Yes, it was cruel.
Can we get a video on John Paul Jones' military career in the Russian military after he left the US. He had a whole second career in the black sea.
no it's not important
@@jinz0 wrong.. It is important. And I'd like thoughty2 to do an episode in it awell
@@dragonoftheeast7572 he won't because it's not important
You are not important
@@rocksolid6494 neither is john paul jones career in russia
I just love how he considered setting an entire fleet in fire, then a kidnapping yet returned the silver with an apology note.
Very interesting. Like Jones himself I'm Scottish, too, but I live in the port of Leith (Edinburgh) which also has a connection to the story.
On 14th August 1779 Jones set sail on another tour of Britain as commodore of a squadron of seven ships. The plan was to destroy British commerce in the North Sea and Jones sailed round Ireland and Scotland entering Leith harbour on 16th September. He intended to capture it and extract a ransom of £50,000 but he was thwarted when a gale sprung up and blew him out of the Firth of Forth.
A recently renamed street in Leith references the incident. John Paul Jones View.
P.S. the pronunciation of Kirkcudbright was hilarious here. It's pronounced Kirk-coo-brie
It's ironic that my least favorite class in high school was history, but as an adult I can't get enough! Too bad history teachers don't take a lesson on how to make it interesting when you're young!
Yep, and it’s the one class that could be made interesting.
It isn't usually the teacher; they can only teach with the textbooks and curriculum they are allowed, not whatever they choose themselves.
Every history lesson, my secondary school teacher would hand us copies taken from history books then he’d leave the class. Every lesson, for two years.
teachers on the grindset
My history teacher was my gym teacher and my gym teacher handed me a lie and told me to study it.
The Port of Whitehaven pardoned John Paul Jones in 1999 for his raid on the town back in 1778.
Upon realising the far greater threat of the backstreet boys.
@@michaels8628 Lol
Don’t forget John Bonham, Jimmy page and Robert Plant
Better Late than Never right?
They were just trying to be cute about it with the triple same number right there, weren't they?
Wow...I knew John Paul Jones' skills were underrated but I never dreamed he stretched THIS far beyond bass playing....the man is versatile!
Imagine throwing in that matches were invented after the lighter casually at the 10:00 minute mark, completely shattering my perception of history and then continuing on with your story while the foundation of how i've ever operated crumbles around me. Another great video mate! Cheers indeed LMAO
What happened when Britain invaded America? We got The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who and Pink Floyd. Thank you, you guys rock!
John Paul Jones is always involved
@@stlvn6363 Nail on the head!
We also got a Bo'ohw'o'wo'er
Also racism...
Iron maiden and Motörhead :)
I've learned a lot in this channel more than listening to my teachers
You should work on your listing skills then.
@@TwistedSoul2002 listing skills?
In this video he did not mention that the Port of Whitehaven pardoned John Paul Jones in 1999 for his raid on the town back in 1778.
How much of it do you remember? 3 2 1 GO!
@@Getorix Guess they need to work on their typing skills.
Love the story telling & animation, however, the Scottish town of Kirkudbright is pronounced Kirkoobree :)
Keep up the great work
Yep, and don't hang about on the 'koobree' bit. The pronunciation is equal timing on each vowel sound and pronounced - kir-koobree or kir-koobray not kirk- oobray. Apart from that, great video!! 😁
Oh how I cringed at how he said it lol. Danced around the fact JPJ was a Scot too. He was christened John Paul only adding the Jones after fleeing to America in 1770
Was coming to see if I needed to say this or not lol. Despite the fact I'm from Medway in Kent, born and raised, I happen to know of this town and how to say it's name. My Gran was Scottish see and had a VHS of a show called the Singing Kettle. My absolute favourite song from it was always The Wee Kirkcudbright Centipede lol. I must have watched that video hundreds of times and to this day know the words to that song off-by-heart.
Always vastly enjoy your videos. Ever since you first started the channel. Thanks for all of it!
I am actually surprised matches aren't older.
Matches are, the safety matches which you use today are not.
@@siddharthvivek2278 Wouldnt consider it "safety" matches as in that era it gave you phossy jaw
Getting a fire going with flint and steel and dry kindling can often be time consuming. I know because it tried doing it back when I was a Boy Scout. Trying to get a fire going by quickly rubbing 2 pieces of wood together is extremely difficult, I gave up on that after my hands felt like blisters were forming.
As am I . I actually thought that some types matches were invented basically around the time that gun powder was being used in fireworks ( before 1200s ) .
@@michaeltheoret8913They're even older than that! Ancient Egyptians used pieces of wood dipped in sulphur as a quick way to start fires.
To be fair, had Jones had a crew that wasn’t full of idiots and a traitor he would have likely had a fairly successful trip. Crazy as it may have been.
well to attack the greatest navy on earth with a single ship you need a crazy insane idiotic crew to begin with
@@amusarung7828 either that or a film crew or even a TTRPG party.
@@amusarung7828 Damn catch 22, that one.
WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE.
COULD THIS BE A LESSER THAN KNOWN REVELATION THAT TIES TO ROGER FROM ONE PIECE????
@@amusarung7828 they watched too many Rock/Schwarzenegger action movies :)
"The United States and Britain have the greatest friendship"
**Looks at Poland and Hungary making out on the couch**
😂😂😂
UK and Portugal
That "Friends with benefits" joke was seriously perfectly executed :D
"John Paul Jones was British" no shit? Wasn't everyone in the colony more or less British before and even during the war for independence?
I suppose it's surprising as he was born and raised in the UK
By around 1750 the majority of Colonists were born Native to the States. However, even during the Revolutionary war between 30% - 50% of Colonists remained Loyal to the crown and actively worked against the Revolution. We called them Loyalists and they were frequently Tarred and Feathered. 😂
We have always been more culturally similar than most would care to admit though, even to this day.
Well actually that war should be renamed the First US Civil War. As there was no such thing as a US citizen during that period as both sides were subjects of the Crown.
In fact both Colonialists and British born fought on both sides.
What the Yanks call the Civil War should be renamed the War of northern aggression.
The original colonies were founded by British ppl
@@mazambane286 exactly ...
You didn’t mention arguably the best part. Long story short, he ended up with a “Bad Company”-esque fleet of ships and crew and was given the USS Bonhomme Richard (thank you Ben Franklin and France), which John Paul Jones armed with junkyard canons. Since canons are expensive. Anyways, those of the crew who didn’t just up and sail away engaged the British Serapis (the ship the flag Ranger flies in the video got its name from it). It essentially ended up with a fucking free for all of everybody shooting at each other, including one of the ships from Jones’ crew who previously left, coming back and firing at the Bonhomme Richard with the others. John Paul Jonás, at a disadvantage in every possible way, rammed the Serapis with Bonhomme Richard, which should NOT have even been floating by this point. After more exchanging of fire, at some point the British captain or someone calls for their surrender, to which, after PLENTY of fighting, outgunned, outmanned, with much of his crew dead, having been fired on by his own ships, John Paul Jones let’s go his famous quote: “I have not yet begun to fight!”
To end the battle, two or three from Jones’ crew boards the ship with grenades and, in Death Star-like fashion, they drop grenades down some hatch to the ammo stores. First grenade doesn’t work, second sets off the ammo and about destroys the ship. The British surrender and Jones takes the ship.
I don’t remember the specifics, but they take it somewhere to get repaired, but since it wasn’t flying under a flag, Ben Franklin tried to describe the flag to the people repairing, who made the flag. Thus, the flag of the Serapis (the one in the video) was born.
There’s probably enough inaccuracies in here to give a historian an aneurysm, but it’s hopefully close enough. By far my favorite story in history
What an absolute mad lad.
And wreck lies off Flamborough Head in the North Sea, it is known as the battle of Flamborough Head, folk watched from the cliffs as the battle waged. Americans have had various expeditions trying to find what is left of the wreck, and of course failed, even with the best gear and loads of money chucked at it. By all accounts, it took two days to sink burning all the time and the tides at the head are very fierce so the wreck could be anywhere, or is it?.
That plan sounds like it will go down like a Led Zeppelin!
That's just badass
@@danimayb it’s his world and we’re just living in it
Such good content and animation, love watching these 👏
I knew about this affair, though the source I read called it a "raid". His captaining of the Bonhome Richard and the capture of Serapis will still be his most famous endeavor.
"As a Brit myself, I can confirm that there is literally no social situation that can't be made less awkward by tea - even a kidnapping."
Thoughty2, 2021
Totally disagree.
@@rusko123 please, feel free to expand.
@@christ-abel8774 tea cures all. perhaps we could have a nice cuppa whilst I explain.
@@rusko123 Oh, I see... Please my friend, don't let me stop you. Here ☕☕
Oh, Damn - Can't drink tea.
John Paul Jones "I haven't even begun to fight!" Fuck yeah! Personal hero of mine. Bigger balls than his head.
I don't think he was dumb, just overly ambitious. His plans were sort of working but his men though hahahaha
which head?
... Which explains a lot. LOL
Bigger balls than his head. well 42 just happens to advertise products for balls.....
A most pleasant documentary, sir! I find the relaxation at the pub during the mission quiet humorous! Lack of discipline.....🤣👍
okay that was a great video thru-out , good job !
you absolutely murdered the pronunciation of Kirkcudbright
I'm wondering if it was ever pronounced that way.
I was always told it was "Kerrkubree" ?
@@fredericksaxton3991 That's it
@@Conmac1888 Thank you. I am half Scot on my mothers side and I took my aunt & uncle up there 12 years ago and was sure it was pronounced that way. :)
@@fredericksaxton3991 i live 9 miles away from it it’s kirk cu bray
I was expecting some sort of Leeroy Jenkins attempt at failure, but it sounds like the madlad almost managed it... Only to be foiled by a hitchhiking Irishman.
And lollygagging sailors
That's awesome, the Ranger was built a few hundred yards from where I was born , the Jone Paul Jones house where he stayed during its building is about midway between the port and the old Portsmouth NH hospital.
Always watch your Videos. Love them. Thanks for being there for us😊
It must have been fun as hell to a part of the crew for the Ranger
I always like to think it would have been fun but most likely being on a ship during that time would have sucked. A lot.
@@CaffeineConnoisseurs stinky, for sure
I love how you kept confusing backstreet boys and Nsync.
I love that you can distinguish between them.
To me they may as well be the same group.
I never noticed. :)
is there any other way? 😁
Lol is there a difference?
Lol is there a difference?
Your narration is second to none. The way you present the stories is brilliant. I could watch your videos all day long.
Kirkcudbright? It hurt my ears.
That was incredible. I have been an American (USA) and history is my favorite subject, for decades and I have never heard this tale yet. Great work, buddy! Is why I and anyone else should contribute, if even a few $1's .... 5, 10. It goes far to keeping true facts really alive. This is an amazing time. ^^
Learn about the British empire and the Spanish empire they is way more history to them nations
Your videos literally are so amazing it’s not easy to make storytelling as entertaining as you do been binging your videos for days can’t get enough
Amazing content! Congrats on your skill of finding recourses and making great videos.
When thoughty2 mentioned the beer thing, it all started to make sense. The pieces of the puzzle came together.
Your recent videos really are very enjoying. Love it
Love it. You're a joy to watch sir and have a peculiarly apt humor. Thank you eternally for all your efforts.
Really interesting and entertaining. That 1999 backstreet boys legit got me haha
I just signed up for that curiosity stream, that shiz is awesome! I’m watching this channel on my ipad and got that running 4K on my tv, gon though it all now and theres A LOT of stuff in there. I have not affiliation with them or this channel lol, but if youre into that sorta stuff too, def worth it
John Paul Jones was a Scots man. He came from Southerness a village a few miles from the small town of Dumfries.
As being from near whitehaven (workington) it's mad to hear this guy talking about this town after watching him for about 5 years
This is hilarious!😂 I can just imagine a crazy comedy film done about this.
could you just imagine. thats what i thought about as well. would be a real hoot
You listening Terry Jones?
Yakety sax has to play for the whole thing
It would make a fantastic film!
It's a bit like painting a submarine pink....lol
I never knew about this little chapter in the Revolutionary War, interesting.
Would love to see a video about the English Armada (or Counter Armada).
I've never heard this piece of history. Thanks. Loved it.
I'm glad we're allies. Worked with some great Black Watch soldiers in iraq!
1:51 - That was a _justified_ retaliation for the Spice Girls World Tour in '98...
"He attacked with a single ship."
Me: "Dude thinks he's a video game protagonist lol."
Fantastic video, the only wee gripe, is that Kirkudbright is pronounced.... KUR-COOD-BRAY, (said quite fast) hehe.... Great and informative video, really enjoyed the vid 👍👍
I could binge-watching your videos. It is not only for the historical education but for your incredible mesmerizing accent and
emphasis of words. Man, i love it. Keep going.
JPJ was quite the character. Returning the accidentally stolen silver was just hilarious. Never knew that. BTW, really enjoy your channel.
And he was a decent bassist for Led Zeppelin too!
I absolutely love the way you tell a story! You are so funny!
Interesting and entertaining vid. Just 1 thing to note. You should pronounce Kirkcudbright Kir-coo-brie (thats my attempt at least at typing it phonetically). Coronation Street filmed there years ago with a story of 2 teens eloping and got a bit of stick for saying it the way you did. One of those places pronounced quite a bit different to how it's spelt.
Wow, never heard about this when growing up. They pretty much only teach us about the revolutionary war and the war of 1812. They do a good job at making it look like we never really took an offensive position. Well, you know, apart from the sneak attacks at the beginning.
I just finished this playlist literally 2 minutes ago!
And then you upload ANOTHER episode!
Welp, I can't complain. Love your channel Thoughy2!!!
It's important to note that John Paul Jones was only beginning his Naval carrier at the time and went on to lead many other ships and situations as well as a long stint with the Russian Navy.
Interesting. It appears that American and English history differ a bit on the subject of the naval battle. What about "I have not yet begun to fight."? Also, while the Bonhomme Richard was credited with the kill, there were several other smaller American ships involved.
The USA has sadly negected historical education. This story should be taught! If only for the sure audacity of the attack.
I was literally told this in my 11th grade US history class, the class literally goes from the revolutionary war to the Vietnam war.
@@Griblin1 im glad things have improved. We got basically nothing.
The US isn't neglecting historical education, they're intentionally altering history itself. Neglecting it would be better than the creating lies about it and erasing the truth.
@@Swearengen1980 yeah sadly most countries do that, but we aren’t as bad as what is happening in Japan, they stopped teaching about WW2 all together.
@@Swearengen1980 this was during the early 70s. I'm sure that has been going in even earlier than that. I've since learned a lot on my own since then.
Now THIS would make a great script for a comedy
I can imagine the plot of kidnapping the Earl to be funny.
It would have to be a comedy... because the audience would be laughing anyway even if it were written as a serious documentary
i just want to pause the video and say thank you thoughty for that amazing fact about lighters and matches hahaha.I had no clue. Keep em coming.
I just found this channel. He is fantastic and a great story teller. Is the there any information about the beginning of the channel or who and what puts this together? Nothing is on the home page or community page.
Jones is one of my favorite historical figures. Glad to see a video about him. He's a dude whose name should be as common as Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Absolute madlad.
I’m surprised the Americans didn’t create a holiday for this as well.
We do have a holiday for it. It's called the marine corps birthday.
I'm trying to get Columbus Day replaced by it.
I'm a proud American but I agree that America has way to many holidays
@viaductdreams well ur right on that where I work at we don't get paid holidays so yea ur right
The Americans only needed one, the one when they kicked all the tea, shitte and pride out of your guts for their independence lmfao 🤣.
12:05 banging on the doors of whitehaven...., but the background image is of peterborough
I have never heard this story before. Really a wild and entertaining tale.
I would say that's pretty good for a single ship and drunken crew.
Keep ripping in heaven, John Paul Jones
"You're an angel now" - Oversimplified
so he's farting a lot then
*Valhalla for sure
That they drank in the pub is one of the better military history facts.
omg i nearly spat out my tea, when you did the backstreet boy bit
Lighter was invented before the match.. This is one reason I love this channel
This was like an assassins creed mission. Well Done Aaron!
I'm from Whitehaven! John Paul Jones is well known to us locals! Small town but if passing a visit to the rum story and the beacon is a must. As is food in zest or Georgian house 😊
That was fascinating! Cheers thoughty2
I wasn't expecting that beer raid 😂😂😂
How often have we all nipped into a pub for a quick pint and ended up having 5 followed by a few chasers. It happens 😵
Happens every time. 'Just popped in for a couple then straight home' 5 hours later a few stellas and shorts then the wife walks in with all my clothes in a bin bag,known as being bin bagged
This is so well made!!!
6:42 HELSINKI .. WTF?
A rebel Irishman helping the English? A first and last surely.
he was probably just drunk
Neither a first nor a last. Especially not if he was a Protestant, which would have made him of English or Scottish descent - Daniel Freeman hardly sounds like an "Irish" name. There is, of course, the famous quote of Arthur Wellesley, The Duke of Wellington, who was born in Ireland and was very briefly our Prime Minister: "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse." In history, there were 8 Irish regiments in the "English" military, and still in existence is the Irish Guards.
@@bycromwellshelmet2369 Daniel o Connell said that, not Wellington.
@@Harlemfreeq Thank you for correcting me on this. You are right, O'Connell said this _about_ Wellington.
Don’t worry we don’t condone the Irish in England, your a embarrassment 🤣🤣
John Paul Jones was essentially a pirate.... love the guy :)
Totally insane
I'm British and I recently did a DNA test and I was pleasantly suprised to see so many 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th cousins from all over the United States. We really are family. ❤❤❤
Our Whitehaven Beach in Qld was obviously named after that port! Very extraordinary tale !!! So many ironies haha
Great story! Thanks so much Thoughty2!
Best yet! I've never heard of this, Should be made into a movie.🙂 "Kirkcudbright" is pronounced 'Kirk coob rie'
"The buttler answered. Naturally" xD Epic line.
I never heard about this…adventure! What a ridiculous, ludicrous farce.. 🤣 I loved your humor, BTW. Thanks from a former US sailor. 🤙🏼
If a certain monarch hadn't been as mad as a box of frogs then perhaps our relationship would be even closer.
Trump?
Biden?
I think he means George III
@@Falls628 It could be both though.
@@thisisfarta9693 Could be ya
You have to admit a one man wrecking crew did much more than expected ,John Paul Jones if it weren't for the one turn coat would have been a larger success. Many pirates wouldn't take Irish crew men because of their free nature, as one pirate put it you never know what they will say in the shadows to the crew to make them turn on the captain! However there were many great Irish pirates!
Keep up the great stuff
Between Dark Doc's and you I've learned more history than I have from actually history classes.
Kirkcudbright is pronounced /kɜːrˈkuːbri/ 13:17 (ker-koo-bree)
The only American with the balls to attack Britain was a Brit 🤣
A Scott .😊
@@archnouff7599 still British
Most of our forefathers were British, so this applies to them too. lol
@@optimusmoose9171 TSSS !
How preposterous !!😂😂
But... Isn't America just British colony that just went rouge?
I've always prided myself on my knowledge of so many different kinds of histories, especially technological history. And tonight, I just had all of that pride wrecked by learning that the first "friction" match (traditional stick match you see in a box of matches) was invented three years AFTER the first cigarette lighter! Match AFTER the LIGHTER. you know, the thing that you think of being one of the first things to create the literal FIRST technological discovery of man. Here's how the history goes... fire discovery -somewhere around the early stone age... then cradle of civilization, tons of tribes, then we get all the religions, Egyptians, all African civilizations, Rome and Greece do their things, Europe goes crazy with power, America pops up, James Monroe takes office and BAM, cigarette lighter pops up for the first time out of nowhere, and then... THEN, after John Quincy Adams is elected as America's SIXTH president, someone FINALLY invented the stick match? Who you ask? It doesn't matter. It came WAY too late! lol bravo Thoughty2! You've broken my brain! lol