i made medic's overheal limitless

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  • Опубліковано 21 тра 2022
  • Music: BananaSlug - Isolation & Dusk ( / user-426347780 )
    channel discord --- / discord
    channel patreon --- / shounic
    channel tracker --- trello.com/b/L3B65jUX
    [ todo list / current progress on upcoming videos / channel roadmap ]
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    custom files --- pastebin.com/raw/e32aG4nP
    [ hud / crosshairs / hitsound / killsound / gfx cfg ]
    big thanks to:
    doomy for plugin!
    old title:
    "what if medic overheals had no limit? tf2 gameplay experiment"
    FAQ:
    Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
    A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations).
  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1 тис.

  • @shounic
    @shounic  2 роки тому +2268

    (the experiment is over, you can't play it anymore. there is no server)

    • @rappah.experience
      @rappah.experience 2 роки тому +3

      Nice

    • @Vex2not
      @Vex2not 2 роки тому +2

      Nice

    • @hamstreak5591
      @hamstreak5591 2 роки тому +9

      Hey Shounic, I have an idea. How would I go about talking to you about this idea?

    • @douk3395
      @douk3395 2 роки тому

      no i won't play your shitty server

    • @gamainiax
      @gamainiax 2 роки тому +1

      Nice

  • @willstob
    @willstob 2 роки тому +4797

    "The Spy wound up being a support class, trying to take people down with sneaky backstabs."
    So, a Spy?

    • @hunlepto2239
      @hunlepto2239 2 роки тому +153

      Unless it would be Swipez.

    • @sposeidon2374
      @sposeidon2374 Рік тому +261

      @@hunlepto2239 or any other spy main that actually knows how players move

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 Рік тому +59

      @@hunlepto2239 Swipez the power class

    • @NetworkSneed
      @NetworkSneed Рік тому +186

      Hmm yes. The spy here is made out of spy.

    • @megumin9020
      @megumin9020 Рік тому +82

      Tf2 player remarking that spy is actually a class that is not agresive

  • @Jpmrocks7
    @Jpmrocks7 2 роки тому +5078

    To be honest, I'm not too surprised by the phlog being on top. The phlog's biggest weakness is that the pyro cant defend himself. He has no airblast, or he essentially has to facetank everything, or stealth as hard as spy. Taking away the concern of HP makes the phlog easily the best choice. This is also why phlog pyros usually are always with a medic, because they really struggle when alone.

    • @henryambrose8607
      @henryambrose8607 2 роки тому +352

      Quick fix was also unsurprising. Its downside was the overheal cap, and with how important knockback becomes with high-health pyros, the quick fix uber is more important than invuln.

    • @bruschetta7711
      @bruschetta7711 2 роки тому +96

      In Pub phlog is genuelly one of the strongest weapons and can make pyro easily the best for uber pushes
      Only counter would be knockback, surprised there weren't many Demoman with loose cannon, it is great for pushing back enemies, coupled with a barrage of bullets coming from sentries they could make a wall
      However the quickfix specifically negates knockback, so as soon as a medic uses the charge it's over

    • @WafflesMoguMogu
      @WafflesMoguMogu 2 роки тому +4

      I didn't know u play Tf2 jpmrocks

    • @SpectreSkirt
      @SpectreSkirt 2 роки тому +3

      i honestly thought soldier or demo would be on top, both having high mobility at the cost of HP and insane blast damage.

    • @Dark_Slayer3000
      @Dark_Slayer3000 2 роки тому +14

      @@bruschetta7711 it's because the quick fix übers deny knockback

  • @MyWaifuNow
    @MyWaifuNow 2 роки тому +1362

    "he ended up being a support role that would come in for surprise backstabs"
    ah yes the spy is made of spy

    • @realdragon
      @realdragon Рік тому +133

      Spy tactics changed drastically from sneaky backstabs to sneaky backstabs

    • @Jeffrey_LOL-vi9wy
      @Jeffrey_LOL-vi9wy 5 місяців тому +7

      Sneaky-er backstab

    • @TinyDeskEngineer
      @TinyDeskEngineer 28 днів тому

      They have to be sneakier due to the decreased amount of enemy players busy being dead

  • @DaxMarko
    @DaxMarko 2 роки тому +3111

    "If people look at you, you can't backstab them"
    Spy mains: "Hon hon that's where you're wrong sir"

    • @davisdf3064
      @davisdf3064 2 роки тому +341

      TF2's hitboxes: FUCK IT! I am looking back now.

    • @jamesbourbon5129
      @jamesbourbon5129 2 роки тому +35

      you just bad lol, facestab almost never happen , except of bad ping or interp

    • @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927
      @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 2 роки тому +285

      @@jamesbourbon5129 well done, you’ve described every interaction I had with a
      Spy “main”. Bad ping and cl interp

    • @sektaxd
      @sektaxd 2 роки тому +63

      @@joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 you know some trickstabs dont need any ping or interp abuse to pull off so i think it just depends what spy main you are talking to

    • @zappodude7591
      @zappodude7591 2 роки тому +50

      Actually what I've found more common than straight facestabs is "scalp-stabs" or "shoulder-stabs" where the spy is definitely not behind you, with even the backstab animation visible when you die, but maybe it wouldn't be with the default FOV of 70. It's possible the janky hit detection is partially due to valve testing the game at 70 FOV.

  • @MartinGenerations
    @MartinGenerations 2 роки тому +3648

    Also, Quick-fix has immunity to knockback, so Pyros cannot airblast you at all.

  • @azse8524
    @azse8524 2 роки тому +260

    "he ended up being a support class that came in for surprising backstabs"
    HMMM ALMOST AS IF THAT WAS HIS INTENDED ROLE

  • @bernardonegri5416
    @bernardonegri5416 2 роки тому +1886

    Phlog pyro also has a major advantage over heavy: he is faster. Pyro's normal limitation of not being able to approach without getting wrecked by anyone with hitscan is fixed because he has thousands of hp. Since everyone has thousands of hp, charging the phlog is super easy.

    • @Markiz93
      @Markiz93 2 роки тому +18

      Imagiene what if the Heavy use Natascha and he will be able to slow down a Pyro.

    • @bernardonegri5416
      @bernardonegri5416 2 роки тому +28

      @@Markiz93 Then another pyro shows up.

    • @asan4628
      @asan4628 2 роки тому

      Pyro>Heavy

    • @shoeofobama6091
      @shoeofobama6091 2 роки тому +1

      also, demo probably should have taken precedence, demo has the higher EFFECTIVE dps

    • @bernardonegri5416
      @bernardonegri5416 2 роки тому +23

      @@shoeofobama6091 In normal TF2, he has the highest damage output. His long reload means he might not be able to get anything done, even after using and hitting all 12 explosives. No reload weapons are where it is at.

  • @yoshifan2334
    @yoshifan2334 2 роки тому +678

    Also something that should be noted is the oft overlooked stats of flamethrowers that decreases healing recurved while on fire, so in a realistic situation of two combos running into each other, the phlog has the additional advantage of hamstringing enemy regeneration during the fight

    • @VagueCastle649
      @VagueCastle649 2 роки тому +2

      It also bonks vacc ubers.

    • @luigifan4585
      @luigifan4585 2 роки тому +10

      @@VagueCastle649 it's still resisting damage since the penalty doesn't completely negate Vacc res

    • @mr.pickle6487
      @mr.pickle6487 2 роки тому +2

      @@gab936 but there's no limit, even the quick fix has an overheal penalty.

    • @warden6290
      @warden6290 2 роки тому +10

      @@mr.pickle6487 the problem is that vac builds overheal EXTREMELY slow

    • @cewla3348
      @cewla3348 Рік тому +1

      @@luigifan4585 while vacc normally ignores phlog like "why is there an angry child" you do not have permanent vacc uber

  • @ryandunham3951
    @ryandunham3951 2 роки тому +510

    One thing not considered that affected this meta was that fire damage applies a passive penalty to all healing beams, limiting the ammount of incoming health. Slowing input of overheal in general allows for a quicker kill time for the side with a pyro in a situation with two identical med combos fighting alongside non-identical teammate comps.

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- Місяць тому

      Is there actually a penalty? Or is it just because afterburn is the opposite of healing

    • @pointyyou
      @pointyyou Місяць тому +3

      ​@@-RandomStranger- pretty sure healing from medi-guns is decreased after having taken damage recently, so afterburn sorta keeps that decrease active for much longer

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- Місяць тому +1

      @@pointyyou yeah, that what I meant

  • @aneasteregg8171
    @aneasteregg8171 2 роки тому +776

    I feel like the spy's impact is being underrated here. Sure, they may not always get kills, but every time they did made a huge difference since they were instantly deleting thousands of HP that would have taken far longer to do for anyone else, during which time they'd be dealing damage back themselves.

    • @rainchopper898
      @rainchopper898 2 роки тому +240

      Also all the clips he showed he was literally trying to facestab people, in a match with competent players, wound up heavy will always get trickstabbed, and phlog taunt will always get trickstabbed. Also kunai steals health. If there is no heal limit from backstab, 1 backstab and spy becomes literally unkillable again.

    • @twohomiesplayingjojogames6748
      @twohomiesplayingjojogames6748 2 роки тому +70

      Kunai cloak and dagger. Sit in a corner wait for an overhealed enemy to pass and BAM

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 роки тому +92

      Spy really does not seem good in a gamemode where everyone is playing Pyro.

    • @yapflipthegrunt4687
      @yapflipthegrunt4687 2 роки тому +8

      @@rainchopper898 x10 spy

    • @abicto
      @abicto 2 роки тому +22

      @@rainchopper898 the kunai didnt break the overheal cap
      only mediguns did

  • @d4cto
    @d4cto 2 роки тому +554

    I wonder, if the sniper's rifle charge meter was removed as well, would everyone charge the rifle for two minutes to be able to oneshot bodyshot a heavy or would everyone use and charge huntsman for a few seconds before shooting?

    • @kerbonaut2059
      @kerbonaut2059 2 роки тому +192

      Sit for 2 minutes
      Anti materiel rifle

    • @somerandomgamer8504
      @somerandomgamer8504 2 роки тому +52

      I'll get my Pro Killstreak Classic out! It's hunting season!

    • @widecat1404
      @widecat1404 2 роки тому +14

      @Aidan Eaglesfield that's true, but the huntsman charges significantly faster than any other sniper primary so it would still probably be the best

    • @connor2094
      @connor2094 2 роки тому +23

      2 min build up and then miss...

    • @he3004
      @he3004 2 роки тому +16

      Sydney sleeper would be the meta as charge would increase both the damage and the jarates duration and it also charges 25% faster, and you also wouldn't have to wait much even with other rifles
      Idk how long is the charge but let's assume 5 seconds, in 5 seconds you increase your damage from 50 to 150, so in theory you would need to sit in place for only 12.5 seconds to oneshot any class without a medic and 20 seconds to oneshot a full overheal heavy, if they go vac and steel fist you would need to wait 375 seconds, so you can oneshot anything in about 6 minutes but average vacc uber lasts about 3-4 seconds so this is very extreme
      Note: I also don't remember the exact resistance vac gives so feel free to correct me

  • @appliedatoms7066
    @appliedatoms7066 2 роки тому +1088

    Yes, this is complete hell. But on the upside sniper is completely neutered. So it's not all bad.
    Now I just want this comboed with the last experiment.

    • @Octobeann
      @Octobeann 2 роки тому +72

      phlog+quick fix+ubersaw/knife scout

    • @gabriel4lyfeanimations497
      @gabriel4lyfeanimations497 2 роки тому +1

      100th like

    • @vinnae
      @vinnae 2 роки тому +46

      Worth it for that Kiwi to get relegated to nothingness.

    • @redline841
      @redline841 2 роки тому +4

      And Medic has more game

    • @Llortor
      @Llortor 2 роки тому

      Quake 1 Ranger vs Davoth

  • @jvbutalid8316
    @jvbutalid8316 2 роки тому +88

    "I held my viewers at gunpoint and politely asked them to participate in the experiment."
    - shounic, 2022
    providing context is prohibited lol

  • @josephrichardson7254
    @josephrichardson7254 2 роки тому +254

    Being one of the participants, that end clip of everyone dousing the middle point in fire, scrambling around to make something work was the perfect embodiment of this experiment. But it was honestly one of the most fun things I've done in TF2. Maybe it's because I'm braindead, that is a possibility.

    • @Simboiss
      @Simboiss 2 роки тому +23

      This experiment have shown that changing just one single variable can completely disrupt the delicate balance between TF2 classes.

    • @tappajaav
      @tappajaav Рік тому +3

      @@Simboiss Cue warowl "negev became the meta"

  • @Mabra51
    @Mabra51 2 роки тому +63

    "backstabs only work if you stab their back"
    If only it were that simple...

    • @MrJohn8apie
      @MrJohn8apie Рік тому +6

      ikr, I was waiting for the gag clip the whole time he circled the pyro

    • @Soapromancer
      @Soapromancer 14 днів тому

      Most trickstabs boil down to moving weirdly to get people to walk in front of you.

    • @Mabra51
      @Mabra51 14 днів тому

      @@Soapromancer I was referring to facestabs and stabbing the air 1 meter in front of your target.
      It just works.

  • @lacerda5081
    @lacerda5081 2 роки тому +226

    Idea: Everyone can use the Spy's disguise kit

    • @pogobod2128
      @pogobod2128 2 роки тому +46

      Well bruh just use pyro

    • @StilvurBee
      @StilvurBee 2 роки тому +48

      i'm picturing fan'o'war scouts disguising as enemy scouts and instantly melee and meatshotting every class

    • @BasicallyGoblin
      @BasicallyGoblin 2 роки тому +2

      @shounic we need this.

    • @Rodrigo-kq3js
      @Rodrigo-kq3js 5 місяців тому +2

      now everyone can use the weakest, most useless feature of spy, and on top of that, its now even more useless because everyone knows everyone has it! ricetong

  • @StickMaster500
    @StickMaster500 2 роки тому +303

    This experiment just turns any class into a Saxton Hale Boss

  • @adamdahlstrom2095
    @adamdahlstrom2095 2 роки тому +137

    Seeing a Brass Beast with 2k HP would be SCARY

    • @funny_starman
      @funny_starman 2 роки тому +58

      ''You can't hurt me Jack''

    • @GewelReal
      @GewelReal 2 роки тому +9

      Then Phlog renders it completely useless

    • @Nyxael5845
      @Nyxael5845 2 роки тому +15

      MvM Heavy Giants: *Am I a joke to you?*

    • @temkin9298
      @temkin9298 2 роки тому

      @@GewelReal If a coordinated spy team of 2 is there phlog's taunt would result in a immediate neutralization.

  • @brocksteele7475
    @brocksteele7475 Рік тому +31

    Interesting how, in a meta FULL of pyros, the Spy still manages to carve a niche for himself.

  • @dclc
    @dclc 2 роки тому +40

    ... then tf2 becomes hell itself

    • @moronichybrid
      @moronichybrid Рік тому +3

      Why are you implying that this experiment made TF2 hell?
      It always was.

  • @LyritZian
    @LyritZian 2 роки тому +87

    You should have mentioned that afterburn also reduces direct Medic healing by 20%, making it easier to fight the overheal buildup.

  • @JillofTrades
    @JillofTrades 2 роки тому +10

    0:37 Spy: *8k health*
    Pyro: Letme fix that *airblasts off cliff*

  • @botboy3603
    @botboy3603 10 місяців тому +13

    I can imagine the Kunai being absolutely overpowered in this mode. The more stabs he gets, the more health he gets, and everyone has more health to give to him

    • @soundrogue4472
      @soundrogue4472 9 місяців тому +1

      Actually Kunai Spy isn't that powerful in this mode.

  • @SirPembertonS.Crevalius
    @SirPembertonS.Crevalius 2 роки тому +39

    I'd love to see an all melee battle with just pans where everyone has 1k+ health lol.

  • @dasuperbeefman
    @dasuperbeefman 9 місяців тому +5

    "this pyro is at full health. if i heal hi-"
    "nuh uh *equips back scratcher* "
    "well shi- *video ends* "

  • @EzioAuditore9655
    @EzioAuditore9655 2 роки тому +138

    Impressive. I thought most kills would be done with airblast into fall.

    • @femboyvincent2917
      @femboyvincent2917 2 роки тому +30

      @@gab936 environmental kills

    • @the8bitclicker_193
      @the8bitclicker_193 2 роки тому +14

      @@gab936 environmental kills, like cliffs in Higher Tower or Upward, those are instant-killers, he wasn't talking about fall damage.
      Though I can't blame you for misunderstanding, I read this comment and couldn't understand at first

    • @scantyer
      @scantyer 2 роки тому +4

      most good maps don't have cliffs sadly

  • @cameronballz6154
    @cameronballz6154 Рік тому +6

    0:51 viewers guess what the meta would be without overheal limit.
    Me: medic...because overheal

  • @bbdanny
    @bbdanny 2 роки тому +35

    i was expecting airblast to be total meta just for the sheer area denial it had, anyone with basic knowledge or airblast mechanics can could easily defend the last point on attack defend and to an extent on payload

    • @comrademuds1951
      @comrademuds1951 2 роки тому +24

      Problem is quick fix negates airblast

    • @bbdanny
      @bbdanny 2 роки тому +3

      @@comrademuds1951 oh yeah, i totally forgot about that

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 роки тому +4

      That, and the flamethrower's flame-throwing range is longer than the airblast's air-blasting range.

    • @Chorismos
      @Chorismos 2 роки тому

      @@kubaGR8 this isn't true.

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 роки тому +3

      @@Chorismos The video showed otherwise. Flamethrower range is longer by a few hammer units.

  • @SnipingIsAGoodJobMate
    @SnipingIsAGoodJobMate 2 роки тому +20

    5:15
    The game devolved into a regular casual match

    • @appliedatoms7066
      @appliedatoms7066 2 роки тому +8

      nowhere near enough snipers

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 Рік тому

      Lies, the 4000h Sniper and the 6 gibus spies aren't present

    • @blacklight683
      @blacklight683 Рік тому

      @@appliedatoms7066 ok now that you said that it seems that this makes the game more balanced

    • @appliedatoms7066
      @appliedatoms7066 Рік тому +3

      @@blacklight683 balanced? No. More fun without instant death from across the map because you moved toward the objective? Yes.

    • @blacklight683
      @blacklight683 Рік тому

      @@appliedatoms7066 indeed, I hate sniper and this makes dealing with him much eazier

  • @AzNZinc
    @AzNZinc 2 роки тому +25

    i would've thought being able to safely drain hp from a range via demoman or kritzing a demo would still be good strategy due to high damage output and knockback.
    phlog is a no brainer as insane hp covers 90% of the weaknesses of phlog

    • @mr.pickle6487
      @mr.pickle6487 2 роки тому +1

      Crit Scottish resistance. Mvm style.

  • @TheL0rd0fSpace
    @TheL0rd0fSpace 2 роки тому +25

    I wonder how this experiment would work, if it were tweaked a bit (to make it more like a deliberate decision Valve might've made).
    Like, what if the overheal was uncapped, but starting at 150% health, slowed down linearly, so while you could heal indefinitely, it would eventually be weaker than an enemy's damage? Obviously, you'd have to plateau the slope at some point, or you'd just effectively create a new health cap.
    The slope doesn't need to be steep, just enough so that 12 Quick Fix medics all healing each other don't effectively tank everything in the game.

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 5 місяців тому

      Being On Fire already penalizes healing, which is another factor in the Phlog's prominence, its does obscene damage and stunts healing effectively

  • @H.A.L9000
    @H.A.L9000 2 роки тому +7

    0:26 medigun point

  • @Sangheilitat117
    @Sangheilitat117 2 роки тому +5

    That spy gameplay at 3:00 is physically painful to watch lmao

  • @octzed
    @octzed 2 роки тому +3

    hey ma I'm on camera! 5:13
    this was as fun as it was unfun. thanks for hosting ridiculous alternative universe tf2 scenarios though!

  • @rickywalters7717
    @rickywalters7717 2 роки тому +2

    4:16 God i just love this clip. I don't know why, but I love it.

  • @harvuy3817
    @harvuy3817 2 роки тому +17

    Here is an experiment idea:
    Only crit and mini-crit attacks can deal damage
    I think it would be interesting to see how this change will affect the role of each class

    • @sasatofe7707
      @sasatofe7707 2 роки тому +3

      bye demoknight
      hi sniperknight

    • @bruschetta7711
      @bruschetta7711 2 роки тому +2

      Random crits on or off?

    • @NotSnak
      @NotSnak 2 роки тому +14

      Piss rifle jarate snipers are now the ultimate support

    • @harvuy3817
      @harvuy3817 2 роки тому +3

      @@bruschetta7711 off

    • @e-cap1239
      @e-cap1239 2 роки тому +10

      -Crit-a-cola and Fan-o-war Scout
      -Kritzkreig or Uber or Vaccinator Medic
      -Trolldier with the buff banner
      -Spy with Ambassador
      -Sniper with Jarate and either stock or the Sydney sleeper
      -Pyro, using either the Phlog or the Backburner along with the Scorch shot or Flare gun (provided there is afterburn that deals no damage so he can combo)
      -Heavy with the Buffalo Steak Sandwich and KGB
      -Engineer's buildings are immune to crit damage and the sentry will still cause knockback
      -Demoknight might be useful?

  • @plasticballs
    @plasticballs 2 роки тому +4

    3:45 the zombie escape players must've had a field day with this one

  • @knightsolaire5351
    @knightsolaire5351 2 місяці тому +1

    I love the recurring theme of if you change anything at all the phlog becomes broken

  • @thelegalsystem
    @thelegalsystem 2 роки тому +28

    I'm curious how this would go if everything was the same BUT Medics couldn't receive overheal (and maybe if overheal decayed faster)

    • @rainboroad
      @rainboroad Рік тому +5

      if you can recall how overwatch was on release, it would be like that. everyone on the enemy team dives onto the medic, and they die, lest, the medic will simply live and that wins by default

  • @kronkrian100
    @kronkrian100 2 роки тому +6

    I feel like demo could have a niche role in this gamemode, if your aim is good enough that is. You can use pipes and stickies in a defensive situation to knock up Pyros and Medics in the air and waste their time. This combines nicely with a sentry - demo lifts the enemy up and the sentry blasts them away. There is also the sticky trap, which despite doing relatively insignificant damage at uncapped overheal is still a nice source of burst, especially if the stickies are critzed.
    Alternatively you could run demoknight with the Chargin Targe for that 50% resistance to fire damage and the Skullcutter with a pocket vaccinator medic on your ass 24/7.
    Admittedly a very niche pick overall, but I am surprised no one thought of trying it.

    • @BComet
      @BComet 2 роки тому +6

      Sadly, the quickfix neutralizes knockback, so pushing folks around with stickies is out of question.
      However, I think that fully critted stickbomb traps could have a chance of killing someone.

  • @aqua2k210
    @aqua2k210 2 роки тому +5

    2:15 something important to note about game metas is that metas are defined by 2 things.
    1. Is is easy to do?
    2. Is it a guaranteed win against other strategies?

  • @Artician
    @Artician 2 роки тому +4

    1:25 What playing spy looks like

  • @rodakdev
    @rodakdev 2 роки тому

    I loved to try this out, thanks for the experience!!

  • @whereami.
    @whereami. 2 роки тому +5

    damn, this experiment would’ve been really fun to play as spy

  • @quadconjures
    @quadconjures 2 роки тому +3

    Interesting to see the plog so consistently come up in these extreme experiments

  • @fortnitesexman
    @fortnitesexman 2 роки тому +2

    1:19
    never heard of face stabs eh? the sheer amount of times i've been backstabbed while looking at the spy rivals the run time of "empire" from 1964

  • @Degenerate04
    @Degenerate04 2 роки тому +4

    What's funny to me is that in every single one of these types of videos, the phlog always finds a way to be involved in the meta somehow.

  • @itchylol742
    @itchylol742 2 роки тому +7

    Don't forget the part where phlog pyros could get thousands of health then spawncamp enemies who only spawned with default health 🔥

  • @johannesneumayer6041
    @johannesneumayer6041 Рік тому +1

    „Backstabs only work if you stab their back.“
    Yes, the floor is made out of floor.

  • @GreatFox42
    @GreatFox42 2 роки тому

    I love these videos where you change one thing about the game design or code, just to see what happens and subsequently discover why it was made the way it was.

  • @GraveUypo
    @GraveUypo 2 роки тому +10

    but what if overhealing slowly tappered off after 150%. like, healing got slower in a log curve that effectively flattened at 600% hp (at this point heals are just 1 hp per second)

  • @sluggknight7130
    @sluggknight7130 Рік тому +4

    Hey shounic, maybe you could try an experiment that replaces the dead ringer activation noise to when you kill the spy instead of when he decides to decloak after the activation

  • @TheAweDude1
    @TheAweDude1 Рік тому +2

    I really love these types of experiments. It does make me wonder about other things like:
    1) What if Engineer could build an unlimited number of buildings?
    2) What if every weapon in their respective slot was combined (Medic has a melee weapon with -32.5% swing speed, -10 max health, but allowed you to see enemy HP, build uber on hit and retain uber when dead)?
    3) Everybody had infinite double jumps?
    4) All weapons had reversed damage fall off, like the Crusader's Crossbow?

  • @RioManegos
    @RioManegos 2 роки тому

    I like these experimental 'what if we change or removing a mechanic' ideas.

  • @henrybadger785
    @henrybadger785 2 роки тому +19

    I’m 1:19 in and I’m gonna guess the best class to overheal will be engineer. Considering he can pick up his sentry, protecting it.
    Edit: *oh.*

  • @apxprdtr_mge
    @apxprdtr_mge 2 роки тому +5

    I'd like to think I have decent aim. Much better at flicking than tracking though. But I just can't fathom how the heavy loses that mge match, with the health buffed for both. Stock minigun does about as much as kritz phlog, how is this even a contest. Maybe you should have tried some pro heavy players for this experiment. Interesting nevertheless.

    • @calsalitra4689
      @calsalitra4689 2 роки тому +1

      Despite the the Heavy being good at close range, it's becomes a pain to hit an enemy at point-blank range. I've experienced this personally with Scouts, once they get into melee range a good Scout can make it almost impossible to see them, let alone hit them. While Pyro's aren't as fast as Scouts are, they're still easily fast enough to make a Heavy miss most of their shots, maybe half of the Heavy's shots at least. When the Pyro keeps their full DPS while the Heavy loses most of it, the Pyro can easily come out on top.
      Still, I agree that it would be interesting to see how a professional Heavy would do against a professional Pyro. I assume that the Heavy's improved aim would scale better than a Pyro's improved movement, but I just don't see what a Heavy can do against a Pyro that starts hugging them.
      EDIT: Thinking about it, it would also be interesting to do a test between 6 2000 HP Heavy's and 6 2000 HP Pyro's. That kind of experiment would give a more concrete conclusion on which one wins.

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 роки тому

      They're both buffed to the same health, so the Heavy no longer has an advantage, while still being very, very slow and having a larger hitbox.
      The Pyro has the same 2k health, but a smaller hitbox and a much better movement speed, allowing him to dodge better.

    • @tragedyplustime8271
      @tragedyplustime8271 2 роки тому

      Ngl, that Heavy sucks at tracking. I could understand if the other player was a Scout, but there's a reason Heavy counters Pyro: If a Heavy KNOWS how to track, Pyro is toast.
      So really, Heavy should be meta (As he is with Medic normally), it's just shounic couldn't find good Heavy players.

    • @kubaGR8
      @kubaGR8 2 роки тому

      @@tragedyplustime8271 the reason Heavy counters Pyro is because he has twice as much health and much more DPS than the Pyro
      When both have 2000 HP, the health advantage is gone, and with the Phlog, so is the DPS advantage. But the Heavy also is much slower and has a bigger hitbox, putting him at a further disadvantage because the Pyro can easily get max flamethrower ramp-up.

    • @tragedyplustime8271
      @tragedyplustime8271 2 роки тому

      @@kubaGR8 The Phlog doesn't have a dps close to the Natacha, let alone Stock or Brass Beast.
      Hitbox doesn't matter if the Heavy ACTUALLY knows how to track. His speed doesn't matter because the minigun's aiming speed is the same as any other weapon.

  • @meowmix_tv
    @meowmix_tv 10 місяців тому

    man this looks so fun

  • @blukat9903
    @blukat9903 2 роки тому

    This is so beautiful

  • @SunshineAIC
    @SunshineAIC 2 роки тому +3

    You dont have to "brute force" a "facestab," you can move correctly to get a backstab the same way you can dodge as scout or juke as medic or use any melee for that matter.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 роки тому

      @@VioletSteel13 Everyone has their own definition of what a facestab is. Most spies just call stabs trickstabs, unless it looked like it shouldn't have been a stab, at which point it's a facestab. But in technical terms, those facestabs don't exist since hitreg is consistent even if it doesn't always look like it to the naked eye.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 роки тому

      @@VioletSteel13 What is it is legit on the spy's end? Facestab implies it shouldnt have counted, but that definition is really meaningless since every stab which counted should have counted if you define backstab the same as hitreg does.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 роки тому

      @@VioletSteel13 but it has nothing to do with hitboxes. it's lag compensation working as intended

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 роки тому

      ​@@VioletSteel13
      What does it mean to look? Looking requires the dimension of time, which due to how the game is networked only really has a meaning when you observe it from the perspective of a defined observer. If you go to a different observer, their perception of time is different. That's how lag works. Time becomes relative and players see different things.
      Valve made the intentional design choice to calculate hitreg based on the attacker's view, which is why "facestabs" are fully intentional game design. It would be much more unfair if the attacker had to predict to what to them is in the future.

    • @habl844
      @habl844 2 роки тому

      @@VioletSteel13 You can't have both. You can either have hitreg based on the attacker's view or the opponent's view. Valve intentionally chose to go with the attacker's view, which makes facestabs intentional game design.

  • @AndrewChumKaser
    @AndrewChumKaser 2 роки тому +7

    It's worth mentioning that pyro's flames also reduce healing, effectively cutting down the ammount of HP the classes have.

  • @0m7_
    @0m7_ 7 місяців тому +1

    As a quick-fix medic main, this would be a dream come true

  • @MeesterTweester
    @MeesterTweester 2 роки тому

    I love these meta experiments

  • @peakwoop
    @peakwoop 2 роки тому +3

    Comp players boutta go nuts

  • @trbz_8745
    @trbz_8745 2 роки тому +9

    Kritzkrieg Brass Beast probably would have been a really strong niche strat since it can far outrange and outdamage phlog, if only for 8 seconds

    • @octzed
      @octzed 2 роки тому +3

      I tried (you can see me in the video using the kritzkrieg). It doesn't work because phlog crits charge MUCH faster than kritzkrieg, and also heavy's low mobility makes it difficult to chase down pyros and do optimal damage.

    • @nicholasdarrylh.9062
      @nicholasdarrylh.9062 2 роки тому

      so basically heavy is the new sniper

  • @akirakaminari8161
    @akirakaminari8161 2 роки тому

    these videos are incredibly interesting to see how the meta instantly shifts when game mechanics change.

  • @gregorykopylov5633
    @gregorykopylov5633 2 роки тому +2

    4:23 I love how the scout shrugs as if saying that the crit revolver shots don't do anything to him.

    • @AnderJaxi
      @AnderJaxi Рік тому +1

      Scout: This is fine.

  • @BecCallow1471
    @BecCallow1471 2 роки тому +5

    So the ultimate takeaway from this is, if any class could use any weapon then Scout + Phlog is so strong it warps the meta around it, and if overheal isn't capped then Phlog becomes the core of the meta.
    I'll let everyone else come to their own conclusions, but this tells me that the Pyro's limitations are what holds the Phlog back.

    • @nicholasdarrylh.9062
      @nicholasdarrylh.9062 2 роки тому +3

      the phlog is probably sentient and uses pyro as a mind-controlled slave

    • @KopperNeoman
      @KopperNeoman 2 роки тому +3

      Shocking.
      Almost like how Scout speed is overpowered on Heavy.
      Almost as if classes are deliberately balanced or something.

    • @BecCallow1471
      @BecCallow1471 2 роки тому +2

      @@KopperNeoman That refers to class abilities, though. My point is that the Phlog is should probably be nerfed to mini-crits, if it's so precariously balanced.

    • @thebushbros6626
      @thebushbros6626 Рік тому

      @@BecCallow1471 The fact that you think mini crits on the phlog is balanced just shows that you have no idea how balance works.

  • @otherwasp
    @otherwasp 2 роки тому +5

    i wonder if a spy disguised as a medic on his own team, using the kunai would be very good, since people might not expect it to be a spy since medics are trying to do melee a lot and the enemy would be able to burn a medic normally. also, if the kunai gives you 3000 overheal for killing an overhealed enemy, it could be pretty good

  • @rainsf0rd
    @rainsf0rd 2 роки тому

    Awesome video man

  • @FireThePyroYT
    @FireThePyroYT Рік тому

    learning that all these experiments return to the plog is like learning that animals keep evolving into crabs

  • @XDRosenheim
    @XDRosenheim 2 роки тому +4

    00:09 - "This temporary health, is capped at 850%"
    Are you sure about that?

    • @M22-locust01
      @M22-locust01 7 місяців тому +1

      "A hundred and fifty percent" not "eight hundred and fifty percent"

  • @lukamtc9188
    @lukamtc9188 2 роки тому +31

    "The problem with spy is that you have to stand behind them, which is hard when people are looking at you"
    The solution there, it seems to me, is to play the fucking class as its supposed to be played.

    • @henryambrose8607
      @henryambrose8607 2 роки тому +17

      I think the point is that while spy can work, it's not going to be the main combat class, and still serves the same role it always did, with the added difficulty of there being pyros everywhere.

    • @M4x_P0w3r
      @M4x_P0w3r 2 роки тому +6

      Alright. Try to do that in a server full of pyros

    • @endlesstrash4718
      @endlesstrash4718 2 роки тому +2

      @@henryambrose8607 in addition because people have so much health fights last longer and and up as blobs when normally people end up dying and moving around and running to the fights more. This means the chance of finding a lone player or group that doesn't have a pyro flame-checking player drops significantly meaning you have way less potential lone or unprotected targets even if you're looking for them.

    • @GabrielAKAFinn
      @GabrielAKAFinn 2 роки тому

      How are you going to do that when hydrocephalus pyro players are holding down m1 and spinning their view like monkeys?

    • @calsalitra4689
      @calsalitra4689 2 роки тому

      @@endlesstrash4718 Blobs of players also offer an opportunity, since with a large number of players running around the same space, a Spy can slip in easily and get a few stabs in, especially if that blob is distracted by a fight. Pyro flames would make that hard, but with a little time overhealing 1000 HP would be more than enough to get the job done.

  • @ChronoSquare
    @ChronoSquare 2 роки тому

    oh man I missed this experiment time. Very interesting with the flames vs airblast distances.

  • @W3tPaint
    @W3tPaint 2 роки тому

    this is a pretty cool idea

  • @MersenneTwister
    @MersenneTwister 2 роки тому +8

    With all the grief people give heavy players about how easy he is, it's kind of hilarious that the biggest problem was that no one was any good at tracking with heavy :)

    • @edcellwarrior
      @edcellwarrior Рік тому +1

      That wasn’t what the problem was :)

  • @battlefork4625
    @battlefork4625 2 роки тому +3

    neat.

    • @edohanma
      @edohanma 2 роки тому

      bro just watched 6 minutes in 1 minute

    • @battlefork4625
      @battlefork4625 2 роки тому

      @@edohanma im from the future dw

  • @kayceeS219
    @kayceeS219 2 роки тому +1

    ‘I held my viewers at gun point and politely asked them to participate in the experiment’ me: I agree, holding a person at gunpoint and then proceeding to politely say ‘participate in the experiment’ while still being held at gun point is crazy

  • @Defender8850
    @Defender8850 3 місяці тому +1

    damage dealt strange part heaven.

  • @tinkant5210
    @tinkant5210 2 роки тому +3

    Great vid overall but a little confused on the Spy perspective of things.
    Yeah, you won't get backstabs if you just run up to people and start slashing. That's true in vanilla TF2, just that here, you won't get mauled down instantly.
    Spy's whole thing is flanking and trickstabs, I don't get why you excluded the latter.

    • @stitchfinger7678
      @stitchfinger7678 2 роки тому +5

      Its hard to do when the fights are so chaotic because almost nobody dies on a second-to-second basis; like he said, you can really only shuffle into a big fight and hope to land a facestab in the confusion, otherwise you'll get burned out or just fail to score points.
      And with Pyro being the meta, Spy is all the less effective.

    • @zappodude7591
      @zappodude7591 2 роки тому

      Trickstabs are only useful against gullible players or when latency favors you.

  • @UserIsGlassed
    @UserIsGlassed 2 роки тому +10

    I would call this the over oven
    Stats
    +60% more over heal on team mates
    +20% hp on health packs etc
    +10 more dmg on melees etc
    - 20 melee swing speed
    Medics healing team mates has 20% more dmg to every thing (except for plogs)
    It's quite fair tho i mean
    P.S: I edited this 4 times

    • @LoraLoibu
      @LoraLoibu 2 роки тому +2

      60% more overheal is the main gimmick
      +20% health pack hp? why?
      melee stats are just... why?
      is the 20% more damage the ubercharge? if not, what would it be?

    • @deftheocelot9125
      @deftheocelot9125 2 роки тому

      I agree with the other commenter
      Strip everything but the overheal.
      Uber Effect: damage resistance for targets with overheal, rapid overheal for you, but if their overheal drains then they lose it.

    • @LoraLoibu
      @LoraLoibu 2 роки тому

      @@deftheocelot9125 So, a kind of a mix of the vaccinator and quickfix ubers? Sounds intresting

    • @UserIsGlassed
      @UserIsGlassed 2 роки тому

      i wrote the health pack hp as a refrence to another spin off of tf2, Typical Colours 2 on roblox its ok i mean just way more tryhards then tf2 (the weapon is the stock weapon for doctor its just called saw and its a 50% health pack on that game)

    • @UserIsGlassed
      @UserIsGlassed 2 роки тому

      but no one asked for this sooooo

  • @ClaraCleary2005
    @ClaraCleary2005 Рік тому

    the quick fix-ubersaw strat reminds me of the regular medic uber chain, but only one person is required to do it and you're still vulnerable to spies

  • @greasehardbody4018
    @greasehardbody4018 2 роки тому +2

    Please do more of these. The results of these experiments are always fascinating.

  • @microsoftpowerpoint4731
    @microsoftpowerpoint4731 2 роки тому

    I love these theoretical gameplay videos

  • @moch126
    @moch126 8 місяців тому +1

    "heavy takes no skill" crowd switching to phlog pyro because they can't aim with a minigun

  • @vibecheck3432
    @vibecheck3432 2 роки тому +1

    pyro: use phlog
    sentry: look at me im the airblast now

  • @17raysplays29
    @17raysplays29 2 роки тому

    The way you talk about Spy makes it sound like you've never encountered a competent Spy.

  • @skyeshoe.223
    @skyeshoe.223 Рік тому

    That was wxtremely interesting.

  • @Sleepystranger
    @Sleepystranger 2 роки тому

    i believe the balancing of this game is the best ever made

  • @buddyisbored2355
    @buddyisbored2355 2 роки тому

    Cant wait for the Cactus Canyon experiment video

    • @shounic
      @shounic  2 роки тому +1

      no...........

  • @guyoestreich
    @guyoestreich 7 місяців тому +1

    Suppressed that scout didn't get used more since he is specifically given low health to balance his high damage and mobility.

  • @blacklight683
    @blacklight683 2 роки тому +1

    Ah yes I hold them at gun point and politely in the same sentence what a polite man

  • @mikhail8851
    @mikhail8851 2 роки тому

    "i held my veiwers at gunpoint and politely asked to to participate in the experiement"
    - shounic 2022

  • @MedicMainDave
    @MedicMainDave 2 роки тому

    I approve.
    I really gotta get myself one of these mediguns!

  • @user-wh2nt5ce5r
    @user-wh2nt5ce5r 5 місяців тому

    Holyday punch and spy co-operation could be a neat gimmic

  • @AnonymasFox
    @AnonymasFox 11 місяців тому

    00:15
    "And no matter what i do, i cant overheal them"
    *proceeds to shoot two crossbow bolts into eye sockets

  • @Gideon_the_Seraph
    @Gideon_the_Seraph Рік тому +1

    “For the most part, spy was pretty useless.”
    Yup. Most spy players

  • @brandongordon4019
    @brandongordon4019 2 роки тому

    What a fun video

  • @dotmadhack
    @dotmadhack 2 роки тому

    Any heavy walking towards a phlog pyro thats taunting is like the level 1 equivalent of an rpg.

  • @DEGRODANTONTHEINTERNET-uf8br
    @DEGRODANTONTHEINTERNET-uf8br Місяць тому +2

    Bluds forgor about vaccinator's "fuck you damage type" uber, although it would be really difficult to build up overheal with it