Percussion Revolvers in the Rain
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2021
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The evolution from flintlock ignition to the percussion cap was a huge step forward for firearms technology. How much of a difference did the percussion cap make in regards to reliability in the rain?
Let's find out!
When experiments don’t do what you expect, that’s when you learn stuff.
These result totally show how they ended up with those huge flap holsters.
If you properly seal the chambers and nipples wth beeswax, these guns are as reliable as rimfire ammunition.
@@franklinAll8735 Respectfully, How would one seal the nipple end? thx in advance.
@@Curtislow2 you lather the cap in wax or grease once it's seated to keep water off
@@moomeansmooable That was how I suspected it was done. But would the wax have detrimental affect on subsequent reloading?
@@moomeansmooable I could see the detonation of the cap blowing off most of the wax,regarding reloads.
0:53 "I cant call the rain down on command here, in Arizona"
Arizona is the only state in US protected from Karl' weather magic CONFIRMED
Well... technically it's just his word... He still could, but chose to lie about it...
Also, note that he only said he couldn't call the RAIN down. Didn't rule out fire, lightning, tornados, frogs etc
@@stoicshield HE'S TOO POWERFUL, HE CAN'T BE CONTAINED.
he is lulling us into a false sense of security. we are being taken for fools.
Meanwhile in the UK "Rain? Just wait till after lunch..."
When I was a young hunter in MT an old man who was my mentor suggested that I load and cap my revolvers, then add some light non-petroleum grease to the edge of the caps to seal it to the nipple. Not very much or I'd risk fouling the cap. Since that worked so well in the rain and snow, and that the guns were for defense only, I switched to fingernail polish as a sealant. I also employed this method on my Hawken 54 and Zouave 58. I never had a misfire, even after falling in a rushing creek. Of course, I used tallow or bore butter for extra sealing and fouling mitigation. The best thing a shooter can do is keep the revolver in the holster with the flap closed until it is absolutely required to draw it--or stay home by the fire when the weather is bad. :)
Would greasing the ball also improve water resistance?
@@twistedyogert Yes or maybe some kind of sealant that's not too slick. Still want that compression.
Small pistol primers inside a small piece of pvc tubing on my remington new model army is very reliable with the rain.
I was just wondering why no one’s ever mentioned sealing the caps with grease or something! Thank you!
Will the bore butter melt in hot weather?
One thing I always enjoy from this channel is the commitment to results, not story. This isn't the first time you didn't get the result you were expecting/hoping for, yet you still post the videos. I very much appreciate the honesty there, it's something you don't get often on the internet.
i concur
I like how he says, i am expecting this but when he isnt correct, he will own it. As a scientist, this happens alot but the results are the results
Ahhhh! true science.
the content i wanted but didn’t know i needed. thanks karl!
Agreed. Karl talks about stuff ignored by almost anyone else.
Indeed!
When you're crafting black powder SMGs to kill super mutants and deathclaws you'll thank him even more
I think you got that backwards
K keep me posted
The mud test has evolved into the much more civilized water test.
Never thought I'd see Hubert Cumberdale, a real boy, here on Inrange
@@tastychunks I get around
ok, now I wanna see mud-testing for blackpowder firearms... thanks
Next month: Will an M1 Garand function after being Mesquite smoked?
Hubert Cumberdale is that you?
Still, historically the use of caps was a determining factor in the increasing weapon superiority of European forces fighting local tribes. It was noted by the East India units that cap modified muskets gave them the edge over the burmese tribes that had stalled them for many years on the Assam frontier. The old flintlock were more or less useless in the humid weather and definitively in the Monsoon season.
Good experimental video. I'm French and I've read an old cap and ball instruction (1870 Franco-Prussian war, even though cartridge revolvers existed) for French soldiers stating they should put grease around the nipples in order to protect the cylinders from the rain and moisture in case of long period of loading without shooting.
The reasons the revolvers so often failed to fire is due to percussion caps being extremaly vulnerable to moisture. If you recapped the chambers after failure to fire I am confident they would go off most of the time.
The Starr discharged first, second and sixth chambers. That is thanks to a top strap providing protection from water to these chambers. Colt is an open top design and thus percussion caps were not protected by anything.
Old timers used to use a beeswax to seal the front and rear end of the cylinder. If applied properly, the beeswax provides almost 100% protection from moisture and thus guns weatherproofed this way are no less reliable than your average rimfire arm.
Would be interested to see the beeswax in practice.
@@Prowbar here: watch?v=NEGdt9KXcbI
I heard animal fat works well too for sealing the chambers
Bear grease or bees wax to seal caps and chambers.....
The modern solution is Crisco....use it as patch lube also.....🤠
@@spaceman624 Yes Animal fat was used usauly bear fat but it did tend to get ranchid.
he can't call down the rain on command in Arizona.
in Ohio it usually works though.
We see the sun almost three times a year!
I live in Arizona and I seem to be able to cause rain by washing my car.
I find that setting up a campsite will almost always call down the rain.
@@jr416de Yea, that and washing my car :-).
I have heard of beeswax on the chamber mouth and over the primers to keep revolvers loaded for extended periods. Such a practice may aid in waterproofing the primers until ready for use.
Would love to see that experiment next! Does this hearsay have merit, or is it assumption and intuition.
Here is an observation I came across; Colt put out a work in 1855 illustrating that the cones should be waxed on the sides, so that when the cones are capped, it will form a water tight seal with a properly fitted cap. Outstanding video. I really enjoyed it. Good to see a fellow Arizonan out doing this.
Always love InRange black powder content!
I see you are a man of culture with the Eurythmics lyrics. ;)
I am extremely cultured.
@@InrangeTv like a finely aged milk
@@hermatred572 that was a really cheesy joke...
@@gavindavies793 I’ll give a curdesy laugh
@@octopussmasher2694 yoghurt a great sense of humour
Karl, you're falling on my head like a memory; falling on my head like a new emotion.
Priceless for us who writes or play dnd, where those guns are! Thanks a lot, it's appreciated! Any chance for more videos oriented on those old guns in historical context and everyday reality of carrying and using them? You know, some basic 101 on how to write them realistically/realistically evaluate players actions...
I'm not sure it would make a difference. But something to bear in mind is that original period caps were more volatile than new "safety" caps.
Flintlocks prepared for battle were occasionally made water-resistant on ships by adding a tiny bit of wax onto the frizzen edge after loading.
I expected both to do much better. The flintlock was a tremendous leap forward in reliability, which greatly contributed to the shift from pike and shot formations to firearms.
Great content Karl, thank you.
I’ve had good success shooting my REM new model army in the rain when you push the Percussion caps deep onto the nipple with a wooden dowel. Forcing the priming compound to be flush with the flash hole
Thank you for stressing proper projectile size and the fact that wads are a modern invention. Flintlock users did have some ideas back in the day, but good demonstration.
Modern caps arent as thick as vintage caps either. Lubricated wads will contaminate the powder over time, typically from my experience inside of a couple of days. The lube will also contaminate the caps after a week or so from my experience as well.
Flintlock rain protection involve things like beeswax on the stock shelf against the barrel to divert water, and a "cows knee" to cover the lock.
now I'm singing the eurythmics all day
Yeah, me too 😅
Here comes Karls watering can again
Falling on my pistol like a misery….
The more I watch this black powder content, the more accessible and interesting it seems. Thanks Karl!
If you haven't tried black powder shooting you really need to. Shooting modern guns is fun, but black powder guns are probably even more so. They're not hard to load, shoot or maintain at all, but they are different than cartridge firearms which is why some people are intimidated.
I thought Karl was on a dirt backroad at the end until patches of pavement with center stripes started showing up, terrible road conditions is an understatement!
Living here in Arizona as well, I've said for years I understand why various cultures did rain dances. There is times I can't even remember the last rain. Sometimes I want it so bad it hurts.
Opposite down here in the swamp. We need an anti-rain dance!
Oregon here. We miss the rain bad right now, too.
@@m0nkEz Just take a magic watering can above your head.
Every time I went to a pyrotechnic convention in Lake Havasu around Valentine's Day it rained cats and dogs at least once out of the 3-4 days we were there|!
My town's weather ranges from 5°F to 104°F (in the last four years that is) and not raining for three weeks to 4 days of consecutive raining.
I don't know how historical it was but I did see someone mention in an article that people would drip a bit of candle wax on the percussion cap to waterproof the gap.
16:00 I'd like to see Karl recap the chambers that didn't fire to is if that's the weak link...
19:37 reprimes flintlock, doesn't reprime/recap percussion... I am teh dissapoint.
Still a good show and good info. thanks Karl
So, what you're saying is that the documentation about the use of wadding in percussion revolvers is really patchy?
Very good. Go reward yourself with a (grease) cookie
Wadd'ya say? ò_Ó
An interesting one for UK shooters for sure. Percussion revolvers are common here, and unfortunately so is the rain!
Agreed
A tiny bit of lard/lube over the primers makes a HUGE difference.
--
Putting lard/lube over the primers AND over the ball, and you'll be able to submerge the gun entirely.
true. watch?v=NEGdt9KXcbI
They used varnish on the nipples and lard over the ball.
Absolutely, that’s what I do with mine when I go camping
@@peterlenihan5712 I've gone modern, I use clear nail polish.
I was going to suggest the same thing lol
Just wanna say, given your message at the end of the video. I always appreciate these videos man. Your passion for history and weapons really shows, it's always a joy tuning into these!
One thing you always have to be careful with when dealing with historical sources. Sometimes when you have a document that says "Don't do X.", that's because people actually were. And the inverse of course.
And some advice from the gunmen of the day ......well, was not listened to. Even Wyatt Earp forgot his own advice. There was a minor incident he caused. He once advised a Eastern tenderfoot to only load five, with hammer resting on empty chamber. But during one faro game, HIS revolver somehow fell out , hit the floor and gun fired off a wild round, but no one was hit !
Hey Carl, just wanted to say that I love the content and I love your outfits even more.
This was great. Historical practicality. Often wondered about about the effects of rain. Much more real world than being dunked in a load of mud. Thanks for your work.
my theory about why the colt didn't function as well as the star is because the back of the cylinder is more covered by the frame. The back of the colts entire cylinder is pretty much exposed which lets the water into your caps.
Loved the ending. Great video Karl. Thank you
I love this kind of historical experimentation. Thanks Karl!
back in the old days it wasnt uncommon to seal bp revolvers chambers with bees wax or a thin patch with some tallow over it for weather proofing
I think for people in wet conditions it should work.
THIS is why I love InRange & Karl - he had an hypothesis but his experiment proved it at least partially wrong. Yet he unashamedly posts the content as is rather than either faking it or just not posting the video at all. Fantastic (as ever) video.
Excellent video. I enjoy seeing experiments with unexpected results. This kind of result adds more knowledge than one that fits the hypothesis or predictions. Thanks!
That last shot was hilarious. Flintlocks are just such a wild beast.
This is interesting. I've loaded and fired my Remington revolving carbine in a hard rain, and had very little trouble with it. Out of 30 shots, I had 2 misfires. Both chambers fired after recapping.
Great video. Appreciate your empirical approach!
I have been shooting these for 20 years. I have had misfires in the rain, but only very slightly more than the odd misfires that happened dry. I once had my repro 1858 Remington in my hip out mountain hunting, fell through ice on a pond into water up to my shoulders. It must have been completely submerged for a minimum of 3 minutes. Once clear of the freezing water I pulled it not expecting much. It surprisingly emptied all 5 shots I had loaded without so much as a hang fire.
I always made sure to have a good fit between nipple and cap. I also make sure to REALLY press the cap on with enough force to slightly expand the crimp around the outside of the cap perceptively. Your results may vary, but in wet conditions I can usually count on any of my revolvers to go off 5 out of 6 times. I may have to recap the one a 2-4 times, but the last has always gone off too.
Just remember that they are PERCUSSION caps. Steady, firm pressure will not set them off unless defective. That being said, always point in a safe direction just in case, but they should only go off if struck.
Now if I could just get my muzzle loading rifle to be that reliable…
Did you try recapping the unfired charges? That would have verified that the powder was still good. Did you crimp the cap? I seem to remember being told that crimping the cap was important to keep water out, but that also may have been cap-and-ball apocrypha.
I wonder if the top strap helps deflect the water a little, as well. Neat video.
to a degree it does, but I too wish he'd recapped the percussions.
I was hoping he'd try new caps as well. Maybe if he notices this comment, he'll try that in the future.
Crimping the cap would have actually made it worse. Squashing the cap will bend it into an oval shape, making a tighter fit on 2 sides, but opening it up on the other 2, unless it's a proper crimp as you would a cartridge bullet, but I've never ever seen a percussion cap crimper that crimps as a reloading press would.
I expect the slixx nipple with the hole in the side of it probably also doesn't help much for keeping water out.
This is what I came to say, he should've tried recapping the chambers that didn't fire. I don't know if it would have changed much, but it's worth a shot. Makes me want to drag out my 1856 Navy and try this myself.
Karl’s out here answering the questions I didn’t know I even had yet.
sound was great on this video- keep up the great content!
This was a great video! Thanks for doing this. Always so creative
You definitely showed me how a percussion revolver seals. I always wondered about that issue.
On your 2nd it actually fired all rounds because you fired one round before dousing with water. That is unless it has a 7 round chamber. Well done
that single shot pistol looks cool as hell, keep up the commitment to black powder Karl!
I can only expect wheellock would have similar results, would be an interesting experiment! I would also imagine the spencer carbine would probably run worse in weathered conditions? Who knows
Well, from someone in the area around Catalina, I am loving the rain this year. Even if it is a bit more humid. Cheers!
Great video, thank you for the content. Very interesting results.
Your videos on black powder weapons have been extremely interesting and educational. It’s nice to get a feel for what life was REALLY like instead of how the movies and pop culture portray it. I hope there’s a lot more to come!!
Another thing I remember hearing ( can’t recall where ) was that reloading your pistol every morning was common place . The thought being humidity would effect the guns reliability.
I've heard that too
@@schottiey although it never made sense to me , because isn’t the powder and primers in the same humid air that gun is ? What about loading them in the cylinder makes that a thing ?
Wild Bill Hickok was rumored to reload his guns every morning. Saying that when I was re-enacting, we had blank charges, and would just re-cap our guns in the morning and toss our old caps in a pot of boiling water.
Fire them first
This was a very interesting video and experiment. It is hard to watch how casually you poured water on your guns, but the insight that it brought really gives a good perspective on how it was with these weapons back in the day.
Also expected the cap and balls to do better than they did, but also an awesome side note on the holsters of the day. Very cool as always.
14:35 got some Paul Harrell vibes when Karl said "However, why not try it?"
I think that the Starr’s “overhang” over the caps is simply protecting the caps…😶. Direct exposure to the rain over the caps is probably the decisive issue. 😶
That is exactly what I expected, I remember the first time I took my BP revolvers to the range on a rainy day and figured they would perform as normal. They proved me wrong immediately. One thing I will say I changed out the caps at the range and every round fired perfectly right afterwards. If I left the caps on for any amount of time in the rain they would not ignite. Great video! I've never seen that test performed.
Awesome video man, thanks fot taking the time to try this one out!
could some grease or beeswax help seal between the caps and the nipple or would the risk of clogging the fire hole be to great.
Also mercury fulminate used to be the standard priming compound but these days potassium chlorate mixtures are more preferred and could have an effect on water resistance.
beeswax will resolve the weather-induced reliability issues with these guns indeed.
I don't think that modern primers use potassium chlorate either as it is corrosive. My understanding is that the most common early priming compounds were actually a mix of the two, trying to ballance out the pros and cons. I would be surprised if modern primers used either, as one is made from mercury and destabilises over time, whilst the other is corrosize. It is probably some safer, cleaner alternative.
@@commando552 fulminate of mercursy is as - or worse - corrosive than potassium chlorate. The misconcepton that you must clean a black powder arm instantly after firing is due to the use of fulminate of mercury as priming compound which indeed rusts the gun almost instantly. Remington advertises their caps as not corrosive so they must use something else. You can clean a black powder fouling up to 48hrs after firing with no permament damage to the gun. Under serious humidity minor surface rust may occur. In a dry envoirment no significant rust should appear up to 48 hrs from black powder fouling only.
@@franklinAll8735 It is from wikipedia so suspect as all hell, but to quote from there "Mercury fulminate has the distinct advantage over potassium chlorate of being non-corrosive, but it is known to weaken with time, by decomposing into its constituent elements." It doesn't really matter if one or both are corrosive, as the standard compound was a mix, comprising three parts potassium chlorate, two parts mercury fulminate, and normally one part powdered glass for extra friction. Only very early were caps pure Mercury fulminate (I think predating them being in a copper cup), so pretty much all historical use of caps and how you need to deal with their corrosive after effects will be in relation to the mixture above.
I believe lead styphnate is used as a priming mixture nowadays, including caps.
"Here comes the rain again."
Great, now I'm gong to have that song stuck in my head :p
Really awesome test\information! Thank you!
I was always a bit curious about this, and the results surprised me. Cool stuff.
I deer hunt with a .50 percussion. A drop or two of wax, or a q-tip with Vaseline worked well for me in WI rain.
And what was applied to the gun? :P
@@kevinwestermann1001 "A drop or two of wax, or a q-tip with Vaseline". on the capped nipple. Vaseline not as good except in cold. Another thing is bore grease and I carry a small tube of that. Most all Carl's misfires only clicked meaning the caps did not go off, you can hear the difference between a dud cap and wet/no powder load.
It would be interesting to try this experiment with different brands of caps.
CCI#11 Magnum caps work nearly perfect !
Great stuff Karl. I always wondered about this very topic.
I really enjoyed this 💎 of video! Thank you!
I would like to see re-capping the failed cylinders after you realized the caps are the issue. Still, very interesting, good info!
I use beeswax to seal my frizzen while flintlock hunting. Would probably work on a percussion cap. But I assume it would be tricky to get right.
Pressing a small amount lard into the cracks would be my first thought....
Such a cool experiment. Thanks Karl!
Got to Ft. Huachuca for my AIT back in June and the change from pure dry desert to lush mountains is insane.
Karl "everything is green and lush"
Me in Northern Ireland "LOL at desert man"
I feel like there's some kind of capillary action going on with the caps. Just kind of sucks the water straight to the primer.
Carl absolutely love content like this never cease to amaze me the different things that you come up with to talk about and always always it very interesting even if it's something I don't really know much about or something that I never thought really would be interesting but you put things in words and describe stuff so well that instantly you have me hooked and I wish some of these segments were longer especially when you do the history ones when you go to towns of Old West and explain how important this town was because of these outlaws and all the Western stuff absolutely love it I can tell that you do too which makes the content you do want it that much more interesting thank you truly really really do appreciate all you do for this channel and a shout out to all the patreon to help too.
Fascinating test. Thanks for sharing
It would have been interesting to see if just replacing the cap would make it fire.
I'm likewise surprised by this result. Would a different varietal of percussion cap make a difference? I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of percussion-cap firearms.
Not familiar with percussion caps, but oil and grease does not play well with primer compounds. In fact one of the primers I used to buy stated that to deactivate them drop them into oil.
That was years ago, so maybe its still true maybe not.
@@chuckaddison5134 use beeswax, it works.
I've always wanted the answer to this question. Thank you for settling this in my mind!
Excellent video. Thank you. I love the historical detail, and modern approach to this. Cheers 🍻
Putting some grease or other waterresistant material on the cap would have helped? Did they used to do that or the grease could alter the primer?
yes, it would boost reliability to almost 100%. Old timers used to seal the caps with beeswax. It will not alter the priming compund in any way if applied correctly.
@@franklinAll8735 It sounds like something to be tested!!
Nice video. I like how you acknowledged your hypothesis was incorrect and just accepted it instead of trying to hide it or change the results. Love your videos Karl keep it up man.
Thank you for your work, that was very interesting.
Love what you're doing Karl! keep it up.
Thanks, will do!
Thank you for the hard work and epic research!
Its crazy my roads look a lot like that after this weeks rain as well. Great video, was really glad there were no hang fires
Love the content as always.
Great video Karl
Here comes the rain again
Falling on my head like a memory
Falling on my head like a new emotion
I bought a .44 cal percussion colt replica, made by pietta, on a lark. It has since become one of my favorite guns to shoot. I've found 20 grains of pyrodex and a .454 cal ball to be both reasonably powerful and accurate, and not overly stressful to the brass frame. Great video
Great video as usual. Thanks a lot.
Great idea for video! Thank You!
Superb ! Excellent Video, one of best I've seen ! Very well done to demonstrate how weather fouled up percussion arms. Unique and well done . I learned something I can use for my own shooting AND writing, as I write Civil War and Old West historical novels ! I loved this ! (Staff Sgt. Nam combat vet, USMC/USAF/ARNG) THANK YOU ! Impressive !
Ive been talking about getting myself a percussion cap revolver and this really gets me excited to get one!
Thank you as always for quality content!
Excellent video. Like you said, I haven't seen anything like this anywhere.
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Always entertaining, interesting, and informative.
Excellent content! Thanks for all the work that went into it. New merch idea--Official InRange Rain Test Soaker Bucket!!
Thank you for the awesome video, I enjoyed the content.
Great video.. very enjoyable to watch