I believe it was in December 1937 the AC Gilbert purchased American Flyer from William Coleman. It is common to refer "the Coleman years" as Chicago Flyer as they were made in Chicago, but they were technically name American Flyer. It wasn't until the 1940 catalog came out that advertised a 3/16" scale trans for O Gauge Track.
Nice video, but a few inaccuracies. Alfred Carlton Gilbert mentioned to Mr Coleman, the owner of American Flyer in Chicago, that he was contemplating making an H0 line of trains. This was either 1937, or 1938. Coleman told Gilbert that he would sell him American Flyer instead. The deal was done. Standard gauge tooling was dumped into the river, and 0 gauge tooling brought to New Haven. Most collectors believe that the 3/16 th 0 gauge line was developed in New Haven. In early 1946, some 0 gauge trains were produced probably with parts leftover from 1941. S gauge came out later in 1946.
It is hard to believe but in 1938 gilbert produced HO, ready to run AC trains. The technology existed to produce Two rail trains and Gilbert had it. A check with the A.C.Gilbert Heritage Society will confirm this. Gilbert happened to get the American Flyer line by happenstance from Coleman and had to deal with existing inventory, products and movement of the line to New Haven from the 2219 S. Halsted St, Chicago factory. ( building is still there ) He had a bunch of O gauge stuff and tooling which had to be dealt with. I believe he also produced some nice novel O ,gauge items. This is truely an interesting period and some three rail "S" ( thru scale ) steam engines with novel wheel configurations have been converted to two rail by club members. The thru scale cars convert nicely to two rail link coupler trucks (CASG)
I am looking forward to this series. Thanks for doing all the work to put this together. I already subscribe to the channels mentioned here and enjoy their content as well. In my previous years of buying and running American Flyer, I remember buying at least one of the O gauge cars at a train show. One was the white box car with red opening door. Much of the paint had flaked off, so I put S gauge trucks under it and repainted it as the Monon railroad's first box car.
I found a 3/16 0 gauge K5. It had no chugger in the tender cosmetic shape was great. Plus I had worked on the S gauge equivalent from 1946 so I took it home and it didn't want to run. The wire had basically been disintegrated and it looked like someone tried to rewire it at some point but the pilot truck was falling apart it has seen the metal was cracked and come to find out these early 3/16 model had something like too much zinc in the casting as a mold release and it caused something called metallurgic disease or something like that. So I believe this is also a contributing factor in the scarcity of 3/16 0 gauge flyers.
Zink rot/zink pest has certainly ruined a high percentage of the AF o scale to be sure. I bought a little box of flyer parts at a local store. While the parts were post war there was one Atlantic frame that I believe to be prewar...there are fractures all over the parts...it's amazing it hasn't crumbled. I also have a Hudson from 48 where the chuff/smoke unit is spider cracked and unusable. So the metal issue didn't completely end with the war.
Thanks Austin. I too enjoy the S on O . My FIL had given my children a set of late 30's passenger cars. It took several years to get a locomotive for the set as the original loco suffered with zinc pest. I was able to find a freight set from a train store I used to visit as a small child and would go to the store when going back to visit my parents during leave. With the help of your videos and others as you listed for references in your video, I have been collecting ,repairing, and running Gilbert S and AF S on O. Keep up the great work. Thanks.
Thanks for the comment Sparky. I need to confess that I'm puzzled how it is you are able to view this video. I have not yet made it public. Please let me know.
Thanks Gary but this was not intended as a teaser. After mulling over how to best pull this series together it seemed an opening overview was essential.
Sounds like fun! Cant wait to see what's coming. Maybe I will put my 3 rail Flyer on my short list to repair next, I am really curious how it will operate.
I believe it was in December 1937 the AC Gilbert purchased American Flyer from William Coleman. It is common to refer "the Coleman years" as Chicago Flyer as they were made in Chicago, but they were technically name American Flyer. It wasn't until the 1940 catalog came out that advertised a 3/16" scale trans for O Gauge Track.
I LOVE the historic background you presented on the Gilbert Company in this video! Great job, Austin! 🚂
Thankyou!
Nice video, but a few inaccuracies. Alfred Carlton Gilbert mentioned to Mr Coleman, the owner of American Flyer in Chicago, that he was contemplating making an H0 line of trains. This was either 1937, or 1938. Coleman told Gilbert that he would sell him American Flyer instead. The deal was done. Standard gauge tooling was dumped into the river, and 0 gauge tooling brought to New Haven. Most collectors believe that the 3/16 th 0 gauge line was developed in New Haven. In early 1946, some 0 gauge trains were produced probably with parts leftover from 1941. S gauge came out later in 1946.
Yes, A.C. Gilbert did buy the American Flyer and rights before the war, and began producing the S scale bodies on the O gauge wheel sets.
All I have in this is the prewar Royal Blue freight set. Still can't get enough flyer. 😊.
Loved this history lesson!
Very good show Austin!
It is hard to believe but in 1938 gilbert produced HO, ready to run AC trains. The technology existed to produce Two rail trains and Gilbert had it. A check with the A.C.Gilbert Heritage Society will confirm this. Gilbert happened to get the American Flyer line by happenstance from Coleman and had to deal with existing inventory, products and movement of the line to New Haven from the 2219 S. Halsted St, Chicago factory. ( building is still there ) He had a bunch of O gauge stuff and tooling which had to be dealt with. I believe he also produced some nice novel O ,gauge items. This is truely an interesting period and some three rail "S" ( thru scale ) steam engines with novel wheel configurations have been converted to two rail by club members. The thru scale cars convert nicely to two rail link coupler trucks (CASG)
That was a great show you did about American Flyer and S scale history, and O Gauge history etc. Thank you Austin!
very good video austin!!! thanks
I love looking at american flyer train in my old classic toy trains magizines
I am looking forward to this series. Thanks for doing all the work to put this together. I already subscribe to the channels mentioned here and enjoy their content as well. In my previous years of buying and running American Flyer, I remember buying at least one of the O gauge cars at a train show. One was the white box car with red opening door. Much of the paint had flaked off, so I put S gauge trucks under it and repainted it as the Monon railroad's first box car.
I found a 3/16 0 gauge K5. It had no chugger in the tender cosmetic shape was great. Plus I had worked on the S gauge equivalent from 1946 so I took it home and it didn't want to run. The wire had basically been disintegrated and it looked like someone tried to rewire it at some point but the pilot truck was falling apart it has seen the metal was cracked and come to find out these early 3/16 model had something like too much zinc in the casting as a mold release and it caused something called metallurgic disease or something like that. So I believe this is also a contributing factor in the scarcity of 3/16 0 gauge flyers.
Zink rot/zink pest has certainly ruined a high percentage of the AF o scale to be sure. I bought a little box of flyer parts at a local store. While the parts were post war there was one Atlantic frame that I believe to be prewar...there are fractures all over the parts...it's amazing it hasn't crumbled. I also have a Hudson from 48 where the chuff/smoke unit is spider cracked and unusable. So the metal issue didn't completely end with the war.
Gilbert's AF 3/16" scale trains really do look realistic. That's what I find so appealing about them.
Thanks Austin. I too enjoy the S on O . My FIL had given my children a set of late 30's passenger cars. It took several years to get a locomotive for the set as the original loco suffered with zinc pest. I was able to find a freight set from a train store I used to visit as a small child and would go to the store when going back to visit my parents during leave. With the help of your videos and others as you listed for references in your video, I have been collecting ,repairing, and running Gilbert S and AF S on O. Keep up the great work. Thanks.
Thanks for the comment Sparky. I need to confess that I'm puzzled how it is you are able to view this video. I have not yet made it public. Please let me know.
Yes they are all the great prewar and post war thanks for sharing this great learning experience. Because toy train's 🎉🎉🎉🎉are fun
Nice teaser Austin. Very much looking forward to this series.
Thanks Gary but this was not intended as a teaser. After mulling over how to best pull this series together it seemed an opening overview was essential.
Sounds like fun! Cant wait to see what's coming. Maybe I will put my 3 rail Flyer on my short list to repair next, I am really curious how it will operate.
I didn't not know that. I learned something today about s gauge
Stupid question as I'm new to the hobby, was there where a train it tender produced with the Chicago flyer logo on it?
Great, now I'm looking for a Chicago Flyer? Do you have or seen one?
I do not have any. I have seen them online like eBay or auction sites and at train shows.
Am I to understand that prewar Flyer would operate on Lionel Marx tracks? HAPPY DAY!, then I can consider purchasing early Flyer.
Yes, it would operate on O gauge track