My Response to Zak George's Questions - Vlog War Round 1
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2023
- Although I'd rather sit down to a chat to talk about dog training with Zak George, I am happy to try this way, as Zak requested. In this video I address Zak's question to me regarding my dog training and use of tools including the ecollar, prong collar and slip leads. Why I think dog trainers play a critical role and should not necessarily rely on the advice of a veterinary behaviorist in dog training situations and I defend my use of "aversives" in dog training and the necessity for corrections.
It was my goal when I got into dog training to to help dogs, which is why a large portion of my time and efforts were geared toward working with shelter dogs. I believe that all tools have a place in dog training when used correctly. AND, am very opposed to banning the use of tools from dog training. I think it's a terrible approach and will not help dogs in any way.
I want to thank @zakgeorge for being open to this conversation, and I would invite a friendly dialog between all dog trainers for the benefit of all dogs!
I will post my question(s) to Zak in the next day or two..
#dogtraining #dogtrainer #doglover - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
To Zac - THIS is what a grown up, non-confrontational, relaxed conversation looks and feels like. You can be passionate about something without being defensive and condescending. Thank you Robert for being you and for sharing so much with us ⭐️
This is what people that abuse animals say when they use positive punishment. It's like they haven't keep up with their training the last 40 years.
Seems most 'dog trainers' are the least educated professionals.
I have a question for you Robert, do you like Dog daddy just wondering your opinion.
@@stephendurnan3609 If u have children it would interesting to hear or see ur skills as a parent Lol
‘Stop whining’ Abusing dogs r as bad as Abusing owners !...Treats do not solve every dog’s bad and/or dangerous behaviours
What Zak and them need to understand is that by getting rid of or banning tools doesn't really affect people who actually train dogs for a living. It hurts the average dog and dog owner because they are left with fewer options at the end of the day.
Not only that, but it has no effect on people who abuse dogs either. We all remember Jeff Gellman "bonking" (hitting) dogs (for no reason) with rolled-up towels, right? I guess we should go after towels next and outlaw those, horrible dog abusing tools that they are. The tool is not the problem. People who use the tool incorrectly are.
@@thecawckiestking Agree, and these abusive people can always use another tool or relatively harmless object into objects that can hurt or even kill a dog or even a human being.
I would like to see Zac work with a Rescue Malinois which is very aggressive and is destined to be put down, see how he can solve it with just treats when the dog is not really food motivated. Not everyone gets a new puppy to shape and form correctly.
Zach George will never do that... he is woke, a fraud, and a liar
Nope... Won't ever to do that
I have done it, and not only with a 'Malinois' but with one from very old, NVBK bloodlines from dogs that make even serious trainers raise an eyebrow at the breeding behind her. She hospitalized her original owner, and was effectively feral by the time I got her with high active aggression and low inhibition around people she did not trust. She had been abused to some extent with tools, because initially when she even saw a prong or an e-collar, she would leave the area, and if not possible, she would fight whomever held it. This was a good inspiration to see how far you can get without the tools. It is possible to make (surprisingly) good progress and get a degree of results that make that animal reliable enough to be carefully managed in society.
However, overall, it is not reliable, and not enough to be safe in society. When everything is 'on' and the external stimuli of competing motivators are not pressing the dog, you can do very nice level of obedience, transitions from multiple types of heeling, downs, send-outs and arounds, article searches, tracking, etc. But, nothing human offered that's positive in nature can out-compete her external motivators. You still have to do everything as positively as you can, not only to maintain the type of relationship you like, maintain the visual picture you like of a happy, engaged animal, but because these old lines of dogs have generations of training resistance to correction, so it really must be last-ditch and you must get into the dog's mind through whatever other means possible first. If not, your corrections will either become ineffective, or you will be in a position of abuse. One way to always stay stable on what is say, 'abuse' with a tool, is to try it on yourself first. Long story short, this female is now ok to good, depending on the criteria and situation. But she is not and never will be what could be deemed 'safe in society'. She also runs as fast as she can now, to have an e-collar or prong collar put on her, even though they're so seldom used. They have inherently positive associations, she's learned that pressure is pressure, not positive or negative, and that response to pressure leads to reward. She's learned to turn pressure off, and she's learned to enjoy pressure that turns her on, so to speak. She also is at her happiest on general excursions in a prong, even if it is not actively being used, because her 'default mode' consumes her given how she was raised. Just the pressure of the 'touch' of the prong, brings her to a clear and stable mindset that actually allows her to maintain clarity and enjoy life.
I watched many videos of this Zak fellow years ago, learned nothing I didn't already know, saw nothing of value, nor any dogs that to me would be what trainers would seek to go out and engage with to challenge themselves and their abilities. Honestly, I have no idea where he's at now as a trainer, but also have no interest. I also cannot abide people who insist on 'absolutes' particularly for perpetuation of their own agenda and profit. I watch and listen to Robert, and respected Robert before I'd ever even seen him with a dog, because our mutual friend Eric (S) has always spoken so highly of him. You can learn something from any trainer, even the bad ones. If you learn that what you're doing works, works better, then exposure even to a trainer whose methods don't impress or just simply suit, is a positive learning experience through independently reinforcing your existing knowledge.
Most FF trainers' dogs are carefully selected to have agreeable traits. My agility instructor's BCs would not take any food without her permission. She told me it's just their personalities. Meanwhile I did a billion drills of Susan Garrett's It's yer choice with my Aussie. He will steal food if opportunity presents. (Aka when I'm not supervising)
@@BearAndKuko sorry- are you saying you did or did not find success with Susan Garrett's method? I just recently discovered her and just curious.
I've been dying to create a response to Zak's latest tirade on balanced training. Hopefully one day, people will stop conflating "aversive" and "abusive." I find many people also cannot remove the connotation of the word used in learning theory as well. Smh. Anyway, nice response, I actually look forward to see if he will eventually agree to a meet. Hard to have an honest conversation when one party thinks the other is evil, though....
Zak is looking for clicks. People who don't know who he is, like me, will be tempted to go to his channel and see. I'm going to resist, though.
@@annabell3385 respectfully, every content creator wants clicks, it's their income. Zak's content is more heavily commercialized from what I remember (I watched a lot of his stuff before I got my first GSD 4 years ago).
@Anna Bell If he gets clicks, so be it. People will also be learning a lot more about real balanced training and they'll start seeing how flawed Zak's logic is
@@JimiInTheJungle most people are not great with logic
@annabell3385 I did a few times it's just a spoilt brat pulling a face & spewing a load of hate because he can't handle not having all the attention. He thinks it's his way or no way & everyone else is stupid backed up by god knows what stupid science & manipulated snippets of reports & videos🙄 My poor head hurt 😢 😞 🫠 😢 then I realised I had given him the attention he craves like the true narc he is. Save your sanity. Watch the real trainers cus he's just not worth the energy. It's all negative vibes hate & jealousy. Not pleasant & not very professional ❤
So about 3 years ago when I was going through UA-cam university to train my dogs. I was watching Zak’s videos at first to no avail. My relationship with my dogs and their obedience is astounding present day. All thanks to Robert Cabral and ShieldK9 UA-cam videos. Every time I go to the Vet everyone is surprised at how well mannered and trained my dogs are.
Yup exactly the same with my 2.5 year old GSD.
Yup, the same with my 2 yr old GSD
Same with my 3 year old Staffy :) Gotta say, Zak's videos helped in the beginning, but we needed the rest of the puzzle at around 9 months old. Once I discovered Robert's videos, no turning back. I have since found a great trainer who uses very similar styles. Very happy and confidant dog, with amazing obedience. I only knew how to find the right trainer thanks to Robert's amazing videos
Cannot recommend Shield K9 enough myself. Anyone who's really serious about dog training who hasn't heard of them REALLY needs to go and give them a look!
My experience was similar. I started with Zak's videos, thinking it looked good, then I tried it in real life, and it sucked.
For a P only trainer, he honestly hasn't got a clue. I know many P only trainers who are ACTUALLY brilliant at what they do, and he is NOT one of them. I guess he just knows how to do marketing.
I am glad I found you. When people tell me “I am positive only”. I ask them
“What happens when the dog doesn’t sit when you tell them to?” “The dog doesn’t get the reward.” I respond “ That is negative reinforcement”
Giving food, takes away hunger. So much for "Purely Positive". :)
So you're purposefully misrepresenting what most people mean by "positive only"?
I think you understand that "positive only" doesn't mean no negative consequences at all. It just means not using active punishments such as inflicting pain or displeasure as the primary tool, pain and displeasure can still be a side effect of the dogs own behavior. If my dog runs full speed to the end of the leash it's gonna hurt him, but it's not my choice as a trainer to use pain as an enforcer. It's just a consequence of the dogs own action.
It's the difference between smacking the dog when it doesn't sit and withholding a reward that defines what positive only means.
Zak covers up a treat until the dog complies. He admitted that it is an aversive when I questioned him. He said he's trying to quit. Cages are aversive..that's why prisons are used as punishment.
Further,to disentangle the term, "aversives" can become pleasant as seen when even a rough choke chain handler brings out the choke chain for a walk..the dog gets happy. And it can be seen in people who develop attraction to "kink" items.
Zak is so out to lunch,on his political trip, he's causing damage all-round, including to himself.
@@Jay-vp3kk No, it's the purely positive crowd that has "misrepresented" pretty much everything about training. they are the ones telling people that everything can be solved with positive reinforcement, when they know darned well that is not even close to the truth, and never will be.
In 49 years of dog training I have never met a trainer that was "positive", as much as they could be. Even in the days of almost all compulsion the dog was still told when it had done something good. A correction doesn't have to "inflect pain" but it can, and may well need to, to stop some things. But, as you so well pointed out, that is up to the dog.
That's not negative reinforcement. That's negative punishment (removing a reward to discourage a behavior).
Anyone that has seen Mr. Cabral's ''Bound Angels'' videos saw his training methods work. I'll add that his method took my 235 lbs Mastiff from a death ''death row'' dog to a good dog. She still has a very high prey drive but now I can control it.
Thank you.
Omg 😲 That's amazing to hear👏 ❤
Robert, my hat's off to you for your calm manner in responding to Zak George. As a dog trainer, I follow several trainers (obviously, you are one of them). I'm not so egotistical to think I know everything so I like to see what my peers are doing. Zak George is the only trainer I started to follow and had to unfollow.
I would love to see Zak train a truly human aggressive dog or a fearful dog who bites humans in response to its own fears. As a trainer who spent 8 years with dogs in a municipal dog shelter, I've worked with such dogs as I'm sure you have, Robert. I doubt Zak has that kind of experience... the unpredictable dog who in the blink of an eye turns and goes to bite a person...a person who has done nothing to that dog. I often tell the story of a mixed breed dog I worked with who was one of the most dog aggressive dogs I've ever seen. If she saw a dog way down the block, she would try to go to it (and it was obvious she didn't want to play... she wanted to kill). In response to the frustration of not being able to go kill the other dog, she would redirect on whoever held the leash (and since almost no one other than myself would even tough this dog, I was at the other end). Most dogs I've worked with redirect at your leg... she went towards your face/throat. Wonder what positive only technique Zak would use. The end of this story is the shelter personnel decided to adopt her out to an older man who lived alone, had a securely fenced yard and no desire to take her anywhere nor have any other pets. Sounded good on paper, but about a month later she was returned and put directly into isolation on a 10-day (required) bite hold...then euthanized. No one would/could tell me what happened other than it took 300 stitches to put the guy's face back on. Soooo, Zak, how would you fix this dog's problems?
Why would the shelter take that chance? How is that even legal?
@@annabell3385 Good question. Although everyone knew I was working with that dog, no one asked my opinion (which would have been that she was not ready to live in anyone's home.) There was a push from a group of "positive only" volunteers to get all the dogs adopted. These same volunteers made my life miserable because they hated that I did leash corrections, etc. I wasn't even allowed to use a prong or e-collar. Oddly enough, the man recovered from his injuries, came back and adopted a much nicer dog.
@@cherylschaeffer7832 obviously you interacted with the dog and thus knew them better than I could, but, while I don't think Zak could "fix" or even handle that dog, with such an extreme sounding case I question whether such a dog is fixable through any means, even if an experienced handler can manage them.
I don't have personal experience with such dogs though. I've handled a few dogs that normal people would consider aggressive, but in the context of real aggression the most difficult of the dogs I've interacted with had perhaps a moderate level of fear aggression up close, not what you're talking about where the dog commits to attacking someone or something off in the distance.
@@kinguin7 Under the right circumstances, it's possible the dog could have been rehabilitated. A shelter is not the right place for that and certainly whoever worked with the dog needed to be very good at handling, have quick reactions and be very aware of their surroundings.
My point about Zak is he has a huge audience and he is highly anti-anything that involves corrections. I wish he would use his platform to promote positive training but not bash the rest of us who use other methods. I'm not a frisbee trainer nor a trick trainer like he is. I stay in my lane of behavior modification and basic obedience. You'll never hear me bashing trainers who do types of training I don't do... in fact, I refer to people who do training that I don't do. It's a lot more pleasant when we can all get along.
@@cherylschaeffer7832 yeah I pretty much agree on Zak, I started off watching a few of his trick training videos, but with much of his channel content being anti other styles of training, it's hard to watch anything he's putting out. I also dislike how he argues for the view he has, lots of selective appeal to authority, in addition to weasel wording. I feel like someone could make a better case for positive only, his points only increase my skepticism though.
Sorry for sounding redundant, but Robert you have such a compassion not only for people, but for dogs as well. Your videos have helped countless people. Keep doing what you do. You have a gift and it is done well! Love to Janet too, your biggest support.
The proof is in his Goofy. Robert can train my gsd any day
@@jeffdeluca1153 Very true. Goofy, Maya, Duane and very much so Jimi
In this video he unironically said that because electrocuting your dog is preferable to it getting hit by a car, that justifies his method. If you think this is valuable information please refrain from having animals.
Hard to say he has compassion when he uses positive punishment. ALL the science the last 40 years says NOT to use that. These 'professionals' are not keeping up with what science is telling them. And are the least educated profession I can think of.
It's like going to the doctor for a blood letting to drive out the demons.
Word! Zak George seems to be wanting to have his cake and eat it. You can't act like "aversive" are a bad thing, yet make room for "emergencies". Likewise, it's very insincere to ask for trainers to join a dialogue about a topic and then brand them as friend or foe if they're not with the position you are defending, as Mr George is doing by asking should people follow what he calls the science or you? Not an invitation to participate in dialogue at all. Hat's off to Robert for taking the high ground and raising the level of the debate to where it should be: what's best for our dogs?
What happens when a dog doesn't give two 💩's about toys, treats, clicks or any audio coming from a human once they step out the front door? My 8 year old border collie was this way when he came to me at 2 years old with horrible manners and zero obedience. The only choice I had was to a) never take him anywhere or b) the "beep" of an e collar. I tried for months before I switched over to an e-collar. He would have 1000% got hit by the cars he wanted to chase and round up for whatever imaginary car rancher he was working for 🤣 I have no regrets. He didn't need a veterinary behaviorist, he didn't need medication because he's neurotic, He's just a border collie. His behaviors in the wrong hands would have been overmedicated when it's honestly just breed inherent. But I don't have a farm for him to herd and I was his last chance house. I had to be a responsible owner and teach him what was right and what was wrong, what I would accept and what I wouldn't because he could not hear me once he self-employed. I used an e-collar for exactly one week, and never again as he stopped trying to chase cars.
What I'm saying is, I agree Robert ❤️
My GSD chases cats although she loves our family cats (2). The ecollar is the only thing that gets through to her when she locks onto one outside. A quick vibrate brings her back to her senses . She hates it but I don’t believe it’s cruel. Nothing else works
Border collies, aussies, and other herding dogs are not for everyone. You did the right thing. I just had someone call me for an aussie-doodle puppy. Before I could even get there, they decided to return the puppy to the breeder. Clearly no one mentioned to them about herding instincts.
@@cherylschaeffer7832 yep we were this boys 4th home in 2 years, The last house that he was at prior to coming ours the grandfather threatened to shoot him because he tried to bite him when gramps got rough with him after he killed a chicken. This dog had so many problems. Imagine trying to learn training from so many different households, it'd be like a toddler with ocd learning four different languages in 2 years. I always tell him and I sincerely mean it, he will be my first and last border collie. I love him, I love the breed He's an amazing boy now, but you're completely right they aren't for everybody.
@@kylewillow I worked so hard on teaching my female GSD pup to not chase the cats 🤣 it was definitely a task at hand. Keep up the good work! It sounds like you're on top of it.
Robert, don’t let your guard down with Zak. I’ve seen videos of him saying (paraphrasing) ‘my goal is to make it so every balanced trainer can’t pay their bills and they have to quit’. He has profited from polarizing balanced and positive by falsely labeling balanced training/tools abusive
zak sounds unhinged honestly
Yeah, I've seen it as well. This recent "Vlog War" BS is just another agenda of his to bump out the competition. Its the only way he can actually compete with balanced trainers whose methods work better. There will be people who love to rally behind his dogma, always, but I'm glad to see how much its backfiring against him with how many people are actually willing to stand up to him in light of his latest publicity stunts.
Dude should have just stuck to making his trick training videos, instead he decided to show his ass and a lot of people realized it stinks.
@@soupfox I truly think he is
@@a.e.s.n. f
@@thecawckiestking Yep, Zak is an UNBALANCED trainer. If you have watched his "woke" politics video ,you know he endorses teachers putting money in kid's underwear for striptease.
Zac is too proud to understand dog aggression
Robert, you are a class act and great role model.
I used to watch Zak quite a lot. Once he (and his wife) started popping off on adversives, never again. I've seen with my own eyes the proper use of tools, and Zak getting dragged around by dogs. I never saw in any of his series a dog that left his care with a simple heel. I wouldn't doubt he and his wife are being paid to lobby his audience. They have a huge following, beautiful homes (plural). To use their privilege to poison a well is distasteful to me.
To anyone who is here and doesn't know Robert go back and actually WATCH his training methods from puppies on up. He LOVES and genuinely wants THE BEST for dogs. Puppies vs a shelter dog is apples and oranges when it comes to methods of fixing negative behaviors. Stop judging just because someone else took his methods out of context. This man actually LOVES and SELFLESSLY cares about what he is teaching. He genuinely doesn't need to "boost his ego" or on a power trip over training. HE IS the REAL Deal when it comes to getting a Professional Trainer to help YOU create a loving great life for the puppy or dog you bring into your home.💝🐶🐕🦺🐕💝
I usually do not comment…..but I agree 100% with you. Years ago I trained Brittany Spaniels for field trials, and now as a senior citizen I have a one year old Doberman. In all cases, a mix of positive and corrective methods lead to success. My field dogs were “finished” and my Doberman is a great well mannered family dog.
I use an e-collar in all off lead situations. I also use a prong collar, and a flat collar. All are valuable tools, as is the word “no”.
One does not need an e collar to be cruel. Nor is proper use of any tool cruel.
Again, 100% in agreement with you!
All I can say is my dog behaves excellently, and (not bragging) better than *most* dogs that we see. People comment on it quite a bit. I’ve used your methods extensively. Thanks.
Respect the dog. Reward the dog. Exercise the dog. And love the dog. Treat the dog fairly.
Thanks for sharing!
Lol same here.. I have 7 little muppets..my shits & little poos (shih tzus & toy poodles) all very easy to train, however I greatly respect the work that goes into training the more difficult groups & breeds & the very large untrained shelter dogs etc. It's amazing to see how they can be trained in the right hands & given another chance in life❤
I should post a video with my dogs getting ready to go for a walk when they hear the prong collars. Pure joy and excitement. The second the e-collars turn on they both run to the door because they know it means freedom. Nothing but smiles on their faces.
If you are going to use either, go through a trainer to make sure you don’t mess it up.
Cool! And while I realize this is a highly unscientific experiment, I put a PRONG collar on MY neck and pulled quite hard. Didn't really bother me. Flat buckle collar oh my God! I started to pull back a little on it and instantly felt my trachea would be in big trouble if I pulled any harder. Not nearly as hard as I pulled on the prong collar. Where is the outrage over fb collars then?
@@CamilleGG451 exactly and you hear the dog struggling as it’s walking and pulling. Funny you mention testing out collars. My family made me test out an e-collar before putting it on my first dog. Once we realized it wasn’t bad it was so funny seeing how high family members tried going. My dogs now are on a 2 medium out of 21 if they don’t respond. But most of the time a here and the tone or vibrate works just fine
Real life. Same, my dogs love their e collar and prong collars they can’t wait to get them on.
This man is an EXCELLENT human being AND dog trainer.
Veterinary behaviorist are vetrinarians that specialize in animal behavior. They focus on correcting animal behavior through medication usually and based on research on ANIMAL BEHAVIOR. How is subjecting animals to a medical STUDY better for the dog? How is injecting anything into an animal drawing blood to confirm a studies outcome training a dog? Creating a plethora of medications to treat something that can easily be remidied and quickly by NON ABUSIVE TRAINING that teaches a dog to think rather than react.
Whenever someone says 'there is scientific consensus' a red flag goes up in my mind. My question for Zak are the following:
What is the 'scientific consensus' on how to:
1) Rattlesnake proof a dog?
2) Retrieve a hunting dog from a mile or two away?
3) Fix severe human/dog aggression?
I really liked watching Zak George's videos for awhile because I think he is really good at trick training, teaching things with positive reinforcement and breaking down the process of teaching your dog new things. On the other hand though a year ago I adopted an extremely reactive and traumatized border collie that was just about to be euthanized for behavioral issues and once I started working with him with an e collar and prong (which I'd never had to use in the past with my other dogs) it was literally life changing. It was like a light bulb when off in my dogs head when I finally found tools that I could use to communicate with him with. Zak acts like these tools are completely cruel to use with dogs but when I bring out the ecollar my dog gets pumped and excited because he knows we're going to go outside and play, or go for a walk in the woods, or swim somewhere - he absolutely loves it. On the other hand if I start folding laundry my dog runs for the nearest hiding place because laundry is terrifying. For my dog a piece of laundry is the most aversive terrifying thing in the world.
Zak seems like he's never tried to use these tools (or at least not in the way I have), doesn't have the experience with a dog with hard behavioral issues - I've seen him train one dog with mild reactive issues and he didn't seem very successful with the training at the end of the series. I also haven't seen any positive only trainers online work with a truly tough reactive dog before with success. I'd love to see it. I've heard Zak and other positive only training saying that using an ecollar or prong to train your dog is going to ruin your relationship with your dog but I just don't see it with my pal. I don't get it. At any rate, I'm glad to finally see one of the only trainers I follow actually address these rants Zak's been going on lately - I had to stop following him and watching any of his content because he's gotten so preachy. It's fine to have your opinions on things but he's hurting the dog training world just as much as he claims balanced trainers are. I really appreciate your kind and compassionate response and I totally agree with you - anything can be used as an aversive, even folding laundry can be so much worse than a prong or ecollar for some pups.
He's actually hurting the dog training community way way more...these dogs end up getting put down....😔
In my opinion, Zak, like Stillwell, is a dogmatic zealot blinded by his ego and need to be right instead of do right.
💯💯💯💯💯💯
"Corrections don't ruin your relationship with your dog. Being unclear ruins your relationship with your dog." ~Shield K9 Dog Training
❤️🥹🙌🏽
The real problem IS.... Zak, and most other FF trainers NEVER show evidence of the end goal. I don't believe they ever get there, and his videos basically prove my point.
As a trainer I have many clients that come to me after positive only training has failed and spent thousands of dollars. The owners were told to euthanize the dog. I can fix 99% of the problems with the tools I use in a humane way in a short period of time.
@@randalsaul6612 money grabbers...and dog killers...
@@randalsaul6612 I’m also a trainer and I could have written what you’ve just said, word for word.
It’s getting worse too. It’s weird and also very telling how so many positive only/force free trainers are so vocal about how awful all balanced trainers are and how abusive our “methods” are. I hear this constantly from potential clients as well as satisfied clients who tell me that they really believed my training would be abusive and would ruin their dog. These are usually the client who came to me out of desperation after their positive only trainer had told them there was no hope and the only answer was euthanasia. 😢
@@randalsaul6612 Reminiscent of PETA. Shameful, horrific stuff.
@@inlinek939 it is a shame these positive only trainers. I became a dog trainer because I love to see the dog get what I teach them but mostly to save dogs from euthanasia. I don't understand how killing a dog is better than a good correction with the proper tool that will work? I have 3 dogs myself that I trained all of them and they look up to me for guidance and love me for my leadership. I love them also and never want to see them hurt. They are my babies
My top 3 issues with how this discourse is presented -
(1) Fundamentally conflating aversive and abusive. He makes a false equivalence to prong collar = corporeal punishment. Obv. corporeal punishment and child abuse severely harms people and can lead to aggression, self harm, etc. But is grounding a kid abusive? Is a speeding ticket abusive? A math test is going to illicit a similar response as the prong collar studies - kids get legitimately stresses out, their cortisol levels rise, they sweat, they feel uncomfortable, is this abusive? No.
(2) He makes a false equivalence to the scientific consensus around dog training (
Unfortunately, though, a lot of people don't know how to use a prong collar or e-collar correctly.
Exactly, overflowing shelters are the "emergency"
If I knew nothing else…. The fact that this video was not preceded by, interrupted by, or followed by an add for bark box, a treat or food company or any other dog vendor meant something. The fact that I have been training dogs for 30 years and no you have to tell them NO every now and then really makes me trust your judgment and opinion
👍 😂
I have never seen another dog use positive reinforcement on another dog. Why do some trainers insist that humans communicate with dogs using human communication methods rather than using dog communication methods?
Beautiful response. Firstly, side-stepping the term "vlog war" coming from the positive only trainer, when the balanced trainer asked for a conversation. That alone says so much.
"If merely the reward would would, you wouldn't need a harness or a leash." Haha - exactly.
The positive only campaign treats something as a moral issue that has nothing to with cruelty. My dog loves her prong collar. She wags her tale and leans into it when I bring it out.
100% I agree with Robert Cabral here -- it's an essential principle to use distance and respecting the dog's stimulation levels, positive only style. But as RC said, solving the problem quickly isn't about a "quick fix." It's about preventing a far worse disaster than the dog getting popped by the leash or stimmed by the ecollar. A dog-in-progress can slip a collar and race into the street, so training the dog ASAP to not chase cars, squirrels, cats is essential, of course, using the aversive tools in a way that is fair and not harmful. The massive assumption on the positive only side is that pain/discomfort in itself is cruel, and based on toxic masculinity (or something like that). Any method can be distorted based on the person employing it.
In itself, the physical discomfort caused by prong or ecollars doesn't hurt or bother dogs, if used fairly. Dogs don't interpret fair corrections as a trauma, but a communication that is essential for them live safely and kindly.
But the viewers on this thread all get that. This discussion is awesome and hopefully more people can judge less and learn more. Thank you, Robert Cabral, for your explanation.
So the "positive only" trainer wants a "war" and the "terrible mean, bad balanced" trainer wants to "see the dog-training community come together".
'Nuf said.
IMO "trainer" is very misleading word to use in a conversation about ZG. He is simply trying to capitalize on the terms positive and force-free. Only the real trainers should be part of the debate. A great example is Ivan Balabanovs podcast with Jo-Rosie Haffenden (he also did one with Susan Garrett which I found disappointing because she didn't listen to him and did way too much virtue signalling. I quite liked her before watching that podcast).
@@Arewal851 Yep, I'm with you on all that. I mentioned ZG because...well, this was about ZG.
Same exact reaction here with Ivan and Susan. Her abrasive and sort of scattered speech style has always been stressful to me so I've read her material vs listening to the audio. But that notwithstanding, her views are strange to me and extreme. Essentially don't even very gently use a nice little word in a loving manner as a correction. Odd.
5:38 so perfect
the fact that and harness or collar is aversive(and legally required in many situations/areas) when a dog is trying to pull to a street or other undesired location/target.
Zak is "positive only" as much as his audience are willing to be as delusional as Zak. It's all a farce.
Tools = bad but let me put a no pull harness on my dog that makes him feel like he will trip if he pulls. Or a head harness where you are controlling where the dog can look. I need it explained how these are less aversive than slight pressure on a prong to a trained dog. Seems like this man is in an echochamber where he trains low drive pet dogs only to me.
You are spot on Robert. My GSD has extremely high prey drive. Inside my house, she'll weave theu my legs, wave, high five or whatever for a piece of chicken. Step out the door with the squirrels and rabbits, almost gave me tendinitis. She'd choke herself out on a flat collar or drag me around on a harness. Day one on a Herm Sprenger, SHE self-corrected herself instantly when she lunged the first time. And yes, I put the collar in my own neck and had my son control me. Not at all abusive.
Yes, Jeff. Zak does not know the basics on behavior, human or animal. You German Shepard example, is an example of competing drives, competing desires.
In your house, there is no competing desire greater than the desire for a toy or a treat.
Outside, the GS has no desire greater than his/her desire to chase.
Those that admire Zak's training philosophy or techniques want to believe in a yraining that is not based on the reality of the nature of canines.
With real dangers, fantasies of what one wants to believe will lead to injury or death.
@@sheilasmith7779 the proof is in the pudding huh
@sheilasmith7779 I watched videos of Robert and Goofy and with a dropped jaw sat here in awe of the discipline. My shepherd needs work, but that's on me and my lack of knowledge and skill to help her become what she really could be. Do you know any capable trainers in the Harrisburg, Pa area?
@@jeffdeluca1153 No, but the online trainers you admire may have developed a list .
I'd put out a request to Ceasar's M. organization for a referral, or to all the trainers you respect.
There may be organizations that support this type of training, that have developed a trainer resourse list for different regions. Throw out a lot of requests, and wait.
I have not been training dogs for many years. I trained dogs to be service dogs for children with autism, where we could not allow any mistakes.
Before this, I read a lot of books on canines and observed different trainers. I observed dogs, all breeds.
So, I'd advise you to know enough about dogs, and the basics of what works with dogs, so that you will recognize a qualified trainer.
Various people recommend restaurants to me; but I must know their standards before follow their advice.
I also recognize my limits at my age, so if I am physically unable to correct a behavior, I will hire a trainer with my training standards to do this for me.
Keep looking and searching; you will succeed....be determined and patient.
I'll add that if we took a dog into the program that had major issues, we would discontinue the service dog training. However since these dogs needed ro be homed, I worked with the dog to correct the behavior....all inappropriate behavior...even aggressive dog behavior.
I owned a G.S. that failed our program. Best dog I ever had!
What a gentleman! Great response. Thanks Robert, love your work. ❤️
I don’t mind Zac, his videos have been useful.
But let’s face it, he is here to market himself and get as many clicks as possible. When someone uses things like ‘vlog wars’ it is for clicks to have intelligent and useful conversations.
Thank you to Robert for being one of the rare sane voices around.
Robert is before anything else huge gentleman and worm, nice person who loves the dogs on another level. Expierience and knowledge that he has is unfortunately not understandable for Zak George... the problem is in fact that this positive only trainers like him can lead to death of many dogs that have behivioral problems. You cant threat reactivity and agression with the threats... as you cant teach with the candy todlers that throw the rocks on other kids... I am honorec to be able to see Robert training and loving dogs . Big kudos from Croatia dear Robert.
I hate to sound mean and negative, but I also want to call things as I see them. Zak, along with all of the positive-only ideologues come off to me as neurotic, overly sensitive people who are blinded by their own emotions too much to see truth. They do things that make them feel good, at the expense of the dogs and clients they train. It makes sense then, that they hide behind credentials instead of logic and results. I used to watch his videos when I was first learning how to train my dogs, and couldn't even watch because I saw the things he was doing weren't even working in his own videos. It's very frustrating that these types of people are able to gain so much influence these days.
It's "woke dog training."
@@annabell3385 spot on!🙌
Zak George scares me because he reminds me of the typical charismatic cult leader. The fake forever smile combined with the penetrating stare he gives makes me shiver.
@@adamm5054 for sure there is some spooky stuff going on behind those eyes
@@adamm5054 Its called a Cult of Personality and he definitely leads it, so you're spot on in that assessment.
Very well put. Zach's always concerned about the mental wellbeing of dogs. But I'm a little concerned about his mental health and lack of reason.
I asked Nate Schoemer (my personal favorite trainer) to ask Zak to have a discussion. Nate said "I will, but he won't do it".
Nate is great
Nate is awesome!!
Of course.
Nate is the greatest of all time
Nate is the best trainer in the business.
Fantastic response, very well structured and extremely accurate in the examples. Unfortunately, I feel like Zak isn’t interested at all in any open dialogue, only pushing his one-sided view and rejecting anything that goes against it. The studies he quotes are extremely flawed (wrong subjective endpoints, ridiculous sample size, duration etc.) and after several people made that comment, he reverted to an appeal to authority by quoting associations and other bodies as proof, even though these are not expert in dog training as you clearly explained. And finally, the proof is in the pudding: watched a few of his videos, and he never sorts out the issues of the dogs he trains, and is happy cause “today the dog was only reactive across 450 yards vs 500 yards the week before.” Totally delusional…
All great trainers I follow on UA-cam have a personal dog that’s well-trained on & off leash no matter the distractions! That’s the very first thing I look for before deciding if I’m gonna follow them or not! They all use tools to train, so proof is in the pudding!!
Mr. Cabral, this was done with such respect on your part, and maturity. I don't know why there has to be such a war in the dog training community. Why can we not all just come together, and train our dog's in whatever way is best for them? I've personally never been a watcher of Mr. George's videos because I do not agree with all his methods. By calling out balanced trainers and usage of tools, and trying to get them banned, it will not help anyone. These types of people are closed minded and not open to reasoning.
This is one of the best response videos I have seen. You are spot on with every point and each response to Zak’s comments.
Thank you 🙏🏽
Spot on Robert I have four dogs who all wear e-collars. We live on a farm and a lot of the time I don't know where they are on our property which is totally fenced. I use the collars to call them in to me. They all get in line to get their collars on. I would never use them in a negative way. They are a great training tool!
In the community where I live GSDs are extremely popular. About 25% are well-mannered, They're usually wearing either an e-collar or a prong. The other 75% are pulling their elderly owners, have zero recall, are choking themselves out on a flat collar, and extremely reactive to not only dogs but humans as well. Our shelters are full of GSD and even mals. Usually 9 months old to 2 years old. Many spend five or six months in the shelter before just being euthanized. They can't be around kids, they can't be around cats, they can't be around other dogs, they need a female owner only blah, blah, blah. No they were never shown what to do, they were never shown how to act in a way that they understood. Nobody ever dipped into that pack drive by being a strong leader and making decisions for your dog instead of letting your dog make decisions for itself in different situations. My GSD wears a prong, it's not even attached to her leash anymore, but she knows it's there. She is the most well behaved pup in public, at parks, in stores. And she doesn't require treats for behaviors she already knows aren't acceptable because I've trained her proper. Positive only is dangerous for our society.
This is such a good comment! Sad but true. I have a female GSD, and I've done my best in training her. I get many looks because I'm a woman with a GSD, lol. A well behaved GSD. She loves going on walks and hikes on her e collar. And pretty soon she will be heeling behind our babies stroller.♥️
This is the result of too many breeders selling puppies to anyone with the money to buy one even if they have no business owning one. I imagine there are too many backyard breeders selling GSD and Malinois.
This sounds like a recipe for disaster was followed: a very popular breed x backyard breeders x people who refuse to train their dogs x the wrong training = an overcrowded kill-shelter.
Where is this shelter with so many GSDs?
@@inlinek939 i watch that Rocky animal rescue guy and he showed this shelter (maybe in Hawaii or CA) that has too any GSDs. Many pitbulls and other bullies in animal shelters.
You handled this wonderfully! As just a dog owner with a especially 'enthusiastic' young lab, I initially tried to follow only Zak's methods and videos. I have to say that for other dogs, they very well may have worked perfectly, but my girl was just not having it. She wasn't grasping self control past distractions. The clincher came when she took off towards a train to follow a small animal she deemed needed following. So I started researching more, tried a few trainers, one was just not able to get thru to Nikki, and one was WAY too negative based so we quit him immediately. I knew in my heart there had to be way to help her understand, so we kept at it. My girl is finally doing better and on her way to being a perfectly trained furry companion and that's thanks to finding your site, which really helped ME understand. I then found a local trainer that was similar to you. Thanks!!
Awesome!! 😊
I would love to see Zak train a powerful, dominant stubborn dog and see how far his treats get him!
Yes !!! this right here. My standard am bully starts to act like I'm his bitch if he gets too much treats, love and praise... He is a dominant powerhouse of a dog that can be intense at times... Zak George would have a great time with him 🤣
I so agree
I like zak I really do, but the only strong breeds I have ever seen him work with are 8 weeks old. I have had border collies (like zak) but also Rottweilers the training is different for sure
@@apacksjourney no 8 week old puppy is going to be dangerous. I have two rottweilers which I raised from pups. Comparing puppies to a 120lb fully grown dog is like comparing Mike Tyson as a toddler to when he was in his prime!
@@donsazon3608 you read my comment wrong I was being sarcastic. I said strong “breeds” meaning the only strong “breeds” he has ever trained are puppies I’m not sure how you got offended there
I want zak George to come onto a podcast to have a discussion
yeah me too, his line that "podcasts are not effective and don't reach as many people" don't smell right. An unedited podcast rather than a 3000 cut youtube video can really show the demeanor of the person and how much one is actually prepared on the topic at hand. He probably would not like to be put on the spot like that
He won't.
He won't. Lots of (really, really good) trainers that don't subscribe to his dogmatic psuedo-"science" have tried. He has turned every one of them down. Supposedly he's too busy... until he wants to argue with people in youtube comments. Then suddenly he has tons and tons of expendable time to tell people how they're wrong and he's right.
I used Zak's methods, bought the Book and Videos, until I couldn't anymore with my last Doberman. That was around a year old. I was trained the correct way of using a prong and e-collar by a nationally recognized, professional, trainer for professional working dogs (not sports). He also works with a highly respected behaviorist with ongoing studies of puppies through adulthood at three major US Universities. My current Dobermann is a Euro, Working line, prey monster that just turned one. We have worked on recalls and obedience since he came home at 8 weeks. At about 3 months old, at night, we took that last potty break before bed and one minute after stepping outside his prey drive kicked in for the first time and he took off after an adult deer. His recall finally worked after 30 yards when the auditory exclusion let up just as his feet hit the pavement. No cars coming. The next morning my heart finally returned to normal and we started e-collar training. Again purely positive worked until it did not. I live on 5 acres with a deadend road. Animals are everywhere and some of the neighbors don't respect the speed limit in spite of many people treating the road as a evening walking trail. When I hold out my e-collar so we can take an off leash walk my boy runs and sticks his neck against it. Didn't train him to do that. We are involved with IGP too btw.
Side note: Robert I greatly appreciate your contributions and honesty about training and training tools.
Balanced training has completely transformed my relationship with an abandoned 6-year-old GSD. This dog was so fearful for the first year of our life together that he didn't trust me enough to accept any positive rewards. Within minutes of our first prong collar session he immediately began trusting me more and looking to me for guidance. This structure was the missing piece making him feel unsafe.
I'm not a professional and I don't know enough to say whether a prong or e-collar is best for every dog but these tools saved my dog's life.
I'm beyond frustrated when I see the tools that literally saved my dog's life vilified by using intentionally incendiary words like "shock collar" or "spike collar". Language is important and the longer we allow people to incorrectly refer to these tools as shock or punishment devices the more likely they are to be outlawed.
I would ask anyone who believes in balanced methods to correct and educate anyone who still uses inaccurate and inflammatory terminology. As people who genuinely love their animals we owe it to them to change the messaging and image behind these tools.
Great answer! Esp training a dog in a quick and humane way when the dog puts itself in dangerous and potentially life threatening situations.
E collar training saved my dogs life. I purchased Larry Kohns book, followed up with a trainer and was working my dog at low level with basic obedience commands which he already knew and adding recall from a distance on a long line. One evening my dog went after a rabbit at a park we were walking through. My daughter had his leash and wasn’t prepared for the sudden pull from my dog and the leash was pulled from her hand. I dialed up the mini educator and yelled for my dog to stop and hit the button. He stopped right before the street the rabbit ran across and a large truck drove by at the same moment. I was so relieved I had his collar on him and the controller in my pocket. He’s living his best off leash life up at our cabin now, no more tie out ( no fence and 20 acres)
I'm loving this. Especially a prong collar used correctly is better than a bus hitting a dog. Sadly I think Zac has so much 💩 between his ears & got his head so far up his own ass he refuses to ever imagine not being always right. It's his way or no way & he thinks anything different to this must be wrong. Even the way he speaks to viewers on his videos, he speaks to everyone like uneducated idiots. He is extremely arrogant & immature, his whole attitude stinks 🙄 💩 This here is the voice of an expert speaking with years of hands on experience & common sense 👏 It's so good to see professional expert dog trainers finally speaking out like this..like adults. 😊 Thank you.
Very professional response. I agree with Robert Cabral 100 %. BTW, who is Zack George ?
Wow!! Refreshing to see this caliber of ability to not have a blog war - he didn’t even know what that meant - quality!! Love your approach to so many things!!
Very polite and considerate response, Robert. Well done.
Absolutely! And we've all had enough crappy angriness in this country. Enough already. Time to work TOGETHER.
My dog chases cars. There are cars everywhere. I started with a harness, then martingale. No change. I had to use the prong. Nothing else stopped her from doing this.
I don't see how an ecollar is worse or different than using electric fencing for livestock containment.
I adopted a 2 year old Great Pyrenees from the shelter. She was a wreck physically, needing surgery and other medical attention. The shelter said that the owner kept her tied all of the time because she jumped the fence. I live in a rural area but it is dangerous for a dog to go outside of the fencing. In cattle country dogs will get shot if they are on someone else's property.
She started jumping my fence almost right away. I spent several months with her leashed or tied when on walks until I could figure out what to do which may have been finding a rescue where she would have to live inside a 6 foot high wall. After much research I decided to use an ecollar, either that or she would be shot or run over on the country road.
I made a careful plan while being very nervous and cautious about it. For about 3 or 4 months she was only loose when I was nearby and could see her on my 20 acres. I set up training walks just for this. My plan was to correct her only when she was at the fence and when her front feet left the ground. I did not say anything, I wanted her to think that it was the fence causing the problem. I didn't want her to know that I had to be there.
With three perfectly timed "corrrections" she has never jumped the fence again in two years. It saved her life.
Part of the "science" is (or should be) observing dogs that are trained using various methods or tools. Watching any of the balanced trainers with their own dogs that are generally in their videos, their dogs are alert, relaxed and trustworthy. That should be the point.
Great response Robert. As a trainer who works with many many reactive dogs and had allot of success. Believe me I am not fixing this with treats. But like you said corrections are only enough to outweigh the desire and nothing more. I need the dog to have to make a decision, Is this action with the consequence? Once I put that thought in their head, as you know we then start to get changes. The community who has an issue with corrective methods are small but loud and this why we think most are against it when it fact it isn't the case. Love the info you share Robert, thank you from Australia.
Robert, you took the high road by not getting into a tit-for-tat argument. These are to schools of thought of training. So simply agree to disagree and be done. You made an excellent case for using an e-collar. The control distance provided by an E-collar was an excellent example of lease control. Another advantage is that a professional e-collar can be set at different levels of stimulus and/or can be set to a beeb sound or vibration mode only. It doesn’t get more humane than that. Keep up the excellent work. Your expertise speaks for it self judged by your following and the professionals that frequent your podcast. All one needs to see is how much love and trust Goofy has for you. Nuf Said.
if training result is positive / dog isn't hurt then it's never a abuse.
Wonderful job responding in a very respectable way. It would be my hope that people who mean well, and want the best for their dogs, but are struggling using only half the toolbox available for dog training would have open ears to this message. I think anyone with common sense would hear your excellent point about the dangers of car chasing in your example, and come to their senses that a clearer, quicker solution is best for all. Taking a longer training process and confusing a dog in the face of danger is more aversive in my eyes than fixing a problem like that in the first hours session.
(edit: spelling)
Excellent job Robert. Your work always shows that you have the best interest of the animal as priority number one. 👏👏👏
My hats off to you for responding to him on his terms Robert. I have tried engaging with him and his followers on Instagram trying to show real world examples of how balanced training can work after positive only has failed. I have found it is not worth the effort as they basically just repeat their believe the science, positive only mantra and attack anything that proves otherwise.
Science, my foot. I learned from another trainer that it was all based on surveys, which is not really a good scientific study. This positive only mantra is what gets people killed as well when they deal with street thugs, homeless drug addicts and mentally ill, and other misbehaving minorities (of course not all of them) who they believe we should give a hug and not be wary of.
In training any animal, you train the animal before you and you adapt the training to meet the animal's needs. E-collars can actually be used for positive reinforcement if you use the tone as a reward. A simple leash can be used to hit a dog and cause pain. It's about the dog, not the tools.
When I first got my Aussie, I stumbled upon Zak's video series with his current dog, Inertia. I learned a lot. But I also found his demeanor unappealing at my gut level. I think it's just a personality thing for me. Then I found Robert and it all instantly clicked for me. Funny how there is now this debate between them. I blend both styles and keep a collar on my dog when she is off leash, which is most of the time. I treat it mostly like a seat belt for unexpected encounters or surprises (moose, bear, mountain goats, etc.)
My Vet had no issues that I used an E Collar to help my dog break life endangering behaviours. Never do I use E Collars to teach anything. I took Zed to see a Veterinary behaviourist with a Phd. She couldn't help Zed at all in over an hour. I only took Zed out of curiosity.
Great response to Zak Robert, thank you.
I have a great vet/ e-collar story. We had a young vet start at a small town, local, practice. She had read everything about positive training, and it was the way to go. We had "discussions" for years.
Then one day I get a call, "You might not want to help me, but my new rescue bit the neighbor and the city attorney says if I want to keep my dog I have to come to you for training." By all means come out and lets see what is going on. Turns out, one of the most spoiled terriers I have ever met is what was going on.
I had the dog for three days, then we started training the owner. She was terrible ! Maybe the worst leash handler I have ever seen. So I just went to the e-collar because all her problems were at a distance anyway.
As bad as she was with a lead, she was that good with the collar. They both rocked it.
Months later I'd get calls. " We had a house full of people, the dog did great, he doesn't run out the door anymore." " I never know how much fun a trained dog is."
The way you truly change minds is with results. She will now happily tell you what a great tool a remote collar is, and how it saved her dog.
Hmmm so breaking behaviours & teaching are 2 totally different things??...Wow!!
Just another example how great a tool the e collars are is we live near a very busy road and I trained my dog to learn boundaries using the e collar so we can play in our yard safely. This morning, he grabbed his collar as a cue for me to go out and play. Sounds positive to me!
That is awesome!
Watching him (Zac) makes me shake. I’ve always wondered where he gets these dogs he uses these training methods with successfully… are they stuffed animals, are they clones?
I have no clue how his method is even considered actual dog training with a non theoretical or cartoon dog…
It is definitely life or death reasons why we need highly effective tools to manage, train, and heal these strong, willful, yet loving animals that have experienced great trauma which remains unknown to us. The fact that Zak attacks my favorites: Cabral, Beckman, Schroeder etc… confirm my love for these talented trainers that help these rescue dogs and working breeds live a happy life with their families. All these reasons too, are why I am on the journey of self teaching training which will take forever, but with these gurus I have seen massive changes in my personal dog, and multitudes of other pups I care for regularly!
First video I saw of ZG I thought I was watching a kids television presenter. He is so animated he would make an octopus look like it's got only 2 limbs. He is so 'cheesy' I just can't watch him. If I was a dog I would bite him just to make him shut the fuck up.
Good response. I just wish you could have a podcast about it. As a handler of a working line GSD, I could never have gotten my dog where he is today at 3.5 years old without effectively and humanely using tools. Now, I rarely have to use them based on my work. He just likes his Kong on a rope more than food motivation.
So well said. For all of us that love dogs and want to see them do well and be safe, it is good to have options. Like human children, not all dogs are the same. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. I would much rather teach my high prey drive dog using an e-collar than hope and pray he comes back to me for a dog treat instead of chasing that squirrel into traffic. A car can kill. A vibration or stimulus on a collar will not. I want my dog to live a long and stress free life by learning the rules. This is not cruel. Unfortunately it's the people that use these tools improperly that cause the problems.
I love your channel Robert. You do an amazing job and I have learned a lot from your videos. It is beyond obvious that you love dogs and only want the best for them. You are a great advocate for our canines. ❤
I use a prong collar. I tested it on my arm first. I yanked as hard as possible. I didn't have any issues. And honestly, I never have to really yank my dogs. Both are reactive enough to the collar that even a light tap reminds them that they're on a leash, they gotta listen. And they get treats when they do. If your dog is a reactive dog (to discipline) then you're not going to have an issue with a prong. Meanwhile my sister's dog doesn't give even a half a crap. The prong doesn't work on him. He goes for jogs/runs in order to distract him and keep him in line.
Different tools for different dogs 🙂
Very well said. Like anyone who understands dogs.. different methods work for different situations when used correctly. Even bare hands can cause harm. The idea that all trainers should stand together & respect eachothers methods to help dogs & their owners is what we would all like to see. Adults behaving like adults & showing respect for eachother. People can agree to disagree & that's healthy, that's life. All this hate though that's been going on. It's not pleasant to see, it's not healthy for anyone & it's certainly not helping dogs. Thank you for this video.❤
I’m shocked that this even has to be discussed. The world has gone crazy. Robert is absolutely right in having all tools available for the benefit of our beloved dogs.
Wow Robert,well said as always.
I've been watching dog trainers and learning or not but this sort of show man will ruine everything because he thinks he above everyone else.
Zak definitely hasn't got any ball to speak like a man and a true dog trainer.
I've seen cruelty in dog trainers and people don't really know what cruel really is.
Dog trainers should come together because it's definitely needed, especially now .
I know a lovely lady who works to help and rehomed Dobermans and she used force free methods.
She then went and learnt your methods of training so she could HELP those dogs that need it.
It's crazy how everything is going crazy.
I DO respect Zac for his passion and long time contribution to showing millions of people how to raise puppies. His drive to have this debate is helpful actually. I have discovered Robert, Ivan, Beckman, Upstate Canine, Larry Khon, Will Atherton, oh and that fascinating Dog Daddy guy lol!!! My two eye balls are observing dogs and OWNERS find peace, order and ultimately love with these incredible creatures we get to interact with. I am now obsessed with dog training and have my dachshund running agility courses like a boss! Ha ha
Dog daddy is not a good trainer. He have cases on him. He's a abusive trainer. The other trainers are great. Nate schoemer is another good one too.
@@cyborg8623 ha ha I will for sure check out that pod cast! Thank you.
Have to agree with another person here. Dog Daddy is an absolutely awful "trainer" who has no idea what he's doing. He puts up a lot of smoke and mirrors and glitz that would "wow" your average person who doesn't understand dog training into thinking he knows what he's doing, but his methods are purely abusive.
If you're looking for recommendations for trainers to learn from, try adding Shield K9 to your list. Haz is absolutely a phenomenal dog trainer and, imo, dog behaviorist even if he doesn't call himself one. I'd recommend more but you seem to already have all my other recommendations on your list lol
I absolutely hate dog daddy, such an arrogant dog abuser, when you see his comment section it looks like to be 80% bots talking about how amazing he is. All he cares about is money and social media influence/ego. I'm surprised people take this clown seriously.
zac also has 3 homes to pay for and has books to sell..hence using sensationlism.
This resonates with me because it was expertly defined. If the goal is fair and clear communication with another being and a specific tool has the ability to accomplish said objective, why is it relevant that the ignorant use of the same tool by amateurs or even those who intend harm should have any impact at all on the effective application of the tool.
100% agree with you.
I doubt this will change their minds as they don't want to 'hurt' dogs. Because aversive automatically means pain obviously! Sarcasm aside, I want to see a FF trainer take on dogs that have reactivity or aggression issues AND fix the problem. Without the use of medication.
You did a great job answering questions. E-collar is the only thing that I have seen that works when a dog chases deer. In most cases it snaps it out of this state and the dog comes back in most cases when called.
They think the discomfort of the collar is bad for a dog. I disagree. Why I say that is on the farm the dog keeps Coyotes out of the yard. The dog was outnumbered and dished out and received a world of hurt. The next night the dog was out there again looking for more. The prong collar is nothing to the dog and is just a reminder if used properly.
The problem is when people think of e collar they think of dogs getting shocked. They don´t realise that these devices have a tone warnings, and various vibration levels. What worked brilliantly with our dog was citronella spray collar, only sprayed twice after that the tone was enough to break the prey drive when she thought it´d be fun to chase something, and an immediate recall. Other friends who have E collars only need to use the tone in rare situations,
A study from 2017 and 2018 shown that both restrictive and non-restrictive harnesses impacted the action of the shoulders, non-restrictive harnesses impeded overall shoulder movement by 11°, which was 4° more than restrictive harness.
"I've looked at many different types of harnesses as part of my research and as yet haven't come across one that doesn't impact the dog, whether that is the stride length, the shoulder action or being detrimental to the proprioceptive system by cutting across the belly of the triceps. And this is all without the lead being attached and pressure being put on the harness as a result of a dog pulling."
- Lez Graham
Wonderfully put. You've articulated the whole situation extremely well. Wonderfully done.
Thank you.
It's up to the owner of the dog to make informed decision about how they want to train their dogs
Well said!! I like your approach and calm manner.
What a great video. I have trained with several professional trainers. The e-collar saved my dog once already. Best tool ever. He gets excited every time i pull it out! It means we are doing something he likes. A walk, car ride, playing catch!
Zack George statement of WAR shows you how far he is from reality. It's about caring, guiding and being a true leader to your Dog... using the right tools...the right way...this the philosophy of Robert Cabral!
You’ve always been well respected & for good reasons
E collar saves dog lives. High prey dogs need a little extra help sometimes. Ours just serves as a reminder and a "telephone" now. When he gets riled up with the neighbors dog and "forgets to listen", we use the tone to call him back. It makes it so he can be more free at the park or in the woods. He can hear the tone and run right back to us.
I love that Robert Cabral gives us free training to give our dogs happy lives.
Reasonable response. I have some insight. Zac wants to be right and enjoys attacking anyone using the lever of the academic, despite not being an academic himself. He seems always to have someone to “get cancelled next.” His fan base is a cancel culture mob, and although he seems to like dogs, he doesn’t know much about them. I have working dogs who respect me. Positive only would never work with them, but when I bring out their prong collars, they prance around happily knowing they get to go on a walk.
Mr Cabral, amazing respectful, genuine ,objective response 👏
Some ppl just dont get it
My pupper loves his prong collar because it means we are going on a walk or somewhere. He gets excited every time he sees it.
I totally get all those positive only trainers. "That problem will take several months to be solved. By the way, i take $80 per hour". But on the other hand, there are luckily also trainers that put the wellbeing of the dog and what is best for them in the first place.
You are doing great, Robert. God bless....
Hi Robert. I’m new to your channel and so far it has helped me a ton. Frankly, I wouldn’t ever noticed this guy Zak George existed if it wasn’t for this video.
I agree with manny of your listeners. Love your content and thank you for doing what you like to do best.
Robert you are very thoughtful and wise in your response. Hopefully some of his followers will see your response and think about what you are saying vs Zak. I'm not a beginner trainer and came across his videos several yrs ago. I'm sorry to say I found him to be a food and ideologue. I highly doubt you will change his perspective and it would be a waste of time to interview with him. Not because he holds to the purely positive camp or that people couldn't learn from different viewpoints, but because in my opinion he is not interested in having a serious dialogue about dogs and training. It would be unlikely he would take you up on it regardless. I hoped he would mature some in his ideology and skills since I last viewed one of his videos but it doesn't sound like it. Keep up the good conversations and teaching. Best to you.
Ecollar cruelty is ridiculous. I was walk-in my dad last week in the middle of nowhere and my dog went over a ridge and down a valley on the other side. I the heard some barking and didn’t know what he found. I recalled him but wasn’t sure he could hear me due to the ridge and distance, so I pulsed the ecollar on the setting which is the first setting I can actually feel anything, and he’s a Cane Corso. He comes flying back from quite far away. If I didn’t have the ecollar, who knows whether he’d of heard me. To deny the usefulness of the tool is objectively stupid.
When I became proficient with an E collar I used it off leash in public settings. One time at a party where my gog wanted to engage with people I knew weren't dog people. I had the remote in my pocket and gently reminded him not to engage. The dog unfriendly humans never had a clue and actually engaged me and my pup. Hopefully we changed their feelings about dogs by the use of that tool.😁
The proof is in the pudding there is zero comparison between Roberts dogs and zak's dogs. Zak's border collie can not be let off leash with distractions and competing motivators and he has had it from a puppy. i have four high drive working line border collies and i can take them anywhere off leash they are on whistle and voice commands and trained on livestock. There is no treat in the world that is going to stop the prey drive of a dog wanting to bite sheep. I was training my dogs and a woman walked past me, tied her two dogs up and came back to me and asked if my dogs are happy. i said do they look happy they are all off leash and fully under control running around the field on whistle commands having a lot of fun while your dogs are pulling you and forced to be on a leash through lack of training. They call themselves force free yet their dogs are forced to be on a leash all their lives, i just don't get it
I just watched several videos where Inertia was off leash and behaved wonderfully. STOP LYING.
@@sharonberry410 His dog is never off leash in crowded places i can take my four border collies through the city off leash. Open your eyes the vids don't lie
I got onto this content by the youtube algoryhymn as I follow balanced trainers Will Atherton and Tom Davis. Having rehomed an unstructured 3yr old Border Collie, I had no hesitation of taking him for an intensive day of training with the Will Atherton Academy and the first thing they did was put a prong collar on him.
The difference is incredible. He is learning better impulse control and much nicer to be out walking with because of this tool, which doesn't hurt him and to which he responds beautifully.
I've seen Zak's video's and he strikes me as being too self centred, and not too great as a trainer, it's about the dogs, not the trainer per se. Also, I've yet to see him with a real problem dog. His rants against Dog Daddy are spiteful and probably out of jealousy. Nice retort by an articulate balanced trainer. Thank you Robert.
Unfortunately many "scientific" studies start with a thesis and then structure the study to prove that thesis (subjective bias). The study can also indeed be cruel to the animal, more cruel than any e-collar or prong collar yet the people citing these studies do not see the cruelty of the study. Many people have this idea that any limitation of a dog's (or child's) freedom to do as it pleases is cruel. With the result that many dogs end up in the shelter when their owners cannot deal with behaviors that do not respond to "positive" training only (and children that end up with asocial behaviors because they have not been taught boundaries). Just repeating what you already said. Each dog needs training that is tailored to its specific behaviors. Thank you for your videos and teachings.
Behaviourist studies the behavior. Trainer teaches the behavior.
Balanced training truly is the best. We did both positive only and balanced classes afterwards and the positive only class was chaos every week with reactive dogs. The balanced course had more dogs in half the space and all the chaos was worked out after the first lesson. Not one incident afterwards and the class was filled with shepherds, bully breeds, cane corsos and mals. Keep up the good work Robert 👍
Robert, I think your approach is perfect and you have more patience than I about Zak. I also followed him as many of his techniques are effective for many dogs (not all and I can attest to this first hand - and you address this effectively). I just watched Zak's video and he lost me at the statement of his position being a "scientific consensus" and with a level of prefect assuredness instead of humility and collaboration. Keep up the good work. I think time will prove that the balanced approach is by far, superior than a pure positive all the time for all dogs. As an aside, I tried several of his techniques (my third GSD) on my working like Czech working line GSD and they simply do not work in isolation. It simply takes some minimal level of aversives in a balanced approach, at least for the dogs I have had and each dog has been different requiring more or less. May be why I never see him work with working lines, like these (Czech, Dutch, West working lines among others).
This is a very good and valid point: My shih tzu has been trained 100% positive, however I have said no and i have given him rules - enough so that he could walk anywhere off leash. He is the best dog ever, while my GSD has a high prey drive and could not care less for the treat if she saw a cat. Eventually it led to leash "aggression", very similar to the Koda GSD in one of the videos here. Now however she is becoming calm and collected, and I am just loving how our relationship is developing.