An inexpensive quality alto trombone
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2018
- This video is finally my good answer to all the people asking me about a quality alto trombone that doesn't cost too much.
If you want to try learning to play alto, you probably don't want to throw $4,000 at the experiment! I bought the cheapest alto trombone I could find on eBay and within this video I talk about it and record a comparison between it and my Yamaha YSL671. I also recorded a tuning test to see how accurately it plays.
It's called a Moz.
The Yamaha sounds better, but the Moz sounds fine, especially for the price.
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I bought the Moz. Really like it. Going get to get your alto book soon. Have improv savvy already. Good stuff
I bought the Moz and it is the first alto trombone i’ve played. I find myself watching your videos alot for help. Also bought your book. Really nice investment. Thank you for your help!
Thank YOU, Derik. How's is coming along?
Sir. Where i can conctact you, maybe on instagram or facebook, coz i want to lear alto trombone..
You ever play a JP136? It goes for a bit over $400 and they also have another model (JP236, I think) that's a bit over a thousand dollars. I haven't played any of the other JP instruments, but, at that price, figured I'd check out their alto.
After you've demonstarted your Moz alto in this vid and put it up against Yamaha alto and made a conclusion "Why to pay more?" - now Moz costs $279 on Amazon. Did you realize you'd promote it so well?
I'm a (very) amateur tuba player who first started playing brass on a trombone way back in the day. I just recently heard about the alto trombone and have wanted to try it out. I was able to find one of the Moz trombones and should have it tomorrow. I can't wait to play it! I'm sure it'll be a train wreck starting off but that's what practice is for. :)
I own a moz and I think it’s grate especially as I’m not gazing into my future as a master trombone player!
Great value. Excellent sound.
The "Moz" looks exactly like the "Song" alto I own. There may be other "brands" by the same holding company...fairly fast nickel slide and slightly asymmetrical tuning slide. I agree that this horn plays well beyond its price point. Thanks for your review.
Im borrowing my friends MOZ. Good quality horn for the price! Plays in tune and well, great way to get into it.
Following my previous comment, I just unpaked my new John Packer (no pun intended) JP136. It is definitely worth a Music Savvy review! It's easier to blow than my "Song", has a bit better tone, a bit better slide, and a much better case. I personally think the John Packer Web site description of this instrument is a case study in truthful advertising. Best wishes, all. 😊
Thanks for the video! Bought a Moz on eBay and also got some small white gloves. Excited to learn it!
Ah yes, the white gloves. Let me know what you think of it once you play it for a while! I found the manufacturer in China and sent them a note about this video. Unfortunately, the email listed under their website got kicked back, so I put a stamp on an envelope containing a printout of the email. How's that for high tech!!
The music and musings of Michael Lake That’s hilarious! Mail the email. 😂
I had a feeling it would be produced in China. The one I bought was stateside. I did buy a Maestro trombone from China several years ago because it was nickel plated. The F attachment was put in backwards and the slide I believe was made out real nickel because it was so heavy. Waaaay heavier than any slide I’ve ever owned. I’ve bought a couple of other horns from other countries and while they sound nice they are cheaply made. A valve trombone from India is the latest to my collection. Pretty sure it was made from aluminum foil. 😂 Has a nice French horn sound to it though.
I played a Conn 36H and I thought it sounded good but I have nothing to compare it to because that's the only Alto I've played
A final note. After much $$$ experimentation, I have found the somewhat-obscure Bach Megatone 11C to provide absolute sonic revelation on both my "Song" and JP136 altos (complimenting my embouchure, anyway)...alas, not so much on my unbreakable, dirt-cheap pBone Mini travel bone (with Yamaha 'silent' system (a useful thing because the pBone's native sound would only add insult to injury for bystanders)).
Great review! Love your site and your music. So, I'm a definite believer in keeping the more quality instrument makers in business BUT.... I'm not made out of money nor time. So why save $2K - $4K to buy something that may not be for me, right? I got a used Moz about 2 years ago and the dang thing mostly sat in the case until about 3 months ago. I now find myself with more time to practice and, like you, I find it to be a decent instrument. I had heard so many bad things about playing alto from other tenor players over the years and how out of tune it is. I suspect this was more tenor players that just didn't want to learn a new instrument or treated the alto like a tenor. I'd wanted to try alto for years (why I didn't check one out in College still escapes me) but it wasn't until I happened upon your channel and website that I felt a real need to fulfill that desire. I'll be picking up the alto book at some point this year to really give it a go but I just wanted to drop these (too many) lines as a thanks! Note - sadly, the Moz is no longer under $200 on eBay or Amazon. Still relatively cheap at around $300 compared to $2K+ for a new Conn or Yamaha.
Better late than never. Glad I could contribute to you playing alto. I would agree that it's likely a lot of complaints about alto intonation is from tenor players not used to the alto. There was a story told to me about JJ picking up and trying to play an alto before putting it down in disgust asking, "What is this shit?" Let's just say that it is not exactly a tenor. But it is learnable and when you are ready, I think my book will help you get up to speed much quicker.
Great coverage...I'll think about it. Thanks. BTW I was considering a $417 John Packer Alto (their 'student' model) which has supposedly been welcomed by some horn players as a 'doubling' horn. Don't know if you've seen or tried the Packer horns - I have seen the Shires too at the NAMM show, but didn't know about your comparison base when I tried them out. Thanks for the tip...
Thanks for your video. Very interesting. I also play a Yamaha YSL671. I was interested that you said you were using a 6.5AL mouthpiece. Is this the usual mouthpiece that you use with your Yamaha?
Yes. It is pretty much the only mouthpiece I've ever played. I recently had Doug Elliott make me his version of it. A little more open in the throat. I like it. It's what I used in the video.
Thanks for your reply. This is really helpful. As a tenor trombone player who occasionally doubles on alto, I have been using the mouthpiece which came with my Yamaha which is very small. I will try the 6.5AL as I am sure that will be much better for me.
Because all I play is alto, it has always been important to me that I don't sound like a small thin trombone. The 6 1/2 allows me to blend with the tenors.
Buying one when I get paid
I bought a MOZ bass trombone with just an F key on eBay for $455. Listed as used but looks new. I'm happy with it, but one unusual feature is that the tines of the inner slide are not fixed rigid with respect to each other, but can swivel independently. Maybe this is to lessen the chances of them getting bent. Does anyone know if this Is a feature of all MOZ trombones, or just of this particular model?
It's hard to make a good comparison between these horns when the sound goes through a mic, editing, YT compression, and my shitty laptop speakers...
You're right, but what I tried to convey, more than a sound comparison, was that it could be played with facility and over the full range of a normal horn. After all, guys often say that their cheap alto has no seventh position.
Another important consideration is that these chea(t)p Chinese "models" may indeed sound good but after couple years of regular playing they begin to fall apart and red rot beging to eat them. Many report on similar trumpets that their "stainless steel" pistons begin to corrode. So, you always get what you pay for unless you buy an older used US-made horn in good condition.
Does it last though? After almost 3 years?
Looks like the discount code has expired? Just tried it and no go
Does this instrument happen to come with a case? I’m a Junior in High school who wants to give Alto a try because of the range required in many Pieces that I’m playing and I would like to know if I need to get a case for it as well
Colton, yes it came with a pretty nice hard case. I will share with you that in my experience, range comes more from the mouthpiece than the horn. It's a bit of a misconception that the alto facilitates a higher range. "Hey, play a fourth higher with an alto." I play a 6 1/2 AL and I have pretty much the identical range on the alto that I did on the tenor (if I can remember that far back!). Altos come with shallow mouthpieces, and while that may help increase high range, it also makes for a thinner tone. That's why I've always stuck with my 6 1/2. Best of luck to you!
Doug Elliott mouthpiece, this can make a great difference, with any trombone !
I just recommended Doug to someone 10 minutes ago: www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/
Is there any difference between an orchestra alto trombone and the moz? Not in a matter of quality but in a matter of size and bore size.
No difference in size. Just quality. No self-respecting symphonic trombonist would play a Moz. I'm being funny. I'm not sure how much difference the audience will hear between the two. But you would have to fix the slide. That's the biggest difference. As it came out of the box, it's not a professional level slide.
Hi Micheal, I can’t find the Moz here, did you ever try the gear4music alto? Thanks
I think it sounds fine. I own one but it is the only alto I have played. Slide is very smooth and tuning slide moves freely without sticking
Shires Q35 Alto Trombone...2100.00...MOZ 200.00...
The Moz sounds more airy, slide is also everything for a bone player too..
I got myself a so called ‘hardly used, perfect condition’ Elliott Brass alto second hand, but unfortunately will have to take it to the shop to realign/fix the slide. Otherwise feels well made, dual bore, came with a 9E mouthpiece, I’m finding a King 7c my works well, the 9E has a too sharp rim for me. Let u know how I go after it’s realigned. I spent $700. AUD not wanting crap.
Moz is a Chinese "Bach Prelude" knockoff. Made in the same factory as JinBao
Thanks. I'm still trying to find the businesspeople who run the brand/manufacturing. Do have any idea who they might be and where I could reach out to them?
@@mymusicsavvy
The best I can do is give you their website, as EVERYONE sells them, with their own logo on it of course. jinbaomusic.com
The instruments are more than decent now. The prices are unbeatable. JinBao has a gigantic factory in Tianjin City, China. Phone: 86-22-2924-1326
@@chrisg0001 Thanks for that! I'm going to reach out to them and see if they have any marketing for their horns. Maybe they'll share this video. Who knows...
what is an ITF?
Can you vouch in any way for the Moz *Soprano* trombone? I saw it was selling for $189 as well and it piqued my interest but I don't want to shell out $200 for something which doesn't work :/
I had no idea there was even such a thing, so sorry, I won't be any help. I bought their first alto. Are you sure it was a soprano you saw and not the alto??
@@mymusicsavvy it was definitely a soprano. I actually discovered it while looking at the alto. It was in like the recommended items section
@@SipsNumberOneFan Well, I'd love to hear how it sounds. If you buy it, put up a recording of your playing. You could post something on my blog.
@@mymusicsavvy it appears they stopped selling the item on the 24th of November :/
Moz is most-likely a Jinbao rebrand as they have about 80-90% of that market for student-quality horns. Jinbao makes some quality instruments for commissions that pay for the extra features/finishes. You'll find the " Soprano Trombone " with the trumpets as it is marketed as a slide trumpet. I have a number of Jinbao instruments and they all need extra attention as far as oiling, cleaning and regular playing to keep them in good condition.
I think another nice recommendation for an alto trombone on a budget would be the p-bone mini, which Mike you happened to have tried out a number of years ago.
Yes, it might sound terrible compared to a Yamaha, Moz, or any other Alto trombone out there on the market, but at the same time you're paying less then a Chinese no name instrument that not many people seem to have any honest opinions or any honest experience on.
At the same time, you can't expect it to be as resonant and full sounding as a normal brass alto because it's constructed out of ABS plastic, which doesn't resonate as freely as metal
The people Mini is also advertised as a child instrument
Seems to be a copy of Kühnl & Hoyer Slokar Eb- Alto Trombone 175.
I bought one of these and your book. The Trombone slide is really rough and there was black stuff on it. I wiped it down and and applied lube but it didn't matter much. Maybe a deeper cleaning will help. Any tips on making the slide work?
Agree that a good clean will help, ie use a rod, snake etc and gently hose out all the factory dust first, then slide cream and water spray.
If I were going to get my Moz slide working well, I would take it to my local slide guy. If it were my only alto, I'd invest a couple bucks to transform it into a really well working slide.
I couldn’t find the trombone
Hi. I think my trombone is from the same company, I bought it 7 years ago it is a Jinbao alto trombone. Complete with white gloves !
I got mine from the The Horn Guys
www.hornguys.com
. They (still do) import trombones, select the best and throw the others away. They also fit a new leadpipe, the "Stauffer" which all means the cost is a lot more than the one you talked about. I agree with you - the horn is very good value for money.
Agreed. They make a couple versions and the also private label them as Selman, Stirling and others with custom tweaks. I've seen dual bore version and trigger models. They do 2 basic styles. This one has a fixed Leadpipe the other is removable. I recently bought the latter used on eBay. It had the "improved" Leadpipe the Horn Guys offer and it does play more open with that one. I'm still feeling out alto. At 59 I'm getting a late start. 😳
Actually, 59 is the perfect age to start playing alto!!
Coincidentally I am 59 and starting to mess around with brass instruments. I started with cornet a little while back, but really dig the sound you get on the alto trombone. This would make an inexpensive experiment. On the other hand, as a pianist, I have a very "3-dimensional" grand.
I've been using a 'Roy Benson RBAT201' for some time. It put me back about 200 bucks on Amazon, and it has been able to do everything I need it to. It appears to be out of stock on amazon (www.amazon.com/dp/B002CN5VM0), but other brands have popped up with the same pictures (maybe the same horn rebranded?). Slide works well (not as well as my shires but no big surprise there) and the mouthpiece it came with was crap, but I've recommended it to all of my colleagues.
I'm not sure an alto would be an appropriate first trombone for a child (other than for the size) - so not sure why childrens' gloves were included here. A kid isn't going to want to learn a whole new set of positions when taking up the tenor. Better to learn the tenor first when starting out.
So start kids on alto. No need to learn tenor positions. Too many people think myopically that tenor is THE trombone. We don't think that way about tenor and alto sax. Regarding the gloves, it's an addon the manufacturer provides, maybe for handling the instrument.
@@mymusicsavvy I guess there's no GOOD reason a kid (or any person) couldn't start on the alto. Might be an interesting thing at that (-: I began on a straight tenor and then went to a King 4-B tenor/bass and finally to a Bach double-trigger bass - so I went constantly down rather than up LOL Two questions about the alto: 1) are altos made with a trigger and 2) would such a trigger allow the alto to play most of the tenor's range? Say, for example, the famous solo in "Bolero"?
@@brandtbecker1810 Yes, altos are made with triggers, but I always wanted to lightest and simplest horn possible, so I never opted for the trigger. That trigger would cover the Ab down to E that is missing on the alto, a fourth up from the missing Eb down to B on the tenor. I've gotten pretty good a faking those 5 notes anyway. In my book, Alto Trombone Savvy, I show how to use those notes for ear training.
Yamaha sounds much better friend
Five years later, not I would say that my silver Adams alto sounds better - at least closer to the sound I want to project.
Dude, even with all these electronics between us I think that Moz sounds like garbage! I guess I'm the only one. It's not even close. Blah!