"...and you do not have to concentrate on it anymore...so that the subclass feels like its playing nice with the rest of the class, and not shutting your own class down." **CRIES IN RANGER**
Yeah they did Ranger Dirty. Cleric gets a way to free cast, no concentration on cool stuff and so does Sorcerer... But Ranger having an extra D6 is too strong
Light Domain. 01. Domain spells have changed a lot. Less fire and more vision spells. 02. Warding Flare - can help you and another. Also get back on a short rest. 03. Corona of Light - imposes disadvantage on spells and chanel divinity.
@@RulesLawyerDnD seeing your comments is amazing because I still can’t watch this video until tonight. You are amazing, keep up the good work! Thank you!
01. Divine order - pick caster or melee protector. 02. Spell casting - every level up can swap a cantrip. 03. Channel divinity option Divine spark - harm or heal option. 04. Turn undead has been redesigned - incapacitated and frightened. No more full move away. 05. Sear Undead - blast undead with Radiant damage. (Edit) 06. Level 7 blessed strikes choose extra damage on cantrips or melee. 07. New divine intervention - use it choose any cleric spell of 5th or lower and isn't reaction. Free cast and no Components needed. 08. Level 14 blesses strike get an upgrade. 09. Greater divine intervention - can choose wish spell and the wish spell has been expanded and better worded. 10. Spell list has been expanded.
Just a "feeling" here but has divine intervention evolved more into a rules mechanic at the expense of role-playing? I always loved the roll that I made very dramatic to see if the deity was listening. Now I feel like that's been stolen from DMs. 😢 Yes, I know I don't have to use this rule but I DO NOT LIKE IT when Jeremy & Co. Design out rules that have a basis in Role-playing.
@@RulesLawyerDnD And out the window my reasons for paladin go. I am multiclassing eldritch knight with cleric. 11/9 seems like a nice split for fighter/cleric. Both old, new and mixed subclasses of fighter and cleric. Than again I've always been crazy for rune knight/order, now eldritch knight/order is also looking nice. (I am addicted to Voice of Authority and if you also give Sword of the Paruns {it's a martial VoA. When you take the attack action an ally can use their reaction to make an attack within 60 ft!} I never want my dream character to die 😆😆😆😆)
@@SophiaAphrodite that rely on you using a concentration spell that they have designed the class around. Not using HM, you’re giving up your class features and abilities. It’s bad
@@SophiaAphrodite They literally designed the class around a level 1 *spell*. That has Concentration. They have a *spell* list, and they (used to) have some juicy unique spells on it. Even by your logic of "Rangers aren't spellcasters", they should at that point *not design the class around a spell*, let alone one that actively gets in the way of other play style options for a damage increase that falls behind other classes. As it stands, a Rogue that expertises Survival is a better Ranger both in class-fantasy and mechanically.
@@JohnvanCapelto make matters worse many of the Rangers good spells require concentration. I think I'm just going to say the level where you can't lose your concentration on Hunters Mark is now just going to be Hunters Mark is nonlonger a concentration spell. Let the player use their other cool concentration spells.
Trickery Domain. 01. Blessing of the trickster - can now work on self and can last until the end of your next long rest. 02. Invoke duplicate - can now summon on a BA with no concentration. 03. Higher level now only one duplicate but can now assist you and allies. When it vanishes it can also heal. 04. New feature - when you create the duplicate you can telelport or which placea. 05. Domain spells have been changed.
War domain. 01. Guided strike - works with you and others when you get it. No wait for higher level. 02. Domain spells have changed. 03. Can make an unarmed strike with the BA atrack now. 04. Regain war preist abilities on short rest. 05. Can now burn channel divinity to cast shield of faith or spiritual weapon with no concentration required. 06. Steel wind strike now on the spell list. 07. Avatar of battle now gives you resistance to B, P, and Slashing.
Life domain 01. Spell domain has changed to fit theme. 02. Preserve life now works on undead and constructs. 03. A lot of spells now can heal undead and constructs or some creatures can be harmed by healing spells.
The healing spells charming some creatures isn’t a Life Domain or even a Cleric feature, it was stated that is will be a feature of the monster itself. So it should be in the Monster Manual, where some creatures are o evil or dark that healing magic harms them or something
By not actually updating this subclass I think they nerfed it. The extra few points of healing from disciple of life AND blessed healer AND supreme healing are much less consequential than other buffs that they could have gone with. Pigeon-holed into JUST restoring life instead of enhancing the capability to preserve it. Makes me kinda sad.
I've been playing a Trickery domain from the Playtest, and it is AMAZING. The changes the healing spells (revealed to be going through) and the subclass abilities feel really nice working together.
The changes to classes have been great. All but the ranger. Someone at WotC hates rangers and it shows in these last 2 editions (I know this isn't a new edition but it might as well be called 5.5e)
It's not as bad as many think it is, the problem is that they designed so much of the class around a bad first level spell, but even if you ignore all those features Ranger is still a solid class.
@@logancuster8035 I feel like as a war domain, you should be able to make that bonus action attack without the need to attack in the first place, you should be able to cast and strike. Let's see what they planned
I played a cleric in the Mad Mage dungeon all the way up to level 20. From the point I got access to the divine intervention class feature, literally every day I prayed to have a 9th level Continual Flame cast on my shield, so it wouldn't be dispelled by darkness spells etc. I never once rolled a % success. I eventually had to cast it myself at level 17. The old class feature was so ill designed. I'm so glad for this change in the new edition.
Why do all these classes come with abilities to not require concentration on good spells, but rangers still have to concentrate on hunters mark. I’m homebrewing no concentration required at the lvl they gain the “damage won’t drop concentration” feature
If it's of any solace to you, it's totally fine to just remove concentration from hunter's mark as a level 5 feature for rangers. That alone solves a lot of problems. I chose level 5 because it's the safest way to mitigate level 1 dips and it's the level where rangers get 2nd level spells. Although I have also allowed it at level 1 in the past without encountering any issues.
@@nathanh2664 deserved nerf, divine smite not using a bonus action like every other smite feels like an oversight and no paladins should ever be able to smite twice (or four times with action surge) per turn
Don't know if I like the change to Dovine Intervention... But other than that, it seems great! Would have to check and conpare the Spell Lists for both editions, though.
Yeah they'll definitely be adding more and you could mostly tweak the other subclasses to work with the changes in any of the reworked classes. They just either have to delay for forever to get this out and then still make changes as it goes, or get a base version out and then people can add revamped subclasses as they go forward.
I'm pretty satisfied with this tbh. It really follows suit with the rest of the reworks in fulfilling the maximum amount of customization options for everyone.
Okay so now any sizable city with a middle level cleric should never have anyone who dies of anything other than old age or complete bodily annihilation. All you need to do is have lower tier priests cast gentle repose (as many times as needed since it’s a ritual) and wait in the queue until the 10th level cleric is free to raise the person Also with Healing spells damaging certain creatures things like Heal and Mass Heal will be devastating to anything that has that trait at 70 and 700 damage respectively
for the most part in lifetime of 5e level 10 is around where most campaigns ended actually, and in most worlds Player Classes should be RARE not every priest or worshiper of a god is gonna be a cleric
Divine Intervention is still dependent upon the deity. I don't think most gods would be fine with this abuse of power. Also, a high level cleric has other stuff to do than constantly raise people who died of unnatural causes. Plus, like dreamseer said above, even a level 5 cleric is rare and powerful.
Lots to be excited about here however i wish they would have given war cleric extra attack at level 6 instead and replaced their short rest dependent bonus action attack with something else. Why not? Certain warlocks, bards and the bladesinger all get extra attack.
Couldn't agree more. War domain has always been pretty far behind the others due to this oversight. They did increase the number of war priest charges by allowing them to be regained after a short rest, but the bonus action requirement hurts on a class that already has 1000 uses for its bonus action
@jdragoon099 that would be nice, but I can say the war cleric I played kept up with the fighter just fine with liberal use of spiritual weapon. Being able to heal and buff myself was icing on the cake.
I love clerics but I still think it's kinda a shame that you don't get a themed subclass feature between levels 6 and 17. That's a lot of levels to not get any new abilities beyond core cleric abilities. And, like, I get it, the core cleric abilities are extremely powerful and cool, but it does mean those subclasses are a little flavourless for a bunch of levels
As a cleric enjoyer, I love all these buffs to an already more than solid class! But this also brings into stark contrast just how dirty you guys did the Paladin by making smite a bonus action spell.
As a paladin player, I'm excited to try out the new paladin. The 2014 version of smite is so overpowered that it's actually become a story point that one of the other PCs stopped getting kills once my character was added.
While I feel 1/turn would have been enough, I definitely agree that smite in the past was a crazy nova ability and it definitely made people forget some really amazing spells the paladin could also cast (like divine favor, crusaders mantle, and destructive wave). I just hope we can still cast sanctuary. I love fully hammering an opponent and then casting sanctuary when blocking a door or passageway
Hi Verny.. Priests have always been a staple in my many TSR submissions thru the years. But I'm feeling like WoTC is making the game more mechanical than role-playing.
I'm loving all these changes, they make so much sense. especially origins, martials and wizard. The only change I don't like is that all subclasses start at lvl3. I never understood why some got their subclass at lvl2. But Sorcerer, Warlock, Cleric (and Paladin in 5e aswell) give me a weird feeling if they get their subclass at level 3. I know it's so you don't have to think about too much stuff on lvl 1 but I don't think anyone wants to decide what the source of their powers and foundation of their character is at level 3. My guess is that people will end up chosing at lvl 1 anyway. And at that point you can let them lock it in at level 1. I think this is also great for newbies since it gives them a specific tie to the world which can help cross that tough roleplaying hurdle. thoughts? Please someone come up with custom rules that let me lock these in at lvl 1 with featues so it doesn't jsut feel like pretend.
Do we know for a fact whether or not Divine Intervention lets you bypass the normal casting time of a spell? You can cast Raise Dead without expending a slot or a material component, but can you cast it in 1 single action instead of an hour?
The reason turn on dead never used the frightening condition is Because most undead were immune to the frightened condition. In the next monster manual But until then, turn undead is probably going to be pretty weird.
I currently have a 7th Lvl Cleric Tempest, I see WOTC didn't make any alternatives for, I will gladly run the 5th Edition PHB Character...some items in this new PHC I like but as far as our group is concerned, it is just a guide
Reading all the comments complaining about Spiritual Weapon now being concentration is hilarious. Y’all just mad you can’t power game anymore and stack it with spirit guardians
spiritual weapon is not even that good, not worth casting half the time. The only reason people used it is because it didn't use concentration. It was hard to justify casting it in 5e, now it's just garbage
Not really. It was OK - the main benefit was it not requiring concentration. Now it's totally garbage, not worth preparing. Only War Domain get any benefit of it now; for the rest of us, it will collect dust like the old True Strike cantrip and other worthless spells.
I like most of this, but Divine Intervention needs a hard nerf. I'd say limit it to spells that take an Action to cast. Raise Dead would have world shaping consequences if it could be cast every day without cost. Same for Hallow.
Light Domain Cleric is the best, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Flame Strike, all kinds of spells for the inner pyromaniac. Would like to see more ice and lightning spells to make an Aeromancer or Cryomancer wizard
I mentioned a creature called the Aralez in the comments of the Warlock video, but I'm gonna bring up here too. Mainly because the Aralez in its source material, Armenian mythology, is described as a divine canine with resurrection abilities, which are specifically in their saliva. From a lore perspective, it could that the saliva of an Aralez is a very potent resurrection material but it has been found that diamonds are decently reliable substitute because of how rare it is to encounter an Aralez or even get a small vial of their saliva. Every monster can have a story, mission, or campaign built around it, but the Aralez in particular is uniquely suited all of that. So, I think it's a bit of missed opportunity they've never shown up in any official D&D materials, to my understanding and knowledge.
@@thomasquesada7248 There are a lot of fun and cool creatures in mythology from cultures all over the world. And Armenian mythology doesn't get all that much attention globally.
Very cool and my favorite class. One day while I still draw breath, I would like to see the return of the evil cleric, but done as a subclass, and not just spell flips and alignment.
I think the war cleric should've been changed so that war priest allows you to extra attack once per turn by using it. This synergizes well with spiritual weapons, since it frees up you bonus action.
"You want to make damage or heal someone in every session, if you are not shopping". No. No you don't. You might play investigations or intrigues. I don't know how this is in US but in Europe this is rather usual in many groups.
It's the same here, although it depends on the group. But, most campaigns don't follow that formula, so the result is that if you're not shopping you want to be fighting or healing specifically because there is nothing to do in the module other than that.
Not being able to pick our circle until level 3 now feels like a huge kick in the balls even more so if you want to multi class. Keeping their core, what's more core than Devine domain?
9:32 one of the best things I noticed in Baldur’s Gate 3 was this change to Destroy Undead in that game, where it dealt damage instead of outright destroying, but, if the undead was weak enough to begin with or from taking damage in the fight you could still destroy it (if it got turned) With some regard to the dice gods as well
@@constantine7862They literally said Greater Divine Intervention gives you Wish. Which means you can cast any spell from any list. everything the original commenter said is possible
Glad there is a distinction between martial vs spell caster Clerics. If they’re giving Clerics some former none Cleric spells, I hope other spell casters can get Cleric spells. Giving Clerics access to Wish is really powerful.
Like the Smite for the Paladin can the clerics have a similar mechanic for the touch to hit spells like Inflict Wounds? If the cleric hit he consume the spell slot, if he miss no spell slot is lost. Is it a bad suggestion?
Me, waiting excitedly to see what my death domain cleric will play like when my campaign comes back off break. "And the foil of the life domain cleric is of course..." Aw yeah here we go! "... the war domain." 0.0
The spiritual weapon nerf definitely hurts a bit for all clerics, but I get it. I wish they would have just given war domain multi attack instead of the war priest charges and the need for your bonus action, but hey...... I still think the war domain will continue to be the weakest cleric subclass.
So Clerics I have played a lot. like even more than wizards. From my Iconic "Im not a healer" light clerics, to my Ironborn nature cleric, to the more subtle greatsword wielding noble human Galin master of the magic (Trickery cleric magician god), to my first cleric a Hill Dwarf Helga tempest cleric. My last cleric the one I'm going to compare here is the Goliath sailor Onyx war cleric serving the God "The Sailor". The sailor is very much a sea God, his domain being war. There's a legal hiarchy and he doesn't so much care about good and evil just defeating the lawless pirates and of course his enemy is The Storm a female Goddess represented by a spider (Its Loth with the Tempest domain) Onex has the Tavern brawler feat as well as the Athlete feat and uses a rapier and Shield. Divine order- is good. Tharmathurge- much more of a knowledge Cleric. Divine Spark- doing more harm helps my allies. Doing more healing not so much so. Turn undead- not only do they stay put but they also cower? sear undead- the undead nuke. nice blessed stirkes- more damage ... baby do fear the rapier... divine intervention- one extra spell... not what divine intervention was and its kinda a cheey downgrade healing or harm with the healing spell has come back. (don't mess with fireball)... guided strike- +10 for all. you get a 10 you get a 10. Friend of the rogue now... unarmed strike- kinda makes tavern brawler weak here but I love it. War Domain- casting shield/weapon is now a divne spell steel wind strike... nasty I love it.
Ruined the single most fun feature of cleric. Divine intervention made a cleric feel divine power. The dice roll represented the mysrerious will of the gods. Now you just get a free 5th level spell slot
I think that your level 1 choice is linked to your damage boost later on. Thaumaturge gets potent cantrips, guardian gets divine strikes. Could be wrong though.
Did i hear correctly that thamaturge adds 2 ability modifiers to 3 different skills at level 1? At that stage, the quantity and potency of the cleric's skill buff is greater than even the rogues.
Thaumaturge gives an extra cantrip and you can add your Proficiency bonus to Arcana and Religion a second time (expertise). But you can't get heavy armor or martial weapons without a feat then.
The trickster duplicate buff would’ve made Shadowheart so much better in BG3 because, no joke, in my 100 hour playthrough I used it once and never again because I did not know Withers can also ReSpec the other characters 😂
Im just mixed fealing on the new cleric. It sounds good, but with so many fantasy gods in dnd, 4 sub classes cant be represented. Even good to evil and chaos to law and the nutral aspects... it may work mecanically to wizard of coast, but they are killing the fantasy
@steveaustin2686 oh I know, I was just stating that wizards cut their nose off to spite their face. I tend to play forgotten realms world and there is no way the goddess of magic fits in any of these four. The wizards just wants every class to have a one box fits all with this new book. I'm just saying wizard's have 8 schools of magic and clerics needed all their domain's to account for all the beliefs.
@@MatthewHug-n6p More upgraded subclasses are coming in future books per comments by Crawford. If they updated every sub-class, the book would likely be twice the size. The old subclasses still work and homebrewing those classes will happen.
This isn't an entire new edition but just an update to the old one. If something isn't mentioned in the book, you can assume that's because they just didn't change it, unless otherwise stated by the developers.
@@catpoke9557 Meh, they did change enough that the 2024 rules are a 6th edition really. But the 2014 subclasses can still be used, along with the backgrounds and races. There just are some changes to be made to make them work with the 2024 rules.
I’m sorry, but isn’t the new Divine Intervention way to strong? Prayer of healing now provides a short rest when cast, and under the new DI description would be eligible, just like Hallow and Raise Dead. But… doesn’t getting a short rest in the middle of combat feel… strong? Rolling hit dice? Warlock slots? Focus points? Action surge/second wind? Hell, wizard could even swap a prepared spell knowledge! Am I crazy? Doesn’t that feel obscenely good? And you can just do it once every day?
As happy as I am about the buffs to Life Domain Cleric as someone who genuinely enjoys being the 'party healer support' role, the talk about War Domain reminded me about what still feels like the worst change in all of One D&D, and one they kept in despite the *tons* of negative backlash it got in testing: Spiritual Weapon requiring concentration. As a Cleric in general but especially as a support build type, I'm gonna be concentrating on Bless 100% of the time. Maybe sometimes Aura of Vitality, Beacon of Hope, or Banishment in specific situations as well, meaning that with the new version, I'd never get to use Spiritual Weapon anymore because Bless is just too good to give up, and unless I need Healing Word for something, my Bonus Action would pretty much be doing nothing at that point without SW to attack. I pretty much lose the ability to contribute to the fight directly and heal at the same time, or if not needed, double down with an SW attack and a Sacred Flame or rare melee attack. Just really feels bad to lose that extra bit of damage and action economy.
I mean, sorcerers and wizards rarely have anything to do with their bonus action. And when you choose to play your character primarily as a support character, supporting your other party members is unsurprisingly going to be how you contribute to a fight. You can still cast cantrips with your action if you want to do a bit of damage. A sorcerer or wizard who wants to play more of a support mage role will also be concentrating on something like haste, fly, or polymorph on a party member (or banishment, slow etc to debuff an enemy) and most of the time, they will end up casting a cantrip with their main action if they want to try to do a bit of damage and will have nothing to do with their bonus action. A life cleric always has the option to cast something like spirit guardians or one of the summoning spells if they want to do ongoing damage (just like a sorcerer or wizard could choose to use their concentration to try to damage enemies instead of supporting their party members). I get that it doesn’t feel great because it was something you could do in the past but it’s kind of the trade off for all support characters (your main contribution is support rather than direct damage of the enemy and that’s still super valuable).
They are going with 4 subclasses for every class in the game. Some good subclasses were left on the cutting room floor, and it’s really reduced options for clerics and wizards. While the system is somewhat backwards compatible with the older books, I expect we will see some of the favorites brought back in future books.
I know divine intervention sometimes never succeeds in a campaign... But that slim chance makes those successes so memorable. I'm sad to see that changed
So how is this all gonna fit if I choose a subclass that isn't covered in 5.5e? What about dndbeyond? Will we be forced for the new system or can we still use 5e in the app?
For old subclasses: lvl 1 features move to level 3 and you don't get their divine strike option because you already got it from the base class. For dndbeyond, they haven't mentioned that we are losing access to older content so right now I would guess that you can just choose not to run it as 2024.
i dont know about the divine intervention i mean like, it was soo much more roleplay in the older version and now only Cleric Spells and he says it is made for the raise dead spell so i dont know it isnt that cool to be honest, because like when my cleric says something thst i think is worth it you just get it without the roll
"...and you do not have to concentrate on it anymore...so that the subclass feels like its playing nice with the rest of the class, and not shutting your own class down."
**CRIES IN RANGER**
That's rough buddy
Yeah they did Ranger Dirty. Cleric gets a way to free cast, no concentration on cool stuff and so does Sorcerer... But Ranger having an extra D6 is too strong
Yep, other classes are allowed to have fun, but not the ranger, that was never allowed
😂
At this point, just play a fighter/druid to become the strongest Ranger XD
Can we have whoever made the Cleric rules take a second look at the Ranger?
Yes please. 20th level Cleric: I can cast wish. 20th level Ranger: I can do 4 extra points of damage... Maybe...
@@CriticalCharacters 20th level Monk - I get EIGHT ability score points (4 in Dex and 4 in WIS)
Light Domain.
01. Domain spells have changed a lot. Less fire and more vision spells.
02. Warding Flare - can help you and another. Also get back on a short rest.
03. Corona of Light - imposes disadvantage on spells and chanel divinity.
@@RulesLawyerDnD seeing your comments is amazing because I still can’t watch this video until tonight. You are amazing, keep up the good work! Thank you!
@@Silver_Anchor thank you. I plan on doing them for all the classes. I need to go back to do fighter and barbarian.
The whole "party of clerics" meme is about to become a WHOLE lot more viable and funny with these changes.
And they by law have to be called the A-men
that was already pretty viable before
Currently DMing an OOPS All Clerics campaign.
Meme!? That would be the best full class party. 😂
@@5-Volt Druids tho. And Bards.
01. Divine order - pick caster or melee protector.
02. Spell casting - every level up can swap a cantrip.
03. Channel divinity option Divine spark - harm or heal option.
04. Turn undead has been redesigned - incapacitated and frightened. No more full move away.
05. Sear Undead - blast undead with Radiant damage. (Edit)
06. Level 7 blessed strikes choose extra damage on cantrips or melee.
07. New divine intervention - use it choose any cleric spell of 5th or lower and isn't reaction. Free cast and no Components needed.
08. Level 14 blesses strike get an upgrade.
09. Greater divine intervention - can choose wish spell and the wish spell has been expanded and better worded.
10. Spell list has been expanded.
You’re a hero
You da best
Just a "feeling" here but has divine intervention evolved more into a rules mechanic at the expense of role-playing?
I always loved the roll that I made very dramatic to see if the deity was listening. Now I feel like that's been stolen from DMs. 😢
Yes, I know I don't have to use this rule but I DO NOT LIKE IT when Jeremy & Co. Design out rules that have a basis in Role-playing.
Sear Undead, as you’re searing them with radiance
@@RulesLawyerDnD And out the window my reasons for paladin go. I am multiclassing eldritch knight with cleric. 11/9 seems like a nice split for fighter/cleric. Both old, new and mixed subclasses of fighter and cleric. Than again I've always been crazy for rune knight/order, now eldritch knight/order is also looking nice. (I am addicted to Voice of Authority and if you also give Sword of the Paruns {it's a martial VoA. When you take the attack action an ally can use their reaction to make an attack within 60 ft!} I never want my dream character to die 😆😆😆😆)
“Playing nice with the rest of the class and not shutting your class down.” Genuinely, where is this logic for the Ranger???
Rangers are not spell casters. They have ABILITIES
@@SophiaAphrodite that rely on you using a concentration spell that they have designed the class around. Not using HM, you’re giving up your class features and abilities. It’s bad
@@SophiaAphrodite They literally designed the class around a level 1 *spell*. That has Concentration.
They have a *spell* list, and they (used to) have some juicy unique spells on it.
Even by your logic of "Rangers aren't spellcasters", they should at that point *not design the class around a spell*, let alone one that actively gets in the way of other play style options for a damage increase that falls behind other classes.
As it stands, a Rogue that expertises Survival is a better Ranger both in class-fantasy and mechanically.
@@JohnvanCapelto make matters worse many of the Rangers good spells require concentration. I think I'm just going to say the level where you can't lose your concentration on Hunters Mark is now just going to be Hunters Mark is nonlonger a concentration spell. Let the player use their other cool concentration spells.
@@swordplaysorceryto be fair, they changed a lot of Ranger’s concentration spells to not require concentration to be compatible.
Trickery Domain.
01. Blessing of the trickster - can now work on self and can last until the end of your next long rest.
02. Invoke duplicate - can now summon on a BA with no concentration.
03. Higher level now only one duplicate but can now assist you and allies. When it vanishes it can also heal.
04. New feature - when you create the duplicate you can telelport or which placea.
05. Domain spells have been changed.
Thanks for your work condensing the video
shadowheart walked so that we could run
@@carpetdragon6066 that's what I do. I can't wait to get the PHB so I can deep dive the rule changes.
War domain.
01. Guided strike - works with you and others when you get it. No wait for higher level.
02. Domain spells have changed.
03. Can make an unarmed strike with the BA atrack now.
04. Regain war preist abilities on short rest.
05. Can now burn channel divinity to cast shield of faith or spiritual weapon with no concentration required.
06. Steel wind strike now on the spell list.
07. Avatar of battle now gives you resistance to B, P, and Slashing.
I'm just happy that most clerics will need to concentrate on Spiritual Weapon.
@@broomemike1 Why?
Wasn't Spiritual Weapon already non-concentration..?
@@MortiePL Because it takes up so much table time to have an indestructible summons on the table. It should take more resources at that point, IMO.
That changed in UA @@bubblischh
Life domain
01. Spell domain has changed to fit theme.
02. Preserve life now works on undead and constructs.
03. A lot of spells now can heal undead and constructs or some creatures can be harmed by healing spells.
YESSSSSSSSS
The healing spells charming some creatures isn’t a Life Domain or even a Cleric feature, it was stated that is will be a feature of the monster itself. So it should be in the Monster Manual, where some creatures are o evil or dark that healing magic harms them or something
@@RadiantHealer nice catch
By not actually updating this subclass I think they nerfed it. The extra few points of healing from disciple of life AND blessed healer AND supreme healing are much less consequential than other buffs that they could have gone with. Pigeon-holed into JUST restoring life instead of enhancing the capability to preserve it. Makes me kinda sad.
You're doing the Lord's work (pun intended), thank you!
Love how Astarion is in the background of the turn undead art.
They nerfed Ally Beardsley with the divine intervention change
Right???
Blimey!
they sure did, she has absolutely broken her games with this spell lol.
@@Fro609 Ally's pronouns are they/them 🙃
@@zeybarur alright cool i suppose? I was talking about how she has absolutely broken her games with the divine intervention spell though.
I've been playing a Trickery domain from the Playtest, and it is AMAZING. The changes the healing spells (revealed to be going through) and the subclass abilities feel really nice working together.
You mean it works better than a crappy invisible for less than a round option?!
Hmm, could have used some of those design philosophies when updating the Ranger...
The changes to classes have been great. All but the ranger. Someone at WotC hates rangers and it shows in these last 2 editions (I know this isn't a new edition but it might as well be called 5.5e)
Yeah Ranger is the Rodney Dangerfield of the D&D classes.
It's not as bad as many think it is, the problem is that they designed so much of the class around a bad first level spell, but even if you ignore all those features Ranger is still a solid class.
This makes the War Domain sound even more spicy than it already was, I’m excited for this!
Best class in the game. Light Domain better still get scorching ray and fireball.
Favorite class too. I hope they make the War domain interesting to take compared to Life and Light.
@@thebenjamintremblayI really liked how they made your bonus action attacks come back on a short rest.
@@logancuster8035 I feel like as a war domain, you should be able to make that bonus action attack without the need to attack in the first place, you should be able to cast and strike. Let's see what they planned
@@thebenjamintremblay that’s exactly how it was in the play test
@@logancuster8035 did not see that, awesome then, thanks !
Party "Oh no, how do we bring back our beloved party member? We don't have any diamonds!"
2024 Cleric "Hold my holy symbol..."
Honestly often Revivify is enough, if I'm a Cleric I'd rather use that on Summon Celestial.
Revivify needs a diamond@@gyorgyor7765
I feel like more people would play the heavy armor combat cleric if it didn’t feel like that was basically a paladin’s whole deal.
I played a cleric in the Mad Mage dungeon all the way up to level 20. From the point I got access to the divine intervention class feature, literally every day I prayed to have a 9th level Continual Flame cast on my shield, so it wouldn't be dispelled by darkness spells etc. I never once rolled a % success. I eventually had to cast it myself at level 17. The old class feature was so ill designed. I'm so glad for this change in the new edition.
The funny thing about the subclasses is they are practically fighter-cleric, rogue-cleric, wizard-cleric and cleric-cleric
CLERIC my beloved!!! I am super stoked for this!!
I'm sad to see that Tempest Domain was removed, as that was my favorite. I hope that comes back in a future book
Still a subclass, this is not a new edition. This is an update to an older system. Consider it a 5.5e
Tempest didn't really need an update. It's still plenty strong with the updates to the base class.
Druid got a similar subclass for tempest, give that one a try and druid plays similar to cleric
He even mentioned at one point mixing the new and old, so I will still be playing Tempest Cleric 😂
Why do all these classes come with abilities to not require concentration on good spells, but rangers still have to concentrate on hunters mark. I’m homebrewing no concentration required at the lvl they gain the “damage won’t drop concentration” feature
Wasn't expecting too many new and interesting things, but I love the change to the Trickery Capstone, and the reveal of heal-harming is NICE.
All the classes presented so far are awesome (except from Ranger 💔), let's hope for the best for the last ones!
If it's of any solace to you, it's totally fine to just remove concentration from hunter's mark as a level 5 feature for rangers. That alone solves a lot of problems. I chose level 5 because it's the safest way to mitigate level 1 dips and it's the level where rangers get 2nd level spells. Although I have also allowed it at level 1 in the past without encountering any issues.
Paladin’s best ability was nerfed. Sadness
@@nathanh2664 deserved nerf, divine smite not using a bonus action like every other smite feels like an oversight and no paladins should ever be able to smite twice (or four times with action surge) per turn
@@thomasquesada7248VERY UNHAPPY ELDRITCH KNIGHT/CLERIC noices.
@@thomasquesada7248 that still wasnt good if you calculate the damage.
Don't know if I like the change to Dovine Intervention... But other than that, it seems great! Would have to check and conpare the Spell Lists for both editions, though.
YESS!! I can kill Wraiths with Cure Wounds again. Or heal my friends and hurt enemies with Mass Healing Word.
Only bummed that theyre dropping it down 4 subclasses. They were a lot of great ones but i understand the uniformity theyre going for.
I'm hoping they'll add them back in with later books... hopefully! There were A LOT of subclasses for both Cleric and Wizard that were cut
@@rogen8094 Based on a comment Crawford made in one of the videos, other subclasses will almost certainly be added later. And homebrewing exists. :)
That’s how I felt for Wizard
Yeah they'll definitely be adding more and you could mostly tweak the other subclasses to work with the changes in any of the reworked classes. They just either have to delay for forever to get this out and then still make changes as it goes, or get a base version out and then people can add revamped subclasses as they go forward.
Sure, but they're all still there for use. It's not a new edition, it's just an update.
I'm pretty satisfied with this tbh. It really follows suit with the rest of the reworks in fulfilling the maximum amount of customization options for everyone.
Okay so now any sizable city with a middle level cleric should never have anyone who dies of anything other than old age or complete bodily annihilation. All you need to do is have lower tier priests cast gentle repose (as many times as needed since it’s a ritual) and wait in the queue until the 10th level cleric is free to raise the person
Also with Healing spells damaging certain creatures things like Heal and Mass Heal will be devastating to anything that has that trait at 70 and 700 damage respectively
for the most part in lifetime of 5e level 10 is around where most campaigns ended actually, and in most worlds Player Classes should be RARE not every priest or worshiper of a god is gonna be a cleric
Divine Intervention is still dependent upon the deity. I don't think most gods would be fine with this abuse of power. Also, a high level cleric has other stuff to do than constantly raise people who died of unnatural causes. Plus, like dreamseer said above, even a level 5 cleric is rare and powerful.
Lots to be excited about here however i wish they would have given war cleric extra attack at level 6 instead and replaced their short rest dependent bonus action attack with something else. Why not? Certain warlocks, bards and the bladesinger all get extra attack.
Couldn't agree more. War domain has always been pretty far behind the others due to this oversight. They did increase the number of war priest charges by allowing them to be regained after a short rest, but the bonus action requirement hurts on a class that already has 1000 uses for its bonus action
@jdragoon099 that would be nice, but I can say the war cleric I played kept up with the fighter just fine with liberal use of spiritual weapon. Being able to heal and buff myself was icing on the cake.
As a Almost forever Cleric. I'm going to.lobe this nee way to play.
I love clerics but I still think it's kinda a shame that you don't get a themed subclass feature between levels 6 and 17. That's a lot of levels to not get any new abilities beyond core cleric abilities. And, like, I get it, the core cleric abilities are extremely powerful and cool, but it does mean those subclasses are a little flavourless for a bunch of levels
As a cleric enjoyer, I love all these buffs to an already more than solid class! But this also brings into stark contrast just how dirty you guys did the Paladin by making smite a bonus action spell.
As a paladin player, I'm excited to try out the new paladin. The 2014 version of smite is so overpowered that it's actually become a story point that one of the other PCs stopped getting kills once my character was added.
While I feel 1/turn would have been enough, I definitely agree that smite in the past was a crazy nova ability and it definitely made people forget some really amazing spells the paladin could also cast (like divine favor, crusaders mantle, and destructive wave). I just hope we can still cast sanctuary. I love fully hammering an opponent and then casting sanctuary when blocking a door or passageway
Never played a cleric. But have fellow players who absolutely love this class.
Hi Verny.. Priests have always been a staple in my many TSR submissions thru the years. But I'm feeling like WoTC is making the game more mechanical than role-playing.
I feel like cleric is one of the most rewarding classes to play because of the teamwork it brings out with the party.
Love the Cleric! Super diverse subclasses. Currently playing a Forge domain and loving it!
The one class I’ve wanted to know about for ages! My true fave class! Let’s go!
I'm loving all these changes, they make so much sense. especially origins, martials and wizard.
The only change I don't like is that all subclasses start at lvl3. I never understood why some got their subclass at lvl2.
But Sorcerer, Warlock, Cleric (and Paladin in 5e aswell) give me a weird feeling if they get their subclass at level 3. I know it's so you don't have to think about too much stuff on lvl 1 but I don't think anyone wants to decide what the source of their powers and foundation of their character is at level 3. My guess is that people will end up chosing at lvl 1 anyway. And at that point you can let them lock it in at level 1. I think this is also great for newbies since it gives them a specific tie to the world which can help cross that tough roleplaying hurdle.
thoughts?
Please someone come up with custom rules that let me lock these in at lvl 1 with featues so it doesn't jsut feel like pretend.
Constructs and undead being healable is kinda really lame. Like what’s even the point in them then? Are they just cosmetic?
they are only healable by Life clerics using preserve life Channel Divinity
Trickery domain is the new echo knight with spells. Being able to switch places with the dupe is amazing. Wonder if they altered the range?
Do we know for a fact whether or not Divine Intervention lets you bypass the normal casting time of a spell? You can cast Raise Dead without expending a slot or a material component, but can you cast it in 1 single action instead of an hour?
My first class! Looking forward to seeing how these holy rollers have changed in the new core rules 🙏
Rich get richer... Im happy for clerics but why are the bad classes still bad and the good classes better
This isn't true
The reason turn on dead never used the frightening condition is Because most undead were immune to the frightened condition.
In the next monster manual But until then, turn undead is probably going to be pretty weird.
I currently have a 7th Lvl Cleric Tempest, I see WOTC didn't make any alternatives for, I will gladly run the 5th Edition PHB Character...some items in this new PHC I like but as far as our group is concerned, it is just a guide
Does anyone know if they gave an additional use of Channel Divinity to the Cleric, as they did with the Paladin?
They took the weapon mastery from War Priest that was in the PDF. Cleric used it to good effect on the playtest.
For BG3: Invoke Duplicity has a mod on Nexus that uses the 2024 version.
Trickster Cleric + Rogue = the best ninja, either as a Gestalt or Multiclass PC.
My Fire Genasi feels blessed by the changes to the Light Domain. Thank you!
Reading all the comments complaining about Spiritual Weapon now being concentration is hilarious. Y’all just mad you can’t power game anymore and stack it with spirit guardians
spiritual weapon is not even that good, not worth casting half the time. The only reason people used it is because it didn't use concentration. It was hard to justify casting it in 5e, now it's just garbage
Not really. It was OK - the main benefit was it not requiring concentration. Now it's totally garbage, not worth preparing.
Only War Domain get any benefit of it now; for the rest of us, it will collect dust like the old True Strike cantrip and other worthless spells.
I like most of this, but Divine Intervention needs a hard nerf. I'd say limit it to spells that take an Action to cast. Raise Dead would have world shaping consequences if it could be cast every day without cost. Same for Hallow.
Light Domain Cleric is the best, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Flame Strike, all kinds of spells for the inner pyromaniac. Would like to see more ice and lightning spells to make an Aeromancer or Cryomancer wizard
I don't hate 11 eldritch knight/9 light cleric, tho I still want order back and they better not make it's best feature (Voice of Authority) worse!
They removed some of the fire stuff though to make it more focused on enlightenment and revealing what's hidden.
Jester would’ve really appreciated these changes to the Trickster Cleric
I mentioned a creature called the Aralez in the comments of the Warlock video, but I'm gonna bring up here too. Mainly because the Aralez in its source material, Armenian mythology, is described as a divine canine with resurrection abilities, which are specifically in their saliva. From a lore perspective, it could that the saliva of an Aralez is a very potent resurrection material but it has been found that diamonds are decently reliable substitute because of how rare it is to encounter an Aralez or even get a small vial of their saliva. Every monster can have a story, mission, or campaign built around it, but the Aralez in particular is uniquely suited all of that. So, I think it's a bit of missed opportunity they've never shown up in any official D&D materials, to my understanding and knowledge.
thats a pretty cool creature
@@thomasquesada7248 There are a lot of fun and cool creatures in mythology from cultures all over the world. And Armenian mythology doesn't get all that much attention globally.
D&D 2024: Everybody teleports.
My friends and I are so happy with this
wouldnt the antithesis of the life domain be death?
War Cleric didn’t get extra attack? No special interaction between Spiritual Weapon and the War Priest ability? Come on, man
Very cool and my favorite class. One day while I still draw breath, I would like to see the return of the evil cleric, but done as a subclass, and not just spell flips and alignment.
I just wish they would remove the limited uses on the War Priest ability. So unnecessary to restrict that.
Light domain cleric is my favorite class/subclass in the game. I’ve been waiting forever for this video. Let the flame burn 🔥
I think the war cleric should've been changed so that war priest allows you to extra attack once per turn by using it. This synergizes well with spiritual weapons, since it frees up you bonus action.
"You want to make damage or heal someone in every session, if you are not shopping". No. No you don't. You might play investigations or intrigues. I don't know how this is in US but in Europe this is rather usual in many groups.
It's the same here, although it depends on the group. But, most campaigns don't follow that formula, so the result is that if you're not shopping you want to be fighting or healing specifically because there is nothing to do in the module other than that.
Not being able to pick our circle until level 3 now feels like a huge kick in the balls even more so if you want to multi class. Keeping their core, what's more core than Devine domain?
Im looking forward to hearing about the new Bard! 😍
OH MY GOD FINALLY MY CLASS
0:29 OH MY?! HEALBOTTING IS GONNA BE MORE FUN?!?! AAAAHHHHH
2:47 I would’ve gone with Theurge since it’s the cleric using divine magic
9:32 one of the best things I noticed in Baldur’s Gate 3 was this change to Destroy Undead in that game, where it dealt damage instead of outright destroying, but, if the undead was weak enough to begin with or from taking damage in the fight you could still destroy it (if it got turned) With some regard to the dice gods as well
And Radiance of the Dawn was still more powerful since it didn’t require them to save against being Turned to take the damage
Heh, divine intervention is now Miracle and Minor Miracle. I love that.
@@captainrelyk If it can cast Wish, it's not limited to the Cleric spell list
@@constantine7862They literally said Greater Divine Intervention gives you Wish. Which means you can cast any spell from any list. everything the original commenter said is possible
@@pfan405 ...at level 20 which majority of campaigns will NEVER see
Can we have reasoning of why we have more spells as class/subclass features? Additional follow-up interviews, perhaps?
So the first level feature is effectively introducing 1/2 maratials? How do we have half casters?
The armor is big here. The weapons not as much. You still don’t get extra attack.
Glad there is a distinction between martial vs spell caster Clerics. If they’re giving Clerics some former none Cleric spells, I hope other spell casters can get Cleric spells. Giving Clerics access to Wish is really powerful.
Like the Smite for the Paladin can the clerics have a similar mechanic for the touch to hit spells like Inflict Wounds?
If the cleric hit he consume the spell slot, if he miss no spell slot is lost.
Is it a bad suggestion?
Divine intervention + glyph of warding for max chaos
Only class left is my favourite one, the Bard. Make my boys proud!
Steel Wind Strike should be on Hexblade now. No excuses.
I wish the subtitles were actually done by human - the AI messes a lot up and it can be confusing.
Me, waiting excitedly to see what my death domain cleric will play like when my campaign comes back off break.
"And the foil of the life domain cleric is of course..."
Aw yeah here we go!
"... the war domain."
0.0
The spiritual weapon nerf definitely hurts a bit for all clerics, but I get it. I wish they would have just given war domain multi attack instead of the war priest charges and the need for your bonus action, but hey...... I still think the war domain will continue to be the weakest cleric subclass.
i mean now that you can cast a spell AND attack as a bonus action it is much better than regular extra attack
@dreamseer_3 maybe I missed this.... I will listen again.
They said they want to preserve the identity of the classes while stripping Ranger of all of their flavor and identity.
So Clerics I have played a lot. like even more than wizards. From my Iconic "Im not a healer" light clerics, to my Ironborn nature cleric, to the more subtle greatsword wielding noble human Galin master of the magic (Trickery cleric magician god), to my first cleric a Hill Dwarf Helga tempest cleric.
My last cleric the one I'm going to compare here is the Goliath sailor Onyx war cleric serving the God "The Sailor".
The sailor is very much a sea God, his domain being war. There's a legal hiarchy and he doesn't so much care about good and evil just defeating the lawless pirates and of course his enemy is The Storm a female Goddess represented by a spider (Its Loth with the Tempest domain)
Onex has the Tavern brawler feat as well as the Athlete feat and uses a rapier and Shield.
Divine order- is good. Tharmathurge- much more of a knowledge Cleric.
Divine Spark- doing more harm helps my allies. Doing more healing not so much so.
Turn undead- not only do they stay put but they also cower?
sear undead- the undead nuke. nice
blessed stirkes- more damage ... baby do fear the rapier...
divine intervention- one extra spell... not what divine intervention was and its kinda a cheey downgrade
healing or harm with the healing spell has come back.
(don't mess with fireball)...
guided strike- +10 for all. you get a 10 you get a 10. Friend of the rogue now...
unarmed strike- kinda makes tavern brawler weak here but I love it.
War Domain- casting shield/weapon is now a divne spell
steel wind strike... nasty I love it.
Ruined the single most fun feature of cleric. Divine intervention made a cleric feel divine power. The dice roll represented the mysrerious will of the gods. Now you just get a free 5th level spell slot
Ok so I can be wearing heavy armor and casting buffed cantrips from the back now? sold!
I think that your level 1 choice is linked to your damage boost later on. Thaumaturge gets potent cantrips, guardian gets divine strikes. Could be wrong though.
As an update: the explanation on dndbeyond was more clear and it seems to be a separate choice for both features.
Can't wait to kill shadows with guaranteed damage by using healing word and as a bonus action too
So how does divine spark compare to light and life domain abilities
Did i hear correctly that thamaturge adds 2 ability modifiers to 3 different skills at level 1?
At that stage, the quantity and potency of the cleric's skill buff is greater than even the rogues.
Thaumaturge gives an extra cantrip and you can add your Proficiency bonus to Arcana and Religion a second time (expertise). But you can't get heavy armor or martial weapons without a feat then.
The trickster duplicate buff would’ve made Shadowheart so much better in BG3 because, no joke, in my 100 hour playthrough I used it once and never again because I did not know Withers can also ReSpec the other characters 😂
I want to be able to use divine intervention to smite on a crit with my mace, I would allow it in my game as a dm
Im just mixed fealing on the new cleric. It sounds good, but with so many fantasy gods in dnd, 4 sub classes cant be represented. Even good to evil and chaos to law and the nutral aspects... it may work mecanically to wizard of coast, but they are killing the fantasy
You can still use all the 5e sub-classes that didn't move over. Expect tons of homebrew updating the other sub-classes to this new 6e.
@steveaustin2686 oh I know, I was just stating that wizards cut their nose off to spite their face. I tend to play forgotten realms world and there is no way the goddess of magic fits in any of these four. The wizards just wants every class to have a one box fits all with this new book. I'm just saying wizard's have 8 schools of magic and clerics needed all their domain's to account for all the beliefs.
@@MatthewHug-n6p More upgraded subclasses are coming in future books per comments by Crawford. If they updated every sub-class, the book would likely be twice the size. The old subclasses still work and homebrewing those classes will happen.
This isn't an entire new edition but just an update to the old one. If something isn't mentioned in the book, you can assume that's because they just didn't change it, unless otherwise stated by the developers.
@@catpoke9557 Meh, they did change enough that the 2024 rules are a 6th edition really. But the 2014 subclasses can still be used, along with the backgrounds and races. There just are some changes to be made to make them work with the 2024 rules.
one thing I miss is the disrupt undead cantrip... to bad that's gone by the wayside
I’m sorry, but isn’t the new Divine Intervention way to strong? Prayer of healing now provides a short rest when cast, and under the new DI description would be eligible, just like Hallow and Raise Dead.
But… doesn’t getting a short rest in the middle of combat feel… strong? Rolling hit dice? Warlock slots? Focus points? Action surge/second wind? Hell, wizard could even swap a prepared spell knowledge! Am I crazy? Doesn’t that feel obscenely good? And you can just do it once every day?
My Goblin War Domain Cleric is going to have so much fun. Hehe!
the clutch revivify divine intervention is gunna go hard
As happy as I am about the buffs to Life Domain Cleric as someone who genuinely enjoys being the 'party healer support' role, the talk about War Domain reminded me about what still feels like the worst change in all of One D&D, and one they kept in despite the *tons* of negative backlash it got in testing: Spiritual Weapon requiring concentration.
As a Cleric in general but especially as a support build type, I'm gonna be concentrating on Bless 100% of the time. Maybe sometimes Aura of Vitality, Beacon of Hope, or Banishment in specific situations as well, meaning that with the new version, I'd never get to use Spiritual Weapon anymore because Bless is just too good to give up, and unless I need Healing Word for something, my Bonus Action would pretty much be doing nothing at that point without SW to attack. I pretty much lose the ability to contribute to the fight directly and heal at the same time, or if not needed, double down with an SW attack and a Sacred Flame or rare melee attack. Just really feels bad to lose that extra bit of damage and action economy.
I mean, sorcerers and wizards rarely have anything to do with their bonus action. And when you choose to play your character primarily as a support character, supporting your other party members is unsurprisingly going to be how you contribute to a fight. You can still cast cantrips with your action if you want to do a bit of damage. A sorcerer or wizard who wants to play more of a support mage role will also be concentrating on something like haste, fly, or polymorph on a party member (or banishment, slow etc to debuff an enemy) and most of the time, they will end up casting a cantrip with their main action if they want to try to do a bit of damage and will have nothing to do with their bonus action. A life cleric always has the option to cast something like spirit guardians or one of the summoning spells if they want to do ongoing damage (just like a sorcerer or wizard could choose to use their concentration to try to damage enemies instead of supporting their party members). I get that it doesn’t feel great because it was something you could do in the past but it’s kind of the trade off for all support characters (your main contribution is support rather than direct damage of the enemy and that’s still super valuable).
Twilight domain still remains busted!!! Woooo!!!
I love that armor proficiency moved away from sub class but like... My choices are Heavy Armor+ Martials... or a Cantrip and minor skill bump?
TF? 😅
Very surprising that there are only 4 domains. I was expecting them to say part 2 would be coming soon at the end.
They are going with 4 subclasses for every class in the game. Some good subclasses were left on the cutting room floor, and it’s really reduced options for clerics and wizards. While the system is somewhat backwards compatible with the older books, I expect we will see some of the favorites brought back in future books.
I know divine intervention sometimes never succeeds in a campaign... But that slim chance makes those successes so memorable. I'm sad to see that changed
Trying to explain a rule without explaining the rule. That sums up this series.
So how is this all gonna fit if I choose a subclass that isn't covered in 5.5e? What about dndbeyond? Will we be forced for the new system or can we still use 5e in the app?
For old subclasses: lvl 1 features move to level 3 and you don't get their divine strike option because you already got it from the base class.
For dndbeyond, they haven't mentioned that we are losing access to older content so right now I would guess that you can just choose not to run it as 2024.
It’ll probably be the same as all the rest of the Legacy content
It's obvious, you will be forced to use new ed, and dnd beyond is a main instrument for this.
Looking to protect yourself/someone or deal some/all damage?
i dont know about the divine intervention i mean like, it was soo much more roleplay in the older version and now only Cleric Spells and he says it is made for the raise dead spell so i dont know it isnt that cool to be honest, because like when my cleric says something thst i think is worth it you just get it without the roll