We need more content like this! Seriously evaluating small capacity bikes that most people can afford , these days is getting harder to justify big, heavy and expensive bikes. Congrats to MCN for doing it, more should follow.
I own a KTM 390A... and a BMW 310gs. KTM is a 390 Duke with a longer forks, bit bigger wheels, bigger seat etc. Frame and engine are the same between the two bikes. Exhaust is below frame which results in very poor ground clearance, (including a cheap skid plate). Forks are ok... but have limited travel, which you can't fix. Steering is pretty quick, lots of users are adding steering yoke dampening. The bike is very happy carving corners on twisty roads, and the engine has enough whoopie to go on major highways. (In the USA.) In the end, that bike is a re-worked Duke. It can work 'off road'... but it really isn't happy. BMW 310gs is basically a 'mimic' of a bigger BMW (including some of the nuisance stuff). If you had another adventure BMW... if you sit on the 310gs, everything is familiar. Bars are right position, seat right, pegs right etc etc. Big thing on the BMW is re-working the suspension... then it goes pretty good off road. Ground clearance on the BMW is pretty good. Engine is pretty good... but it could have used another 50cc's. Dropping a tooth on the countershaft works wonders. Bottom line... everything feels good on the bike. Too bad they didn't make the engine 350 cc's to 450 cc's. BMW missed having a 'dominant' mid-range bike. Rest of the bike was engineered heavy enough and would have handled a bigger engine just fine. There is also 'quality control'. (Been through both bikes in detail). KTM has cheap fasteners, poorly tapped screw holes, light axles and bearings, cheap chain, etc etc. On the other hand, the BMW has high quality fasteners, big axles, better bearings, good chain, and the fit and finish are better. At any rate... lots of the people are still waiting for the 'imaginary' WR250R with a 350 cc engine.
I have always ridden small dual sport thumpers. I never wanted a big heavy bike, on road or off road. Now that I'm in my 60's, that's no longer just a preference. It's now a necessity. I bought a 2019 G310GS for my 60th birthday. It's great for me because I don't ride hard on road or off road, and it'll do both to my heart's content. For the last three years, it's been 100% reliable. I've done all of the scheduled maintenance and it's been inexpensive to maintain. I wish BMW offered a G310GS Adventure version with a 5 gallon fuel tank, tubeless spoke wheels, an aluminum bash plate, engine protection bars, larger and more aggressive pegs, and fully adjustable suspension front and rear. Those upgrades would cost BMW less than $400 and I'd pay $2000 more for that bike, even though I don't need those improvements. I added most as after market upgrades. I didn't bother upgrading the wheels or suspension because those are expensive and I wouldn't benefit enough to justify the cost. KTM swapping tubeless alloy wheels for tube spoked wheels was a step in the wrong direction their 490 Adventure, in my opinion. I wish there was a good after market 5 gallon fuel tank for the G310GS because no ADV bike should have a 2.9 gallon fuel capacity. Bike manufacturers, not just BMW, look at their small ADV bikes as beginner bikes. They use them to get new customers on the upgrade path to their mid size and full size ADV bikes. Older riders typically have more discretionary income and are buying smaller bikes because they have trouble handling and lifting larger bikes, but I'd argue that a small ADV bike like the G310GS is better off road for all riders. Unfortunately, the marketing department doesn't want to admit this, so they won't sell full featured lightweight ADV bikes because if they did, most people wouldn't buy their more expensive larger bikes. That's why smaller ADV bikes are built to a budget and are stripped of premium features. The companies would rather sell someone their first bike, that leads to their second and third. They aren't interested in selling old riders their last bike, so they miss the opportunity to make an R1300GS Adventure profit margin on a G310GS Adventure.
I agree-I’m new to the scene but when I saw the larger bikes my first thought was, why. Smaller, more nimble makes more sense to me for numerous reasons.
Good honest real world review . Enjoyed it and I have to say the Himalayan gets my vote! Cheers to Nathan whose enormous experience in riding these bikes gives this review so much credibility.
Agree with your comments on the Himalayan - 80-90kph touring on back roads is very “comfortable” , corners like its on rails and its very “gravel” / dirt road capable. I found that this was the best “all-rounder” of all the bikes I tested (including these 4) so I bought one to keep my Ducati company and haven’t looked back.
The Himalayan would be my ideal bike. Cheap in price, economical to maintain, simple mechanics, if you drop it it doesn't hurt. Quiet on the highway, and more than capable on dirt tracks. Little depreciation compared to more expensive motorcycles. Think about it, a 10k motorcycle loses almost half of what the himayan costs when its warranty expires. And also the Royal is a good motorcycle for day to day. Cons? worse weight / power ratio, but assuming that it is not the philosophy of the motorcycle it will be a missile, I would not say that it is a cons. For me, I also like to drive a motorcycle that is not very powerful, it is more fun to ride a motorcycle and always look for the perfect regime to squeeze it to the fullest without surprises or big booms. I almost forgot, everyone says that the front brake is bad. Ps: If the new 450 follows the same philosophy, it may be my new bike.
I want the 450 and apparently 6600 brand new for the top spec is a really great price. And for the front brake issues I would probably look into an upgraded braking system. But if I get one of these I do t think I’d ever sell it.
I like my 2021 Himmy. Light enough to throw in the back of my pickup truck and get it to the starting point of a BDR. Cheap enough that if it get dropped I just don't care. NO fing computer ride modes. Just ride a real motorcycle! God bless from grey skied N.E. Ohio
PS Good to see Our friend Nathan included for experienced sensible input. He knows the pluses and minuses of the sub 500cc class travel / trail / adventure bikes.
On the 390 it is the side stand that can make it cut out. Only happens if you drop your heals standing up and your going at it. I found just keeping the stand clean and lubed solved it. Long life grease or copper grease worked best. If you still have trouble then cut or bend the foot bar on the stand out the way. Cheers Paul
Racked my brain trying to choose between all these bikes. In the end, I spent my money on a new DR650. Cheaper to buy, more capable at everything, only a little heavier, noticeably more powerful, no electronic to faff with/fail.
Excellent choice and the same place I ended up after trying out one of the 250cc class dual sports. They just don’t have enough grunt for highway travel with luggage on an incline or headwind.
Off all the similar bike reviews I've seen, this one is the absolute best. They focus on the information and opinion we need, no the specs we can see online. Well done. Keep content like this coming please.
I have a 310gs which has had all of the Rally Raid parts added(suspension, wheels bars and exhaust) it is now super capable on and off road and is probable the bike that should have been produced from the factory. Super enjoyable to ride and will go anywhere.
Interesting, but sounds like this was made last summer of 22. The New Voge 300 the cheap Chinese Rallye 300 clone is about to drop and the new 400 cc Triumph is coming soon as is the 450 water cooled RE. Things will look different by the end of 23. Happy Safe Riding !!
Great video! And Nathan was spot on. I own a CRF Rally, but had a go on the BMW, and hired a Hymalyan in Morocco last year. The Hymalsyan was great to travel on, I found the Beemer good for commuting. The Rally, I rode it a full year before throwing in a Rally raid suspension kit. It pulls better now that the engine doesn't have to fight the soft suspension. With the kit, it much more planted on and off the road. Ride safe.
Great video. I appreciated the insight on how the bikes do against the "conditions" rather than against each other. I think for someone unfamiliar that is more important. 👍
another KTM 390 owner here and absolutely agree with comments. It's a great road bike and when you wring its neck a bit you can pretty much keep up with mid sized ADV bikes just fine (on tarmac). But it's seriously compromised off road. Lifting the handlebars with spacers helps a bit, pivot pegs help a lot and swapping tyres out for something more aggressive makes a huge difference off road. Letting the engine breathe with a more open flow exhaust has also helped make it sound a LOT better and provide a tad more torque ( perhaps 5%? ) It can't go where a 690 / 890 can go but for half the price isn't bad at all. Ive had zero reliability issues but try to keep its switchgear dry as they are susceptible to rain getting into the the electrics. Front suspension is too soft for anyone over 70kg. It's unpleasant on highways with a lot of vibration so mostly good for a few hrs blasting around local tarmac corners and dirt roads.
I have one... would i buy it again. For the money brand new, nothing is close to the performance and handling. A few mods and its even better, like a different end can, raising the bars and turning them forward a bit, getting some decent handguards and playing around with a hacksaw, ally plate and bingo, high level enduro mudguard which suits the look better. The only thing I despise abou the bike is the OEM end can. That and the other box next to the rear shock are just about the nastiest ugliest cheap poorly made and badly finished pieces of crap ever attached to a motorcycle.
Great review Michael and team!!! Dealing with the constant niggles and issues with the RE made me look at the KTM. Just upgraded to the 390ADV last month and ive never been so thrilled. The electronics package is great, the adjustable suspension is comfortable and the engine is just the icing on the cake. Its so much fun on and off the road. I'm still in the process of unlearning himalayan. The KTM has brought back that zing in my ride which was missing dearly. I can now comfortably keep up with all my fellow riders who have bigger bikes like 1250GS and Tiger. Best decision so far🤘
@@MrThejunkman Honestly, I'm done with RE. You would know the pain of owning an RE these days. I still have the interceptor in my garage, but she's a "tarmac queen". Trust me when I say this, RE is not the same anymore, there are heaps of quality issues and the fixes if added over time, ain't cheap.
Great content, the 'this might work for you if....' approach is spot on. Please can you do a 'Scrambler that can scramble' equivalent using the same locations? There's now: RE Scram411, Fantic Cabellero 500 Rally, '23 Mash X trail 650cc and Triumph 900 scrambler.... that ought to be a giggle 😉
I’m a Honda owner, very pleased with it and it’s true that it could be produced with a better package. If sales volume speak volumes the Honda is streets ahead of the others. The question really is, why don’t other manufacturers produce a better version of the CRF?
You can't go long miles with it's narrow and sloping seat. It's for trail riders. It makes power at high rpm that is annoying to wring throttle with extra effort everytime to accelerate. It's barely an adventure bike.
Kawasaki make the klx250, Yamaha made the WR250R which was (and still is) leagues better than the crf250 and 300 out the box. Emissions killed them both off. The only reason honda was able to make the crf is because the had a cheap, efficient engine from the CB/ CBR 250/300 range to shoehorn in. It's unfortunate that other manufacturers are no longer producing 250 trail bikes, so your choice of new bikes effectively consists of a woefully undersuspended CRF, or 10 grand, highly strung EXC or similar. If the Chinese bikes from the likes of Kove gain traction maybe they'll push the development of the market?
@@rodrozil6544 The Rally is only a decent suspension upgrade and seat away from being a really good bike. I think you do it and the amount of people it is hauling around the world, as we type, a disservice
@@rodrozil6544 I have to disagree with you. I have a 250l rally with a stock seat and a $30 coleman atv seat cover. I do 7-8 hour rides with bigger ADV bikes and I'm just fine. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
I've had my KTM 390ADV for nearly 3 years now. I originally bought it for 20-30 mile road runs to do some Green Lanes, plus some fun on local back roads. It generally does it well. I never quite got the problem with the foot pegs, I have since fitted the SW Motec pegs and I still can't notice the difference! That is probably me. For me it definitely benefited from 20mm bar risers, and tilting the bars forward (and lower the clutch handle down)... I always felt that I was going to disappear over the handlebars. I hardened up the pre load front and rear by 2 clicks as I found it too bouncy, esp under braking (I weigh ~82kg for reference). The tyres (TKC70s) are 'difficult' In any kind of mud, especially Essex clay... Much happier with the TKC80s, I have also found they are equally capable on the road as the 70s (I didn't trust them at first)... They do make the steering a bit more 'twitchy' / sensitive when traveling at 60mph plus on the A14/A12 for example! The TC used to annoy me but now , with more experience, I've got the hang of feathering the clutch so I don't stall the bike and leave the TC on... I never used to see the TC light come on unless I was in deep mud or water, so it is kinda pointless on this size of bike. I've never really heard about the 'cutting out' problem before... I thought it was me! I've had it a few times, never off road as far as I can remember... I shall think about this... I am sure it is something to do with turning left though! Anyway, over all, after three years I still love my 390 ADV. I recently did three days of backroads and byways from South Essex to North Norfolk, followed by a three hour 'A Road' ride back home to South Essex... The bike performed beautifully and I loved the adventure. I have never tried the other bikes so I can't comment, other than they would probably have been fine doing the trip too.
I really enjoyed the review. I would love to see how the new HIMALAYAN 450 would fit into your earlier commentary. I am looking at my first Adventure bike. Thanks for your feedback.
The crime is that all the big motorcycle manufacturers reluctantly and belatedly provided a small ADV bike but they were all very careful to design and market them as budget or beginner bikes. Their goal was to produce a bike that would attract new customers and get them upgrading as soon as possible to their bigger, heavier and much more expensive mid or full size ADV bikes. That was at odds with what we wanted - a lightweight ADV bike that was off road oriented in a way that a heavier bike could never be, but with enough power to cruise on the highway when needed. The Chinese aren't part of the big moto cartel, so they aren't playing that game. We're seeing bikes like the CF Moto 450 Ibex. It's still a bit heavier than it could be and should be, but it's off road oriented and has a large 17 liter (4.6 gallon) fuel capacity. Replace some steel with aluminum and a few other weight savings tricks and it could be the unicorn bike we wanted for decades. Kove should make an ADV version of their 450 Dakar bike.
Always great to see lightweight ADV getting some love... have ridden mine 20,000miles in the last 2 seasons (primarily on dirt) and loved every minute of it. One thing I think would be great for this sort of a compare - yes let us know how they do stock but ALSO let us know how they do with "typical" ADV customizations, like proper spring/valve swap and sag setup (for adv use, which in my experience means stiffer everything) and knobby tires fit for purpose (something like tkc80's for light offroad ADV/ MT21's or similar for moderate offroad ADV)... along with any other things needed (like luggage if it's not included) and how much it costs to get the bike properly set up for an ADV tour. Quibbles - The Himilayan is almost 450lbs... IMO not a lightweight ADV... middleweight (unless this compare is really "low power ADV" or "low cost ADV"). Looks like it weighs about the same as the KTM 890 so I'd compare it to the other middleweight class options. The other three are in the "lightweight ADV" weight class (300-400lbs IMO) so I'd compare them to the king of the lightweight adv class... a properly set up 690 ADV R (and others in that class like that very cool new Chinese ADV bike and AJP PR7).
Can't argue with that mate. I don't think I've ever left a single bike I've owned stock. Obviously nice to know what comes out the box is nearest what we're looking for but from my experience we all generally get roughly the same sort of mods done. Having said that I doubt it's in their budget to start chucking bits on them to let us know what their like 😅
The Versys 300 is often overlooked in this category. A sensational-it-all bike for the money. 2 cylinders make life easier on the freeway and not a great deal of trade off for in the slower stuff. Find a sprocket that suits the riding type.
I agree with you. I've seen several bike tests and reviews of small capacity bikes, and all the journalists seem to forget about the Versys-x 300. I have had one for 4 years and still love its versatility. I've done long km trips, fast paced rides on twisties, gravel roads and even 4x4 tracks. The limit has been the pilot, not the bike.
Rode the GS the other day and was impressed. Brakes were good, the engine is designed to have peak power at 9500 rpm and peak torque @7000 rpm thats why it needs to be revved !! Its designed to do it - Trust me it was pulling 80 uphill and 90mph on the straight, ktm slightly faster but not much in it real world. GS more comfortable and better warranty than the KTM which has a hard seat ( bmw 3 years and 3 years roadside assistance) and recently on offer for £5500 with 0% finance (only one of these with 0%) compared to the spoked ktm (£6700) (2 year warranty and stalling issues at speed not good but a decent bike..... however GS Still a good bike for the money! dont be put off . Himalayan 5 seconds slower 0 to 60 mph than GS and brakes do mot inspire confidence on the road. Honda great bike off road but soft suspension and not as good road bike as the GS. Stainless steel braided brake lines and stainless exhaust on the BMW too....Decent dash if more basic than the ktm still has everything. Dont be put off the BMW its good value.....other than these the new Honda 500x with the showa suspension is your best bet at £6695 . Riding since 1998 so thats my fairly experienced 10 pence worth and lets face it, if you were seriously off roading you would upgrade the tires etc anyway from the standard rubber 👍🏼
I am not sure if many adventure bike spends much time off-road, so road orientation is the way to go for a volume manufacturer. The Himalayan is designed from the outset to be a compromise and a jack of all trades isn’t going to be perfect in any. I think that when I pass my test and loose the Varadero 125 (which I do like) I will probably get a Himalayan because its classless and not a cliche and I am an old git who thinks n‘owt is any good nowadays 😂
Great review thanks. There is the KTM390ADV X version stripped of all electronics to consider for less negative remarks, and also the new off-road version which is being planned to be released in 2025. Something like an "R" version. Then I'm sure it will eliminate even it's closest competitors unless it's rivals do something similar. After my T7, I ordered the 390ADV SW version since I'll be doing no more than 5% light offroads when I started searching for a lightweight enduro/adventure/travel bike. Just not off the beaten path.
Within the last 5 years I first got the BMW, found it great at first, but the engine was too buzzy for me at high speeds after one or two weeks. Then I got the KTM and it was kinda the same it only took me longer to feel its buzzyness. Also the ground clearance was very bad and that flimsy plastic factory bash plate broke from hitting a small stick already. Then inbetween I got a Suzuki SV650 and it was the best road bike I ever had. So much fun on the road! For all my almost 20 year riding I never got more than one cylinder and never got a naked bike. And I got hooked immediately. So much so that I was planning to get a Triumph Street Triple 765 or an Aprilia RS660 next. But what I was really missing with the Suzuki was the off road and the versatility in city commuting. You couldnt take the same shortcuts with it, that I was used to on my other bikes. Like going over kerbsides or some stairways. And I was going green lanes on the SV also, but had to go so slow. So now I got the CRF 300 l (not the Rally) and it is such a huge step above both the G310 and 390 ADV, when it comes to off road riding! And the engine is better than I thought. And its also the best city bike I ever owned. My plan is to save up to a Street bike, so I have the CRF for everyday use and a naked or sportsbike for when I need the speed or have to get somewhere fast. I was always hesitant to get two bikes. But now I see its the only way for me that makes sense.
Bought the KTM last week. If you want to ride 100 miles on high speed roads to get to your dirt riding, it’s the one for me. The street legal trail bikes mostly are terrible on the road and most of us spend more time on the road. Probably the RE would suffice too for this kind of riding but wringing its neck just to keep up with traffic with nothing left for overtaking doesn’t sound fun. As a backroad/no road travel tool, I bet it’s brilliant. Honestly, I didn’t buy the KTM for off road riding. It’s for any road riding, from unpaved dirt roads in the forest to 70mph motorways. For that, it’s a blast. If I want to travel 2000 miles, I’ll take my V-Strom 650.
Honda would be the way to go if you are looking for the winner. This is only bike that can not only do local adventure, but cross continent trip with it.
@@davidmatthews3093 Rode a group with RE Himalaya in my trip in Indonesia to Singapore trip...my advice is do not depend on it - it is not only unreliable but also fragile. We had the clutch cable snapping, and host of other issues during the trip.
The more I ride my Himalayan 411 the more I fall in love with it. I’d choose it over any other bike less than $8000. Upgrading the cam and getting a fuel map and some free flow exhaust make the bike into a solid riding experience that you cannot get for anywhere near the price. The look too, it’s the only one that has that old school look that I can ride anywhere on.
I've got a brand new rally, it's my 1st bike at 58 and yes on corrugations it feels like the back tyre is flat. If I keep it long term ill upgrade the suspension. Great video.
costs £20 for bar risers and as you guys said, rotate the bars forward and the KTM bars are about 2" higher, and therefore isnt bad. Also the 2023 electronics keep the traction control and ABS off once swiched off, even when you stall - which is a dealer upgrade thats free when you get it serviced. And yes I've got one 🙂
Excellent video fellas, good honest review. I'd almost stopped watching MCN bike reviews as they seemed biased towards certain makes. Not this review though - well done! I wonder how my Classic 350 would do on those trails ;-)
In india we get the Adventure 390 X which does not have any of the elctronics intrusion as you said at 14:17 and its even cheaper than what you have got in the video. the only downside to that version is, it does not have spoked wheels or adjustable suspension.
I have a 2021 Himalayan. I have done some long trips on this bike and ridden it on some knurly roads. It's not perfect but it is a lot easier to ride off road than the Africa Twin I owned earlier. I am 68 years old and I'm 5'4" so the Himalayan suits me. It's gravel road performance is quite good. The gas mileage and range is also good. It is very well suited to packing a lot of stuff on it. It is a little lame on the highway but I can live with it. Off road, I find it a little disappointing. It is heavy and the suspension is not great. In Canada we have a lot of logging roads. These are much worse than gravel roads, they are often steep and if they are old, the erosion can make them very difficult. Last year I fell on one of these and even though I had an armoured jacket, when I landed on a rock, I broke two ribs. Recently while searching for a ghost town, I abandon my search because of the quality of the roads.
I'm sure with a little tweaking, the Svartpilen 401 could compete with these. They are currently cheaper than the RE Himalayan where I'm from, with almost twice the hp and much lighter.
I tested the ktm for the time ever today and coming from big adv bikes I felt this little adv bike is an absolute beauty. I spend all my time on the road at it suits me at my age 67 because it’s so manageable. Regards John
I'm glad I can still buy the bike I have in Canada. It is simpler to maintain and a better bike off road than all of these and it weighs less than all of these other than the crf which weighs 95% as much as my DR6650. Go ahead tell me it's not an adventure bike because it doesn't have a piece of plexiglass. I rode it 10,000km across Canada and then turned around and went back home.
The BMW is a great little bike, can't understand why you're so critical. It will do gentle off road, no problem. It will cruise at 60-70mph all day (top speed 88mph). I get 81 mpg and it LOVES being revved.
God...that was one smart, searching, review. The thing that is so often missing in reviews is exploring the implications of different rider needs & preferences, and also skill levels. This review confirms my preference for a Himalayan (this 411, or, the upcoming 450?) because it's solid explorer bike that carries the gear, tractors over the terrain, and doesn't require razor sharp off-road skills.
Second time I've watched this review.... initially when I got interested in lightweight adventure bikes.... and now when I got to the decision of which one I'm going to buy which happens to be in the list of your reviews..... I remember all the trials 60s and 70s were all thumping single cylinders and they got them up those Hills.... I think it's definitely the Himalayan for me.... I've done all the projectile rides I just want a lazy plod
I wanted something different from the superbikes I own and these were my choices 2 years ago, before I brought one (including the Benelli TRK502X & CB500X). All I can say is I test rode all of them and out of these 4 there is only 2 choices from my experience the KTM or CRF. The HONDA is just too under power for everyday life and for me the clear winner here is the KTM. I have owed one now for over 2 years and it is my go to over anything else. Fun on the road, fine on light Green trails and far more powerful than any of the other 3 by miles!. I even use it now to go long distances with bikes of much higher CC and I have never felt like I am missing out. The ENFIELD is dated in everyway and never fun at road riding, the BMW is too over priced in everyway from a road and trial point of view. The test here should have been the KTM, CRF, Benelli 502X, the new VOGE525DSX and not forgetting the CB500X. All much better than the bikes on test here for all round fun. The truth is as figures show 9 out 10 people who buy these bikes will not be riding over the Sahara desert on them or even taking them to the local MX track (including GS owners). It is also worth mentioning this was an unfair test, the KTM selected was the more expensive 390 Adventure SW, but does also come much cheaper with cast wheels. I have tested all of the above and therefore feel this is a fair view, however this is only my view.
Thank you for this very complete and clear review 👍 I’ve just tried both the KTM and the BMW, for me the BMW works better... more confort and more relax ride. If I’m looking to road performances I would anyway go for way more HP than the 390 😉
For the 390, I don't think the spoked wheels are an exercise in aesthetics. I dented the front wheel of mine enough to break the bead so I had to put a tube in. I have a feeling a stronger spoked wheel would have easily survived. Other than that, the only one I've ridden long term is my 390. While I have upgraded to an 890R, I will miss the 390. I never felt that I outgrew it or wanted more, I just got a screamer of a deal on a new bike and can't justify 5 bikes. I mean I could, but my wallet can't.
Thanks, great vid! I'm currently looking at 3 bikes and you've shown 2 of them. KTM 390 love the tech pack but hate the stance of the bike,300 rally because at the cost of KTM with the extra mods, I can get ECU, bigger airflow, an exhaust system, and a new suspension f&r and a 40+hp bike that is amazing offroad on and on-road but doesn't have the lean traction and other tech that KTM has. Then the bike I feel should have been included is the Kawaski Vrsy 300 is so comfy like the Royal Enfield Great input on expectations thanks!!!
I own both the KTM390 Adventure and a Honda crf300l and would agree with your review of both bikes. I love both bikes but wouldn't want either as my only bike. Regarding the suspension on the Honda, I plan on upgrading it this winter. It's really my only gripe with the bike. I'm very intrigued with the new 2024 Himalayan but I'm a bit disappointed with the weight compared to the KTM 390. You also get a lot of bang for the buck with the 390.
I'm torn between the 390 adv and the cfr300ls (I'm short so I'd go with the low seat edition). I live in Texas so any trail riding is going to require more to drive at least an hour or two away. Because of this, I'm leaning towards the 390. But i don't want to get it and regret it the second I hit the trails since the cfr is much more capable off road.
I'm right there with you. Currently on a Ninja 650 and trying to change to something with a little more off road capability. My take is: if you've ridden dirt bikes and are used to how an Enduro/Dual Sport feels in handling and on the road... the CRF300L should be fine. It sacrifices on the road riding, but can handle most off road since it's effectively a street legal dirt bike with a big tank. However, if you're coming from a street bike, especially one with forward handlebars, the 390 Adv will suit you better. You also can ask yourself how much offroad do you want to do. A lot, especially difficult stuff? Go CRF300L Rally. Only some, and very occasionally something a little more challenging, 390 Adv. There are videos of guys doing some pretty serious trails with the 390.
Sadly discontinued a few years ago. Having ridden one of would almost have matched the KTM for on road performance and been a little better off road than it. The seat on the Kawasaki was terrible but it loved to rev. Fun bike to ride. And reliable.
I looked at all of these except the RE. I bought the Honda and it satisfies. It seems a better bike for “adventure” unless freeway travel at more than 55 mph is any part of the adventure, or when adventure means more than 50 mile events at which point your butt will be very sore.
why is the mic quality so bad? maybe its because they are talking so loud. i have the volume the lowest it can go and they still sound way louder than even the driving scenes
What I'm really curious about now is how the bikes do with those improvements you talked about some of them needing. How do they stack up when the KTM has those upright footpegs, and the BMW and Honda have better suspension?
That's a question I would love to see answered. It would be great if we had those sorts of reviews, from owners. Once the bike has been upgraded to the basics that everyone does, let's come back for review.
For me as a traveler, the best is the Honda CRF because is the lightest and the most off road capable you can lift up easily !! you can put crash bars, luggage etc. and travel and enjoy the landscapes, etc.
Great video, but the sound was terrible. Please get some decent close hand-held mics for the feedback sections! Not a good idea to just wing it with clip mics. Your videographer and editor know this is true. Other than that, learned a lot about these bikes. Appreciated. Thank you :)
I think you need to include the new 450 Himalayan which is a brand-new design by RE. I love my KTM 390 ADV after coming off a 1700 V-Twin. The looks, the electronics, the suspension all tick boxes for me and that's why I bought it.
Standing's an issue for me on the G310GS, especially trying to get the rear brake. So I'm seriously considering getting a Voge. Test riding one at CMS on Saturday hopefully!
Interesting test of some great real everyday machines. I've not ridden any of these but could be in the market for something like this that handles rough roads with (maybe) the odd tarmacked trail. The forthcoming Himalayan 450 looks very interesting as does the Triumph Scrambler 400. It would be great if there were more such machines..40 years ago there were decent 400cc or thereabouts options from all the major Japanese manufacturers.
And all I really want is a CRF500 Rally at around 150kg. H 701 LR little bit too heavy, ktm 500 exc-f bad service intervals as it is not a dualsport. ktm 450 rally replica perfect, but with 36.000 EUR ... well, yeah.
I have a himalayan and an africa twin adventure sports dct. Himalayan every time for green laning . It's unbelievably tough . Africa twin mostly tarmac stuff as I really don't want to break it off road.
I started riding 50cc, Then I got to 125cc, Then to 600cc (ending on R6 super-sport). Now I'm riding a 1000cc with more power I ever needed. And I'm thinking to switching to one of these small bikes. I think I got out of the-more-cc-the-better-rat-race. The time has come!
We need more content like this! Seriously evaluating small capacity bikes that most people can afford , these days is getting harder to justify big, heavy and expensive bikes. Congrats to MCN for doing it, more should follow.
Brilliant comment 👍
I fully agree with tuicks11's comment here.
@@iangriffiths9930brilliant reply!
Absolutely right...
I think I'm going to end up getting the Triumph Scrambler 400x in January
I own a KTM 390A... and a BMW 310gs. KTM is a 390 Duke with a longer forks, bit bigger wheels, bigger seat etc. Frame and engine are the same between the two bikes. Exhaust is below frame which results in very poor ground clearance, (including a cheap skid plate). Forks are ok... but have limited travel, which you can't fix. Steering is pretty quick, lots of users are adding steering yoke dampening. The bike is very happy carving corners on twisty roads, and the engine has enough whoopie to go on major highways. (In the USA.)
In the end, that bike is a re-worked Duke. It can work 'off road'... but it really isn't happy.
BMW 310gs is basically a 'mimic' of a bigger BMW (including some of the nuisance stuff). If you had another adventure BMW... if you sit on the 310gs, everything is familiar.
Bars are right position, seat right, pegs right etc etc. Big thing on the BMW is re-working the suspension... then it goes pretty good off road. Ground clearance on the BMW is pretty good. Engine is pretty good... but it could have used another 50cc's. Dropping a tooth on the countershaft works wonders.
Bottom line... everything feels good on the bike. Too bad they didn't make the engine 350 cc's to 450 cc's. BMW missed having a 'dominant' mid-range bike. Rest of the bike was engineered heavy enough and would have handled a bigger engine just fine.
There is also 'quality control'. (Been through both bikes in detail). KTM has cheap fasteners, poorly tapped screw holes, light axles and bearings, cheap chain, etc etc. On the other hand, the BMW has high quality fasteners, big axles, better bearings, good chain, and the fit and finish are better.
At any rate... lots of the people are still waiting for the 'imaginary' WR250R with a 350 cc engine.
I have always ridden small dual sport thumpers. I never wanted a big heavy bike, on road or off road. Now that I'm in my 60's, that's no longer just a preference. It's now a necessity.
I bought a 2019 G310GS for my 60th birthday. It's great for me because I don't ride hard on road or off road, and it'll do both to my heart's content. For the last three years, it's been 100% reliable. I've done all of the scheduled maintenance and it's been inexpensive to maintain.
I wish BMW offered a G310GS Adventure version with a 5 gallon fuel tank, tubeless spoke wheels, an aluminum bash plate, engine protection bars, larger and more aggressive pegs, and fully adjustable suspension front and rear. Those upgrades would cost BMW less than $400 and I'd pay $2000 more for that bike, even though I don't need those improvements. I added most as after market upgrades. I didn't bother upgrading the wheels or suspension because those are expensive and I wouldn't benefit enough to justify the cost. KTM swapping tubeless alloy wheels for tube spoked wheels was a step in the wrong direction their 490 Adventure, in my opinion. I wish there was a good after market 5 gallon fuel tank for the G310GS because no ADV bike should have a 2.9 gallon fuel capacity.
Bike manufacturers, not just BMW, look at their small ADV bikes as beginner bikes. They use them to get new customers on the upgrade path to their mid size and full size ADV bikes. Older riders typically have more discretionary income and are buying smaller bikes because they have trouble handling and lifting larger bikes, but I'd argue that a small ADV bike like the G310GS is better off road for all riders. Unfortunately, the marketing department doesn't want to admit this, so they won't sell full featured lightweight ADV bikes because if they did, most people wouldn't buy their more expensive larger bikes. That's why smaller ADV bikes are built to a budget and are stripped of premium features. The companies would rather sell someone their first bike, that leads to their second and third. They aren't interested in selling old riders their last bike, so they miss the opportunity to make an R1300GS Adventure profit margin on a G310GS Adventure.
I agree-I’m new to the scene but when I saw the larger bikes my first thought was, why. Smaller, more nimble makes more sense to me for numerous reasons.
Well said.
Good honest real world review . Enjoyed it and I have to say the Himalayan gets my vote! Cheers to Nathan whose enormous experience in riding these bikes gives this review so much credibility.
Agree with your comments on the Himalayan - 80-90kph touring on back roads is very “comfortable” , corners like its on rails and its very “gravel” / dirt road capable. I found that this was the best “all-rounder” of all the bikes I tested (including these 4) so I bought one to keep my Ducati company and haven’t looked back.
The Himalayan would be my ideal bike. Cheap in price, economical to maintain, simple mechanics, if you drop it it doesn't hurt. Quiet on the highway, and more than capable on dirt tracks. Little depreciation compared to more expensive motorcycles. Think about it, a 10k motorcycle loses almost half of what the himayan costs when its warranty expires. And also the Royal is a good motorcycle for day to day.
Cons? worse weight / power ratio, but assuming that it is not the philosophy of the motorcycle it will be a missile, I would not say that it is a cons. For me, I also like to drive a motorcycle that is not very powerful, it is more fun to ride a motorcycle and always look for the perfect regime to squeeze it to the fullest without surprises or big booms. I almost forgot, everyone says that the front brake is bad.
Ps: If the new 450 follows the same philosophy, it may be my new bike.
The new one will be far more expensive. All new liquid cooled motor is more expensive on its own.
I want the 450 and apparently 6600 brand new for the top spec is a really great price.
And for the front brake issues I would probably look into an upgraded braking system.
But if I get one of these I do t think I’d ever sell it.
I like my 2021 Himmy.
Light enough to throw in the back of my pickup truck and get it to the starting point of a BDR.
Cheap enough that if it get dropped I just don't care.
NO fing computer ride modes. Just ride a real motorcycle!
God bless from grey skied N.E. Ohio
PS Good to see Our friend Nathan included for experienced sensible input.
He knows the pluses and minuses of the sub 500cc class travel / trail / adventure bikes.
On the 390 it is the side stand that can make it cut out. Only happens if you drop your heals standing up and your going at it. I found just keeping the stand clean and lubed solved it. Long life grease or copper grease worked best.
If you still have trouble then cut or bend the foot bar on the stand out the way.
Cheers
Paul
Great review, I’m team Himmy all the way, such great value and can do it all albeit at a leisurely pace
Aggressive riding is for fools .So this is where the Himmy is best.
Love my himmy in Ohio
The Himmy surely can't make the CRF300 on extreme off road
*Crap Game* 🎉
Racked my brain trying to choose between all these bikes. In the end, I spent my money on a new DR650. Cheaper to buy, more capable at everything, only a little heavier, noticeably more powerful, no electronic to faff with/fail.
Same reason i ride a BMW 650 gs.
Bigger is better😅.
Just wait a bit longer for Himalayan 450
Excellent choice and the same place I ended up after trying out one of the 250cc class dual sports. They just don’t have enough grunt for highway travel with luggage on an incline or headwind.
sadly a new dr isn't an option in large chunks of the globe due to emissions.....
Off all the similar bike reviews I've seen, this one is the absolute best. They focus on the information and opinion we need, no the specs we can see online. Well done. Keep content like this coming please.
I bought my Scram 411 purely on how it made me feel.
I have a 310gs which has had all of the Rally Raid parts added(suspension, wheels bars and exhaust) it is now super capable on and off road and is probable the bike that should have been produced from the factory. Super enjoyable to ride and will go anywhere.
Glad to see people are still wasting money
Interesting, but sounds like this was made last summer of 22. The New Voge 300 the cheap Chinese Rallye 300 clone is about to drop and the new 400 cc Triumph is coming soon as is the 450 water cooled RE.
Things will look different by the end of 23.
Happy Safe Riding !!
@@rondobrondo What do you mean?
@@michaelskinner896he means he has small dick energy, so needs to compensate...
@@rondobrondoyeah wasting money
Great video! And Nathan was spot on. I own a CRF Rally, but had a go on the BMW, and hired a Hymalyan in Morocco last year. The Hymalsyan was great to travel on, I found the Beemer good for commuting. The Rally, I rode it a full year before throwing in a Rally raid suspension kit. It pulls better now that the engine doesn't have to fight the soft suspension. With the kit, it much more planted on and off the road. Ride safe.
I did the same with my KTM390Adv. Installed the Adreanni fork cartridges and Hyper Pro shock. Totally transformed the bike.
It pulls better now that the engine doesn't have to fight the soft suspension.... SPEECHLESS 🤦♂
Another £1200 or so for the forks and shock? Think I'll pass on that....
Great video. I appreciated the insight on how the bikes do against the "conditions" rather than against each other. I think for someone unfamiliar that is more important. 👍
another KTM 390 owner here and absolutely agree with comments. It's a great road bike and when you wring its neck a bit you can pretty much keep up with mid sized ADV bikes just fine (on tarmac). But it's seriously compromised off road. Lifting the handlebars with spacers helps a bit, pivot pegs help a lot and swapping tyres out for something more aggressive makes a huge difference off road. Letting the engine breathe with a more open flow exhaust has also helped make it sound a LOT better and provide a tad more torque ( perhaps 5%? ) It can't go where a 690 / 890 can go but for half the price isn't bad at all. Ive had zero reliability issues but try to keep its switchgear dry as they are susceptible to rain getting into the the electrics. Front suspension is too soft for anyone over 70kg. It's unpleasant on highways with a lot of vibration so mostly good for a few hrs blasting around local tarmac corners and dirt roads.
Would you buy it again or get something else ?
I have one... would i buy it again. For the money brand new, nothing is close to the performance and handling. A few mods and its even better, like a different end can, raising the bars and turning them forward a bit, getting some decent handguards and playing around with a hacksaw, ally plate and bingo, high level enduro mudguard which suits the look better. The only thing I despise abou the bike is the OEM end can. That and the other box next to the rear shock are just about the nastiest ugliest cheap poorly made and badly finished pieces of crap ever attached to a motorcycle.
Best upload I've ever watched from MCN. These two shine together. Great watch. All you could ever need to know about these bikes within one watch 👍
Great review Michael and team!!!
Dealing with the constant niggles and issues with the RE made me look at the KTM. Just upgraded to the 390ADV last month and ive never been so thrilled. The electronics package is great, the adjustable suspension is comfortable and the engine is just the icing on the cake. Its so much fun on and off the road.
I'm still in the process of unlearning himalayan. The KTM has brought back that zing in my ride which was missing dearly. I can now comfortably keep up with all my fellow riders who have bigger bikes like 1250GS and Tiger.
Best decision so far🤘
Constant niggles? What nonsense
Exactly
Perfectly said!!!
could’ve just waited for the Himalayan 450 to release. Get a much improved bike with the RE warranty instead of buying the KTM
@@MrThejunkman Honestly, I'm done with RE. You would know the pain of owning an RE these days. I still have the interceptor in my garage, but she's a "tarmac queen".
Trust me when I say this, RE is not the same anymore, there are heaps of quality issues and the fixes if added over time, ain't cheap.
It will be interesting when you guys get to test the Himalayan 450. I think the Royal Enfield is the most bang for the money.
absolutely not. It is the gold standard in vehicle design but definitely falls behind in other category
your right it is the best bang for the money,,but someone needs to show the indians how to weld ..look at the frame🤣🤣
Its Sad that The Honda is not available in India.
@@davidbarnes7150British design. What do you expect
@@davidbarnes7150 Royal Enfield Himalayan is designed by Pierre Terblanche, who designed famous Ducati bikes.
Great content, the 'this might work for you if....' approach is spot on. Please can you do a 'Scrambler that can scramble' equivalent using the same locations? There's now: RE Scram411, Fantic Cabellero 500 Rally, '23 Mash X trail 650cc and Triumph 900 scrambler.... that ought to be a giggle 😉
A scrambler that can scramble is definitely the Ducati Desert Sled
I’m a Honda owner, very pleased with it and it’s true that it could be produced with a better package. If sales volume speak volumes the Honda is streets ahead of the others. The question really is, why don’t other manufacturers produce a better version of the CRF?
You can't go long miles with it's narrow and sloping seat. It's for trail riders. It makes power at high rpm that is annoying to wring throttle with extra effort everytime to accelerate. It's barely an adventure bike.
Kawasaki make the klx250, Yamaha made the WR250R which was (and still is) leagues better than the crf250 and 300 out the box. Emissions killed them both off. The only reason honda was able to make the crf is because the had a cheap, efficient engine from the CB/ CBR 250/300 range to shoehorn in. It's unfortunate that other manufacturers are no longer producing 250 trail bikes, so your choice of new bikes effectively consists of a woefully undersuspended CRF, or 10 grand, highly strung EXC or similar. If the Chinese bikes from the likes of Kove gain traction maybe they'll push the development of the market?
I can see the new Kove being a hit if reliable 👍
@@rodrozil6544 The Rally is only a decent suspension upgrade and seat away from being a really good bike. I think you do it and the amount of people it is hauling around the world, as we type, a disservice
@@rodrozil6544 I have to disagree with you. I have a 250l rally with a stock seat and a $30 coleman atv seat cover. I do 7-8 hour rides with bigger ADV bikes and I'm just fine. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
I've had my KTM 390ADV for nearly 3 years now. I originally bought it for 20-30 mile road runs to do some Green Lanes, plus some fun on local back roads.
It generally does it well. I never quite got the problem with the foot pegs, I have since fitted the SW Motec pegs and I still can't notice the difference! That is probably me.
For me it definitely benefited from 20mm bar risers, and tilting the bars forward (and lower the clutch handle down)... I always felt that I was going to disappear over the handlebars.
I hardened up the pre load front and rear by 2 clicks as I found it too bouncy, esp under braking (I weigh ~82kg for reference).
The tyres (TKC70s) are 'difficult' In any kind of mud, especially Essex clay... Much happier with the TKC80s, I have also found they are equally capable on the road as the 70s (I didn't trust them at first)... They do make the steering a bit more 'twitchy' / sensitive when traveling at 60mph plus on the A14/A12 for example!
The TC used to annoy me but now , with more experience, I've got the hang of feathering the clutch so I don't stall the bike and leave the TC on... I never used to see the TC light come on unless I was in deep mud or water, so it is kinda pointless on this size of bike.
I've never really heard about the 'cutting out' problem before... I thought it was me! I've had it a few times, never off road as far as I can remember... I shall think about this... I am sure it is something to do with turning left though!
Anyway, over all, after three years I still love my 390 ADV.
I recently did three days of backroads and byways from South Essex to North Norfolk, followed by a three hour 'A Road' ride back home to South Essex... The bike performed beautifully and I loved the adventure.
I have never tried the other bikes so I can't comment, other than they would probably have been fine doing the trip too.
how tall are you, inseam and arm length?
I own a crf300l. Awesome little bike but it is sooo much better after having those shocks upgraded.
Quero comprar uma que alterações fez e sente se realizado com a mota ?
Hom much $$ ??
I really enjoyed the review. I would love to see how the new HIMALAYAN 450 would fit into your earlier commentary. I am looking at my first Adventure bike. Thanks for your feedback.
Love this - met Nathan on his old 110cc post bike in deepest darkest China. Glad to see he’s still rolling.
Pleasure to see nathan here..i have always loved his reviews
Best, most thorough review I've ever seen. Excellent work pointing out pros and cons of each. Thank you!
The crime is that all the big motorcycle manufacturers reluctantly and belatedly provided a small ADV bike but they were all very careful to design and market them as budget or beginner bikes. Their goal was to produce a bike that would attract new customers and get them upgrading as soon as possible to their bigger, heavier and much more expensive mid or full size ADV bikes. That was at odds with what we wanted - a lightweight ADV bike that was off road oriented in a way that a heavier bike could never be, but with enough power to cruise on the highway when needed. The Chinese aren't part of the big moto cartel, so they aren't playing that game. We're seeing bikes like the CF Moto 450 Ibex. It's still a bit heavier than it could be and should be, but it's off road oriented and has a large 17 liter (4.6 gallon) fuel capacity. Replace some steel with aluminum and a few other weight savings tricks and it could be the unicorn bike we wanted for decades. Kove should make an ADV version of their 450 Dakar bike.
Always great to see lightweight ADV getting some love... have ridden mine 20,000miles in the last 2 seasons (primarily on dirt) and loved every minute of it.
One thing I think would be great for this sort of a compare - yes let us know how they do stock but ALSO let us know how they do with "typical" ADV customizations, like proper spring/valve swap and sag setup (for adv use, which in my experience means stiffer everything) and knobby tires fit for purpose (something like tkc80's for light offroad ADV/ MT21's or similar for moderate offroad ADV)... along with any other things needed (like luggage if it's not included) and how much it costs to get the bike properly set up for an ADV tour.
Quibbles - The Himilayan is almost 450lbs... IMO not a lightweight ADV... middleweight (unless this compare is really "low power ADV" or "low cost ADV"). Looks like it weighs about the same as the KTM 890 so I'd compare it to the other middleweight class options. The other three are in the "lightweight ADV" weight class (300-400lbs IMO) so I'd compare them to the king of the lightweight adv class... a properly set up 690 ADV R (and others in that class like that very cool new Chinese ADV bike and AJP PR7).
Can't argue with that mate. I don't think I've ever left a single bike I've owned stock. Obviously nice to know what comes out the box is nearest what we're looking for but from my experience we all generally get roughly the same sort of mods done. Having said that I doubt it's in their budget to start chucking bits on them to let us know what their like 😅
The Versys 300 is often overlooked in this category. A sensational-it-all bike for the money. 2 cylinders make life easier on the freeway and not a great deal of trade off for in the slower stuff. Find a sprocket that suits the riding type.
I agree with you. I've seen several bike tests and reviews of small capacity bikes, and all the journalists seem to forget about the Versys-x 300. I have had one for 4 years and still love its versatility. I've done long km trips, fast paced rides on twisties, gravel roads and even 4x4 tracks. The limit has been the pilot, not the bike.
Unfortunately Kawasaki discontinued the versys 300 a couple of years ago in Europe so wasn't included in the test
@@simemo75 Excellent choice 👍
@@nathanthepostman Shame that. It's a superb all-rounder and a whole lot of fun on any road.
@@nathanthepostman i wasn't aware of this. Now I understand. Thanks for clarifying Nathan👌
Rode the GS the other day and was impressed. Brakes were good, the engine is designed to have peak power at 9500 rpm and peak torque @7000 rpm thats why it needs to be revved !! Its designed to do it - Trust me it was pulling 80 uphill and 90mph on the straight, ktm slightly faster but not much in it real world. GS more comfortable and better warranty than the KTM which has a hard seat ( bmw 3 years and 3 years roadside assistance) and recently on offer for £5500 with 0% finance (only one of these with 0%) compared to the spoked ktm (£6700) (2 year warranty and stalling issues at speed not good but a decent bike..... however GS Still a good bike for the money! dont be put off . Himalayan 5 seconds slower 0 to 60 mph than GS and brakes do mot inspire confidence on the road. Honda great bike off road but soft suspension and not as good road bike as the GS. Stainless steel braided brake lines and stainless exhaust on the BMW too....Decent dash if more basic than the ktm still has everything. Dont be put off the BMW its good value.....other than these the new Honda 500x with the showa suspension is your best bet at £6695 . Riding since 1998 so thats my fairly experienced 10 pence worth and lets face it, if you were seriously off roading you would upgrade the tires etc anyway from the standard rubber 👍🏼
Excellent review....definitely want the Himalayan for the reasons mentioned....plod comfortably around the world
I am not sure if many adventure bike spends much time off-road, so road orientation is the way to go for a volume manufacturer. The Himalayan is designed from the outset to be a compromise and a jack of all trades isn’t going to be perfect in any.
I think that when I pass my test and loose the Varadero 125 (which I do like) I will probably get a Himalayan because its classless and not a cliche and I am an old git who thinks n‘owt is any good nowadays 😂
Great review thanks. There is the KTM390ADV X version stripped of all electronics to consider for less negative remarks, and also the new off-road version which is being planned to be released in 2025. Something like an "R" version. Then I'm sure it will eliminate even it's closest competitors unless it's rivals do something similar. After my T7, I ordered the 390ADV SW version since I'll be doing no more than 5% light offroads when I started searching for a lightweight enduro/adventure/travel bike. Just not off the beaten path.
Nice to see Nathan here, I've enjoyed many of his videos.
Definitely the himalayan for me. Ideal for back lanes
The shout out of @itchyboots just proves that a dual sport is more than capable to ride on tarmac as well as hardcore off-roading. 👍❤️
Funnily enough, this goes for both the CRF300R and the Himmy!
I have the Rally it’s not that great on the highway. Imagine standing on the roof of a house when it’s windy.
I know it’s not perfect but what bike is?
Love Itchy. She has some real courage and skills.
No way I do Africa.
Within the last 5 years I first got the BMW, found it great at first, but the engine was too buzzy for me at high speeds after one or two weeks. Then I got the KTM and it was kinda the same it only took me longer to feel its buzzyness. Also the ground clearance was very bad and that flimsy plastic factory bash plate broke from hitting a small stick already. Then inbetween I got a Suzuki SV650 and it was the best road bike I ever had. So much fun on the road! For all my almost 20 year riding I never got more than one cylinder and never got a naked bike. And I got hooked immediately. So much so that I was planning to get a Triumph Street Triple 765 or an Aprilia RS660 next. But what I was really missing with the Suzuki was the off road and the versatility in city commuting. You couldnt take the same shortcuts with it, that I was used to on my other bikes. Like going over kerbsides or some stairways. And I was going green lanes on the SV also, but had to go so slow. So now I got the CRF 300 l (not the Rally) and it is such a huge step above both the G310 and 390 ADV, when it comes to off road riding! And the engine is better than I thought. And its also the best city bike I ever owned. My plan is to save up to a Street bike, so I have the CRF for everyday use and a naked or sportsbike for when I need the speed or have to get somewhere fast. I was always hesitant to get two bikes. But now I see its the only way for me that makes sense.
Bought the KTM last week. If you want to ride 100 miles on high speed roads to get to your dirt riding, it’s the one for me. The street legal trail bikes mostly are terrible on the road and most of us spend more time on the road. Probably the RE would suffice too for this kind of riding but wringing its neck just to keep up with traffic with nothing left for overtaking doesn’t sound fun. As a backroad/no road travel tool, I bet it’s brilliant. Honestly, I didn’t buy the KTM for off road riding. It’s for any road riding, from unpaved dirt roads in the forest to 70mph motorways. For that, it’s a blast. If I want to travel 2000 miles, I’ll take my V-Strom 650.
Great to see Nathan sharing his knowledge and experience . He knows these bikes well and many others also !
Great summery at the end. Thanks for all the info, good video.
Great review guys - more of this please from MCN.
Honda would be the way to go if you are looking for the winner. This is only bike that can not only do local adventure, but cross continent trip with it.
And you will come back, with the same bike ... :)
Surely the RE has proved itself as well.
@@davidmatthews3093 Rode a group with RE Himalaya in my trip in Indonesia to Singapore trip...my advice is do not depend on it - it is not only unreliable but also fragile. We had the clutch cable snapping, and host of other issues during the trip.
Whichever bike you choose, it's a great place to ride. Love Exmoor 🏍️
Nathans been covering all this stuff for years. MCN is behind the bell-curve on this.
The more I ride my Himalayan 411 the more I fall in love with it. I’d choose it over any other bike less than $8000. Upgrading the cam and getting a fuel map and some free flow exhaust make the bike into a solid riding experience that you cannot get for anywhere near the price. The look too, it’s the only one that has that old school look that I can ride anywhere on.
How much $ were your upgrades?
Love my 20211 himmy. I can ride it year round here in grey wet cold N.E. Ohio 😂
@@clroger4 no idea, bought it like this for $5000, low miles, and tons of spare parts.
I've got a brand new rally, it's my 1st bike at 58 and yes on corrugations it feels like the back tyre is flat.
If I keep it long term ill upgrade the suspension.
Great video.
62 years old. In N.E. Ohio and I love my little Himmy
Keep ridin!!
Perfect video for me right now. I'm currently looking at all four of these as my next bike. Thx.
was here just because the Himalayan was in the comparison 😄 I have the bike since 2019 and absolutely love it
Great review. Best summing up of the Himalayan I’ve heard!
How many times have i heard Royal enfield putting smiles on faces it is what it is and it has charm across all its models
I love watching MCN for these detailed comparo videos.
I could listen to Nathan talk about bikes all day. He's old man experience as a young man.
Detailed and technical review which was on point at every stage including the verdict!👍
costs £20 for bar risers and as you guys said, rotate the bars forward and the KTM bars are about 2" higher, and therefore isnt bad. Also the 2023 electronics keep the traction control and ABS off once swiched off, even when you stall - which is a dealer upgrade thats free when you get it serviced. And yes I've got one 🙂
Excellent video fellas, good honest review. I'd almost stopped watching MCN bike reviews as they seemed biased towards certain makes. Not this review though - well done!
I wonder how my Classic 350 would do on those trails ;-)
In india we get the Adventure 390 X which does not have any of the elctronics intrusion as you said at 14:17 and its even cheaper than what you have got in the video. the only downside to that version is, it does not have spoked wheels or adjustable suspension.
I have a 2021 Himalayan. I have done some long trips on this bike and ridden it on some knurly roads. It's not perfect but it is a lot easier to ride off road than the Africa Twin I owned earlier. I am 68 years old and I'm 5'4" so the Himalayan suits me. It's gravel road performance is quite good. The gas mileage and range is also good. It is very well suited to packing a lot of stuff on it. It is a little lame on the highway but I can live with it. Off road, I find it a little disappointing. It is heavy and the suspension is not great. In Canada we have a lot of logging roads. These are much worse than gravel roads, they are often steep and if they are old, the erosion can make them very difficult. Last year I fell on one of these and even though I had an armoured jacket, when I landed on a rock, I broke two ribs. Recently while searching for a ghost town, I abandon my search because of the quality of the roads.
62 years young and love my 2021 little Himmy, in Ohio. Like me, it just plugs along with no electronics 😅
I'm sure with a little tweaking, the Svartpilen 401 could compete with these. They are currently cheaper than the RE Himalayan where I'm from, with almost twice the hp and much lighter.
Svartpilen 401 is the same engine as KTM 390, although it's more like a 390 Duke than a 390 Adventure.
The Svartpilen 401 is like if you turn a KTM Duke 390 into a scrambler. They're quite capable offroad, though, because they're light and nippy.
Svartpilen vitpilen what's the big difference different tire size
Unfortunately the closest dealer is 2 hours away. Ohio
That model is not shown either 🇺🇸 sadly
I tested the ktm for the time ever today and coming from big adv bikes I felt this little adv bike is an absolute beauty. I spend all my time on the road at it suits me at my age 67 because it’s so manageable. Regards John
I'm glad I can still buy the bike I have in Canada. It is simpler to maintain and a better bike off road than all of these and it weighs less than all of these other than the crf which weighs 95% as much as my DR6650. Go ahead tell me it's not an adventure bike because it doesn't have a piece of plexiglass. I rode it 10,000km across Canada and then turned around and went back home.
very useful, keep these comparison videos coming! for the 650 class too
The BMW is a great little bike, can't understand why you're so critical. It will do gentle off road, no problem. It will cruise at 60-70mph all day (top speed 88mph). I get 81 mpg and it LOVES being revved.
390 adventure. Just bought one. Handles things perfectly fine with right tires and a few mods.
God...that was one smart, searching, review.
The thing that is so often missing in reviews is exploring the implications of different rider needs & preferences, and also skill levels.
This review confirms my preference for a Himalayan (this 411, or, the upcoming 450?) because it's solid explorer bike that carries the gear, tractors over the terrain, and doesn't require razor sharp off-road skills.
There is another small adventure motorcycle worth considering in this context. It is Zongshen RX3 (CSC RX3 in USA), a 250cc adventure motorcycle.
We don't get it in Europe unfortunately
That reminds me, I think Suzuki also have a V-Strom 250SX coming soon.
Second time I've watched this review.... initially when I got interested in lightweight adventure bikes.... and now when I got to the decision of which one I'm going to buy which happens to be in the list of your reviews..... I remember all the trials 60s and 70s were all thumping single cylinders and they got them up those Hills.... I think it's definitely the Himalayan for me.... I've done all the projectile rides I just want a lazy plod
Lazy plod 😂 👍 love mine.
I wanted something different from the superbikes I own and these were my choices 2 years ago, before I brought one (including the Benelli TRK502X & CB500X). All I can say is I test rode all of them and out of these 4 there is only 2 choices from my experience the KTM or CRF. The HONDA is just too under power for everyday life and for me the clear winner here is the KTM. I have owed one now for over 2 years and it is my go to over anything else. Fun on the road, fine on light Green trails and far more powerful than any of the other 3 by miles!. I even use it now to go long distances with bikes of much higher CC and I have never felt like I am missing out. The ENFIELD is dated in everyway and never fun at road riding, the BMW is too over priced in everyway from a road and trial point of view. The test here should have been the KTM, CRF, Benelli 502X, the new VOGE525DSX and not forgetting the CB500X. All much better than the bikes on test here for all round fun. The truth is as figures show 9 out 10 people who buy these bikes will not be riding over the Sahara desert on them or even taking them to the local MX track (including GS owners). It is also worth mentioning this was an unfair test, the KTM selected was the more expensive 390 Adventure SW, but does also come much cheaper with cast wheels. I have tested all of the above and therefore feel this is a fair view, however this is only my view.
I have ridden them all too, and chose the Himalayan.
Thank you for this very complete and clear review 👍 I’ve just tried both the KTM and the BMW, for me the BMW works better... more confort and more relax ride. If I’m looking to road performances I would anyway go for way more HP than the 390 😉
For the 390, I don't think the spoked wheels are an exercise in aesthetics. I dented the front wheel of mine enough to break the bead so I had to put a tube in. I have a feeling a stronger spoked wheel would have easily survived.
Other than that, the only one I've ridden long term is my 390. While I have upgraded to an 890R, I will miss the 390. I never felt that I outgrew it or wanted more, I just got a screamer of a deal on a new bike and can't justify 5 bikes. I mean I could, but my wallet can't.
Another absolutely fantastic video & review. Great work gentleman
Thanks, great vid! I'm currently looking at 3 bikes and you've shown 2 of them. KTM 390 love the tech pack but hate the stance of the bike,300 rally because at the cost of KTM with the extra mods, I can get ECU, bigger airflow, an exhaust system, and a new suspension f&r and a 40+hp bike that is amazing offroad on and on-road but doesn't have the lean traction and other tech that KTM has. Then the bike I feel should have been included is the Kawaski Vrsy 300 is so comfy like the Royal Enfield Great input on expectations thanks!!!
So basically for those on a budget...nothing good (or really "complete"). We need to wait (and hope) for the new Himalayan. Great review btw
Definitely high hopes for the new Himalayan. Could be a perfect 390 adventure/crf 300 rally mix. 40bhp with a 21 inch front. Promising...
I own both the KTM390 Adventure and a Honda crf300l and would agree with your review of both bikes. I love both bikes but wouldn't want either as my only bike. Regarding the suspension on the Honda, I plan on upgrading it this winter. It's really my only gripe with the bike. I'm very intrigued with the new 2024 Himalayan but I'm a bit disappointed with the weight compared to the KTM 390. You also get a lot of bang for the buck with the 390.
I'm torn between the 390 adv and the cfr300ls (I'm short so I'd go with the low seat edition). I live in Texas so any trail riding is going to require more to drive at least an hour or two away. Because of this, I'm leaning towards the 390. But i don't want to get it and regret it the second I hit the trails since the cfr is much more capable off road.
I'm right there with you. Currently on a Ninja 650 and trying to change to something with a little more off road capability. My take is: if you've ridden dirt bikes and are used to how an Enduro/Dual Sport feels in handling and on the road... the CRF300L should be fine. It sacrifices on the road riding, but can handle most off road since it's effectively a street legal dirt bike with a big tank. However, if you're coming from a street bike, especially one with forward handlebars, the 390 Adv will suit you better. You also can ask yourself how much offroad do you want to do. A lot, especially difficult stuff? Go CRF300L Rally. Only some, and very occasionally something a little more challenging, 390 Adv. There are videos of guys doing some pretty serious trails with the 390.
Point about KTM is 100% true. The only reason I sold mine is that character of the bike. Amazing choice for people who like that type.
Great review. How about the Versys 300x?
Sadly no longer on sale or else would have been good to include.
This is number one on my bucket list. Get a bike like one of these and ride!! (It's been a looong time.)
Shame that the Versys wasn't in the group.
The 300 x would be one of my first choices for test ride if I was looking at this segment
Sadly discontinued a few years ago. Having ridden one of would almost have matched the KTM for on road performance and been a little better off road than it. The seat on the Kawasaki was terrible but it loved to rev. Fun bike to ride. And reliable.
@@nathanthepostman they still are in production for USA
@@timm1583 yes it's a shame they discontinued it here in Europe. I don't think it was a big enough seller.
Be interesting to see NTham and yourself ride the CRF and Voge 300 rally together, very similar except the Voge is £2500 cheaper.
I looked at all of these except the RE. I bought the Honda and it satisfies. It seems a better bike for “adventure” unless freeway travel at more than 55 mph is any part of the adventure, or when adventure means more than 50 mile events at which point your butt will be very sore.
why is the mic quality so bad? maybe its because they are talking so loud. i have the volume the lowest it can go and they still sound way louder than even the driving scenes
I've done the A2 day with Nathan and thoroughly recommend it. I loved the KTM but to be fair I'd be happy to own any of them.
What I'm really curious about now is how the bikes do with those improvements you talked about some of them needing. How do they stack up when the KTM has those upright footpegs, and the BMW and Honda have better suspension?
That's a question I would love to see answered. It would be great if we had those sorts of reviews, from owners. Once the bike has been upgraded to the basics that everyone does, let's come back for review.
One Awesome Vlog to clear ALL doubts ❤
For me as a traveler, the best is the Honda CRF because is the lightest and the most off road capable you can lift up easily !! you can put crash bars, luggage etc. and travel and enjoy the landscapes, etc.
Nice review!👍
Given only one choice, it would be The Honda CRF300L Rally only!👍😎
Ultimately, rider preference wins in the end here.👌😉
Ride To Live!✌🤙
Great video, but the sound was terrible. Please get some decent close hand-held mics for the feedback sections! Not a good idea to just wing it with clip mics. Your videographer and editor know this is true.
Other than that, learned a lot about these bikes. Appreciated. Thank you :)
Great video and wonderful format. Going to give a headstart to potential buyers.
I would take the Honda first then the Himalayan.
I think you need to include the new 450 Himalayan which is a brand-new design by RE. I love my KTM 390 ADV after coming off a 1700 V-Twin. The looks, the electronics, the suspension all tick boxes for me and that's why I bought it.
Royal Enfield is about to come with a 400 liquid cooled himalyan that makes around 40 hp that will be around 5800 usd
Standing's an issue for me on the G310GS, especially trying to get the rear brake. So I'm seriously considering getting a Voge. Test riding one at CMS on Saturday hopefully!
How did it go with the Kove?
My G650gs does everything, thumper with grunt and 650 power, probably the best all around bike ever built.
Interesting test of some great real everyday machines. I've not ridden any of these but could be in the market for something like this that handles rough roads with (maybe) the odd tarmacked trail. The forthcoming Himalayan 450 looks very interesting as does the Triumph Scrambler 400.
It would be great if there were more such machines..40 years ago there were decent 400cc or thereabouts options from all the major Japanese manufacturers.
And all I really want is a CRF500 Rally at around 150kg. H 701 LR little bit too heavy, ktm 500 exc-f bad service intervals as it is not a dualsport. ktm 450 rally replica perfect, but with 36.000 EUR ... well, yeah.
great review from people who know what they are talking about 👏👌
I have a himalayan and an africa twin adventure sports dct.
Himalayan every time for green laning .
It's unbelievably tough .
Africa twin mostly tarmac stuff as I really don't want to break it off road.
I started riding 50cc,
Then I got to 125cc,
Then to 600cc (ending on R6 super-sport).
Now I'm riding a 1000cc with more power I ever needed.
And I'm thinking to switching to one of these small bikes.
I think I got out of the-more-cc-the-better-rat-race.
The time has come!
Still impatiently waiting for Yamaha to finally produce a WR450R which might be the only worthy successor to my WR250R.
It’s a bit baffling there’s no one fairly good bike for on and off road in this category.