Oneida Dust Deputy v Jet Cyclonic Separator Comparison
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Two stage dust collection is a significant improvement over single stage, but not all separators are created equal! In this video I compare the Oneida Dust Deputy to the new Jet Cyclonic Separator.
Article: ycmt2.com/blog/CycloneComparison
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MATERIALS USED:
Oneida Dust Deputy: amzn.to/325wB0U
Jet Cyclonic Separator: amzn.to/3EZr1fa
VIDEOS REFERENCED:
Dusty Deputy and Thein Baffle Comparison: • Thien Baffle or Cyclon...
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00:00 Intro
01:30 Dust Deputy Setup
03:48 Single/Two Stage Explanation
06:49 Dust Deputy Testing
10:11 Jet Set Up and Testing
15:46 Summary
#woodworking #dustcollection #cyclone - Навчання та стиль
If you had fed the chips in at a realistic rate (not just dumping the end of the hose into a bucket) I bet you would have seen higher efficiencies out of both with them ending within about 1% of eachother. Once you started loosening the clog in the Jet, a good handful or two of chips went straight through to the dust collector because it it simply didnt have the necessary velocity.
Another way to think about the issue... just because a wet/dry vac can pick up water, that doesnt mean it's going to fair well if you use it to drain your swimming pool.
It’s got a real world test unless your doing a clean up even my 24” planner would not produce that amount of chips (or your running more that one planner at a time.
Nice job Caleb. What I like about your demos is the fact you do give your opinion, but you allow the viewer to make up their own minds to the effectiveness of the product. Thanks, and keep up the good work. Stay safe and have a day.
Thanks, Robert! I’m hesitant to make any absolute determinations. Ultimately there’s always a use case. And my goal is never to tell folks what to do, but empower through some information and knowledge to hopefully help folks be able to figure out what the right decision is for them. I feel like that’s the best value I can bring to anyone.
The ole give a man a fish or teach him fish parable…
Thanks for always watching and commenting!
I always like your comparison/instructional videos.
Thanks!
Having just ordered the Oneida model an hour ago, I sure feel better about my purchase!! Thanks.
You’ll enjoy it
Ah, another person who does more research AFTER buying. Glad I have some company in that regard.
Did you go through my search history, I've been comparing those 2 things the last couple days to figure out which I want.....thank you for this
Haha I haven’t! But google has and sent it your way 😉
While you had your hand in the Jet unclogging it, a big clump of chips went into the hose connecting to the fan. So the 9% loss isn't really accurate.
Came here to say this. Also worth noting the price points aren't the same globally (like triple the price for oneida here), so the Jet/"Megaton" is actually really compelling for small home workshop setups (where the space saving is actually good)
Appreciate your video and helpful analysis here, esp since it’s for the benefit of others, you having a system in place.
This is a good practical review, testing it the way many people use it.
Thanks! Though many here may disagree with you, haha. Most reviews agree with my results though.. anything but fine dust, no matter how slow you feed it.. will clog it.
Thanks, really well made comparison video!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the great video! Looks like I made the right choice as I have my Oneida in the box !
Thanks for sharing that! I built a homedepot Cyclon!
Very cool! That was my first set up
Pretty interesting results, dude! Great testing!!! 😃
Here I use the cyclone I could find and a pretty small bucket. 😬
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks man! And hey if it works, it works. What’s most important is just doing something to keep that stuff out of your lungs
Thanks for making this. I was considering the jet for my new little system that will vent outside, mostly because it's compact...and I wanted to watch the dust fly around 😂.
After watching I'll definitely get the dust deputy... cleaning up 10% of my chips on the side of the house isn't optimal 😂🤣
In defense of the Jet Cyclonic Separator, I think the clog you experienced came from your hose sucking up too much material. Under normal circumstances, I don't think a machine in a "small shop" is going to generate that much dust, that quickly. You did stick the hose right into the bucket of waste material, which is not equivalent to connecting it to a machine. I think it might be possible that part of the 9% loss can be contributed to the root cause of the clog. Having said all that, I am, overall, very happy with my Super Dust Deputy, and have no plans to replace it..
I thought I mentioned it at the end but I might've forgotten... after several clogs I turned off the camera and just tried to get through the bucket. Even started slowly hand feeding it and it still clogged. Dug the manual and website and found a line on the site that it's only good for debris
Was thinking the same. Perhaps dump the "dust" from the bucket into rows. Then suck up the rows at a rate similar to what a machine would produce. Would be a better evaluation than just sticking a hose into a big pile of chips.
Would also be better to mix the test sample weel and split it in half. The weight you replaced for your second test probably didn't match the material type you lost during the first test.
Great video! I have one tiny comment. The fact that you practically ran the same dust collection first through the DD and THEN through the Jet means that the first time around there are small particles that were already removed in the first run, and when you added more dust in you added a mix of large and small chunks, leaving less small chunks to be missed by the Jet. An alternative more "scientific" way in my opinion may be to take one batch and separate it into two "equal" batches (equal in their likely characteristics, not weight necessarily as you're measuring the % that gets past) then see which one is more efficient. Though in the end i don't think it would've mattered, the DD is much more efficient. you could just see big chunks flying though the Jet and out the other side. 👍
You ended with the response I have to everyone who criticizes my test technique - which admittedly could have been better. That is... the amount of error isn't close to changing the key take away. One can only handle fine dust, the other can handle any machine.. and is more effective.
I'd suggest using a can liner next time. Won't have to worry about losing any from spilling
That's a good idea!
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for watching!
I always thought a cyclone would outperform one of those centrifugal ones. Thanks for confirming.
Happy to help satiate your curiosity
Under Dunn made one like this but it's longer so better airflow path which doesn't clog, so it works better than this Jet version.
@@davidpeters8813 and funny as hell.....
@@supersope yes, he is very entertaining!
For those of us who vent outside (no filter), then the centrifugal far outperforms the cyclone.
Could you possibly use them in tandem and do a 3 stage? Oneida then into the jet kinda curious how that might work
Great show. I would like to buy your old dust separators.
I’d have liked to see you do the same test with much smaller dust since that is what will be clogging the filter.
That'd be worthwhile if one of them didn't clog waaaaaay before you could ever clog a filter.
Just put a barrel in line in front of the jet separator .. the big pieces would fall into that barrel and only small stuff would go to pass through to the separator. That would have you using two barrels which takes up room but it would solve the clogging problem I'm sure. I've for years used a second container in line with my shop vac and it's made a tremendous difference in keeping the filters clean and keeping the system from clogging up on bigger stuff. But it's nice to see a video that's well thought out and certainly fair and unbalanced. Thanks for all the work you do.
That would work, but the barrel systems really kill air flow, it also makes the jet or cyclone redundant.
But that does make me wonder how it’d go to run the pipe through the dust deputy, which is near impossible to clog, then through the Jet.. just to further separate fines.
Not a practical system, but it’d be interesting.
Thanks for the feedback!
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Great job. I love seeing a comparison of these two very interesting technologies. I've been looking at both the Oneida and Jet solutions as options. I think Oneida has a superior product design, but an advantage to the Jet is it's low vertical footprint. For someone like me with low ceilings that is a factor. The chip load does effect efficiency, but it is not an unfair condition in my opinion, because as you said, planers and jointers can produce heavy chip loads.
What does the 1800 CFM number presented at the end mean? Assuming a 3.75 inch internal inlet diameter and taking the Dust Right, Oneida, and Jet inlet velocities as 5827, 4550, and 5000 feet per minute the CFM should be about 447, 349, and 384 CFM respectively. I am using the formula PI() * (3.75/24)^2 * Velocity FPM = CFM. The 750 CFM claimed by the Dust Right is probably what Oneida calls a "Free Fan" number.
I wonder if the height of the Oneida caused the connecting hose to take on more aggressive bends in the flex hose as compared to the Jet? This could explain some portion of the lower velocity measurements of the Oneida.
The jet intake jams up.
Nice comparison! Can you do a similar comparison of your Clear View and the Harvey separators? Both are top of the line small shop units and it would be interesting to see how they perform in a similar test. Thanks for your content and thorough evaluations!
I’d love to, but Harvey would have to provide it. Last I saw those units were like $6k+.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo I get it!! Just thought I'd try. I have found that, overall, a dust mask is the simplest and cheapest remedy to lung problems. I know there is a significant design difference between the Harvey Cyclone and the JET so the Harvey might out preform the ClearView for that reason. Maybe they would "loan" you one for the test??
Wheh! That’s a relief- I have a 5” super dust deputy waiting for installation- alongside an impeller upgrade for my HF dust collector, And porting directly outside, I think I’ll have the bones of a great system. My only bottleneck is the last 5’ straight run into the Cyclone, which is impossible for my install location. But hoping to trade that off by using rigid metal duct and minimal hose.
Thanks for the great test, appreciate you taking the time involved!
My question before pulling the trigger on the 5" SDD (to attach to my 120mm dust collector) is whether I need a steel drum to mount it to as the chip container, or whether something less rigid (and less heavy and less expensive) would work just as well.
@@BdwyMTI I’m using a 55 gallon plastic barrel- but the one with the thicker reinforced/ribbed lid. You could make a plywood lid for it, but the barrel itself will hold up to the vacuum. It’s 3mm hdpe
Thanks for a great video. The patents on cyclone separators must have expired 100 years ago. Don't know what Jet was thinking when they made this. If they had made it a regular clear plastic cyclone it would work well, cost less (no red plug inside) and be cool to look at.
This was a very good presentation for the average user and the results were meaningful and relevant to use. In this particular case.
I would like to contact you to share info that would help if you perform a test like this again in more closely matched products.
Sure thing! I know there’s several things I missed in doing a true apples to apples comparison and getting better numbers. Fortunately in this situation the products performed differently enough I don’t think my test errors were significant. That said, I’m happy to get your input: caleb@ycmt2.com
This was a perfect comparison for me. My single stage dust collector clogs all the time when I clean up after turning on my lathe, so I was to add the second stage (and a better filter). The smaller Jet unit seems to have the same problem my single stage collector has, which means for me, it's not the way to go.
THIS is how you do a "sponsored" review. Terms on the table, points made clearly
I do what I can
I enjoyed this comparison, just as I did the one between your DIY Thein baffle and the Dust Deputy.
The real comparison, in my mind, is the airflow. Separators of all kinds perform very similarly. Yes, you measured a decent difference between the Jet and the Dust Deputy, but we could argue all day about the accuracy and methods, etc. There is no arguing the results of the airflow tests, unless your anemometer is wonky, but I highly doubt that.
I do have to question your cfm calculations. How in the world did you come up with 1800 cfm directly at the inlet of the Dust Right 750 if it is rated at 750 cfm? I'm not saying your comparisons are off. I can do the math on the fpm numbers and get the same percentages. I just don't understand how you calculated 1800 cfm.
The inlet on the 750 is basically 4". It's obstructed with the cross pieces but we'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Converted to square feet, ((4 * pi)/144) is .087266. Multiplied by 5827 fpm, and that's 508 cfm. That's basically what I measured on mine. Even if you say the inlet on the 750 is 6", that's still only about 768 cfm. So where did you come up with 1800?
Like I said, using the fpm measurements, instead of the cfm, there is still a 22% drop with the Dust Deputy compared to a 15% drop with the Jet. Regardless of how you arrived at your cfm numbers, you did it the same for everything so your comparisons are accurate.
All in all, still a very good demonstration. That's how any dust collection evaluation should be. Not just a peek in a bucket and go, "See?"
totally agree, the CFM calculations didn't add up. Did you measure the ID of each inlet? They might all be exactly 4" but still, they should each be measured separately, and CFM calculations determined from those measurements combined with the FPM metrics you collected. Also, where did you get those dust chips used for the demonstration? They looked almost like mulch rather than dust that would be created by normal woodworking tools. I agree with @Woodnoober, these sorts of empirical tests are very helpful, so I appreciate what you've attempted to do. Just a few improvements to the methodology would make it even better. Cheers
p.s. Last thing I'll mention is that all of these UA-cam dust collector tests focus on the amount of suction and separation, and both are very important to be sure. But what I never see factored into these tests is the amount of CAPTURE. All the dust is created at the cutter head obviously, I think the industry as a whole has done a really poor job of addressing hoods and other ways of really properly capturing all the dust at the source so it will go into our expensive dust collection setups and not escape into the air and into our lungs. Cheers
Great job! I wish the comparison would have included the efficiency of different materials though. As you described, different tools create different types of debris. I would have liked to have seen how each stacked up to fine dust as that's what I'm always trying to conquer, in terms of air quality. I'm on my second dust deputy. Had a small one with a shop vac and was so impressed with it that I then created a 3 stage dust extractor using two vacuum motors taken out of large shop vacs. So, I'm pulling dust from the tools, through a Super Dust Deputy, then into a filter box with a merv 8 filter, then a merv 13, then the air goes into a chambered box that houses the shop vac motors (housing is for noise reduction only.) It has a very small footprint. The whole thing is about 25'" x 16" x 7.5 ft tall, including the chip bin. Works like a champ but I started with a 4" inlet pipe at the dust deputy and that was way too small. I increased the pipe to 5" and got better separation of fine dust, then increased to 6" pipe and it got even better, and the filters lasted much longer. Just increased it to 7" and while I haven't done a project with this configuration yet, my expectation is that fine dust separation will again be improved as the particulate matter slows down more as it enters a larger pipe diameter (almost like a slowdown chamber of sorts, just before the cyclone, as the large pipe is less than 7 feet in length). My reason for explaining this is because one of the things I learned is the actual performance of the cyclone is affected by multiple factors, even if the main dust machine is identical. Pipe size matters! My super dust deputy has a 5" inlet and a 6" outlet. I had initially restricted it down to 4" and now it's oversized to 7" and the difference in performance of the cyclone changed significantly with every modification. So, for those out there that think they just need a bigger or fancier dust collector, they might just need to play around with what they already have a little more to optimize it!
Thank you for sharing this sir .
Can you run the onside on its own as my shed is smallish but …
I am in need of dust extraction unit ?
Both of these are just separators, so they still require dust collector behind them to generate the power and filter the exhaust. Rockler also makes a much more compact version of the dust right that may work for you.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo
thank you sir much appreciated ..
Being a woodturner, I made a dust deputy knock-off that gets better than 99% efficiency. It completely eliminated the filter clogging problem I was having with my shop vac.
It appears that the chips you're using are quite large...like wood chip for a garden. I imagine the much finer chips from planers and saws would not clog the jet filter as easily. Would be interesting to see the test done with the chips from a straight blade planer...pretty much the biggest machine generated chips you're likely to get other than a chisel mortiser. Also a huge variable here is the speed at which you lower the hose into the bucket. Too fast and you're guaranteed to clog that jet filter....but if they enter the piping at the speed one would expect a machine to produce them?
Yeah, there is always a tradeoff in airflow efficiency (suction loss) versus filtration efficiency. The Oneida is obviously optimized for larger particles. It would be interesting to see a 3-stage, where there is something that is optimized for tiny particles after the first stage: Chips, dust, finally filter. Of course, that is further airflow loss.
If you live in a semi-warm climate or it's just summer, separate the chips and blow the dust outside with no filter is probably a great option.
I have a small shop and smaller chips.. can you run another test that would apply to most wood workers like me..
Thanks for the comparison! I had been considering the Jet cyclone separator because of the streamlined design, but was concerned about the bad reviews. Right now I have the Woodcraft trash can separator. Do you have any idea how that stacks up to the dust deputy?
I haven't used the trash can separators.. but from my experience with the 5 different set ups I've used and what I've learned, I'd guess the dust deputy is gonna work a whole lot better.
I have the same trashcan separator and in my opinion it is a fairly poor design, but I came up with a work-around... The ports are not located where they need to be; the input should be near the sidewall so it can create the cyclone and the output should be near the center to minimize the amount of chips and dust that make its way onto the extractor. I added 2, 90-degree elbows on the INSIDE of the can. Point them at each other (the elbows will actually end up being next to each other with the openings facing away from one another) and hook up the incoming hose to the port that is pointed towards the wall of the trash can and then the output to the port with the elbow that ends up almost dead center. This makes that system WAY better
@@G0F15H I have one of the 90 degree elbows on the inside of the trash can connected to the input hole, and it’s pointed along the sidewall to try to induce a cyclonic effect, but I don’t have a second 90 degree elbow attached to the output hole on the inside of the can. I’m having a hard time visualizing what you’re recommending, though. Are you talking about pointing the output elbow to where the hole is towards the center of the can (and towards the side of the input elbow)?
@@damonmoran9462 Yes exactly. To create the best effect the output should be in the very center, but the design of this trash can lid has the output port in the middle of the cyclone stream. Just take another 90 and point it in the opposite direction of the one you've already got installed. Now the air is exiting much closer to the center of the cyclone
Thank you, perfect presentation, now one other type of system all in one with a big price tag. You could compare it to all 3 you have but I belive a larger dust collector is nessary like a grizzly unit.
I've got a dust deputy for my vacume I tried to use it with a table saw a jet it didn't work . So I bought a larger 2hp grizzly with a large hepa filter. Now I need a large dust deputy.
It’s a total game changer once you can set up to a built in cyclone with a much larger motor. My ClearVue is unreal
We are making a video on our jet cyclonic separator that we have had for the last 3 years. We consider it the worst buy for our small shop we could have saved the cash and updated our dust collector it would have been better. it can not even keep up to a low-end plainer I wish this video was available before we bought ours. thank you.
Sorry to hear that
I love your channel but I don’t think this is a very fair test. Generally I’d never suck up a whole bucket of chips at the same time and doing so it really affects the efficiency of the jet design. Getting clogged like that and operating under reduced airflow Will really diminish the cyclonic action of the jet design. Also the punitive advantage of a psychotic system is to reduce the amount of dust getting to your filter, which is primarily the fine dust not shavings. I’d be interested to see a comparison from A drum sander or collecting dust from a table saw. It would be a much harder test though
Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback and you haven’t some valid points, and my methodology could have been better. That said, I don’t think it’d change the conclusion at all. Also, after the first clog I started slowly hand feeding and still had 3 more clogs I had to clear. So all numbers aside… I think the critical bit of information is knowing that any machine producing chips or strings instead of dust has a good chance of clogging the Jet, but not the Oneida.
But to your point a bit, that’s why I did mention at the end if space is critical and you’re only hooking to miter saw / table saw / sander, the Jet can be effective. It’s not a waste of money, but in my opinion it’s not comparable to the Dust Deputy because it’s a limited use product - and Jet isn’t making that obvious. Took me a good bit of looking to find them admitting that somewhere.
I don’t think it’s really all that unfair, tbh. A lot of people are adding floor sweep drops to their dust collection systems, so I think that’s a pretty relevant test. I will say that I have the Jet separator and I hate it. I wish I’d bought the Dust Deputy instead, but it wasn’t in stock near me at the time of purchasing. The Jet cyclone gets clogged super easily, even with a helical head jointer and planer. It handles the table saw and band saw fairly well, but I feel like it does a poor job of keeping the fine dust from the drum sander out of the filter. TL;DR- I wouldn’t recommend to Jet unit to anybody. It looks cool but has very subpar performance.
You came to the conclusions I expected. Better flow with less efficiency. I like the idea of the Jet, but as far as I see it there is a fundamental flaw in the design. The outlet is directly in line with the inlet. So I never expected the efficiency to be high, whereas I did expect flow to be up, so no surprises there. For me where the cyclone has the edge is that it takes advantage of gravity. The chips have to turn a minimum of 90 degrees to exit, which is obviously where you lose flow, but pick up efficiency.
The gravity issue is the key difference to the designs.. use gravity and it's really elegant. Fight gravity and you end up with all these obstructions to create spin that really just cause clogs.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo I've been wracking my brain to see if there is some way it could be made to work vertically.
Where did you get that amazing drum and lid setup?
From Oneida
I really, really liked the comparison in your video, as I too went with the DustDevil system. A lot of that decision was based on my system runs up to and across the ceiling, so therefore I had a direct vertical entry from the ceiling down compaired to the vertical having to turn a corner at the bottom to a horizontal entry. One thing I really learned on either machine was that I have too my ffeet of flexible hose with NO smooth piping at all, therefore I have resistance every single foot. The good thing is that my shop is kind of temporary at the locations it's in now, so I have a lot of new info for my next set-up. Thanks so much.!
Good demo. I went with an Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL (6" inlet/outlet) to front end my Grizzly G0944. I think Oneida missed an opportunity... they should make their cyclones clear (unless that impacts the type of plastic they can use). ;)
They’d be so cool if they did! You’re probably right about the type of plastic / expense.
I just ordered that Grizzly, how’s it working with the Oneida?
@@michaelshelnutt3534 Very good so far. I used 6" SDR 35 pipe between them and for my main line to a dual 4" spiltter (the y-splitter that came with the Grizzly). The two 4" lines then run in two directions to various tools.
I bought the same g0944 with the oneida. Good stuff!
I recently upgraded from a 2.5” shop vac system w Cyclone to a 4” 650 CFM collection set up and ditched the cyclone for optimizing suction- and after a month of use I’m lotto add another cyclone because my filter got clogged and cut my performance in half very quickly lol
Lol yeah, that separation is a huge helper
Go with more CFM harbor fright is used a lot or better yet a grizzly with the big filter, if you can go into one of the stores scratch and dent can save you a bunch of money.
I use the same kind of system to separate dust from rock crushing gear. One ends up covered in fine red dust, respirator filter required.
The Harvey Gyro does the separation in two steps ......the double cone first and then then fins. I think the two step would reduce the chance of the large chips clogging the fins.
I"m sure they sized the fins appropriately for chips as well. It's just too tight in the Jet.
I use dust deputy for all my constructions work wood, drywall, concrete etc and is a great add on to a shop vac
It's a solid product
What if you combine them in sequence, oneida to take the big chips, and whatever's left goes through the jet?
Just extra friction with no real gain. If it made it through the Oneida cyclone, it doesn’t have the mass to get separated by the Jet.
With the low, horizontal design of the JET, I could build a separator/collector that fits entirely under a workbench, table saw/router, or mitre station, which i couldnt do with a verticle cyclone
Exactly, and if you only need it hooked to dust producing machines (no shavings, chips, or stringies), it’ll be fantastic.
Good comparison, but a real world comparrison would be with machine use. I don't see the clogging due to sucking a bucket of shavings and dust to be a fair test. I doubt the Jet will ever do as well as the Dust deputy, but is a neat compact unit.
Based on reviews and a friend with one, just regular use with milling machines will clog it - as I found when I tried to get the bucket it through it by just hand feeding it slowly.
The jet unit is terrible. I have it currently and wish I'd never bought it. It clogs CONSTANTLY WHEN planing and occasionally clogs when jointing with a Helical cutter. My bag, while not filling up as quickly still needs a regular change. I am getting rid of it asap!
Great video! I'm sure Jet just loved this... Lol
We’ll see if they watch it 🤷♂️
I doubt they’d be surprised though. My pure speculation is they missed some testing and got hit by customer feedback. None of the packaging mentions limitations but their website does have a line about how it’s only for sub 2” debris.. I’m guessing that was an after the fact CYA.
I don’t know why you’d develop, produce, and market a separator that doesn’t work for milling machines.. I don’t imagine it’s not large enough market.
Putting the two systems inline with the jet in as the middle stage might be the best of both worlds :) Provided there isn't a flow loss.
You’d have to put the Oneida first so the jet doesn’t clog, but it already has excellent separation, so you’d just be reducing air flow with no gain.
You attributed the higher flow rate out of the Jet to the wrong thing. Pressure drop, and the resulting flow rate loss, more than anything else, is a function of bends in your hose. You are the first person on youtube that has mentioned the 5' straight length before entering the cyclone. Kudos to you for that. That same principle applies to bends. The bend into the Oneida is 180°. The bend into the Jet, as Joseph Booth pointed, out was 90. (Joseph didn't mention the 180 into the Oneida.) Pressure drop through even the straight corrugated hose that you are using is huge because of the rough walls inside (Reynolds Number!). Pressure drop through rough walled hose in a 90° bend is larger and in a 180° bend is even larger yet. That difference is not linear, it is exponetial, making the 180° bend more that twice as bad as the 90. To do a proper test of flow loss through the cyclones you need a 5' section of smooth pipe before the cyclone. Your velocity measurements should also be done with a fixture to hold the velocity measurement device. The way you position your hands, or if you miss the center of the circular orifice you are measuring by 0.1" causes incorrect readings. Other than the finer details, that nearly every youtuber misses, this was a good test. As you say, the deciding factor is the plugged jet.
If it had been close, I'd have bought some pipe and set up a more accurate test. But as you said I said.. ha, when one keeps clogging and the other doesn't. That's a huge deciding factor. Efficiency goes out the window then.. it's a matter of, are you ONLY filtering dust, and does size matter.
I run a hose into a trash can and another hose out the other side. And that is... perfectly adequate. I'm sure there are better systems out there, but this was a $20 diy project and I haven't had to empty the dust collector's bag since. I've emptied that trash can dozens of times, dust collector's bag is still only 1/3 full. It's so much less effort to empty the can than to empty the bag. So, I recommend a separator of some sort, whatever works for you.
Truth
Just letting you know that I have had to resubscribe to your channel now 3 times! Apparently, UA-cam doesn't want me subscribed to you!
So weird. Thanks for the heads up! It definitely does weird things
I have the Super Dust deputy on a 30 gal metal trash can and connected to a HF dust collector wit a 4" inlet hose and 5" hose to the DC I get almost 100% into the can.
Great test, but his really needs to be done with finer dust and slower speed. Machines don't produce so much dust or shavings at one go. However I wouldn't use Jet for the planer. Jet uses very similar cyclone to Harvey Gyro Air Dust Processor. Although Harvey has two stage cyclone where the big chips are separated first and those "blades" only separate fine dust so it doesn't glog.
I could've done the test better.. but talking to folks that have used the Jet, and commented here that have tried using it.. the results are exactly the same as my conclusion. It's fine if all you make is dust.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo Oh okay 👍 Then I would choose Oneida.
Have you tested the bauer from harbor freight?
I haven’t
As I observed the Jet, I think if it were mounted where the intake was in a vertical or upright position the clogging issue may be minimized if not alleviated. Being particles moving horizontally those fins are causing the blocking. I am no engineer by any stretch of the imagination it is just my opinion.
With it in a vertical orientation though the seperation wouldn't happen
That drum looks pretty heavy, even empty. Are there lighter weight options or bag options?
You can mount the cyclone on anything you want. 30 gallon drums are also common. I've seen cardboard drums too.
I’m confused by your CFM numbers at the end. You’re saying the 750 CFM dust right is making 1800 CFM at the gate?
Other than that I think it’s a great comparison and the Oneida seems to be a clear winner.
Yeah I squared the diameter instead of the radius I think… but I made the same error on all the math, so the ratios are still true.
Most hobby and DIY shops are equip with 6” joiners or 13” planers 😢whose chip and dust output are modest.
Those units also have straight knives, unlike the helical insert heads my machines have.. my machines actually make smaller chips that are easier to extract and not clog. I've had two 6" jointers and 4 different bench top planers. I'm very familiar with the kind of chips all of them make.
As much a you work your 16” planer it will not clog the jet unit.
What clogs any 4” hose is the amount of particulates like you did from the bucket, you did less with the oneida.
What is true is that the fins on the jet will jam with any large wood chip or even small slivers sucked from a saw
I would say go for the oneida uf you have large chips. If not the the jet is good and smaller than the oneida
They don't even have to be large though, even longer strings from a router will catch on the fins and build up. If it's not dust, it'll clog it
You were "Chugging " with rapidly emptying the bucket. While the Oneida handled that better I can't imagine my 12" planer Chugging like that. I saw a lot of the clog get sucked into the filter side.
I sure wish you would have restarted the Jet with a more realistic feed rate.
I have a very small shop and the layout of the Jet is appealing.
So this test while mostly well done leaves me lost.
I tried slowly hand feeding with the same result. Many reviews confirm the same problem. It clogs easy.
Thanks for responding. I think this confirms my decision. I like the size of the Jet but not at the expense of clogging.
If the Jet was designed optimally instead of in a way to get around the patent that it is trying to copy (The Harvey Dust Processor) then it might have been a winner although probably no longer competitive in price. Under Dunn channel did a nice explanation of this when he built a DIY version of the Harvey,
Ah interesting, didn’t realize that
@@YouCanMakeThisToo yeah the original is 2 stage that drops the big chunks out at the venturi and then the fines hit the vortex fins to cause the centrifugal separation with little chance to clog up like you had happen. It's pretty neat.
There is a similar, much more expensive version of the Jet that handles the chips/dust in the opposite order which makes much more sense. It is designed to filter out the large pieces first and then spin to get rid of the dust. Shame they can't make a version of that that isn't thousands of dollars.
If anyone says this is biased because it was paid for by Oneida, I’d argue that Oneida is confident in their product wanted to show the new kid on the block and all of YT what’s up.
Exactly.. and all they did was provide the product for the comparison. Some folks call that paid, but even my time wasn’t compensated and with my setup I don’t need either of these products.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo it was a great video and good information with visible results. Thank you for taking the time to make it. Keep up the great content
Side mount the Jet with the intake upright may work better.
Gravity is pretty important for the separation to happen with this one. IF it still separated with the "drop out" being horizontal, I see that just becoming the new clog spot.
They just missed the mark on this design, needs a 2.0.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo Don't get me wrong here, I too think they missed the mark. Even though the dropout, as you call it is horizontal, there are no fins there to cause an obstruction. There may be some dust collecting there but I do not see a clog. At least in my mind I don't see it. 😁
I have the jet and eventually hooked it just to my table saw but it doesn’t really separate anything. I could have put the money to better use.
Sorry to hear that, but not surprising
A better comparison would be to clean out your planer, get a scrap board. Weigh the board, run a few passes through your planer, weigh the board again to figure how much wood was removed then measure how much of that wood made it into the drum. Then do that again with the same board with the other product. I think itnwould create more of a real world situation compaored to just vacuming up very large portions of wood chips that have been climped together for who knows how long.
Thank You ! A VERY FAIR evaluation. As soon as you pulled the Jet out of the box I had concerns .... I was right. Being FAIR though, It would probably do well, like you said as a dedicated Miter saw or a sanding machine only ? Problem is, most of us use all kinds of "bigger chip" machines. I JUST purchased a smaller Dust Deputy and a HEAVY DUTY 15 gallon plastic drum to set up in my small shop. From all I've witnessed on YT I think it'll work just fine. Wish me luck !! Thanks again for a very fair and thorough video.
It appears that you aren’t the only one experiencing clogging with the Jet model. I noticed that three of the four reviews for it on Amazon downgraded the Jet for clogging issues. Granted, that’s not a large sample, but it isn’t a good start. I’m in the market for one of these, and this (along with other reviews) convinced me to spend my money on the Oneida. Besides, the Jet is twenty bucks more….
I chatted with a buddy while I was filming this that has used it for a while and he mentioned the same problem.... fine for his table saw. But his small planer or dull cnc bits would clog it up fast.
I don't think pointing out the small profile of the Jet is a bone that it deserves to be thrown. Cheap bucket-top cyclones are even shorter than that and would outperform it easily, or a better-performing Thein baffle could be built with just as low of a profile. I have an absolute hack job of a Thein I cobbled together from a plastic bucket that works better than the Jet did there, and it handles planer chips just fine.
It *would* be nice to see these tested against each other on just fines to see if the Jet might be well-suited to a niche scenario of shops that don't have planers or jointers.
Although the clogging was a disappointment, dumping such a concentrated amount of "dust" is not a real world situation.
Even super slowly hand feeding the tiniest bits, it clogged. Called a friend who's had one for a while, his clogs often. Checked reviews, biggest complaint is clogging.
The thing that seems to have gotten overlooked about the horizontal separator is that the cone should be ahead of the fins, as on this model: m.ua-cam.com/video/FOP6KiUSJSU/v-deo.html&pp=ygUdaG9yaXpvbnRhbCBjeWNsb25pYyBzZXBhcmF0b3I%3D
As shown, it's supposed to be a two-stage system, with the cone getting rid of the larger pieces of debris in the first stage. That way, the vanes would only have to deal with the really light stuff that's unlinely to cause a clog.
Would have liked to see a comparison with sawdust as well. Table saw, sander, etc.
Your results with the Jet make me question my crush on the Harvey G-700. I figured that would clog with my straight blade planer and jointer, but I also figured helical upgrades would solve it. 🙁
Clog at 12:18 occurs because you fed too much too fast. I don't have a machine that can produce that much waste that fast. Also, when you were clearing the clog I saw chips going into the filter. Likely because the cyclone was blocked from fully forming. Your test is unfair.
BTW: I have the dust deputy myself. One critical factor in getting it to work at its best is to maintain constant air flow. If you reduce airflow by using too small a collection hose you lose separation. I also have a smaller cyclonic separator (not DD) I use for bench work. Sanding with insufficient air flow causes the filter to clog with fine dust. But when I keep the air flow up by introducing an extra inlet vent it separates much better.
The clear cyclone jet looks cool, but it is going to be subject to the same issues with air flow. So if you're sucking shavings from the bottom of your bucket and you are choking the intake by placing it too close to the bottom - again - you're going to get dust past the separator. Any separator. That's physics.
Also; at 15:30 your dust bag is nearly full. That's when your filter starts to gather even more dust, further reducing air flow. Personally I think your test does not do justice.
The Jet design seems just inferior. Usually the cyclone cone is vertical, having gravity as an aid. ( i know the cyclonic aspect is with the fins but..) it’s horizontal and the opening is small with too much “stuff” in the way leading to clogs. Those are just casual observations;. Anyway it was a good video.
I havent seen the whole video, yet! But im up to where the Jet got clogged. That is a sysyemic issue. Everyone that has one complains about this. So not any good for a planer or jointer. I would guess that a table saw should be good though.
Exactly, or a drum sander or miter saw.. stuff like that. Anything making more dust than shavings or chips.
Why does your dust look like mulch
It's chips from my milling machines.
I'm not very happy with the parameters of the test, and I am happy to share why:
The 'Dust' seemed very 'uncommon'...When I run my DC, I mostly see dust, particles that are a few mm at most in size, every once in a while I see some bigger chips or shavings, but they often come from cleaning up the floor, not running any of my machines. I do see your hand-tools, and I suppose that type of dust is what you normally want to clean up, but I am not sure that is the 'common' use case for dust collectors, which is certainly depending on the needs of the individual.
On top of that, in a 2 stage system, I generally want to know how much dust is staying out of my last stage (the filter/bag), which I expect should just be small particles, not the large pieces. Additionally, there is a huge difference for any system in taking on a huge amount of chips at once vs collecting while operating something (cleanup vs dust collection). In your test, sucking up a 5g bucket of those shavings doesnt seem like a normal operation in any workshop, and I dont think either of the stages are designed with that type of use in mind, so the numbers you've shown feel very 'skewed' because of miss-use. I am pretty sure JET calls out on their website that the cyclone can clog and is not designed for large bulk pickup.
I'd love to see the test redone in a more realistic setup, even with the large chips, and that could just mean taking the 5g bucket, and dumping it like a bucket of water over the floor and then picking up the pieces. I'd prefer seeing it with more dust, and less shavings, but if you generally have just large shavings in your shop, then I suppose that is your test.
Those are all very fair comments.
That said, check out reviews, changes to their website, and talk to folks that use them in their shop.. and the results are the same with what I found. It's alright for just fine dust, anything more and it'll clog. To the point that if you've got it connect to a CNC and your bit starts dulling and makes strings.. it'll clog.
The test was the same for both the Dust Deputy and the Jet Cyclonic Separator. The Dust Deputy DID NOT clog. The Jet Cyclonic Separator DID clog. The reason the Jet model clogged, and the Oneida model didn't was because of differences in their respective designs, not because the chips were too big.
The promotional materials for the JET Cyclonic Separator do not claim any sort of limitations for particle/debris size or type of woodworking machinery, in fact, quite the opposite. Here is the advertisement from the Jet website:
"The JET Cyclonic Separator maximizes dust collection efficiency by maintaining the air flow of a dust collection system by deflecting chips and large debris inline freeing up dust collection filters to trap fine particles."
Bottom line: The test was conducted fairly, and the limitations of both dust collectors were explained very well.
If you want a dust collection system that covers more bases without clogging, the Dust Deputy is what you should get. If you only want a dust collection system that covers some of the bases, e.g., a table saw, bandsaw or chop saw, then the JET Cyclonic Separator might be enough.
Uhm I might be wrong but Isn't the whole point of these collectors/separators is to keep airflow and volume at a constant both short term, not having to replace the main filter so often, and long term, allowing ur motor to not overheat so easily... Why not just use the design of a bong. Add a percolator if u want it to look fancy.
The equipment clogged because you had the hose bent 90 degrees and the clog started in the flex hose the real question is did you do it on purpose.
If you know me, that's not a question.
And it clogged because it can't handle chips. The website has even been updated to say it's only to be used on any debris smaller than 2". Check the reviews and lots of complaints about clogging. Even called a buddy that's been using one for a while during the filming process and he confirmed that's fine until his bits get dull and make strings... then it clogs.
Yes there was a 90° bend at the entrance of the Jet, but there was a 180° bend at the entrance to the Dust Deputy. Further, he didn't say what the hose configuration on his buddy's setup was, but it clogged too. I have a smaller dust deputy used with a shop vac. It is not clear like the jet, but it is white and translucent. You can see the path the debris takes. It goes around the periphery of the cyclone 3 or 4 times ( I'll check the next time I get in the shop) where the Jet seems to go around less than once., giving it more chance to slow down and drop out. I agree that Oneida made a mistake using the opaque material. It should be at least translucent like the smaller dust deputy.
So I see that Walter White set up a wood shop after leaving Breaking Bad. Sweet!
Betting on jet.
Interesting, keep on watching!
The one thing you didn't do was empty the intake hose as some could still be trapped in the ribs
The Jet is fighting the laws of gravity, it’s surprising it did as well as it did.
I think you ran the air through it the wrong way ... first slow the air flow .. drops big chunks, then accelerate the airflow through the narrow passage and spin it up to use centrifical force to throw the fine dust to the sides of the exhaust pipe ... presumably you would take that spinning dust river on the exhaust pipe surface and funnel it into a collector .. I could be wrong, but ... plumb it the other way and see what happens?
Not a fair test. When the system was overloaded as in the pickup plunged into a pile of shavings it seemed to let a lot of stuff past the device. No machine is going to spit out that volume of shavings it will be a constant supply. Needs to be hooked up to machine and weigh boards before planing and after and measure the loss that way.
Large chips doesn't seem like a very useful test.
If your shop doesn't make them, then no. But I've always processed rough lumber in my shop though. And when I had smaller machines, they had straight knives instead of helical heads and made bigger shavings.
But all that's covered in the conclusion at the end. If you're just dealing with dust, the jet will be fine. Anything else, it'll clog. That's confirmed by my buddy that uses one, many comments by users, reviewers over the internet..
My test procedure wasn't perfect. But a perfect test would still reach the same conclusion, so my test was good enough.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo That's a fair point. Still seems to me the biggest issue with the Jet is just that it's over-engineered and overpriced. I would've liked to know how if fared in comparison to alternatives for fine particulate though, as pre-separation of large chips is pretty trivial.
Bogus. Hook them up to a machine, or machines, and suck up what comes when cutting. No one sucks up big chips out of a bucket.
The problem is then there’s no way to measure separation efficacy because the amount of chips produced is unknown.. also, my machines are dual port and two big for the setup.
Key takeaway is one will handle saw dust but clog with chips (they eventually added it to the website), and one will handle anything. Also, if you go check reviews and talk to folks that have them.. the clogging issue with the jet is well established.
And after the second clog I stopped and very slowly hand fed chips into it and it still clogged.
That was all discussed after you clicked away though probably.
Errr… and how practical is it to empty that drum?
Once you get to real dust collectors they pretty much all use drums.
So jet, no thanks! My dust is gonna be bigger than yours so it’d clog faster and more often. You did a controlled test and it clogged instantly!
Even fed it by hand real slow and it still clogged.
Mmm… put a scale under the drum!
And measure before and after!
More accurate and easier!
Pretty much a flawed comparison. After the Jet clogged up, it should have been stopped and started over. Taking a few extra minutes to do that would have eliminated some of the doubt that was created.
Might’ve forgot, but pretty sure at the end of the video I explain that I did that 3 times. Just didn’t want to keep showing it clogging.
Go check reviews, get the same feedback. Check the Jet website, they even have a disclaimer about debris size now.
I dont believe he didnt manipulate this outcome.
I didn’t. Check reviews. Get both and rest them with chips. One can handle them and one can’t.
Sorry. Once I saw a clog that quickly. That was enough for me. I honestly don’t think you needed even continue with the test.