If You Don't Have Anything Nice To Say, Don't Say Anything At All
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2019
- The Argument: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
This is a general statement, so there are multiple ways of interpreting it. Hence, it can represent multiple different arguments; a literal version - a figurative version - and a contextual version.
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This was the comeback line for all teachers in primary school.
The Blockbuster Network, and parents when you insult your sister.
I can finally go back to elementary and DESTROY my teachers with FACTS and LOGIC
Bob Bob That too.
Robert Rich YES!
Yea, now I can say, "I heard better lines from other teachers, but you will do."
"Chicks, Man"
- Counter Arguments, 2019
What?
S nim 0:42
I know, right?
Quoted as an example of a pretty useless generalization.
I would put a like.. but you have 666 likes on that comment. So I am morally obligated to not put a like on your comment
Me: It is what it is.
CA: Or is it?
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
defvent *cue Vsauce music*
@@anthonylipira9526 But does?
It do be that way
Or does it?
I hope he does more videos where he breaks down arguments of abstract statements like this that seem rather forceful until you analyze it in a deeper context. This was an interesting watch.
Next one will be why "Facts don't care about your feelings" doesn't work in a therapy setting.
ua-cam.com/video/HI3L1ap3Ti8/v-deo.html
Man
"If she doesn't eat with me, then she doesn't eat at all!" - The Beast
*Belle starves*
The End
"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."
_Lookout on the Titanic, upon seeing an iceburg:_
"..."
My friend: What do you think of my drawings?
Me: My mum taught me; if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...
"I'd say your drawing sucks, but mum wouldn't be proud."
@@KnekoKcat "If you'll just direct your attention to these rude gestures I'm making, then I should be able to communicate what I'm not supposed to say."
"It's complete garbage, but I still like you"
Jesus man I'd rather you just roast my art it'll be less painful
"What is the story behind those drawings?" is what I would say after a long an uncomfortable pause...
Honestly, I only ever heard this argument as a child as it related to getting along with other children. I haven’t really heard this argument as an adult. I could only imagine making this argument to a child in a similar manner, or to a petulant adult who lacked either the social understanding or social grace necessary to randomly insult strangers - nobody I know fits that description.
If someone seriously said it to me as an adult, I'd question how deeply disturbing their mind was and probably retort with an insult. A supervisor once said "to assume makes an ass of u and me" when I listed my assumptions for a project where the client refused to give us more information. I just stared at them dumbfounded before going over, once more, why these assumptions were necessary and the foundation for my choices.
Edyl Bazor LoL, I know right? Out of curiosity why would your client refuse to provide more information? I was thinking the obvious choice to avoid assumptions would be to call your client to iron out the details, but your client refusing to provide more information about what they wanted doesn’t make much sense to me. I know there are Clients From Hell though so I was curious to hear your story.
@@GiantRogueWave I worked in telecom. Most likely, the client didn't even know what they had and refused to admit it cause it'd prove they're violating their contract with the landowner. I had photos from the week before that showed new equipment in place, and when I asked for an updated contract, they refused. When I asked which equipment they wanted us to list, they refused to answer. I got out of the industry because how often those types of interactions were.
Even had one guy refuse to give me the model # of a generator they wanted installed, then turn around and complain it wasn't the right one. Like, how am I supposed to help you? After two phone calls and six emails, I picked the standard generator used for the region on all their other projects, and apparently it was wrong.
Edyl Bazor that seems like a large leap in judgement based on a single phrase.
@@barmacidic2257 I do read too much into it, but the connotations are that an adult needs to be spoken down to and taught, as you would a child, basic human interactions with a phrase lacking in substance. I'd prefer if they just told me to stop talking, that at least shows they know I'm competent enough to self-assess after a faux pas. With phrases like this, the user has to lack the mutual respect you should have when speaking with other people and shines a light on their perceived moral superiority. Of course, if it can be said in a manner where the speaker conveys the phrase is pretty dumb but has a grain of truth, in which case I wouldn't really care. Like, if even they wince at how childish their own advice is, then at least it shows they don't infantilize you and just couldn't think of a better way to say it.
I also had an asshole of an aunt that'd just quote the bible instead of discussing anything, so I'm sure there's some internalized spite there.
I never thought "nice" in the quote only meant statements that will please someone, but rather statements that aren't made maliciously. Mentioning any information that you think is useful is inherently being nice, regardless of how happy the other party is to hear it, but if you already know that the purpose of mentioning it is to hurt someone or waste their time, then that's not a nice thing to *do* and shouldn't be expressed.
Maybe this should have been a point in the video.
No, "Mentioning any information that you think is useful" isn't "being nice, regardless of how happy the other party is to hear it".
It's being kind.
Just remove the word nice from the argument and you've got another video right there lmao
Nice!
Counter Arguments: "Is it actually necessary to check yourself to avoid wrecking yourself?"
Yes it is, because bigdees and bullets are bad for your health.
I've always interpreted this phrase as;
"When you have nothing nice to say, should you really bother saying it at all?" It's more accurate this way as it describes the real issue that is being diplomatic and useful, but most of all picking your battles. When all you want to say is that someone can choke on a pineapple, you're not being helpful, you're starting a conflict, and you're not being diplomatic, but most of all; you're wasting your time.
@Dusty Carrier This, yes. If I'm as generous as I possibly can be to that platitude, this is the interpretation that makes it the least worthless. A sort of... "pearls before swine" situation.
_If the people who you're thinking of saying something to are too stupid or wrong-headed to give a shit, why bother wasting your time?_ Your example isn't great, but I suppose it fits as well.
Thing is, even being that generous, sometimes you *_need_* to say unpleasant things, if only to get the facts out there. The swine might not know what to do with the pearls, but casting them at the lot of the dumb beasts might still result in a surprising result. That's the basis of every atheist channel here on youtube: the people you're talking to are never going to give a shit about what you have to say... but maybe it'll stick and bother them and actually change something in some of them eventually.
So even being generous, it's a worthless platitude the overwhelming majority of the time.
Expressing yourself isn't necessarily a waste of time.
@@GoeTeeks Not necessarily,no. But not every argument it starts is helpful or useful; some arguments are a waste of time.
GoeTeeks the problem here is not expressing yourself, it’s *_how_* you do it.
You've made an excellent point here. I'll be honest, though: the thought of telling someone to go choke on a pineapple has me literally snorting.
I always thought of this frase as:
"Remember, Silence is always an option" and
"Think before speak, they could be guiding you without you knowing"
There is a reason "Maintain Silence" is a right, and in "Tale" kinda game "..." Is an option, bust almost no one chose it, be cautious.
@Daniel von Strangle of course not lol, nothing affects anything in their games
Maybe not in Tale game, cant remember the name, but if memory isn't playing tricks on me there are a couple of times were "..." Is the correct answer, one was for a simple conversation, and is the only option that dont get the other character mad about you, the other time was by buying time in a precarious situation so another character can appear, and the final I vaguely remember was for a very specific quest or secret ending, saying nothing grants you the respect of an NPC and make them do something very important in the background later.
Made me think of Until Dawn “Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do.” Great way of thinking about it!
I'm used to hearing these informative videos tied up with a little "So here's the right answer" at the end. I didn't think it would be so...refreshing to find a channel that doesn't do that.
In my personal experience, I usually hear "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" from individuals/groups who have some sort of authority over other individuals/groups as a way of discouraging dissent from the individuals/groups with less authority. There are exceptions, but that seems to be the rule as I have experienced it, and it is partly for this reason among a great many others that I have developed some anarchist philosophical leanings.
I call the diplomacy part speaking to your audience. Know who you’re talking to and how they want to hear things. Difficult maybe, but making no effort means you scream at them and they label you a hater to be ignored. Be firm if you can figure out that’s what they respond well to, be gentle if they’re scared or something. This is so important when trying to make a point to somebody, trying to get them to change their mind or at least see a new perspective.
so... the way i have heard the argument lately and it seems a bit more specific is : If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it. then it just does what it was intended to do and that is targeting insults
When I grew up, it was, "If you don't have anything clever to say, don't say anything at all." My family wasn't nice.
That's actually pretty good advice.
Oof sorry I finally understand what they meant
It's advice for children, who tend to lack nuance and sensitivity.
It's also a means of controlling the dialogue, where someone cannot handle negativity in a mature way.
"Delusions of adequacy" is brilliant, and I will be using it as soon as possible.
"If you dont want to hear what I have to say, dont listen to me at all"
"If you can't say anything good about someone, come sit here by me." -Alice Roosevelt Longfellow
I grew up with this phrase being used ONLY when teachers/society tried to stop bullies from saying "mean" things to others...
It is only now in later years that the phrase has been used to dissuade people from saying ANYTHING negative about ANYTHING for ANY reason...
“He had delusions of adequacy”
I want this on my grave
This was a very good one. I've had doubts about this saying for a while and you interpreted it in a refreshing and original way.
This is double-edged sword, capable of censoring absolutely anybody.
I always enjoy these videos. Keep it up💯💯
Before I even clicked on the video, I was thinking to myself "Or, at least, say it in a nice way", so thank you for bringing that up.
"Most generalizations are pretty useless"
I can smell the superiority complex from a mile away. But your videos are great!
Damn, that one cuts deep.
Anything at all
“He’s to dangerous to be left alive!”
I really enjoy that kind of quick simple format. Makes for a nice chaser to your more meaty pieces.
"You are free to say anything but only if I can agree with"
This quote is why I didn’t talk to my parents as a kid. Considering how I am now, this is a bad strategy.
example; I usually don't like your videos, but I think this one spoke to me.
Super relevant right now. Thank you!
I've always heard this as a direct discouragement of bullying, especially to children. I always took it to mean, "Whatever you think, consider other people's feelings before you talk."
This is one of your best videos!
I have only ever encountered this sentence in either of two scenarios:
1. Somebody was dismissing criticism.
2. Somebody was trying to shut up somebody.
In both scenarios the saying is consistently interpreted literally and used in a context that turns it into an unjustified demand rather than a valid argument. And that's why I have a pretty low opinion of this and similar "arguments" that require a specific context but are usually memorised without it. They form bad habits more often than they are applied in a helpful way, and with that cause net harm.
Interesting. I've only heard this saying being said by parents/teachers of young kids. I've never heard someone actually using this on any child older than a teen. We have had very different experiences of the same saying. I'm less inclined to dislike it because from my pov it gets the point across to children. Thank you for sharing, and I agree that the argument would be very annoying to hear from adults to other adults.
@@phelanglick794 I think you brought up a really interesting point there, because that's pretty much the exact impression that you get as a listener/reader when you see an adult use this phrase on other adults: they are talking to that other person like one might talk to a child.
Often I find people who would do that incredibly frustrating to talk to since they rarely have more in-depth arguments for what you should or shouldn't do and why.
@@shizanketsuga8696 Thank you! I wasnt expecting a reply on the internet to be so nice. Have a nice day.
@@phelanglick794 You too, mate. Cheers!
I really enjoy the breakdown of such simple by yet such meaningful phrases
I made a post about this in a Facebook philosophy group earlier today :)
I love the artistic usage of expletives and insults to convey emotions.
Excellently explained, objective, and to the point, this is the kind of content I like
I love these bite-sized videos of abstract statements/arguments
You put the art of not sucking at arguments in a beautiful. Im really glad you've found an interesting way for me to communicate this idea for others.
This was very insightful. I would usually follow that statement literally but found that being quiet, especially in a social setting, makes people uncomfortable. Thus how I found this video.
I honestly hated this saying before, but now it makes a lot more sense
pretty charitable interpretation if you ask me. "Don't say anything at all" = silence. It is nowhere close to saying "have tact"
@@GuyUWishUWere If you interpret the saying literally you are correct, but in that last segment he said he was talking figuratively
@@Bruh-ix2jl what does that mean? The definition I just looked up for figuratively says "used to indicate a departure from a literal use of words; metaphorically."
So 1. It is NOT literal
2. It is a metaphor which is a comparison not using "like" or "as".
This isn't very helpful to me. I don't see a comparison anywhere, if you wanted to say what the "figurative" interpretation was you'd be better off literally saying that.
It's either needlessly misleading or exactly what it looks like at first glace.
come to think of it there was a pretty good comment on this video pointing out that the phrase could be reread as "if you don't have at least one nice thing to say, be silent." I had to look it up because I thought this was a literal if unusual interpretation but no, literal means "usual" , allegorical means "unusual" or "hidden". This is not a metaphor.
This is what I usually say to people who go out of their way to say something mean or insult someone not for the benefit of that person (not constructive criticism) but meaning to hurt them.
Bring a friend, if you have one. I'll attend the second show, if there is one. xD
Man I love how you can make something as simple as a little saying that always annoyed me and into a thoughtful learning experience. I wish i could think of and say stuff like that.
Great as always man.
I may not always agree with your videos/arguments, but this was a really convincing argument
I appreciate your last interpretation of the phrase in particular because it highlights the actual language used-- the saying is not "if everything single thing you have to say isn't nice, then don't say anything at all."
How about “BeCaUsE i SaId So”
Keep up the good work, big fan
I thought this phrase is only said by parents to children who haven't yet learnt the social mores around being rude
Another nicety is to ask why someone did or said something distasteful. Exclaiming "what's wrong with you?!" wouldn't work, but "is something wrong?", "are you okay?", and "what gave you that idea?" are easier to swallow.
“His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork.” OMFG YES IM SAVING THAT FOR WHEN I HAVE AN ARGUMENT
A lot of people need to this this word to heart and keep it in for it can cause a lot of problems to any one any thing it has to deal with it
Ooh, a short, more traditional Counter Arguements video. A pleasant surprise.
If i am not mistaken, this argument was first made by a german philosopher, that i dont remember the name. He was studying philology and argued that people often do not know what they are really saying, because language is imperfect, so he concluded that statement: if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.
This is a really great video. I'm glad to have had my opinion on this topic changed to be more realistic.
Such short videos, such good content.
my father used to tell me that all the time when i was a kid without ever broadening it or explaining it more in detail, so thanks for that
Nice Vince Gueraldi music in the background, so chill.
This is a very interesting way of deconstructing this sentence. I think the figurative version is definitely one to live by, just as a pragmatic rule.
However, I've only ever heard this sentence uttered in the literal sense by people who are averse to any criticism, regardless of how respectfully or nicely it is put. Some people are just wired to (or are conditioned to) believe that the act of criticism is offensive, especially when it comes to certain topics.
this episode was fantastic.
I’ve had people say this to me despite the fact that their social media profiles are full of rants - political and just generally - and complaints about others. Even though they’ve previously liked posts of mine that are critical of others. It genuinely just seems like a way to say “don’t criticise me”.
"His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork." - Mae West
Ouch! XD
This was literally my primary school motto? PLEASE tear it down
It can certainly make sense when used figuratively or contextually, but I'd argue it is usually not. When used literally, it's worthless. Figuratively is a good rule for life, and contextually is a great tactic for persuasion.
I think I’ve always thought of this the ways you said it. This can be considered also as if you can’t say anything good of it, it’s better not to lie.
Nobody asked you to make this video, Counter Arguments.
... but now that you've made it, we're glad it exists.
thank you, for making this channel an actual counter arguments channel and not just counter current politics
Anytime I see a new Counter Argument I get hype
I prefer to never say anything, unless it's something nonsensical and confusing.
I respect a person for speaking their mind on any topic, having a point of view & not being scared to remain silent. Healthy debate is actually a good thing. Honesty. All in the delivery..I don't trust people who are more interested in niceties than God forbid, disagreeing on something. Unwavering vs. Wishy washy. No brainer..just don't be a d-bag. It's okay to be assertive not rude..
I always considered the line to mean a positive meaning, as in helpful criticism is allowed because it is helping the person.
My advice is: "Pick your fights!"
I love this way of finding game theory in all of this
That play ticket conversation was pretty great. Never heard that one.
Have never though of that without being literally, thanks
I just found this channel, yow 😮 what am i missing!
I am very positively surprised that it could be used this way. I've however came across many people who happily use it literally in hopes to absolving themselves of any and all criticism... And I've promptly criticized them in a very harsh manner. Not the proudest moments of my life tbh
stop changing me with every video, they are too good
When counter agruements changes my mind.
Can a person be so completely without merit that there is nothing nice to say? Damn. If such a person exists I genuinely feel sorry for them.
I've been told "if you don't have anything **good** to say..."
Words to live by.
I hear this said by people who are ranting about their own opinions and panic when there's a hole in their echo chamber.
if there is a saying that's been abused more, i can't think of it.
How did I not see this
"Son, if you can't say something nice, say something clever but devastating."
It should be read generally, not universally. It is true to the extend that we acknowledge it has exceptions.
In my experience, it is a line mostly used in kindergartens to stop people in casual group or one on one interactions insulting each other and is only applicable in these or similar situations. It just is something that is easy to remember and teaches some basic morality to young children especially. Not something to be used generally.
I always thought of "nice" to be another form of sycophancy. The only time people are "nice" is when they're trying to butter you up for something. I find directly rude people to be more honest and I generally distrust "nice" people because I'm waiting for their scam to be revealed.
Honestly, this completely changed what I thought this phrase meant.
I always took it as a call for tactfulness
This is said in school whenever any student criticizes anything ever
I generally dislike this argument, but coming from you I'm willing to consider it.
So I fully agree that there is a not as generalized core to that statement, that has value, but I do not like the one picked here.
Adding something nice can be reasonable, but it often is not really the core of the issue, that I would say is this:
Considering the effects of statements is important and if a statement is expected to have a negative impact there must be a sufficient good gained from stating it to make it not a morally wrong act.
Sometimes it is really important to have something said, and hurting someones feelings is worth it.
In that case one can consider how best to put it to min max this for example by adding something nice.
Other times though nothing is gained from stating something while it hurts people.
And in the worst of times someone seems to want to hurt people and while hiding behind the cover of just making points.