Holly Barrier does complexity right: here's why
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- I feel like Holly Barrier is probably the only Christmas plant actually worth talking about, like, what do I have to say with Sapfling? "Oh stallers are good woooo". Its SO much worse with Missile Toe though, like, "oh this plant that fires once every 20s getting chill totally changes how you use it", just doesn't hold up to literally anything ever. I swear to god.
Discord: / discord
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
1:54 - What is Holly Barrier
6:52 - Decking the Halls with Holly
11:10 - Mechanical Complexity
15:20 - Conclusions
Footage is from:
Plants VS Zombies 2
Bee Swarm Simulator
Terraria
Music used (in order of appearance):
Dave's Theme from PVZ2 (Unnamed)
Frostbite Caves Wave 1 from PVZ1
A Home For Flowers (Tuilip) from OMORI
Cerebrawl from PVZ1
Neon Mixtape Tour Choose Your Seeds from PVZ2
Outro is an original track. - Ігри
The fact that reviving a leaf sets the damage to 1 more than the 64-bit integer limit is actually really funny.
Wait, the game is 128 bit. Eh probaly puts the extra value in the positive not negative, wait is that possible?
Probably some shenanigans with signed and unsigned integers being used together.
To clarify your comment, it's 1 more than the _signed_ 64-bit integer limit.
I spent a bit of time trying to find a vaguely plausible path from (small positive number) to 0x8000'0000'0000'0000, but failed. TCXD11 is likely correct about signed/unsigned conversions being involved, but I cannot figure out how they could lead to this.
i like your words, funny man
@@delta3244
I did some thinking about this, and I do have a a theory on how it might have come about:
First, the damage on the barrier was subtracted to zero, using signed integers. Assuming sign-magnitude is being used here (a.k.a. the leftmost bit being the sign, with 0 for positive and 1 for negative), subtracting something to zero can sometimes result in a negative zero, which would be represented in binary here with a 1 (for the negative sign) and 63 zeroes behind it.
Second, when the barrier was revived, the damage was both 1) not changed, and 2) assumed to be an unsigned integer (because why would damage ever be negative?), causing the negative zero to be reinterpreted as a positive number. As stated before, the number was 1 with 63 zeroes behind it in binary, which is basically 2^63 as an unsigned integer, so... exactly the number we observe here.
As you can probably tell, regardless of whether this theory is correct, a number of mistakes had to be made to get this kind of result.
A thing you forgot: you can refill the berries by planting another berry on top of it. This is very useful in case you need three more shots, but all plants have a lot of hp left, you don’t have space to place it and you don’t have plant food.
If that’s wrong, blame KoalaOM for it, he mentioned it his last video.
Less so forgot, more so isn't relevant. Heck, even in those cases, you can shovel then place it down to get a free 75-ish sun. its really not too important unless your doing a don't lose X plants level, at which point why the heck are you using holly.
@@Creeps20 maybe because big dum dum damage barrier
(Really if you can afford those 5 losses and play a bit with the game shenanigans you can win the game easily
@@Creeps20 Why would sacrifice him after all its done for you :(
holly barrier is s tier
additionally if a healing aloe heals holly barrier they also get berries back but aloe only heals holly when its damaged so thats a thing
I think it's also worth noting the amount of UI effort on the plant. You can see how many shots it has remaining, see how much health it has remaining, see that the Plant Food leaves are visibly stronger and better than the regular ones. At a glance you can see what the state of the field is, and that's incredibly well done.
Poor Tomb Tangler gets none of this - no visible slow effect, no health indicator, no idea of when it's going to instakill next. It's one of the things that makes Tomb Tangler even worse than it already is
That's really true and worth pointing out! I've never used Holly Barrier myself (premium go brr), but even before i heard the in-depth explanation of how Holly works in this video, i could already intuit most of Holly's mechanics just from footage of Holly being used. _The exception being the bugs and _*_that thing_*_ that you can do with blover_
Seeing blover kill zombies in unintended scenarios is very amusing to me.
what's that? a strong leaf plant pushed you back with strong winds?
that means bye bye for you!
Mid air?
NUH UH
Zombie: Gets knocked back
Blover: *YOU ARE GOING TO BRAZIL*
@@spamton_g_spamtom474mid water?
NOAH UGH
You can also use Aloe to make Holly Barrier regain ammo just like it does with Chard Guard, it can also gain ammo from Reinforce-mint because it makes Holly Barrier use its plant food
Plus Reinforce-mint cleans up the board when there’s enough Holly Barriers
Reinforce mint is IMO the most overpowered plant in the whole game.
pair it with blover and you basically have doom shroom in a box
And the walnut aid trophy thingy
Btw I Have Holly Barrier And Reinforce-mint And If You Also Do,Place THREE Lanes Of Holly Barrier,Then Place Reinforce-mint You Will DESTROY The Zombies.
This is one of the few premium plants (nowadays) which doesn't act as a replacement to a pre-existing plant. The idea is creative, sure but if a plant is not balanced (too strong or too weak), I still would hate the plant after all.
*Edit:* I spoke too soon. I have never played the plant and I didn't realize that the plant also does damage equal to Endurian. lol
Another one can be arguably sap-fling
@@Prototype09 Sap-fling is a gemium, though
No, Sapfling is bought with 100 gems during Christmas event.
@@thatonecabridog id consider it as premium still just a counterpart of it
@@peckypork Nope, 100 gems
Terraria's Christmas event isn't only triggerable by Christmas, you can also defeat the 15th wave of the Frost Moon to trigger Christmas for 1 in-game day.
No way, bee swarm reference? I'm so hyped for beesmas this year.
I actually haven't played the game since last Beesmas, I unlocked that exclusive Blue Club thing and sort of fell off the game. I might go back and visit my bees later today.
yeaahh i have test realm theres alot of cool stuff the spotlight being robo bear and his challenges
digital bee is also coming in part 1 but you need a diamond cog amulet which is stupidly hard
Bee game moment
I LOVE ROBLOS RAFGH
14:50 This is actually a solid, video-worthy idea. What should the defensive plants do when given plant food and why? Maybe, create a discussion/poll first and then proceed onto the video. I think that people would like to watch this.
Well, he also praised Infi-nuts plant food.
Regarding Intensive Carrot, I always felt like its gimmick isn't to revive plants that have a benefit staying alive, but have a benefit being eaten again.
Hot Date, for example, is basically poor man's imitated (weaker) jalapeno
Sun Bean also stacks really well with it
Hypno-Shroom could probably be better though
Others that come to mind are Electrici-tea/Explode-O-Nut (which I don't have) and Explode-O-Vine (but that recharge is fast enough as is)
Still has to be eaten though
Yeah, with jalapeño you can basically have 3 of such plants with the imitated plant + carrot
@@Redokev i don't think that would work because the plant needs to be *eaten* for you to revive it, good luck with getting a zombie to eat jalapeño.
Yeah Sweet Potato suffers from a rather lengthy recharge time so Intensive Carrot will basically act as an Imitater without paying 5 bucks.
I don't think it synnergises well with sun bean in vanilla due to it costing ONE HUNDRED SUN, twice the amount of a sun bean. It synnergises extremely well in mods where intensive carrot actually has a logical sun cost
@@KPoWasTaken Sun Bean at level 1 returns 300 sun, so it is still worth it
Though yeah there definitely is some issue with getting 150 sun to be able to get out 2 Sun Beans (+ an attacking plant) in the early game
Fun fact the damage that's dealt from a revived hollybarrier leaf is exactly 2^63, which is weird since usually these kinds of errors involve integer limits which take the form of 2^x - 1, so I think it's somehow taking 1 and bit-shifting it left 62 times which is just bizarre. I'm not sure what could be causing this and my understanding of how the game handles math may be wrong.
I assume there's some shenanigans with signed and unsigned integers at play here.
Signed integers generally have one less bit than the full 2-power scale that number limits usually have (note that 64 is also a power of 2, and 63 is one less than that), and the left-most bit is instead used to denote the sign, with positive (0) or negative (1).
I *suspect* that somehow, the integer was subtracted as a signed integer, which rolled it back to negative 0 (a weird concept, I know, but it technically exists in some versions of signed integers), which would be represented with 1 with 63 zeroes at the back, and then somehow got used as if it was an unsigned integer instead. I'm not *certain* this is what happened, but it would be one potential explanation?
Either way, you'd have to mess up a lot of things to get this kind of result, but the result is funny.
@@tcxd1164 Huh yeah I just looked into signed integer representation and that seems to be it, since -0 would be a leading 1 with all zeroes afterwards which in unsigned integer notation would be 2^63. Thanks for the insight, that's pretty funny!
W-what are you talking about...
I think they might have patched and or fixed whatever was wrong, possibly inadvertently. I tried it with my own Holly barriers and they do zero damage, don't even make zombies flash white with damage like normal
@@tcxd1164 the other version of signed intergers is where the left most bit is equal to -2^(num_of_bits-1)
for the example of a 64 bit integer, that would mean the left most bit would be worth -2^63
and how you would get the value -1 in this system, is by having all the bits set to on
(with all positive bits set you have the the range of values 0 to 2^63-1 (which is equal to 2^63 positive values) and -2^63 to -1 which adds up to 2^64 unique values)
this comment doesn't make to much sense but I'll post it anyways
I’m grateful you covered Holly Barrier.
Its incredible how wonderful of an allrounder Holly is, being a Jack of all trades whilst being made balanced by making sure it’s a master of none.
It has been a plant that I knew I needed to get the year it was released and oh my god its one of the few plants to this day that still holds up in terms of both entertainment and balance somehow. Its unprecedented to me.
For the description,you could honestly compile Sap-fling with other conventional stallers into one big video of them. This includes iceberg,Stallia,stunion,etc.
This may or may not be an excuse for you to talk about those three above because they’re honestly my 3 favorite plants to consistently use.
Hell,sometimes I even bring all 3. Yes,it’s stupid. But it also works for some reasons lmao
Literally me
I use all 3 as well. I heavy stall the early game so that I can spam coconut cannons in the late game.
I also have a high score of 53(so far) in pyramid of doom thanks to those 3.
if they can't get to you, you win
WE DIDNT GET OUR YEARLY BEESMAS UPDATE THIS CHRISTMAS SUCKED🗣🗣
I love using Holly Barrier's plant food and filling the entire lawn with these stalling leaves. It also refills its shots for even more. I've won many levels using it as my ONLY offensive plant. It's also a great counter to Newspaper zombies since their eating speed means they die quickly to a Holly leaf.
I absolutely ADORE Holly. I tried it in reflourished recently, and paired with Holly barrier, the zombies literally cannot pass at all, unless they got some heavy firepower coming. Paired up with power lily to generate PF to use holly´s PF, and Aloe to regenerate leaves, and it becomes a stalling powerhouse.
Vanilla Holly is busted yes but man, I just love this plant anyways. Such a fun, rewarding plant to use.
reflourished is just vanilla but better anyway so yeah, that's holly barrier on it's strongest form.
@@RenShinomiya121 350 sun for an endurian health Holly that throws endurian health walls with increased impact damage at the cost of less knockback (and I mean FAR less than vanilla) but thats okay because you more than make up for it in stalling potential I mean you cannot get better than that tbh
Like other wall plants, you can plant holy barriers upon themselves and it will return all its shots, just something you forgot to mention, love the video man, merry Christmas
If Holly Barrier was bad: *_Holly Sh*t_*
this comment is so ahead of its time
the “you even get your yearly bee swarm simulator update” bit caught me off *guard* so hard, good shit. seriously excited for that as well.
If you wanna do complexity, cover escape root. It switching plants has a ton of potential for strategy (that isn't just putting endangered plants in the back. Also, it has one of the most game breaking bugs in the game, similar to the carrot thing you showed. If you swap it with the air before it's about to explode, it will become uneatable and immortal. Not even garg can smash it)
Was strange to hear you not know where holly comes from- its so easy to take for granted the flora you see every day. I have a friend who lives in britian and she showed me a photo of outside her house once, and all the plants seemed alien to me. The world is a beautiful and wide place
the best part of beesmas isnt that its an update to a game that only updates once a year but the actual best part is that it gives a shit ton of buffs and you get to see those big and shiny numbers everywhere
Intensive Carrot Carl is laughing in 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 damage rn.
According to the wiki, Holly's code name being hollyknight is a reference to the song Silent Night.
It could just as easily be a reference to O Holy Night lol
@@byeguyssry yeah that too
i was NOT expecting a bee swarm cameo in one of these videos.
Or creeps being a bee swarm player
OR ANYONE HERE EVEN KNOWING ABOUT BEE SWARM
I got hyped when I saw you made another one of these. These videos are great keep it up. Your the reason I play the game.
Always love seeing another Creeps20 video, keep up the great videos man :--)
A fact about real life holly (that may be true I can't be bothered to check) is that holly leaves don't start off spiky and instead are smooth and the leaves only become spiky if they regrow after being removed, so in nature smooth holly leaves get eaten by herbivores like deer and the the holly plant regrows the leaves but this time spiky to prevent them from being eaten while the leaves herbivores can't reach stay smooth
Holly Barrier Leaf + Intensive Carrot = God Wall
That 9 quintillion number probably is 2^63 (the highest possible value for a 64 bit signed number).
Its very impressive of how onett keeps the BSS alive while (mostly) only doing yearly updates, its like the tf2 of roblox
Except the updates actually add content instead of only cosmetics and bug fixes
To be honest.
That garlic positive video and wasabi negative one , would probably be a great watch.
Cant wait ; D
Have a great spring.
I found it so crazy how I just expected this to be a PvZ video and didn’t expect for you to like beeswarm as much that’s such a crazy coincidence 😅
I tested the intuitiveness of Holly Barrier's visual design by showing an image of it to my sister, who is very familiar with PvZ1, but not PvZ2.
She thought it lobbed miniature Cherry Bombs
So in my fangame PvZ Danmaku, I included Holly Barrier because it's a cool idea, but I changed its visual design so it’s based on the Cannonball Walnut tree instead, changing its name to Cannonball-nut
Good. Your speech has gotten noticably gotten better.
You forgot to mention that Aloe restores the berries of Holly Barrier.
I remember watching modded PvZ2 vids in another language, without one of your vids I’d never realize it was PvZ2
the damage number reeks of being a "MAX VALUE" of some integer-related class, i'd have to check for stuff like long/long long etc
basically they set the default damage of a plant (in case something bricks) to max value or inf or something, which is saved as an int as this ridiculous number
Did not expect the Beeswarm reference. W content creator
I didn't expect terraria to be mentioned in my pvz 2 reviews that i usually watch.
the 9 quintillion number is the maximum that can be stored by a 64-bit signed integer, it's a pretty common number to see when things go wrong
like, to the point that upon hearing 9 quintillion my first thought was "oh it's a 64 bit signed integer"
same thing with 2147483647, the equivalent limit for 32 bit signed integers
somewhere in the spaghetti that is this game's code someone fucked up but it's not a problem they found while testing
Love these videos!
I love the idea of this plan so much.
Please keep these PVZ 2 videos up, do some on the best level plants of something like that
Finally someone putting respect on holly barriers name I appreciate someone with a following finally talking about one of my favorite plants in pvz2 good video
I agree, sapfling is great. The most recent Penny’s pursuit featured sapfling, so I was able to get my sapfling to level 7, which means it costs only 50 sun now (was 75 sun before). For only 50 sun, you get the same slowing effect as winter melon.
I have never really played or been interested PvZ 2, but I’m still gonna watch this video
Holly barrier is a perfect example of a balanced plant
Intensive carrot is worse that just planting a holy barrier on itself so the berries Regen because it is technically a nut
Just put it on the summoned plants.
But 9 quintillion damag
i clicked the video than looked away for 5 seconds and than i thought i clicked a bee swarm video accidentally
not super related to the video, but the bee swarm appearance caught me off guard, lol. Cant wait for beesmas 2023 though!
Going back to this again after a year later. Merry Christmas everyone
I feel like there was another plant that had an interaction with Holly... I tried it out on some map that trialed plants years ago, and they gave some weird plant that looked like a tree-stump. You'd fire Holly's missle there, then the stump would re-launch it and obliterate zombies. Never really figured out how it properly worked though... nor the plant names =/ hope I'm not just making this one up >
woah that's really interesting, I wonder what it was...
Was it reinforcemint, either that or aloe.
If it shot on its own after use, it was reinforcemint.
I bet beesmas is gonna confuse us all for the next days again.
Hey, this might just be like an AltVerz thing, but I was just messing around with Holly Barrier, and I used plantfood on one since I had plant food on the field without any open slots for it, and then I needed to damage a tanky zombie, and that zombie just happned to be on a tile where a plant food holly berry was, and I found out that shooting a holly berry at another one actually heals the first (probably so they don’t just replace a holly berry with another holly berry), but it also KEEPS the plant food spikes, so you can basically use a normal Holly Barrier shot as a Wall-Nut Aid for a plant food shot.
I get genuinely happy when you like a plant I like lmao. Especially since I'm the newbiest of noobs at the game despite playing it when it first came out (and then uninstalling it and forgetting about it for like half a decade before remembering it existed thanks to your videos).
I should specify that I don't think any of the reasons I like / dislike plants are in any way valid at all. For example, I also hate Missle Toe, but that's due solely to her fucking snowballs being SO HARD for my cave dweller eyes to notice when it's ready. The virgin Missile Toe vs the Chad Banana Launcher.
I think the reason Holly Barrier works so well mechanically is because the premise is simple. "Manual plant, but it fires walls." It fills a unique niche, and the other abilities it received serve to accentuate this mechanic rather than being tacked on. Driving zombies back means more zombies get walled by the shots. Spiky walls are effective at dealing with softer hordes and offer the otherwise weak walls some protection, especially since they're not likely to have a melee plant behind them.
I also loved Frostbite Caves Wave 1; it was my favorite PVZ1 song.
You should make a video about blockoli. I think it’s gotta be the best wall in the entire game. Immune to fishermen and excavator zombie abilities. Plus two straight rows of them can ensure all low health zombies are out
Of the way for your damage dealers.
Holly barrier Was so complex to me when i first laid eyes on it that it toke me in till this video to know what he does other then be a wall plant with summoning more walls with it's plant food
bee swarm simulator in a creeps20 video???
i thought this day would never come
10:30 I'm pretty sure that is the minimum signed int 64 number. This is likely a placeholder value that got placed as the damage due to code shenanigans.
bee swarm simulator update once a year keeps me coming back once a year for the past 5 years
DAMN you intensive carrot carl, DAMN YOU
I would like to see your analysis and commentary to blockoli(I hope I get its name right). Is it just a better tall-nut? Can it completely replace infi-nut's plant food effect?
That bss reference hit home.
I like how there are not one but two cheesy instakill tactics with this plant
for the ways to regenerate shots you forgot just placing one over an already existing one i forgot the name of the ability but whatever
Intensive Carrot Carl better become a channel reoccurring character whenever IC is brought up
Your video previews give an enormous amount of dopamine when I see a new one
Lol
I personally find missle toe worse then banana launcher cause i seem to find that the missoe toe plant food seems to NEVER hit a zombie
they only thing with christmas events is that theyre themed around snow, cold, ice when its 35 degrees all christmas in AUS lol
5:25 this oddly feels like a moment ripped straight out of a tentacrul video
Holly barrier: I ama complex plant that is good if used right
Holly buddy: 🟦🚶♂️🚶♂️🚶♂️🚶♂️
OMG YOURE RIGHT BSS UPDATE MIGHT COME IM SO EXCITEDDDDD
Yeah I love christmas for my yearly bee swarm simulator update
Glad I'm not the only one excited for Beesmas! I've been grinding too much recently.
Me three
Terraria was mentioned, now I must scroll down to see if one of my favorite content creators has any terraria videos
The second it switched to terraria you were my favorite UA-camr
ive always loved manual plants, its why i love pre-rework jackolantern
Ooh, that's really cool!
i didnt expect to click onto a creeps video and hear bss get dunked on in like the fast 10 seconds
creeps20 still manages to make a whole section about intensive carrot slander
I cant wait for this years bee swarm update
did not expect bee swarm in this video
I have absolutely no idea why, but Holly barrier is a very satisfying plant to me for some reason
Always wanted to use him, I'm glad reflourished is a thing.
finally found out a use for intensive carrot
I’d really like to see that Wasabi Whip video eventually
Can't wait for the Blooming Heart video for Valentine's Day
theres nothing to talk about it, its so bad
"Holly Barrier is a wall that spawns walls-" *phone dies*
nuff said
Also holly barrier can get shots again from that healing plant. And it's absolutely op
finally, some love for my boy.
I’m just waiting for the Bee Swarm Simulator video to come out tbh, I want to know the secrets.
Holiday plants are available all year around. You just need to look in the almanac. If you can buy them with money or gems they are easily aquireable outside of their respective holidays. Same goes with the seedium plants they're just a bigger pain to get.
You should do a vid on sap fling he’s like one of my favorite plants, plus he’s like a great staller! You should title or something like “Sap fling is a great staller, and here’s why”
I am very confused as I thought that Endurian had 1500 health
I find this to be the best defense plant out there. Decent cooldown, fair cost, great complexity/easy to use. Provides more room to get that one expensive/ppwerfull/low cd plant, that is your winning condition. And with all shields combined, he is fairly tanky
Hey Mr. Creeps, I have a challenge for you: List every plant in the game starting from Shadow-Pea, and tell me how you feel about each one.
I just wanna know how you feel, and I'm sure it'll make a sweet vid since you haven't really talked much 'bout new plants.
Running holly barrier+Its family power mint is insane!