How to feel 'PHANTOM TOUCH' in VR with your MIND
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Phantom Touch is a weird phenomena where VR players FEEL touch sensations with their BRAIN and nothing else!! The mind can easily get tricked, but this little trick is one of the coolest things I’ve ever experienced. From headpats and shot wounds to the warmth of a fire- you’re able to train your brain to ultimate immersion… I’ve got plenty of science, data, and tips to help you train up your brain to ultimate Phantom Touch sensations! :)
Join the Discord: / discord
Follow PHIA's Socials
Twitter: / phia_bunny
Twitch: / phiabunny
Instagram: / phiabunny
TikTok: / phiabunny
Patreon: / phia
TVRS Twitter: / tvrs_official
VirtuaLilly (Psychologist): / virtualilly
Cen Kyne (PT Trainer): / cenkyne
Exxo (Guinea pig): / exxomixin
=TIMESTAMPS=
0:00 - Intro/Preview
2:01 - What is Phantom Touch?
3:24 - Survey Data/What is it like?
5:50 - The Science
8:44 - The Rubber Hand Experiment
10:41 - Training Demo
14:00 - Tips for Phantom Touch
14:38 - Outro + SUBSCRIBE UwU
Personal Second Channel:
/ @phia_bunny
MERCH:
crowdmade.com/collections/phia
Business Contact: phia@thevirtualreality.show
Check out Elgato for high quality streaming equipment!
www.elgato.com/en
Use code “PHIABUNNY” for up to $100 off your custom PC build from Artesian!
artesianbuilds.com/gaming/?af...
Research Stuff:
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-p...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprio...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
journals.plos.org/plosone/art...
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti... - Наука та технологія
Thanks so much for having me on to do a little bit of my routines :D It was a fun time.
Amazing video, I was actually super excited when VirtuaLily brought up proprioception. I was going to go off on a long tangent of proprioception and also kinesthetic sense and use an example of throwing a ball from one hand to another with your eyes closed, and how easily we are able to do that, but it felt a little out of scope :D Which is why I went into more of closeup magic, slight of hand, and fooling the senses like a magician guides your eyes.
Your tips are great and totally make sense. Thanks!
i knew i recognized the avatar, i met you last week! it's cool to know you got featured here. i enjoyed seeing your routine first hand, even if i couldn't feel anything
I got a Quest 2 about 2 weeks ago and one of my friends who has full body tracking did a "phantom touch test" on me in VRChat and was shocked at how sensitive I was to it after running her hands up my arms. I had never heard of the concept before, I yelped at the sudden chills and sensation I got and it honestly scares me. VR is overwhelming for me and I have to be careful around other people because it's such a strong sensation. If people touch me or get in my face a lot it can get really uncomfortable. It feels very awkward and unusual to describe, like it's a fake thing; so I'm really glad other people are talking about this phenomenon.
It's a really fascinating thing, and I haven't met many other people who know much about it. Do you offer sessions? It would be interesting to learn more about it and maybe help me manage it.
@@Mekose I mean I do this routine for people a lot. I get an increasing amount of requests so I can't fit in as much one on one as I used to but when I do the discord meetups I'll try to do as many as I can :p
@@azrael1556 it's possible though my avatar is not mine and it's public and common. I've tried to do my own avatar but it's too tough for me, even uploading something someone made for me is too tough so I can't even commission one, so I just use public pedestal avatars and have to be happy with that :p
One of the best deep dives into this phenomenon. Great video Phia!!
Thanks for the cameo!! :D
"Biast" xD but hey who am I to complain :P
Wow jonny
Hi jonny
Hello Jonny!
I don’t think this’ll get noticed, but I never got to actually thank you for helping me out with my research paper. I passed the class with flying colors and did a 30 minute presentation on the subject. All of it was started off of your data from the previous survey so thank you so much! ^^
I know its been a year since you put this comment but i feel the need to say, amazing job!! Im so proud! :D
I hope your doing alright nowadays and i hope you have a lovely day :)
@@clover_animateyour so nice ❤
@@AnimeLover77712 thank you! I just want people to be happy and proud of themselves! ^^
I actually experienced Phantom touch my first time in VR. I am one of those who is interested in experiencing more and developing it further. My first interaction with it was, ironically, hitting my head on a virtual counter top as I was reaching for an object.
The best part is when you push your head through a wall and have this feeling of resistence.
Tables/counters are weird in vr. I've dropped my controllers on virtual tables a lot. All in the first week of vr. I almost dropped them in boneworks too.
Lol, imagine your just like "oh its not real" and then just BONK
@@flare5282 wrist straps would be your best friend
I legit feels some phantom touch when i play in those virtual roller coaster you see on some mall or something
In the time i felt some kind of wind blowing of my body it's weird yet so addicting
If ASMR works that well regularly through a 2D screen I can only imagine how MUCH stronger the feeling must be in VR, the brain is quite interesting
VRChat comes with stock spacial audio built right into the software ;) that's why ASMR is great there.
Asmr + vr + motion body sensor. Yes I can enjoy alot when I'm under stress after work.
Hello, as someone who makes ASMR avatars with 2D audio sources to help people "awaken" their phantom senses, it is quite interesting to see how people who swear off phantom sense react and give their feedback afterwards.
you can get asmr irl, it’s the same thing for me
@@Serxne_ what’s an asmr avatar ?
Haptic feedback is also crazy, its amazing how we have made sound waves into a feeling of immersion in VR
Can’t wait until PsVr 2 controllers are made main stream.
@@mangasaint oh yeah fs
Having written a (non-professional, non-published) paper on the effects of Virtual Reality on physical and psychological health a few years ago, I can confirm that finding any useful research regarding the psychological effects of VR is incredibly hard.
It’s a shame, because it’s such an interesting topic, and with the expectation that VR will become more and more accesible over the coming years, it’s important that we understand what it does to our body and mind.
I greatly enjoyed your video on this subject, and I hope to see more videos like it!
@@harvesmun6424 I’ll try and find it, but keep in mind that it’s absolutely not anything professional, and it certainly wasn’t published anywhere. It was simply a final paper I had to write to graduate.
With that in mind, I’d be fine with sharing it, once I find it.
I’ve also edited my original comment to more accurately reflect the fact that it wasn’t a professional or published paper.
This is great information about phantom touch. You give us data, your own personal research, expert's opinions, everything! Thank you very much for this video. (I never even knew about phantom touch before this, but this is cool!)
man see your intro make my heart so delight haha
wish i can experience this too in VR when i get VRheadset too
If you have a strong reaction to ASMR, you'll probably have phantom touch as well
@@BlackHayateMX ASMR not make me feel that much but i can feel it hahaha hope i can get into VR soon
@@ShopperKungVtuber I hope you get into VR soon too! Slowly save for a quest 2, they might be on sale or refurbished on amazon, and I can assure you, it's definitely a good value
@@BlackHayateMX ahh i can't wait hahaha Thank you
Even if u don’t u can sort of get used to it and train yourself for it
Really excited to hear your take on the giant update to vr chat! With eye and face tracking being added it's going to be wild
Gonna be trying out the new body tracking update on stream in an hour!
@@TheVirtualRealityShow I’m assuming it was delayed?
@@TheVirtualRealityShow i recommend you to learn how to lucid dream, a dream is vr but way more better. But no "multiplayer" You can also contol the dream but you need to also learn how to control a dream first before doing it. as a Once you get the hang of lucid dreaming, compare vr and dreaming to see the similarities. As a suggestion, of course.
@@TheVirtualRealityShow in lucid dreaming there is a lot of clickbait, so here is the channels i recommend if you get intrested in lucid dreaming:
-Lucid dream portal
-tipharot
-any of the yters those 2 channels recommend you to watch.
@@JHINYT yes, lucid dreams are amazing but I rarely have them. I'm very good at flying.. also can sometimes shoot a fireball and use the "force" to control objects.
I had been trying for almost two years to get Phantom Touch, 2 Rift S headsets and 1 Valve Index later, I tried hypnosis on multiple accounts and training, and I had basically given up. Recently I got Tundra Trackers to go along with my Index, and I also ended up getting an avi commissioned that I can no longer change out of, she's extremely helpful for my dysphoria and has helped me in my transition! The first day of Full Body and using this avi, I finally felt it, feeling touch without actually being touched. VRChat has changed my life over these two years and I only see it getting better from here on out~ Thank you for the video!
Congrats, I can imagine it has gotten even better for you by now?
Something I've noticed when being in VR, if I'm in a quiet room no sense of reality it normally helps me stay immersed and the more I am in VR it allows me to feel and touch. I've done many experiments and the environments play a big part in being immersed, well atleast to me and other subjects I have used to back up my research.
Just wanna say this: phantom touch/sense will start differently for people, for me it was out of nowhere, but for others (like the demo) it was very slow and gradual.
I've also seen people lose phantom sense by not playing VR as much or playing VR in ways that moved away from reality (teleportation movement, flying, etc.) but the latter doesn't always get rid of your phantom sense.
For me it’s odd almost like I’ve always had it to some extent there’s a few times playing games I’d hyper focus on the task at hand and I will for example get hit with a stray round and get a sharp pain in my ribs but vrc has been different I don’t even use vr yet but I can normally feel tingling on my scalp along my spine or my limbs when I’m “touched” by someone. A friend of mine did enhance it doing a similar technique to the one in the video
Maybe poeple that experience this..phantom touch thing have mental issues or some kind of mental disorder... because in all actuality...that's not possible and it's wierd. Maybe these poeple long for human touch so much they became mentally ill and have problems now. I like vr stuff but these kind of poeple seem scary and makes a person wonder who their talking to
@@Blake-ld7mx You're connecting dots that aren't even there. First off, the assumption that everyone that has it has a mental illness/disability is just plain wrong. I know several neurotypicals and neurodivergent people who have phantom sense. That doesn't play a factor. Neither does the longing for human touch. It's simply just playing VRC for so long that your sense of self morphs adapts to the game, then snapping back to how it usually is once you get off.
As of right now, there is no known factor that changes the difficulty for someone to get phantom sense. From what I've seen, it might be from how they treat the game, but I don't have any evidence for that, so take it with a grain of salt.
And you saying that phantom sense is impossible... That's just plain wrong. Phantom sense is your brains sense of self and space changing (or as your brain thinks, adapting) to VRChat. To explain sense of self and space, try stubbing your toe against a wall. You'll most likely stop, or at the very least slow down, before hitting the wall. Now, after playing in VR for a bit, your sense of space gets thrown off and you're more likely to accidentally stub your toe without stopping your foot.
Also, the longing for human touch that people become mentally ill... that part is a bit crazy. This is VRChat, not solitary confinement. There's a big difference between the two. One is a piece of tech, the other is a concrete room. One is known to connect people, while the other is known to legitimately cause mental illness.
Believe what you like, just don't try to dehumanize others and make medical assumptions when you don't have the authority to. There's still research going on involving this right now, so we should both keep that in mind, just don't try to argue with science.
@@mineday209 dude who's demoralizing anyone....the stuff poeple do and say on VR chat is beyond wierd my guy. I go on just to play chess with with poeple that never talk...they might utter solid move but we simply play chess. If you look at how poeple interact in certain areas of VR chat and what they say it's pretty evident that there's a social disorder of some kind a large number of them lack. Not everyone does that...but wierd sht like this makes other people wonder if nothing but wierdos are on VR chat.
@@Blake-ld7mx a lot of senses rely on anticipation of certain stimuli phantom sense works a bit different for some people so mental health can be a potential factor but it’s the anticipation of touch it doesn’t actually feel like getting a hug more like the anticipation but you’re brain still sees you getting a hug so you feel the anticipation still our brain fills in the gaps of sensory information where it feels like there should be information after all we get sick in VR if we’re not used to it just starting out since our brain is seeing movement but doesn’t feel it which makes our wires get crossed from the contradictions of information, as pointed out before too some people have strong empathetic sense and sometimes feel things happen whenever it happens in a movie for example and it’s probably a coincidence but I may have experienced something similar as a kid playing games once randomly I got hit in game and got a small pain in my ribs so it could be from many many different things all coming together to make the same effect
The first time I was hanging out with some people in vr (was on desktop previously for vrchat) I was sitting next to my now boyfriend while he was streaming and the avatar he was playing as had a tail that kept hitting me in the face and I kept instinctively putting up my hands to push it away. I didn't realise what was happening in that moment but later on I booped his nose and he reacted to the sensation, so we had a conversation about phantom touch and realised it was something I experienced too. I was super fascinated with it. I still think it's pretty hecking cool. One of my favourite things to do in vrchat worlds is sit in water that has some wave movement and feel the rise and fall of it around me. It's super calming.
Honestly this is amazing. So informative and thorough. Honestly amazing job, blown away with your last two vids!
Thank you!! Actually feels reassuring to hear that. The last two videos have been really stressful because I’m working extra hard on making them my best ones yet.
Gonna keep learning and make sure to get the best content out I can 🙇♀️
Wow Phia, your content has been 🔥🔥🔥 lately! Packed full of high quality information but also funny and entertaining. You and SadleyitsBradley deserve honorary PhDs!
Would like to see content on Avatar identities/cultures (male female, furry, chibi, etc). Also, I think VR instructor-led classes will be huge! e.g. DustBunny is offering more classes like fitness and yoga soon. Maybe some content around that?
Yesterday, me and a group of friends were playing Prison Escape in VRC, and one of my friends, who have phantom pain/touch, kept on getting shot at to the point where they needed to take a break from the game. I helped out by grabbing an avatar with ice on it, and used it to help numb the pain, which I think helped.
that’s so interesting how the brain works like that! wow
Maybe they should go see a doctor about mental issues🤣
it legit has nothing to do with mental issues it has to do with the way your mind works and pieces together whag you’e seeing 💀
I hate being shot in VR lmfao I literally feel every bullet
@@otchii106 nah it's just the wierdos that flood VR chat these days.
Loved the video! It's definitely something I've taken interest in both due to various friends talking about their experiences, and wanting to experience it for myself. For anyone who reads this, I have a few more tips to consider:
1. Practicing regularly seems to get better results. Try training it for 10-15 minutes each time you hop in VR before you visit friends. Slow, predictable movements seem to be the best for practicing, as they're the easiest to anticipate.
2. Physical stimuli, similar to the Rubber Hand Experiment, has helped others and myself feel phantom touch in areas where it's difficult to notice. Soft textures worked best for me, like a long-handled paint brush you'd find at a craft store. Use the brush in combination with a soft-looking prop in VR and try to synchronize the VR prop and IRL prop as closely as possible, brushing slowly over your body for a prolonged period. You can find a good brush in Tony_Lewis's map "What could be VR Sense".
3. Expanding on the first tip, you can use your breath as a substitute for a paint brush. Blowing gently on sensitive parts of the arm can move the hairs and, in combination with a soft-looking prop like before, you can synchronize the pull of a brush with the movement of your breath over your arm.
4. The world "Camera Test" by Μerlin is fantastic if you don't have a practice partner. You can do the same slow, deliberate movements to yourself by turning on the Rotation Mirror. I find this makes the effect stronger than normal as you're better able to anticipate what should be happening since you're the one deciding what actions to take next, how fast they move, and even how much "pressure" you should be expecting.
5. ASMR prop worlds are a great tool for training as the use of audio can really enhance your experience. "VR ASMR V․2․0" by Mosco_あしもす has some well-made tools, and I find the cotton swab (aka mimikaki) is especially good at triggering sensations around the ears. If your avatar's ears don't line up with your IRL ears, it can even help calibrate where your ears feel like they should be. If you find you're sensitive to pressure, use can use the flip side of it to try and get a feeling of, say, a pencil pressing on your skin.
6. I find the most likely places to feel it among friends are around the head and especially the face, the arms, chest, and thighs. People who are particularly sensitive also say they feel tails, ears, and even wings sometimes.
7. Use this tip at your own risk! Some people I've spoken to have mentioned that after sleeping in VR, they felt things more strongly just after waking up, almost like they're in another body entirely. Just be careful if you're going to try sleeping in VR. It can strain your neck, it can be difficult to get comfortable, and you absolutely can snap things on your headset by rolling the wrong way.
My first time in vr I was just having a blast. I was playing SuperHot and I was going all over the place because of how much fun it was to physically dodge projectiles and hits. I ended up taking cover behind a shelf/ block thing and sort of leaned into it, to the point where my actual left arm would be inside the object.
Immediatly along the left side of my body, totally engulfing my arm I felt this weird physical tingling feeling. I've never forgotten it and it's so weird, I havent gotten to use vr much since so I havent had another run in with phantom touch, so idk how much I natrually feel or not.
As an ADHD fellow, Phantom Touch has been interesting. The ADHD means EVERYTHING is interesting, and I know enough about anatomy and biology to have an idea of what different things would feel like. Extra fingers, arms, tails, wings, you name it, and I have a sense of what musculature would be engaged, what moving it in tandem with other limbs and even what damaging it would be like. It is quite interesting. I once had a time when I was new to VR chat, and I stood in a corner of some club world. Something felt off, but it took me a minute to look down and notice that I was standing in someone. Now that is a bizarre feeling.
Also, the quest's gaurdian boundary feels warm, and so do the Beat Saber sabers.
Hello fellow adhd….fellow
@@kinglewis8644 Greetings, and a pleasure to make your acquaintance
OH MY GOD FINALLY SOMEBODY MENTIONS HOW THE BOUNDARY FEELS WARM!!!!! And like when you stick your hand outside of it it suddenly gets cold
Thank you for deep diving into the phenomena, I've had phantom sense for a while since 2015 actually. One of my buddies induced it and made it a reality for me very early on before it was even known to be a thing. Since my time in VRC I've had multiple people abuse it to the point where I keep to myself in Friends+ worlds but I've gotten back out of that, I just tell my friends not to tell others about it. But I do enjoy it, it's comforting being able to feel another's touch, body heat, environmental things and so much more. It's truly something I've enjoyed being able to feel. It was weird at first and I didn't like the sensation but I've grown to love it, except for the jerks that walk through, shoot me, and ignore the fact I'm uncomfortable. I've gotten so well versed with it that I've even started helping friends who began feeling it with the processes to make it less jarring and scary, it's a slow process but I usually always help my friends overcome that.
Phia, this was an awesome video! It was structured perfectly, and hit all the major points. As someone with synesthesia, phantom sense was one of the first things I experienced in VR. It was a crazy experience, and something I'll never forget. I had no idea people actually tried to train this stuff, and it was very eye-opening.
You deserve so many more subs, you are such a very informal and great teacher for things like VR chat, and I look for all my tutorials on your videos, great job!
PLUR PHIA! This is my favorite episode you have created so far. I love how open you are about substances. Timothy Leary said" In the future every drug will be a computer and every computer will be a drug".....this was in one of his books named, Neuropolitique
It definitely seems to me things like Phantom Touch and ASMR has a body sensitivity correlation. It is awesome to me witnessing the science and exploration of these subjects that historically hasn't really been explored too much!
Huh. It's really interesting to see a video on this. I've been experiencing this phenomenon since I first got my hands on my O.G. Rift CV1, though I've never known what to call it or how to describe it until now. I actually have a very strong memory from my first time playing the Oculus demo, and being able to "feel" a butterfly as it landed on my finger. It was amazing. Glad to see I'm _not_ just crazy, and other people get it in VR too, lol. Great video!
The last couple of vids have been really information-dense and nicely produced. Very professional and valuable! Thank you.
0:14 Glad to know Phia isn't the only one to have been frightened by this in Phasmo XD
I scramed bro XD
The first (and so far, only) time I've had phantom touch was in Echo VR. No player to player interaction, but the buttons that hover above the little stand in the center of the lobby. I used my pointer finger and felt a little fuzzy touch. It was so cool and I'm trying to do it again!!
I love your content and it keeps on getting better and better everytime. I even got to see TFMJonny
2:26 This has to still be Phia's most watched and most UA-cam recommended video ever XD
Never come across this channel before but I must admit this was a surprisingly well researched and put together video. I’m definitely impressed
It makes sense when you look into phantom pain that people who've lost limbs often experience. Super interesting topic
Great work, PHIA!
Great video! Will definitely be trying out those phantom touch training techniques sometime.
THESE VIDEOS ARE SO AMAZING! I found this channel recently and your content is so awesome and extremely well made.
I get Phantom Touch from ASMR and the idea of VR being able to give me a more immerse experience really makes me happy. The only problem is I can't afford a VR headset XP
You should totally do a "what happens when you are high in VR" and talked about experiences of pleople with marihuana in VR, Maybe do survey too.
Like, will that increase your inmersion? make feel pantom touch even more probable?
i’ve done it a few times in vrc, honestly when i’m high it feels as if i’m a little more aware of where i’m at, like i know it’s a game, i’ve experienced phantom sense once or twice, and i was sober, just played for a long amount of time
I will say playing beat saber lit is an experience. When the edible hits in the middle of the song I feel like I'm powering up. And then I either do amazing or absolutely terrible lmao.
For me personally it definitely feels more like I'm hitting solid blocks right in front of my face, and I have to be careful looking around/behind me because my fear of heights gets so much worse and I could literally fall over irl.
Phia that was absolutely amazing... When you were demonstrating the video on Phantom touch training... And the individual was stroked on the hair and face I was having mirrored touch my chin was itchy my hair felt weird and all sorts of things like that... Can't wait until I get a VR system.... Keep up the good work I love episodes like this
First video I’ve ever watched on your channel and you 100% think you pass the vibe check
Phantom touch is also an expectation and is a dream factor. In dreams you can feel something, that is called a imaginary sensation.. Phantom touch is expectation that you will feel something and then the imaginary sensation that occur in dreams will appear if you expect yourself to feel that.
Holy crap VR on substances sounds amazing... I need to try this next time I'm home from college and have access to VR
I experienced it once recently because I was interacting with someone I knew IRL and was familiar with how they felt and such, I hadn't really experienced it much yet, but I'm looking to focus on it more to see how it might increase.
I really wasn't sure what to expect as im new to VR but your content is very engaging and helpful thank you
I would love to get phantom touch, and everytime I say that, there is always someone that says :
"No you don't, there is a lot of bad stuff about it"
When someone says that, I'm pretty sure that they've got phantom touch right away and basically always had it, they think i don't understand what they feel but they actually miss the point that i've never experienced it and how frustrating it can be to me
For me, experience is very very important, and I'm able to experience a lot through VR and feeling touch would basically make me discover and rediscover VR
What I would like to try is training phantom sense in VR and also by lucid dreaming, don't know how effective it is but I want to experience both so will be hitting both targets at once
Quick vent before going to bed, i wish I could just stop time to work on all of the projects I have in mind and have fun with them with others as fast as possible
Time goes by way too quickly and I wanna do the stuff that I want like i should've done when I was growing up but didn't got the chance and the courage to do so.
Regrets regrets regrets but we move on!
Wish me luck for phantom touch & lucid dreaming 🤞
~ R e v e
i really want phantom touch, hope this helps!
Just found this channels, I never done vr but these videos are so immersive
I actually studied this massively myself. This also goes into the doll hand experiment. I actually learned a lot of the interactions responses and so on.
Hey just wanted to add my Phantom sense experiences i had in VR which seem quite special atleast regarting to my vr friends i talked about this :p
The first time i got in VR was with the index with Half Life alyx, the first syringe with that healing thingy inside it i pooked it into my thump and at that moment when i heard the noise and saw it active i felt a really intense spot on my thump just spme sense of a sharp object or point on my thumb, i had to physically take the headset of at that moment just to make sure i dont for real have something in my thumb that how real it felt.
Following that event the first few days my dreams were so weird, i had dreams of visions that vr was reallife and i thought in my dreams that halflife or vrchat maps were real, seeing stuff i saw in vr just with the added twist that they were really vivid dreams (which for me as a really strong non dreamer, meaning that i really rarely get dreams that i remember after waking up, was quite facinating), when that happened i searched the phenomenon and found a few reddit posts of people experiencing the same effect, not many tho which supprised me. (this doesnt have much to do with the phantom sense itself but i thought i'd still include it because its still something i felt and experienced and because the mind is one big piece of meat its not far apart from the sensing stuff so why not include it :D )
I will never forget the first few days of playing vr mainly just half life alyx and vrchat because i had nothing else in the beginning, and im pretty sure that vr will change my live going on forward because im just currently starting to study and want to do something in the direction for contibuting to the vr scene like hardware or software or anything tech/vr related.
This was my small take on how i get Phantom sense and touch in vr. i still have these feeling and i still have phantome sense and touch just now that i know its virtual and got used to it, i dont freak out like i did the first time i pooked my thumb in HL: Alyx, its still alot of fun tho and people in vrchat always say that i like to give alot of headpets, hugs and nose boobs, which is true just because i like the "feel" of touching my friends, and i always ask people who i dont know that well before because i dont want to make them unconfortable.
Thats it for my small piece i wanted to add to this video, i didnt know there was a new google form on this, because i would also have put in my votes and thought in but maybe this helps too :3
Make peace, not war, stay save and have a nice day, evening or night whoever is reading this rn :)
"There's no haptics. All we rely on is the strongest piece of technology ever" Oh okay that seems fine :)
Thank you for these videos! Very interesting! These topics are never studied but I think slowly they will
Great video Phia!
This topic is veeery interesting.
Just watching the clips kinda gave me a slight feeling of it, especially at 1:54 wtf ig that's the mirror touch synesthesia you talked about
Quite fascinating to have such a vestigial experience considering it has little to no weight in evolution, as in it's not quite advantageous or disadvantageous to have phantom senses.
As I said in the form you posted, I feel phantom touch far more often when using hand tracking on Oculus Quest 2. I don't know why, but I could feel every detail when using hand tracking, but not when using controllers!
same here
I don't have much of a stance on phantom touch, I get shot stabbed or exploded in vr and I'm just "owch dude". This video did help to find out that its actually a minority of people that feel mirror-pain and an even smaller portion that feel mirror-touch synesthesia. Thought everyone felt literal physical pain when they see their fellow main suffering but I guess that just makes me a cool dude.
I had someone playing with my avatars ears one time (as my favorite bunny avatar) and, omg I finally felt it. It freaked me out in a good way. I now feel it almost every time when friends play with my ears or give me headpats. I love it!!
I have extreme phantom touch, and it sometimes can be a pain, literally, though it mostly happens to me in the way of being able to "control" or "feel" limbs that don't exist, although I also have really good environmental phantom touch.
I already experience mirror touch synesthesia so I'm curious as to how I'd react to VR. still haven't gotten a headset myself but the few times I've played VR at arcades I definitely felt myself becoming incredibly immersed, so I'm eager to try phantom touch stuff someday.
Im a noob to VR, got my quest 2 recently and played a roller coaster ride and ohhh man, I cant explain it but YES i felt it, from when the ride dropped down to every twist and turn to going upside down, its so bizarre! and I LOVE IT!!
I was actually looking on phantom touch just today, and this video came out 5 hours ago, thanks!!!
Interesting subject, I'm super tired so I want to ramble. Here, have a wall of text for anyone that is curious enough to reach it! =p
I spend a lot of time in VR, so my phantom sense is incredibly strong. Sometimes even making me aware of things I wasn't paying attention to before. Usually the claws on the paws of some people using animal avatars. I was expecting a nice soft boop, then all of a sudden uncomfortable hard spot in a small area because of the claws that surprises me. Phantom sense very rarely feels bad, it almost always feels good. It usually is only annoying if my avatar's limbs get twisted in a way I don't like, or someone/something lodges something into my avatar. I've only ever felt pain from being stabbed by sharp objects, but it's not too strong, just very uncomfortable. Luckily I don't have to worry about being shot, my brain doesn't make the connection with guns, buuut I can't go underwater without feeling discomfort because I had a cousin that tried to hold me under water all the time when I was a kid.
Luckily I don't have to deal with this stuff often. I will say I find it very amusing how strongly headpats effect me though, I get so relaxed by them and I don't know why. In my early days in VRChat where I had tons of anxiety all the time, sometimes I'd panic, and then someone would just start headpatting me and it just calms me down instantly. If someone headpats me too much, it really does just put me to sleep (can be a pain since it can leave me drowsy if they stop if I'm trying to stay awake). I just so happen to have a heart rate monitor because I do a lot of exercising, but it goes down by 20 rather quickly whenever someone starts to headpat me, then shoots back up when they stop. I don't have the massive anxiety anymore, so I haven't been in a panicky situation in a long time so I dunno if that still would happen to me. Though I will say, does surprise me to have so many friends that also get sleepy. They've gotten a little grumpy from time to time because I accidentally made them drowsy/put them to sleep with headpats. I'm sorry, I see a fluffy animal thing, and I gotta pat it!
I do think that phantom sense is based off of your mind trying to piece things together using memories you've had in the past in the real world. Then when it can't figure out how to interpret it, it does that tingling sensation, which is probably why that is so common.
Definitely stealing a few of these techniques when trying to help people strengthen their phantom sense though. Hand tracing is one I default to often, but sometimes I poke a little, and it seems to work better if you have an avatar that has a point like claws or something, seems to make people's minds focus more on the smaller spots.
MIrror touch is interesting and I will definitely try that on the fly, but I definitely suggest going to a world called "Beyond Reflection". It's a world where it creates a mirrored avatar. It can really get people's phantom senses going. If you have some friends who are very sensitive, expect to see a strong reaction from them if you bring them there. One of my friends was having fun bringing the sensitive people there to see people go "WTF!?" especially when they go to touch the mirrored avatar and get touched by that avatar at the same time. So I've definitely seen it enough in that world to recommend it.
I will have to test out hand clasping for sure. I've met a few people who only feel heat, so that might be able to bridge the gap a bit. Face touching I'd be a bit nervous to do to some people, but I could see why it'd work. Funny that the example here is touching under the chin because that's a very very sensitive spot for me for some reason. Only found out because there were a few people that like testing out how everyone's person's phantom sense works. Definitely got to experiment to find out where the sensitive spots are. Most people usually feel phantom sense better on their body, but I've met a couple people who only feel phantom sense in their tail/ears and it's very sensitive there.
I only have about 80 hours in VRC so far but I have occasionally felt it when players get very close (typically when someone reaches towards my head for a headpat), its a very interesting experience. I wonder if the type of headsets people are wearing and the FOV affects phantom touch at all.
Bruh I def have over 1000 at this point and I don’t feel a thing
@I Am JTEK probably, a lot of vrchat players I meet are very strange
@I Am JTEK It never said that EVERYONE experiences is it. While the validity of the research can be a bit dubious, no disrepect toward phia's work and efforts, phantom sensations are scientifically proven. It's been proven before VR existed, in people with missing limbs. Their brains activate in the areas that show that they ARE feeling pain in limbs they no longer have, during brain scans. Whether you like it or not, you can't deny something that is scientifically proven. And if people can feel it in real life, they can definitely feel it in VR. 500 is not a big sample size, and there's likely a decent chunk of people who aren't being honest (it's not a common phenomenon), but 100% guaranteed it happens with some people. Denying it is idiocy and willful ignorance.
This is so fascinating! Thanks for making such a good video about this
"Your perception of what's real is your reality, damn , that's deep
I've never felt phantom touch but hear from so many people about it, I've always wanted to feel it and it fascinates me, even tried the phantom worlds in vrchat but still can never feel anything, I wonder why that is....?
Its hard to say why, like most things that don't really "exist" and are a result of brains doing odd brain things there is a giant heap of it varies
I think it's like how some people have wildly vivid imaginations and some just don't have any mental eye at all, or how some people have vivid audio imagination but a dull visual imagination or vice versa, where there probably is also a category of i guess you'd call "haptic imagination" in there too which likewise also varies
Now I don't necessarily think these things are inert since brains aren't a static machine, i do think most people with enough effort could learn to make their brains do these things (i know people have learnt and trained themselves to have much more vivid imaginations after starting off with dull ones) and you probably could find a way to learn it with enough effort
but brains are wildly weird and no two brains are the same, so how to learn to do it or if you can is unfortunately up to you to try figure out, and if you don't have that starting point of knowing what to look for it's probably going to be much harder
I wish i could give you actual advice instead of just a bramble ramble of my barely coherent thoughts, but i unfortunately can't really do that (i think the closest i can suggest would be to try find any seed or hint of it to build off of), but i do wish you luck in figuring out whatever way it takes you to experience it
I have a very good imagination and I can just think about being touched somewhere and it will tingle in there. Feels useful :>
it's good to know more about phantom touch because i have it a lil like anytime i go into water in vr i start to feel cold like how you feel first getting into a pool.
Great video. Tbh first time I felt this was not even in VRChat. It was the frst time I played Skyrim VR. I got so immersed in it that after some time playing I went to the snow mountains and felt as if snow was falling onto my face and not realizing it. Just after few minutes of this sensation I was like "Huh?...Its not even real, how do I feel it. And it went away in the instance". it was weird experience but it was the first one for me.
I can only feel temperature and rarely smell when in VR. I find it interesting that specific parts of phantom sense can apply, not being all or none.
You know TFMJonny, Phia?
Definitely gonna be thinking differently the next time I put my headset on, great video!!
I’ve felt some weird shocks when shot in Superhot. It wasn’t necessarily painful, so honestly it was pretty cool.
Phantom touch LIKE vegan food. GOT IT.
Awesome video Phia!
This gets really gets it on the nose! I can almost feel it... ZING!!!
This is just awesome !
Woah !
I MUST try this !
Ayyyy, I get mirror touch so often, pretty cool to see it mentioned here!
Me and my boyfriend are long distance, so we usually spend time together through video games. We started using Vr headsets to play VRChat a few months ago, and I had no idea what "phantom sense" was. After a while of playing it(he played more often than I did) he started saying he was developing it, and explained that he could feel things like leaning against walls or people touching him. That was the first I had ever heard of it, and so whenever we played I would try and focus more to see if I could start feeling it, and turns out I can! It's pretty cool, although it's mild. I can't really feel anything in the hands or hips-down because the fact that I'm sitting and holding the controllers throws me off. Other than that though, it's so nice to be able to hug each other, touch each others faces, give head pats and actually be able to feel it even if it's slight. I figure as we play more it'll get better. I even practice sometimes by doing the arm tracing thing on myself, or just out of boredom, because it really is a cool concept. Geez, if I explained any of this to my parents they'd probably send me to a mental hospital.. but oh well. Maybe in the future when I live with him we can get better tracking and more space to move around so we can test it out more.
11:13 love the Reg avi. Yeah phantom touch is definitely a thing in VRchat. Experienced it on my second day in.
I experience phantom touch and sense all the time while in vrc. I can't be booped or I sneeze sadly, I don't hang out in public worlds do to that fact, because once someone I don't know finds out they'll keep harassing me till I block them. I can feel phantom touch all over my body. Fun fact: depending on the avatar I'm using at the time, I can feel some of the clothing it's wearing. This is one reason why I like having different types of avatars just so I can see what it will do to my senses. I loved your video and how well in depth you went into this subject.
I’ve been playing VRchat for almost a year, now. I only got my headset in the start of December, though (A little birthday gift to myself). As soon as I got in, I logged on to VRchat with the headset. It was disorienting, I remember losing my balance every time I moved. It was so weird but fascinating to finally be “in” VRchat, not playing it on desktop. I only knew about Phantom Touch/Phantom sense because a lot of my friends had it. I only experienced it very faintly, every once in a while, nothing too important though. It was only a couple of days ago, when I put on an avatar that had a wagging tail, that I went into sensory overdrive. Mind you, I never wanted Phantom sense, it just happened. I got overwhelmed and kept trying to remember that I didn’t actually have a tail, but my brain wouldn’t listen. I got used to it, though XD
Phia I really liked your enthusiasm and the informational video thank you keep it up
This has been really interesting. I haven’t hung out in vr much lately and I’ve never had phantom sense or touch or anything but I’ve always been curious on trying to get it….
had this happen playing Propagation, the zombie game, scariest thing that's happened recently. I guess I can say I've been bit by a zombie and survived.😅
Really enjoy your videos like this. It's very interesting that not much research has been done an phantom touch yet. I personally only have phantom touch with people I'm close with, like someone I've known a long time. But I can also feel a weird sting sensation if let's say someone gets hurt in a movie.
If you're looking for an idea on a video, I'd recommend looking into the Deaf/sign language community of VRChat.
In dreams you can feel the same sensation of touch you do in real life, in fact sometimes it's more enhanced. Honestly dreams are better than VR. I highly recommend lucid dreaming to everyone
If I may give an input, my phantom has gotten so strong over the year that I've been playing vrchat that I can taste things in VR, feel temperatures in specific biomes and settings, and even have intricate feelings with avatars.
A good example of what I mean is that with worlds that include pools of water you can swim in, I always feel like I'm swimming in jello-like substance, like say slightly dry water.
But an interesting thing I've noticed is that with one of the few avatars I use all the time, this one having a robotic arm, the water feeling doesn't affect that specific arm at all.
the robotic arm thing is SOOO interesting thats so cool, its like your brain is making the connection that _that_ isnt real but everything else is, wild dude
A year ago, this inspired me to start a research project about phantom sense. Thank you!
Damn fine video PHIA!
Nice one, great subject. I have a basic level of phantom touch. I do feel something and thermal changes. The fluffiness of certain textures. your mind makes it real or just feels something. 👍😁💕😎
"Honey, wake up, new VRShow episode just dropped, it's phantom touch again"
AYE?!
11:52 I felt a variety of chills watching this sequence. That's trippy.
I tried VR chat a couple of times, without a VR headset, and I was actually surprised how much people being too close to my avatar felt like they were "too close" or looming over me. Especially when I chose a small chibi cat avatar; someone reached out and pat my head and I cringed, feeling like they were about to touch me, like a feeling of heightened sensitivity in the spot where I was expecting to be touched.
Something about the way the camera position, FOV and perspective is handled makes it feel real.
I'm much more of an Opensim user, and there I'm quite attached to my avatar; people standing too close feel too close, and things that effect my appearance or animations unexpectedly feel like an unwelcome interference, but it's nowhere near as strong as this.
Keep up the great work Phia!!! Long time fan
As someone who is completely new to the whole VR thing. This is really interesting. I never tried VRchat (too shy to go and meet new people) but it's really cool.
There's a german philosopher called Thomas Metzinger who also talks about this (not VR specifically but rather the 'virtual model' of our bodies). Very detailed and interesting explanation if you're interested (although much of it is the same stuff you mentioned in this video).
This is a great video
I am still new to VR overall and I will say my phantom touch really became apparent in VRC.
I played games like Waltz of the Wizard and Saints and Sinners and Hand Physics Lab.
I never really had a touch or feel in those games. Until I played Surv1v3 which is a fun little zombie game I highly recommend
When I get shot by a NPC I was wondering why my chest hurt and when I stop playing it slowly went away.
in VRC however when someone touched me it was slowly returning and it was crazy.
I viewed it as hypnosis since I really only looked into that.
the art of suggestion giving words to help the mind think/focus of imagery and feelings even emotions.
Except this is a visual "suggestion" that adds a extra depth without words or at least sometimes, like I don't feel a hug due to not paying attention until someone say's "huuuug" or I just notice.
This explains a great deal and again GREAT VIDEO
I want to study this more as well as other VR things and this kinda added a extra bit more fire to this~
Thank you!
Hello there Phia, i've been playing Vrchat for about 5 years now and over the time i've really started to experience a lot with phantom touch on so many levels, from just a gentle hand stroking my cheek or a calm breeze gently going by, to feeling a bullet or a knife actually going through my body and i can feel the pain, it is something that ultimately is so amazing and it's why i keep going into the vr world almost everyday because of it, it is amazing and i do want to say to those who may look at this and think that it's not real or that it's all made up, thinking that everyone is just joking and that vrchat is just a normal game, i want to say that vrchat is not just a game.. it's another reality, a different world from our own and when you're able to actually feel this sentation of phantom touch, even if it's in desktop mode, you will realize that it's a whole new experience, it's like you're reborn a new person and people get to see all that it has to offer, i've personally had alot of things happen with phantom touch, a few of the things being..
Able to feel water if i'm swimming in the ocean
Feeling the calm breeze of the wind on a open field
Feeling the impact of an explosion
Feeling the touch of another person
all of these things have ultimately made me realize that vrchat is slowly becoming our new home, we get to see and do so many things and it's all thanks to the phantom touch, i've even done a smaller version of a phantom touch test where i test to see just how high someone's phantom touch is and about 80% of the people are actually able to feel it all the way from their shoulders to their hands, the shoulders being the low and the hand being the high, and it's really amazing, i also want to say that i've been loving all of your videos that you've posted and this one is one of my favorites because it talks about the one thing in vrchat and virtual reality that is almost impossible to explain, it needs to be experienced to fully understand it.
this makes a lot of sense especially in regards to the paranormal our sixth sense what is alerting us to the paranormal is the goosebumps or the back hair on your neck however the difference is not everyone can do that automatically only with training and practice
I used to experience intensely euphoric ASMR tingles when I was a kid but that was back in the 70s / 80s before there was even a word for it, I never told anyone until recent years hearing about ASMR. For me it was most intense whenever an adult payed positive attention to anything I owned or had made; e.g. praising my art work or admiring one of my possessions although I believe I also experienced it when having my hair cut.
I've never really explored it in VR but now I'm fascinated to find out if I can reclaim some of those sensations through this medium 🤔😁
I developed such strong phantom sense in vr over the course of 3 and half years that it spread into irl. During my time in vr I developed Phantom senses of textures,temperatures,clothing,touch,pain,motion. Eventually smelling and tasting things. However with smell and taste the what should be correct is sometimes strange. I started by smelling things in a way I perceive that thing should smell like. I started experiencing taste even if I wasn't trying to you know eat something. Eventually I learned that this was a type of Synesthesia. I also developed mirror touch Synesthesia at the same time. The shocking thing that whilst I experienced these things as a gradually increasing concept that it was sometimes starting to effect me irl just casually whilst I was watching things or playing games. Now days Its very active for me which is quite fascinating but its also kinda quite weird. In reality I like that I developed these strange new sensations because it makes not only vr more immersive but really just any game or movie or tv show so much more vibrant.
Most of the times these are good sensations however sometimes I can perceive a location as a head ache inducing smell for example i once associated these reddish marble tinted spiral pillars as kinda meat looking so there was just this overpowering smell of burnt bacon so the location of a ready room in a vr place gave me such a headache i had to give feedback to the map developer who kindly changed it for me;d.