Roland Digital Snare vs Analog Snare Trigger + BT-1 | PD-140DS & TD-50 vs Pearl Mimic Pro Comparison
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Comparing the performance of the Roland PD-140DS digital snare pad on a TD-50 with a standard analog snare trigger + Roland BT-1 for cross-stick on a Pearl Mimic Pro. Digital snare vs analog snare - which is better?
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Compatible with
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► Roland SPD-S, SPD-SX, TM-6 Pro, TM-2, TD-50, TD-27, TD-17
► Alesis Strike Multipad, Strike Module
► Yamaha DTX Multi 12
► Pearl Mimic Pro
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The Mimic w positional sensing would be an absolute blast.
It is NOW!
@@482jpsquared Yup! It's great :-D
The Roland digital snare is by far the best edrum snare out there for cross sticking and rim shots. Plus it's basically plug and play. The Mimic Pro is great but you really have to work to get it dialed in depending on the triggers. Both setups work great we have had them side by side at the shop for years now.
I think the biggest differences in here were the sounds (win for Mimic) and the positional sensing (win for Roland). Of course, I think we all wish for positional sensing in the Mimic. Not sure if we will ever see it due to the Roland lawyers, but it would be amazing. I actually still didn't really get the jist of the DIGITAL part of the Roland snare. I've seen many reviews of this and the Ride (and now the digital hi-hat) and I have yet to see what makes the digital version actually better - only theoretically because I feel like whatever differences it would make are lost due to the Roland module sounds. Thanks for the video - I'm sure it took a ton of work to produce.
The gist is you can taper the stick on the rim shots like an acoustic and more stick on the rim changes the sound, very realistic. When we get digital toms look out, maybe no more machine gun. Once Roland gets sounds like mimic and 2 box and old ddrum it's game over.
Video is quite confusing because at 04:02 it says: "TD-50 - No hotspot, positional sensing".
I was like... "uuhh!?" As you said, Roland wins on the positional sensing, and it is their main selling point. Plus I use it all the time on my PD140DS.
@@pmdci What is it that's confused you about that bit?
@fartpoobox ohyeah If Roland does have patents on it other companies can only provide positional sensing by another technical approach (which does not infringe the technology claimed in the patent).
The Snares sounds of the Td50 and td50X they are far superior to those of the Mimic pro, definition, dynamic range between edge, now, the sound and dynamic degradation towards the edge of the td50 also defines a lot in favor of Roland and finally if we are only in this instrument (Snare) inside Of the module options, Roland is superior in all aspects and possibilities. for me the only one superior in Mimic and for a minimal difference are mostly crashes, because Hihat and Ride, Roland wins again in his td27 and td50 and td50X lines.
Hey Luke !!!
I'd love to see more comparisons like this !!!
There's not too many on UA-cam.
Like really detailed throughout different companies.
Especially the digital 3 Roland has VS Yamaha, or Fnote or any company that may be up to snuff.
Just like you did in this video !!!
Loved it !
Just putting my 2 cents in...lol
Thanks !
:-)
Man lovin your channel! 🙌 You are attacking what most are trying to wrap their heads around instead of, " here is my top 5 kits and why". Excellent channel and work. Keep it up! 🙌
Luke, after watching many of your videos I opted purchasing the full digital upgrade from drum-tec. You have been the most detailed of all the main e-drum experts, but all of you are of the same consensus: Roland digital snare drum, Roland digital hi hats, Roland digital ride--are the best out there presently. Thank you for your expert explanations and opinions over the years.
Thank you for the kind words! I hope you enjoy your upgrade pack, be sure to drop a comment when you've used them!
As usual, top notch content, Luke!
My take: imagine if the Pearl Mimic Pro will have the positional sensing, it'll be a blast. The sound off from that Mimic is amazing!
Thank you! Yeah, if the Mimic did positional sensing, it would be awesome! I think they could do it now if they wanted as I believe Roland's patent ran out, but whether they'd want to or if it would be easy to do with the samples is another matter.
Just bought a used 50 and a new140DS. All should be in by Friday, and all because of this video. I’m gonna pick up Luke’s 50 packs once I add the X upgrade, but, when I listened with my eyes closed, I totally forgot this was a Roland module. The mimic was very obviously software, but, something about the overtones and ringing decay on that TD50 snare was just a selling point.
Dont know why are some Drummers that think Mimic is BETTER than td50, or td50X, Mimic is great module, but Roland is far Way best in everything…
I believe the Mimic sounds better. It comes with a built-in VST, unlike the TD-50. Although you can enhance the TD-50 by adjusting its settings, it’s a challenging process and still may not achieve the sound quality of the Mimic Pro.
I understand you may not agree since opinions on Roland drum sounds don’t seem to be unanimous.
Other than the sounds, the TD-50 or even the TD-27 are better than the Mimic Pro.
Could you one day do a video on using edrum splitters? Tips, tricks, dos, and don'ts? I think you'd provide some good insight on it.
Fortunately enough, it's on my to-do list! Due to the delays at the moment, it might be a little while before I get to it but I definitely want to!
Thanks for doing this. I would want the positional sensing for the ghost notes for sure after hearing that. Currently I am looking at buying superior drummer 3 because it has the 3 zone positional sensing apparently. It seems to me that the ultimate would be superior drummer 3 in the form of a module, so that you wouldn't need a mac book to run it.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, the positional sensing worked nicely with an eDRUMin on Superior Drummer 2, I imagine it's even better with SD3. And yeah, I think a lot of people would love to see a Mimic-like module with Superior Drummer sounds in it!
Thank you for the demonstration sir. It’s always nice to have a visual.
Excellent video as always
Hello, thanks! But Mimic has a more "live" sound, you can hear it both in the general balance and in the rhythmic part. It sounds more and more organic. This is clearly audible at 7.28 and 7.31. I do not see anything critical in the absence of such a spread and "buzz" of the snare drum. Which in the general mix only adds dirt. Roland's drum toms are especially famous for this. I don't understand why they make such a sustain, which blurs the sound and gets dirty. For example, even the toms of the younger ATV model (and the sound drags on for a long time, with overtones) are not so dirty, the overtones are smoothed (absorbed), as in live toms. This is just a personal opinion.
excellent review! Checked so many - that one settled the issue for me
Awesome video and great research!
I'd be interested in seeing a comparison between the Roland Digital snare and the Roland analog snare, both with positional sensing etc.
I have some items on the way which might make this a reality in the future!
+1
I was looking forward to this video because you didn't have a video on the playability of the digital snare. Excellent as always. There is one more difference, the latency will be lower with the roland. Not just the module but the pad as well. Side mounted triggers will have a bit more latency. That's one thing I like about roland is they feel so immediate and snappy because the latency is close to playing an acoustic snare.
Pretty in awe with the TD-50 here, wow!
The PS Feature is the most missing thing in my mimic. I had a TD50 before and won’t go back but the digital pads and those tiny bit of more expressions is nice to have. The additional snare samples are already in the mimic but no way to trigger them...😩
100% agreed! If it were enabled, it would increase playability so much.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop We have it NOW!
Pretty equal. As such, it comes down to sounds.
Yeah, pretty much, other than the positional sensing (arguably a sound thing, I guess). The digital snare still pips it on organic response for me, but it's close if you can get good triggering from your analogue pad. Cheers!
Yes, would love to see TD 30 versus TD 50 digital pads!!
Unfortunately I don't have a TD-30 so wouldn't be able to do this :(
@@TheeDrumWorkshop I suppose an analog snare pad on the TD 50 would show similar results.
I use a BT-1 for my side stick with my digital snare. It works great.
How come you don't just use the side stick function of the digital snare?
@@TheeDrumWorkshop To get the proper rim shot I need their is too much cross talk when I use the side stick.. So with the bt-1 handling the side stick my rim shots come out decent.
If I didn't hear the mimic right next to it, I'd say the Roland sounds convincingly good, based on how full this articulation is. Certainly, compared the previous generations, we're in a very good place with both of these. Thank you for your video. I wonder how the TD-27 compares when using the digi pads.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Roland in isolation sounds good, especially (as you say) due to the expressive capability. The Mimic has such a warm acoustic punch that it's hard not to love it (in my opinion). The TD-27 is very similar to the TD-50, as far as the snare and ride articulations go, though the sounds aren't quite the same.
Great video dude. I think for consistency the mimic pad would be the go IF the player positions vary on where the stick is hit. However, Roland wins... but that's a great comparison video. 👏👏👏
Up til now I never realised the Mimic doesn't do positional sensing at all. At that price point that would be a no-go for me.
Great Playing Luke. The digital Snare from Roland really is a great piece of Tech. That you can cover all the bases without having to adjust anything on the module is really remarkable (except brushes). I am just over a year as an Edrummer and Love the direction the major players(C'mon Yamaha get with it) are going by giving us acoustic looks and feels/responses. I truly feel there is nothing I that I realistically play on a acoustic kit that my ekit can 't do as well. Bottom line if you are thinking of getting the digital snare I highly recommend it and it is worth the hype.
Thanks! Yeah, it really doesn't take a lot of tweaking compared to other pads, which is great. I agree with the acoustic-like playability - even if you aren't after acoustic-style sounds (I'm not always), being able to use the same articulations either way is a big bonus. Still my favourite pad, despite being able to get similar functionality from other setups.
Fantastically methodical and detailed review as always Luke.
I noticed you've used the 3 ply 'real feel' head with the Halo trigger, does the Roland use a 3 ply?
Currently building my own AtoE and I'm setting up the Halo triggers, for the snare as well. I'm hoping I get enough dynamics and articulation for my style (rock covers), so it saves me 600 quid.
Thank you 🙏 The Roland digital snare comes with a 3 ply head as stock, as does the PDA140F floor tom that comes with the VAD kits. All other Roland pads come with a 2 ply head.
I personally have a drum-tec Real Feel on my digital snare, but that's because I managed to damage my stock head and it developed a hole. It was cheaper to replace it with a drum-tec head than purchase a replacement Roland 3 ply.
Both Modules are the best TODAY…
But testing, comparing and seeing parameters in both, I think Snares sounds of the Td50 and td50X they are far superior to those of the Mimic pro, definition, dynamic range between edge, now, the sound and dynamic degradation towards the edge of the td50 also defines a lot in favor of Roland and finally if we are only in this instrument (Snare) inside Of the module options, Roland is superior in all aspects and possibilities. for me the only one superior in Mimic and for a minimal difference are mostly crashes, because Hihat and Ride, Roland wins again in his td27 and td50 and td50X lines
check out Diamond drums and Dave's 3D printed ring mount multi triggers!
So all sounds we hear are the td-50 brain? No mics or real drum sounds here? They all sound fantastic if these are from the td-50!
Whenever it says "TD-50" on the screen, that's sound from the TD-50 module. If it says "Mimic" on the screen, that's sound from the Pearl Mimic Pro module. No acoustic drums at all in this video!
I have a digital snare. It's great but I don't know how much difference I can truly tell in terms of sensitivity. The best things about it is that it's Roland quality, is the same size as an acoustic snare and has the cross stick feature. Those benefits are possibly outweighed by the fact that it only works with two modules.
Yeah, I can understand that. It's built like a tank (though I personally did have a wire go on one of the piezos once, fortunately it was an easy fix and can pretty much happen to any pad). And yeah, if you've got a Roland that's compatible with it, it's worth getting for sure.
This video is incredibly helpful in looking and learning about the best modules. Well done. I rip on some of your other vids and 65 drums because the playing is not always good and often hurts the demonstration. This was perfectly done. Showing the playability not trying to be a chops master. Great job.
They dont sell the drone trigger anymore?
What e-drum setup would you recommend in the 3000 €$£ price range? I’ve been looking at roland td-27kv2 but would like a more accoustic looking set or if there is something with more bang for the buck. Cheers!
with addictive drums 2 and pd 140ds, i cant tune rimshot and cross stick in a same way. help, please
What soundpack is this for the snare it's so good
Great video! Which snare sample do you use in the Mimic Pro?
This pad obviously sounds great and if you gave me one I would take it and be very happy. The problem I have (I'm probably not alone here), in order to get the digital snare I would need a module upgrade as well. I currently have the alesis strike module on a A2E converted kit with mostly roland stuff on it. So in order for this to work properly I would have to get either the TD27 or the TD50 Module. So for one pad that is quite an investment (2 pads if I were to get the ride). I have been entertaining possibly getting a VAD kit recently but since I have a full sized kit already, I'm not sure if its worth the cost. My biggest issue though is that the TD 50 is getting old now so I keep thinking within a year or 2 they may release something with more digital pads .... maybe? Of course, an all digital pad Roland kit would probably be the same price as a Tesla so who knows if i will want to invest that. I do wonder if this has a patent or if you will see some other companies bring in some digital pads soon.
Thank you so much for the video on this !!!
I just got the TD 27 and I'm waiting for the Roland digital snare to come in the mail in a week.
I hope the 27 sounds at least half decent.
Any thoughts on it ?
The 27 vs the 50 as far as the digital snare goes ?
And is it worth getting the digital hi hats and ride cymbol too ?
Thanks !
Have a great day !!!
:-)
If you did get the Fnote set, and happened to play the Roland digital 3 at a store or something, let me know what you thought.
I'm curious.
It'd be nice if more people did hardware comparisons.
Like super detailed ones.
I guess it would probably just favor Roland, but I'd still like to see it.
LOL
:-)
How are you connecting the Roland bar trigger? Are you using a cable splitter for the modules snare input, or does the bt1 have its own dedicated input?
It's connected to its own input, one of the AUX inputs.
Despite being a single zone trigger, the BT-1 is best used with a stereo input and cable as it has built-in cross-talk suppression (it uses a switch like a cymbal's edge zone to determine what is an intended hit vs vibration from another source). If you used it on a split input when it's attached to the side of a drum, you'd get unwanted triggers on the BT-1 from the vibration of hitting the drum pad.
Where are the rim sensors placed on the Drone Trigger system? Underneath the dampening foams or is it one sensor under the main trigger? Also, im a bit confused about how a module differentiate rim click and cross stick sounds from an analog pad. Can the td-17 do that? I have a td-4 (lol) and all it does is to play rim click and rim shots when the rim is hit hard but in your demonstration you play rim shots at the same velocity as you play rim clicks, and then you can play a cross stick too, yet the mimic produces the intended sound. You get 4 articulations velocity idependent on an analog pad. Please explain. I have a td-17 on the way. Great video as always.
Edit: Ok, i completely missed the BT-1 pad responsible for the cross stick, but how can you play hard rim click without triggering a rim shot?
The rim sensor on the DRONE is just attached to the shell, I put it near the 6 o'clock position. It sits in a little plastic enclosure but still seems to be super sensitive. As you said in your edit, the BT-1 is handling cross-stick on another input.
The Mimic has a "cross stick threshold" setting on both the head and the rim zones. When you get the balance of these settings right, it can dial in a cross-stick that is only triggered when your stick hits that threshold on both the head and the rim piezos at the same time. This isn't possible on the TD-17, from what I remember, because Roland's method relies on rim positional sensing. Other Roland modules like the 50 and 27 are able to do it but the 17 doesn't support PS in any way. I don't know exactly how it works but I assume it might be similarly to the Mimic, though without the same level of detailed user control.
awesome Vid!
I am trying to use Pearl Tru Trac snare with TD50X what settings should I be using?
Great video Luke! Hey I have a Mimic Pro and a Drumtec Snare but aren’t really good at setting up pads in general. Would you mind sharing you snare pad settings on the Mimic?
I would greatly appreciate it!
The way the Mimic Pro pad setup works his setting will not mean anything to you. Kind of surprised the boys in Germany didn't give you any instructions.
@@Edrumcenter they don’t have any instructions for the Mimic, they do have recommended settings for Roland modules though
Yeah, unfortunately sharing my settings won't really help. The way I've dialled the DRONE trigger in is different to other pads I've used.
I might have to look into doing a Mimic pad setup video as it seems a lot of people struggle with it.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop You should!
Would you mind doing a video of your digital snare settings? I cannot get my snare to have good sounding rimshot sounds.
Do you mean the instrument settings or pad settings? The pad settings won't affect the sounds themselves, just how the pad plays them. For the instruments, that kit is probably going to end up as part of a preset pack for my store. But typically, I end up layering snare sounds most of the time. This is a combination of the Maple Oil Finish snare (that gives it the ringing overtones) and the Walnut Popper on the sub layer (that gives the crack on the rimshots).
@@TheeDrumWorkshop yeah more of a how to get good snare sounds. I have my kit dialed in really well except for the snare rimshots.
Love this kind of stuff!! It may be “sac religious” but I get great response and side stick out my Yamaha xp120SD. ;)
So a TD50 (or 27) with an analogue snare pad, with positional sensing (like a PDX100), & a BT1 (if you want something other than a 14" snare)?
Yeah, you could do that and probably get pretty good results. There will pretty much always be some kind of centre hot spot though which makes it not quite as good as the digital snare. I'd have to get a good centre trigger and test it to be sure though.
Thanks for the vid! So do you prefer the RealFeel on the Roland Digital snare over the Roland head that came on it?
Thanks for watching! From what I can remember, the Roland 3 ply head feels very similar to the Real Feel. Unfortunately, I managed to snag the original head on something when transporting my kit for a gig and it ended up tearing. The replacement was more expensive than a Real Feel and I wanted to try one anyway, very happy with it.
Great information I have The TD50kv2 working on my settings how do you inhance or decrease the ring tones out at the edge
I had a td30 and now a 502kv I gather the 30 is a better module
Thanks! That would generally be the overtone control. It will affect both the centre and edge, but some sounds will have less overtone in the centre anyway so the edge feels much more ringy. The TD-50X doesn't really have any sounds that are quite as wild as the ones I've shown off in this video (using the original TD-50 software). They've tamed the overtones of some of the sounds a bit.
Positional sensing also gives a more real snare sound imo. Not as machine gunny. My td10exp has it.
Yeah, I agree. I think PS makes a massive difference with Roland sounds especially, but it worked well with SD2 when I tried out the eDRUMin too so would love to see it on as many modules as possible!
Great comparison man, but do you get a rimsound (not the rimclick) and a rimshot both ad once on the roland pds140? Or is it a different setting?
Yeah, you can have them both without having to change settings as long as the positional sensing is active on the rim zone. If the PS is turned off for the rim, you'll only get the rimshot. That's the case with a centre cone analog pad with PS enabled too, it uses PS to distinguish between hitting just the rim and hitting the head and rim together for a rimshot. Though this is only the case for sounds that support it (just the acoustic-style sounds).
@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanks for the reply. I have a roland td27 but i didnt get both sounds working at the same time. Well for most part i use it with SD3
Ahh, ok. So with a VST it might not work correctly because it uses the positional sensing to dictate it. So it would need to be set up within SD3 to work that way. It doesn't send a unique MIDI note for that articulation, it uses the CC16 control change to dictate PS information alongside the rim MIDI note. I've not really delved into that side of things with a VST (and don't have SD3 myself) so I can't really say whether it's possible to get it working properly that way or not. It totally might be as I know SD is more flexible than some for eDrums, but I just don't know for sure.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Well also with the roland sounds i didnt get it to work but i look in to it. And yes SD3 works superb with edrums
Weird. I'll have to check into it on the 27 but pretty sure I've been getting it!
Do u have a video on how to get your drum to sound like that ?
Which module? One the TD-50, that was a preset that I threw together for this and a couple of other videos. I have some videos about EQ, Transients and Instrument Layering on Roland modules that could get you started there. I'll be tackling Compression, Ambience and other features eventually. On the Mimic, that kit is a slightly tweaked version of the Prl Popper kit that is available on my store :)
@@TheeDrumWorkshop thank you man appreciate the help yeah I was talking about the td50 much help thank you keep up the great work 👍
Also, what about eDrumin vs digital pad?
I only borrowed the eDRUMin so I wasn't able to do a comparison with it as it has gone back to its owner! Also, the centre trigger point would still stand - I don't have a reliable one and the Jobeky triggers I borrowed for the eDRUMin video wouldn't be up to scratch for the comparison as it was too hot. Maybe when I get my own! However, the results I got out of the DRONE trigger with it were at least as good as with the Mimic!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop I understand. Maybe an idea for a future video because some people on the forums seem to think there is no point to the digital pads as the edrumin can do what the digital pads do (no hotspot, PS etc.). I have never played either of them so I'm curious about that. edruming however needs a lot of scan time, up to 3ms for hot spot suppression to work.
Can I use the SPD-SX with the PD-140DS?
No, it's not compatible. There wouldn't be much use for the features of the PD-140DS anyway with the SPD-SX.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanks so much for the reply