This is How Roland Drums COULD Sound With Better Samples
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Roland VDrums users seem to hate the onboard sounds, so I decided to find out how Roland TD-50X drum module could sound with different samples.
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Compatible with
► Roland TD-50X, TD-50, TD-27, TD-17, SPD-SX, SPD-S, TM-6 PRO, TM-2, TM-1* & RT-MicS*
► Alesis Strike Module (instrument files included), Strike Multipad
► dbdrums nPad, G4M DD90 Digipad and HXW PD-705
► Yamaha DTX-PROX, DTX-PRO, DTX-Multi 12, EAD10
► Pearl Mimic Pro
► Steven Slate Trigger 2 (.tci files included)
► Gear4Music DD90 Digipad
► dbdrums nPad
► ddrum NIO Percussion Pad
► HXW Avatar PD-705
► Millennium NonaPad
► Ashley DME 705
& any module that supports 44.1kHz, 16-bit stereo .wav samples with a layering function
*TM-1 & RT-MicS may require additional software to load samples
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I had no idea this was possible on the TD50X, really cool to see! It's interesting to learn how much of the "roland sound" really comes down to their virtual mic system and reverb settings. Seems like that's where a good chunk of that artificial edge seems to come from.
@65Drums Of course you had to be here :)
Yeah, totally. Everything seems to have a really scooped midrange, from the samples to the effects. You rarely seem to get any of that "solid" 1-2KHz grit that makes acoustic drums/samples feel the way they do and things can feel a bit hyped and hollow at the same time. Interested to see what's next - if the modelling or ambience gets better in that area, it could be convincing!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop I think ambience was surprisingly decent for what it is. I was quite surprised, I always thought the reverbs and overhead/ambience engines were subpar in Rolands, but they are not that horrible.
What I find horrible, are the compressors and EQs. They're truly atrocious! It totally feels like if you turn them off, the sound would improve drastically. On top of this, they are not configurable enough (like, the EQ barely has a few frequencies that it can be set to, also I imagine the compressor suffers from the same... And it's not even a good algorithm, soundwise.)
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Just like to say thanks to the both of you for making such great content. :)
I knew you could use the TD50 (and a few other modules before it) as an audio interface, but the extent of which, plus the ability to use the TD50s internal room modelling, processing and effects, as well as assigning the faders to kit pieces of a VST that's being streamed into the module was something I never knew. That's seriously awesome. And like you say, the best application for this is if you find effects and processing clogging down your laptop. Strip all that off to raw sounds and kill room mics (if you can) and voila, you could then reduce the buffer to improve on that all important "LATENCY" thing people speak of..
You da man Luke, this is why you picked a great name for the channel, THE EDRUM WORKSHOP MOFOS...
(okay I added that last bit)
I like the addition! Haha! Thanks Steve!
Luke your channel is still rocking after all these years. Your knowledge and playing ability is second to none when it comes to in depth edrum content. The way you tweaked your samples to sound the way they sound is highly competitive with the drum software that’s out there. I have the td27 I actually do some recording with Roland samples especially the percussion sounds. I also use Slate drums but I really want to checkout your sample packs. I worry that I’ll somehow screw it up trying to upload to my module. Nonetheless keep up the great work you’re providing for the edrum and recording community.
Thank you 🙏 I wouldn't worry too much about messing up your module when installing kits. If you create a backup of the module to your SD card before doing anything else, you'll always have that to revert to if anything does go wrong and you can just try again from there. Typically speaking though, it's a pretty simple process to add the kits!
Do you have any plans to create a tutorial on the details of how to make this work? Would be fun to try this out.
I could be persuaded! It might not be one of the next videos but I'll keep it in mind!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop , I would appreciate it if you could!!!.....Thanks!!!
what do you need to know ?
@@venrieshow to connect everything to make it work… got a TD50X, MacBook Pro, SD3 and an audio interface. Tried a few options but couldn’t get it to work…
Damn this video is kinda mind blowing, you make me realise how powerful the TD50X truly is! I still struggle with some popping and crackling when I have my TD50X simply connected to my (powerful) windows laptop while just listening to spotify. Every few mins it will pop/crackle then lag knocking a song out of time. No VST, nothing else running. Laptop resources barely used etc. Just by having a passive USB connection between the 2 (allows me to sound audio from Laptop to Module as well as watch UA-cam videos while practicing boring rudiments lol).
This is a very interesting video, and quite inventive in terms of workaround, I'll admit. But we all know what the fact of the matter here is: Roland sells kits for 7 grand and they sound like a cheap Casio synth. It's actually quite fantastic to realize that their incredible build quality must account for their success, apparently above the drum sounds themselves.
I agree that their reputation for being solid has persisted for as long as I can remember!
That's kind of sad actually. I dare to say that most Roland e-drummers (myself included) got into this hoping they would be a virtual acoustic drum replacement for use in the numerous situations which would benefit from lower volume (churches, small clubs, etc). How much better would things be if Roland poured more R&D into the actual samples, borrowing from the direction already pioneered by Toontrack, Get Good Drums, etc?
Since I want to learn how to play drums better but I used to have no choice then to use ekits I really really appreciated what you did on this channel for the past year or so. I decided to go with low volume heads and cymbals ona real drum and I’m so much happier now. No me mind games playing catch up with a glorified synthetizer that plays or doesn’t play sounds somebody else made.
Your no bs approach really demystified fancier e kits for me and helped me make my decision so much easier. Thanks very much!!
The best tip I got for a live setup is to turn down the ambiance on the module entirely. Also add a wedge monitor behind the kit and send stereo to the PA. Sounds much better using the natural room ambience.
Very informative, and another thank you for your time making these videos. Your friend from the Jawshop!
Thanks Paul!
Great video. I enjoy hearing all of these great sounds combined with your drumming style. So in the pocket! Very nice!
Thank you 🙏
This is Super dope! awesome vid! This is part of the reason why I use Room IRs when mixing the Roland kit live!
Interesting! I typically didn't use much ambience back when I used my TD-50 live. What sort of IRs do you tend to go with?
The kit at 9:27 sounds pretty good 👍
I recently got the VAD 307 with td 17 Module and found that the room/mic sounds are not very good imo. I also tend to prefer a more dry sound, especially for playing live at every room will add its own ambience/reverb.
I like roland sounds, but like most modules, they need some tweaking!
Absolutely agree that dry sounds usually work best for live use!
Okay this is a neat feature that I didn't know the Roland TD50 had.
Really great video as always Luke. 2 quick questions somewhat unrelated to the vide: 1. you have an enviable collection of modules in your arsenal - do you think you'll add any of the offerings from Efnote to your collection? 2. Interesting to see the Strada Prime appear again in this video. Do you plan to do a deep dive on this kit/module or is the 'Week One with the Alesis Strata Prime' video all you think you'll do? Cheers!
Hey. Thank you! Apologies for the long wait.
1) I'm hoping to at some point but don't currently have the budget
2) The footage of the Prime from this video is re-used from the last one, not new footage. I routed the audio out from a MIDI capture (was just easier to do for the sake of one clip). I do plan on revisiting the Strata Prime, but I don't have an definitive plans about when that will be. Ideally once I've got some of the problems resolved and maybe if an update adds some of the features I'd like to see. But obviously if that doesn't happen I could still do an update video expressing my opinion over time. I've not actually had the chance to use it as much as I'd have liked to be honest! I'm sure I will at some point.
Great video, dude. A lot of different kit setups I see 😅That big one must be new to your collection, isnt it?
It is going to be interesting what the future approach to edrum sounds/samples will look like!
As of now, i think there is no other real choice besides VST triggering. (Btw some people say i should do midi out instead of usb, apparently better audio protocol? i use the TD27 and yes i have an audio interface scarlett 2i2!)
And are you working on any new sound packs?
Always enjoy your edrum content, only very few people go as deep with that stuff like you do!
Oh wow, definitely using this holy... my issue with VSTs is that, I need to use the standalone mixing features of the VST... then get more latency, with this it might actually just be better to use the Roland mixing stuff
Hello sir I think it would be nice if Roland could work with easy drummer Superior drummer to get some more realistic drum sounds Love from Mik Roy from Denmark ❤️😘
Can someone please tell me how to make this work? I got a TD50X, a Macbook Pro, a Focusrite Scarlet 4i4 and tried several options to connect, but can't get it to work...
Did you also try the other way around, using (good) "dry" Roland module sounds mixed with only OH and/or room mics from VSTi like SD3/EZD3, GGD, Slate Drums etc.? You can use the vendor mode for this, too. Sounds even better in my opinion. Using relatively loud OH and room mics from VST paired with Rolands internal can sound huge. Depending on the kits, some snare/tom tuning/matching can be neccessary. ✌
I haven't tried this, no. I would have thought there would be potential phase issues blending the samples together like that (unlike the "modelled" OH/Room being DSP on top of the original samples). But it's good to know it's worked well for you, worth experimenting with at some point!
Thx for this video....👍
Just need another 100 user kits now to cater for all this, lol
Hey I have a quick question, can you easily change out a module? I have a donner e-kit and I am wondering if I could get the Alesis commander drum module? Would it work?
Does anyone know if you can do this with a TD-27 module? That's what I have. I want to maximize what I can get out of that module because I likely won't upgrade for a couple years. Any help is very much appreciated.
No, it's not possible with the TD-27 module. As I said in the video, only the TD-50X can do it (not even the original TD-50 software could).
It still begs the question why Roland still uses samples when they could go full synthesis on drums like MODO Drum does. That would allow lower latency and better control over the sound. It always seems Roland is charging more for the same module technology from 20 years ago.
cool!
This is all great but after spending $6000 Australia Roland Boss wants us to shell out for the TD50x series as well to get any decent drums, hint hint Roland, great news😂❤
any more TD17 custom sample kits coming?
I have plans for some, yes!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop😀
I saw a video years ago with Craig Blundell who works with Roland and a lot of the sounds are generated in really creatives ways from an audio engineering pov.
But to all us users that want realistically sounds, it’s completely pointless. To give an example instead of recording a real bass drum.
He said sampled hitting a pillow from a sofa/couch in the studio and turned this into a kick with a heavy thud.
Really cool from a sound engineering pov, but it just sounds terrible for any application other than EDM.
Can someone confirm the TD-30 as compatible with these samples? Manual states USB flash drive can handle WAV at 44.1 kHz, Bit rates 8, 16, 24-bit
The TD-30 cannot import any samples or use them onboard. I believe those formats are for songs in the song player to play along to. It also doesn't have this feature, as far as I'm aware. As stated in the video, only the TD-50X has this specific feature as far as I know.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Thank you for clarifying. Other than unable to get good HH response to match the default TD-30, going with SD3 is a huge improvement in sounds when using the Roland kit.
This might be totally unrelated. I have a Roland FA-06 which I don't really like the sound especially the SUPERNATURAL drums ... . It sounds kinda too sterilized to me. However one time I get this to a gig (where I let someone else use it, because I play guitar on that gig), that sound make much sense as it cuts through everything without any EQ at all. This includes the ugly SUPERNATURAL drums.
Personally I think Roland know how people hate their instruments sounds, epecially one supposed to mimic real instruments (sample, modelling, etc.). However I think they possition thier product as a live gig instruments where people can plugs and play loud. Even their GT-1000 guitar effects processor is designed to this concept I think.
But again using that sound in recording situation is kinda feel disconnected. I ended up using VST instruments instead. It's more flexible too.
It's definitely relevant! I think the "Supernatural" sounds were the TD-30 generation's name/descriptor and they're quite similar to the 50X's sounds in some ways. I know what you mean about the sounds just working well live - it seems that the sounds are scooped in just the right way so that things don't sound too harsh or fatiguing at high volumes through a PA system.
I think all the snares on the td50 sound really plasticky & fake
The Solid Shell, Aluminum Alloy, and Walnut Popper are the best and if you play with their tuning, snare wire Type, Transient parameters, and layering them with other snares you get some really realistic sounds from them.
For how much you pay for a Roland, you get jipped on the audio quality. Yamaha has far better drum audio samples.
Hi Luke! You're definitely a Must Watch UA-cam edrum content creator.
It's really cool stuff.
But actually, my mind was spinning...
Huh... why? But then you said.... "If you're running a VST...." Phew...
I mean, not every drummer is a computer freak, like me.
I love the VST possibilities.
And it's really a shame that during these days there are almost no Trigger2MIDI interfaces available.
The companies should provide modules with and without sounds...
I was really, really happy when I discovered Rob and his Audiofront eDRUMin interfaces.
Do you still use it?
I don't use my eDRUMin as much as I really ought to! I mostly test things out on it when I review pads/triggers. I did set it up with all of my analogue pads at one point and then USB hosted the TD-50X so that the MIDI from all of it could be merged together (using the MIDI cross-talk cancellation too). The plan was to create MIDI maps to switch between so I didn't need to swap cables to play each module, I could just swap to the right map and go with only a MIDI cable. I ended up doing some other things and never got round to finishing that off. Probably should!
I tried this with my TD50. I had latency when using Superior 3. How low is the latency with your TD50x. I may upgrade my module if this improves the latency.
This exact routing method doesn't exist on the original TD-50, only the TD-50X. However I don't think upgrading is likely to affect potential latency when using the module with VSTs, though. If you go into the driver settings for the TD-50, that's where you can adjust the buffer. If you can get the buffer down as much as possible, that might help. I think I've had mine on a buffer of 48 samples with reasonable stability or 64 samples with much better stability.
I'm currently using my DWe kit, DWe Hub and TD-50X module in a live setting. I'm using this setup to be able to use the direct outs on the TD-50X module. If I connect my laptop (which has the DW Soundworks program) to my TD50-X module via the USB connection, will the sounds from the laptop go to the direct outs on the TD-50X module? If this works, this will eliminate using an audio interface with my laptop..........Thanks!!
If you enable the Loopback mode instead of Pad Direct In (it's the next option along), that should give you all of this plus the ability to send the audio out of the direct outputs! The only issue with Loopback is if you want to record the sounds, there's a chance of it creating a feedback loop which can result in loud, repeated sounds. If you're just using it live and not recording to a DAW, I don't *think* you should have any issues. I can see my PC audio on the Direct Out Monitor in the module when I enable Loopback.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop , I'm going to give it a try! I'll let you know!!!
Oh, and you'll need to route the direct mics into the correct channels and possibly disable them in master channel too!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Ok! Thanks! I normally run my drums direct outs (dry-no effects) to FOH. I use my ambience fader on the module to add effects to my drums. The faders are set to master left/right outs. I send the master outs to my mixing board that I plug my IEM's into.
with this setup can u use roland digital cymbals with the DWe drums
With the announcement of the V-71, I can't wait to hear what you cook up with that module and the improved sounds 👀
Hey Luke, do you think it would be possible to use the new Roland SPD-SX Pro as your main drum module if say a person also had a eDrumin10 to use with it? Seems like it is around the price of TD-27 module and might be more versatile?
Very cool. I must try ASAP!!! Wedding and concert. I'll give you my view.;)
Another great video!
I love my td27 for the pads and feel but....if if they don't update their libraries in the next 4-5 years it will probably be my last roland kit. I imagine by that time someone else will have gotten a similar ride/hh/snare feel with a better sample library. Who knows though, the e-drum world moves really slow at times.
I'm watching your e drum cleaning video now.
Pro tip, buy microfiber tea towels. Those things are like magic dryers. lol
just plugged yesterday my TD-07 with Superior Drummer .... and it's ssssssoooooo much better. First of all I have the feeling to be better. It get better sensibility, on the cymbals but also on the snare. When I unplug SDrummer, the impression to use totally synthetic sounds is even higher.
You have to manage the latency : I can reduce it to around around 3.5-4 ms (using a windows 11 laptop). I've read that the USB output latency of the TD07 is around 1-1.5ms and the audio output latency is around 2.5ms (using ASIO with USB output). I cannot get below with other combination. More than 5ms for ouptut latency is an issue.
The sound is sent back to USB to the module. The latency is higher if I plug a headset on the PC, or the speakers.
Best Edrum channel on the net.
The modelled sounds are absolutely terrible.
Now I understand why I hate them.
Roland really needs sort this out or a competitor will come along and take the market.
So many users are moving over to VSTs to get much more realistic sounds. But it comes with a lot of expense and headache to learn.
Nearly every single day on the drum Reddit there is a post asking for help to get a VST working.
The opportunity for all e-drum companies to fulfil this key customer need and do it in a way that has the least friction and pain points is going to potentially become a leader in the space.
Especially if they can couple that with the reliability Roland hardware has.
We can hope that the Roland TD-71 will do exactly this.
Agreed 100%, on top of that a laptop + audio interface (if needed) occupies a lot more space
Hey Luke or anyone else I was wondering about some of the kits I bought from you Luke How would I go about say using the Toms from like the no rush, snake and arrows but put those with the the Don snare and so on mixing pieces from kits to make one kit is this possible in the TD 50 X I’m sorry if this is a stupid question, but could anyone direct me to a tutorial as to how to do this? I don’t see anything in the book Thank you
Hey! This is totally possible and I have a tutorial video about it that you can watch here - ua-cam.com/video/1b4faWD-DWY/v-deo.html
I recommend making a backup first then making a copy of whichever kit you want as the "base" of the kit first, just to make sure no accidents happen!
Thank you for the reply. I will get on that tutorial. I appreciate it.
I am desperate to figure out how to get more wash and less attack on my digital ride!! On an acoustic ride, wash takes over rather quickly and adds ambience to a performance as opposed to the time keeping nature of attack.
What module do you have?
Well done Luke. Your insights and delivery of the information are always valuable. I use your samples in my td-50x and now I have more options that aren't dependent on how much memory is in the module. 🤯
I agree Roland sounds are home made heavily processed how would samples work with the Pearl Mimic Pro
I always thought they made great reverbs and that obviously the room and overheads are just digital reverb.
A tutorial for multiout drums to real audio tracks would be awesome 😎
would never ever buy a TD50... its a waste of money. Just get a 25,27 or 30 and maybe add better cymbal pads (ATV) and then trigger Superior Drummer 3. Did it for years.. blows any Roland out of the water.. or rather nukes them out of the water.
do you use a particular hardware to manage latency ? on my side I've been able to find a correct setup, but it's less reactive than the direct rendering from the Roland Module. Also I'm struggling to get the hihat splash working well.
Hey Luke. Always love your content. Just curious if you use or would use your e-kit when you tour with your band? With those samples you demonstrated I can see it sounding just as good as an acoustic kit in a live situation. Of course the sound system will be a major factor for good sound output.
Hey. I did use my TD-50 live for a good few years with one band - a party/cover band called BoomBox. In fact, I used an SPD-30 Octapad as the main sound source for a few years before that too! It was in this band that I worked out my favoured method for building kits with added samples which became the template for all of the kits I now sell over on the store. And yes, the sound system definitely makes a big difference when using them live, so we always had an additional drum monitor on stage that would add to the overall sound in venues that were lacking in that area.
I left that band after the COVID lockdowns, so I don't use my full e-kit live anymore. I still play regularly with my other band Sonic Boom Six, but don't have any plans to use my electronic kit for this.
hi luke , great vid, off topic - famous metal kits for MIMIC PRO,, is that ever going to happen ?? , i heard somewhere pearl have stopped making it !!!!! cheers
Thanks! That's still on the to-do list. Unfortunately the list grows all the time 😅 but I'm hoping I can get it out at some point.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop i'd sort of given up hope , but, ok i'll keep checkin ! cheers for the glimmer, keep up the good work, love your videos👍
TD50 is 100% modelled. If you're not satisfied with how the TD50 sounds, you'll never be satisfied. Nothing can touch this beast, playability and nuance is unparalleled. Spend your time playing this beautiful instrument instead of chasing perfection that doesn't exist.
Yep. This sounds way less dynamic. I’d never willingly go from a modelled system to a sample based one
I'd personally disagree, but that's fine. I like the TD-50X myself, but I understand why some people don't like its sounds at all. For many of those people, simply swapping to a VST will solve the problem. But I do also agree that some people are chasing an idea rather than just working with what is available.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop I did a masters thesis using a blind sound comparison of the same song, recorded three ways, all built from the same performance. One of those used the built in sounds of the TD27, another used VSTs. The VST version was only preferred by less than ten percent of listeners.
But then, these were in a mix. A lot of bed room drummers never hear their drums that way
@@wintyrqueen I can totally believe that, yeah. I think that's why there's such a massive difference in opinion about electronic drum sounds - everyone is expecting something different. Some want it to feel or sound like their acoustic kit with volume control, others want the kit to sound "mix ready", some might not even be sure exactly what they want it to sound like but they know when it feels "wrong". I'm sure there are variations I'm missing out. But I think the "feel" is often more important than the exact sound when it comes to playing versus listening.
Sounds like a really interesting thesis, by the way. Thanks for offering up your experience.
The fact it's modelled is exactly why it's not natural. Yamaha all the way with properly RECORDED samples, in real studios. That adds texture you can't get with Roland's modelling and FX.
Not possible with the TD27 v2 ?
Unfortunately not, exclusive to the TD-50X as far as I know.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop doesn't it allow stereo loopback?